>Activision doesn't believe female leads can sell games, and has even gone so far as to change characters to avoid a lady protagonist, according to former employees. http://www.1up.com/news/activision-games-female-leadsThoughts on this? Any kernels of truth in what Kotick is saying? You're the only chan mature enough to have an actual discussion about this.
I FUCKIN' LOVE TITS, MAN. TITS AND ASSES ARE AWESOME.
So Activision is made of dick, big news there!Gusse Heart of the swarm with prove them wrong. That or reading the history of Tomb Raider.
>>88799>Heart of the swarm with prove them wrong.18 months is a long time for them to fark about with it course its likely gonna come from the Queen of Blades novel as a source so they can't muck up things too badly.
Dats Sheet mang, I'd buy the fuck out of any game that's good regardless of main character's gender.AND OH GOD I WANT BIOSHOCK 3.
Sometimes executives make really bad, really embarrassingly bad decisions. It's not entirely untrue that selling a game with a female lead can be difficult: but it's in no way impossible, and there's nothing saying that it can't be worth the effort. Activision is being especially awful because it's focusing on focus testing (which always has to be taken in context, and with a grain of salt) and actively stifling creativity by making sure what's made is something that's sold before. It's just outright disappointing on every level.
>Activision acting like a cliché evil corporation and doing stupid shit in the name of profit.>Again.
By that logic Tomb Raider and Metroid wouldn't exist past the first installment. Mass Effect would only have ManShep as an option, Chun Li would not be nearly as popular as she is...the list is pretty damn long.The problem is Activision being creatively bankrupt. Most of their releases are cookie cutter, licensed games, or things without a protagonist, like Guitar Hero.
To be fair, Bayonetta sucks.
>>88807>Bayonetta sucks.Yea but that ain't all she's good at.
The problem is mainly that for a female lead to really sell, she has to be hyper-sexualized. To be fair, the majority of lead males are buff, handsome men with a well cut chin, but for whatever reason that doesn't seem as annoying as a lead female doing flips while wearing clothes that would allow her tits to pop out at any given moment.A lot of it is that the world still has an underlying view of gender roles, so an average female lead doesn't seem as plausible (regardless of what the plot of the game is). There are a lot of counter examples, of course. Beyond Good & Evil is an amazing game (if plagued by some control issues and a gimmicky end boss... and a dead sequel) with an average female. Okay, you have the midriff and a bit of cleavage, but for the environment and work I could honestly expect that.
Wouldn't know. Not any strong female leads in games anymore. It's all tits and ass with no distinguishing characteristics, moral choices, or convictions except for said tits and ass.inb4 Samus. What has she done that sets her apart from any other spess mureen?
For a second I was thinking you guys might be taking this the wrong way and that Activision just meant that a female lead character alone wouldn't sell a video game. Then I read the article.Way to go Activision proving how retarded you are once again. What the hell seriously happened recently over there that caused them to be a bunch of assholes? Was it the Blizzard merge or whatever?
>>88812Kotick, Kotick, Kotick.Now, yeah, you could make the argument that "they're just playing it safe" and "just trying to make the most money they can" and "trying to make their investors happy".Then you have Bobby Kotick firing women who complain about sexual harassment. And then refusing to payout when they lose.Kotick is a bitch.
I've played around with the idea of making a game where the main character is an older, married woman. Played from the first person, her actual personality is mostly decided by your own actions, particularly those toward her husband and daughter early on. Maybe have her be a mage and toss lightning and fireballs around. But I lack any sort of programming knowledge and am too lazy to write a script, so whatever.
>>88810Not be a Space Marine for one.
>>88816Okay, Boba Fett knockoff. Whatever Tiki, why do you have to be so nitpicky?! Gosh!
>>88819They're both bounty hunters in armor, that is the extent of their overlap. Characterwise, they are entirely different.
>>88815I've always wanted to do a story where the main character is an older woman, just because I don't see alot of characters like that out there in fantasy or sci-fi settings. And not some cougar/milf bullshit or anything like that.
