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File: 128091254773.png-(424.32KB, 720x480, suki.png)
84596 No.84596
Ok the one thing that has really disturbed me about the Boiling Rock.(its wasn't a bad episode it was probably one of the best episodes of the season) Why was Suki in a male prison?

161 posts omitted. Last shown. Expand all images
No.85665
File: 128258420362.jpg-(61.22KB, 570x348, I-am-Captain-Planet.jpg)
85665
>>85662

No.85668
File: 128259148256.jpg-(22.63KB, 400x300, heman.jpg)
85668
>>85662

No.85670
Interesting, very interesting.
I can not say I did not enjoy Suki's story and her new outfit and would not want more.
Unlike Katara's story which was like Mai's fate in Lake Laogai an example of massive fan disservice and appalled me to no end.
The same applies to a lesser degree to Toph's story.

No.85674
You all realise that should this thread be deleted, I will put those pictures and stories up in every fanart thread dedicated to those specific ladies, right?

CHOOSE WISELY, ANON. KEEP THE PEACE.

No.85675
>>85670

And I'd hardly call what I did to Mai a disservice. And I haven't finished yet!

No.85676
>>85675

Yes, we, reader still do not know much about Mai's post-brainwashing **shiver** 'task'.

No.85677
>>85676

It's interesting that you liked Suki's story but didn't like Katara's though; Toph's too. I mean, in none of these is brainwashing or mind-alteration undertaken. The only difference between Suki and Katara is that Suki still has a reason to want to break free; and from the narrative its apparent that she is also the one being more conditioned than Katara within her own station.

Toph, on the otherhand, is struggling with a more natural and personal problem, and has been emotionally blackmailed into the service she now resides in rather than through simple 'force', due to the fact her job is unique. It's likely she never really put up too much of a fuss at any point because of that fact.

In summation, their mental states are more what they're doing to themselves in these situations than what someone is overtly doing to them. They are after the FUNCTION of the tasks, not changing the way the people who provide that function feel about it. To simplify it; they don't care how Suki feels about pulling carraiges so long as she pulls them, and so have made no effort to attack her mind over it.

...Yet.

No.85678
Katara is reduced to an exposed object with a number.
Suki is less broken and is treated by the girl at least as pet who still deserves some dignity.
More condition in Suki's case does not change that Suki is still one level above Katara who has resigned to her fate.

No.85680
>>85678

But it was Katara resigned herself to her fate, and that makes all the difference.

Besides, I'm quite convinced that she could be knocked out of that funk if she was just given a little something to hope for. Suki has the hope of freeing her arms, and that's what's keeping her going, for some part. It's just that there's no-one to pep-talk Katara in the palace, and no forseeable future or hope therein. 'Least not at that point in the story.


Personally, I think Toph's in the most danger, as, in the event that everyone is freed, she's going to have the hardest time reajusting, both physically from being entombed for so long, and mentally from her warping perception of the world and herself in regards to it. Katara, by contrast, should make a good comeback.

No.85683
>>85677
>>85680
...But none of that makes the scenarios un-fucked-up. Suki's is just the least fucked up. Even ignoring the psychological aspects.

No.85685
>>85683

I wasn't arguing that, was I? I'm just saying that the difference between Katara and Suki's situations is largely down to their respective attitudes, not their respective positions.

Though the fact that it's fucked-up that they remain useful and not rotting in prison is somewhat amusing. I guess it's all down to the attire, isn't it?

No.85686
>>85685
I'm just trying to explain why Leserlink would say what he said, which was that Suki's story was okay but the others were just uuugh.

No.85687
>>85685
Also,
>Though the fact that it's fucked-up that they remain useful and not rotting in prison is somewhat amusing.
I don't think I need to explain that people, while generally unopposed to incarceration, have a problem with slavery. There's a profound difference between one (taking away someone's freedom and removing them from society) and the other (taking away someone's freedom and treating them like a thing).

No.85689
>>85687

Modern sensibilities. I'm pretty sure we still have prisoners doing and making shit these days too.

Though yes, I suppose if given the choice, Suki WOULD prefer to not pull around the people who had captured her in carriages. But eh, dem's da breaks if you get caught!

No.85690
>>85686

I'm also equally sure that Suki's predicament was more tolerable because it gave the impression that she was still essentially 'Suki', while Katara's didn't seem to be Katara anymore and Toph was slipping into a weird human/building blend of a persona. So it wasn't down to the fucked-up, but indeed down to the psychology.

I mean, judging the pictures just on their content, and they're all as bad as each other.

No.85691
>>85689

Bullshit, "modern sensibilities."

Slaves in ancient times were treated as animals or barely civilized humans, but we put them to fucking *practical* work. Rome wasn't built in a day, but it sure as shit was built by slaves.

