Today I'd like to talk to you about just how great Heracross is. Mine just sweeped five Pokemon -- Espeon, Genesect, Salamence, Gengar, and Blaziken -- while locked into Stone Edge with Choice Scarf.

He was my last Pokemon, and was down to just 2 HP thanks to Genesect's Flamethrower. BUT NO. FUCKING UNSTOPPABLE HERACROSS COMING THROUGH.

I envy you. Dramatic effect never kicks in for me.

>>19021
The only reason I won that battle was because I knew he had a Salamence waiting. If I'd used Megahorn like my original plan, every one of his remaining Pokemon resisted it, save Espeon.

And I got damn lucky with accuracy too, I don't mind sayin'.

Sonic 3D Music: Gene Gadget Zone Act 2

I'd also like to point out that this is a fucking great background tune for battles.

Mr. Bones, I want to make a Double Battle Rain Dance team in Black. I know almost nothing about the Gen 5 Pokemon/changes/anything, so who do you suggest? The only Pokemon I know for sure I'm using are Ludicolo and Drizzle Politoed, and I was considering Electrode, thanks to his Speed and Thunder STAB, but a friend told me Magnezone would be better due to his ability to actually take a hit, so idek.

>>19038
Electrode's more than double Magnezone's speed, though. It also isn't quad-weak against ground moves, either.

Skarmory: left overs
sky attack
roost
stealth rock
whirlwind

Shuckle: left overs
rest
toxic
stone edge
wrap

Breloom: toxic orb
leech seed
substitute
superpower
spore

mismagius: left over
mean look
perish song
confuse ray
pain split

Blissey: left over
blizzard
metronome
softboiled
wish

Machamp (no guard): life orb
dynamite punch
earthquake
knock off
rest

what do you guys think
huh huh huh!?
|:D
| :D
|:D
| :D
|:D
| :D
|:D

>>19038
If it's raw power you're after, I can recommend Ampharos, as he has the highest Special Attack of all non-legendary Pokemon. If you don't mind using non-uber tier legendaries, Raikou has the same score. Though they both have terrible movepools, they're both surprisingly effective at taking hits; I had a Counter Ampharos for awhile that could take Earthquakes like a champ and through them right back in their user's face.

Also, look into Lanturn. Both of his abilities are going to be useful to you. And Dry Skin Toxicroak. Hydration Vaporeon, as well! I'll see if I can go into more detail when I'm more awake...

>>19038
Okay, I put this together as sort of a mock-up, just to give you an idea of things you could try in the rain. Do be careful, though, people are throwing around the idea of banning Swift Swim users from being on the same team as Drizzletoed.

Politoed (M) @ Escape Button
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Perish Song

Ludicolo (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 3 HP / 255 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Boil Over
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot
- Leech Seed

Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Manectric (M) @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunder
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Water]
- Magnet Rise

Escavalier (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Aerial Ace
- Swords Dance

Vaporeon (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Boil Over
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Rest

>>19040
Taunt.

Oh hey someone made a helpful picture guide

>>19050
And if you're wondering what you'll have to beat the ever loving tar out of to get the right kind of points, there's THIS handy list

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Pok%C3%A9mon_by_effort_value_yield

>>19049
I like the general structure of this, thanks.
I'll toy around with it, maybe re-download Pokemon Online and dick around in that, see what works for me.

>>19049
Messed with it a bit, got this:
Politoed (F) @ Escape Button
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
- Protect
- Boil Over

Manectric (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Magnet Rise
- Thunder
- Volt Change

Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Leech Seed
- Rain Dance
- Toxic
- Boil Over

Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Poison Jab
- Ice Punch
- Brick Break

Vaporeon (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 200 HP / 108 SAtk / 200 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Boil Over
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Surf

Kingdra (M) @ Liechi Berry
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 Def / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Outrage
- Rain Dance

Seems to work fairly well. At least, I lost 0-1 against a guy using an OU Sandstorm team, which, in my book, means this is a pretty slick team.
I'll probably tweak it a bit more just to experiement, but for now, I like it.

Just wondering. I ended up getting a timid Volcarona it has pretty good IV's but is it viable because it's timid rather then modest?

>>19339
Absolutely. Nothing wrong with higher Speed, especially on a sweeper like Volcarona.

Quiver Dance makes everything better anyway.

>>19340
Speaking of which, when is the right time to pull that move? In normal battles against the e4 whenever I pull it off, it just makes him a huge target.

