Can we talk about this? How do you feel about it? For me, I don't think it's cool at all.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense/
Mixed feelings. Building it there ensures an extended shitfight, but they have the right to. Personally, I'm just going to scratch my chin thoughtfully, grab some popcorn, and watch the ensuing shenanigans. Also, searching for "mosk" and "mosc" on youropenbook.org.
Oh look it's this shit again.
I don't want any muslim building remotely near ground zero. This center they're building, it's not JUST a building for me.
>>268242Are you trolling or are you really this intolerant/ignorant. Someone clue me in.
>>268244I'm a crabby lady today and I'm looking for blood.I AM ANGER
Yeah, I know what you mean.I hate it when building get all grimy with rainwater streaks and no one bothers to fix it. Pisses me right the hell off.I mean, you're a religious building, you don't pay taxes, surely you have enough lying around to buy a damn power-washer and a ladder and clean that shit off.
I never troll on here, Bea. I personally feel that it's disrespectful. I equate it to Anti-gay rallies during the gay pride parade.
>>268235This.I feel conflicted about posting about this, because doing so would just further legitimize this stupid "controversy." A lot of the people against this seem to forget that there is a non-negligible American Muslim population, in NYC particularly. It seems pretty obvious that those opposing this so-called "mosque" don't consider the Muslim population of the country to be "real Americans". Those who go on about "they wouldn't allow a big megachurch in Mecca!" are idiots. I always thought America was supposed to be better, to lead by example, but the way some talk ("we can torture because if our guys were in their hands they'd torture us!") they follow an immature "he started it" philosophy.I have not yet seen anyone opposing the mosque give a concrete reason why. What, are they thinking this building is going to have a secret back room that leads to an underground terrorist training camp? Outrage about things needs to have something stronger than "it sends a bad message."Plus, most people in NYC just don't care. The worst kinds of controversy are those where some group feels so passionate about being offended on someone else's behalf. You'd think that these conservatives, which should be caring about the ability of states to do what they want, would butt out of New York's business and worry about their own middle-America issues.
>>268247Here is why I am disappointed in you and America:1. It's a multicultural center that has a mosque in it among other things2. Not all muslims are terrorists3. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS YOU BIGOT4. Church Street is filled with strip clubs and bars, heaven forbid they build a religious center there 5. Muslims died in the attack on the world trade center too.6. Al Queda is to Islam as the WBC is to Christianity.jesus christ fuck this "i hate scary foreign people shit" there's like, real news to concentrate on like the fact that american soldiers are killing the shit out of civilians in iraq and afganistan but all anyone ever cares about is dem brown people and AMURICA rrraaargghghghg
I couldn't care less.It looks nice and all, but I prefer the architecture of cathedrals.I mean, look at this fucker.
First: It isn't a mosque. It's a community center with a culinary school and a basketball court. If you want to argue "well it's a bunch of muslims therefore it must be a religious center and by extension a focusing lens of Sharia Law and misogyny", there are dozens and dozens of Jewish community centers. Asides from the occasional group of Jews that try to get crosswalks removed because gentile lady joggers "distract" the rabbis and synagogue goers after a service, they aren't exactly plotting our destruction either. Just "keeping to your own" isn't a crime, though it is backwards and retarded.Second: It's in a nondescript building that nobody was buying because of where it is. Business has been fucked since 9/11 and the rich don't want to buy the properties, and the poor barely can.Third: It's nowhere near Ground Zero. For the life of me I just do not understand why alienating muslims and ENCOURAGING them to stick together like aliens in a ship and outsiders to society can possibly be a good idea. And even if it were a mosque, so what? You think they're going to hide bombs and thugs in every basement? There's already like 50+ in the city. One more isn't going to incite sectarian ultra violence, and it isn't part of a coup.
>>268252Also the housing market fucking tanked today but no one cares because MOSQUE MOSQUE MOSQUE CONSERVATIVES PUSHING THIS TALKING POINT MOSQUE MOSQUE CASUAL RACISM AND XENOPHOBIA ndkrjfbweklgfrbewjbfvekrhjbfw
>4. Church Street is filled with strip clubs and bars, heaven forbid they build a religious center there Oh god this. You know all those simplified maps that divide the country into "NYC," "LA", and "flyover space"? I get the sense people in that "flyover space" get the impression that New York is nothing but the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty, and Ground Zero. The fact that they call it the "ground zero mosque" when it's a fair distance away from it just goes to show this.Plus, for all the people bawling about what message this sends to build it, what's the obvious message the RAEG is sending?Now al-Qaeda can point at this and say "Look, the USA really is in a war against Islam, despite all the 'religion of peace' stuff they were saying. Sign right up!"Great job creating terrorists, you un-Americans!
