Got a problem with the way something was handled in the series? Have a complaint about the fandom? Or maybe you just want an all-out shipping war? Prepare your arguments, ready your objections, and let's debate about it. Just try to keep it above the belt.
And since I started the thread, I'll go first. I noticed an Anon in another thread had a problem with Zuko's confidence in dealing with Azula during their Agni Kai. I'd argue that the way things were going, Zuko might have actually won if it weren't for two stupid moves. One on his part, one on Katara's. First, taunting Azula to shoot lightning at him. That's a no-no. You think he'd realize the Fatherlord would have informed his daughter that Zuko now possessed this new ability and that his goading her into using it would only backfire on him. And two... why the hell did Katara randomly decide to show up when she'd been out of harm's way for most of the fight? I know, plot point, but I still wish there was a logical explanation for that. But if she hadn't gotten in the way, and Zuko didn't get so damn cocky, I think there's a chance he could have won.
Did you miss the part where he knocked her to the ground and had mastered the lightning redirection? Had she shot at him, he would have killed her. He did win.
>>78157What does it matter if Azula knew that Zuko could redirect lighting? She was going to do it.That was a smart move because he's using her strength against her.
>>78157Azula was insane at this point, her dad's warning would have been ignored. And what was Katara going to do? Stand a mile away? It wasn't like she was in the middle of the freaking fight. She was a spectator, and with the Fire Nation's obsession with honor, no one would expect a person to attack a member of the audience.
>>78164OK, how about a crazy lunatic who shouts "I'LL SHOW YOU LIGHTING"?That should be a massive signal to keep your head down, not run out to have a look. And who said she needed to be a mile away, how about going back to where she was?
So what do YOU think of Fire Lord Zuko helping serve at the Jasmine Dragon? Our little friend dietotaku once bitched "Fire Lords DO NOT SERVE TEA!!!" as a complaint about the finale. You think there's some validity in the statement or can the Fire Lord do whatever the Fire Lord damn well pleases even if it happens to be serving tea? Personally I stick strongly by the latter.
>>78167I think he's got more important things to be doing.
>>78167Eh, Zuko doesn't need to be working 24/7 (or whatever hours and weeks are in the Avatar world). And if he's taking a break, he's not one to demand formalities and palanquin rides and servants at his beck and call. That's Azula's thing.Therefore dietotaku is an Azula sympathizer and should be imprisoned for crimes against the Fire Nation :3c
>>78157I have a feeling you're talking about my complaint, and that's not what I was talking about. If not, then ignore this sentence and take this as another whining.I had a problem with Zuko saying "I can handle her. She's slipping," or something to that effect, implying that the only reason why he's able to beat her is because she is losing her sanity and not because he mastered firebending or anything like that, no. But because she's slipping. Had she not been "slipping," Zuko would have inevitably lost because she wouldn't have physically (and mentally) exhausted herself so quickly.>>78168It was just after the war. They were celebrating.
>>78175My thoughts exactly. Serving tea to his BFFs and helping Iroh are hardly "beneath" the kind of guy Zuko turned out to be. And the more I think about it the more this scene is proof of his development coming full circle. He's finally learned what it is to be part of a nakama.(aka I'm reading way too much into things but whatever XD)
>>78187But she (likely) knows that he was able redirect lighting and once again outsmarted him.As much as Azula underestimated his firebending, Zuko himself overestimated his redirecting skill. Did he thought that she would try to hit him directly and give them a good chance to redirect?What if she tried to hit the groud around him?
Before the finale, I always figured Azula would shoot lighting toward Zuko, and Zuko would then redirect the lighting back at her. Azula, in either a very arrogant or crazed state, would then try to redirect the already redirected lighting herself without knowing how to do it properly, going off only what Ozai told her, and her seeing Zuko do it right beforehand. Then, not having heard Iroh's warning to Zuko or Zuko's warning to Aang about letting it go through the stomach and not the heart, she would have ended up frying her heart and that's how the fight would have ended. I'm not saying it had to end that way, and really it's a minor detail, but they kind of just threw that whole "if it goes through your heart and not your stomach ur pretty fucked lolk?" thing out there and never really did anything with it.