>>88820When I am talking to you, I will ask for your opinion on what I just said.
>>88809>To be fair, the majority of lead males are buff, handsome men with a well cut chin, but for whatever reason that doesn't seem as annoying as a lead female doing flips while wearing clothes that would allow her tits to pop out at any given moment.Probably because those guy characters aren't being sexualized. Sure, you can argue several girl gamers will find them sexy and sexualize them regardless (virtually anything can and will be sexualized at this point), but it obviously wasn't what the creators intended. Unlockable skimpy costumes for them are a rarity, and when they are done, it's usually for a good lol or two because it's so outside the norm.
>>88821That would be my reason too. It's just not something that's done that much, at least as far as main characters go. Personally, in the (theoretical) game I'd avoid showing too much of her body, but for immersion purposes, and to keep a leash on myself to prevent my personal tastes from fucking things up. Plus it'd be one less character design to worry about.
>>88824You are on a public image board. When you make a post, people are going to most likely comment on it, whether you like it or not.
>>88826 >>male characters aren’t as sexualized as much as womenSo what are the androgynous or young males of Japanese games?
Oh, how I pine for a world where well-defined female protagonists are considered a perfectly normal thing.>>88801And since I just beat Bioshock 2 yesterday, good lord do I agree with this.Playable Big Sister with wall jumping action would be the best ever.
>>88833...androgynous males?But no, that's a good point, now that I think about it. JRPGs tend to be equal opportunity offenders when it comes to fanservice.
FACT: Only insecure people hate sexualized characters.FACT: You can make a compelling character sexualized without making them one-dimensional.FACT: Nobody minds playing as a woman, unless her character is pretty much "derp I'm a girl", and if that's the case, she isn't a good main character to begin with. Knowing Activision, this is exactly what they were going for, before King Kotick shot them down.
Actually, the success and level of shipping that games like Mass Effect have had makes me want to take the Japanese Dating/Sex Simulation platform and use it as a method of developing an female protagonist led action RPG. More heavy on the socialization/relationships (platonic or otherwise) aspects, with real gameplay impacts. You could even balance it so that people don't just choose the relationships for specific effects, to prevent "gimped" situations. More like 'tactical differences'. Or something.Though thats mistakenly assuming A) A female protagonist is required for that to happen and B) That western video games don't do that already. Though honestly, the Japanese dating games seem to go WAY more indepth in terms of characters.
Already posted this on /baw/, but it's obviously more relevant here. I'm also going to say I think the article is full of shit, and I don't really agree or care, and I greatly dislike that they're going to try to pin this on Activision rather than anyone else in the videogame industry.Games Activision has/will release in 2010 not based on a product line (iCarly or Percy Jackson, for example) or Cabela/Rapala (because that's a headache):DJ Hero 2Modern Warfare 2 Map PacksSingularityGuitar Hero: Warriors of RockTrue Crime (Which has, by the way, traditionally had a male lead anyway)Black OpsMonster JamApacheDeath DriveSo, lets sum this up, shall we?DJ Hero a rhythm game, Guitar Hero another rhythm game, Call of Duty -- military shooters, True Crime -- a series traditionally full of male leads (and a dog), another scifi military shooter, monster trucks, a helicopter game, and nobody knows what Death Drive is yet.Where in this is there room for/a need for female lead?
>>88836I think a lot of these comments say 'I don't want sexualized female characters' but they really mean 'hypersexualized.' Like, I don't want the camera to be three inches from her ass for no reason during all the cutscenes. But it's okay if she just has a nice ass and the game isn't rubbing my nose in it. Er, did I say that out loud?Speaking of three dimensional characters, it occurs to me now that a lot of these generic dude protagonists nowadays may as well be generic lady protagonists... it's not like it would change anything. except I feel certain that the villain would threaten rape/sexual assault at some point, you know it would happen
>>88835 And what about games that use real people as models for their main characters like the Mass Effect and Onimusha series? Surely they should be using military veterans or martial artists in top physical conditions for these strong action characters…what, they use male fashion models? But that could be considered sexist if they were women.
