FUCK AND I FORGET TO PUT THE LINK IN THE OP JEEZ

http://www.mediafire.com/?6qccf5xu3c5c68v

Is there any Vox explaining the Vigors?

I just noticed something. . .

>Bioshock Infinite
>Your goal is to rescue a girl from her guardian
>Her guardian is also a zealot with an army of religious followers
>You have a strange mark on your hand that delineates you as the organization's archenemy
>You are the girl's daddy
>You end up making the ultimate sacrifice so she can be free

>Bioshock 2
>Your goal is to rescue a girl from her guardian
>Her guardian is also a zealot with an army of religious followers
>You have a strange mark on your hand that delineates you as the organization's archenemy
>You are the girl's father figure
>You end up making the ultimate sacrifice so that she can be free

Did I miss anything?

>>172508
Yes, that was literally the entire point of the ending.

>>172504
No, unless it's one of the ones I think I missed. However, it's theorized that the biologist that Fink is watching through a Tear is Tennenbaum, which is how he makes the vigors; he also creates Songbird/Handymen after watching the Tears, which could have been partly from watching the team responsible for the Big Daddy in Rapture

>>172508
Delta is also Eleanor's biological father. Deleted audio diary, yo

>>172532
In general, are things that were meant to be canon but were taken out still canon? Or does it depend on the writer's word?

>>172508
Jack also adopts the Little Sisters in the Good ending of the original.

>>172534
Usually it's about where they take the series afterwards. Since B2 has no where to go, it's a free for all, I guess.

>>172534
I read somewhere that it would explain their unusually strong bond, beyond even other Alpha series Big Daddies because of shared genetics and stuff, so I'm willing to accept it as canon-ish.

Trial of the Songbird: Part 1 …

I think this is better off here instead of the LP thread.
Anyway, do any of you have any ideas that you're going to submit?
I looking at you Autonymoose and Dr. Nurse.

>>172539
That makes killing Mark Meltzer even sadder.

>>172644
...That was odd. Breadcumbs part was hilarious, though.

>Anyway, do any of you have any ideas that you're going to submit?
Nah. Humor has never been a strong suit for me, I'm more of an "lolrandom" kind of guy (which the video kind of is, but I wouldn't piece it together well.)

Oh yeah, I got the Art Book today. If you got the Premium edition of the game that came with a small art book, the larger one has a lot of the same stuff, but you'll find more poses/setups. The big reason to get the art book is a huge section of concept art in the beginning with some really cool stuff; I'll have to get my printer set up and scan a few choice images.

Some early ideas the art book revealed that weren't used:
-Vigor junkies, who would mutate from vigor overuse; the image showed a crystalized person, I guess they would have been this game's version of Splicers.
-A "claw daddy" that was like a Big Daddy, except with huge crab claws. Would have been too similar, but cool looking none-the-less
-"Splicers", which are people that merged with the version of themselves across tears into a mutated monster. Some were just a little offputting, while others were downright freaky

>>172647
Something tells me that some of these ideas will be re-used in a future Bioshock game. Wasn't there something like "six games' worth" of ideas omitted?

>>172538
>>172539
Gotcha. I wouldn't say "they're close because they're biologically related" is always true, but I'm willing to go with it.

>>172677
Dunno about the six games worth thing, but it's possible; a lot gets left on the cutting room floor during the initial discovery/design portion of a game.

And we still have DLC for Infinite (at least, we better, I paid for the damn season pass), so they could show up there instead of a sequel.

>>172677
Yeah, Gardner made a comment a few months before final release that they cut enough content for 5 or 6 games. Obvious exaggeration, though, and it was in the context of ideas specific to Infinite that they couldn't get to work right.

>>172644

>He uses the actual soundtrack from the game

Offensive video maker is credit to team.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/7124-Shock-Treatment?utm_source=latest&utm_medium=index_carousel&utm_campaign=all

So Moviebob just had an opinion about this game.

I think it sounds halfway rational.

How about you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRBaZuID7Mg

You know what really rustled my jimbos about this game? What really bit into me and chewed? Gird your loins, because this will probably be the stupidest complaint anyone makes about the game. Whatever, I gotta get it off my chest:

There's no God.

There's not even a possibility of a God. In a game about infinite alternate realities, where absolutely anything could exist, we don't even broach the subject of, what if there IS an omniscient entity ruling the universe? We spend all this time hearing about Heaven and judgment and angels, but in the end it's all bullshit, because that's what Ken Levine believes and we aren't allowed to consider anything different.