>>78257I had the same line of thought.
>>78167Given a choice between Fire Lord Iroh and Fire Lord Ozai, I would take Iroh every time.That's about all that needs to be said on the topic of tea-serving I think.
>>78257I had the same criticism as you (why did they throw the stomach-not-heart thing out there) for a long time, but upon rewatching the finale, it looked to me like part of the reason Zuko fell was that he took the lightning to his heart and as such was not able to properly redirect it...? We see a big bolt of lightning fly up into the sky after he's struck, so I figure he tried to redirect but missed passing it through his stomach so...you know...injury. I dunno. That's what it looked like to me.
>>78274I think the official explanation, and they kinda mention this in the commentary, is that Zuko didn't redirect it correctly because of how he caught it, and was only able to toss out some of it (you see that when the bolt flies upward shortly after he catches it,) which is why he didn't die outright.
>>78277Gotcha. Thanks.
I finished watching the series recently and I still don't get what was Zuko's intend with the Blue Spirit. Like, did he had a multiple personality disorder or what?
I don't really know if this is a "debate," but what's up with how Katara and Sokka's skintone kept lightening as the series went on? Seriously, by the finale Katara seemed only slightly darker than the others, instead of the tone back in seasons 1 and 2.I miss delicious brown girl
>>78339I wasn't so sure about this, but I did some visual comparisons and you seem to be right. It's subtle, but it's there. Of course, it could have just been the examples I chose.Along those lines, I always felt that giving Katara and Sokka blue eyes was a bit of a whitewash.
>>78339>>78361I'm compiling a more comprehensive comparison, but something I was telling Mari about Katara's skin-tone in particular. It doesn't get lighter, Piandao.org seriously messes with the colors of the show.It's part of why I don't like to rely on the place for screencaps/references as much when it comes to color.They stay delicious brown through their entire run, rest easy.(Edit: Sorry, left is from my DVD, right is Piandao.org. Just want to make that clear.)
>>78391You're... you're right! I see it now! But you've got to believe me, I didn't know! I DIDN'T KNOOOOOOWWWW
>>78167Dietotaku is just a bitch who should be ignored. I like the idea of Zuko still serving tea because it keeps him humble, which in turn makes him a better Fire Lord. I like how that was addressed in the series, how Zuko told his father that banishment was actually good for him. Had he simply ascended to the throne, even if he thought the war was a bad idea, he wouldn't rule the same way he does now after having been out in the world and having the chance to see how people outside the palace are living.>>78175>spoilerLOL!>>78176Yes it was your comment, and I see your point now. I didn't get what you were saying before.>>78183I might be able to accept these explanations. And the second one especially helps, since I was so annoyed about Katara just showing up for no reason.>>78339I noticed this too, but I didn't want to say anything lest I be accused of bringing up race debates anywhere but the movie thread.>>78391Wow, they really need to adjust the color there. But I think I've noticed it in a few actual episodes too, not just screenshots. Then again, there are times when it's hard to tell with the lighting used throughout the series.
>>78167>"Fire Lords DO NOT SERVE TEA!!!"He does if he just lost a humiliating bet with Sokka!
>>78417>>78417And he'll rub feet if he just lost a humiliating bet with Katara. Not quite Firelord at that point, but same idea.
>>78167Zuko's story in the second season wasn't just plot padding. While Zuko's clearly got better ideals than his father from the beginning of the series, he still has the potential to turn into a tyrant like his father or his sister due to his arrogance. His experiences in the second season humbled him and showed him the trials of being a peasant and a refugee. The arrogance of the Fire Nation and its Fire Lords is precisely the sort of thing that got the war started, with Sozin trying to export his cultural sophistication justifying his wars of genocide and conquest.In seeing Zuko serving tea at the finale, we see that he has taken the lessons of his uncle and his experiences to heart, and that even though democracy hasn't exactly come to the world of Avatar, a wise and humble despot is precisely the thing that the Fire Nation needs.TL;DR: Humility good. Arrogance bad. teagirls great.
Was Aang's hair growth a metaphor for the onset of puberty?Seriously. I've been thinking about this for days. What do you think +/a/?