>>88848The difference is that male models cultivate muscles and look like they might be athletes, whereas (most) female models cultivate a fragile physique unsuited to killin folk with humongous swords.
>>88849 But they're both projecting an image and sexualized. One just isn't fit for regular combat but can be written as some trained sex pot out of James Bond or the average woman drawn into some fantastic situation and suddenly they're logical as well. You're telling me that every space marine having a face that would have gotten them laid and an easy life as a singer or something is okay while girls with over d cup breasts is going too far in worlds where there are bio labs designing zombie viruses and I just can't not laugh at the little irony in it. We're afraid of "bad" stereotypes and yet we praise and accept the “good” ones.
>>88850I was thinking specifically of a female space marine or a character in a non Final Fantasy setting wielding a huge weapon. Sure, a female private eye or a female office peon drawn into a supernatural conflict can look any way you please. I'm totally cool with people in videogames being pretty as hell. But you're wrong if you think good looking men in games are sexualized just because they're good looking. Let's say you design a woman with full, pretty lips. She wears red lipgloss. That's alright, it's sexy. The sexualization comes in when she sucks on her fingers slowly with bedroom eyes at the camera. Or perhaps sucks on lollipops all the time.
>>88851or other phallus type objects..like big guns
>>88849>male models cultivate muscles and look like they might be athletesThe key word is "look", because most of the exercise body builders do doesn't really make them that physically fit.
>>88851>I'm totally cool with people in videogames being pretty as hell. But you're wrong if you think good looking men in games are sexualized just because they're good looking.This.
>>88851 And that happens how much outside of characters like Bayonetta?
>>88856Metal Gear Solid and Resident Evil 4?
>>88856Dead or Alive
>>88856It's like how you have swimsuit pinups of Samus at the ends of the Metroid games, but not like... speedo Master chief when you finish Halo.
>>88864Or how Mai Shiranui shows off her ninja skills by preparing to goatse people.
>>88865Or how every Soul Calibur game brings Ivy a little closer to having her clothes completely disintegrate off of her body.
>>88864...Speedo Master Chief......Aren't the Spartans mostly machine? I was never very clear on their anatomy.
>>88866I think that one in particular is just stupid and pandering. Seriously, why?
>>88868Sorta.Carbide Ceramic Ossification* Description: Advanced material grafting onto skeletal structures to make bones virtually unbreakable. Recommended coverage not to exceed 3% total bone mass because of significant white blood cell necrosis.* Risk(s): Specific risk for pre-and near-postpubescent adolescents: skeletal growth spurts may cause irreparable bone pulverization. Muscular Enhancement Injections* Description: Protein complex is injected intramuscularly to increase tissue density and decrease lactase recovery time.* Risk(s): 5% of test subjects experience a fatal cardiac volume increase.Catalytic Thyroid Implant* Description: Platinum pellet containing human growth hormone catalyst is implanted in the thyroid to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues.* Risk(s): Rare instances of elephantitis. Suppressed sexual drive.Occipital Capillary Reversal* Description: Submergence and boosted blood vessel flow beneath the rods and cones of the subject's retina. Produces a marked visual perception increase.* Risk(s): Retinal rejection and detatchment. Permanent blindness.Superconducting Fibrification of Neural Dendrites* Description: Alteration of bioeletrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. 300% increase in subject reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity.* Risk(s): Significant instances of Parkinson's Disease and Fletcher's Syndrome.
>>88868No no that's mostly power armor, crazy training, AND SUPER DRUGS!
I mean, I understand the audience they're catering to and all, but it's hard to think a character is badass in any way when she's dressed and posed out so completely impractically. Like, I can buy Cammy fighting in a bodysuit, that's acceptably practical. C. Viper's tit-baring business suit that she fights in while she's wearing high heels, not so much. You cannot possibly look at game art like this and think "yeah, the creators did not intent for this character to be sexualized.
Well, while were on the subject... Have this.
