http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense/

Mixed feelings. Building it there ensures an extended shitfight, but they have the right to. Personally, I'm just going to scratch my chin thoughtfully, grab some popcorn, and watch the ensuing shenanigans. Also, searching for "mosk" and "mosc" on youropenbook.org.

Oh look it's this shit again.

I don't want any muslim building remotely near ground zero. This center they're building, it's not JUST a building for me.

>>268242

Are you trolling or are you really this intolerant/ignorant. Someone clue me in.

>>268244

I'm a crabby lady today and I'm looking for blood.

I AM ANGER

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I hate it when building get all grimy with rainwater streaks and no one bothers to fix it. Pisses me right the hell off.

I mean, you're a religious building, you don't pay taxes, surely you have enough lying around to buy a damn power-washer and a ladder and clean that shit off.

I never troll on here, Bea.

I personally feel that it's disrespectful. I equate it to Anti-gay rallies during the gay pride parade.

>>268235
This.

I feel conflicted about posting about this, because doing so would just further legitimize this stupid "controversy."

A lot of the people against this seem to forget that there is a non-negligible American Muslim population, in NYC particularly. It seems pretty obvious that those opposing this so-called "mosque" don't consider the Muslim population of the country to be "real Americans".

Those who go on about "they wouldn't allow a big megachurch in Mecca!" are idiots. I always thought America was supposed to be better, to lead by example, but the way some talk ("we can torture because if our guys were in their hands they'd torture us!") they follow an immature "he started it" philosophy.

I have not yet seen anyone opposing the mosque give a concrete reason why. What, are they thinking this building is going to have a secret back room that leads to an underground terrorist training camp? Outrage about things needs to have something stronger than "it sends a bad message."

Plus, most people in NYC just don't care. The worst kinds of controversy are those where some group feels so passionate about being offended on someone else's behalf. You'd think that these conservatives, which should be caring about the ability of states to do what they want, would butt out of New York's business and worry about their own middle-America issues.

>>268247

Here is why I am disappointed in you and America:

1. It's a multicultural center that has a mosque in it among other things
2. Not all muslims are terrorists
3. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS YOU BIGOT
4. Church Street is filled with strip clubs and bars, heaven forbid they build a religious center there
5. Muslims died in the attack on the world trade center too.
6. Al Queda is to Islam as the WBC is to Christianity.

jesus christ fuck this "i hate scary foreign people shit" there's like, real news to concentrate on like the fact that american soldiers are killing the shit out of civilians in iraq and afganistan but all anyone ever cares about is dem brown people and AMURICA rrraaargghghghg

I couldn't care less.
It looks nice and all, but I prefer the architecture of cathedrals.

I mean, look at this fucker.

First: It isn't a mosque. It's a community center with a culinary school and a basketball court. If you want to argue "well it's a bunch of muslims therefore it must be a religious center and by extension a focusing lens of Sharia Law and misogyny", there are dozens and dozens of Jewish community centers. Asides from the occasional group of Jews that try to get crosswalks removed because gentile lady joggers "distract" the rabbis and synagogue goers after a service, they aren't exactly plotting our destruction either. Just "keeping to your own" isn't a crime, though it is backwards and retarded.

Second: It's in a nondescript building that nobody was buying because of where it is. Business has been fucked since 9/11 and the rich don't want to buy the properties, and the poor barely can.

Third: It's nowhere near Ground Zero.

For the life of me I just do not understand why alienating muslims and ENCOURAGING them to stick together like aliens in a ship and outsiders to society can possibly be a good idea. And even if it were a mosque, so what? You think they're going to hide bombs and thugs in every basement? There's already like 50+ in the city. One more isn't going to incite sectarian ultra violence, and it isn't part of a coup.