>>78482Him not re-shaving, which he probably wanted to, until he could was one of those ways he had to hide who he was (to keep up the charade that he was dead) which was what he was so upset about.Like him burning his glider.
>>78482mind=blown
>>78486Yes, but I believe we could also view at symbolically. If anything, the burning of the glider is even more symbolic: Aang must put away this child's toy, and deal with his problems in a mature way. In short, he must become a man.
>>78488It's time to put away childish things...and become a man!
>>78488>>78490I've been waiting for an opportunity to post this again.
>>78162>>78163Point of order: Azula was crazy, not stupid.I think the odds were good that she would not hit him directly but aim at the ground near his feet (superheated flagstone shrapnel for the win)) if Katara had not gotten her attention.>>78167Taking a vacation is permissable, and he may have had a meeting with the Earth King anyway.
Sorry to resurrect the thread. I'm wondering about the show's creators and how aware they were of Zutarans. They seemed to be mocking them openly in the Ember Island Players, but then in the finale they almost seemed to spoonfeed subtext into hungry Zutaran mouths. Did they do it on purpose? Wouldn't it have made more sense for Toph to go with Zuko anyway?
>>82259They knew about Zutarans. Oh, but they knew. They even smashed together a bunch of fanart into a small movie just to parody them and showed it at SDCC that year.
>>82259>>Wouldn't it have made more sense for Toph to go with Zuko anyway?<<I actually love that idea, but if the scenario repeated itself with Zuko taking the blow for Toph, he'd be a hell of a lot more fucked since Toph can't heal. :/
I don't know about Toph. Azula is able to fly, she can become virtually invisible to her. Katara is also more experienced in fighting Azula, she was kicking her ass in season 2 finale.
>>82259Creators definitely knew. I just finished watching S3 episode commentary, Mike and Brian were pretty much openly mocking Zutarans. And shipping in general.>>82278Since Azula needs to fly by using BLUE JET ROCKETS that are pretty loud I doubt Azula becomes invisible to Toph's hearing. Toph just can't 'feel' Azula on the earth.This is such a minor nitpick, but I really hate these smiles. This is all from the same episode.
>>82284:3
>>82284I always wanted to do a visual comparison of the different animation studios that worked on the show. Anyone know where I can find out info on which animation studio worked on which episodes?
>>82287http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/episode_guide.phpLook under "episode details". I'm pretty sure everything is done by two studios: JM Animation or Moi Animation.They didn't do the last couple episodes because when the series ended the site pretty much stopped updating. You can just look in the credits for them if you have the DVDs; it's shown pretty clearly toward the end.
>>82290Guess I'll pass on making that chart then. Thanks for the link anyway.
>>82287From what I've noticed, Moi Animation seems to use more angular character designs.
>>82290>Look under "episode details". I'm pretty sure everything is done by two studios: JM Animation or Moi Animation.Moi didn't come onboard until season 3. DR Movie and JM did the animation for the first two seasons. DR Movie is responsible for the hinky animation in episodes like Return to Omashu, The Chase, and Bitter Work. They also did the animation for The Guru, which was referenced above.Taken from the credits:The Boy In the Iceberg JM Animation Co., LTDThe Avatar Returns JM Animation Co., LTDThe Southern Air Temple DR MovieThe Warriors of Kyoshi JM Animation Co., LTDThe King of Omashu DR MovieImprisoned JM Animation Co., LTDWinter Solstice, Part 1 (The Spirit World) DR MovieWinter Solstice, Part 2 (Avatar Roku) DR MovieThe Waterbending Scroll JM Animation Co., LTDJet JM Animation Co., LTDThe Great Divide DR MovieThe Storm JM Animation Co., LTDThe Blue Spirit DR MovieThe Fortuneteller JM Animation Co., LTDBato of the Water Tribe DR MovieThe Deserter JM Animation Co., LTDThe Northern Air Temple DR MovieThe Waterbending Master JM Animation Co., LTDThe Siege of the North, Part 1 JM Animation Co., LTDThe Siege of the North, Part 2 DR MovieThe Avatar State DR MovieThe Cave of Two Lovers JM Animation Co., LTDReturn To Omashu DR MovieThe Swamp JM Animation Co., LTDAvatar Day DR MovieThe Blind Bandit JM Animation Co., LTDZuko Alone JM Animation Co., LTDThe Chase DR MovieBitter Work DR MovieThe Library JM Animation Co., LTDThe Desert DR MovieThe