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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

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27842 No. 27842

New chapter is out
97 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 27947
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Well mostly because she looks neat with them, and what's Robin if not someone who maims people in neat looking ways?
>> No. 27948

One Piece is definitely a few large steps ahead of other popular shonen manga when it comes to having strong female characters (both in terms of characterization and literal combat prowess). Even before she was able to do more than whack people with a staff, Nami filled an indispensable role in the crew and had the full respect of her friends. Robin was introduced as a big goddamn threat, and the combination of her devil fruit power and esoteric knowledge makes her one of the most dangerous Strawhats. Similarly, several secondary female characters and villainesses stand out due to sheer dangerousness and/or strength of will (Vivi comes to mind).

That said, Oda isn't perfect. Nami and Robin haven't had proper one-on-one miniboss fights since the timeskip, Hancock's lovesickness (though amusing) has eclipsed her former imperious attitude, and Tashigi has never really been a proper rival for Zoro. On top of that, most women who aren't presented as comically ugly have an identical hourglass figure that seems like a waste of the artist's character design skills.

So yeah, it definitely could be a lot worse, and there are some great examples of how to do things right. But that doesn't mean no one has any right to complain when there's wasted potential. Maybe Tashigi will get better in the future, but the buildup is certainly gradual if that's what's happening.
>> No. 27950
Fairy Tail is probably better in that department, despite the rampant fanservice.
>> No. 27952
Question. If I make a "One Piece Feminism and Social Justice" thread, would I be able to report people who talk about it outside of said thread? Or would it not actually matter and just generally make things worse?
>> No. 27954
Since you would just be trying to pigeonhole anyone you disagree with that would be a dishonest move
>> No. 27955

>Alvida is Buggy's bitch.



>Robin was Croc's bitch.

Except for the fact that she only worked under him to save her own skin? 'Sides, EVERYONE in BW was Croc's bitch if that's what you think "working for" means.

>Thinking Hancock's swooning for Luffy is anything but a parody of that trope.

And yet she's still the badass leader she was before. Her competency hasn't changed at all.
>> No. 27956

>Alvida is Buggy's bitch.



>Robin was Croc's bitch.

Except for the fact that she only worked under him to save her own skin? 'Sides, EVERYONE in BW was Croc's bitch if that's what you think "working for" means.

>Thinking Hancock's swooning for Luffy is anything but a parody of that trope.

And yet she's still the badass leader she was before. Her competency hasn't changed at all.
>> No. 27959
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This entire discussion is meaningless.

There's a difference between a perceived social injustice and a real social injustice. Having the majority of your cast be male and giving female characters a distinctly minor role in comparison to those male characters is a perceived social injustice. The injustice of it is something that the readers impose onto it via interpretation.

Now, if we had a woman who was legitimately incompetent and weak due to her having a vagina (as in, the book were to explicitly say or imply so) or Oda wanted to have a big fight with Robin/Nami versus a big bad and his editors told him no "cuz boys wouldn't like it" or we had something real and substantial to imply misogyny then that'd be a real social injustice that'd need fighting or controversy. As of right now? All we have is Tashigi being kind of a wimp and no real sign of her improving. Is this a real injustice? Well... honestly that's a bold and somewhat controversial claim to make, so it's not something I think we can exactly pinpoint unless we take her into scope in entirety. If she really does turn out to be useless to the bitter end then we'll have something to hold against Oda, but if we go making these claims and arguments and she suddenly turns around and reveals she had some kinda insane devil-fruit power the marines didn't want her unexpectedly unleashing (so they gave her over to smoker for 'safe keeping') then we'll look like the fools in the end. So I think it's safer to say this is an perceived social injustice.

And here's the problem when you have perceives social injustices: You can't really correct them. Because even if what the author wrote isn't 100% politically correct, even if what he's written doesn't completely take into account our growing multicultural world, even if what he's written is at least PARTIALLY held back from a xenophobic or gender discriminating culture, it's at least honest in that political incorrectness and perceived injustice. And when you take an author being honest and expressive and then basically tell him he has to fulfil a cultural mandate rather than tell a story, the result always comes across as phony, manipulative or just plain insensitive in it's own right. The more you (and the author) DRAW ATTENTION to social issues, the more easy it becomes to have something be offensive in it's own way.

It's the overly stupefying drive to be multinational rather than simply honest and entertaining that leads to shit like the Burger King Kids club and it's own brand of cultural racism (the black kid is good at sports and likes basketball? What a supriiiise. And the Asian kid is the smart one who's good at computers? gee willikers I didn't see that comiiiing) or you get crap like Barb Wire that thinks that if a woman is angry and shooting men with guns and hates being called pet-names that makes her strong and independent.

tl;dr just don't give a shit and try to enjoy something for what it is. If you're too obsessed with social justice to the point where seeing the horrid site of a minority or woman getting minor or less important roles sends you into bitter rant mode then you might wanna consider either getting more proactive in the entertainment industry and possibly changing it (which IIRC: Gail Simone did) or you might just wanna stop reading typical shonen manga/watching typical Hollywood films for a while.