>>268252

Also the housing market fucking tanked today but no one cares because MOSQUE MOSQUE MOSQUE CONSERVATIVES PUSHING THIS TALKING POINT MOSQUE MOSQUE CASUAL RACISM AND XENOPHOBIA ndkrjfbweklgfrbewjbfvekrhjbfw

>4. Church Street is filled with strip clubs and bars, heaven forbid they build a religious center there
Oh god this. You know all those simplified maps that divide the country into "NYC," "LA", and "flyover space"? I get the sense people in that "flyover space" get the impression that New York is nothing but the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty, and Ground Zero. The fact that they call it the "ground zero mosque" when it's a fair distance away from it just goes to show this.

Plus, for all the people bawling about what message this sends to build it, what's the obvious message the RAEG is sending?

Now al-Qaeda can point at this and say "Look, the USA really is in a war against Islam, despite all the 'religion of peace' stuff they were saying. Sign right up!"

Great job creating terrorists, you un-Americans!

So over in Beirut, the small Jewish community there is trying to rebuild a synagogue there that was damaged during the civil war. Hezbollah is helping them out:

>Hussain Rahal, a spokesman for Hezbollah, said his group—which refuses to recognize Israel’s right to exist, and which the West considers a terrorist organization—also supports the restoration of Maghen Abraham.

>``We respect the Jewish religion just like we do Christianity,’’ he said. ``The Jews have always lived among us. We have an issue with Israel’s occupation of land.’‘

>Arazi said work on the restoration is to begin next month. Meanwhile, his council is already working on plans for its next project: restoring Beirut’s Jewish cemetery, where about 4,500 people are buried.

That's right, TERRORISTS are being more reasonable about this shit than the American right wing. Congratulations, assholes.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aNOWKEnqxKdU

>>268244
Are you trolling? From where I'm standing you're the intolerant/ignorant one.

>>268260
I wouldn't call that /responsible/ so much as a PR stunt to justify itself. Hezbollah are thugs and gangsters.
But yes, the bottom line is that they are, technically, funding and supporting those endeavors. I can't help but think the average grunt workers will desecrate the remains out of spite for Jews, though.

>3. NOT ALL MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS YOU BIGOT
No, just the one constructing it.

>>268235
1. It is at ground zero, the building being destroyed to build the mosque was damaged in the attack by an aircraft part.
2. It is also a mosque, in fact the floor plan is unknown.
3. Nobody is opposing their right to build it, just calling it a bad move and protesting it.

In fact, the cracked idiot who wrote it forgot to tell you that his second and third points are mutually exclusive. You can't say it isn't a mosque and simultaneously claim religious rights. You also can't pretend it's an outreach community center when it's obviously insulting the people you're supposedly reaching towards.

>>268266
>Codorba House, Park 51

I take it those are name for it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordoba_House

Yeeeep. Well if I have a problem it's that the rendition looks hideous. Seriously did someone draw a chainlink fence building and rub sand on the drawing what am I even looking at here.

Like many other "Modern" buildings in my town it's an eyesore. You can build a mosquecommunitycenterwhatever all you like fellas, but for God's/Allah's sake, at least make it look good!

This isn't cool at all!

Who on earth would just let that grime sit on such a pretty mosque? And maybe I'm just a little uptight, but I'd definitely polish up those domes, get them to really shine.

Pic related, now this is a beautiful mosque.

>>268271
dammit it's not even at ground zero, and anyone that insulted by brown people of a different religion is the real insult to American values and shit okay

goddamn I hate this controversy shit, this is now a thread for beautiful mosques

DAT TILING

>>268271
Again. Tons of Christian AND Jewish "community centers" do the same thing. Again. It's not specifically a mosque. In their culture, a mosque is a particular building specifically for worship, and a bunch of Muslims coming together to express their faith and their community is not grounds for concern. Next you'll tell us that Country Clubs are hives of domestic terrorism.

Again, look at the map. It's not at ground zero. The landing gear went an amazing distance away. The fact it was landing gear does not itself make it a ground zero crash site. The building is ground zero, not where all the debris landed.

There are no insults here but imaginary ones.

>>268276
>>268271

>It is at ground zero, the building being destroyed to build the mosque was damaged in the attack by an aircraft part.

it's two blocks away goddamn there's a burger king right fucking next to ground zero

>>268270

hurrrrr

>>268270
Stop angering the bear, you stupid asshole. You'll kill us all.

this one looks fun.