Serpent's Pass JM Animation Co., LTDThe Drill DR MovieCity of Walls And Secrets JM Animation Co., LTDTales of Ba Sing Se DR MovieAppa's Lost Days JM Animation Co., LTDLake Laogai DR MovieThe Earth King JM Animation Co., LTDThe Guru DR MovieThe Crossroads of Destiny JM Animation Co., LTDThe Awakening Moi AnimationThe Headband JM Animation Co., LTDThe Painted Lady Moi AnimationSokka's Master JM Animation Co., LTDThe Beach Moi AnimationThe Avatar And the Firelord JM Animation Co., LTDThe Runaway Moi AnimationThe Puppetmaster JM Animation Co., LTDNightmares And Daydreams Moi AnimationThe Day of Black Sun, Part 1: The Invasion JM Animation Co., LTDThe Day of Black Sun, Part 2: The Eclipse Moi AnimationThe Western Air Temple JM Animation Co., LTDThe Firebending Masters Moi AnimationThe Boiling Rock, Part 1 JM Animation Co., LTDThe Boiling Rock, Part 2 Moi AnimationThe Southern Raiders Moi AnimationThe Ember Island Players JM Animation Co., LTDSozin's Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King JM Animation Co., LTDSozin's Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters Moi AnimationSozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno JM Animation Co., LTDSozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang JM Animation Co., LTD
>>82310Most impressive!>hinky animationDespite this S2 is my favorite.
OH. That reminds me. Was Hiroyuki Imaishi the one who did the flashbacks for the Great Divide?
>>82313He isn't listed in the credits.
>>82313No, the Zhang's version of the story is just an homage to the style he used in Dead Leaves. All of the animation was done in South Korea or Vancouver.
Did they ever explain how bending is passed down?Because I really don't think I like the idea that all of the future airbenders are gonna be Aang's descendants.
>>82320They did say that if Aang and Katara have kids, they'd be Waterbenders, Airbenders, or neither, so unless another population exists somewhere, or they start popping up out of the blue, all future Airbenders and Airbender Avatars will be directly descended from Aang.It's possible, I suppose, Bending isn't fully a matter of genetics, if it's a matter of genetics at all.
>>82313...That's totally the guy that did FLCL/Gurren Lagann, right?
>>82320>Did they ever explain how bending is passed down?An excerpt from <a href="http://www.avatarspiritmedia.net/interviews.php?id=19">the interview that was posted 3+ years ago</a> on AvatarSpirit.net<i>RM: Okay, next I know I'm going really left brained and you can call me a geek because I am, but in "The Fortuneteller" you have a pair of twins...kids...one is an earthbender and one isn't. So is bending genetic, or is it some sort of spiritual thing? How does it work?BK: Mike and I just got new puppies. They're brothers. They have the same mother and father. Same litter. Mike's dog can just sit in a crate and be happy as a clam. My dog just loses all control...everything. Who knows why these things happen? They're beyond our full understanding.MDD: Yeah, Katara's mom and dad weren't benders. Maybe it's a recessive gene. I've always seen it as more spiritual connections, though. A little bit mysterious...BK: I mean we've definitely talked about it. I think, again, sometimes we might not know...it's more of what we don't want it to be. We didn't want it to be like there is a lineage...a royal family or something...and these people can bend and then there's everyone else as non-bending, people who never will. Some sort of caste system. Mike and I are more attracted to more of the flux type universe. The only constant is change, variation, that sorta thing. I'm sure it's a bunch of factors.***Interviewers note: About 20 mins after the interview, Bryan came back to me and we spoke a little more about the basis of bending off recorder. He described bending as more of a talent. You have some genetic basis for potential, but you could go your whole life without developing the talent into ability. Some people have more inherent talent than others, while others with minimal inherent talent can still develop it through hard work and practice. He reiterated a connection to the spiritual energies is the underlying basis. How it manifests is based on upbringing and experience.RM: So could Teo's people perhaps grow into the airbenders of the future?BK: I think Teo's people are more refugees. They probably came together because they're not benders and really had no way to defend themselves. Then fell under this nutty guy who has his own skill and aura of authority. I don't think it's an ethnic group of non-benders, rather