Shit, let's use an in-show example, the Fire Nation during the course of the actual series used Earthbenders as slaves on a metal facility to forge iron.

Even the sexual aspects of this? Hell, most of the time, I think people in their respective civilizations wouldn't even rape their slaves, they saw it as unclean. Concubines were at least still citizens, or of similar nationality as citizens, they were just dirt fucking poor, or couldn't marry for whatever reason, they weren't *slaves.*

Nowhere in history can we account for people being tied up half-naked in pony-bondage outfits and used as living tables, or locked in a fucking standing coffin.

No.85692
>>85691

I think that's why I said it's the attire. But to address the specific points...well, Toph's restraints are necessary, as shown with King Bumi. Katara's restraints are also necessary, though obviously the nude parts are just there for show (which is also part of the point regarding superiority).

Suki's the odd one out, being that I'm sure they have serviceable ponies already. Again though, it could just be a power-display by the rich and the handsome. It isn't like slaves haven't been used for entertainment purposes before.

Also note than in none of them or the stories do they get raped. They just look rapeable. Hmm...might class Toph as machine-raped though, I think that's fair; in which case isn't that terrible?

No.85693
>>85689
Modern prisoners are obliged to make themselves useful through menial labor, but they're still recognized as human beings. They're just paying back the debts to society that they incurred upon themselves by committing crimes. They're not treated like animals or appliances. Some historical cases of slavery, such as in the Roman Empire, followed similar principals.

Talk about cultural relativism all you like, but I hold that sin begins when you start treating people like things. GRANNY WEATHERWAX TAUGHT ME THAT AND NOTHING YOU CAN SAY WILL CHANGE MY MIND.

>>85690
>I mean, judging the pictures just on their content, and they're all as bad as each other.
Look at Toph. Look at her. Is that really on the same level as ponygirl stuff? There's really no difference between her and the average ICS girl.

No.85695
>>85693

Heh, I did actually write 'With Toph a little ahead' originally, but then deleted it. I guess you think it's bad too, eh?

Don't worry; I'm sure in the end, after she becomes the Palace, she'll be able to make little Toph-Avatars out of the floor to walk around as! Won't that be good?

No.85696
>>85695
Stop mocking me.

No.85697
>>85696

No mockage intended.

I still find it odd that Pony Suki is 'acceptable', though, all because she has a handler who treats her nicely, as if she were a prize mare. In some ways I dare say that it might be more damaging than not being 'treated' at all. After Toph, I see Suki having the hardest time readjusting because of such kindness.

It also suggests that it's more okay to treat a person as a pet than as a prized object, or possession; like a car. It isn't any better; if you're not treating a person AS a person, then it's all bad. Equally. Isn't a pet just a 'thing' people have anyway?

I'll stop there and let the pet-lovers have their say now, about 'another member of the family' and all that rot.

No.85698
....I demand Mai.

...

...I am a horrible person. ;_;

No.85700
>>85698

Well you're not getting any; in this ideal world of Fire Nation supremacy, she's sitting pretty.

...I guess she is the one other girl would something like this COULD happen to though. Narratively speaking.

No.85701
>>85697
>No mockage intended.
Maybe it's because text can't convey sarcasm, but when you say things like, "Isn't that terrible?" and, "Won't that be good?" it feels like you're adding a roguish wink and tip of the hat to these scenarios. Unless that's genuine revulsion at the idea of Toph's rape and true belief that some manner of pseudo-freedom is enough to really lighten her situation, then you're making light of these stories and mocking my reaction to them.

>Isn't a pet just a 'thing' people have anyway?
If your neighbor smashes in the windshield of his convertible with a baseball bat, you think, "Man, what a nutjob." If he does the same to his golden retriever...

>>85698
She's Fire Nation nobility and thus it makes no sense; moving on.

No.85702
>>85701

Well alright, maybe SOME hat-tipping is going on then if you're putting it like that, but it was tongue-in-cheek; I doubt that if she could do that it would actually appease you any. Might appease HER, but she's probably not exactly Toph by that point either.

>If your neighbor smashes in the windshield of his convertible with a baseball bat, you think, "Man, what a nutjob." If he does the same to his golden retriever...

I'd...also think he's a nutjob?

Thing is, I'm sure in this scenario that Azula would care a lot more if Toph got damaged or hurt than if Suki or Katara did, simply because she's a unique and prized possession while Trays and Ponies are ten-a-penny. And Toph is the most possession-y out of all of them.

No.85703
My cat is my family. He's my pet as much as I am a pet to him, actually. It's all about getting in the mind of the animal to understand the underlying instincts that motivate behavior. So I'm against the idea that pets are "things" any more than ourselves are "things".

My cat started learning from me when I learned how cats communicate. People call me the cat whisperer.