So over in Beirut, the small Jewish community there is trying to rebuild a synagogue there that was damaged during the civil war. Hezbollah is helping them out:>Hussain Rahal, a spokesman for Hezbollah, said his group—which refuses to recognize Israel’s right to exist, and which the West considers a terrorist organization—also supports the restoration of Maghen Abraham.>``We respect the Jewish religion just like we do Christianity,’’ he said. ``The Jews have always lived among us. We have an issue with Israel’s occupation of land.’‘>Arazi said work on the restoration is to begin next month. Meanwhile, his council is already working on plans for its next project: restoring Beirut’s Jewish cemetery, where about 4,500 people are buried.That's right, TERRORISTS are being more reasonable about this shit than the American right wing. Congratulations, assholes.http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNOWKEnqxKdU
>>268244Are you trolling? From where I'm standing you're the intolerant/ignorant one.
>>268260I wouldn't call that /responsible/ so much as a PR stunt to justify itself. Hezbollah are thugs and gangsters.But yes, the bottom line is that they are, technically, funding and supporting those endeavors. I can't help but think the average grunt workers will desecrate the remains out of spite for Jews, though.
>3. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS YOU BIGOT No, just the one constructing it.
>>2682351. It is at ground zero, the building being destroyed to build the mosque was damaged in the attack by an aircraft part.2. It is also a mosque, in fact the floor plan is unknown.3. Nobody is opposing their right to build it, just calling it a bad move and protesting it.In fact, the cracked idiot who wrote it forgot to tell you that his second and third points are mutually exclusive. You can't say it isn't a mosque and simultaneously claim religious rights. You also can't pretend it's an outreach community center when it's obviously insulting the people you're supposedly reaching towards.
>>268266>Codorba House, Park 51I take it those are name for it?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordoba_HouseYeeeep. Well if I have a problem it's that the rendition looks hideous. Seriously did someone draw a chainlink fence building and rub sand on the drawing what am I even looking at here.Like many other "Modern" buildings in my town it's an eyesore. You can build a mosquecommunitycenterwhatever all you like fellas, but for God's/Allah's sake, at least make it look good!
This isn't cool at all!Who on earth would just let that grime sit on such a pretty mosque? And maybe I'm just a little uptight, but I'd definitely polish up those domes, get them to really shine. Pic related, now this is a beautiful mosque.
>>268271dammit it's not even at ground zero, and anyone that insulted by brown people of a different religion is the real insult to American values and shit okaygoddamn I hate this controversy shit, this is now a thread for beautiful mosques
DAT TILING
>>268271Again. Tons of Christian AND Jewish "community centers" do the same thing. Again. It's not specifically a mosque. In their culture, a mosque is a particular building specifically for worship, and a bunch of Muslims coming together to express their faith and their community is not grounds for concern. Next you'll tell us that Country Clubs are hives of domestic terrorism.Again, look at the map. It's not at ground zero. The landing gear went an amazing distance away. The fact it was landing gear does not itself make it a ground zero crash site. The building is ground zero, not where all the debris landed. There are no insults here but imaginary ones.
>>268276>>268271>It is at ground zero, the building being destroyed to build the mosque was damaged in the attack by an aircraft part. it's two blocks away goddamn there's a burger king right fucking next to ground zero >>268270hurrrrr
>>268270Stop angering the bear, you stupid asshole. You'll kill us all.
this one looks fun.
In a practical sense, it's just a fucking building.Regarding the ground zero debate: I believe the person in charge is either a troll or an attention whore. Obviously he knows what symbolism it holds. Obviously he knows about the connection between this and 911. Obviously he plans to do this intentionally despite the fact that there over a million other places he could use. Conclusion: troll or attention whore.Over here, there's actually a law banning them. Me, I couldn't care less, after all: it's just a fucking building, get over it. Sheesh some people are sensitive.
This is one of the few mosques non-Muslims are allowed in. BRB, ABU DHABI
>>268276>>268279>>268278It was destroyed in the attack, how is that not ground zero?I'll say it's a community center when I see people of all races and creeds freely enter it. I'll say it's multicultural when I see crosses and stars of david on the walls with a huge gold buddha in the corner and people of other faiths allowed to worship in the building.Oh, and proof the guy building it is involved with extremism/terrorism:http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26849http://www.douglasfarah.com/article/245/the-muslim-brotherhood-in-america-defined-as-threat-organization-in-dod-memo.comhttp://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdfhttp://www.saneworks.us/uploads/application/88.pdfYou're ignorant because you refuse to view both sides of the argument.>>268266Cool, where is the part where Pelosi advocates an IRS probe for those who oppose the Mosque but says investigating the funding of the Mosque itself is unamerican? I just want to put that on the list.
Something about this one reminds me of the old Byzantine churches I saw in Greece.
>>268287>>268277I'd like to know the philosophy and practicality behind these types of buildings, but I'm not sure where I'd learn about this sort of thing.But dat tiling. srsly.
>>268290>a lot of mosques are converted churches>see: Hagia SophiaThe architect in this case is French
This one's a Catholic cathedral now, but it was built by the Umayyads.
