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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

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375027 No. 375027
We're Back Baby!
367 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 376217
File 136586875830.png - (36.63KB , 153x219 , dicking the butt.png )
376217
>put a needle where I can easily find it and can't be pricked by it
>have to do something else
>it's gone now
>> No. 376220
File 136587059916.jpg - (178.83KB , 570x866 , o-KARLIE-KLOSS-570.jpg )
376220
okay here is why appropriation is not implicitly bad just the same way discrimination is not bad.

the most fundamental baseline definition of appropriation is simply taking on something from another culture or ideology and making use of it/owning it. that is not implicitly wrong. in the same way, discrimination is simply the discerning of differences between things.

our LANGUAGE for both of these words has taken on the negative context of them.

discrimination is commonly used to mean unjust discrimination, people acting on arbitrary or hateful biases which have been discerned through a discriminatory eye.

appropriation has come to mean "misappropriation". what makes misappropriation bad? well this is where the parallel ends. instead of discriminating what is good, or bad, or stereotyping, misappropriation is the act of taking a part of someone else's identity or culture in a way that is disrespectful to the nature of the thing or the group. so... okay. an idea is okay to use. ideas spread like that. so do all forms of memes, images, stories, etc. cross-cultural appropriation is not in and of itself misappropriation. what puts the "mis" into it is the lack of understanding or recognition and respect for the importance of the thing to the people who have had ownership over those cultural objects. some people get butthurt if anyone outside of their own "in group" uses these objects. chinese martial arts used to be a well kept secret from "westerners" because it was seen as giving the heart of one of their cultural masterpieces to not just outsiders but oppressors. these days, nearly anyone can be a respectable kung fu practictioner. that doesn't mean all martial artists who aren't chinese are misappropriating. the line moved. the line was different for everyone, but these days it's understood that just because a white person or black person is practicing kung fu, that doesn't mean that person is somehow defiling the thing.

now where is the line drawn? when does it go from taking on some culturally iconic thing to completely disrespecting the thing and the culture that "owns" it?

this is my personal opinion: everyone learning something for the first time will not have the full respect for the thing they're learning. they simply won't be able to give it its due respect. a lot of things that look like misappropriation to people are people still learning how to give respect to it.

analogous example of something that could be offensive but isn't. i'm asian. some nice lady from tennessee asked me what kind of "japanese" i am. i'm not japanese. she was trying to be friendly. it's fine. no harm done. i corrected her and she asked me if i at least spoke any. she wanted her son who was hanging out with us if i could practice speaking with him. i told her i don't speak any. she was disappointed, but she quickly learned that in trying to respect me and bring me into her family interactions that i wasn't what she thought i was. their taking on of japanese language or understanding of asian ethnicities wasn't sophisticated enough, but it certainly wasn't a misappropriation. just a harmless misunderstanding.

so... that's not where the line is. the line is crossed when there is a complete disregard for the power of the symbol and the power it can have for certain people to use that symbol.

let's see... what's a classic example...

see attached image.

if one recognizes the history of white oppression against native americans, one could easily say that a white person (at least of the era of active discrimination and devastating cultural annihilation) wearing this sort of thing as a fun costume is a desecration of the people they destroyed. no? please argue against this if you'd like.

now, we're separated by quite a few generations. i personally haven't put any tribes onto reservations. i haven't been raised to think of them as savages. i am aware of how many many many native american cultures there were, even if i don't know them. we have museums that try to save what little bits of these people there still are (not mis-appropriation most of the time for heaven's sake) in order to do what little we can to educate future generations of who these people were. neat. okay. so does that mean it's okay now to wear stuff like this?