In a practical sense, it's just a fucking building.

Regarding the ground zero debate: I believe the person in charge is either a troll or an attention whore. Obviously he knows what symbolism it holds. Obviously he knows about the connection between this and 911. Obviously he plans to do this intentionally despite the fact that there over a million other places he could use. Conclusion: troll or attention whore.

Over here, there's actually a law banning them. Me, I couldn't care less, after all: it's just a fucking building, get over it. Sheesh some people are sensitive.

This is one of the few mosques non-Muslims are allowed in.

BRB, ABU DHABI

>>268276
>>268279
>>268278
It was destroyed in the attack, how is that not ground zero?

I'll say it's a community center when I see people of all races and creeds freely enter it. I'll say it's multicultural when I see crosses and stars of david on the walls with a huge gold buddha in the corner and people of other faiths allowed to worship in the building.

Oh, and proof the guy building it is involved with extremism/terrorism:

http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/26849
http://www.douglasfarah.com/article/245/the-muslim-brotherhood-in-america-defined-as-threat-organization-in-dod-memo.com
http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/20.pdf
http://www.saneworks.us/uploads/application/88.pdf

You're ignorant because you refuse to view both sides of the argument.

>>268266
Cool, where is the part where Pelosi advocates an IRS probe for those who oppose the Mosque but says investigating the funding of the Mosque itself is unamerican? I just want to put that on the list.

Something about this one reminds me of the old Byzantine churches I saw in Greece.

>>268287
>>268277
I'd like to know the philosophy and practicality behind these types of buildings, but I'm not sure where I'd learn about this sort of thing.

But dat tiling. srsly.

>>268290
>a lot of mosques are converted churches
>see: Hagia Sophia
The architect in this case is French

This one's a Catholic cathedral now, but it was built by the Umayyads.

>>268293
cool, I didn't know that. Apparently it was an Orthodox basilica.

>>268295
I read that as the U MADDS

>>268287
Interesting: That little girl at the bottom isn't veiled.

>>268289
By that logic, all of Manhatten is "ground zero," as is much of Jersey and anywhere else the pollutant clouds of dust from the fall of the WTC touches. I don't see you petitioning for public and civic renewal projects to deal with all the closed, dirt cheap buildings downtown. The only issue people like you are having with the transaction or event at all is the phobia of Islam.

It is a community center. The same way that other groups of religious peoples have community centers. You aren't excluded, technically, but at the same time it's not about you. The same way that a lot of kids who aren't Catholic go to Catholic school, as the academic standards are higher and discipline is more prevalent. You don't have to be Catholic- but it helps.

You're confusing 'multicultural' with 'unitarian.'

This one in Malaysia is stunning. More photos here - http://creativemuslims.com/?p=572

>>268300
By your logic, the debate would never have risen in the first place. The project would have simply gone unnoticed.

>>268299
that's the daughter of the blogger who traveled there. Also, not all Muslims completely veil the younger children.

>>268300
Pollutant dust clouds don't destroy buildings. This thing was struck by engine parts from the jets, the very weapons used to bring down the two towers. It is at ground zero.

>phobia of Islam
You're being anal.

Look, I've stated my opinion on it and even provided links to some facts which helped me form my opinion. If you think I'm somehow ignant or rasis because of that I invite you to flesh out your opinion.

Sikh architecture is purdy nice, too.

>>268300
exactly.

The problem is these white, Christian, privileged people who live in a society built entirely for them. Whenever other people build a safe-place or whatever for themselves, they view it as an attack, simply because it isn't for them, and they fail to realize that their entire freaking world is for them and makes other people feel unwelcome.

It's like when my school tried to get a LGBT club, and the straight kids whined about how they if they didn't have a straight club, we shouldn't have a gay club.

a) you can't see the building from Ground Zero, nor can you see Ground Zero from the building. You have to walk across the street, down a block, and turn right into a complex to get there. It's not "at Ground Zero."

b) While the tastefulness of the placement is debatable, that is (inherently) just your opinion.

c) This building is as much a mosque as a YMCA is a church. It's a community center. It's a gym and a dance studio where kids can hang out after school. I do not know how this can be connected to terrorism, even if I imagineer really really retardedly.