>>88873Crimson Viper wears a specially designed Battle Suit for the tournament, developed and manufactured by S.I.N.. When inquired by an Executive as to the reason for her participation in the tournament, she states that she's the only test subject to utilize 100% of the suit's capabilities effectively, and thus is the prime candidate for the field test. The suit is remarkable in the sense that it resembles an ordinary business suit, though two weapons lurk within the accompanying gloves and boots.The gloves have metal knuckles that can be electrically charged, creating visual arcs of electricity when enough power is supplied; these can stun or damage an opponent quite heavily at higher settings, which combined with Viper's natural speed and agility pose an incredible danger to fighters of all skill and size. The boots hold jets inside the arc between the heel and sole, with a switch on the side of the boot activating the temporary jet propulsion. The boots are capable of granting the wearer a much greater jumping ability, though Viper frequently fires them up and uses them in a defensive kick, burning anyone within distance.The suit does not provide the wearer with any sort of ranged attacks or abilities in the traditional sense as opposed to ki practitioners who utilize attacks such as the Hadoken or the Sonic Boom, but the gloves (when switched to a particular setting) allow for C.Viper to unleash the "Seismic Hammer," a ground explosion from beneath her opponent that she causes by punching the ground with the glove. This is a very deceptive attack, considering it travels beneath the floor. The Battle Suit does not (presumably) protect the wearer from damage; it was designed for stealth and ease of concealment, not Battlefields or War Zones. s.
>>88875Oh don't worry, I don't buy that a super suit would look like that either unless the model she's wearing was the only one functioning and was 2 sizes to small on her for some reason.... The hell kind of super suit doesn't fit itself to the use- Oh... well yeah kinda.BUT THAT'S A SPECIAL CASE!
>>88876I was going to go into how it's actually fairly sexist if you think about how the government is forcing her to dress like a stripper, but I figured I wouldn't waste the space. I'm sure the CIA intends for men to use these suits in the future as well, I can only assume that the tit hole and high heels are crucial enough to the suit's overall integrity that they can't be compromised in the future unisex version.
>>88873Oh, what? A woman can't show off her figure through three layers of clothing, have her breasts spewing out of the top of her shirt specifically tailored for such a purpose, wear a tie that conveniently draws attention to her cleavage, wear six-inch pumps with tight pants and sunglasses indoors at night while feeling herself without being oversexualized?You prudes these days, I swear. You just hate working women.
I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm all for objectifying everything amd all that. I'm sure I appreciate God of War on a level most of the guys playing can't no matter how many topless oracles and titty medusas they throw in, but the official art doesn't look like the creators were ever trying to get people to masturbate to this guy.
...what does it say about a character for whom sexualization is an intentional and vital part of their design?
Or like how Samus somehow loses all her will to look like a badass as soon as her armour comes off. Maybe dropping that protective, figure-obscuring shell makes her feel insecure, and she needs men to tell her she's pretty to feel good about herself when she doesn't have it on.
>>88864I'd totally be down with seeing Mastercheif in a speedo if I got 100% on Halo.
>>88887It's that kind of open mindedness that got us beefcake James Sunderland.
>>88878Sorta unrelated, but once someone pointed out that her moves and battle suit were a reference to Captain Commando, I shat brix.But yeah, what are your thoughts on the slightly-more-reasonable-but-still-not-very-street-fighter-y alt costume?