... i don't think so. if it were a child who never had the opportunity to learn the power of this kind of garb (or the bastardization of it), then i wouldn't be too worried, but there's a cultural awareness that is being tapped into that says "yes, i know a little bit about these cultures and i want to take advantage of how exotic they are to us and take that power for myself. i'm going to wear it like the fur of an animal i've killed or turn something sacred to someone else into a commodity." that's where the misappropriation is.

so... much like with language, it's the intent and permission that makes all the difference. free speech is fine. that's great. but don't think that all forms of free expression, including appropriation of others' cultures, won't come with some kind of context that you need to be aware of.

now in the case of >>376200
this is just too far into the "must protect all the things" from white people. it's a fucking plant. to assume that the use of that symbol doesn't have a personal meaning to the person with the tattoo is to be unjustly discriminatory and assuming that all white people can only take on other people's cultural symbols through misappropriation.

so yeah. those are my 2 cents.

thirteen, stop being a bitch about it.
>> No. 376221
>>376217
The needle disappeared?
>> No. 376222
>>376203
Who're you trying to contact?

and uh, not to bump this old topic but uh I didn't want to ignore people who gave advice, so
>>376074
>>376088
>>376092
>>376083
>"be yourself"
I always have and intend to keep doing so. This is just further exploration of what I am, I guess? I've always had trouble putting myself in trans* peeps' shoes cause I have no idea what it's like to feel a gender. I don't feel male. I have a male's body and I'm p comfortable in it, but I mean, I don't feel male. I never have, but I used to just accept that I was without questioning it cause I'm fine with my body and it was the easiest thing to do. But I mean, I don't feel male, and I don't feel female, and the only thing that makes me feel more male than female is that I have a man's exterior and I'm pretty down with that. But I'm also down with my exterior looking feminine. My face is/was pretty androgynous and I used to have long hair when I was younger so I got called "ma'am" and "she" a lot by people who didn't know me, and I didn't care? It didn't feel any more right or wrong than being called "he." I knew who they were referring to, and I was fine with people thinking I was a lady, cause it didn't and still doesn't really matter to me.

But yeah, point is, I've always just accepted myself as being male inside and out, since I don't really dislike it, it's the easiest thing, and it doesn't really matter, but in the past year or so as I learned more about the gender/sex difference and whatnot, I've begun wondering about it, even if just for my own benefit. That's why I wished I had someone who knew about this shit to talk about it with, cause I don't know if this is how cis dudes feel or not, which means...I don't know if I'm blowing this out of proportion to be a ~special snowflake~ or if I really am genderless and some genderless dudes just don't care. But I always try to downplay stuff about me as me blowing things out of proportion, even when it's stuff like "my gallbladder is severely inflamed and full to bursting with gallstones and it's so painful I'm convulsing and retching from sheer agony." C'mon Slowpoke, it's just a pretty bad stomachache. You don't need to go to the ER just to be told "seems like you ate too fast and have a grapefruit-sized gas bubble that's passing along." (I gave in and went and they operated on me as soon as they got the scans back, it was pretty srs)
So I mean, on the one hand, I don't trust myself when I tell myself I'm making a bigger deal out of it than it is to have something unique about me, cause uh, I tell myself that about everything, including serious medical problems.
But I also don't want to start considering myself genderless when I might not be, cause that seems kind of uh, not that good, to me.
So.

Yeah. Man I've been typing for a while, I bet this is a super hard-to-read huge-ass wall of text. Sorry.
>> No. 376223
>>376217
The needle disappeared?
>> No. 376226
>>376221
>>376223
Yep. I have no idea where it is. I am now in constant fear of it being rammed into some part of my body by accident.
>> No. 376227
>>376226
ur fucked.
don't even try crawling around with scotch tape. you're just going to poke yourself in the knees.
maybe hit an artery in your thigh.
deep in your finger nails.

i'm so sorry. just move.
>> No. 376228
>>376217
Magnets?
>> No. 376229
File 136587618390.png - (277.61KB , 500x694 , slowpokeandisthisevolution.png )
376229
>>376083
also
>i don't know you. sorry. might like to.
d-doushio
>> No. 376231
There's this one asshole online who keeps trying to voice chat and facecam and ask me personal questions about my family and why I don't get along with them, and I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I'm comfortable with it. I want him to stop asking for good.
>> No. 376232
>>376231
Can't you block him?
>> No. 376233
>>376232
He guilt trips me when I ask him to go away. Says stuff like how nobody's ever been nice to him his entire life and and he's been abused and how he has no friends. I think he's just asking the wrong people. I can't be his friend even if I want to, we have nothing in common.