they were all just escaping the disasters of war.MDD: Yeah, I think if you've gone through puberty and not found any bending abilities, you're probably not going to find them. I think it manifests early.BK: Although that would make a pretty outrageous story. Some 80 year old guy...MDD: "Wow, I never knew!"BK: ...fire starts shooting out...RM: I was just curious if the airbenders could just come back from the general population rather than necessarily having to come back through Aang or anyone else who came from the airbending lineage.MDD: Aang is the last Airbender, so I don't think it's possible for Airbending to spontaneously develop in the general population.RM: It seems like all the Air Nomads were benders. Did they exile everyone who didn't manifest the trait, or did they really have such a high percentage of born benders?BK: We always have liked the idea of who will be a bender and who won't be to be kind of an ambiguous mystery, even to the people in the Avatar world. From early on we thought the Air Nomads would be all benders. Again it's like Mike was saying, it's more of a spiritual connection. But they have...they had...the smallest population. Earth Kingdom has the biggest population but the smallest percentage of benders. So yeah, there were these notions we kicked around that is wasn't going to be regimented or ruled through specific lineages. We liked the idea that each of the cultures have a different spiritual vantage point...coming at it from a different angle.MDD: Then the Air Nomads would have been the most spiritual...the most connected to the spiritual energy of the Earth.BK: But the most detached from society. More monastic.RM: Did the Avatar pre-date other bending, or did bending predate the Avatar?BK: We've definitely talked about that. But, in the event we ever did something with that, we'd rather not go into that. Mike and I for years have talked about that...over many a ping-pong game. We both find it really interesting, so we really don't want to just throw away something so integral to a story we might be telling.</i>
>>82322And Dead Leaves.
>>82310Just as a point of order, I believe it was explained in the commentaries that Moi Animation was the second studio all along. It was a subsidiary of DR Movie, that for whatever reason wasn't credited on its own until Book 3. I'm thinking it broke off and formed its own company, since they seem to be separate entities now.
>>82259Hell, if I had the put up with the Zutarians, I'd bait and mock them as much as I could too. I mean, even after all the "No guys, really, Katara and Zuko will not end up together. It's more likely that Appa and Momo will end up together." comments, they still couldn't take a hint. And then they had the nerve to throw a spoiled fanbrat tantrum and all-out insult the creators and their writing ability after the finale. Fuck that.>>82284I like the second one on Sokka and the one on Zuko.
>>82332>Hell, if I had the put up with the Zutarians, I'd bait and mock them as much as I could too. I mean, even after all the "No guys, really, Katara and Zuko will not end up together. It's more likely that Appa and Momo will end up together." comments, they still couldn't take a hint. And then they had the nerve to throw a spoiled fanbrat tantrum and all-out insult the creators and their writing ability after the finale. Fuck that.Yeah they just took it way too far, Mike and Bryan had every right to troll the shit out of them. Weren't they even trying to animate their own version of the last episode at one point too?
>>82342Yeah, but I bet they found out it's a lot more work than they thought it would be and gave up. But if they ever do complete it, it'll just get trolled hard.
>>82342>>82344I actually know someone involved with that project as a writer. The script's done, as is storyboarding, they're waiting now for the actual animation...which is I suspect where the whole thing will crumple like wet paper, but who knows. They do have at least one pretty good animator on board.Either way, apparently my friend has yanked the project as hard away from Mai-bashing and Aang-bashing as is possible, so the result shouldn't be TOO unpalatable.
>>82465>They do have at least one pretty good animator on board. You know what else had one animator? Avatar: The Dawning of Darkness.>Either way, apparently my friend has yanked the project as hard away from Mai-bashing and Aang-bashing as is possible, so the result shouldn't be TOO unpalatable.That's almost commendable, actually.
>>82467Commendable? Somebody call the Nobel committee!