There was never anything holy about Columbia. That's a fine enough turn of plot in itself, but we aren't even presented with the remote possibility of a deity, in a game where we are constantly performing murderous miracles with Vigors and where man is stealing fire from the gods (Fink.) There's just so much potential for a bigger deism dialogue in BS Infinite, and they dropped it. What if you met God during your travels in Columbia? What if he wasn't white? Hell, what if you actually had to kill God as part of the plot, with the Luteces pitting you against him as a pawn in some kind of unholy quantum-men-vs.-holy-terror game of cosmic chess? Wouldn't that have been more interesting than "surprise, (x) character is in your family tree"?

I just think it's sad that we get all this religion, but no possibility (in an INFINITE multiverse) of there being a God. It'd have made for great conflict and some really fucked-up implications.

What do you guys think?

>>172715
I'm over 12 and not forced to attend church anymore, so those possibilities hold little appeal or depth to me.

>>172715
>Ken Levine believes
Really? It's not like the writers of the Simpsons are actually vegetarian Buddhists, it's just that the writers forced themselves into a corner when they had to make Lisa the good guy of almost every episode.

>>172716
I understand your sentiment, but may you be a little less patronizing?

>>172715
>>172716

>herewego.jpg

>>172715
Even as a Christian, it doesn't bother me. It's honestly not all that prominent to the core purpose of the story, and is used more like a setting. A tool to symbolize corruption of power through the abuse of faith and trust. There was far more that I did find interesting regardless of it.

>>172715
I think the game setting up an absurdly racist born-again Christian as its main antagonist was enough use of religious themes for me. Besides, these Biblical trappings are all just a narrative tool to further the game's message that you have to live with your choices and you can't be truly redeemed for monstrous acts no matter who's on your side. If Comstock had found absolution through some other religion or philosophy Columbia would just be centered around it instead.

But all that being said? I think things were originally intended to be slightly different: http://www.officialplaystationmagazine.co.uk/2013/01/18/bioshock-infinite-altered-after-conversations-with-religious-people-on-the-team-says-levine/

>>172715
>There's not even a possibility of a God.
Where in the game do you get that idea? The game never denies the possible existence of God. Are you referring to the exchange where Elizabeth asks Booker if he's afraid of God? His response was his own personal conviction. Are you referring to Comstock being a born-again Christian who uses religion as a means to control the masses? That's been done for eons, and still is. Incidentally, I think Comstock actually believed everything he said, and wasn't a heathen claiming to be religious in order to use the religion. Are you talking about Elizabeth and the twins being Timelords? That doesn't preclude the existence of God at all. The game is full of true believers, false believers, and non-believers everywhere.

The game wasn't about religion; the angels and prayers and everything were world building, giving you an idea of the state of mind of your average Columbian. It was about religion and poverty and greed and fascism and old time values and death and the unknown and labor disputes and clockwork androids. It never tried to answer the question of "Is there a God", so far as I recall, and there was absolutely no reason for it to do so. If anything, that would have diverged from the overall story of the game.

But even if the game does somehow state that, it doesn't bother me in the least.

>>172739

>‘I’m not going to change anything to get your approval, but I think I understand what you’re saying and I think I can do something that’s going to make the story better, based on what you said.’

My bullshit meter is going off the charts.

Bioshock Infinite Easter Egg -…

>Find guitar and have a sudden urge to play it
>Chick I've been hanging out with starts dancing and shit
>Gives conveniently placed orphan an apple, instead of money she keeps finding
>She stops when I quit playing the guitar
>We never speak of this again

>>172849
I don't know that this is an Easter Egg; it's only hidden if you absolutely never explore, and if you come down the stairs Elizabeth points it out almost right away.

>>172852
I'm still embarrassed that I missed it, really.

>>172853
I wouldn't be; you could miss that entire small portion of Finktown and never know it except to listen to a Voxaphone in the Police Station (which is how I initially found out about it, having gone straight from the train switch to the station). But once you're in that portion, you'd have to seriously avoid exploring to not find it.

>coming out of Good Time Club on 1999 mode
>Bunch of goons pop out of nowhere, as per usual
>Suddenly, remember that the skyhooks in Finktown are mysteriously unusable after you leave the Alpha Universe

WHOSE FUCKING IDEA WAS THAT. I WILL LEGITIMATELY SLAP THEM IN THE FACE.

I DIDN'T REPLAY FIGHTS FROM CHECKPOINT AND COLLECT ALL SKYLINE GEAR FOR THIS SHIT, GOD DAMN IT.

>>172983
Weh? I don't remember them not working after that point. In fact, on my last playthrough I made a point of remembering to go up there when my ammo ran low to collect weapons on the roof. (I didn't know about the rooftops on my first playthrough.)