I don't know why even after a year or so of knowing someone, I'm only comfortable knowing their name, what they look like, and how their voice sounds if I'm really comfortable with them.
>> No. 376234
>>376233
I would have blocked him the second he didn't respect me asking him to back off, especially if he tried to make me feel bad about it.

You've asked him to stop bothering you and he hasn't. I say block him.
>> No. 376235
>>376233
>Says stuff like how nobody's ever been nice to him his entire life and and he's been abused and how he has no friends.

That is horribly manipulative.
>> No. 376236
>>376235
just be up front and talk to him about how people treat people like people. tell him alternative ways for him to act that are comfortable with you.

seriously.
>> No. 376237
>friend invites me to her burlesque show last minute
>spend three hours getting ready to go out
>First time getting gussied up in MONTHS
>do up last button on coat
>Suddenly feel exhausted, overwhelmed and no longer have any will left to do anything other than stay in

WHELP. At least I got to experiment with hair and make up a bit. It feels nice to put on pretty clothes and pretty shoes you don't normally wear...

It's probably better I stay in, I just started waist training today :/
>> No. 376239
>>376236
I'll try that. I just feel like even though I know more about him and I've known him for longer than I have some people I'm genuinely close to, I've never really felt comfortable around him. And I don't know why.
>> No. 376244
>>376222
MiG. I had a question about flying an airplane.
>> No. 376246
>>376237
are... you...
...depriving yourself of a normal stream of air...?
>> No. 376247
>>376220
Thank you for this post, I think that describes it perfectly.
>> No. 376249
Miley, hey Miley Cyrus.

Will you be in Korea this Christmas/holidaytime? Thinking about maybe going and also needed a floor to sleep on if I sleep. Could that be a thing??
>> No. 376250
>>376220
Do you mind if I screencap this?
>> No. 376251
Time it took me to get my act together enough to let myself come back here: 4 months, 14 days

I'll try to be less of a dumbfuck and incorporate more of my own voice and actual opinions.

I missed you guys. Reblogs just aren't the same.
>> No. 376253
>>376251
Welcome back.
>> No. 376255
I just sent out my first email asking one of my old professors for a letter of recommendation when I do grad school applications this fall... I graduated two years ago and I don't know if I've done all I should in the meantime and I'm so nervous :<
>> No. 376258
>>376250
no.

go.

why would i mind?
>> No. 376260
>The most popular thing you've ever done on 4chan is now equally popular on Reddit
I don't know how I feel about this.
>> No. 376262
>>376255
Heard a reply, he's sayin he'll want to do an interview before agreeing :I
>> No. 376263
>>376262
Good luck, Maritova.
>> No. 376271
I have to potential to get a real full time job in my field of interest.
Starting to feel very self conscious and anxious.
>> No. 376277
File 136601295827.gif - (322.57KB , 278x200 , thanks obama.gif )
376277
>send in undergrad thesis proposal
>"Well, you obviously found a topic that interests you, but your proposal is a bit cryptic and needs some work. You have until July 1 to revise it. Here are some things we think you should keep in mind for the revision."

