>>59413
Personally, I don't think so. And there is nothing canon to support it either, since the only shown similarities between Space and Void are the symbols. And if you want to go into that, well, explain the similarities between Breath, Life and Hope.

Like
>>59409
said, to me, Void is about perception and concealment. I see it more as the antipode of Light. Both Heroes of Light have at some point had the ability to see through solid objects, used this power on the Cueball to disastrous results and took great interest in shaping their session using sight-based mediums. While this doesn't mean that Light is inherently connected with Seeing, the two Heroes of Light we know about share that theme.

>>59415
If you subscribe to the Heart representing truth idea, Void being perception also locks in Equius and Nepeta's titles as complimentary. Lalonde and DS too, if we're right about them being the Heroes of Void and Heart. Those character connections make me think Void and Heart are more related to each other than Void and Space, symbols be damned.

Alright then, I'll tell him he's wrong and needs to rethink his character. Perhaps convince him to change Ezra to the Space player or something. Thanks for all the help, I wasn't sure about what he was telling me about.

Well I told him what you said about Ezra, but he said he was going to keep him the way he is. He just doesn't see why the void player just has to be about nothing but blocking sight. And he didn't think it sounded like the Thief of Space type abilities.

Plus he still wants the horrorterrors conection to his powers, and he can't do that while being the space player. What does this mean about him?

It means he's stubborn and likes his headcanon more than stuff supported by actual canon, so it's pointless to say anything to him. He will be sad when Void is confirmed as what we said and not as a class that can shoot "dense void fragments." Because, like we said, direct manipulation of the physical world is Space territory. Void is not like that, not from what we've seen.

Void powers have the potential to be really cool. It can't just be an anti-scrying shield, because all three Void players have that as a low-level passive ability; there is more to it than that, but the powers they get later on are much more likely to deal with the mental or metaphysical.

And teleporting, at least, is definitely Space. Jade said so. So he's wrong there.

If he is so attached to this power he made up, why doesn't he give it to his Space player character, and give Ezra something else? He can still keep his horrorterror link and everything--and honestly? I feel the way it was described in >>59409 fits a lot better with tentacled nightmare beasts than your friend's version. Plus, powers don't make the character; they are just an accessory. What I am saying, essentially, is that a black purse would look better on Ezra than blue, or if he really wants a blue purse, he ought to find one that is a different shape. If he does not understand that it's not actually a super huge deal to switch it around a bit, than there is no hope for him.

Well I can sort of sympathise since there's just SO MUCH we don't know about the different classes/ability sets and thier powers, and how different combinations affect those powers.
I'd have the opposite problem from them, being so wracked by indecision about trying to make a kid but not having thier abilities being too canon breaking that I'd have trouble making one.

>>59426
I'll agree with you there, so much of it is open that there are bound to be billions of ideas and opinions out there, and the only way to know who is truly right is if Hussie gave out information on what every class could do...

Like, when I heard theif of space I was thinking something like a chimera or Naraku, able to steal bits and peices of other things and make himself stronger.
Wait, what does the4 word Bane mean again?

Unbeknownst to the Troll players, the Alternian Empire wasn't doing too well at the time of the Sgurb session and wasn't long for the world.

To put it more blatantly, the Alternian empire was in dire straits at the time we see the twelve trolls.

That 'Meet-greet-leave-subjugate-fleet-arrives-later' routine had become fairly common knowledge amongst the polities around the borders of the empire and by that time, the Flagship was generally greeted with open gunports rather than arm-analogs, especially in the rich and star dense coreward sectors. This forced the proverbial to hunt further afield for easier prey, out amongst the sparse and resource-barren star clusters of the galactic rim.

The nature of these conquests-few, far between and generally comparitively poor in spoils-created difficult to defend borders and stretched her fleets and armies even when they engaged in the outright sack of worlds (where taking and holding territory was eschewed in favor of carrying off every commodity of value ranging from exotic tech to people to what refined and raw resources were worth the trouble of hauling lightyears off to the core worlds and then destroying what couldn't be carried away) to well beyond its effective limits-something which her kinds' foes, which were multitudinous and exceedingly angry (with reason) by then, would be exploiting for all that it was worth.