>>268293cool, I didn't know that. Apparently it was an Orthodox basilica.
>>268295I read that as the U MADDS
>>268287Interesting: That little girl at the bottom isn't veiled.
>>268289By that logic, all of Manhatten is "ground zero," as is much of Jersey and anywhere else the pollutant clouds of dust from the fall of the WTC touches. I don't see you petitioning for public and civic renewal projects to deal with all the closed, dirt cheap buildings downtown. The only issue people like you are having with the transaction or event at all is the phobia of Islam. It is a community center. The same way that other groups of religious peoples have community centers. You aren't excluded, technically, but at the same time it's not about you. The same way that a lot of kids who aren't Catholic go to Catholic school, as the academic standards are higher and discipline is more prevalent. You don't have to be Catholic- but it helps.You're confusing 'multicultural' with 'unitarian.'
This one in Malaysia is stunning. More photos here - http://creativemuslims.com/?p=572
>>268300By your logic, the debate would never have risen in the first place. The project would have simply gone unnoticed.
>>268299that's the daughter of the blogger who traveled there. Also, not all Muslims completely veil the younger children.
>>268300Pollutant dust clouds don't destroy buildings. This thing was struck by engine parts from the jets, the very weapons used to bring down the two towers. It is at ground zero.>phobia of IslamYou're being anal.Look, I've stated my opinion on it and even provided links to some facts which helped me form my opinion. If you think I'm somehow ignant or rasis because of that I invite you to flesh out your opinion.
Sikh architecture is purdy nice, too.
>>268300exactly. The problem is these white, Christian, privileged people who live in a society built entirely for them. Whenever other people build a safe-place or whatever for themselves, they view it as an attack, simply because it isn't for them, and they fail to realize that their entire freaking world is for them and makes other people feel unwelcome.It's like when my school tried to get a LGBT club, and the straight kids whined about how they if they didn't have a straight club, we shouldn't have a gay club.
a) you can't see the building from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the building. You have to walk across the street, down a block, and turn right into a complex to get there. It's not "at Ground Zero."b) While the tastefulness of the placement is debatable, that is (inherently) just your opinion.c) This building is as much a mosque as a YMCA is a church. It's a community center. It's a gym and a dance studio where kids can hang out after school. I do not know how this can be connected to terrorism, even if I imagineer really really retardedly.
>>268306>>268289Hold on a sec, I got something for you. Here, take one of these and swallow them with some water.
It's a bad idea in that the visitors will catch no end of shit, but to be honest to the constitution we need to let them have it. One more useless holy place to the pile.
I normally don't chime in on this kind of shit but this time the guy spearheading the mosque/cultural religious center does seem a bit fishy. Even if he's not a terrorist supporter, it doesn't seem as though he's as ecumenical as he'd like people to think. This whole thing is divisive. tl;dr I don't want double talk. I want Bob Loblaw.
1) I'm right2) You're wrong3) See picture
>>268309a) The building itself is part of ground zero, so you can definitively see ground zero from it.b) While it is my opinion, I view the supporters at a level equivalent to supporters of Westboro Baptist Church and will use my vote and freedom of speech to rectify the situation.c) The YMCA doesn't have two floors as a dedicated prayer center. I wonder if gay men are allowed on the dance floor. I provided links above, your opinion on it being "retarded" would make sense if it wasn't a legal link from intelligence services.
>>268311>I'M AN ATHEIST
>>268304What in the hell are you talking about?>>268306Your definition of the term ground zero is wrong.Your first link was full of nothing but rhetoric. Your others are pretty much the standard "boogedy boogedy boogedy!" we either already know or the Fox News affiliates and sympathetics have spun to their best advantage. Or both. There's nothing there to refute but people seeing the glass half Jihad.
>>268318A building destroyed in the 9/11 attacks is in my opinion part of the attack for me and just as symbolic. Perhaps your definition is different, but the majority of America agrees with me.You didn't read the links because you either don't want to be proven wrong or can't bother to gather information for your opinions. It's understandable, but it accomplishes nothing.The "glass half jihad" thing is nice, who thought of it for you?
Almost makes me want to study to be an architect. :9
>>268326>none of the link have sources>my faceanon u trollin
>As we informed you last, we have completed the conversion of SANE into the research and public relations arm of a public interest law firm in association with the Law Offices of David Yerushalmi, P.C. to handle aggressive and offensive pro bono litigation targeting on the one hand the Left-Elite’s effort to undermine if not destroy simply our national existence on the way to the “transnational” one world state and on the other hand the Muslim Brotherhood-Jihadi effort to force the West into a state of dhimmitude such that Shariah dominates our world view if not our actions. These seemingly two polar opposites are in fact convergent and converging at the point of tyranny in the effort to achieve the world state. OH U ANON
>>268331Are you blind?