I know the revision will help me write a better, more focused thesis, and I know it's not like they outright rejected it, but I can't help but feel slightly disappointed. Guess I'll have to wait a few months to register for the thesis colloquium...
>> No. 376280
there's something wild about knowing people who are hypersensitive to people's needs, motives, and subtle forms of communication.

i have a close friend, very close friend, with whom i often have to hide how tight we are. we're not doing anything inappropriate by any means, but in this day and age, open flirting, cuddling, intimacy, and affection could be misconstrued as proof of romantic advances/commitments. so... in public, especially when we're near each others' exes or her significant other, we disengage from that sort of stuff. as if we weren't as intimate.

we still connect, but we intuitively make it so that no one would even bat an eye. both of us have strong strong reads on the room, on people. we join in on conversations when people need support or perform conversation hijacking to get things into less awkward situations. we are both incredible flirts. we watch each other with what feels like hawk eye focus from as far as across the room while physically and mentally still being engaged with whoever we're with at the time. when we do interact, we act as if we were only casually friendly, never exceeding the highest level of affection that the room already offers or that we would offer to others in the room. not too many subtle secret cues. only enough to touch base. she goes off to show the same level of warmth and affection to other friends. i stimulate meaningful or fun conversations with people to get things moving and lively, dropping a few laughs here or there to spice things up. all the while, we can read all the subtext and intent of the guests just below the surface. to us, it's as if people are screaming everything they feel, their words pounding like massive hammers, while to them we become invisible (or show only as much as we want to show). everyone else who isn't quite so intuitive look to us like poker players with their whole hands showing. we pretend we're not "cheating" the game.

it can be tiresome to have to hide a benign friendship like ours, but the whole charade feels like being a spy, and it's intensely fun to play spy so long as she and i don't completely disengage, so long as we still have each others' backs.

this exact sort of thing happened at a party today. it was over at an ex's place. had to navigate some seriously dangerous social interactions with some potentially explosive people who have VERY strong and complicated attachments to my friend (and in some cases, to myself). She's a strong woman. She can take care of herself. Watching her dance is like watching a circus performer make the trapeze look like a playground. She let some people down who needed to be let down. She warmed some people up, like my ex, who needed affirmation and physical comfort. I, on the other hand, got to act as support, corroborator, and decoy. I got to comfort and entertain our somewhat less troubled friends. Lots of cuddling and subtle flirting to reassure them they are as attractive as they are and as loved as they deserve. Lots of acknowledgments of things that are important to them. Reminiscing on things they like and introducing them to things they might enjoy. I usually take the lead for the larger stuff, but like it or not, the party was centered on her (for anyone who actually noticed). Half the men were drawn to her like wolves with me occasionally stepping up as wingman to subtly return things to less uncomfortable topics or playfully redirect some inappropriate flirting into subtly analogous conversations that touch (or sometimes SCREAM) how inappropriate certain kinds of human interactions can be. Very educational. It's like the first step in a kind of social inoculation. Plant the mental seed and water it. Most of the time they don't even know we're the doctors and that we're performing surgery. Other times... when we have to and when we have enough ground... we have to strip the advancers/offenders of all power and teach them a goddamn lesson with the clinical coldness of a psychiatrist. That also happened at the party, today. A girl ran off home without saying goodbye because she had a lot to deal with. She sure did. All of this was happening in otherwise normal conversations, some slightly off to the side so as not to bother people when things got too heated.

I have to say, some people just don't seem to notice how bloody creepy or taxing they can be. They're good people. They just need to be... made aware. They don't know how much they take from others. They don't know how much we give.

And... even though my friend and I had plans to meet up immediately after, when she was about to leave, I chose to stay a bit longer. We didn't even hug goodbye. I just said that she should text me sometime. She made finger gestures with her thumbs. I nodded. Mode of communication confirmed. She went to the door. I yelled bye without looking at her, turned to see her, then locked eyes with her for a fraction of a second. It was warmest embrace that whole party. A knowing glance. A deep one. We made it through another big and potentially explosive event, and we did it with flying colors.

When she and I are alone just talking with each other, we still use pretext of "x" or "y" reason but have no need to maintain that illusion. Sure we'll do "x" or "y" when we hang out, but how often is it that anyone does things with friends because we're most interested in the event? I spent the next hour with her decompressing after all that very emotional heavy lifting. People don't know what we do for them. She was in tears. I heard her every word. She's done the same for me in the past. To those friends who don't get us, there's a "je ne sais quoi" that makes them want to keep us around. We're "fun" or "warm" or "amusing". I do try to appear that way. What they don't have words for are "intuitive", "emotionally tapped in", "gentle", "invitational", "kind beneath the surface", "inspirational".