The Empire was bleeding resources, personnel, treasure and territory from every direction and was taking in far fewer worlds through colonization and conquest than were lost to capture and bombardment and rebellion. It might not have happed within the lifespan of all but the higher castes, but a collapse was an event that was in sight. The same factors that made the empire vulnerable to the Reckoning also made it vulnerable to more mundane threats.

An overstretched fleet meant that while the empire had more battlegroups than any 8 or more of its' foes put together, it couldn't muster any more than a fraction of that strength to handle incursions, let alone commerce raiding and independant piracy.

If Feferi and co had managed to get their coup off the ground-not a guarantee (given the nature of the empire and it's counterinsurgency specialists, even with the high probability of Gl'bgolyb siding with her rather than the Condesce), there might not have been that much left of the empire for her to inherit and it likely wouldn't be in good enough shape for her to try and carry out reforms, as the rebellion would likely end up weakening the empire futher-an event that would almost without a doubt be seized upon by the circling foes of the Empire, each and every one of them seeking their proverbial 0.45359237 kilograms of flesh. She'd either end up presiding over the fall of her race's empire or end up turning into Condesce II trying to keep it together.

TL;DR: Trolls were fucked, even without the meteor bukkake.

Also, Seadwellers die in freshwater, like fish.

>All twelve are killed but the Predicant Scholar himself, forcing a showdown.
>Predicant Scholar
>PS
UU and Exile!Problem Sleuth will fight against each other in the Problem Sleuth 2/Complacency of the Learned Intermission. Calling it now.

The Sufferer's Great Expletive was "FUCK YOU, CLOWN"
http://everything2.com/title/The+%2522Fuck+you%252C+clown%2521%2522+story

That wasn't some doomed timeline God Tier Karkat we saw in Sleepwalk.

It was The Signless from the Ancestors' initial session.

It's important to remember that the Trolls as we know of them really are R-Trolls.

>>60610
IMPOSSIBLE. No Righteous Leggings.
Then again, maybe he donned them at some point afterward. :v

Anyway, reposting from >>60539 'cuz it was already in autosage and I'll forget otherwise. Since Rose and Dave have been dead for quite some time, and yet somehow they're still famous reclusive artists, Dirk and Roxy have been ghostwriting new installments for a living. Dirk does CotL, and Roxy SBaHJ. (She tries to craft a legitimate masterpiece, but the drunken scribbles are really all she can pull off.)

>>60611
You're thinking of the wrong guy. The Sufferer with the leggings never played SBURB.

>>60612
Oh, dammit. Right. They reset.
Still, we just might find that certain aspects persist from session to session; depends on whether or not Hussie cares enough about the joke to keep it.

Colonel Sassacre is Lord English.

That's why Jake English has the surname he does, because Alpha Jade was raised by him and given the same name.

There have been two fights between Bro/Dirk and "the Hero of Light" and Jack. There will be a final round, with the combatants being Dirk and Vriska's corpse, being manipulated by Dirk's flashstep puppet technique. It will land the killing blow on Bec Noir.

Dirk's entry item will be a cruxite orange

he will be unable to pick it up and use it

>>61187
He could just use FRUIT to pick it up, rhyiming it in the column with a shoe in it (changing the shoe to boot)

>>61202
But DEW doesn't rhyme with BOOT.
Nor can any other phrasing for MOUNTAIN DEW that I can think of right now, but I'm kinda half-asleep atm, so maybe one's staring me in the face or something.

>>61204
depending on where he got it, it could be SWEET LOOT.

Jack will order DD to climb onto the Derse sign and hide behind the "D" with his sniper rifle in order to kill Dirk or Roxy.

However he won't be able to bring himself to pull the trigger because you're not allowed to shoot from behind the D after a scratch

Found this on tumblr. I like it.

>I personally would place Gl’bgolyb in the bathypelagic or abyssopelagic zone - that is to say, the midnight zone. Zero light. This is where bioluminescence happens and shit gets extremely weird. That seems appropriate for Gl’bgolyb! I think the twilight zone is still too accessible a place to find her; she seems to feed primarily on whale falls in the form of lusii that Feferi and Eridan fetch her, rather than what she catches herself. (bitches lovve wwhales.) In other words, she’s a detritivore, which is practically what the midnight zone is all about.