AH-HA-HA!
Puns~

>>173181

>>173181
You're missing out.

I'm honestly surprised I've never seen Bioschlock.

>>173189
One also wonders why they haven't started selling "Biosmocks" among their merchandise.

>>173189
>perfect pic for a Space Jam mash-up
>there isn't one
>there is, however, the BIOSHOCK SONG
The BIOSHOCK Song

>>173189

Classic Game Room - BIOSHOCK INFINITE review

I'm not going to discuss Infinite at length, as everything that can be said has been said, but simply feel the need to put in my own two cents:

The game wasn't bad... but was disappointing. Even ignoring the convoluted ending, the game felt as though huge chunks were missing. While neither this nor the original had any replay value, at least Rapture had room to explore and rewarded you for doing so. Infinite seems rushed, unpolished, and cluttered with good ideas that aren't properly linked together.

Still, I've Redboxed far worse games (Aliens Colonial Marines and Red Faction Armageddon... ugh) so I can't complain too much about a game I basically spent $5 and a weekend on.

>>173368
>the game felt as though huge chunks were missing

Accord to Ken there is enough cut content for 3-4 games.

>>173371

But. . . Why would you cut that much content? Why?

Development costs money. Wouldn't it make sense to try and make that money back instead of throwing everything out the window at the last minute?

Why.jpg

>>173472
Deadlines. Likely much of the stuff cut was not fully fleshed out when they started putting everything together, or didn't work out the way they'd wanted it to, or there were changes made in the story that made game elements pointless or out of place.

A lot of this kind of stuff is probably going to be used for DLC. A few things we know that were planned and taken out:
1) Skylines would connect all of Columbia, instead of just being short hops (or, for some reason, closed loops.)
2) Elizabeth was originally more of a mage than a TimeLord/Q-Lite. Essentially she had God-tier versions of Plasmids (telekinesis, inferno, etc.) very early on.
3) After she went Timelord, Elizabeth was still able to open larger tears at will, as seen in the Horse demo.
4) Vigors were limited-use items, only allowing a few equipped at a time, and would have to be changed out (the artbook shows them as being small bottles you attach to a contraption on your arm, which is how they would be swapped out.)
5) Telekinesis was originally going to be a Vigor.

>>173473
That stuff I could live without. Most of it.

>>173472
Paraphrasing my understanding: they cut was 3 or 4 less-good iterations on Bioshock that were each 25-50% done.

Game design is like recipe design. You want to make something new, you gotta try it out and see if it's actually how you imagined.

>>173487
Bioshock Infinite's development was the stuff of nightmares, hence why there was so much staff hemorrhaging in the last year of production. If you're familiar with the development histories of Daikatana, Duke Nukem Forever, LA Noire and other rolling clusterfucks, they followed similar patterns of ego-driven ambitions, constant crunch times and ballooning costs. The frankly gob-smacking difference this time is how the game that came out of it is actually pretty awesome. It helps that the overbearing ego in this case was a reasonably cool guy who knew what he was doing (rather than a blowhard, a milksop or an utter asshole in the cases of the three examples above).

>>173494
Do you literally think Ken Levine is motivated by self-aggrandizing ego?

>>173494
>Ego
>Ken

>>173495
Well, not really, I think he's more motivated by ideas and finding the means to communicate them than by how awesome he thinks he is. "Ego" was the wrong word, "personality" might be more apt.

>>173502
Yeah, put that way your commentary makes alot of sense.

Listening to the soundtrack, and I just have to say, this is a sad game. There's not a single happy-ish song in the whole bunch. Come to think of it, there's no happiness in the game itself, either. It's all just deepening sadness. :(

>>173550
Happiness isn't 'deep'

>>173559
No, but they don't even have the fleeting happiness moments other games might give you, where you're going "oh hey maybe everything will be alright". It's just one, long, constant sadness.

>>173550
The original Bioshock had happy songs, but they were used to show how things had gone to hell since then.

So has enough time passed yet where we can talk about how this game basically leaned in and went "CHIM" at us with desperate, compromised game developer tears in its eyes?

>>173693

>"CHIM"

. . . I don't get it.

That said, the game's bungles are almost overshadowed by the fact that it came out at all. Emerging from Development Hell with anything approaching playability is an achievement(tm)

But the tinted lenses are off now and I see the game for the troubled, flawed thing that it is. I'm still really excited for the DLC, but I remain disappointed that a powerful and committed group like Irrational nearly managed to Duke Nukem their entire game.