This whole social navigation thing is not a fucking game. It's a fucking art. I wouldn't be writing here if I just wanted to brag about how close I am with this friend. I have many close friends, and I'm sure many of you do, too. This whole post is about the art of subtext and meaning in friendships. I have nowhere else to write up or share my experience and how goddamn amazing it is to finally find someone who's as adept as I am at reading people but who isn't a complete manipulative fuck. There are two kinds of people that I've seen who are this in tune with others: manipulators and protectors. We're protectors. We want to help because we care about people. We want the best for them. And we give a fucking lot to make sure their needs are met. Until we found each other, we were both exhausted. Only exhausted. Other people tapping into us until we either had to cut them off or ran ourselves into the ground with not enough being returned to us. We never ask. We don't want to burden anyone or make them do things they wouldn't already want to do, especially when it comes to loving us. The power to persuade and read makes us that much more hungry for authentic love and affection, and people can be like stone walls, even when they care.

That's why we're close. It's because all it takes for us to feel loved is the most subtle of proof. The softest touch. The briefest glance. One well timed brush of a hand or a choice word. When it's us, we're allowed to speak freely. We're allowed to not speak at all. I'm an extrovert. She's an introvert. When we're alone, we have all the space and all the company in the world, and when we're both full up, we take that energy and bring it to everyone else.

The world is full of noisy people. So very noisy. So much paint on their faces. Their lives hanging off of their clothes. And I care about so many of them. But it's so loud. Even their silence is deafening.
>> No. 376283
>>376277
Don't feel dissapointed. They almost never send those things back without criticism because that's kind of their job, and as you said, it's going to help, rather than hurt, so you'd have more reason to be disappointed if you paid for the benefit of them and they had nothing to say.
>> No. 376284
>>376280
but can you tellwhy kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

I did this for a while back in the day, but I was alone and it wrought up some really shitty feelings, and reflected more of them than I wanted. I guess you're happy, but this is a shitty person thing to do, justifiable or not.
>> No. 376285
>>376280
but can you tellwhy kids love cinnamon toast crunch?

I did this for a while back in the day, but I was alone and it wrought up some really shitty feelings, and reflected more of them than I wanted. I guess you're happy, but this is a shitty person thing to do, justifiable or not.
>> No. 376286
>>376280
What... what are you...?
>> No. 376289
>>376286
It reads a bit like a sociopath. Not a dangerous one, obviously, but a sociopath nonetheless.
>> No. 376290
File 136604160267.jpg - (123.04KB , 500x366 , predatory mimic.jpg )
376290
>>376280
You are not a protector. You and people like you comprise the majority of my mother's side of the family. I've seen people like you stripped down to what you are at your ugliest, and you're demonstrating a good deal of the symptoms that've taken me a lifetime to perceive as bad signs, and put words to what they do. You aren't as clever as you think you are, you are not beneficent in the purpose you think you're putting your 'skills' towards. To do what you so casually do to people, as benign as you think you're being about it, just makes people with functioning inhibitors feel guilty and disgusting for doing them. But not you. You take that narrative and make it self-congratulatory and put a nice positive spin on it. But people know. People know. For a psychopath, you're like a leopard kitten playing tag with a rabbit. You know it, too. You aren't a protector because you just haven't sunk the jaws down yet.
>> No. 376291
>>376289
sociopaths lack empathy. this is the exact opposite. it's having too much and trying to figure out what to do with it. sociopaths use cues to figure out the "appropriate response" , ones that makes them fit in or allow them to pretend their having authentic interactions. empathetic people feel for other people. in the end, i suppose the net result is the same, tempered response based on some kind of social input. i'd like to think what we do is authentic, but it means a lot of holding back. we're never dishonest, just withholding.