>>268333http://www.investigativeproject.org/about.phpoh okay ahahaha im cheered up now because holy shit these people actually exist and they are crazyoh god lol the "testimonies" ahahaha
I'm sorry I'm having fun now.?Canada Free Press (CFP) is a proudly independent, 24-7 electronic newspaper, updating several times--and sometimes several hours-- a day. More than 100 writers and columnists file regularly to CFP from all corners of the globe.Although we have been posting to the Internet for more than 12 years, on May 15, 2009 CFP celebrated its fifth anniversary as a daily.>Espousing Conservative viewpoints, cornerstone of which contain love of God, love of family, love of country, CFP maintains a loyal and growing readership.laffooooo
>>268341I take it you're a Leftie.
>>268326A consensus reached by a room full of fools won't make the moon into cheese. I don't care what a group of idiots has to say regarding "symbolism." You want symbolism? Those buildings like the Burlington Coat Factory have been left to rot for a decade. Where were you big, bleeding heart "patriots" all this time that was happening? You certainly weren't being venture capitalists or entrepreneurs and buying them up. You certainly weren't preserving them as part of the history of the place. You didn't care until coincidentally people you don't like decided to buy it and renovate. Symbolically, you people failed. Your links are so full of baseless arguments that the few facts contained aren't worth digging through the spin to address them. If you want your position taken seriously, wipe off the shit and lay it out squarely.
>>268345I'm pretty much a bleeding heart liberal when it comes to most things, yeah. Gun rights are a big exception to that rule. I don't know, politics make me froth at the mouth anymore because america is stuck in a rut and every wants to concentrate on the mundane rather than actual problems that need solving.But the point I'm making is that we could at least pull "proof" from "news" sources that at least pretend not to have a bias.
>>268347Fair enough. I'm a bit farther right than you are, but I mostly agree with you on this.
>>268350That's alright! Pfft. As long as people are reasonable about their beliefs I don't mind. Which is hypocritical because I can be batshit insane about mine sometimes.But still, just be reasonable.
>>268352I agree, but I seem to be running into more and more douchebag athiests.>So what do you believe in?Nothing, I'm an athiest.>Oh. Whatever. You're loss.What about you?>AnglicanPfft, hahaha. Retard.
>>268341>>268339>>268333http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominemYou can't attack the information so you attack the source. It isn't even the source of the documents, but the site HOSTING them.What if I had hosted them on rapidshare?Come to me when you want to know more. If you wish to remain ignorant, that's your choice. If you wish to present your own opinions, you're welcome to.But don't attack the sites on which my information is hosted, it demeans us all.>>268346>You certainly weren't preserving them as part of the history of the place.People tried to make it a landmark in '89, but it was rejected.>aren't worth digging throughIf you are disinterested enough in the topic to avoid reading through a legal document, don't comment on the topic at all.Seriously, don't be a busy body know nothing who touts a baseless opinion, it demeans us all.
>>268354Oh man, theism and atheism are just fine and dandy (until they start stepping on people's rights, of course) but atheists can be righteous assholes when they're trying to prove themselves or whatever it is they do when they start ragging on people for having faith. It's just a different flavor of conversion and just as unsavory.Aggressive college atheists are the worst thing
Who owns the property?
>>268356>What if I had hosted them on rapidshare?They'd be just as worthless as they were before!Don't you think a mainstream news media so hard pressed and determined to declare all Muslims terrorists would have jumped all over your TOTALLY NOT FALSIFIED documents that apparently prove this guy is a terrorist even though to me they say nothing of the sort!Also ad hominem attacks are not always fallacies, whoops! Learn to read!
>>268357It's worse when they think other religions are better because certain things are more badass.I was trying to get my friend to watch Supernatural, since, well, fuck yeah, Superanatural.First episode we watch? Hammer of the Gods.He gets pissed off when all the pagan gods, including Odin (gasp!) are thoroughly curbstomped by Lucifer, chalking it up to "fucking christian writers".I point out to him that if Odin or any of the Pagans were to kill Lucifer, that's it. Story's over. Go home."Whatever. Fucking Christians.">:I
Jesus fucking christ grow the fuck up.All of you.
>>268354I consider myself secular in the Jeffersonian sense and dynamic across political spectrums, depending on the issue. It's no secret that there are anomalies in the Muslim world and the peasants that cheer them on from the sidelines. It's no secret that same peasants are worlds apart when culturally mixed and not starving to death or being displaced by fatwas than the ones who do and are.
>>268358Doesn't matter because we aren't talking about that, we are talking about whether it's moral or not.But I know where you're going with it, you'll say "oh it's their property and they can do with it whatever." Well it doesn't work like that I'm afraid, for example Church lands are seized by eminent domain all the time across USA.
>>268235>>268266These links are really all you need folks. This "controversy" is akin to the Terri Schiavo case in that it has been purpeosly whipped up and twisted every which way so that all of America's attention is on it instead of, say, shit like this>>268266.THE MORE YOU KNOW!On a side note thanks comrade for the mosque pics. DAT ARCHITECTURE!
