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 Posting a reply to post #84596

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84596 No.84596
Ok the one thing that has really disturbed me about the Boiling Rock.(its wasn't a bad episode it was probably one of the best episodes of the season) Why was Suki in a male prison?

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It's war. Crazy shit happens.

christ this thread was on /co/ also.

it's not a male prison, hence the big guy's girlfriend and female guards.


discussion over.

The Fire Nation always seemed remarkably egalitarian.

Are you blind, did you not notice female prisioners/guards?

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It had to be. If you want to sustain a war for 100 years against an enemy 10 times your size, everyone needs to do their bit. Cultural hang-ups are a fatal impediment to a total war economy. Complete dedication to world domination by a small island nation can only suffer intolerance in a single, but crucial, quarter: implaceable racism against everyone else.

I really wish we got to see more 'Ro Zi the Riveters' in Book 3. I think that was a missed opportunity to show a good side to the Fire Nation, even if it also shows it's subsumed all other priorities in favour of the war effort.


It still doesn't make any realistic sense to put a teenage girl in a prison with grown men. For a prison, the Boiling Rock really wasn't that secure (you know, outside the fact that it's surrounded by boiling water).

Here: >>70305

Wasn't there a female guard coming to check on Suki, and Zuko had to fight her to keep her from entering Suki's cell?

Maybe there was a wing just for women, or they had the women guarding them specifically.

Plus, according to the artbook, most of the women and some of the men make up the entirety of the Fire Nation's domestic forces, and the female Firebenders are the ones who train the army, so they aren't pushovers, and I imagine the whole nation has that idea, possibly down to some sort of culture-wide respect.

Avatar is a world where sexual assault doesn't exist. I, for one, am grateful to not have to consider it.


You're right on their world not having sexual assault. I remember being for a second totally scared that Combustion Man was going to rape Katara and Toph.
But then there's Rule #34... :/

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>I remember being for a second totally scared that Combustion Man was going to rape Katara and Toph.

I don't get your reaction image.

Looks like a shocked 8O reaction to me.

It's quite simple really. Our legal system is completely different from the show.

Stop projecting yo.

Well, I'm sure it was worrying for Suki when a guard was apparently trying to put the moves on her until she found out it was Sokka. But most of the females in the Avatar world are tough, so if anyone ever did try to take advantage of them, they'd just end up kicking the guy's (or girl's) ass.

Because you touch yourself at night

Surely someone's written some Suki prison rape.

But seriously, there were women in there too

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It's not a male prison, it's a prison for high-profile political dissenters.

One would think that the whole Boiling Water bit (alongside the remote island part) would mean additional security may have been seen as excessive.

Point. Perhaps they figure any women that gets thrown in there is too risky for ordinary guards to play games with.

Sokka puckered lips dissolved into a slacked jaw when he noticed Suki's reaction. Tears streaming down her face, she hugged her pillow tight and assumed a bent over position. "P-please, just make it quick this time."

There, is that what you wanted, OP!

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>>Tears streaming down her face, she hugged her pillow tight and assumed a bent over position.

I love this face, probably my fave reaction image to come out of Avatar

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Yes, yes it is.

I'm going to write this fan fiction. She kicked her attackers asses the first few times but they team up on her and er will is eventually broken until she's just a submissive plaything.

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And it'll contain diapers.

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Yes, and it will be glorious.

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>>I'm going to write this fan fiction. She kicked her attackers asses the first few times but they team up on her and er will is eventually broken until she's just a submissive plaything.

Ohhh cool. And maybe they donkey punch her too.

This is... bent.

Not to mention uncreative.

I had an idea before the Boiling Rock came out involving all the Kyoshi Warriors being held in a ward with nested cells (the inner lockable from the inside and safe from all unwanted advances) and aphrodisiac incense constantly burning (making it harder and harder to lock the inner doors when the guards stroll through, especially since they are out of reach of each other).

In terms of making a plausably Broken Suki, this works better than what would be unreliable, risky, and require guards willing to risk emasculation by virtue of being one of the first three or for to get her.


You'd have to make sure that none of the warriors could touch themselves either if you're going down that road.

Also disrupt stuff like meditation, etc. so they can't just push away the arousal.

It also wouldn't do to just completely leave it up to them to give in, you need to create a scenario, perhaps a nightly one, in which they are presented an oppertunity to relieve themselves that they can freely decide to take or not. I guess you might have that with the cell-lockings, but it needs to be made very clear what is being offered, rather than leaving it implied. Some...most, probably, would need to feel a little pushed into it.

Also: Aphrodesiacs don't really work that way. The way hentai and other shit portrays the things, you'd think they confused them with heroin or some shit.


True. It'd have to be some drug that does more than make one horny. Something that dulls or fucks over the mind to make sensation more dominant would be optimal, and making a lack of stimulation an almost physically painful thing would be good too.

I doubt this'd be achievable in a gas form though...if so, all the guards'd need to be wearing gas masks. And be sure not to leave the gas constantly on or else they'd probably overdose and die.

On another level, it might be beneficial in other ways to prevent escape if it were to have some addictive qualities to it. Hard to run away when you're going cold-turkey.

Making an account on now.

...damn it, I'm to blame for some of this, aren't I?

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I know there's a reason I saved this. Just replace "films" with "TV series".

Holy shit, I made that sad frog like a month or so ago, I can't believe someone saved it. Small internet.

Yes. Now how are you going to make up for it?

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You're lying it isn't my fault. YOU ARE TEARING ME APART ANONYMOUS!

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What the fuck am I reading.

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About half way through it. I kept true on my diaper promise. She's anally raped so much her anus is stretched out and she loses control of her bowels and is forced to wear one. I won't post it here though, this is my favorite board and I don't want to make it worse than I have already made it.

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Yeah, some psychoactive factor is required otherwise the FN would have a _cranky_ and perhaps _fustrated_ Amazon Brigade locked up rather than a broken one.

You know, I ran through a mental execise of applying the Normal Porn Characterization Trifecta (Rampant Libido, Indifference towards Monogamy, Sameless Bisexuality) to various characters while leaving thier personality otherwise unchanged... and A:tLA (among others) does not really change much in terms of storyline beyond perhaps the romantic subplots. Yes, Nympho!Katara would offer comfort sex to Haru and probably spread for Jet when they first meet, but she will not prostitute herself to pirates for a scroll they stole in the first place and do not even get me started on Zuko.


Honestly, even with all of that I don't really see Suki 'breaking' at any point. Not sure about the other warriors, but even under all that duress I can't see Suki throwing herself against the bars and begging for a fuck.

The worst I can see it being for her is enjoying the sensations when she is 'taken', or simply getting used to being used, offering either poor, token or no resistance as time goes on. So basically she'd not come out of it 'broken', but no doubt with acute self-loathing that'd take years or possibly a whole lifetime of rubbing away. She would, however, still have the excuse of her never TRULY giving into and actively participating in her own rape, unlike with some of the other girls who may have done just that. So there's hope there.


>Yes, Nympho!Katara would offer comfort sex to Haru and probably spread for Jet when they first meet, but she will not prostitute herself to pirates for a scroll they stole in the first place and do not even get me started on Zuko.

Sage, because off topic, but Gunsmoke apparently thought different, which was something I really didn't like about his work. That, and the sheer amount of sex he would draw between her and Sokka was also something I really didn't like.

(Delete and repost because I fucked up the sage rather badly.)