Most video games are based upon acts of violence. In this way we can simulate all the primordial driven needs to dominate, destroy, and exploit while minimizing any of the psychological or physical damage to a modern society. We are beings that like to have our cake and eat it too, more often than not we prefer to aesthetically pleasing people doing the acts of violence. For a male this usually means masculine (rugged) looks and a large frame which fit well with this type of game. As previously stated previously, the standard of female beauty involves particular fat marbling instead of muscle, mammories that get in the way, hips built for birthing and not endurance hunting etc. This leads to a subconscious discontinuity in violent situations where a person knows that a feminine body frame is likely to get you killed.[1] Couple this with male ego fears where beautiful, assertive women can (unjustifiably) be their superior at their evolutionarily selected lot in life, in the process rendering them mostly obsolete, and you can easily see why games with a female lead will not sell well unless you make her a self parody (Lara Croft) to be drooled at. If you make a female accurately weak as compared to a male protagonist, you're bound to annoy the feminists and have to give them their own skill unique skill set that the male could easily have as well if not for the sake of gameplay balance. There is the option of making a character with a female's body and giving them extra powers, But this defeats the purpose of putting an actual woman in the game, and seems like a social engineering attempt to make women a man's physical equal. I think there a big opportunities outside of violent games where female attributes like cunning, compassion, memory recall, tutoring, intuition, and emotional manipulation could all be implemented well. In many cases, non-violent games it matters not the gender, so there is still plenty of room in the every(wo)man genre.[1]To prevent the shattering of suspension of disbelief, movies or games creators like to type the girl as a sniper because of superior female fine motor control and quicker decision processing, but usually fail to take into account their substandard visual-spatial skills, particularly inertial estimation.
>>88889Definitely a lot more practical looking, though I admit seeing characters fight in high heels always makes my ankles hurt in sympathy. At first I was trying to picture the public outcry if women in the military were told that high heels were going to be a mandatory part of their uniform, but I guess that was silly of me.
>>88891I can't help but imagine the scenario where all the girls in front suddenly break their heels.
>>88894I really have a problem with uniforms that require mandatory high heels, any shoe that can leave you in crippling pain if you get stuck standing for a few hours isn't one that your employer should be forcing you to wear.
>>88884Oh come on. Morrigan is a succubus. Being overtly sexy is a job requirement for her.Also, I just remembered half of Resident Evil and Silent Hill. Survival horrors get away with having female player characters all the time.
>>88897I think he's saying more proportionately strong to the men in the game.Still, it's not like a game needs to be about "tutoring" and "emotional manipulation" to merit a female lead. HEY GUYS, HERE IS MY GAME: PERSON WITH A GUN. IT IS THE FUTURE, RADIOACTIVE ZOMBIE MUTANTS ARE EVERYWHERE. YOU ARE A GIRL WITH A GUN. SHOOT THEM.LOOK OUT FOR NEXT YEAR'S SEQUEL: PERSON WITH A PIPEWRENCH.
>>88900That's because women and children make better PCs for game with rape-monsters.
Is it safe to assume that DMC3 Dante is meant to appeal to the ladies?Or Dante in general?even I swoon a teeeeny tiny bit.no homo.okay, pretty homo. Shit.
>>88917Pretty much yeah. That hair and his chest exposure are basically chick magnets alone.
>>88917Yeah, this kind of lady (check the game she's playing)
>>88881>but the official art doesn't look like the creators were ever trying to get people to masturbate to this guy.You're assuming they'd need to. Case in point.
>>88890This has nothing to do with anything, but the the shooting team at my school is all women, and apparently coaches prefer them partly because they have fewer preconceived ideas about shooting. It was interesting to learn.>>88903Yyyyyyiiiiikes. But seriously, in a game like SH you can see how being a man vs. a woman makes no difference in a revolting nightmare when neither has ever even shot a gun before.
>Master Cheif in a speedo.Time to split!