>>19341
As early as possible. Unfortunately, Volcarona's typing doesn't give you a lot of opportunities to wall something, since Fire and Bug are both absolutely terrible defensive types. The best I can offer is improvising with the likes of X Defend and health restorers. Just one ought to do it, and buying one turn shouldn't be too hard.

Is it even possible to have a Sand Team on UU or NU, since Hippodown or Tyranitar are OU?

>>19408
If you're willing to settle for Hippopotas, then yes.
If not, you'd best get comfortable with Sandstorm and Smooth Rock.

>>19412
Hippopotas is still fairly bulky, right? How well would it work with an Eviolite?

>>19418
His defenses are respectable with Eviolite, but not amazing. But it's just as viable a choice as Focus Sash, I'd say, especially if your only goal with it is to set up sand and Stealth Rock.

How did the change in typing affect the viability of Rotom's formes?

>>19433
The only ones that aren't terrible now are Wash Rotom (who is basically Lanturn v2) and Freeze Rotom (who gets two great STAB types, though Ice is a terrible defensive type). Spin Rotom is even lamer now, being the only Flying-type with Levitate as an ability.

But pretty much all of Rotom's Appliance Formes will never be as good as they used to be.

>>19434
>But pretty much all of Rotom's Appliance Formes will never be as good as they used to be.
Good, I got sick of seeing those assholes everywhere.

>>19434

That's a shame. I had a Rotom in Gen IV that had good stats, but I didn't use him because he was banned from the Frontier.

>>19438
The original Rotom is still viable. He was on my All-Stars team near the end of Gen IV; nobody set up Reflect and Light Screen the same way he did.

>>19434
Surely the Flying/electric one can use Roost to take advantage of Levitate, right?
...Right?

>>19464
Sorry, the different forms only get one move exclusive to their typing, and Roost ain't it. Instead it gets Air Slash.

>>19467
That...that's terrible

>>19556
There's a reason nobody ever used Spin Rotom.

(Except me, who liked spamming King's Rock boosted Air Slash alongside Thunder Wave and Confuse Ray.)

>>19558
That's super terrible.

Okay guys, I have one of these fuckawesome pokes, and I've used her well for a good long while; she wears an Expert Belt and knows Fake Out, Ice Punch, Earthquake and Brick Break, but recently I'm been wondering; should I replace Brick Break for Drain Punch?

Opinions?

>>19590
Give her Surf.

>>19592

>>19590
Well Drain Punch got that power boost, you know, so the only option is which you find more necessary: breaking through Reflect and Light Screen, or recovering health.

>Didn't know about the power boost, thus making my choice obvious
>Realized I already transferred her over, so she can't learn Drain Punch again as it's not a TM in this game

GNNNKRRRRMMMMM

>>19596

Though on the plus side, it does make my Slowbro build more palatable.

Smogcast #9: Black and White O…
Smogcast #9: Black and White O…
Smogcast #9: Black and White O…
>STAB Flare-Blitz Darmanitan bringing a fucking Kingdra down 75%
>Scizor is no longer the most used OU-Pokémon
>Serious conversation about a weather ban, while SR is still "acceptable".
They fucking hate Clefable because it has Magic Guard

Nice double standards, Smogon.

>>19706
>SR is still "acceptable".
I haven't checked up on this in a while, but I'm assuming by your anger that they've decided to include all movesets available by transfer from 4th gen, stealth rock included?

>>19706
While I understand that there's a need to set guidelines for what tiers certain teams are in just so people know which opponents will and will not be fun to play against, Smogon's community often strikes me as being full of the whiniest type of metagamer. The kind that wants to ban everything powerful or new even when it doesn't over-centralize the game.

>>19709
My beef with Stealth Rock is that it is incredibly hypocritical how adamantly Smogon and other competitve sites defend it. It just doesn't make any sense why sleep-claus or evasion-claus are acceptable, but an all-encompassing, passive damaging move that effectively cripples half the meta-game is A-Ok.

I asked on Pokemon-online's forum if there was a possibility of an SR-Clause in the Beta, and one of the devs said, and I quote:
"We're not going to ban one move just because some people don't like it. It's just going to add up; first SR gets a clause, then someone wants a certain Pokémon or a certain team to be claused, until orange Pokémon are claused. No."

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48398
This is pretty dated, but this is basically what I'm talking about.

>>19706
>Serious conversation about a weather ban, while SR is still "acceptable".
That's understandable, actually. Stealth Rock is just super fucking annoying at most, weather can literally be a gamebreaker with a Swift Swim Pokemon.