To be fair, he was just making a comical porno rather than performing a sexy thought experiment. In-characterness and logic were obviously not on his mind.

Though my love of logicing out AUs based on a few simple changes has me interested in Anon's ideas.


You're looking unusually stressed for something that's just a joke, anon. Relax and let everyone put as little and as much rationale into the idea as they want.

Besides, we aren't discussing diaper-fic, we're discussing a more logically cohesive and effective way of going about breaking a Kyoshi Warrior through sex.

...Having said that, is sex even the best way to do it? Not that I don't enjoy the idea, but some of the things being used seemed slightly implausible so far. (But then there are spirit dragons, so I guess heroin-gas can get a pass.)

Ah, understood. carry on.


So the Fire Nation soldiers would have some delicious Earth Kingdom butt to rape.

Food deprivation, random aversive stimuli, causing fatigue through force labour... that kind of stuff works.
Even a Kyoshi Warrior would allow casual sexual access by their captors to avoid the harsh conditions of the prison life, especially if they are convinced that the invasion plans have failed and there's no way out.

I thought of a tetrodotoxin-like substance they could use to make a drug, from some kind of blowfish... say, a panda-putterfish or whatever.

Then I remembered there's also the shirshu spit with its paralyzing effects, so guards could have an easy way with someone as big as Chit Sang if they wanted.

Bonus points for not just going



Well there's 'casual sex access' and there's being 'broken'. I suppose we'd do well to try and draw a line between the two. It's also worth remembering that most of these warriors ARE going to be about 14/15 years old, so 'putting out' in jail is largely a foreign concept to them, even if they do know the birds and the bees.

However, the techniques you bring up would indeed be useful ones to implement, and would certainly aid their breakdown. I'm currently wondering how they can be blended in with the earlier sex-and-denail ideas...for most things it's fine, but the physical labour part is proving difficult, as they would need to be restrained enough to not touch themselves or generate an orgasm whilst still having enough mobility to heavily exert themselves. Whatever it is I doubt it would be beneficial, and would just be some monotonous, pointless task they are forced to repeat day after day.


Right, I think I'm going to stop talking now. I give too many ideas too quickly just by complaining about something like the implausibility of aphrodisiacs in pornographic fiction..

If they are too weary from different tasks, they would have a harder time offering resistance to a group of abusive guards.

I imagine with the war going on, they'd put the prisoners in forced labour like mining the Boiling Rock island as a source of minerals for tanks, or maybe the prisoners are forced to dig because the Warden wants to install more coolers.

"The Warden goes out to inspect and greet the new prisoners. In his usual arrogant fashion, he tells him that their time in the Boiling Rock doesn't have to be unpleasant, so long as they play by the rules."

Forcing prisoners to work in repetitive tasks to keep them unable of forming any kind of organization is a common practice in concentration camps.

I picture it like a situation where two guards decide to play "good cop bad cop" with any of the girls. I'll use Suki for example. Say she's tired and hungry because of the forced labour, and "Good Guard" shares part of his food with her, seeming not a threat but rather a friendly and compassionate guard that it's only following orders. By sharing his food when she's worked hard, or by sparing her from physical work, he engages in "grooming" to gain her trust and establishing an emotional connection. Suki would develop Stockholm syndrome to this Good Guard, going as far as telling the other Kyoshi that "not everyone is that bad."

Meanwhile, the "Bad Guard" does the death threats, scares Suki, and tells her nobody's going to rescue her because Azula has told her friends she's dead. During forced labour, he trips Suki up while she carries heavy stuff, or he makes derogatory remarks against the Kyoshi as a collective.

As part of their plan, one time Bad Guard wouldtry to harm Suki (with firebending), and Good Guard will "save" her. She'd then be isolated and would develop a feeling of gratitude towards Good Guard. But little she knows that the same night, both men will enter in her cell and who was once a friend is now holding her for the Bad Guard. They've this planned all along and there's nothing she can do, because they've taken shirshu spit venom to paralyze her in case she resists. After they've both had their forced way with her, they apply the paralyzing dart anyway, just so they make sure she can't do nothing but stay awake, developing an absolute feeling of impotence and helplessness. It's just matter of days before the two guards start bringing more men to abuse Suki, until she's no more than a "comfort woman" for the Fire Nation military stationed in Boiling Rock.

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What have I done?

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I'm waiting for The Dai Li's opinion.

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that's the kind of reactions I expect from people :3


Hahaha! Aww but Sharky, where's the harm?


For what it is, it sounds reasonable enough, and sure to cause long-lasting trauma. I imagine that as time goes on they'd wean her off the paralysing venom the less resistant she gets so she can be forced to do more things, by which time we assume she'd be numb enough to just go along with.

Though this IS assuming that such would happen. It strikes me as entirely in-character for her to just hold onto the one shining hope that Sokka would come to save her, and thus resist what's happening to her. Won't stop her being horribly traumatised of course, but still, I'd personally chalk that up as an 'unbroken'. I can't really fathom a way to change that outcome without somehow being able to confidently convince her that a Sokka-saving opportunity isn't going to happen. For that to happen, I think the best way to start would be to force her to speak it first, even if she doesn't mean it. Enough repetitions and it'll plant a decent seed of doubt in there. After that...I haven't thought much about it. Likely there would have to be one big SHUNT involved at some point, and then an aftermath to deal with.

Though...this is all a far cry from what I was originally envisioning to be honest. In the current scenario being discussed, it's basically the guards saying 'I'm gonna rape you!' and the girls being powerless to stop them and trying to cope with that through whatever means are available to them (the more limited the better). In an ideal mindfuck situation it should be the girls going 'Oh spirits PLEASE I can't stand it anymore!' and the guards going 'I dunno, I don't think you want it enough...' Thus making their prisoners jump through hoops that the prison complex had set up for them. Self-debasement and degradation, basically.

In the long run, I think that might weigh more heavily on their minds than just rape (presuming that the warrior in question doesn't get completely cowed into doing whatever the guards desire of her, even to the direct detriment of the other warriors). I don't deny that such a scenario would be much more difficult and take more work than the one you're suggesting to set up, though. I think that goes without saying.


To add, the good cop bad cop routine is certainly a winner due to its effectiveness against women and teenagers, and because it is transferable across scenarios. So good on that idea.


I also thought while they're imprisoned and until the eclipse failed invasion, they think Aang is death as everyone else in the Fire Nation does. They could've also been told that Sokka died during the invasion, and that Katara's been sent to a waterbender prison (like Hama). Would that be enough to break their morale?

>> somehow being able to confidently convince her that a Sokka-saving opportunity isn't going to happen.

Azula always lies. And she's pretty convincing...

But if you're going for a Niku Ringo or Kyoshiro Inoue style scenario, then you can just write them OOC and have them being not-so-goody-two-shoes. Guards get them drunk (maybe adding some Fire Nation equivalent to Spanish fly to their drinks) and girls go crazy like in one of those frat party college videos. Someone makes fun of their inexperience with alcohol, so they take it as a challenge. Suki is reluctant at first but the other Kyoshi get her drunk and high. Inhibitions gone, she tries to impress her friends and retain her leader status by whoring herself out. If you wanna go really bad taste with it, you can have her imagine that now as Sokka's probably death she has to do all this while imagining she's doing it with him or she imagines Katara must going for something similar wherever she's being kept captive.
The other girls do as they see and at the end, they become the guards' slutty pets thus avoiding the harsh treatment and forced labour the other prisoners get.