>I too am pretty sure that Feferi cannot/does not actually tow whales around. It doesn’t matter how strong she is, I don’t think her size allows her to overcome that kind of resistance. I could do more research to make sure, but that involves math and fluid dynamics and I cannot be bothered right now. However, accompanying the carcass at least partway as it falls and defending it against other scavengers is highly possible! (And since it takes days for a whale to fall - 100m per day, to depths of 1000m-5000m - she would undoubtedly gorge on it and any would-be scavengers, then ascend using the energy from that food.)

>But we still have Feferi traversing from the midnight zone and up, meaning she undergoes extreme pressure and temperature variation.

>As for pressure, I’ve done some research, and I know that it not only can be done, it IS done. Several species move between zones, deeper during the day and higher up during the night. Sloane’s viperfish, cookiecutter sharks, kitefin sharks, grenadiers, some sea cucumbers, great whites - realmonstrosities.com has some awesome charts that show what depths these are found in, and some of them go many places and do many things indeed. So it CAN be done, and presumably Feferi has the appropriate modifications to do so. I’m very frustrated that I have yet to find out HOW, but that is a matter of additional research!

>One thing that seems likely is a large, oil-filled liver. No swim bladder, because the effort to keep something like that inflated at those pressures is considerable and not really worth it. This would put her in the realm of sharks, who also have no swim bladders and are neutrally buoyant (IE they’ll just hang there in the water neither floating nor sinking). Many deep sea creatures try to keep themselves approaching the same density as water to avoid pressurization issues, so Fef may be a little squishy around the edges, with muscles closer to the core of her body, again like some sharks. (This is no matter what her actual weight or body structure.) Her bones may be similar to whale bones by being stuffed full of fats and lipids to reduce their weight, or possibly they’re lighter-weight cartilage like that employed by sharks. I personally think it would be awesome if they were actually chitin, but this may not be plausible. I love arthropod!trolls, I can’t help it.

>And now, moving on to temperature. This one I like, because I think it makes sense! In short, I think that seadwellers are coldblooded, not warmblooded. More technically, this means Feferi would likely be a heterotherm: she CAN generate her own heat, but isn’t always doing it. It’s possible that she would have rete mirabile like tuna in order to conserve body heat (veins and arteries positioned so that blood warmed by muscles goes on to warm cooler blood from the heart), and/or strips of red muscle that generate heat to keep her inner bits warmer than her outer bits, like thresher sharks and great whites. (Hollow chitin bones filled with rete mirabile? Thermodynamically sound or crazed, you decide!) When operating in warmer surface waters and in air, she would be the temperature of the water throughout; when diving down to Gl’bgolyb, she can generate enough heat to warm her inner bits and keep her functioning. This means that Feferi doesn’t have to use all her energy to keep herself warm throughout; it frankly wouldn’t make a difference if she were in a parka or stark naked down there. (“)(—EY!”) Her outermost bits will be the temperature of the water regardless. This would be something like gigantothermy (again great whites!), where the larger an animal is, the easier it is for it to keep its core warm.

>As for her hair and clothes, I wept quietly to myself when I thought about what long, fine filaments are used for in sea creatures, because they are filtration devices and traps. You heard it here first: Feferi eats what gets caught in her hair underwater. The Condesce undoubtedly has small shoals of fish that live in her hair permanently and are snacked upon.

>>62705
hey, you know, you can link to the fucking posts and give credit to the people who wrote it

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17857279/biology%20bullshit.png
http://siadea.tumblr.com/post/15355706948/nothing-left-to-do-but-dance-othartryggvassen-said
http://luzerna.tumblr.com/post/15416362804/siadea-nothing-left-to-do-but-dance

*Facepalm* knew I had forgotten something.

Also, found something else while digging about.
http://luzerna.tumblr.com/post/17355785237/corvidcipher-asked-you-i-assume-troll-biology
This is my headcanon on carapace biology now.

I don't know why this suddenly occurred to me, but recall the little "prophecies" you could read from each of the kid's tapestries in Seer: Descend. Grabbing from the wiki:


>JOHN: "THEY WAIT FOR HE WHO WOULD EXTINGUISH CANDLES WHILST FANNING A FIRE."
>JADE: "THEY WAIT FOR SHE WHO WOULD THAW SOLID FLESH AND RESOLVE IT INTO A DEW."
>ROSE: "THEY WAIT FOR SHE WHO WOULD BREED LILACS OUT OF THE DEAD LAND."
>DAVE: "THEY WAIT FOR HE WHO WOULD DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT WHILST THE PIMP'S IN THE CRIB."