>[park 51's] design includes a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court, September 11th memorial, and prayer space that could accommodate 1,000–2,000 peoplewikipedia sure is cool!!!>>268361oh geeze>>268358http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho_Properties
>>268359>learn to read>refuses to read documents entered as state evidence>refuses to read extremist book mosque builder is affiliated withVersio vulgata
>>268361Not to mention that, personally speaking, the Judeo-Christian God is one of the most antagonistic gods I know of.
>>268368Wow. That is really badly written.
>>268364>telling others what thier morals areoh anon u trollin and ilu for it I feel much better now.also im not sure you know what that latin phrase means...?
>>268367Evidence is not proof of guilt. Innocent until proven guilty. Argue with the American legal system, not the pullpit.Allegedly affiliated with.
>>268364The difference being that eminent domain is used to foster growth and help deal with problems like needing more roads or a bigger industrial cent. It has a sound purpose in mind when it's done. While this is offensive to some people, there's still nothing wrong with it in a practical sense.
>>268356Please go back to /n/, I am so fucking tired of these threads. They go nowhere but circles and serve nothing except bumping shit we could be discussing rationally instead of arguing like fucking children. You wanna bitch? Do it at City Hall, in the privacy of your home amongst friends and family, or shut the fuck up, because believe it or not, some of us don't care about your hot-button talking points when there are real things to care about in this country outside of our xenophobia.
>>268371I'm questioning the morality of pissing on the graves of 9/11 victims. If you think that's "telling people what their morals are" you're wrong, it's simply stating my morals and calling theirs shit.The phrase means "physician heal thyself".
>>268375You're my favorite.
>>268375>implying no muslims died in the WTC attack
>>268379>not implying that
>>268375>I'm questioning the morality of pissing on the graves of 9/11 victims.
>>268379>Implying much fewer Muslims died during the Attack.Er.R-Right?
>>268381Stop twisting my words, you silly man. What purpose do they have for the land to tell the owners what they can or can't do with it? Other than because it seems inappropriate for it to be there.
>>268379 Muslims die in suicide attacks all the time...>>268393>You don't have the right to tell people what to do with their property>I support eminent domainPick one of the above, you can't have both
So how exactly is building the mosque pissing on the graves of the 9/11 victims?
>>268381I didn't call anyone racist, I said this country is xenophobic. They banned the name "french fries" for a brief time, or was that just some crazy fucking idea I got in my head? America is huge, and the rest of the world is far away, it's easy to become isolationist and have no outside view point. America is afraid of foreigners, it's got nothing to do with black people, brown people or fucking purple people, America hates people from other countries.What I told you to do was shut your stupid fucking mouth and take the thread somewhere people could appreciate all your fucking pissing and moaning about some inconsequential shit that will not only have zero impact on your day-to-day-life, but probably won't have much of an impact on ANYONE'S life.You want to talk about hot-button politics, I get that, I totally know that it's easier to digest and form opinions and bitch about them on the internet when everyone on tv and in the papers is doing the same thing instead of forming opinions on important shit. The problem is, there's at least one of these threads every other week and all they serve to do is piss people off.And the only reason I'm pointing my finger at you is because this shitty thread would've died without your dogmatic ass in here bumping every reply from everyone ever.
>>268395I don't support eminent domain so much as I see purpose and even a little bit of necessity in it's existence. It's like taxes or the military, I don't like them but I don't want to live in a world without them. I'm okay with necessary evils. Now answer my question: What purpose do they have for the land to tell the owners what they can or can't do with it? (Other than because it seems inappropriate for it to be there.)
>>268398USA is made of a conglomeration of dozens of cultures.If you don't like it minimize it, that's what the button is for.
>>268401>You don't have the right to tell people what to do with their property>I support eminent domainPick one of the above, you can't have bothStop repeating comments
>>268395You don't have the right. The federal government does.Your ultimatum is invalid and is now property of the fed. Have a nice day.
>>2684041) You still aren't answering my question.2) Necessity trumps morality in some cases. As there is no necessity to stop the place from being used as a worship center/dance studio, it shouldn't be stopped.
So I guess if you support blocking the building of a mosque near Ground Zero, then you would support blocking the building of a Church by the OKC Bombing location?
>>268402>I have no argument, minimize the thread.Fuck you, buddy. The thread belongs elsewhere. And the white, protestant majority of America, the ones who control the media, they sure don't help to promote the xenophobia. Nope. Americans don't hate foreigners. Not one bit. Uh-uh. They don't complain about Canadians, Mexicans, Muslims, the French, the British, Africans, Jamaicans, Asians, not one bit, never, no sirree.
