>>85766
The fuck does that have to do with campaign length/depth?

>>85766
You also need to have 6 skills to be anywhere NEAR a decent thief

>>85766

Yea I'm sorry. But I don't think of that as being "positive".

The more options you have for tweaking the more convoluted your character can get. This can also make char creation a bitch. I'd rather have a skill set that has one skill for several different things than several skills for one thing.

And that hardly explains how you can do a larger game with more "depth".

>>85753

I'm okay with this.

>>85807
Who needs accuracy when you have power? That's the Jim Darkmagic magic.

>>85806
I think what Slek is getting at (and correct me if I'm wrong here), is that 3.5e allows more fine control of the details of a character's skillset, which impacts the world building aspect of the game. From what you were saying, 4e sounds like you no longer have to set aside an entire evening for the players to create their characters. Ultimately, it's just a matter of taste.

>>85833
But what do the PCs' personal statistics have to do with worldbuilding/storytelling? That's what I want to know.

>>85834
Not just the PCs stats; everyone's stats. Having a more fine-grained system allows you to inject more detail into the mechanics of the world. It gives answers to metagame questions about the abilities of the coal miners, pearl divers and professional scribes of the world. It's not the only solution, nor is it the One True Solution, but it's a solution I feel comfortable with. It should go without saying that any skill system is worthless as a world-building tool without the inspiration and hard work to back it up.

>>85848
>It gives answers to metagame questions about the abilities of the coal miners, pearl divers and professional scribes of the world.
What questions? Are the players' collective suspensions of disbelief going to be broken if they can't find out how many levels of Craft their friendly neighborhood blacksmith has?

I hate to sound abrasive, but I just have a different DMing philosophy. Perhaps systems like 3.X are better at large-scale campaigns for people like you, but as far as I'm concerned 4E does the job just as well. In fact, since I don't need to work out a lot of technical details, I have more time and freedom to focus on the setting and story.

>>85833
Wait are you saying you haven't made a character and played in the new edition?

>>85848
I suggest you read this blog that discusses this issue, and outlines why 4e made the paradigm shift that it did.

http://community.wizards.com/wrecan/blog/2010/04/03/the_world_is_not_made_of_numbers

>>85855
You don't sound abrasive, don't worry.
>Perhaps systems like 3.X are better at large-scale campaigns for people like you
This is exactly what I'm trying to say. People in this thread seem to be laying into people like Slek and I for preferring 3e over 4e. I'm just trying to show that we're not some knee-jerk reactionaries, it's just a matter of taste.

>>85873
That's what I'm saying. Not there, but in my first post in this thread (>>84812). Reading the article you posted now.

>>85900
The problem was that Slek worded it as if 3E was objectively better for large-scale, detailed campaigns than 4E was.

And you'd do a better job of making yourself not look like a knee-jerk reactionary if you didn't link back to the post where you said, "If I wanted to play an MMORPG, I'd play an MMORPG."

>>85945
You're right, he did. I apologize for misrepresenting him.
You're right about this to. But I've received some schooling in the merits of 4e since that post, courtesy of this thread. To the extent that I'm contemplating trying to run a campaign with it, to see if I really was being a knee-jerk reactionary the first time I read 4e.

Anyway, on an entirely uncontroversial note: I had a great session of 4E today. I was going to be playing with my original party of three in a monster-hunters-themed campaign, but one of them couldn't make it due to family issues. Instead of starting without her, I decided that this session would be a "prologue" that would focus on how the other two characters' adventuring careers started.

The characters were Aleks the human dhampyr aerialist rogue and Alps the goliath greatweapon fighter. Both of them had low INT scores which they played for laughs, but the degree to which Alps's player emphasized the fighter's "simple-minded gentle giant" personality was deemed Oscar-worthy. In order to keep them alive, I included a DMPC dwarf devoted cleric named Father Blacksteel.

Their mission was to follow a polluted stream up into a tunnel in search of whatever corrupting influence was effecting it. I was able to make use of my Caverns of Carnage tiles, and I mixed things up a bit by making all water-filled squares difficult terrain due to just how sludgy it was. There were two encounters in all, and to sum them up: first they fought two spear-toting bullywugs and a bloodsucking stirge that decided to sneak up on them, and then they took on a bullywug mudlord (pic related) and his six froggy minions. Alps delivered most of the killing blows, except for the second encounter in which the mudlord inflicted a lot of friendly fire and Aleks managed to finally finish the spell-slinging asshole off with a simple dagger to the back. I don't think Father Blacksteel ever managed to actually hit any monsters, but he really came through in the healing department and was able to purify the stream after the bullywugs were all dead. In the end we all had a good time, there was some delightfully lighthearted roleplaying, and I got to justify my purchase of miscellaneous gaming accessories. And it all happened in my basement, just as Gygax intended.

The next time me get together, they want their characters to join a fight club. We'll see...

>>86079
God, that sounds so fun! I think I have to start playing again now.

>>86121
I'm desperate enough to DM with some of you guys... or maybe I should see what Kosh is up to?

>>86198
I'd be interested, but A) I'm not sure I can afford the new books quite just yet and B) I'm in Australia, so the time difference would probably kill us.

Man, Essentials is actually starting to look pretty good, but (1) buying the books would be a big investment for the sake of some novelty and (2) my friend would be sure to give me a hard time for giving in to WotC's moneymaking schemes.