>>19706
>They fucking hate Clefable because it has Magic Guard

u mad

>>19725
Me or them?

>>19713
Rain, or at least permanent rain, is ridiculously powerful because 19 fully-evolved Pokemon will be getting double speed, 7 get all status effects cured every turn (including using Rest with no negative consequences), and all but three of those also get a 50% boosts to already STAB moves. All of this for a type that's already got a huge load of advantages (only two weakness, most learn attacks supereffective against the types they're weak against).

But the others aren't because:
1. Since the abilities that need sunlight are almost all Grass type, they suffer rather than benefit from the Fire-type power boost.
2. Sand Rush is only available to 3 full-evolved Pokemon.
3. Neither Hail nor Sandstorm boost damage on their own, and Sand Force is only a 30% bonus.
4. Sand Veil and Snow Cloak are annoying, but anyone who says they're genuinely broken is a whiny little shit who needs to read up on the Gambler's fallacy.
5. Even when it's Hailing it still sucks to be an ice-type.

>>19727
Them, they. Fuck those guys.

>>19729
I agree, Sunlight(or the abilities that use it) needs a huge buff, Sandstorm is fine, might actually need a nerf really, and Hail needs more abilities that take advantage of it.

It's better to be an Ice Type than a Grass type though, admit it.

>>19732
Grass at least resists Water and Ground and is neutral to Fighting. Ice resists Ice and that's about all it has going for it.

>>19713
So is Stealth Rock and Whirlwind, especially if your Pokémon are weak to Rock.

You know what's REALLY bad?

Anything with Prankster and Assist. (Liepard)

Hippowdown sets up Stealth Rock and Sandstorm, then lets itself get knocked out.

Liepard comes in and uses Assist without end.

All the other Pokemon on the team only know Roar or Whirlwind.

God damn it.

>>19735
No bro, even with my love of Bug and Flying types, Stealth Rock has never been a gamebreaker for me. There's a difference between "argh fuck my Pokemon just lost 1/4 of it's HP cause I switched it out" and "argh fuck this Kabutops just 6-0 swept me because it's literally impossible to be faster than him without using a Deoxys with Agility."

SR is annoying, extremely so. Rain can make things literally unfair.
Rapid Spin can get rid of Stealth Rock, in addition to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, with no downsides. Nothing can get rid of weather except other weather, which can actually hinder your team if it isn't built around the weather you're using.

>>19736
Taunt and something strong enough to OHKO Liepard (mostly everything).

>>19739
Assist has increased priority, so you'd need something faster than Liepard that also has Prankster to use it. Only Tornadus, Thundurus, and Whimsicott can do it. Anything else will likely get Roared or Whirlwinded away unless they're packing an immediately powerful ExtremeSpeed. Like Arceus.

I guess Snatch could do the job, but nobody actually uses Snatch.

>>19736
I lolled.

Yeah, I wouldn't mourn an Assist ban unless someone can think of a single viable use that's isn't a blatant exploit.

>>19738
>Rapid Spin can get rid of Stealth Rock, in addition to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, with no downsides.
But then it's back at full power with just one more turn. And while all it takes to block Rapid Spin is sending out a Ghost-type, Stealth Rock can only be blocked with Magic Bounce or a faster Taunter.

You can't even block it with Magic Coat unless you have Pressure, because Stealth Rock has more PP.

You're right that Stealth Rock isn't "broken", it isn't an auto-win against anyone not using it, but it is massively centralizing: it will always improve your odds of winning far more than any other single move, thus having it will always be advantageous (and is still ridiculously easy because of 4th gen transferring), and thus a Rock weakness will always be disproportionately harmful.

As for the weather, I really wish they nerfed the weather-starting abilities turn-wise: I mean getting infinite weather without using a single turn while everyone else needs to use a turn to get it for 5 turns is overkill. That and I wish Air Lock and Cloud Nine actually got rid of the weather instead of just negating it while they're out, and a move did the same.

On a similar note, they probably wouldn't need the evasion clause if Double Team hadn't been a TM move that could be learned by everything in every generation.

>I guess Snatch could do the job, but nobody actually uses Snatch.
Snatch doesn't work on Assist

I WANT to create a whole team of 5th gen bug pokemon.

But I can't see that winning. Ever.

Wait, they did away with lv.100 battles online? So what, everything's unevenly leveled in most games?