Hussie has been known to leave little tid bits lying around that foreshadow things far into the future. These quotes were also scattered about Homestuck in each of the kids' "going outside to stare at/listen to the weather" scenes.

Prophecies, especially fictional ones, are often vague intentionally, to be interpreted and reinterpreted as things move on. Now that we know a few more things than we did during "Seer: Descend", I'd like to pose a few theories about what they mean, and open the floor to further possible interpretations.

John: This is one of the more obvious ones, and for that reason I wouldn't be surprised if there were yet more meaning to it. This could be referring to the fact that John is the one who initiates and sees through the Scratch. He "extinguishes the candles" not only of the myriad monsters arrayed before him when he began the scratch, but also the candle of the Beta session. In doing so he fanned the fire of the Scratch, allowing the old session to be destroyed while a new one was forged. Which segues neatly into the next one.

Jade: This one's obvious meaning was apparent once we knew a bit more about Jade's land. It almost explicitly refers to the Forge and thawing LOFAF. But perhaps also metaphorically, Jade is the one who "thawed" the rest of their session, planets and Battlefield included, out of their frozen places in the Beta session. As things stand the Beta session could be thought of as a "dew", ready to either be made into something new or perhaps to fertilize some place barren. Which also segues neatly into the next one.

Rose: We now know that the teen's Alpha session is practically a "dead land". There are no prototyping towers. The battlefield they have will always remain a simple 3x3 chess board with the kings in stalemate. Certainly not fertile ground for a new universe to take root in. And yet, the Seer of Light is almost certainly going to be critical in bringing about a favorable resolution of events in the Alpha session. Without her guidance, I'm pretty sure no one would know what precisely to do with everything once they arrive in the Alpha session. They also certainly would never have even gotten to the dead land they are hoping to breed lilacs out of without her help.

Dave: This one is pretty vague, and also apparently mostly a joke, which in a way deflects speculation about it. But by metagaming, in addition to in story evidence (Handmaid and Condesce), we know by word-of-Huss that "pimp" is certainly one of the big themes Lord English has going for him. We also know that Time is certainly Lord English's domain. As such, if the Pimp were to find his way into the Crib (the Alpha session, where we know his is not YET), I can guarantee you that Dave, as the local Time master, would need to Drop Something Like It's Hot. Maybe some Ill Beats, both musical and physical. Either way, when the final show down with Lord English happens, I can guarantee you that Dave will have some type of critical role in how it plays out.

There's been a lot of Dave/Lord English stuff going on.

It's also worth mentioning that when you put the R-Kids together with the current surviving Kids/Trolls, you get one of all 12 Hero classes.

Except Time, which you get two of. Aradia and Dave.

And given how certain Aradia is of being done with dying, and how much death plays a role in her personality...

...I'm guessing she's the hero of Time who gets out alive.

>>62854
She decided to stay in the afterlife, though. With seemingly on way of reaching any real universe. She's as good as dead.

Why did she do it, anyway? She would've had access to the dream bubbles from anywhere in paradox space, she didn't have to stay.

>>62854
On the other hand, for all her talk of being done with dying she's pretty much indistinguishable from being dead right now, what with her staying in the bubbles.

>>62854

There are also two space players right now.

>>62856
>>62857
I'd construe it less as being dead and more as being a psychopomp, which, really, isn't that bad a happy ending for someone who likes death but would rather not experience it again herself.

Besides, she's not really severed from the living world - she can still appear in the dreams of living people, if Vriska's interaction with WV is any indication. Which might be useful if, in her exploration of the dreams of the dead, she discovers some info that her friends would want to know.

>>62860
oh god kan OH GOD NO

>>62884
hey let's be real for a second here

she's already dead

there's only so many endings you can get when you have a gigantic hole through your abdomen, and living a full life happily ever after with your human waifu is not one of them

>>62892
She's a 'vampire' isn't she? There's nothing stopping an undead from doing so.

>>62895

Not in this thread, but I felt this belonged here moreso than the general thread. To answer your question:
>wait, so who was the Betty Crocker that gave jane her surname if the condesce hadn't arrived yet?
I'm going to throw out my current best guess as to the Condesce's personal timeline.