>>268306
>>268289

Hold on a sec, I got something for you.
Here, take one of these and swallow them with some water.

It's a bad idea in that the visitors will catch no end of shit, but to be honest to the constitution we need to let them have it.

One more useless holy place to the pile.

I normally don't chime in on this kind of shit but this time the guy spearheading the mosque/cultural religious center does seem a bit fishy. Even if he's not a terrorist supporter, it doesn't seem as though he's as ecumenical as he'd like people to think. This whole thing is divisive.

tl;dr I don't want double talk. I want Bob Loblaw.

1) I'm right
2) You're wrong
3) See picture

>>268309
a) The building itself is part of ground zero, so you can definitively see ground zero from it.

b) While it is my opinion, I view the supporters at a level equivalent to supporters of Westboro Baptist Church and will use my vote and freedom of speech to rectify the situation.

c) The YMCA doesn't have two floors as a dedicated prayer center. I wonder if gay men are allowed on the dance floor. I provided links above, your opinion on it being "retarded" would make sense if it wasn't a legal link from intelligence services.

>>268311
>I'M AN ATHEIST

>>268304
What in the hell are you talking about?
>>268306
Your definition of the term ground zero is wrong.
Your first link was full of nothing but rhetoric. Your others are pretty much the standard "boogedy boogedy boogedy!" we either already know or the Fox News affiliates and sympathetics have spun to their best advantage. Or both. There's nothing there to refute but people seeing the glass half Jihad.

>>268318
A building destroyed in the 9/11 attacks is in my opinion part of the attack for me and just as symbolic. Perhaps your definition is different, but the majority of America agrees with me.

You didn't read the links because you either don't want to be proven wrong or can't bother to gather information for your opinions. It's understandable, but it accomplishes nothing.
The "glass half jihad" thing is nice, who thought of it for you?

Almost makes me want to study to be an architect.
:9

>>268326

>none of the link have sources

>my face

anon u trollin

>As we informed you last, we have completed the conversion of SANE into the research and public relations arm of a public interest law firm in association with the Law Offices of David Yerushalmi, P.C. to handle aggressive and offensive pro bono litigation targeting on the one hand the Left-Elite’s effort to undermine if not destroy simply our national existence on the way to the “transnational” one world state and on the other hand the Muslim Brotherhood-Jihadi effort to force the West into a state of dhimmitude such that Shariah dominates our world view if not our actions. These seemingly two polar opposites are in fact convergent and converging at the point of tyranny in the effort to achieve the world state.

OH U ANON

>>268331
Are you blind?

>>268333

http://www.investigativeproject.org/about.php

oh okay ahahaha im cheered up now because holy shit these people actually exist and they are crazy

oh god lol the "testimonies" ahahaha

I'm sorry I'm having fun now.

?Canada Free Press (CFP) is a proudly independent, 24-7 electronic newspaper, updating several times--and sometimes several hours-- a day. More than 100 writers and columnists file regularly to CFP from all corners of the globe.

Although we have been posting to the Internet for more than 12 years, on May 15, 2009 CFP celebrated its fifth anniversary as a daily.

>Espousing Conservative viewpoints, cornerstone of which contain love of God, love of family, love of country, CFP maintains a loyal and growing readership.

laffooooo

>>268341
I take it you're a Leftie.

>>268326
A consensus reached by a room full of fools won't make the moon into cheese. I don't care what a group of idiots has to say regarding "symbolism." You want symbolism? Those buildings like the Burlington Coat Factory have been left to rot for a decade. Where were you big, bleeding heart "patriots" all this time that was happening? You certainly weren't being venture capitalists or entrepreneurs and buying them up. You certainly weren't preserving them as part of the history of the place. You didn't care until coincidentally people you don't like decided to buy it and renovate. Symbolically, you people failed.