No.85704
>>85702
>I'd...also think he's a nutjob?
I think that the average person would want to give him a taste of his own medicine, or at least report him to the police. There are laws against that shit, you know. Even though a pet is someone's property, they are required to treat it well.

And Azula being a psychopath with warped values isn't really that big of a factor here. Suki's new role is that of something with an intrinsically higher value than Katara or Toph (especially Toph), so she is perceived as getting a better deal.

No.85705
>>85704

I would refute that Suki's position is of an intrinsically higher value than Toph's, and state that your comparison of a car to a dog is a faulty one.

I refute this because the maximum penalty on animal cruelty in the UK is 6 months of Hard Labour and a 25 pound fine. The maximum sentence for theft or destruction of property is life imprisonment.

Toph, being of unique importance, is in a position worth intrisically more than Suki, as the Mona Lisa is worth more than some generic pony. So on those grounds, Suki is not getting a 'better deal' and is considered more expendable.

Katara might be boned though.

No.85707
>>85705
>The maximum sentence for theft or destruction of property is life imprisonment.
That refers to someone else's property. You can mess up your own shit as much as you want without fear of retribution (though your methods may get you in trouble for disturbing the peace or something, depending on where you do it).

No.85708
>>85707

Hmm, a fair point. Though I'm sure that no-one would object if Azula wailed on Suki either, you understand.

They're all equally enslaved afterall. Possessions. It's just Suki has a few more people buffering her; which doesn't make up for her lack of importance. No-one other than the littlest of people care about the welfare of Suki. Azula cares about the health of Toph. Even if it's just in a 'car maintenance' kind of way. And in terms of law and value and healthcare, Toph's out ahead. I'm equally sure that she has sympathies with the servant(s) who come to feed her and polish her, as Suki does with her handler.

No.85709
>>85708
I refer you back to my previous statement: >>85704

It's not about how Azula and her servants treat them, it's about the degree of value traditionally associated with their respective roles. "She treats me like a pet," though bad, sounds better than, "She treats me like an appliance."

No.85714
>>85709

In which case, this is all down to flawed human thinking. Who cares what you are treated like? It all comes down to how well you are treated within those parameters. You think Suki, overall, gets treated better than Toph?

Actually, no, that isn't really the point I want to make (though I still consider it a valid one). More...is Suki's position more ENVIABLE than Toph's? I think that is what this comes down to. And is it right to believe that Suki's position is more enviable than Toph's, because she gets to trot around? I realise most people would say 'yes', because her position seems to be more free, but...it's an illusion of freedom. A very cloying, very tricky illusion, that's easy to fall under with the right kind of treatment. Hell, Suki HAS fallen under it and doesn't even realise it.

...No. No, it's not any better. Not really. It just seems more appealing on the surface; if you don't think about it too hard. I mean, alright, so she acts nice and becomes a racing horse. You think she's going to be able to escape then? Truly? That no-one in the stables or anything will have thought of ways that they could use their arms without increasing chances of escape? And that's not taking into account what happens how adjusted to the program and her treatment Suki might have gotten. What about when she gets older and can't run so fast? What if she gets sick or injured?

Now, consider Toph's position. Yep, her current one seems to suck, but long-term prospects are favourable. Much moreso than Suki's.

Too much knee-jerkin' in favour of the one who seems more 'human'. It's all equally bad, the 'compromise' position is just putting rose-tinted glasses on things. But then, that's what people want, isn't it?

Ah, humanity...

No.85715
>>85714
Hey, I'm just trying to explain why someone would think Suki got the better deal. It's not entirely rational, but it's a reason. People often judge things by how they appear on the surface, and sometimes maintain their biases even when they've been proven wrong. And really, all Leserlink was saying was that he liked the Suki fic more because the others were simply creepier. I was addressing why he probably thought that. Yes, it all comes down to superficial differences. So what? It's like you're saying, "He favors grape popsicles over cherry ones, even though they have the same nutritional value. Ah, humanity..."

This probably sounds confused as hell; I'm having a hard time expressing my thoughts right now.

No.85716
>>85715

I don't think either of us are having much luck conveying what we mean. It's a difficult subject; maybe because it isn't usually discussed with this much detail. Normally you're lucky to get past 'It's creepy' or 'It's hot'.

I guess what I'm saying is...to borrow your example, 'The grape popsicles look and taste better, but the cherry ones are a little better for you.' Or the cherry ones come with fre healthcare. Or something.

And I think the rest of the logic can be thought-out from that. I'm not refuting the facts; I'm just questioning the logic behind the thoughts.

No.85719
>>85716
I'm saying there isn't much logic behind them, at least compared to emotion. The idea of being turned into an appliance is more distasteful than that of being turned into a pet. How it works out in practice is irrelevant.

