/op/ One Piece Archived Board plus4chan home [baw] [co/cog/jam/mtv] [coc/draw/diy] [pco/coq/cod] [a/mspa/op/pkmn] [Burichan/Futaba/Greygren]
[Return] [Entire Thread] [Last 50 posts] [First 100 posts]
Posting mode: Reply
Name
Email
Subject   (reply to 30768)
Message
File
Password  (for post and file deletion)

Currently 0 unique user posts.

News
  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 136686131555.png - (837.19KB , 900x1404 , this is gross.png )
30768 No. 30768
is it just me or is odas treatment of female characters getting steadily more gross as the manga progresses? nevermind how robin and nami and damn every other female character in the series now has the same body type, but then there's the fiasco in the image and a general ick-ness that's pervaded the entire fucking story.

im serious did Oda have a stroke or something? what the fuck is going ON.
67 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 31256
>>31255
I imagine he means crotch bulges, since he's talking about sexualization. Although even then, giant cock is more of a turn-on for men than it is for women.
>> No. 31258
>>31256
But breasts are a secondary sexual characteristic, Oda may draw super giant tits and small waists on his girls but he doesn't draw them with massive pussies and we've gotten tons of man butt service so again I feel that Oda draws his men as ridiculously as his women and that just because of what he likes to draw and finds attractive his women end up being very similar which draws more attention to them.
>> No. 31262
>tiki doesnt know the difference between power fantasies and sexualization
literally no one is shocked. why dont you go back to saving orphans or whatever it is you claim to do
>> No. 31272
>>31262
You could very well be right in this regard, could you explain the difference? It's come up a couple of times in stuff like the Dragon's Crown discussions as well and I love to hear the various discourses on the subject.
>> No. 31274
File 137107443598.png - (151.17KB , 550x818 , 2011-12-02-sexy.png )
31274
>>31272
>> No. 31275
File 137107486928.jpg - (133.35KB , 800x1158 , dorohedoro-2013697.jpg )
31275
>>31274
Ahh, I see, I concede to my views on the subject being heavily flawed.

Time to do some thinkin' on thangs.
>> No. 31276
>>31256
>giant cock is more of a turn-on for men than it is for women

What year are you living in, grampa?
>> No. 31278
>>31274
That comic is bullshit. Please stop posting it in place of actually making a cohesive argument.
First of all, one man's image of what one woman thinks represents an attractive male is hardly conclusive evidence. Some girls like their men built. Others like them short and hairy. A good number like them impossibly tall with abnormally large hands. That's it.
Second, lithe, kissable Batmans aren't really all that uncommon. Neither are Supermans, Spidermans, Thors, etc. especially since comic artists often try to make their heroes look like their cinematic counterparts, who get objectified nonstop.
Third, that fat dude is a strawman. And while that doesn't make the point any less "valid," it does make the comic an impediment to any sort of candid discussion.
>> No. 31279
>>31278
Willis isn't saying that a Batman that looked like that would be universally liked by women. It's just one example to illustrate that the vast, VAST majority of male superheroes aren't drawn in a way that is intended to appeal to women.

Some artists do draw a Superman or a Batman that some women might like to kiss, but few artists have that as a major intention. Male superheroes are still primarily drawn as a power fantasy, and very few women go for the overly muscular brick shithouses that absolutely dominate the industry.

Generally speaking Superman and Batman are drawn in a way that straight men think looks attractive. It's part of the power fantasy thing. What straight men believe straight women find attractive and what straight women actually find attractive are different things. It's so that the male readership can put themselves in the role of their favourite heroes and pretend they're handsome, powerful guys.

Power fantasy.

Meanwhile, the majority of superheroines are drawn and designed in a way to emphasize their attractiveness and feminine assets. Again, to appeal to the straight men reading superhero comics.

TL;DR: the comic's actually perfectly valid because it doesn't claim that THAT Batman is what all women would prefer, it merely uses that one example to highlight the fact that superheroes are male power fantasies and superheroines are male sexual fantasies with little regard for the sexual fantasies of any women readers.