Your links are so full of baseless arguments that the few facts contained aren't worth digging through the spin to address them. If you want your position taken seriously, wipe off the shit and lay it out squarely.

>>268345

I'm pretty much a bleeding heart liberal when it comes to most things, yeah. Gun rights are a big exception to that rule. I don't know, politics make me froth at the mouth anymore because america is stuck in a rut and every wants to concentrate on the mundane rather than actual problems that need solving.

But the point I'm making is that we could at least pull "proof" from "news" sources that at least pretend not to have a bias.

>>268347
Fair enough. I'm a bit farther right than you are, but I mostly agree with you on this.

>>268350

That's alright! Pfft. As long as people are reasonable about their beliefs I don't mind. Which is hypocritical because I can be batshit insane about mine sometimes.

But still, just be reasonable.

>>268352
I agree, but I seem to be running into more and more douchebag athiests.

>So what do you believe in?
Nothing, I'm an athiest.
>Oh. Whatever. You're loss.
What about you?
>Anglican
Pfft, hahaha. Retard.

>>268341
>>268339
>>268333
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
You can't attack the information so you attack the source. It isn't even the source of the documents, but the site HOSTING them.
What if I had hosted them on rapidshare?

Come to me when you want to know more. If you wish to remain ignorant, that's your choice. If you wish to present your own opinions, you're welcome to.

But don't attack the sites on which my information is hosted, it demeans us all.

>>268346
>You certainly weren't preserving them as part of the history of the place.
People tried to make it a landmark in '89, but it was rejected.

>aren't worth digging through
If you are disinterested enough in the topic to avoid reading through a legal document, don't comment on the topic at all.

Seriously, don't be a busy body know nothing who touts a baseless opinion, it demeans us all.

>>268354

Oh man, theism and atheism are just fine and dandy (until they start stepping on people's rights, of course) but atheists can be righteous assholes when they're trying to prove themselves or whatever it is they do when they start ragging on people for having faith. It's just a different flavor of conversion and just as unsavory.

Aggressive college atheists are the worst thing

Who owns the property?

>>268356

>What if I had hosted them on rapidshare?

They'd be just as worthless as they were before!

Don't you think a mainstream news media so hard pressed and determined to declare all Muslims terrorists would have jumped all over your TOTALLY NOT FALSIFIED documents that apparently prove this guy is a terrorist even though to me they say nothing of the sort!

Also ad hominem attacks are not always fallacies, whoops! Learn to read!

>>268357
It's worse when they think other religions are better because certain things are more badass.

I was trying to get my friend to watch Supernatural, since, well, fuck yeah, Superanatural.

First episode we watch? Hammer of the Gods.
He gets pissed off when all the pagan gods, including Odin (gasp!) are thoroughly curbstomped by Lucifer, chalking it up to "fucking christian writers".
I point out to him that if Odin or any of the Pagans were to kill Lucifer, that's it. Story's over. Go home.
"Whatever. Fucking Christians."
>:I

Jesus fucking christ grow the fuck up.

All of you.

>>268354
I consider myself secular in the Jeffersonian sense and dynamic across political spectrums, depending on the issue.
It's no secret that there are anomalies in the Muslim world and the peasants that cheer them on from the sidelines. It's no secret that same peasants are worlds apart when culturally mixed and not starving to death or being displaced by fatwas than the ones who do and are.

>>268358
Doesn't matter because we aren't talking about that, we are talking about whether it's moral or not.

But I know where you're going with it, you'll say "oh it's their property and they can do with it whatever." Well it doesn't work like that I'm afraid, for example Church lands are seized by eminent domain all the time across USA.

>>268235
>>268266
These links are really all you need folks. This "controversy" is akin to the Terri Schiavo case in that it has been purpeosly whipped up and twisted every which way so that all of America's attention is on it instead of, say, shit like this>>268266.

THE MORE YOU KNOW!

On a side note thanks comrade for the mosque pics. DAT ARCHITECTURE!