>>173715
Elder Scrolls lore. Achieving "CHIM" is achieving godhood. I won't get into the specifics of it, but it means that a character basically takes the entirety of the existence of the game they belong to, and bends it into a shape of their preference. Like opening the ~command console, and directly changing the game.

>>173716

>>173716
>>173747

To be more accurate, it's a conversation about game design and characters who are aware they're in a game and using that to talk about game design, to boot.

Which is pretty much what Bioshock Infinite's ending is all about; talking about game design, limitations, ect. It's kinda a sad message in a bottle, really.

>>173550
http://youtu.be/pK74rxBDd-I

The hidden track sounded upbeat... right till you hear the words.

>>173751
Man, I wish I knew how to do advanced sound modifications. The 1000% percent is Elizabeth ("Time will catch up to me") and the 800% is Booker ("Time for me to drown to live"). I bet if you could split their respective parts out of their respective speeds and then put them together as one song, they would sync up great.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jp_vKoxJgyk

BioShock Infinite Clash In The Clouds
Bioshock Infinite Burial At Sea DLC

Multiplayer idea!
Multiple Elizabeths all competing at some pointless task, such as:

Catch the puppy
Eat all the bonbons
Down the random jug of vigor first

Of course they'd find horrifying means to achieve their goals, but that would add to the humor.

There will be no multiplayer. Besides, game play is not the series strong suit. Then again, taking a more survival horror route might be just what the series needs to be a good game rather than just an interesting story.

Anyway, as happy as I am to see rapture and Elizabeth in noir style, I can't help but feel there's so much of Columbia I haven't seen orexperiemced.

>>178435
>Imagining the Elizabeths from the "baptism" scene slapping the shit out of one another over a corgi puppy

Fund it

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUCK YES. Great thing to wake up to.

Also, Burial at Sea is listed as "Episode 1"--here's hoping they do better at this episode thing than Valve.

>>178442
Oh I hope its different eras each time. If we get an '80s one..oh soo delicious. Have Elizabeth sing "I need a Hero".

Something tells me the DLC is set in an alternate universe where Booker and Elizabeth aren't related, done because they knew people were shipping them regardless.

>>178459
Oh man. Standard noir, but with tears. Rapture, Columbia, Future Libertarian Moonbase, the Vatican.

My body is ready.

>>178462
But what if I'm only shipping them BECAUSE they are related, huh?

Seriously tho my Bioshock Infinite OTP is Elizabeth in that corset / My Dick

>>178464
You and me, both, anon.
You and me, both.

Looks like Burial At Sea only goes to Episode 2, at least as far as the Season Pass is concerned:

http://www.bioshockinfinite.com/season-pass

>>178431
'Burial A Sea' looks pretty freakin awesome, but then again so did the original game.

"10/10 Near Perfect" My ass...

>>178463
>Future Libertarian Moonbase
Imagine that, moon people...

>>178467
The whole series suffers from a from a major focus on story over game play which is only serviceable most of the time. I'm not against better story, but it seems to be more and more apparent that people value story over what actually matters for a game. I still hold the concept that the series would make better books or comics.

Still, survival horror Elizabeth might work well.

>>178471
The story isn't all that great either, in Infinite the plot was all over the place after a certain amount of time and you could feel the troubled game development.

Plus alot of the "Major Themes" of the Bioshock Franchise are just "lol deep" in their execution during the game plot.

>over what actually matters for a game

What if that is what you care about in a game?

>>178473
I just think it's making a misuse of the medium if the game-play (what makes a game a game) suffers for the sake of another factor, like story. Bioshock Infinite (and the others to a degree) was a very straight forward story where none of the interaction made a major impact one way or another. The gameplay only served as a mild obstacle from one cutscene to another and wasn't really intuitive or practical for the world it was set in. I just think it would have been stronger in another medium instead of just being an interactive movie where you're pushed along set pieces for rudimentary gun play and traps.

It seems to be a trend that the more movie like a game is, the better it is, regardless of the gameplay. That's not something I necessarily want to see.

>>178474

Well, I don't agree. What interests me primarily in videogames (single-player ones anyway) is its potential as a storytelling medium, the way it involves the reader directly in the story, even if the interactive nature of the medium doesn't directly affect the course of the overall narrative.

>>178474
So you wanted/expected a more Mass Effect-like experience?

>>178476
Its not so much
>>the way it involves the reader directly in the story
as
>>Forcing the player to do something stupid with no other option and claim it as art

>>178477
Uh, are you trying to force him into some sort of false argument? Exapnd upon your pithy one-line post if you would be so kind.
If anything you can say the quality of BI's ending was closer to ME3 than anything...