>>82467Haha, well, I don't know if it'll ever get done. I only occasionally hear a tidbit of information about it when her excitement over some development overcomes her knowledge of my disinterest in the project.
>>82465>Either way, apparently my friend has yanked the project as hard away from Mai-bashing and Aang-bashing as is possible, so the result shouldn't be TOO unpalatable.Well, maybe I'll give them an ounce of respect then. But I still hope this thing never sees the light of day.
Following my admission that I had grown to hate Katara around to the same level of Sasuke, and receiving a good amount of backlash from it, I decided to rewatch the series to see if I'd just forgotten aspects of her character that I liked.And I have to say, I still don't like her. Not to the level I used to, but I just find her character to be terribly bitter. Sure, potshots at Sokka are the core of the humor in most of the show, but while some of it is funny, other times it goes beyond sibling rivalry and comes off as being bitter for the sake of it, like during The Drill. I get she's under pressure, but "shut up Sokka, I know." would have been better than turning around to snap about how she's "sick of being told what to do all day."So here's my debatable point, I think that the Southern Raiders, the episode where this mess is addressed, should have branched out into two episodes, to fully address what Katara was going through. Sure the Ember Island Players episode was funny, but be honest, it was designed as more of a roast of the series and the fandom than actually significant. Instead, replace it with a more concrete resolvement of the issues being addressed with Katara. The past with her mother, the feelings of distrust towards Zuko, even the bitterness that had begun to grow towards her own brother, get it all sorted out for the finale. Hell, if we need the calm before the storm, maybe remove a filler from the first half of season three like the Painted Lady, or not remove an episode at all.
Is it just me, or does the front page look like a subtle shipping war these days? Nothing really serious, but I'm amused.
>>82537I'm not sure I see what you're getting at. Sure, Katara has her moments of nastiness, but I think maybe they stand out more with her because she spends a lot of the series coming off all sweetness and light, and when she does finally get fed up, the contrast enhances the effect. Much the same as Aang's existential crisis spot when Appa is missing; his jerkiosity doesn't really even reach the same levels of Sokka or Toph on a normal day, but because we're used to him being The Nice Guy, he seems that much more of a dick by comparison.
>>82321Perhaps I am fond of the "steampunk airbender" concept, but I suspect Airbending can be teachable on some level.
>>82557Perhaps her getting more and more nasty was supposed to be leading up to the Southern Raiders issue, but I think it just wasn't handled as well as Appa being lost. To me, it just seemed like she was getting bitter wasn't being addressed as more pushed under the rug, and from what I remember she never apologized for what she said to Sokka, even when she got back. I don't feel the conclusion went far enough to talk about this, and really needed to be longer to give better conclusion to the issues at hand. I understand she's supposed to be the sweet character, but don't skirt around fixing character flaws to make them seem irrelevant. Frankly, if the whole shipping wars hadn't been an issue here, and Katara hadn't been elevated into some prize, I don't think I'd be alone in this. (And before anyone asks, NO. I'm not some butthurt Zutaran or some shit, I'm just not that fond of Kataang either, and I didn't like how it suddenly became the main focus of the fandom by the end, instead of the actual story. For god's sakes, dabbling with relationship bullcrap instead of tightening up the story is what made the last Harry Potter books that much worse than the earlier ones, did we really want to do that to Avatar?)
>>82573Pic related.To me, Katara is a genuinely strong female character. We are all used to see men getting agressive over something, but when a woman does that, she suddenly becomes a bitch.
>>82575You know, maybe it's less the issues I have with Katara, and more how it is reacted with in such overbearing terms by the fandom, as well as others. Do you want to discuss the issue, or do you just want to paint this in black and white terms? If calling out Katara on her nasty behavior near the end and wanting a more satisfying conclusion to deal with it is equal to misogyny in your eyes, then frankly it's you who has the problem here. Katara is a strong character, no doubt about it, but she had major issues that had built and weren't properly dealt with, and ended up leaving me with a general dislike of her.
>>82575It's more that the shows makes excuses for the way she acts. When everyone else acts shitty to someone, there's a big "You're wrong!" scene where they learn the error of their ways. Katara never gets one of those.
>>82575Mmmmmmmm...Cunt flavored wrath.