b-but girls are better than boys :[
>>88922>complaining about "fat" thighs... rly anon? As for female game leads, well.. I have no hope for them. In order for a female protagonist to take off, they'd have to get it past The Committee. The Committee will be like the worst partner for a writing assignment you've ever had. They're fat, they're stupid, they're worthless, their contributions are terrible and take away from the essence and flow of what you're trying to write, and miraculously *THEY* have the ear of your BOSS!You suggest a game taking place in Greece, starring Amazons."COOL WE CAN PUT THEM IN HIGH HEELS AND MAYBE CALL THEM VALKYRIES."You suggest researching historical battle garments of warrior women of the Mediterranean ."FEATHERS, ZIPPERS, BDSM AND BOOBIES."You suggest getting some models that fit the ethnic characteristics of the area, historically."BLOOOONDES. JAPANEEEEESE."You suggest something like a hammer enchanted to be exceptionally easy to handle in her grip."SHE GETS A WHIP. *pantpant*"Perhaps the protagoness could come from a good family and just be badass enough to want to grapple with things herself?"HAY HOW ABOUT SHE'S A SCHOOLGIRL. SHE WAS RAPED AND HER VILLAGE WAS BURNED DOWN? REVENGE!"Maybe she decapitates a minotaur in a really cool action scene, showing off her skills with an exotic weapon."AND THEN SAYS 'GIRL POWER'!"Maybe she finds some magical artifact that puts her on equal footing with her antagonist."WHO IS HER TWIN SISTER. SHE GETS FIRE, HER SISTER GETS ICE. OMG. THE POLARIZATION IS AWESOME!"Perhaps some wayward god outside the traditional pantheon offers their patronage to her."AND SHE FALLS IN LOVE WITH HIM."I'm afraid any compelling female protagonists are going to come from garage game factories and their existences as female characters will always be sex symbols first and badass maybe a distant second, if at all. J-Fantasy kind of set expectations back about pre-60s level.
None of the games being discussed in this thread are by Activision.Why does every thread involving a vagina go so far off track?
>>88933At least we're still talking about video games.
>>88933I will talk about Activision!I fucking hate Activision.In more detail, what shone out most to me like a beacon of suck was the feeling of complacency I got from this news. The idea seems to be "make rehashes of games for our core audience. Any attempts to branch out into something original or reach out to a new audience is VERBOTEN!!". You can bet this ties into the "axe all games that don't have MONEYMAKIN SEQUEL POTENSHUL" rule, too. It just... it sucks. I know all companies are out to get my monies, but to be so cynical, derisive, and so very openly transparent about it just makes me sadface when I think about it. They're like... so the faceless, soulless corporation that doesn't give one shit about videogames for anything but money that it's almost to the point of parody.And they hold the reigns. They take good writers and programmers that they feed them into their generic vidya maker so they can cough out inspirationless brown game starring brown-haired-square-jawed-space-marine #2403 because that rival company made a game like that last year and it sold well.:(And now! On the topic of vaginas. Or more specifically, the excess of female sexuality and dearth of the male type.I am going to generalize here, a lot. So know this before you reply with "But I'M not like that!", I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about what I see to be the majority opinion around the videogame crowd.Woman, as a whole, are pretty okay with female sexuality. Thanks to having tits shoved into their face all the time due to advertising, movies, comics, TV, and more's love of T & A, you show them a lady like Bayonetta and 'sexy=sexist' wackos excluded the response is going to be "eh."Men, on the other hand, tend to freak the fuck out at the idea of male sexuality beyond their own. They'll say it's gross, they don't want to see it, it offends them, only see it as comedy, basically they'll be giant whiny pussies about it. Videogame fans, due to the high teenage boy quotient, bump this up to more extreme levels. While girls will roll their eyes at Lara's ass shots, guys will straight out refuse to play a game full of sexualized men, and that means less money and that means less motivation to make a game like that. Occasionally you'll get a character that manages to balance his male sexuality with his male power fantasy well enough to pass through the radar (sup Dante) but most of the time you're shit outta luck as long as teenage boys are such a percentage of videogame fans. (This goes for male developers, too.)So basically if we want to see more sexualized males we gotta either1. Get more girls to play videogamesor2. Get those guys to grow the fuck up...Both seems pretty hard.
>>88938I like the way you put it....That's all I have to say on this matter.
>>88938I think option 2's gonna be more of a problem. Because even if they get physically older, they'll still be whiny man-children until they die.
What about the characters that seem to become more effeminate with every game?
>>88938 Oh wait there is an over sexualized male, the Gay male of course. Almost anything outwardly portraying gay men have them usually as incredibly flaming queens both on the east and west side of games. But I guess that's eye candy that is protected by no one giving a shit unless they were a fag themselves or a woman would enjoy that either for comedy or erotica so OH WELL.