Man, FUCK THAT, I am not grinding all of my pokemon to lv.100.

>>20058
... I dunno... Actually the varitety of type coverage and unique abilities for them would actually be quite serviceable. Galvantula's compound Eyes make it so that Thunder's accuracy is boosted making him terrifying to everything but ground and rock types, But that's what you have a Leavanny for... Till you meet something with speed and a rock move.

TO MAKE NO MENTION OF FIRE! Your only hope there will be Crustle and then they'll just switch in anything with water and make him go bye bye since he's soooooooslooooooow. You might luck out and spook away the fire type by switching in Crustle (who learns rock wrecker so they'll think twice about it at least but this is very doubtful since most fire types are special attackers and Crustles special defense is less than spectacular) and maybe use that switch out as an opening for Shell Smash which will double Crustle's speed, or hope that your STAB (and rather high attack stat to start with) Rock Wrecker will punish those who oppose you.

Bug's unfortunately got a number of weaknesses (3 to 4 most of the time) that make it difficult to use without a supporter who is not a bug themselves. Stone Edge is going to be a key feature on every goddamn team ever. And ultimately most of your team will either go dwn to that, or some fire move on a non fire type.

Granted Accelgor's awesome speed and special attack will make him a star, but much like the wrapping it wear's it's defenses are thin and wispy.

Aaand none of the bugs learn Trick Room or Tail Wind... OH! Scolipede can Baton Pass Agility, that's pretty useful... It can also have the dreamworld ability Quick Feet, so there's that too if you put say, a Toxic Orb on him.

NO! I haven't forgotten about Volcarona and it's equally boss stats in everything but defense, and yes it can be a real game changer so long as it doesn't land on some stealth rocks (there goes half its health.) and isn't up against something faster with Stone Edge. Actually that's a pretty deadly combo right there, pass on agility to Volcarona And then have it spam Firey Dance (50% chance of boosting an already great special attack stat) and you could probably sweep.

hm.

Really though in the long run you're gonna have to be fast, clever, and lucky to stay on top of the scene.

I'd just like to point out that Rock-types are entirely neutral to Electric.

But you do have to look out for Lightningrod and Volt Absorb users.

>>20060
Yeah, I was mostly just talking about stealth rock dominating the metagame.

Or at least I assume it does. I haven't been part of the competitive scene since Platinum.

>>20060
>>20063
I'm just going to teach mine Energy Ball.

Blaziken is banned? Oh Smogon, you so crazy.

(Yes, yes I know about speed boost)

>>20078
Probably just Speed Boost variants, I doubt regular Blaze Blaziken will go down.

And bear in mind these rules are only as important as you and your opponent think they are.

Man, I love my Rain Dance team. I get as many ragequits as I do wins and losses combined.

And people are just entirely too silly. If I switch out to Vaporeon while you have Galvantula out, what could I possibly be expecting other than Thunder[bolt]? And yet they never stop obliging, and fueling my Manectric's Sp. Attack. It also never stops being funny.

>>19041
Ampharos? Are you sure? I'm on pokemondb.net and there's 25 non legendaries with higher special attack.

>>20272
Let me clarify: the highest Special Attack of all non-legendary Electric-type Pokemon. Of course that might have changed as well, since I haven't compared him to some of the new Electrics, but the closest is probably Galvantula and I'm almost entirely sure she's not quite as strong.

>>20276
Galvantula's (97) and Eelektross's (105) are lower than Ampharos (115), but Magneton's (120) and Magnezone's (130) have always been higher.

>>20278
Well shit, now I feel stupid. The magnets do have a great typing going for them too; one of a small handful of Pokemon to resist both Electric and Ice. The only obvious problem is their Earthquake weakness and relatively low Speed. Ampharos' Speed isn't great, either, but he's only 2x weak to Ground.

>>20280
It's disappointing because Ampharos is fucking awesome and I wish it had better stats. All my favorite Pokemon are UU or NU.

>>20285
I feel the same way. Never stopped me from taking UU/NU Pokemon to OU battles, which never stopped me from winning.

>>20287
This. I always feel like a boss when I sweep an opponent who literally copypasta'd his team from Smogon with a Qwilfish.

Fuck, I love Qwilfish.

>>20287
Would that ever happen with a Golem or Dodrio?

>>20293
As long as you can play it smart and keep to their strengths, any Pokemon can find use on a team.