>>82537All is forgiven from that scene because it contains the classic line "BEND THE SLURRY, WOMAN!"
I had some mild feelings of dislike for Katara near the end of the series as well... or rather, how the series handled Katara. I think >>82578 puts it pretty well. Every other main character was either called out on their bullshit, or they came around to realize they should have acted better. Katara truly did not have that, which in turn could imply that she was given a free pass on some of her actions.Moving on.It's been said before, but I really hate the sound quality on lion turtle.
Honestly, I just found Katara boring. Sometimes I feel like the only person who doesn't HAAAATE her, just....found her dull. I wish I didn't, but I did.
>>82573>>82578>>82614I think you all touch on something important here that I had completely missed up until now. Namely: The Unkind Words To Sokka. It is the one moment in the series where I feel Katara was utterly a dick, and never called out for it. (And I should point out that I don't think Katara's treatment of Zuko prior to 'The Southern Raiders' was at all out of line. Your mileage may vary.)Also: I don't like it when people ship Toph with anyone. I like the idea that Toph is perfectly happy on her own while everyone around her is pairing off. I think this is much truer to her character than pining over Sokka (or Aang, or whoever).
This other thing I have to say is much more minor than the other one.I kind of liked Aang's look with hair more than without hair. Again, they're both fine, I just prefer him with hair.
>>82634I personally would have liked her to apologize to Sokka for that (and no, her pre-Southern Raiders behavior was absolutely not out of line), but I think that considering that the entire point of the episode was that revenge is a negative emotion and makes you act poorly, an explicit calling out of that behavior wasn't really necessary. It was already implied.And as for apology...hell, I know I'm bad at apologizing to my siblings, even when I done fucked up.
I agree with the whole Katara being a dick at times thing. In southern raiders didn't she claim that sokka didn't "Love mom the way I do" or something along those lines? Made me feel real sorry for Sokka.
>>82685Not much I can say about wanting to actually see Katara apologize, but there was a pretty well thought out reason regarding that outburst of hers, was it in this thread? Basically summed up her emotions in that ep as stemming from guilt more than just being bitch who doesn't care about her brother's feelings.
Am I the only one who thought Suki was kind of a flat character? I don't dislike her or anything, but there's not much to like either. If they showed any dimension to her besides "cute girl warrior who sasses Sokka back", I missed it.
>>82692She's a minor character. She has no personal story arc to fulfill and there was no time to give her better development.But I'm fine with that, she's still one of my favorite characters. She's hot , funny, takes part in some badass non-bending action, and IMHO she has one of the best and most iconic looks in the show.
I must admit I think that Zuko would have made a terrible Fire Lord although he is well meaning at this point he still has really poor decision making skills every time he makes a chose he seems to always make the situation worse for almost all parties involved usually for the very people he is trying to help. He has also proven himself to be a terrible leader I mean when he was captain of his little ship all of his crew mates hated him and only tolerated him because of his uncle. Even at his best in Cross Roads of Destiny he only barley poised as a decent distraction for Azula, because the Dai Li and her were in control of that enter situation and of course most people agree that was the wrong chose.
>>83823One of the only issues I had with the finale was Iroh immediately starting up his tea shop. It's great that he gets to do what he truly wants with life, and I'd love to see him owning the Jasmine Dragon later on, but it just seems a bit ridiculous that he'd leave Zuko alone right after the war ended. I mean, Zuko's ending a 100 year long, propaganda-fueled war that the FN almost won after having sided with their biggest enemy (and remember the reaction to his "death" in the play) - there's going to be a shit ton of political turmoil - plus all the reparation demands and stuff from the WT and EK. Also, Zuko's lived the last 3 years of his life at sea away from all the politics at home, and while he's got great intentions and isn't a blood-thirty crazy tyrant, he's not exactly the smartest person around. Zuko really needs Iroh's help for the first year or so.
I think the ending of avatar was great, and everyone who says that it was a cop out or out of nowhere is ignorant of why it went down that way. The way Aang spirit bended Ozai was great in that it was in character, Aang is a monk who's background consists of peaceful teaching. It also conveyed the message that not everything has to be resolved with violence thus teaching future generations to look for the peaceful solution. It also wasn't a "copout" as some so arrogantly put it, as every major event in the series was planned from the very beginning, meaning that Mike and Bryan have thought through many possible solutions and decided this was the best.