The Condesce arives at Post-Apocalypse Alternia, fights and kills the Handmaid, becomes Lord English's agent.

Somehow she jumps to the Kids' Beta Universe, around Colonel Sassacre, and is present while Nanna is being raised.

Somehow before the Beta Universe ends due to Bec Noir's Red Miles, she jumps into the Teen's Alpha Session long before any of the players enter, then kills and usurps the Black Queen.

This is when all the nastiness is set up. With essentially unlimited access to the Teen's Alpha Universe's timeline, she is free to set up and manipulate unfair time shenanigans throughout history at will to set up for her eventual take over. To help, she has an infinitely faithful inside agent, who will be discussed momentarily.

The time for the Teens to enter the game nears, so she begins stepping up her plans and sends assassins to the Teen's Dreamselves. We know that as of now (3/8/12) all but one of them (Jake) are still definitely alive.

The Teens finish entering the Session, and things begin to go down. Once the Reckoning begins (she will have to get the White Scepter from the White Queen), the Condesce has replaced all the meteors with an invasion force of ships and drones, which all fly through the Skaian Defense Portals, ready to conquer the soft underbelly of human civilization that the Condesce has bred throughout history.

The "meteor" that is aimed for Jane's house which starts the Reckoning from Alpha Earth's perspective is her flagship, the Battleship Condesce. She is not aboard, knowing that her inside agent on Earth will know what to do.

The Condesce remains in the Alpha Session until some point near its "end". The only definite future event we have had told to us by UU is that at some point Roxy will Black Out the entire Alpha Session. Probably some time not long after this the Condesce sends herself through a Defense Portal to an early point in Alpha Earth's History, likely around Colonel Sassacre's era, but possibly farther back.

Her Imperial Condescension is her own inside agent on Alpha Earth. After all, who else would be more trustworthy with such an important task than herself? Especially when she has already done all the coordinating and assisting of herself from the Session "before" hand. This is why Jane has been set up so strongly in favor of Crocker Corp. The Condesce locks this shit down in a stable time loop harder than Dave, and when her Flagship comes through above Jane's house on 11/11/11, she is ready to finally take the helm and implement her perfect take over.

At least, that's how I would do it.

>>62896
have you ever read anything about vampires that isn't twilight?

she's not going to stay a vampire forever, she's going to finish her earthly duties to her lusus and find a safe place to hatch the new mother grub that will save her species, and then she'll leave the mortal plane. and it will be okay because at least 75% of her friends are waiting for her in death anyway.

>>62904
Wat? It sounds like you're describing ghosts, they're the ones bound to earth by something left udone or whatever and then move on once its been dealt with. Vampires continue to exist for no particular reason and usually prey on the living.

>>62848
>Dave: This one is pretty vague, and also apparently mostly a joke, which in a way deflects speculation about it. But by metagaming, in addition to in story evidence (Handmaid and Condesce), we know by word-of-Huss that "pimp" is certainly one of the big themes Lord English has going for him. We also know that Time is certainly Lord English's domain. As such, if the Pimp were to find his way into the Crib (the Alpha session, where we know his is not YET), I can guarantee you that Dave, as the local Time master, would need to Drop Something Like It's Hot. Maybe some Ill Beats, both musical and physical. Either way, when the final show down with Lord English happens, I can guarantee you that Dave will have some type of critical role in how it plays out.

Don't forget, one of his God-tier rungs is named "Pimpslayer."

>>62907
those statements don't lead into one another

vampire stories never have happy ends, because they are undead, and like all undead their condition will be righted by the end of the story (usually by death). the best ending one can hope for in a standard vampire tale is bittersweetness.

kanaya isn't going to be alive at the end because she will attend to her duties and then die as she was meant to. she is living on borrowed time. do you guys remember that she has a giant hole where her abdomen used to be? because she has a giant hole where her abdomen used to be. that didn't stop being a thing.

>>62931

It's hardly like Twilight is the first or only vampire story in which the vampire survives, or is a protagonist. The paranormal romance genre grew out of Anne Rice's vampire Lestat novels, which in turn owed a lot to the 1960s daytime soap 'Dark Shadows.' Paranormal romance as a formalized genre predates Twilight by over ten years (see Laurel K. Hamilton's Anita Blake novels for the official trope setter); hell, before Twilight ever came out, vampire-as-romantic hero/heroine was acceptable as a B plot in an action movie - look at the Underworld series.