Also, the "straw man" in a straw man argument is a superficially similar but unequivalent proposition. That comic does not actually feature a straw man because I have literally seen dudes make that exact argument the fat guy is making in real life. I have seen it so, so fucking often.

That's part of the problem, even! Such a terrifically huge number of people genuinely use arguments that are indistinguishable from ridiculous straw men, that a lot of salient points get thrown out because they're supposedly responding to a straw man when, in fact, they're responding to actual opinions held by real people. So those ridiculous people keep having those opinions without ever learning. It's awful.
>> No. 31282
>>31276
There was a study on it recently, when trying to figure out why transexual porn is almost exclusively viewed by straight men, rather than by women or homosexuals. It was decided that men see the penis, especially a large penis, as a symbol of power and sexuality. This does not mean they want it inside them or anything, but it means that the presence of one makes them excited, because they associate it with their own sexuality.

While some women are "size queens" who really do get excited by the presence of a huge penis, that's not something that can be universally relied upon about women's sexuality. Honestly, women's sexual preferences are so much more varied than mens' that it's hard to come up with any single physical trait to focus on. It's why most porn aimed at women focuses on plotlines and the emotions of a character--see, for example, Twilight. Twilight is Girl Porn. It is about building up the Forbidden Romance, the quiet, brooding, emotional bad (but, ultimately, safe) bad boy who lives for nothing but the girl they're putting themselves in the shoes of. Not every woman's going to respond to that, but it's an example of how you effectively sexualize a male character in a way that women would respond to rather than a way that builds up a man's sense of power/virility.

...and, for bonus points, how you sexualize a male character in a way that makes men uncomfortable. Men all over the internet are up in arms about how terrible Twilight is, but ask yourself honestly--is it really about the writing? And if it is--how well-written is the porn you watch/read?
>> No. 31283
File 137108485385.gif - (2.95MB , 390x357 , 1370998108786.gif )
31283
>>31282
>transexual porn is almost exclusively viewed by straight men
>exclusively viewed by straight men
>straight men

We need to have a talk.
>> No. 31284
>>31282
From what I've seen, women (aside from the women who actually like it of course) hate Twilight far more violently than men and will eagerly tear it apart plot, characters and all, compared to men who tend to stop at ">glitter vampires"
>> No. 31285
>>31279
Much better. You did a much better job than Willis did, and all without pictures.
By the way, the strawman isn't the argument that the man is making, the strawman is how he is portrayed, i.e. he is a fat, balding neckbeard who feels threatened by pretty men.
That said, the argument he is making really isn't all that ridiculous. Everything he says is logical, but that is assuming that the universality of impossibly muscled hulks in comics is an example of male objectification. And it is, to a degree, but as you demonstrated, it is not the same as the objectification of women in comics: the males are not sexual fantasies for female readers. However, it would be wrong to assume that everyone comes equipped with this knowledge. So, unfortunately, you'll have to explain this kind of thing more than once, preferably without dismissing the opposition as ugly, tactless nerds.
>> No. 31286
Why is utilitarian objectification acceptable while sexual objectification isn't?
>> No. 31288
>>31286
In this case, it's because we're discussing sexual objectification.
However, I think the argument that most people would give would be that since most of the writers are male, they must be okay with portraying characters as useful objects, and you should be too.
On the other hand, I'd argue that a little bit of either is an okay thing, so long as we don't let it get out of hand. At least, I can't fault it so much in a medium as sensationalistic as comics.
>> No. 31290
>>31286
Neither are really very good. The operative word in both of those is ibjectification. In writing, utilitarian or sexual objectification gets in the way of characterization, which, really, should always be more important than how sexy or useful someone is.

Having a character be sexually attractive is perfectly alright, it's just that the character's attractiveness (in a non-porn setting, and even then there's ways to not objectify while still being exciting) shouldn't overshadow the character itself. And a lot of sexual objectification reduces women not just to sex objects, but to ridiculously exaggerated sex objects.

In superhero comics women are always posing uncomfortably to show off their ass and tits at the same time, whereas men are always posing heroically. That's why something like the Hawkeye Initiative is so popular. Stuff like that brings this ridiculous nonsense to light and mocks it as it should be mocked.