>[park 51's] design includes a 500-seat auditorium, theater, performing arts center, fitness center, swimming pool, basketball court, childcare area, bookstore, culinary school, art studio, food court, September 11th memorial, and prayer space that could accommodate 1,000–2,000 people

wikipedia sure is cool!!!

>>268361

oh geeze

>>268358

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho_Properties

>>268359
>learn to read

>refuses to read documents entered as state evidence
>refuses to read extremist book mosque builder is affiliated with

Versio vulgata

>>268361
Not to mention that, personally speaking, the Judeo-Christian God is one of the most antagonistic gods I know of.

>>268368
Wow. That is really badly written.

>>268364

>telling others what thier morals are

oh anon u trollin and ilu for it I feel much better now.

also im not sure you know what that latin phrase means...?

>>268367
Evidence is not proof of guilt. Innocent until proven guilty. Argue with the American legal system, not the pullpit.
Allegedly affiliated with.

>>268364
The difference being that eminent domain is used to foster growth and help deal with problems like needing more roads or a bigger industrial cent. It has a sound purpose in mind when it's done. While this is offensive to some people, there's still nothing wrong with it in a practical sense.

>>268356

Please go back to /n/, I am so fucking tired of these threads. They go nowhere but circles and serve nothing except bumping shit we could be discussing rationally instead of arguing like fucking children. You wanna bitch? Do it at City Hall, in the privacy of your home amongst friends and family, or shut the fuck up, because believe it or not, some of us don't care about your hot-button talking points when there are real things to care about in this country outside of our xenophobia.

>>268371
I'm questioning the morality of pissing on the graves of 9/11 victims. If you think that's "telling people what their morals are" you're wrong, it's simply stating my morals and calling theirs shit.

The phrase means "physician heal thyself".

>>268375

You're my favorite.

>>268375
>implying no muslims died in the WTC attack

>>268379
>not implying that

>>268375

>I'm questioning the morality of pissing on the graves of 9/11 victims.

>>268379
>Implying much fewer Muslims died during the Attack.
Er.
R-Right?

>>268381
Stop twisting my words, you silly man. What purpose do they have for the land to tell the owners what they can or can't do with it? Other than because it seems inappropriate for it to be there.

>>268379
Muslims die in suicide attacks all the time...

>>268393
>You don't have the right to tell people what to do with their property
>I support eminent domain
Pick one of the above, you can't have both

So how exactly is building the mosque pissing on the graves of the 9/11 victims?

>>268381

I didn't call anyone racist, I said this country is xenophobic. They banned the name "french fries" for a brief time, or was that just some crazy fucking idea I got in my head? America is huge, and the rest of the world is far away, it's easy to become isolationist and have no outside view point. America is afraid of foreigners, it's got nothing to do with black people, brown people or fucking purple people, America hates people from other countries.

What I told you to do was shut your stupid fucking mouth and take the thread somewhere people could appreciate all your fucking pissing and moaning about some inconsequential shit that will not only have zero impact on your day-to-day-life, but probably won't have much of an impact on ANYONE'S life.

You want to talk about hot-button politics, I get that, I totally know that it's easier to digest and form opinions and bitch about them on the internet when everyone on tv and in the papers is doing the same thing instead of forming opinions on important shit. The problem is, there's at least one of these threads every other week and all they serve to do is piss people off.

And the only reason I'm pointing my finger at you is because this shitty thread would've died without your dogmatic ass in here bumping every reply from everyone ever.

>>268395
I don't support eminent domain so much as I see purpose and even a little bit of necessity in it's existence. It's like taxes or the military, I don't like them but I don't want to live in a world without them. I'm okay with necessary evils. Now answer my question: What purpose do they have for the land to tell the owners what they can or can't do with it? (Other than because it seems inappropriate for it to be there.)

>>268398
USA is made of a conglomeration of dozens of cultures.

If you don't like it minimize it, that's what the button is for.

>>268401

>You don't have the right to tell people what to do with their property
>I support eminent domain
Pick one of the above, you can't have both

Stop repeating comments