>>83860Couldn't have said it any better myself, Mort.
>>83851I think Mai can help Zuko out with some of the politics, but just because Iroh's retired doesn't mean he's going to stop giving out sage advice.
>>83860They should've had Aang meet the Lion-Turtle earlier; maybe in a dream, maybe in the spirit world, but in some form. The concept of Spirit-bending could have been alluded to then, and then the finale could've gone the way it did and there'd be no complaints. Well, that's not entirely true>>83851There'd be advisors, and he can always send Iroh a messenger hawk
>>83866Dude Zuko didn't listen to Iroh when he was there, and he is still just as stupid and rash at the end of the series as he ever was at the beginning.
>>83942>he is still just as stupid and rash at the end of the series as he ever was at the beginningUh, no.
>>83942 rewatch the series
>>83912Yeah, but while plenty of those advisers will want to help, others will want to take advantage of Zuko's inexperience and idealism. And messenger hawks can be intercepted. In the long run, I think Zuko will be a great Fire Lord because he actually gives a damn about his people, but near the beginning he really needs as many intelligent and trustworthy people around him as possible.
>>83943Really his 'magical field trips' at the end of the series were basically completely unnecessary the only one that was of any really importance was when he and Aang went to the Sun Warriors to learn fire bending and he almost kills the avatar there through his ignorance, I mean if the Sun Warriors had really been dead there would have been no one to check the traps then they would have just slowly died. Then there was the Boiling Rock fiasco in which he almost got himself and Sokka killed and captured repeatedly in fact if it wasn't for Sokka's insane brilliance which he did not know of at the time they would have been trapped the moment they got there, also if it wasn't for the miracle of Mai and Ty Lee betraying Azula, Sokka and Zuko would have died there as well and the only reason why any one except Katara survived his field trips was for the point of miraculously advancing the plot.
>>83956 Except it was Sokka's idea to go to the boiling rock in the first place...
>>83958It was but Zuko was still an enabler who let Sokka go without carefully planning what to do first and heading out with bad information and poor equipment.
>>83960Alright, and what exactly would you take to Alcatraz set in the middle of a boiling ocean, in an era where technology does not exist?And Mai/Ty Lee's betrayals weren't really miracles, so much as character advancement.I mean, out of all the WHAT things in the series to be mad about, those two seem kind of silly.
>>83956NO YOU PLEBEIAN! THOSE TRIPS WERE COMPLETELY NECESSARY TO EXPLORE THE CHARACTERS PERSONALITIES, EMOTIONS AND BACK STORIES!
>>83971Well there is always that little bastard who can fly and has god like powers would increase your chances, I mean they had absolutely no back up, that and there was no reason why it had to be done before you conquered/usurped control of the fire nation. And my point with the betrayals is that they were so critically important to Zuko's escape had Azula not shown up he would have been screwed, and she would have been sane in the finally and still had her royal fire nation guards and Dai Li agents instead of fighting Zuko alone. I mean if it wasn't for the stupid destiny says thing Zuko and Katara would have lost at the finally. >>83976Yes I will admit that those episodes did a brilliant job at exploring and developing the cast and advancing the plot but, that if we are thinking about this from the characters point of view these are all very bad ideas that could and should have gotten them all killed.
>>84002I reluctantly agree.
>>84002First of all, it's "finale". Second, if you think Zuko taking Aang to the Sun Warrior ruins was a bad idea, taking him to the Boiling Rock would have been even worse. IMO, taking Katara might have helped because she could have been able to temporarily freeze the boiling water if the gondola did get cut and they fell in, or if this wasn't a Y7 show, she could bend the boiling water to use against the guards. The field trips did seem a little forced, but they gave Zuko a chance to bond with everyone, and they even spoofed it in the end with Toph and Zuko. There's also no guarantee Azula wouldn't go a little crazy when she found out daddy didn't want her to come along on his "Burn the Earth Kingdom tour" or that Katara and Zuko would have definitely lost if she was still sane.