To continue the metaphor, "Cherry popsicles may be better for you, but I still don't like them as much as the tastier grape ones."

No.85720
>>85719

I think the problem here may be that...we never had a problem in the first place. You're saying 'They think x' and I'm saying 'Yes and they shouldn't.'

I never was truly baffled as to why people favoured Suki's predicament, I was just interested (and maybe a little disappointed) regarding the thought being put behind the idea. You say it's because her position looks more appealing? That's fine. That's an opinion, and a valid one to have. I'm just saying it isn't more appealing. And I, at least, am treating that as fact.

No.85721
>>85720
Let's try to put the situation in context.

This is all about fetishes. Specifically, a combination of the slavery/dehumanization/mindbreak/whatever fetishes. The fact that someone (namely, you) finds this subject matter sexually arousing is the only reason that these stories exist. They wouldn't have been written otherwise. Their content makes no logical or narrative sense unless we assume that it was generated for the purpose of titillation.

Thus, the degree to which the stories correspond with the reader's own fetishes is the deciding factor of their individual appeal. Leserlink's BDSM tastes made the Suki story quite accommodating to him, but they did not extend to the Katara and Toph stories. Thus, the latter two are less appealing to him.

Pornography is usually rated in terms of how well it arouses the reader; implications concerning the long-term social mobility of the characters are generally a much lower priority.

And on a personal note, none of these stories did anything for me. I'm no prude; I've fapped repeatedly to a story about a man reaching third base with a mantis-headed insectoid woman. But plots like these just make me go no no no whyyy because I'm moderately empathic and the imagery's about as sexy as a mailbox because I like ladies with facial features. Just my two cents.

No.85723
>>85721

Genome I'm sure you're being very clear about whatever it is you're talking about (which I presume is 'why Leserlink thinks one is hot and one is not), but I just have no idea how it relates to what I am saying at this point in time.

I wrote a whole page of stuff down detailing my thoughts on this for this reply; but you wouldn't get it, so I'm going to try and shear it down to a few sentences.

...Suki is no better off than Katara or Toph, psychologically and in-scenario.
It APPEARS that she is, due to her still appearing to be Suki. But it is not the case.
However, because of this appearance, and the fact that the greater chunk of the eroticism relies on empathising with the characters (YOU WA SHOCK), she seems more tolerable. This, I posit, is not a nice thing to think, and should be pondered upon by all who think it (read: those who find Suki's predicament hot, and the others not)

Or Leserlink likes ponies and just takes it on imagery alone like you, and not the way the characters <i>react</i> to the imagery, which is where the fun truly lies. Pretty sure he likes to see the fight though.

I've a lot more to say about things like why I wrote this the way I did, the 'why' it was set up and how the whole thing ticks and why it ticks the boxes for some and not for others, but...that would take pages and pages of writing, and you don't really care enough to hear the reasons behind WHY something like this is appealing to people or why it gets written or not. So I'll just leave it off here. For now.

No.85724
File: 128263555218.jpg-(21.28KB, 342x457, make it go away.jpg)
85724
Don't you people have anything better to do than this?

No.85725
File: 128263607381.png-(69.67KB, 250x211, nOPE1.png)
85725
>>85724

No.85726
can somebody do a TL;DR version of this thread

No.85732
File: 12826462585.jpg-(18.57KB, 640x480, beastboysfetish.jpg)
85732
>>85726

No.85735
>>85723
Don't worry, I'll keep my reply succinct.

>However, because of this appearance, and the fact that the greater chunk of the eroticism relies on empathising with the characters (YOU WA SHOCK), she seems more tolerable. This, I posit, is not a nice thing to think, and should be pondered upon by all who think it (read: those who find Suki's predicament hot, and the others not)

>Or Leserlink likes ponies and just takes it on imagery alone like you, and not the way the characters <i>react</i> to the imagery, which is where the fun truly lies. Pretty sure he likes to see the fight though.

OPINIONS

I'd continue in detail but hopefully I shouldn't need to.

No.85736
>>85726
TL;DR someone asks a question that they really shouldn't have and we all find out why rather quickly

No.85739
Holy shit, I was told this place was safe from the crazy fan base. Bye +4chan.

No.85740
>>85739
Sorry that this one thread soiled your view of the entire board.

No.85762
>>85740

Yeah good going Genome, you lost us another customer! Any more stunts like that and I'm taking you off the force!!

No.85763
File: 128269863063.jpg-(11.70KB, 290x218, 125020587931.jpg)
85763
>>85762

No.85764
File: 12826994439.jpg-(27.87KB, 500x375, The Masterful thumbs.jpg)
85764
>>85763

No.85777
File: 128274398416.jpg-(13.94KB, 200x238, rocco.jpg)
85777
>this thread



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