So sexual objectification just gets in the way of storytelling. PLUS: it's super demeaning because of the objectification bit.

Don't treat people as things, basically, and both utilitarian and sexual objectification reduce people to things on some level, which is pretty shitty on a lot of levels, not to mention unnecessary.
>> No. 31294
Go back to tumblr.
>> No. 31300
>>30794
Are you really surprised Oda is a white knight? Its socially unacceptable to show a hero (even a dubious pirate one) to smack women even if they were villainesses.

Also anyone else play Infamous? Even during the Evil Route Cole has got to be the pansiest "villain" ever. He is so whipped by his girlfriend that its laughable and pathetic despite supposedly not upholding society's moral beliefs.

I think the only time I've ever seen a male protagonist off women and no one says shit about them suddenly not being heroes for killing women was Snake and Raiden in MGS4 (when they killed all those Frog soldiers who are full suit women).
>> No. 31301
>>30861
That's what Legend of Korra is for. No one liked Mako (took a shit on real life Mako's image) and his brother Dumbass Retard. Hell even Tenzin sucked hard at protecting his family (seriously he looked pathetic being shown tied up right next to his kids as if he himself was a kid).
>> No. 31302
>>31301
But Korra was also a crappy character.

Man that series was so lame in general.
>> No. 31303
>>31301
That actually bothered me. Legend of Korra is the latest example of the infamous cliche:

"To make women cool, let's make male characters unbearably lame or unlikable assholes."

You covered Mako, Bolin, and Tenzin, you only forgot to mention how out of their way they made Meelo to be disgusting compared to his sisters and how the villains were both (well three if you count Sato) men with not a single female antagonist in the mix.

It was essential Social Justice Reverse Sexism.
>> No. 31304
>>30939
Well that's a probem. If a man rears a family and he ends up having a daughter rather than a son, the man will turn into the biggest White Knight Faggot just to protect his "little princess."

Sorry fellas, you want Oda to not treat women with the kiddy gloves? Too bad. You will never see Zoro cut up a female (lest she's mannish, grotesque, or fat and ugly) or Luffy not get interrupted at the prospect of beating up an attractive female antagonist.

And as for that unfunny "joke" that Nami does where she beats up the ENTIRE crew (minus Robin because she's another woman meaning she's exempt from the beatings) for no reason. Don't expect that bullshit to go away any time soon. You don't see other series dropping that kind of bullshit.

FMA had Ed get battered around by Winry til he was bleeding fountains of blood and the bitch gets rewarded by marrying him (then again a woman wrote FMA, so not surprised she loves this bullshit gag). Other examples like Familiar Zero come to mind. Possibly one of the few times I was glad a creator died because his work was a piece of shit with tsundere abuse. Hell even Naruto still allows Sakura to beat the shit out of him for no reason and the faggot never hits her back either because Kishimoto doesn't allow it.

If these other series don't drop this crap, then I don't see One Piece doing it either. I keep imagining a chapter where Sanji is castrated by a woman and he being such a White Knight Faggot would probably ENJOY it since he's such a pathetic embarrassment of a man.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>> No. 31305
Don't you normally post on /jam/ and /co/?
Have you finally gotten dispirited at being banned so much you've decided to try it on a board where you won't be recognized immediately?
>> No. 31306
>>31305
What, you think people aren't going to recognize him immediately here?
>> No. 31307
>>31304
lol you got banned. No need to talk politics.
>> No. 31308
>>31304

>You will never see Zoro cut up a female (lest she's mannish, grotesque, or fat and ugly)

But Monet????
>> No. 31309
>>31308
Monet wasn't ugly in her human form and even in her bird mutant harpy form the marines said she was attractive. So she does count as a "hot chick" and as a result, Oda White Knighted for her. Hell even Caesar stabbing her was a complete unintended accident that was never planned by the guy but then again we're not talking about villains treating their underlings poorly, we're talking about heroes/protagonists doing this to attractive females.
>> No. 31310
File 137123561752.jpg - (23.09KB , 280x207 , vivihit.jpg )
31310
>>31304
Hey what's going on. Just here to prove your entire rant wrong.