I have no idea how her story is going to end, but citing vampire tropes like they're in any way monolithic sure doesn't provide any insight.

As for the hole in Kanaya's stomach, do you really think we're supposed to take that seriously as a threat? To fulfill her role, she's got to last three years minimum, so it can't be anything terribly critical.

>>62931
>do you guys remember that she has a giant hole where her abdomen used to be? because she has a giant hole where her abdomen used to be. that didn't stop being a thing.

Slick got most of his body destroyed when the universe he was in exploded. He seems to be okay though.

Mortality is dictated by the author's whim. Kanaya and Slick both suffered pretty severe damage and are alive. Vriska died instantly from a single stab wound. Jake got the shit beat out of him by a robot (incuding having his eyes slapped off his head) with no ill effect. Jaspers had a book fall on him and died.

Kanaya will die, not when her wound catches up with her or when a trope says she's supposed to, but only if/when Hussie no longer wants her in the story.

>>62953
Kanaya and Slick aren't alive. Kanaya was revived somehow and became undead, but she did die from her wound. Slick IS actually dead and only made a cameo appearance in the developer room as a joke.

No, Kanaya's not in any immediate danger from her wound because she is undead. I think the point being made here is that she can't stay that way forever, and if she does, it would be a poor storytelling decision because there was so much fanfare in the Veil deaths. What is the point of her death and quasi-resurrection if it does not foreshadow anything? A wardrobe shift and offing a minor character that could have easily been killed in a variety of other ways? There has to be more to it. If there isn't, damn that's... an objectively stupid move.

And there's the fact that she is still walking around with the hole; it never went away, because for all intents and purposes she is dead and has simply not left the mortal coil yet. Because she has one job left to do. Currently she has plot protection due to unfulfilled promises, but once she has planted her Mother Grub egg, she is likely doomed. And I think that is okay.

Guys! What if...
Now hear me out!
What if uu was Spade Slick sent to that universe by Lord English via a sendificator?

>>63030
uu likes puzzlemurders.
Slick wouldn't stand for that nonsense, he'd just cut to the chase, the chase being cutting people in this example.

>>63033
I think that the self-insert Hussie is a member of The Felt with conditional mortality living on post-scratch Mars. He was probably going to make PS 2 before winning a trip to Mars and then being inducted into the Felt. If Scratch is in that universe, Slick must have something of Hussie's to hide his existence from Scratch's omniscient gaze. English probably gets pissed off when Hussie uses his stupid comics to broadcast English's evil plans.

I'd like to know how the summoner pup8ted (got his big fancy wings)

my head cannon is that he's just got a fully grown tinkerbull-type lusus strapped to himself like a backpack. Like, as if a fully-grown tinkerbull is the same size as a baby one, but with HUGE wings. I hope this is validated by the inevitable teen-summoner.


I'd also like to know how John beat all those monsters during the EoA5 flash (they all had Bec powers, so they should have been able to warp his lava monsoons into outer space). My head cannon is that after Jade made the deal with Echidna, she and the other denizens (who make the underlings if I remember correctly) were just like "Hey, lets send this kid some fragile walking grist piñatas"

We'll see UU's session in Act 7 or in an epilogue as how a typical session would work.

>>64056
Isn't pupating when they just go from being grubs to wrigglers?

>>64056
Not all underlings get all prototypes. But even if they did, in one of the walkaround flashes you can fight a Uranium imp. It teleports and is really tough, but it's killable.

My take is that either they have a limit on how much they can call on his powers, or they're just not as experienced at using his powers as Bec himself is.

Or in video game terms, it could be that they essentially got the OP First Guardian Job Class, but they're still only Level 1 monsters. Jack Noir on the other hand is an endgame boss given that same job class.

if the Lord of Time is "Already Here" would the Muse of Space be "Everywhere"? It would mean that the Alt timeline Caliope that beat her brother was Paradox Space itself. and in turn mean that LE is STILL just trying to kill his sister (operating under the assumption that Caliborn is LE)

So..who thinks the troll race will go extinct?