Pitching this shit on forums and image-boards only sparks name-calling and makes you look like an ass.
>> No. 27960
A lot of good points are made here.

But I think it's also important to note that you can enjoy something for what it is and actively criticize elements of it. One Piece is still my favorite published comic from any nation, even though I'm tired of the Barbie bodies and whatnot. You should always be willing to question what is presented to you; to do otherwise invites intellectual stagnation.

(yes I know I'm just shoveling more coal into a derailed train, but frankly the alternative isn't much better in my eyes, given the general content of this board)
>> No. 27961
>This entire discussion is meaningless.

So why do you keep talking about it? It's universally agreed whoever disagrees with these points is retarded; just give it a rest.
>> No. 27962
So far as I'm concerned, so long as there are strong women in One Piece, there being weak women regarding combat doesn't matter.

I will say that perhaps Oda gets his female characters too involved in blackmail though. Even now with Monet she's all 'I'm gonna do this because some asshole'll do something bad if I don't.' Which is pretty much Robin and Nami.

If anything, the fact she's following that line is the biggest thing fans could say for her joining up. But then, Bonnie's probably the same at this point...
>> No. 27963
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>latter half of thread


>> No. 27964
Naw, I don't buy it. There wouldn't even be a new chapter right now if it were a normal week.

In all honesty, now that I've given it some thought, I'd say it's a good thing that /op/ has something new to rage about now that old Jumbo's out of the spotlight. It keeps this place from becoming a sort of depressing graveyard that nobody posts in for days at a time.
>> No. 27967
I've already got something to rage about this week: It's 2:37 AM and Pirate Warriors still isn't up to download yet. Clearly they are trying to make me cry. DON'T THINK I WON'T, SONY.
>> No. 27968
oh shit I forgot about that, I've been on the Tekken Tag 2 grind

I gotta get it now
>> No. 27969
TT2 is so fucking hype.
>> No. 27978
Why does it seem like Oda takes a break every two weeks?
>> No. 27979
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tashigi's not really implied to be completely weak, she started out weaker than zoro and after the timeskip she got beat by a shichibukai and g-5's other vice admiral
>> No. 27980
She's deflected a cannonball and blocked one slash Zoro was aiming at someone else.
Really the only problem with her is she's never had any shots at gaining credability, whenever she has gotten into a fight its always her running in and getting spanked in seconds apart from minor things like beating those two mooks in her intro, and often then some guy needs to jump in and save her weak ass.

As a swordfighter she is completly lacking in credability.
>> No. 27981

Because you only notice when things go wrong, while ignoring all the times they don't. This time I think it was a month of straight chapters. Why he takes so many breaks in general can probably be attributed to his newfound directorial aspirations in regards to the big One Piece movies.
>> No. 27984
I'm sure she's not a completely useless individual. She has gotten paired up with pretty OP people. She seems to have done.. fairly okay during the war. She was shown going one-on-one with a Whitebeard pirate.. so.. Eh. It doesn't really matter; she's not an important character.

He's not directing the movie, he's only "helping" out with it. I imagine it's more akin to a producer or story editor role he's taking on.
>> No. 27985
hopefully his role in the movie will be advising whats important

"hey, this scene is great and all, but don't you think we could show off Robin's cleavage some more? And what about Nami, maybe we could have an upskirt at this moment"
>> No. 27986
Oda is not like that, shut your fucking mouth.
>> No. 27987
Whatever Oda's specific role in the movie's production is, it is identical to his role in Strong World. Or at least close enough that any difference in workload is negligible.
>> No. 27988

Yeah, Oda doesn't do upskirts! He's more of a "zoom in on tiny tight shorts" type of guy.
>> No. 27990
Oda is a fucking perv and proud of it, calm yourself fanny for you do not need to defend his honour
>> No. 27992
Speaking of pervs, did it weird anybody else out that there was a shot of Doflamingo lounging around with a bunch of scantly clad ladies? I honestly though such a flagrant display of heterosexuality was just plain something he didn't have in him.
>> No. 27993
Doflamingo's gaudy and crazy, but he's never been very 'gay.'
>> No. 27994
He always struck me as the "anything that moves" type.
>> No. 27995
Yeeeeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and make Doflamingo bi in my headcanon, if you don't mind. He's partly based on David Bowie - a notorious pseudo-bisexual, so. He taps Baby 5 AND Buffalo at the same time. Rawr.
>> No. 27999
On second thought I changed my mind. The word I was thinking of was "not-weirdness."

If someone says that he forced the woman trying to murder him into a maid dress because that's one of his kinks I think yeah, seems legit. And when people say that he really was hitting on Croc all war long I think yeah, seems legit. But when I see him just sort of hanging out around with women in contextually appropriate sexy outfits, who don't seem to be emotionally distressed or uncomfortable in any way, I think huh, really? You're not going to puppet them while they cry, or make them wear full bunny girl outfits in the pool, or anything? Really?
>> No. 28000
Doflamingo comes off more as "campy" rather than gay.