Suki, having faced Azula before and getting some small taste of her personality, would likely not put much credence into anything the fire princess says and does, putting down all attempts (even the most conving ones, like showing up with his boomerang) down as simple pleasure-torture. If anything, an act such as the boomerang one would probably bolster her, as she would become aware of what it is her captors are trying to do to her and so would redouble her mental fortitude regarding Sokka. When it comes to consistent, prolonged suffering over a particular topic or along a particular course, a person can and will adjust to such squalid treatment and would become more insular to the point of inscrutability. Better to hold the doom over her head and wait it out than try and 'realize' her fears.

As for your OOC suggestions, well that's just taking all the fun out of it, surely. I may as well not be discussing the Kyoshi Warriors at all if I were to go down that line of thinking. No no no; much better to think about how to realize it in a more practical manner.

One consideration I have yet to make is to largely remove the guards from the equation, and (through no doubt humiliating circumstances) orchestrate it so that the warriors are relieving each other. Due to their affinity and respect for one another they would certainly be more open to it...but in the end, thinking briefly, I am unsure of where it could lead to. It seems just as (if not more) likely to promote team unity, were this to be a free-for-all. Perhaps it would instead be better to divide the group into those who get the relief and those who provide the relief, creating a class-difference within the group that would harm their unity against their oppressors...seems like a good idea to start...

It's a different approach, may be interesting. I also thought the OOC scenario was weak, it's more or less what we'd get in a doujinshi actually. We're just brainstorming here...

Y'know, I can't help but feel really uncomfortable that this topic has gone so far and so long.

I suspect I wouldn't be so bothered if there was talk on how to break the Southern Water Tribe Warriors, Foggy Swamp benders, and the EK Troops.

Because, you know, they actually -MAY- have strategic infomation the Fire Nation would want. But then, I forgot, this has become a fetish thread. So please, carry on.

Prison guards start a clandestine fight club in the basements of Boiling Rock, pitting Foggy Swamp Tribesmen against each other.

Yeah. What bugs me is that it seems that automatically every time there's a strong female character or characters in a fandom, there's always going to be a section of the fandom that wants to see them raped and broken. Sometimes I'll turn a blind eye to it, but in the Avatar fandom it just makes me sick.

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Yeah, its better when its someone strong, instead of some weak moeblob. I can't explain the appeal, maybe it is a power thing. For me personally, I think its because most of my fapping material in my teenage years was hentai, where rape is commonplace, and I didn't know about any western 34 besides poorly drawn Flintstones crap. There is better western 34 out there, but I've gotten so used to hentai, its hard to get into the western stuff.

Y-You mean... Girls can WANT sex?

You're saying it like it's some bullshit where people can't stand strong women. No, some people just have a rape fetish, you're looking too much into it.
It's an alien concept I know, but it's true.

Y'all getting too mad over this. Simple fact is; I enjoy thinking up problems and resolving them in scenarios, and this particular scenario took my interest. That I'm discussing this because I 'dislike strong women' and want to see her take a dive is blatantly untrue. And everyoe knows sex is better if everyone's enjoying it.

I'm sure we all agree that what I and others have been discussing is a terrible thing and shouldn't be done to anyone; there certainly isn't any doubt in my mind that such is the case. It's the same kind of thing that churns my stomach everytime I read yet another post-war Azula fic where she's had her bending taking from her. And to me, Suki's probably just behind Azula as my favourite female cast member.

Buuuuut it's an interesting scenario, so I'm investing thought into it. To me, it doesn't matter what's being done so long as it's being done 'right'. If you're going to destroy a person, at least do more than write something idiotic like 'rape them until they like it'. What the hell kind of plan is that?

>Because, you know, they actually -MAY- have strategic infomation the Fire Nation would want.

This is probably the fairest point in the whole shebang. I mean, although I've been trying to apply logic to this scenario, the scenario itself seems to be born out of something illogical or just plain 'not done'...unless one were to assume that the Fire Nation just loooves to break foreign prisoners any way they can. Which I'm assuming they don't. The only way I could see it work is if they (Azula being a 'they') wanted to just utterly crush any fighting spirit they had left.

Oh and to add, what REALLY grinds my gears are the 'Katara is Zuko's concubine' fics. What the hell? As if that would ACTUALLY happen the way that they write it! Bollocks bollocks bollocks.

*imagines Katara in Leia's slave outift and Zuko as Jabba*

Just read the whole tread since my last post.... I'm really, really, really sorry! I guess I'll have to offer you all the head of M. Night to make amends. Or, if I fail that, offer you to give you all head. I will NOT be wearing a suki wig though. Maybe the make up.

... Okay, maybe thread was worth it for the image of Jabba Zuko.

It's not exactly that and I'm not trying to be White Knighting or anything, but it's the fact that they want these strong female characters raped and broken that irritates me. The girls in question would either be kicking the ass of their would-be attackers or finding a way to escape and/or kick their ass after, not become simpering, broken dolls or helpless playthings. Something like this >>84831 probably.



I think perhaps you're being naive, or have watched too many saturday-morning cartoons. Everyone has their limit. It's all well and good thinking about fighting the good fight, but truth be told it's actually apathy that helps best in 'breaking' situations because if you don't care, then they can't do anything to you. An ass-kicking attitude in a scenario where your captors hold all the cards will just lead to you kicking your own ass.

So if anything, that 'can-do attitude' is a much more flawed stance on this matter than 'yeah, lets break 'em! Rape rape rape!' Infact I daresay that's why the Concubine fics are so poor, all of them are basically Katara going 'No I don't want to be a slave release me!' and Zuko going 'No you are a slave deal with it (oh but I still respect your boundaries as a person even though I've just told you you have no rights).' repeat ad infinitum. Not only does nothing happen, but it just WOULDN'T happen like that even if one were to assume the Fire Nation had concubines.

I'm not saying that Suki, Katara et. al. WOULDN'T go in with th ass-kicking attitude, but I'd like them to be a bit more intelligent about it, and I'd like to see the changes that would actually happen in such circumstances, both to their mood and the way they and their captors would go about dealing with these changes.


And don't feel bad, all you did was make this thread interesting!

>>not become simpering, broken dolls or helpless playthings.

I posted links to articles about posttraumatic stress disorder and rape trauma.syndrome because I think there are circumstances we should understand.
Sadly, it's far too common for people to become helpless. It's a paradox of survival mechanisms.

I see where you are coming from, and frankly wish that if if one _must_ forgo cheerfully consentual sex going on that there was more of the womenfolk taking the lead if you will. Seriously, why fixate on overpowering the strong women if thier strength is su much of the appeal?

Unfortunately, there is some holdover of the "Good Girls Don't" thing across several fandoms.

*snort* Bingo, Zuko is a shy and decent sort who would be rather loathe to force himself on anyone whilst Katara would require considerable conditioning to not kill the guy in his sleep. The closest is someone strongarming them both into a political marriage.

Again, I concur with the 'probably fighting' part, to the point where each session leaves a few assailants maimed. That is why nonphysical coersion makes more sense if sexual abuse happens at all.


>why fixate on overpowering the strong women if thier strength is so much of the appeal?

Why do people want to conquer Everest when there's a perfectly acceptable hill next to their house?

That is a terrible metaphor for this particular situation.