>>88843Kosh just wanted to let you know that EA actually is working on a project exactly like that. Except probably without the Mech Warrior. They announced it a few months ago (no title). A friend of mine is working on it, hinted it was an attempt to refine the successes of the dialogue system in games like Mass Effect and place them into a social game context like the Sims. Sort of a "Hey let's see if these features work in other games" idea. He refused to get more specific.Or in other words, we're reaching singularity with Japan.
http://www.alphagalileo.org/ViewItem.aspx?ItemId=80450&CultureCode=en
>>88938Hiw abiut both female and male characters are made more normal looking. WIat, never min. Won't sell, guys want sexy tna as a rule, women are drooling over "bishies". Money and people suck. That is all.
>>88873Crimson Viper isn't oversexualized at all. She's just designed to look like a Tarantino/SNK character. High Heels may not be helpful in a fight, but it's just a part of the sharp look the character designer was looking for. For example, >>88889 makes more sense, but it isn't nearly as iconic or pleasing to the eye.Sexualization in Street Fighter is present, but never blatant. Except for Cammy, but she makes it work. Somehow.>>88928In defense of the other side of creativity, let me just say that "the committee" are never the ones dulling characters down and sexing them up. It's the game designers with shit knowledge about character creation or writing who tend to make the "Sex Starved Vixen" and "DURR AKSHUN CHICK" characters so common. Sometimes it takes a guy in the suit to stop everything and say "Hey, this is retarded, try again.">>88938Yeah, you can chalk all of the talk against sexualized female characters in games nowadays up to White Knights, insecure women, and self-loathing nerds (like us!). Many men speak out about oversexualized and one-dimensional portrayals of women because they themselves hate it when Men are shown that way. Of course, there are ways of making appealing characters without getting people to feel insecure, but as I've said before, most game designers and writers are just CompSci majors with their hands in the pot.Pic so related. When you look at all of the stunning and wonderful female characters in this game, you have to stop and wonder why they chose to make Alicia Melchiott so prominent. And I like Welkin Gunther too, but he's kind of a cross between Edward Cullen and Optimus Prime. He's pretty much a flawless human being and leader. He's meant to appeal to you, but it's so obvious when you look at him.
>>88976>Edward Cullen and Optimus Prime>Edward and Peter Cullen
>>88975I actually am a-okay with sexualization in videogames as long as I get some equal representation, be it of sexualized dudes or unsexualized ladies.Why can't I have gratuitous camera angles to ogle and characters to relate with too :(
games arent really that bad in terms of gender politics, especially compared to other mediums
>>88960Is that a vampire?
>>88988No, waiOH GODThe vampire's raping the fairy!
Because only white knights could hate the oversexualization of characters.I don't like it. Especially in characters where it never was strongly present in the first place. Metroid for instance. Sure Samus took off her suit if you beat the game in a couple hours (but who managed that anyway?), but it never was actually part of her character. Now when people think of Samus they think of a pretty blond chic in a skintight blue suit.
>>88976Oh, I'm sorry, I always thought that putting a woman in a suit two sizes too small for her bust and posing her out like she's in the middle of a Maxim cover shoot was usually done with the intent of sexualizing her. Now that I know that's not the case, I totally see what an interesting and deep character she is.And you can't shoulder all the blame for bad designs on designers with their hands down their pants. I've listened to video game character designers do lectures about their jobs and complain at length about how sick they are of having the higher ups tell them to turn all of their designs into swimsuit models in chainmail bikinis. Even guys who seem like they would be totally down with that kind of thing just seem really bored of it.If you ever doubt how leery guys get about seeing men sexualized, just read the comments on that youtube video of a guy using a jackhammer in slow motion. It's like every man between the ages of 11 and 40 has a goblin living in their room that yells derogatory slurs at them if they accidentally look at pecs and don't actively announce how much it has offended their delicate sensibilities.
>>88996I just want you to know how much I enjoyed that mental image.
>>88994Zero suit Samus is no more sexualized than... a chick who is going surfing. What the fuck is she going to wear under that suit?You can't hold Nintendo responsible for the content perverts on the internet make either.