>>268361and he wasn't offended at the bastardization and trivialization of Christian mythology the whole apocalypse plot relied on? I mean, christians hate that show.ok gonna hide this thread now cause shit has gotten WHACK
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38814397/ns/world_news-africa/?gt1=43001Here. Important news. Important news that you will be ignoring because you're busy crying about a YMCA for sand people.
>>268412>I have no argument, minimize the thread. I thought the entire point was that you didn't want to hear the argument?>>268409Was the OKC bombing for religious reasons?
>>268412Oh, look at that.He thinks he's witty
>Was the OKC bombing for religious reasons?Was the group that perpetrated it still at large?Is there a chance that the group that perpetrated it also funded the "church"?etcYou might say the two are not equivalent comparisons
>>268418>that headlineoh god what noD:
>>268419Yes. The OKC bombing was.
>>268422>Is there a chance that the group that perpetrated it also funded the "church"? >implying the people responsible for building the mosque are also responsible for the 9/11 attacks
>>268418Jesus.
What reason is there to oppose the mosque other than you think it's immoral to allow it to be built because the people who did it were muslim?
>200 women and little boys were raped for four days"Some people like to say Africa isn't a terrible place to live. Those people often don't live in Africa."--Eugene Terre'Blanche
>>268428This, somehow, seems much more important to me. Call me crazy.
>Next to a UN baseWe're already doing something about it I suppose. Besides, it's not just in another state but on another continent. I can't exactly vote it right.
>>268436There is no right or wrong in this situation. It's all subjective.>>268437Islam had been around in the US for a long time before September 11th, and they never did anything and no one really cared until the attacks.
"Just fly a plane into it when its built, blame the Jews afterward."I love you too /k/>>268429Answering that question implies you agree with the second part, very nice troll.On the whole I would give it a 8/10, you could have gotten a 10/10 if you added a picture. You have to consider the medium, and this is an imageboard.
>>268445Of course the people who did the 9/11 attacks were muslim.But stopping them from building the mosque is discriminatory
>>268445>Ask a question>get called a trollI wasn't trolling the only reason I ever see for people claiming the mosque shouldn't be built is because THEY think it's immoral.
>>268448>>268447>Ask a loaded question Very nice.I'll give an example of a loaded question:"Besides having sex with animals, what reason do you have for supporting the construction of this mosque?"
>>268454The difference is>"Besides having sex with animals, what reason do you have for supporting the construction of this mosque?"Makes no sense while >What reason is there to oppose the mosque other than you think it's immoral to allow it to be built because the people who did it were muslim?Is the actual argument being used in this thread in support of the building of the mosque being blocked.
>mfw assholes come to my city to protest something I don't really care about on my behalf.Also,http://youropenbook.org/?q=mosk
Does anybody know who's idea this was? Who's behind the whole thing?I bet you this thing is going to get vandalized really quickly.With this many people hating the idea, it's just a new excuse for people to pick fights.
>http://youropenbook.org/?q=moskI hate people.
>>268468>>268470>Mosk
the victory mosque built on ground zero, right?
>>268475No.
>>268252
>>268263>From where I'm standing you're the intolerant/ignorant oneAre you standing on the fucking moon?
>>268490I'm not even reading this thread but sick burn, dogo/
that place is gonna get firebombed nightly
>>268468There is no q in most languagesIncluding Arabic, it's supposed to be Koran not Quran>>268492lol that wasn't even a burn
>>268263>From where I'm standing you're the intolerant/ignorant one.
>>268532I read that with an Indian accent, for some reason.
>134 posts and 35 images omitted.Christ almighty, /baw/. Fuck it, I'm wading into this shitstorm, and I'm not even bringing an umbrella, ya'll. I'm against it. I'm very anti-Islam. Most Muslims are nice people, like most of pretty much any group (except the Irish). But their religion is inherently incompatible with our society. The whole "Islamic terrorists are to Islam what Westboro Baptist Church is to Christianity" is not an accurate analogy. A better one would be "Islamic terrorists are to Islam what Orthodox Jews are to Judaism", by which I mean the fundamentalists, the jihadists and those who support them, are the ones who actually read the Koran, follow its tenets to the letter, and are the 'true' Muslims. Islam does not have the ambiguity of Christianity or Judaism. With the Hebrew and Christian Bibles you have numerous books by different authors, composed in different centuries and passed on orally for decades-if not centuries-before being written down. The Koran, however, is the work of a single man, Mohamed, and as such bears his imprint, his character. With the Christian Scriptures there are dozens of versions-Latin Vulgate, the Luther Bible, the Douay-Rheims, the New International Translation-and disputed canons; Catholics and Protestants disagree over the Apocrypha. Not so with the Koran. The Koran is the Koran, it is the literal word of God, transmitted from the angel Jibreel (Gabriel) to Mohamed. There is not a single variation, and it is always in Arabic. An English or other translation is just a translation, not *the* Koran. Think about that. The key book of Christianity can be in any language. Biblical scholars can go back to original Greek and Hebrew to clarify wording and historical context and idioms, but its the message that matters. Not so with Islam.Anyway, back to the Koran. Because it is the work of one man, made over a few decades, it's not as ambiguous as the Bible. One could definitely justify murdering homosexuals with Biblical verses, but one could also point to other verses and say that the Old Testament prohibitions against it don't apply, that Jesus' message of love and tolerance, his saving the adulteress from stoning, override the other verses. The Koran, not so much. When it says unequivacally that the testimony of a woman is worth half the testimony of man, it means it. Finally, politics. The Jewish religion is used to its people living in exile and dominion. Christianity, likewise, faced great persecution in its infancy, and its followers believed that Jesus really was going to BRB, so they weren't so concerned with starting a global Christian empire; J.C. was going to come back and kick Caesar's ass and establish the Kingdom of Heaven. Mohamed, however was a *WARLORD* and conqueror. He led raids and oversaw massacres. His religion's goal is a global Islamic state. Islam is a cancer. We don't have to tolerate an ideology devoted to the destruction of democracy and all other religions. >>268440Except, y'know, the U.S.S Cole, the Marine bombing in Beirut, the first attempt to bomb the WTC...