Everyone has a breaking point. especially when you take into account all of the mental things that one anon posted. I don't know why they're doing this, but it isn't because they want to break a strong women, it's because they like rape and messsed up psychological shit.

Well I messed that up. I said I didn't know why, then said why in the same sentence.


I thought someone would say that but it really isn't; the basic mentality's the same.


No, it's a pretty shit metaphor. This isn't lifting weights, running in a race or even getting laid with somebody who's resistant to your efforts. This isn't competition.

There's a difference between personal accomplishment in the face of a highly dangerous and difficult task and enjoying beraking and destroying a person's psyche for reasons of personal, sociopathic, power dynamics or lust.

Gonna have to join the "what the fuck, man" side on this one.


Just because you don't like what it implies doesn't mean it isn't true. You don't climb a mountain, you CONQUER a mountain. It's a battle between you and something other than yourself, and, at the end, you triumph over that something else. Or you don't.

It's a game. Can you keep at it long enough to break the other person? Are you skilled enough? Ruthless enough? Do you even need to be, depending on the person you're trying to destroy?

Crushing the soul of the already wavery and weak is not as triumphant a feeling as taking it from someone proud and strong. People, rocks, a marathon or a fight with a wild animal; it's all the same instinct: to be more powerful than something else, to have that power, whether that power is yours, or something you've taken from someone else.

And as for the why? Why not! What reasons do you need? 'I want this information', 'I want to prove myself' 'I want this person to suffer', what's the difference? Are any inherently right? Can they be? We climb the mountain 'because it is there', do we not? It isn't like people don't already kill because they CAN kill.

Your problem is that you're working under the assumption that this rule somehow doesn't apply to humans. How can a person equate to dirt, you say? How can people feel that way? See things that way? None of that matters. It is what it is, and if you can't recognize that, then you're fooling yourself. It's a point of view and it's a way people feel.

Your opinion of it, however, can be whatever you want it to be. Revulsion. Anger. Horror. Agreement. Enjoyment, even. That's all up to you. Equally, you can either accept that it's within you, or you can disregard it. How you feel about it is your own business.

And please, although this is also your own business, I would ask you don't judge me too harshly for saying all of this. Afterall, I'm not raping anyone. I have no intention of ever mentally destroying a person. And really, it's intent and action that matters, hmm? You can hold whatever viewpoints you have, but you can only ever be judged on your actions.

And what I have done is give an honest (if cold) explanation regarding a particular way of thinking. What do I deserve for that, I wonder, telling people who ask something they don't want to hear...


I know...and I can't say I like it either.

Poster of >>85126 here.
None of that was my point whatsoever. I can't explain why it's a bad metaphor, on account of the fact that I just woke up, but I can give you one that seems more fitting to me.
>why fixate on overpowering the strong women if thier strength is su much of the appeal?
>Why take an elevator up Everest if climbing it is so much of the appeal?

I can't REALLY speak for the anon who posted that first bit of greentext, but I think he was asking "Why are you trying to make these women so weak when what makes them so hot is the fact that they could kick your ass?"

I haven't read all of the thread, just the last little bit, but it seems to me like it's drifting into OOC territory. The Kyoshi warriors were trained NOT to break. Ever. Even after weeks in a maximum security prison, Suki still beats the crap out of any guy that makes a move on her.

Apologies for any typos I didn't catch, I'm still half-asleep.


>The Kyoshi warriors were trained NOT to break. Ever. Even after weeks in a maximum security prison, Suki still beats the crap out of any guy that makes a move on her.

First of all, anyone can break. Anyone. Even the strongest of strong warriors or mightiest or mighty willed people. As long as you were a functioning human being to begin with, and not some emotionless sociopath, then you can in fact be broken. The Kyoshi warriors may or may not have been trained not to break, but all that does is delay the inevitable. With enough time and the right methods applied, even said training would falter.

Second of all, all things considered, Boiling Rock seemed pretty lax by maximum security Fire Nation standards. Free to roam about in a yard during certain parts of the day, being outside during said day, not even chained or restrained during this, co ed, given possible weapons like mops to clean with, etc etc. This is most likely because of it being a kids show. If a more realistic depiction of what a maximum security prison in an imperialistic nation willing to sacrifice its own soldiers ruled by a man that has no problem permanently scaring his own son's face and wiping out entire Kingdoms of innocent people were to be explored, I think you'd find that Suki would have a much tougher time not succumbing to that kind of horror.

And that's not even considering that in the show, there didn't seem to be any conscious effort going on by any one person or group of individuals based around the specific goal OF breaking the one prisoner named Suki, as opposed to some of the scenarios previously mentioned in this thread where such an effort being happening is very much the case.

>First of all, anyone can break. Anyone. Even the strongest of strong warriors or mightiest or mighty willed people. As long as you were a functioning human being to begin with, and not some emotionless sociopath, then you can in fact be broken. The Kyoshi warriors may or may not have been trained not to break, but all that does is delay the inevitable. With enough time and the right methods applied, even said training would falter.
Except that this is a young adults' action/adventure fantasy story. Genre trumps logic.


What a person likes and what is socially acceptable doesn't always match up.

Lets say you enjoy slasher horror movies. It gives you an adrenaline rush and entertains you to see bad guys run around, killing hapless victims, only to eventually meet his demise at the hands of the protagonist. This doesn't automatically make you a serial killer, and if you saw a real murder, you wouldn't find it nearly as entertaining. But you just like what you like. Whether its rape, furry, face-sitting, vore, etc, whatever you like is something that is perfectly fine to enjoy in private or with a consenting partner who will roleplay with you as long as you can keep fantasy separate from reality.

In the end, this is all just pretend, and the real stuff would likely squick us out, as is the case of lolicons who find actual CP to be appalling.


>I can't REALLY speak for the anon who posted that first bit of greentext, but I think he was asking "Why are you trying to make these women so weak when what makes them so hot is the fact that they could kick your ass?"

Its the depowering that is so appealing. You know how you have to build a villain up to be powerful so that his defeat is more satisfying? When Azula or Ozai was defeated, it was more satisfying then defeating some villain of the week, like those monsters at the end of The Great Divide. The feeling of overpowering a weakling isn't appealing, since its easy. Its more titillating to overpower someone significantly stronger then you. Its like the saying goes "the bigger they are, the harder they fall."

This. All of it.


So it'd be perfectly fine to have Suki succumb to many unwanted dickings if the genre in question was a hentai fanfiction about a young adult's action/adventure fantasy story instead of young adult's action/adventure fantasy story.

I guess, maybe. Really I have no idea what this thread is even about anymore.

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>this entire thread

>Its the depowering that is so appealing.
Eeeeh, if you say so. I still think someone being overpowered and forcibly sexed up BY the Kyoshi warriors would be much hotter than the opposite.

Agree that we're both sick fucks to disagree, then, I guess?

Could it be possible to break one of the Kyoshi warriors without the others knowing, and using her to work on the others in some way? I've got no experience with psychology so I don't know.

Yes, it is possible.


Depends how you mean. If you're talking about 'Yes Master No Master' gleeful cackling henchman type stuff, then no.

If it's a more simple 'can you use a girl against the rest of the girls' then yes, there are many and varied ways you could do that, a fair number without her even actually meeting or talking to the other girls.

You could always use the imperious curse.

Oh shit, wrong board!

Do you think any of the female guards might have raped the male guards? No one ever considers reverse rape.