Have fun in ban land.
>> No. 31312
>>31310
Doesn't count, because Luffy let her beat him up afterwards. Plus Oda's daughter was not born yet meaning that Oda wasn't emotionally as big a white knight back then. And still what about all the beatings Nami dishes out with no one hitting the cunt right back? Fuck you.

I sincerely hope that Oda's daughter is either stolen from him by his wife in divorce court so that he sees a sample of the true nature of women as he loses a lot of his assets OR I hope his wife and daughter are brutally murdered one day via accident or any other reason.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>> No. 31313
>>31312
How inadequate are you in bed? Be honest with me now. Is it erectile dysfunction? Is it below 5 inches fully erect?

You have some dark demons, child.
>> No. 31315
>>31308
He refused to hurt her no matter how much she attacked him, apart from that minor scratch to show her he COULD harm her if he wasn't pulling a Sanji for no explainable reason.
Even after he cut her in half without using Haki she got back up again and moved to attack until Tashigi actually delivered a bloody backslash.

Its really weird, because in the old days such as Whiskey Peak he didn't seem to have such an aversion to inflicting harm on women even when they weren't in his league, he crushed muscle-chick's skull until she passed out and also knocked out a pair of assassins, a child and a woman posing as a nun and an innocent kid with the back of his blade.
But for some reason now he refuses to even strike proper non-lethal impacts, while when it comes to dudes he still cuts them down with large jets of blood shown.

Man I wonder if Rebecca is gonna be as much of a total jobber as Tashigi, its pretty horrible to watch.
>> No. 31316
Goddammit that's not the point of Zoro/Monet and fuck this thread for going back to it.
>> No. 31317
>>31316
Well hey fuck you too buddy. It was a pretty bad scene though.
>> No. 31320
>>31315
Will it really be jobbing if some random male main character saves her from the consequences?
>> No. 31324
>>31320
Its pretty tiresome watching every chick that tries to fight 'like a man' being so pathetic and having no credibility.

Boa Hancock is only a semi-exception, she might fight physically but she still relies on her sex-powers and the fact her blows get buffed so that they turn things to stone.
Plus that bitch is crazy from childhood abuse and her main joke is how obsessed she is with Luffy (for punching out one of the caste that abused her) while he's not interested.
>> No. 31326
>>31303
Yeah, but I don't think Mako and Bolin were intentionally loser faggots

They were trying too hard with Mako to recreate Fanfiction Zuko, a smoldering coolguy firebender who realizes his girlfriend is shit and goes for the hot waterbender. Bolin was supposed to be Sokka now in Earth Flavor
>> No. 31328
>>31326
Bolin could have been Sokka until they went with "Bolin makes me lol" and made him a limp-dicked loser who barely qualified as a secondary character.
I mean look at how he is first introduced, girls calling his name, known for always bringing his fangirls into the locker room, and then look at him for the rest of the series.

Even if Sokka was a guy who had alot of pratfalls the dude was a pimp, and he actually contributed with his smarts and even with his boomerang at times.
>> No. 31329
>>31324
Boa Hancock somewhat annoys me. She's nothing more than a joke character and an embarrassment for the Shichibukai organization. While Buggy being a Shichibukai is funny, Hancock being a joke doesn't work. I felt like the reason Oda didn't have Luffy punch her face in was because he wanted to white knight for her (since she isn't grotesque or fat). So here we have this mean nasty queen bitch who mistreats even women (she seemed more like a misanthrope aka hating ALL of everything that exists beyond the human species) and at the convenient last moment "Sob backstory" so that Luffy doesn't want to fight her anymore and then came the heavy handed bullshit about Love Sickness which is up there with horribly written parts of One Piece like Sanji's nose bleed being treated like a serious incident that he was going to die off.

All this sack of bullshit just so Oda doesn't have to draw Luffy beating up a woman and so that Boa Hancock ended up being his most obsessive fangirl. Now I realize that Hancock could have been stronger than Luffy, but let's be honest with ourselves this is SHOUNEN. A genre of Japanese comics famous for pulling DEM out the ass just of have protagonists win their conflicts. Need I remind people of "Nightmare Luffy" mode?