>>178459
>>80's
That basically makes me remember Blood Dragon. Honestly I would love if a bioshock had that sort of open-worldness to it letting you REALLY explore and make the most of the fantastical sealed-city settings at your leisure.

>>178479
>Uh, are you trying to force him into some sort of false argument?
Uh, no. I was asking if he had hoped or expected that BI was going to have the same choice system found in games like Mass Effect. (While I know the hub-bub surrounding the ending of ME3, I haven't experienced it myself, and my comparison has nothing to do with either ending.) The "Choose your own adventure" style gaming, instead of just being there while events happen in a linear progression separated by battle, which I thought was what >>178474 was complaining about.

>>178478

The simple fact that you've defined it as 'forcing the player to do something' makes my point entirely.

>>178480
I believe the original pitch for the game involved an open world, as the Skylines were said to be quick transportation between sections of the city. Not to mention a number of other things, like tears being more prominent and at-whim in battle, a telekensis vigor, and vigors in general were also limited in equip like weapons in the final game.

>>178477
Not necessarily. I just don't think it's a good game because it doesn't make strong use of its medium. Having an interesting story and setting means nothing if your game play lacks punch and Infinite's was just dull. The games excellent presentation was impressive, but not what defines a game.

>>178476
And I don't think it took advantage of what the medium can do in terms of storytelling. All the advantage of interactivity amounted to choosing her pendant and if you got a bandage on your hand which you couldn't even see most of the time. The only advantage it really has as a game is the ability to move the story at your own pace while still experiencing the small set pieces that showed off the potential of the setting.

>>178489
We're of two minds, then; I felt the gameplay was very solid and the Skylines added a very nice dimension to fighting. I would never recommend the game solely on its battles, but I didn't think it detracted from the story in the least.

The tears... were just there, mostly. They were handy, but didn't offer much new ("tear" could easily be replaced with "drop" in CoD, with rare exception.)

From early options you're given, though, I was disappointed in the lack of branching paths, though you had no options after the first quarter of the game so I suppose it's not surprising. Likely an angle they had really wanted to flesh out and wasn't able to in time.

With Burial At Sea, since it seems to be a Noir story in a far more peaceful setting (as far as we've been shown), hopefully we get that branching story.

>>178464
>>178465
Eh, I guess it's an unpopular opinion for me, then. You put the hint that any two characters are are even remotely related, or just consider each other honorary non-blood-related family, and I can't ship them anywhere near each other.

On the other hand, you don't hear a terrible amount about Booker's wife...

>>178494
No, you seem to be missing the point, nothing serious to do with shipping is being said but instead simply that liz is hot as hell in that corset and as red-blooded males we find her most arousing.

Or perhaps this is just a cunning ruse to trick me into posting more images of her?

>>178494
So the "Elizabeth" in Burial At Sea is actually Anna's mother/-equivalent of that universe which is why she's older and has a resemblance to Anna-beth?

>>178495
Shiny plastic everything? That's UE3 for you!

>>178500
I'm sorry it does not meet with your approval.

>>178496
Mmmaybe? I kinda hate the "identical mother" trope too, but w/e.

>>178495
Nope. You post what you want, I'm neutral either way. She is hot in a corset though I'm in a relationship and can't find anyone except my girlfriend really that attractive rn, I just can't ship her with Booker. Absolutely any other character, and I'm 100% down with it.

Personally, I was curious about the Bioshock, but only enough to wait, look further into it, and see that it wasn't really to my tastes. The second looked like it might improve on the original, but apparently not in the direction I would have hoped. Infinite really cemented the idea that this is just the kind of game Irrational Games makes, and I'm fine with them sticking to their guns about this even if it means they never make a game I want to buy.

Waiting more to release teasers/previews could help give fewer false impressions, but since their first game came out I think it's been easy to see what priorities they have. They didn't seem to make a deliberate bait-and-switch, and there's enough developers out there that I don't need every franchise with potential to cater to me.

I remember reading (and being annoyed by) arguments from people who insisted that games just didn't put enough focus on story. That gameplay either somehow wouldn't be affected by making it a lesser priority, or that it should be sacrificed in the name "a more complete experience". Obviously, there's demand for games that are basically movies, and I have no problem with them existing, especially if it means I can sit down to talk about a nice, gameplay-focused title without people butting in with a bunch of "Durr hurr where tha deep stories at? Books can have deep plots why can't mah gaems?"

>>178505
Honestly all you can see is her backside, I didn't think it warrented a NSFW cover.

I'll quit posting images regardless though, yes.