Because that's not as common. Not to say it isn't a possibility, but it's less likely.

Don't you mean male prisoners? Because otherwise that doesn't really make sense.

What if Suki is not hear real name but it's a nickname they give her in her town because she's a girl with this oral fixation that makes she go and suck any guy she meets.
Suki's parents got her into Kyoshi warriors so she'd have something else to do. They never imagined Suki would end in a prison surrounded by so many inmates and guards, unable to control her urges.


That's just retarded.

That's the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. You could at least looked up the name's actual meaning (roughly paraphrased as "she who is loved" in Japanese).

Then you're pronouncing her name wrong.

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Knowing what 好き means doesn't mean I care for what it means.

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Right male prisoners, my mistake.

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>Suki's parents got her into Kyoshi warriors so she'd have something else to do. They never imagined Suki would end in a prison surrounded by so many inmates and guards, unable to control her urges.

I'm not locked up in here with you. You're locked up in here with me.


Now Sukischach would be a fanfic I'd read.


Her "oral fixation" would explain those dick-sucking lips of hers.

see? I knew it had a rational explanation.

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This thread inspired me. Enjoy!


The bell tinkled softly in the bustling servant chambers of the royal palace, rousing Tray 27 from her standing-stupor.

Everyone else bar a few of the other trays were busy preparing for tonight’s feast, cooking, examining recipes and smarting themselves up. 27 didn’t know what the feast was for. She waited.

Blithely, she felt the two chains on her neck pull taught as a bottle of water and a glass were placed on 27 by the matron in charge of this area of the kitchen, too much in a hurry herself to tell the tray to leave. Not that she needed to these days. 27 stepped forward and went through the door.

27 knew the path by wrote now, having travelled it hundreds of times over many years of service; the only impediment to progress along it being the same thing as ever; a chain preventing anything more than a light and steady walk. 27 had gotten used to it and adapted; the chain hardly ever came taught now. 27 was in no hurry.

Along the way 27 was passed by other servants, generals and other persons of noble stature. 27 eyes stayed straight ahead during the journey, unmindful of any looks received. It used to be that 27 and the other trays received many of them during the early days of their instalment, but now it was a common sight and the lustre had worn off for everyone. There never was any lustre for 27.

Arriving at the destination the tolled, 27 stepped into the room; the room that had been assigned to 27 since coming to the palace, a room that, by all accounts, was the last room 27 had wanted to ever be in. It didn’t bother 27 any more.

The owner of the room sat comfily in her chair, letting her servants cluster about as she talked to her friend in the chair opposite, the red-robed chambermaids filing and brushing away to prepare their Fire Lady for the day ahead. 27 walked to take a stand next to the seat.

The Lady herself picked up the jug and poured herself some water, taking a sip and quietly smiling at something her pink friend said, waving 27 back to her post without looking. No mocking words, no perverted pleasure, no incitement. Not anymore. Now 27 was just like any other tray in the palace. Had been for some time.

Walking back with the jug, 27 could remember when life there was a lot tougher to take...back when 27 had been tougher. Back when the arms within the binder had not yet been so wasted and 27 could still struggle...back when 27 still tried to speak through the gag to try and evoke emotion. Back when 27 would have at least tried to bend the water within the cup to freeze it within the Fire Lady’s throat.

Now life was all more peaceful. The arms rested uselessly within their bindings and nothing muffled behind the gag. Even the pangs of desire to waterbend had left 27; having sputtering out over months of monotony and fruitless efforts within now-comfortable cuffs and chains. These days 27 behaved.

Clinking and jingling back into the kitchen, 27 once more stepped under the designated bell and turned outwards, forming into line with the rest of the trays; each one waiting for their own bell to ring so they could serve the guests arriving for the anniversary of the Avatar’s defeat.

Thoughts fading; 27 stared, and waited for the next jingle to rouse her.


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And then I felt bad that I left Suki out when this is a thread about her, so...enjoy!


Suki clopped through the stables, keeping her eyes on the path and the golden chain that led her along it.

Even if she had wanted to, she couldn’t look around; the posture collar and the blinders had put paid to those dreams. All she could focus on was what was ahead of her, and whether she was supposed to go there through whip or by chain.

She wondered if any of her fellow warriors were in the stables around her; strutting around, waiting for their own carriages. She couldn’t hear them if they were; the ear-muffs fitted into her hood made sure of that. The world was silent and ever-encroaching.

Even her footsteps were only felt as a thud as she hit the ground, pure tactile sensation was the only thing she was really aware of these days. The tightness of the corset, the flex of muscle as she raised her knee above her waist, placing her hoof elegantly infront of her...movement learned by rote after days and weeks of training.

Movement that, she realised, had become natural to her, as if she had always walked on platformed tip-toe with only a braced sole for support. It was no longer difficult, nor felt unusual; her legs had become strong enough to compensate; the muscles in her calves and the curve of her feet having adapted to their new environment.

She was not sure how she felt about that. She continued to trot behind her handler.

Suki did not know the girl’s name, only that she was kind, and the only one to offer her any sort of comfort during her time within her pen; a gentle touch along words that could not be heard, but still felt. She treated her like an individual, as if she didn’t look like every other girl within the enclosure. It was small comfort, but Suki was still grateful.

And yes, perhaps she was not as anonymous as she thought; trapped behind a black hooded bodysuit as she was. Suki felt the motion of the headdress as it pushed through the air; the feather gaining weight in her heightened senses. She remember she had kicked like mad when they tried to fit it on her the first time; the gaudy diadem making a mockery of everything she and her sisters had stood for. Now...she bore it grudgingly, hoping that she could at least spot her sister’s if they too wore such crowns. She had not yet seen any, making it likely she was being used as a symbol to show her warriors how powerless they had become in defeat. Weak little women, to dress up and use as they pleased.

The thought sank into her coldly, hands tightening on elbows for a brief moment. She could not prove them wrong. Not when she couldn’t even remove said hands from her elbows.

Which was exactly the plan. For now she was pulling carriages, but if she behaved, if she did as instructed and worked hard, she could be a racer...and racers got to use their arms to help pull their sulkies. And if she had arms, she had a means for escape.

A quick snap of her chain brought her to heel next to her handler, the stablehand giving her arm an appreciative squeeze before leashing her to a post so she could unlock the gate.

Suki waited like the good girl she was. She was patient. She had not given up.

She would be free.

...She would.



What is happening.


The good times are happening.

Roll with me, brother.


You win all the internets, once again.

And here I was just afraid that the Fire Nation would try and pull a Clockwork Orange/ Earth-Kingdom style re-education on the Kyoshi Warriors/ political prisoners, leading towards a surprise betrayal near the finale.

Thankfully that never happened and we got a basic but enjoyable prison escape episode.

We got enough of that at Ba Sing Se.
It would be kinda strange if they pulled the mind control thing again.

Have you read If you bend it, they will Cum?


Yes. It sucks.


Seconding. It doesn't start off terrible, but what the hell were those last chapters about? Krazy times.

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Also, I got another one...probably the last, as I can't think of any other girls to include in this 'series'. This one I found the most entertaining to design though, so...enjoy!


She was starting to lose herself.

She could feel it slipping a little more each day. Her...person. The word ‘I’. The way she felt about things and the way she handled things. It wasn’t that she was forgetting how she used to do them, but there was a...distance to those memories, like they didn’t belong anymore. Like she wouldn’t do that anymore.