As you say, when it comes to female characters like men it comes to two reasons why they fail to complete the packaged experience:

1) The mangaka is a white knight and wants to protect even female antagonist/villainesses.

2) End result is they never measure up in terms of substance.

Speaking of this issue anyone else laugh at the scene in Dragon Ball Z when Videl got her ass handed to her? Even the audience watching the fight was going to the referee "Stop the fight! Can't you see its an innocent woman being beaten! Stop it!"

That was so fucking retarded, I seem to recall that Goku and Krillin started those tournaments as little children and no one ever called out for the fights to be stopped just because they were kids getting thrashed by adults. But Videl? She was a twat who was a fucking teenager and old enough to consent to the rules of the tournament and stubbornly rejected giving up every chance she got by the referee. I'm supposed to feel sorry for her thrashing? No way, she got everything she deserved. After refusing to throw in the towel the second time all her suffering was self inflicted.

Anyways, I hate how most mangakas are white knight pussy begging faggots. The only time I recall a heroic male completely murder the ass of a hot female villain was Roy Mustang vs Lust from FMAB:

Roy Mustang Vs Lust HDyoutube thumb

And the only reason I think this was allowed to happen was because FMA's manga was written by a woman.
>> No. 31330
>>31329
Man why do you ban-evade and come back here to post the exact same diatribes?

What is it about +4chan that keeps you returning so obsessively?
If you want to decry "Bitches & Whores" nonstop there's entire forums on the net dedicated to the subject where you can find like-minded peers.
>> No. 31331
>>31329
One Piece is a goofy series targeted at young boys. Those are jokes. Bad jokes, but jokes. Everything has faults when you scrutinize it to unreasonable and unwarranted levels. You're leagues away from Tumblr; suffice it to say nobody gives a shit about any of this, you nuisance.

Furthermore, you have yet to answer my question about your sad penis. Or is it perhaps that you yearn to have a penis? Oooh~

>>31328
>>31326
And yet Bolin is still widely regarded as one of the more likable characters in that whole series. Also a cutie. Also funny. Also brave. Also this is not /a/.
>> No. 31332
>>31331
Its called sympathy, people feel bad at him for being so pathetic and that the writers screwed him over so badly.

Its not hard to be
>>regarded as one of the more likable characters in that whole series
when your closest comparisons are Mako and Korra.
>> No. 31334
File 137132603344.jpg - (50.46KB , 900x845 , 133670852076.jpg )
31334
>>31332
I know why I like him. Amirite? Amirite?!
>> No. 31335
>>31334
Thats a large expanse of some easily ploughed earth right there.
>> No. 31336
File 137132698730.jpg - (9.64KB , 242x208 , adachi.jpg )
31336
Guys, you're arguing with Adachi-anon. Stop paying attention to Adachi-anon.
>> No. 31340
File 137134483556.jpg - (10.44KB , 245x206 , im.jpg )
31340
>>31331
Most Bolin talk in the circles I frequent just consider him wasted potential because he ended up becoming the silly underused green background character totally overshadowed by his red brother

At least he's not alone since that whole Makorra shitfest left Asami pretty shafted too
>> No. 31523
This thread
Fujoshi inclinations + Women's Studies platitudes + obvious breast envy = What boys like is wrong, and Oda should draw enlightened vaginally powerful womyn instead of sexually attractive ones.
>> No. 33009
>>31523
Did you really have to revive this thread just to shitpost?
>> No. 33018
I just wanna say, one of the only things that bothers me in the show now is Nami's outfit. I mean c'mon girl, put a freaking shirt on. Yes, we're all very impressed with your boobs.

I dunno, it's just a pet peeve really, but something about Nami's permanent bikini top just kinda irks me.

While it also doesn't bother me much, I have to admit that every chick looks kinda the exact fucking same now. I just kinda wish that there was another fat badass chick like Alvida.
>> No. 33023
>>33018
Alvida wasn't any more badass than say, Jora.
>> No. 33394
>>31294
This.
Looks like some precocious first-year Womyns Studies/slut walkers found a new soapbox.
[Return] [Entire Thread] [Last 50 posts] [First 100 posts]


Delete post []
Password  
Report post
Reason