>>268553So you would support legislation that banned the practice of Islam in the US? You're not mentioning anything about "Ground Zero" so I'm assuming that your strong opposition to mosques and Islam has nothing to do with the location, but rather its entire presence in a society with which you say it is fundamentally incompatible.
>>268553The mosque is not being by "fundamentalist muslims" that intend to use it for acts of terrorism.Stopping the building of the mosque is not going to do anything to stop or slow down the spread of that religion. It is not going to stop islamic terrorists in other countries from committing acts of terror. And no, it's not going to help them either. All you are doing by blocking it's construction is discriminating against people based off their religion and strengthening the convictions of people who disagree with you. The mosque isn't going to hurt anyone.
>>268553 >>268557 The thing about those rights is that they go both ways.
>>268553Pro Troll has entered the thread.Anything past this limit is MAXIMUM PRO LEVEL.all haters recommended leave
>>268560Global warming is a terrorist plot created so that we'll buy more thermometers. Their eventual goal is a moderate increase in mercury poisoning.
>>268553You can only punish people for committing a crime, not saying a crime should be committed. Except when it's incitement to commit, but for some reason that only applies to certain situations.
>>268560As much as I wish he was, and I really really do, Tora Dora isn't trolling.
>>268561Mercury poisoning is a leading cause of Islamic mind control.
>>268553If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21I don't see much ambiguity there bro.
>>268566Christianity's great strength is our selective memory. Thou shalt not kill, but thou may eat shrimp if thou hath a hankering.
>>268557Why yes, in fact, I would. Of course, it'd be unconstitutional, but nothing in the constitution proscribes us from, in our nation's immigration policies, banning any further immigration from majority-Muslim nations, or deporting all non-naturalized individuals from those countries, or using zoning laws to prevent the construction of any more minarets. In fact, I'd have done so right on September 12, 2001. >>268558It's the principle of the thing. We have to put our foot down as a nation, cut the bullshit and say "No, it's not a religion of peace, and we're at war with global Islam in this century the way we were at war with global Communism in the last century!" It's a symbolic action for both sides. For them, building that mosque would be a triumph, icing on the cake of the 9/11 attacks. It'd say "Haha, fuck you, Western world! You're so tolerant and PC and spineless it's almost as if you want to lose!"This imam is not some liberal, open-minded, "kindler, gentler, 21st century Islam" guy. He's called on president Obama to acknowledge the legitimacy of Iran's theocratic government, which he praises glowingly (http://www.cordobainitiative.org/?q=content/what-president-obama-should-say-about-irans-election). He wants Muslims in the U.S. to have Shariah courts, to have their own judiciary separate from secular law. His book "What’s Right with Islam Is What’s Right with America" was published in non-English speaking nations as "A Call to Prayer from the World Trade Center Rubble: Islamic Dawa in the Heart of America Post-9/11". "Dawa" is proselytism, but not just "standing on a corner handing out pamphlets" proselytism. "The purpose of dawa, like the purpose of jihad, is to implement, spread, and defend sharia. Scholar Robert Spencer incisively refers to dawa practices as “stealth jihad,” the advancement of the sharia agenda through means other than violence and agents other than terrorists. These include extortion, cultivation of sympathizers in the media and the universities, exploitation of our legal system and tradition of religious liberty, infiltration of our political system, and fundraising. This is why Yusuf Qaradawi, the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and the world’s most influential Islamic cleric, boldly promises that Islam will “conquer America” and “conquer Europe” through dawa." (from: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243536/raufs-dawa-world-trade-center-rubble-andrew-c-mccarthy).Also, why do Muslims like the Fantastic Four?