For instance, she could easily recall her attitude back when she had first been installed in Mistress’ audience chamber. Reluctant. Aggressive. Still calling her Mistress by name even though she wasn’t supposed to. Little things, really; but the only things she could do to go against her assigned position.

Now, her position seemed to be all that she had. She had even stopped bothering to think of Mistress as anything other than...that. An attitude that would have surprised her a few months ago. Not now, though. It seemed a natural progression, given that she had to call her ‘Mistress’ all the time anyway. It was not as big a deal as she had thought it’d been.

Another thing that she was vaguely aware of happening was her increasing awareness of the palace and those within it. For a while her appreciation of it was the sensation was intoxicating; feeling the hundreds of heartbeats, the thousands of footfalls every day; each slightly different, each with their own walks and their own moods and all so much more alive than she was. Bees hive, except all the Bees had their own quirks. She could spend hours subsumed in the activities of a single servant, feeling them brush the stones clean as if they were stroking her own skin, or go keep tabs on the Trays and who was ordering the most service that day...or both. Or all. She was aware of so many things, and, with her consciousness expanding across the grounds week on week, it was starting to collect her thoughts. It felt like they were spreading out of her, into the floors and the walls along with her awareness of the world, locking her sense of reality into the building she had become so much a part of. It was getting too easy to imagine herself and the palace being the same thing. The same...being?

She didn’t know. It was just a...just something. She didn’t like to think about it. Feeling was so much more pleasant a sensation than thinking.

Hitching out of her own thoughts she latched onto the presence of her Mistress entering the chamber, having followed her sub-consciously since she awoke in the morning. Mistress arrested her attention through the simplest of incentives: Fear. A couple of presses on the footpad at the base of her container and she would be severed from the earth. Totally blind. Totally helpless. She did not want to feel that way again if she could help it.

There was also something else...her friends. Mistress, as well she knew, had nearly all of them within her power, and should she act out of turn then they would also pay for her disrespect. It was strange, though... that used to be her main reason for obeying. Now...she didn’t know. Maybe it still was. Maybe those treats Mistress had given her like the honey she sometimes received and the clockwork thing between her legs had worn the edges off her resistance. She didn’t know.

Feeling the rubber twist in her mouth, she strained to open her mouth just that fraction wider to help ease the release of her breathing-gag; the stopper clicking out with a wet trail of drool behind it; the ear muffs detaching a moment later. Then her Mistress spoke.


“Yes Mistress,” She replied automatically, her voice flattening as she spread her mind out into the world, “All servants have awoken and gone about their business. Trays 32 and 49 have both remained in bed due to illness, Tray 33 has recovered and is back on duty. All guards are present and in their proper positions. Governors Shi and Jian are first in line for audience, with your military council waiting behind them.”

“I see.”

No honey. No turning of a key. No orders to focus on the council members to see if anyone was too uneasy or lying. Her services were not needed today. The Fire Lady re-inserted the gag and took her seat, leaving her ears free to listen in on the meeting. A luxury....but one she wasn't interested in right now. Morning excercise was still going on, afterall.

Clenching her toes, Toph went to watch firebenders train in her courtyard.

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It's threads like this one that make me embarrassed to have recommended /a/ as a fun, sane alternative to most of Avatar fandom.


You really do that?

You're crazier than everyone in this thread.

have I mentioned this week that I'm REALLY sorry for the part I played in getting this stuff going? I mean...REEEEAAAALLY SORRY! Still working on dealing with M. Night for you all, not sure it'll be enough to regain my HONOR!


Don't be so hard on yourself; I'd say this thread has been a runaway success! What other threads here have generated original content other than the Gaang Jr. one?

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This tread went from sexy hentai rape fantasy to creepy ICS type fanfic. What happened?!


International Chili Society?

ICS is the handle for this one artist that does a lot of comics and artwork and the like of mind-control, mind-wiping, brainwashing, and objectifying people (sometimes turning people into actual objects.) It's pretty creepy, really, though it isn't quite as sexually charged as Dai Li's stuff often is.

And just like Dai Li, his more normal stuff is often actually rather enjoyable, the rest of the shit is just unsettling.

Sometimes I just look at the internet and wonder "..... does it have to be THAT weird?"

I actually think ICS has a really cute style, and don't mind the fetish stuff. I think whatever gets him drawing constantly is good, and his style and ability to tell a story is something I love seeing grow. He actually trimmed back the fetish stuff last time I checked on his stuff due to criticism from /co/. I wish I had the link to his stuff now, but I seem to have lost it.


Really? I'll be glad for that then, as though I uppose me and ICS share a few boats, he tends to steer them in directions I don't care for. If he's limiting fetish stuff, then that's good.

I just worry that he's limiting himself artistically and might have lost some of his motivation. While I don't indulge it all the time, I'm aware that I and other artists can get quite a bit of milage out of using sexual desires and ideas to drive the creative process. I don't think he goes to /co/ as often, and when he stopped really going was around the time I stopped as well. I really want to see what he becomes as an artist, and I think anyone who's seen a wide range of his work would feel the same way. I especially love his Samus strip (non sexual) that one of the most badass/quirky tributes to the character out there.

Darn, I'm really off any sort of topic now... not that I feel much guilt for that.


Samus, you say? Any link to his site or the pic? I'm a rather big fan of the lass.

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An example of some of ICS's stuff for those who aren't familiar.

OH that guy.

When you look past the fetishistic intent, he weaves some very clever (and genuinely unnerving) myths.

I actually found his site again.

Seems like he's been keeping very busy, which is all I worried about. So: GOOD END.


These words just don't go together when I read them.

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We're not insane.
We're just mad geniuses.

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Interesting, very interesting.
I can not say I did not enjoy Suki's story and her new outfit and would not want more.
Unlike Katara's story which was like Mai's fate in Lake Laogai an example of massive fan disservice and appalled me to no end.
The same applies to a lesser degree to Toph's story.

You all realise that should this thread be deleted, I will put those pictures and stories up in every fanart thread dedicated to those specific ladies, right?



And I'd hardly call what I did to Mai a disservice. And I haven't finished yet!


Yes, we, reader still do not know much about Mai's post-brainwashing **shiver** 'task'.


It's interesting that you liked Suki's story but didn't like Katara's though; Toph's too. I mean, in none of these is brainwashing or mind-alteration undertaken. The only difference between Suki and Katara is that Suki still has a reason to want to break free; and from the narrative its apparent that she is also the one being more conditioned than Katara within her own station.

Toph, on the otherhand, is struggling with a more natural and personal problem, and has been emotionally blackmailed into the service she now resides in rather than through simple 'force', due to the fact her job is unique. It's likely she never really put up too much of a fuss at any point because of that fact.

In summation, their mental states are more what they're doing to themselves in these situations than what someone is overtly doing to them. They are after the FUNCTION of the tasks, not changing the way the people who provide that function feel about it. To simplify it; they don't care how Suki feels about pulling carraiges so long as she pulls them, and so have made no effort to attack her mind over it.


Katara is reduced to an exposed object with a number.
Suki is less broken and is treated by the girl at least as pet who still deserves some dignity.
More condition in Suki's case does not change that Suki is still one level above Katara who has resigned to her fate.


But it was Katara resigned herself to her fate, and that makes all the difference.