>>88976 I think a good percent relies not from women being somewhat okay with their sexualization but that it has branched out and mutated into various forms. Girls can be attractive in so many ways outside of disgusting fetishes it’s almost impossible for a female character to be ugly to everyone. Tomboys, nerd girls, you don’t need to put a dress or skimpy clothing to make them hot but it helps. Guys on the other hand are stuck in a linear hierarchy of manliness with gruff brown haired super soldiers ruling at the top and as the ideal of all characters. The more you deviate from this rule of cool, the less serious and comical you become. Like all the male protagonists of Metal Gear series. The Boss was an oddity in any game much less a Japanese one and yet she’s both sexy and idolized for being written as a woman of ideals while Snake, Raiden and Big Boss become jokes as soon as they slip away from the perfect action stars they’re supposed to be like Big Boss believing in Santa or that mushrooms “recharge his batteries”. We can accept women being different but not men.
>>89002I've always found it very much the opposite, there is a very narrow range of variation women (faces in particular) are "allowed" to have. Even when you see women in the media who are supposed to be "the ugly one" they're still fairly attractive. (see: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollywoodHomely )
>>88994In the first Metroid game, Samus appeared in a bikini when the game ended. Granted, there weren't many ways to show that she was a woman with the technology at the time, but Samus has always been a one-dimensional suit of armor first, and a one-dimensional pair of tits the next. I never once thought of her as a decent female character.>>88996>Oh, I'm sorry, I always thought that putting a woman in a suit two sizes too small for her bust and posing her out like she's in the middle of a Maxim cover shoot was usually done with the intent of sexualizing her. Now that I know that's not the case, I totally see what an interesting and deep character she is. They could have made her flat chested and it wouldn't have changed much. Her character has always simply been "James Bond-ish spy-slash-Single Mother", and not "Crazed Sexpot" or anything similar. It was just an aesthetic choice.There is another way of looking at it, however. Japanese character designers usually use large breasts and wide hips as a way to denote motherhood (like Selvaria over here).>And you can't shoulder all the blame for bad designs on designers with their hands down their pants. I've listened to video game character designers do lectures about their jobs and complain at length about how sick they are of having the higher ups tell them to turn all of their designs into swimsuit models in chainmail bikinis.I guess you're right. I just figured that these things work out a lot better when both sides communicate, and don't just shut one out our shout orders downwards. This stuff may really just happen because they think consumers are idiots.>If you ever doubt how leery guys get about seeing men sexualized, just read the comments on that youtube video of a guy using a jackhammer in slow motion.Yeah, I was kinda getting at that. Some guys hate seeing women objectified because they hate seeing the same happen to men. Some just don't pick up on the double standard, though, and that's just terrible.I for one have always loved cheesecake, but that's because I have gay eyes.>>89002>The Boss was an oddity in any game much less a Japanese one and yet she’s both sexy and idolized for being written as a woman of ideals while Snake, Raiden and Big Boss become jokes as soon as they slip away from the perfect action stars they’re supposed to be like Big Boss believing in Santa or that mushrooms “recharge his batteries”. We can accept women being different but not men.I hate Hate HATE it when people complain about Raiden. The only "girly" thing about him was long hair, and everyone's biggest complaint seems to be the fact that he acts like a normal person would in his condition. This calls straight back to what Seal-A-Squid was saying about male insecurity.
>>89008I don't understand why people hate Raiden. Okay, so MGS2 is the worst of the series, but it's not HIS fault. He acted like any sane person who went in expecting to fight terrorists and got... that would.If you must hate someone, hate Rose.
>>89008It's not just the suit, it's how they present her. They've drawn her as a pinup. it's the same thing I'm talking about here >>88885 with the pose armoured Samus is striking VS the pose Zero Suit Samus is striking. Look at the way actual female soldiers pose for photos and compare it to almost any piece of kickass-gurl concept art. That's the difference between wanting to be respected at the job you do and wanting to sell shit to teenage boys.
>>89010I have never seen said picture.