>>376286
human.

>>376285
the only way i can turn it off is when i remember that it's not my responsibility to do anything to or for anyone. that's part of what she and i had to talk about during our hour after the party. we just want to be with people. we just want to express ourselves instead of expressing how we think people need us. we don't want to keep this up. it just feels like we have to in order to protect the people we love.

i get the feeling, though, that this won't stop until we choose to stop. there's no point where people won't seem to us as though they could use our help. there's no point where people won't seem to us as though we can fit into their lives. there's no point where we won't blame ourselves for other people's pain... where we won't think we could have done more.

it's not our job to save anyone. it's not any person's job. no one can. it's futile. people save themselves. people help themselves. people teach themselves. and here we are trying to do it "better". the audacity of it.

we just don't know how to stop. i told her the one thing that helped me in the past when i'd given up trying to be this beacon of change. i told her regardless of what happens, what we're doing is still trying to control. we need to take the leap of faith that people can sort things out without us. that they can reciprocate if we tell them what we need. and not all of them will. not all of them will figure it out. not all of them will want to give back. and that's fine.

but... as you can see... i slip back into old habits. both she and i value other people too much for our own good, and we let ourselves get swept up into this narrative of friends being each others' saviors. because we feel for everyone. and their pain is ours.

thanks for that, pablo.

hit bump limit. sage anyway.
>> No. 376292
>>376290
ram.
i'm not your mom.
you've told us about your mom's side of the family. they're unable to control their own hunger and they tear people down in order to make themselves feel better.
the intent and self-awareness makes all the difference. similar tool-sets. different applications.
so if you think i'm just here waiting for the kill, you don't know me. to destroy another person is to destroy myself.
i'm sorry you have so many horrible people to deal with in your life. we've had many, too. that's why we're trying so hard to "fix" it. truth is, the only fix is to stop playing into the narrative at all.

so... i'm glad i've had all your feedback. she and i are going to have a talk. topic: how to not try to grab the wheel or blame ourselves for everyone's pain.
>> No. 376293
>>376290
oh and one last thing about the "functioning inhibitors"

yeah. this is something that has come up. had a former co-worker who said that even if it wasn't my intent, i was part of the reason he kept staying at a job he hated. he didn't want to disappoint me. he blamed himself for his failure to meet my expectations. i never told him my expectations. he just kinda knew.

i dated a girl who was awful at expressing herself without negativity. i went in thinking i could change her. i did help her in some ways, but all i did was realize that she needed someone who explicitly told her what i wanted and for me to understand that she can't control her tone or how easily she expresses herself. we both made each other feel like awful people. best thing i did was tell her that we shouldn't be together. that she'll find people who are better for her. i still never told her that i needed someone who had a more delicate approach to dealing with me. because i was trying too hard to control the relationship. because i didn't want to be vulnerable, which is something you need to be if you ever want to build a real relationship. i didn't feel safe with her.

remember where i said that we want to protect other people because we really want to protect ourselves? did you notice that the whole idea is fucked?

yeah. it is. sigh
>> No. 376294
There is corruption in the Plus4 community.
>> No. 376295
File 136604566452.jpg - (87.59KB , 500x333 , tumblr_ml3kmfyxn21s7x1e9o10_500.jpg )
376295
I always love when entirely different eras collide.
>> No. 376297
>>376294
Do tell.
>> No. 376299
oh shit

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/us/explosions-reported-at-site-of-boston-marathon.html?_r=0
>> No. 376346
>>376280
are...
you telling us you're a prostitute?
>> No. 376348
>>376277
Don't feel dissapointed. They almost never send those things back without criticism because that's kind of their job, and as you said, it's going to help, rather than hurt, so you'd have more reason to be disappointed if you paid for the benefit of them and they had nothing to say.
>> No. 376380
Fans terrify me. Deeply. As in actual fans. Not dudes that happen to like something and might defend their tastes in a silly internet argument. I mean people who like something (or someone) way more than is healthy.
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