Besides, I'm quite convinced that she could be knocked out of that funk if she was just given a little something to hope for. Suki has the hope of freeing her arms, and that's what's keeping her going, for some part. It's just that there's no-one to pep-talk Katara in the palace, and no forseeable future or hope therein. 'Least not at that point in the story.

Personally, I think Toph's in the most danger, as, in the event that everyone is freed, she's going to have the hardest time reajusting, both physically from being entombed for so long, and mentally from her warping perception of the world and herself in regards to it. Katara, by contrast, should make a good comeback.

...But none of that makes the scenarios un-fucked-up. Suki's is just the least fucked up. Even ignoring the psychological aspects.


I wasn't arguing that, was I? I'm just saying that the difference between Katara and Suki's situations is largely down to their respective attitudes, not their respective positions.

Though the fact that it's fucked-up that they remain useful and not rotting in prison is somewhat amusing. I guess it's all down to the attire, isn't it?

I'm just trying to explain why Leserlink would say what he said, which was that Suki's story was okay but the others were just uuugh.

>Though the fact that it's fucked-up that they remain useful and not rotting in prison is somewhat amusing.
I don't think I need to explain that people, while generally unopposed to incarceration, have a problem with slavery. There's a profound difference between one (taking away someone's freedom and removing them from society) and the other (taking away someone's freedom and treating them like a thing).


Modern sensibilities. I'm pretty sure we still have prisoners doing and making shit these days too.

Though yes, I suppose if given the choice, Suki WOULD prefer to not pull around the people who had captured her in carriages. But eh, dem's da breaks if you get caught!


I'm also equally sure that Suki's predicament was more tolerable because it gave the impression that she was still essentially 'Suki', while Katara's didn't seem to be Katara anymore and Toph was slipping into a weird human/building blend of a persona. So it wasn't down to the fucked-up, but indeed down to the psychology.

I mean, judging the pictures just on their content, and they're all as bad as each other.


Bullshit, "modern sensibilities."

Slaves in ancient times were treated as animals or barely civilized humans, but we put them to fucking *practical* work. Rome wasn't built in a day, but it sure as shit was built by slaves.

Shit, let's use an in-show example, the Fire Nation during the course of the actual series used Earthbenders as slaves on a metal facility to forge iron.

Even the sexual aspects of this? Hell, most of the time, I think people in their respective civilizations wouldn't even rape their slaves, they saw it as unclean. Concubines were at least still citizens, or of similar nationality as citizens, they were just dirt fucking poor, or couldn't marry for whatever reason, they weren't *slaves.*

Nowhere in history can we account for people being tied up half-naked in pony-bondage outfits and used as living tables, or locked in a fucking standing coffin.


I think that's why I said it's the attire. But to address the specific points...well, Toph's restraints are necessary, as shown with King Bumi. Katara's restraints are also necessary, though obviously the nude parts are just there for show (which is also part of the point regarding superiority).

Suki's the odd one out, being that I'm sure they have serviceable ponies already. Again though, it could just be a power-display by the rich and the handsome. It isn't like slaves haven't been used for entertainment purposes before.

Also note than in none of them or the stories do they get raped. They just look rapeable. Hmm...might class Toph as machine-raped though, I think that's fair; in which case isn't that terrible?

Modern prisoners are obliged to make themselves useful through menial labor, but they're still recognized as human beings. They're just paying back the debts to society that they incurred upon themselves by committing crimes. They're not treated like animals or appliances. Some historical cases of slavery, such as in the Roman Empire, followed similar principals.

Talk about cultural relativism all you like, but I hold that sin begins when you start treating people like things. GRANNY WEATHERWAX TAUGHT ME THAT AND NOTHING YOU CAN SAY WILL CHANGE MY MIND.

>I mean, judging the pictures just on their content, and they're all as bad as each other.
Look at Toph. Look at her. Is that really on the same level as ponygirl stuff? There's really no difference between her and the average ICS girl.


Heh, I did actually write 'With Toph a little ahead' originally, but then deleted it. I guess you think it's bad too, eh?

Don't worry; I'm sure in the end, after she becomes the Palace, she'll be able to make little Toph-Avatars out of the floor to walk around as! Won't that be good?

Stop mocking me.


No mockage intended.

I still find it odd that Pony Suki is 'acceptable', though, all because she has a handler who treats her nicely, as if she were a prize mare. In some ways I dare say that it might be more damaging than not being 'treated' at all. After Toph, I see Suki having the hardest time readjusting because of such kindness.

It also suggests that it's more okay to treat a person as a pet than as a prized object, or possession; like a car. It isn't any better; if you're not treating a person AS a person, then it's all bad. Equally. Isn't a pet just a 'thing' people have anyway?

I'll stop there and let the pet-lovers have their say now, about 'another member of the family' and all that rot.

....I demand Mai.


...I am a horrible person. ;_;


Well you're not getting any; in this ideal world of Fire Nation supremacy, she's sitting pretty.

...I guess she is the one other girl would something like this COULD happen to though. Narratively speaking.

>No mockage intended.
Maybe it's because text can't convey sarcasm, but when you say things like, "Isn't that terrible?" and, "Won't that be good?" it feels like you're adding a roguish wink and tip of the hat to these scenarios. Unless that's genuine revulsion at the idea of Toph's rape and true belief that some manner of pseudo-freedom is enough to really lighten her situation, then you're making light of these stories and mocking my reaction to them.

>Isn't a pet just a 'thing' people have anyway?
If your neighbor smashes in the windshield of his convertible with a baseball bat, you think, "Man, what a nutjob." If he does the same to his golden retriever...

She's Fire Nation nobility and thus it makes no sense; moving on.


Well alright, maybe SOME hat-tipping is going on then if you're putting it like that, but it was tongue-in-cheek; I doubt that if she could do that it would actually appease you any. Might appease HER, but she's probably not exactly Toph by that point either.

>If your neighbor smashes in the windshield of his convertible with a baseball bat, you think, "Man, what a nutjob." If he does the same to his golden retriever...

I'd...also think he's a nutjob?

Thing is, I'm sure in this scenario that Azula would care a lot more if Toph got damaged or hurt than if Suki or Katara did, simply because she's a unique and prized possession while Trays and Ponies are ten-a-penny. And Toph is the most possession-y out of all of them.

My cat is my family. He's my pet as much as I am a pet to him, actually. It's all about getting in the mind of the animal to understand the underlying instincts that motivate behavior. So I'm against the idea that pets are "things" any more than ourselves are "things".

My cat started learning from me when I learned how cats communicate. People call me the cat whisperer.

>I'd...also think he's a nutjob?
I think that the average person would want to give him a taste of his own medicine, or at least report him to the police. There are laws against that shit, you know. Even though a pet is someone's property, they are required to treat it well.

And Azula being a psychopath with warped values isn't really that big of a factor here. Suki's new role is that of something with an intrinsically higher value than Katara or Toph (especially Toph), so she is perceived as getting a better deal.


I would refute that Suki's position is of an intrinsically higher value than Toph's, and state that your comparison of a car to a dog is a faulty one.

I refute this because the maximum penalty on animal cruelty in the UK is 6 months of Hard Labour and a 25 pound fine. The maximum sentence for theft or destruction of property is life imprisonment.

Toph, being of unique importance, is in a position worth intrisically more than Suki, as the Mona Lisa is worth more than some generic pony. So on those grounds, Suki is not getting a 'better deal' and is considered more expendable.