>>268563Then you've already been trolled
>>268553Islam is only a few hundred years old, and there is tremendous diversity in interpretation. Primarily by warlords who interpret the meanings of the passages to illiterate villagers. Sunni and Shia interpretations of the book are different.There's no arguing that as a religion, Islam does put itself above everything and then encourages people who follow it to convert or fuck off. However, it's only a little more obvious about it than Judaism or Christianity are.It could be argued that Christianity is a composite of a thousand different interpretations of a thousand different passages written by a thousand different people to form one argued canon. You're wrong about it always being in Arabic, you're wrong about it not having a disputed canon, you're wrong about there being no disputed interpretation.Constantinople. The countries that are primarily Islamic that have stepped into the modern world tend to acclimate well. ALL Abrahamic faiths preach that they are the superior people, be it hereditary, spiritual, or cultural, and pretty much say "convert, suppress, or destroy." But it doesn't matter. Modern era apathy and freedom trumps centuries of programming. It was true 200 years ago, it's true today, it'll be doubly true 200 years from now. There's not one sect or branch of Christianity that when literally following the bible, torah or quran aren't somehow obnoxious or borderline dangerous. When properly interpreted by imams and when muslims are encouraged away from radicalism, they do well. When a group of people are taught their religion wrong? You get the Deep Souf. And Catholicism. ;)
>>268571>deleted last response>incoming better image
>>268571Some libertarian you are. Personal freedom my ass. How about instead of saying "NO PEACEFUL ISLAM DOESN'T EXIST GET OUT OF MY AMERICA" you should embrace the idea of a westernized islam that promotes peaceful co-existence. And the things the imam said are no more radical or stupid that some of the more outspoken religious leaders have spouted in this country. Everything in that chunk of text in your post could be applied to radicals in any other religion that is practiced here in America.
My my, what a thread.
>>268570>>268566Hermeneutics? Exegesis? Christians from as early as Augustine distinguished between which laws in the Old Testament were social and tribal customs and which were moral laws from GOD HIMSELF! applicable to all humanity for all eternity. Ten commandments? Moral law, still valid. No shrimp cocktails or pork rinds? Judicial law, old covenant stuff, no longer applicable. Look at the Council of Jerusalem and how the early Church decided it was no longer necessary to practice circumcision, or how Jesus himself violated the Sabbath, ate with prostitutes, Gentiles and tax collectors, and, again, saved an adulteress from stoning even though the Old Law commanded such. Again, Christianity you can argue that women are inferior to men, or should at least be subservient to them (1 Timothy 2:12). Or you could argue that the sexes are equal (Galatians 3:28). There's a lot more wiggle room, doctrinally.
>>268584>implying that all denominations pay attention to religious interpretations over the centuries>implying that there aren't many american denominations that completely cut themselves off of historical religious interpretation by Bro Augustine>implying that there aren't pick and choose Christian literalists who lack the sophistication to know that they're picking and choosing>implying that those people can't themselves be dangerous and organized extremists>implying that Islam doesn't have similar diversity in its believers>implying there can't be moderate or even liberal muslims who you don't hear about in the news everyday because they're just American citizens
>>268576Well, I was simplifying. Grossly, perhaps, but still. I stand by my statements against Mohamed's toxic creed. And yes, I do hope that with time that education (and the related uncertainty the modern understanding of science brings to the theological realm) and the temptations of freedom will win out. I see us now in the throws of growing pains as a civilization and a species. Once Islam ceases to be a major issue, we'll be back on our merry way to global unification and endless technological progress.And digs against the Church don't phase me none, Ramey. I know the Vatican is nothing more than a cabal of pedo-sheltering megalomaniacs desperately clinging to what little power they still command. >>268580One's personal freedom is not without limits, and a society can't tolerate an ideology devoted to its subversion and eventual destruction.And Pablo, I'm not trolling. :)
>>268584 Yaknow, it'd help if you actually knew a bit about the role of Jesus Christ in the Muslim faith and his role in establishing the path of the House of Peace, the concept of aslama, or acknowledged the hilarious irony that fell out from the same things you're basically quoting from the recent Regensburg lectures.Are we done here?
>>268590OOh! OOH! Do you have the give-a-damn to explain these things to me, as I don't have the give-a-damn to look them up.
>>268587Don't make me say it.
>>268592don't ruin this for me man. that cake is adorable and probably delicious despite being halal. ;_;
"Selling military-grade rocket launchers to civilians is perfectly fine, but allowing people to follow their personal version of Abrahamic faith is THE CANCER KILLING WORLD PEACE!"I want to be friends with you TD, but sometimes you make it so hard.
AND THAT'S GAME!Let's check the stats:Idiots and hypocrites: Too goddamn manyPeople who actually know what they're talking about: Too goddamn fewPlay of the Game: Doctor Hal, with his "/thread"-worthy first post.MVP: that one Anonymous (anti-)troll.Fan Favorite: Bea "I'm more than a handful of bear jokes" BeaThanks for playing, I'm ashamed of all of you.