What about a magikarp? lol

>>20312
MAGIKARP Wi-Fi SWEEP NFE Vs UBER HGSS

I'm this close to having my full team. Having to manually take my team up to lv 100 is a bitch

Does Mold Breaker bypass Magic guard?

>>20462
Nope. Mold Breaker only enhances actual attacks, while Magic Guard only ignores passive damage. The two abilities are total opposites.

>>20462
Nope. Mold Breaker only temporarily negates the opponent's ability, just long enough for it to be attacked, so it wouldn't make a difference one way or the other.

>>20469
Wouldn't the exact opposite be Wonder Guard?

>>20482
No, because Mold Breaker beats Wonder Guard. Mold Breaker loves running into Wonder Guard.

>>20483
No, I mean, Wonder Guard negates and and all passive damage given to it outside of confusion.

Wonder Guard completely negates any and all physical damage outside of supereffective moves, and passive damage.

Right?

>>20485
Assuming you meant to say "Magic Guard" the first time, yes.

Though I'm not sure if Magic Guard doesn't protect from confusion damage, and it apparently doesn't work against damage from the after-effects of trapping moves.

I have had about my fill of rain teams.

Especially you, Zapdos.

>>20506
I know what you meant. I did 10 random battles on Pokemon Online the other day. 7 of them opened with Drizzletoed.

>>20509
I can deal with Drizzletoed (except Protect/Perish Song sets, those are a bitch), it's just his friends Zapdos and Kingdra I have trouble with.

>>20510
I can deal with Drizzletoed too, I'm just saying, when 7/10 teams are Rain Dance teams, something is really stupid.

Question!

Yanmega or Aerodactyl? I've narrowed it down to one of these two to combat any fighting types that come up, but this choice is mostly a matter of personal aesthetic preferences. So I guess I'm open to other suggestions too!

>>20570

Also I guess the crux of my team is they're Pokes that I think look cool. I'm by no means super competitive so I don't have much interest in a mirror coat double team baton pass trick room sunny day combo smackdown or whatever. :/

>>20570
Well both of them are pretty flimsy, but they're also fast and fairly powerful; the trouble is they both have Rock weaknesses, and a lot of Fighting-types can learn powerful Rock-type moves. That said, you'll probably want to rely on an Air Slash Yanmega; he suffers the most from Rock attacks, but he still has a 4x resistance to Fighting.

If you really want to put the fear of God into a Fighting-type, what you need is a sturdy Ghost like Eviolite!Dusclops or Jellicent or even Drifblim if you're feeling colorful.

>>20571
brb making a sun dance team

What the fuck should I do to a Lickitung?

>>20582
Evolve it, first of all, then you could get ballsy with a mixed attacker set. Earthquake, Fire Blast, Explosion, Work Up.

Alternatively, Swords Dance.

So I haven't played competitively in 5th Gen, but if Drizzleteams are that popular, why not just lead with something with Swift Swim and boost its speed on the opening turn (when the opponent will likely be busy switching out Drizzletoad), and wreck everything? The fact that your opponent wastes a turn on setting up the weather conditions (even if they also get to switch on that turn) puts them at a pretty big disadvantage, especially if the weather condition benefits you just as much as it does them, I would think.

Give your Lead Thunder and an Ice Attack to deal with Water types and Plant types, and either Surf/Water Spout to benefit from Rain Dance further or a Dragon Attack to deal with Kingdra.

>>20587
That was actually what won the Junior League Championships last year; since Nintendo allowed people take in certain legendaries (but most importantly Kyogre and Groudon), the eventual Junior Champ brought a sun team that relied on Swift Swim Ludicolo to get the sunlight started. Ludicolo would use Swift Swim to KO Kyogre, then use Sunny Day.

Dear everyone,

If you use Prankster for anything other than Taunt, fuck you with sandpaper.

Sincerely,
Anon.

>>20946

Problem, trainer?

Is there a Pokemon that can ACTUALLY use Snarl?

I'm not a fan of Zorua or Zoroark...

>>21057
Umbreon, Suicune, Spiritomb...

>>21058

Hmm...

>Suicune

If he's breeding it into other 'mons as an egg move that's out of the question.

>Umbreon

Umbreon's base Sp. Attack is okay but it already has high Sp. Defense, rendering the Sp. Attack decrease unnecessary.

>Spiritomb

Spiritomb has high base Sp. Attack that makes Snarl usable (Snarl has a Base Power of 55), but you'll have to chain-breed to get it into Spiritomb's moveset.