I mean, don't get me wrong, he could be gay for all I know, but his actions don't really fit his aesthetic all that much. What with all the okamas we have anyway I think it's clear to say that he acts decidedly different.
>> No. 28001

I always got homo vibes from Iceburg. But yeah, every gay person in One Piece is a cannibalistic crossdressing monster. It's just how shit rolls, I guess.
>> No. 28002
Shanks has no women in his crew and his crew spend most of their time chilling in remote locations

just throwing that out there
>> No. 28003
Yasopp also kinda abandoned his wife and kid to go chase "adventure" with dudes.
>> No. 28007
Remember, ADVENTURE is something you can fall in love with in One Piece instead of romantic love for others, so they are in love with adventure not gay for each other.

That DOES mean Yasopp abandoned his family to cheat on his wife with ADVENTURE though.
>> No. 28008
ADVENTURE's a slut.
>> No. 28009
oh god the wait for the next chapter, at least I'm gettin Kaizoku Warriors soon

So I vaguely remember Luffy saying he wants a crew of ten way back at some point and it wouldn't be surprising if they pick at least one person up while traveling the New World. How powerful of a member would Oda let join? It's been established time and time again that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are the big three fighters and I hardly see him breaking that dynamic, so I figure it'd have to be someone below them (ruling jinbe out, I highly doubt he'll be a full member). Breaking that dynamic could feel pretty cheap, you have these three guys we've known for so long then out of the blue we get someone who is stronger than Sanji or Zoro or on par with them.

It'd probably be a brand new character but if it was someone we've seen I might think it was someone who fought in the war with Luffy. He could be a random pirate under one of the many New World captains or, for a big twist, one of Whitebeard's former commanders, obviously one of the lower ranking ones. Out of all the things we expect to find in the New World the status of Whitebeard's crew is possibly the one that interest me the most besides Blackbeard and of course Raftel.
>> No. 28011
Don't wanna come off as annoying, and I'll totally admit that the rug could be pulled out from under us, but IF WE DO GET A NEW NAKAMA FOR THIS ARC (which is honestly pretty 50/50 either way) it'll probably be one the Strawhats free from Donflamingo's control.

You got a great setup for a tragic backstory and everything.
>> No. 28012

> it'll probably be one the Strawhats free from Donflamingo's control.

Derp. I mean one of the crewmen.
>> No. 28013
It doesn't matter how strong they are, any character that joins up with the Strawhats now would feel odd. That timeskip, to me, solidified them as one crew and family. Someone joining up out of the blue in the New World would never really fit in or be considered a "true Strawhat".. At least in my eyes, anyway; can't speak for other people.
I kinda doubt we'll be getting a new Strawhat. Probably just a bunch of honorary sidekick people a la Jinbe, Shirahoshi, Kinemon, etc.
>> No. 28015
I sort of agree with that, but on the other hand it feels like people could have easily said that before Brook or Chopper joined.
>> No. 28016
I feel like if he his going to bring in another member, it has to be sooner rather than later, and I'm talking as soon as the next arc. If you want a new member they need time to sink in, have us learn their history and how they eventually come to be a full part of the crew. I'm definitely not against another member since the New World has so many possibilities, I kinda hope its another female because that would possibly bring new dynamics as opposed to another guy
>> No. 28017
Well yeah, there are different types of love - romantic, or "eros", is just one type.
>> No. 28018

Yeah but all the other types are mostly afterthoughts and generally hella lame to bring up.

Can you deal

with being hella lame?

I doubt it.
>> No. 28019
>Yeah but all the other types are mostly afterthoughts and generally hella lame to bring up.
You bitch.
>> No. 28020
Eh, even Brooke still feels a little out-of-place since he never really had a solidifying arc before Sabaody.

New nakama now would feel weird too.

And if we have one more, we'd need a few more to go with it so they wouldn't feel THAT our-of-place.

But then it'd be even harder getting them their own development, so eeeeeh.
>> No. 28021
Fishman Island was actually pretty kind on Brook. Before the timeskip I'd agree with you, but recently Brook's really started to fit in more and feel like a true member.
>> No. 28022
I agree but I think its simply because of his character and story, a new nakama, if done right, would be fine, and theres plenty of opportunity for a new one

I like Brooke, I like all of the Straw Hats, but I just dont feel that attached to him. Its gotten even worst since the time skip, cracking skull jokes even more than before, if thats even possible, and he just kinda feels like an outsider. The whole LABOOOOOOOOOON thing doesn't do anything for me either.
>> No. 28024
The only difference between a bad strawhat and a good strawhat is time. Franky was really new to me, and iffy, but now I can't imagine the strawhats without him being super.
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