Characters or story what's most important?
My opinion. Characters, the story is only there to put the characters together and put them into situations. Characters and problems from the character's backstory should be worked into the game.
Now this doesn't mean that I think the story should be generic or halfassed at all.
I'm just sort of rambling due to things that happened at my game yesterday that got me thinking about why I prefer one of my DMs to the other.

>>88017
What's important is getting a mix of both, and to remember it's not just your character who can be important James.

>>88050
>remember it's not just your character who can be important
Why don't you keep your assumptions to yourself.

Got my handbooks and DM screen today. Loving it.

>>88409

+4Canadorgy: D&D edition.

>>88454
Down! I'm actually debating writing a column about playing a completely paperless game of D&D. Thoughts?

I really don't want to wait another month to DM for my friends :(

Gift from /a/
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=hc7e4n6d

>>88696
Mother of God, that must have took a lot of effort.

>>88696
I came.

I need some advice. Dealing-with-gaming-group advice, not gaming advice.

In my last campaign, I pulled off a fairly epic betrayal -> double cross maneuver (in a very heavily RP focused campaign, so it meant quite a bit) and managed to keep my fellow players in the dark about it until all the clues came together at the grand reveal. It took some collaboration with the DM and a lot of misleading and subterfuge both in character and out of it. I still consider it one of my finest gaming moments, it gave the campaign the focus we'd been casting around for, led to many twists and turns and a huge, climactic ending, and everyone was satisfied.

When we started the new campaign, I'd had enough of being the sneaky bastard and made it clear that my new character would be much more straightforward and not prone to betrayal. But no one is believing me. My suggestions and motives are constantly being questioned both in game and out, and while it's not malicious, it's really tiring to always be under suspicion. Plus, this suspicion is reflected in in-game behavior, too, even though there is no cause nor reason for my new character to be under it. I've told them to cut it out several times and had our DM confirm that no tricky business is afoot, but it keeps on happening.

Any ideas on how I can get out of the shadow of my last character and get them to quit it?

>>89370

Damnit.

>>89367

They'll get over it. Unless they're idiots.

>>89367
Have one of those moments where a best friend would be like "I'VE BEEN WORKING FOR THE BAD GUY ALL ALONG" and have your character say that.

But then have him laugh loudly and go "I'm just shittin ya"

>>89367

Pull a fast one obviously.

Have the GM set up a scenerio where the PC's will THINK you're betraying them again. Once they've tied you up and made sure you're not going anywhere. One of the helpful NPC's that's been assisting you this whole time turns around and betrays the party.

The best way to get a party to learn is to punish them. And jumping to conclusions about characters with no reason to jump to those conclusions is one of them.

>>89418
My group learned that the hardest way possible, by accidentally attacking the entirely wrong side, just because every trope pointed to them being the bad guys...

>>89418
Hmmm.

Hmm hmm hmmmmm.

That's just crazy enough to work!

Thanks, Shirou. I'll see if I can get the DM in on it.

I want to wet my feet DMing before I try for my friends in September. Does anyone wanna do a one-time game using tools?

>>89443
Depends on the day, I'd be up for it.

>>89443
I have no experience what-so-ever. And no microphone. But I would be willing to try it.

Remember the young black dragon from the MM1? Remember how its tactics seemed to boil down to, "Hur hur I'll just hide in this cloud of darkness and nip at you while you keep trying to hit me over and over with increasing frustration?"

Now look at this little terror.

>>90437
ouch, that thing looks like a pain to deal with. Is this part of Wizard's response to extreme optimization?

>>90483
When you hold the two versions side-by-side, this one has about twenty fewer HP and significantly decreased defenses; however, it does much more damage. It was generally agreed by fans and insiders alike that solo monsters took too long to kill and didn't really pose that much of a threat given their power. The new policy is to build monsters that aren't frustratingly difficult to hit but can dish out enough punishment to keep the PCs on their toes. The dragon's ability to shake off conditions like stunned was implemented to prevent the party controller from locking down the fight's sole enemy and turning it into an HP pinata.

>>89423
Worked even better than expected! Thanks again, Shirou.

>>90795

2.5 FOREVER!!!!!

>>90797
Talisman v2! It had a Time travle expansonpack!

>>90798

and as for overall universe I man torn between my love of Spelljammer and Planescape. Also I still have all my Shadowrun stuff I bought a long time ago but never had a chance to play.

Hey, here's a question for other DMs: how often do you get tired of the campaign you're running? It's just that my brain keeps churning out new ideas so fast that sometimes I lose interest in the stuff already in progress. My college party will be reuniting soonish and while our pirate campaign has been fun, I never had any real plans for it and I've kind of lost my place over the summer. Any advice?

>>91976

Focus on something else for a while. The game will interest you again after a bit.

The newest addition to our pirate campaign: a half-orc avenger of Tiamat who used to serve as the first mate on a ship called the Ragamuffin before her mates were killed by lizardfolk. Her current goal: to storm their ziggurat, destroy their very religion, and replace it with her own. Her weapon of choice: a falchion enchanted so that it is basically a giant fancy chainsaw.

Fuck yeah I love this group.

>Second session of DMing SW d6 module for my table at our local roleplaying club
>Not too bad, reasonable number for my first ever ti-
"Hey, here's a guy who just showed up, we're putting him on your table"
>...Okay, that's not too bad, I gue-
Oh hey, sorry me and my 14-year old son are late. I'll just put my son next to the other teenagers
>There are now 8 people in this party