Katara might be boned though.

>The maximum sentence for theft or destruction of property is life imprisonment.
That refers to someone else's property. You can mess up your own shit as much as you want without fear of retribution (though your methods may get you in trouble for disturbing the peace or something, depending on where you do it).


Hmm, a fair point. Though I'm sure that no-one would object if Azula wailed on Suki either, you understand.

They're all equally enslaved afterall. Possessions. It's just Suki has a few more people buffering her; which doesn't make up for her lack of importance. No-one other than the littlest of people care about the welfare of Suki. Azula cares about the health of Toph. Even if it's just in a 'car maintenance' kind of way. And in terms of law and value and healthcare, Toph's out ahead. I'm equally sure that she has sympathies with the servant(s) who come to feed her and polish her, as Suki does with her handler.

I refer you back to my previous statement: >>85704

It's not about how Azula and her servants treat them, it's about the degree of value traditionally associated with their respective roles. "She treats me like a pet," though bad, sounds better than, "She treats me like an appliance."


In which case, this is all down to flawed human thinking. Who cares what you are treated like? It all comes down to how well you are treated within those parameters. You think Suki, overall, gets treated better than Toph?

Actually, no, that isn't really the point I want to make (though I still consider it a valid one). Suki's position more ENVIABLE than Toph's? I think that is what this comes down to. And is it right to believe that Suki's position is more enviable than Toph's, because she gets to trot around? I realise most people would say 'yes', because her position seems to be more free,'s an illusion of freedom. A very cloying, very tricky illusion, that's easy to fall under with the right kind of treatment. Hell, Suki HAS fallen under it and doesn't even realise it.

...No. No, it's not any better. Not really. It just seems more appealing on the surface; if you don't think about it too hard. I mean, alright, so she acts nice and becomes a racing horse. You think she's going to be able to escape then? Truly? That no-one in the stables or anything will have thought of ways that they could use their arms without increasing chances of escape? And that's not taking into account what happens how adjusted to the program and her treatment Suki might have gotten. What about when she gets older and can't run so fast? What if she gets sick or injured?

Now, consider Toph's position. Yep, her current one seems to suck, but long-term prospects are favourable. Much moreso than Suki's.

Too much knee-jerkin' in favour of the one who seems more 'human'. It's all equally bad, the 'compromise' position is just putting rose-tinted glasses on things. But then, that's what people want, isn't it?

Ah, humanity...

Hey, I'm just trying to explain why someone would think Suki got the better deal. It's not entirely rational, but it's a reason. People often judge things by how they appear on the surface, and sometimes maintain their biases even when they've been proven wrong. And really, all Leserlink was saying was that he liked the Suki fic more because the others were simply creepier. I was addressing why he probably thought that. Yes, it all comes down to superficial differences. So what? It's like you're saying, "He favors grape popsicles over cherry ones, even though they have the same nutritional value. Ah, humanity..."

This probably sounds confused as hell; I'm having a hard time expressing my thoughts right now.


I don't think either of us are having much luck conveying what we mean. It's a difficult subject; maybe because it isn't usually discussed with this much detail. Normally you're lucky to get past 'It's creepy' or 'It's hot'.

I guess what I'm saying borrow your example, 'The grape popsicles look and taste better, but the cherry ones are a little better for you.' Or the cherry ones come with fre healthcare. Or something.

And I think the rest of the logic can be thought-out from that. I'm not refuting the facts; I'm just questioning the logic behind the thoughts.

I'm saying there isn't much logic behind them, at least compared to emotion. The idea of being turned into an appliance is more distasteful than that of being turned into a pet. How it works out in practice is irrelevant.

To continue the metaphor, "Cherry popsicles may be better for you, but I still don't like them as much as the tastier grape ones."


I think the problem here may be that...we never had a problem in the first place. You're saying 'They think x' and I'm saying 'Yes and they shouldn't.'

I never was truly baffled as to why people favoured Suki's predicament, I was just interested (and maybe a little disappointed) regarding the thought being put behind the idea. You say it's because her position looks more appealing? That's fine. That's an opinion, and a valid one to have. I'm just saying it isn't more appealing. And I, at least, am treating that as fact.

Let's try to put the situation in context.

This is all about fetishes. Specifically, a combination of the slavery/dehumanization/mindbreak/whatever fetishes. The fact that someone (namely, you) finds this subject matter sexually arousing is the only reason that these stories exist. They wouldn't have been written otherwise. Their content makes no logical or narrative sense unless we assume that it was generated for the purpose of titillation.

Thus, the degree to which the stories correspond with the reader's own fetishes is the deciding factor of their individual appeal. Leserlink's BDSM tastes made the Suki story quite accommodating to him, but they did not extend to the Katara and Toph stories. Thus, the latter two are less appealing to him.

Pornography is usually rated in terms of how well it arouses the reader; implications concerning the long-term social mobility of the characters are generally a much lower priority.

And on a personal note, none of these stories did anything for me. I'm no prude; I've fapped repeatedly to a story about a man reaching third base with a mantis-headed insectoid woman. But plots like these just make me go no no no whyyy because I'm moderately empathic and the imagery's about as sexy as a mailbox because I like ladies with facial features. Just my two cents.


Genome I'm sure you're being very clear about whatever it is you're talking about (which I presume is 'why Leserlink thinks one is hot and one is not), but I just have no idea how it relates to what I am saying at this point in time.

I wrote a whole page of stuff down detailing my thoughts on this for this reply; but you wouldn't get it, so I'm going to try and shear it down to a few sentences.

...Suki is no better off than Katara or Toph, psychologically and in-scenario.
It APPEARS that she is, due to her still appearing to be Suki. But it is not the case.
However, because of this appearance, and the fact that the greater chunk of the eroticism relies on empathising with the characters (YOU WA SHOCK), she seems more tolerable. This, I posit, is not a nice thing to think, and should be pondered upon by all who think it (read: those who find Suki's predicament hot, and the others not)

Or Leserlink likes ponies and just takes it on imagery alone like you, and not the way the characters <i>react</i> to the imagery, which is where the fun truly lies. Pretty sure he likes to see the fight though.

I've a lot more to say about things like why I wrote this the way I did, the 'why' it was set up and how the whole thing ticks and why it ticks the boxes for some and not for others, but...that would take pages and pages of writing, and you don't really care enough to hear the reasons behind WHY something like this is appealing to people or why it gets written or not. So I'll just leave it off here. For now.

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Don't you people have anything better to do than this?

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can somebody do a TL;DR version of this thread

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Don't worry, I'll keep my reply succinct.

>However, because of this appearance, and the fact that the greater chunk of the eroticism relies on empathising with the characters (YOU WA SHOCK), she seems more tolerable. This, I posit, is not a nice thing to think, and should be pondered upon by all who think it (read: those who find Suki's predicament hot, and the others not)

>Or Leserlink likes ponies and just takes it on imagery alone like you, and not the way the characters <i>react</i> to the imagery, which is where the fun truly lies. Pretty sure he likes to see the fight though.


I'd continue in detail but hopefully I shouldn't need to.

TL;DR someone asks a question that they really shouldn't have and we all find out why rather quickly

Holy shit, I was told this place was safe from the crazy fan base. Bye +4chan.

Sorry that this one thread soiled your view of the entire board.


Yeah good going Genome, you lost us another customer! Any more stunts like that and I'm taking you off the force!!

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>this thread

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