>Aluvida

God damn it, Toei.

>>26614
Anime did alot of that much better. they built anticipation for nami for christsake.

Anyways the greater point is the impact of characters beyond just who they are and where they are, but how the world reacts to them and how the narrative makes a place for them beyond just "meet them and then some stuff happens". Yes the supernovas wouldnt meet luffy but with how many newspapers nami got dropped off there was never a hidden tipoff to the viewer that in retrospect would be oda saying "hey check this shit out"

bib mom and blackbeard are large overarching things, like mihawk, shanks, or one piece itself, which i already covered as being seperate things.

building up the idea of the davy back fight would have made luffy engaging in it awesome, or having some guys in the background reacting to losing their captain. Remember how great it was when we finally met the giant goldfish? oda has yet to top anything like that. (stringing along acts within a character arc across several story arcs like with blackbeard doesnt count, its not setup and payoff in the same sense)

now i'm just thinking about how amazing the first part of the anime was. wasnt it awesome how you had no idea who nami was but you knew she'd be important and the way they played with her interacting around luffy was great? Wasnt it super sweet how you get this big "Oh fuck this guy zoro" moment at the end of episode 1? Wasnt it super clever how they foreshadowed buggy but then delayed it intentionally by integrating luffy's backstory into the start of a story arc where we'd get immediate payoff for it?

the anime is kinda boring nowadays and the manga isnt helping much either. :/ (How many people forgot that the samurai torso was underwater the first time you read this week's chapter? show of hands.)

>>26618
Buggy, Krieg and Kuro didn't affect the world around them at all. Neither did Arlong, really, although he at least had a reason to do so.
The giant goldfish wasn't supposed to be foreshadowing: back when we heard Usopp say it, it was just a lie. To realize IT'S REAL was great, but that's not what you're advocating at all.
Really, all you're saying is the anime is supposedly better at foreshadowing because it shows off a lot of stuff earlier than it's supposed to (and usually to no purpose at all.) Nothing was gained by saying "Hey, you're going to meet Nami. You'll do it soon! This is going to be a SURPRISE." All it does is dilute that original scene where she came practically out of nowhere, a mystery thief who was able to tie Luffy up in under a second. And One Piece is and always has been all about those.

>>26618

>Yes the supernovas wouldnt meet luffy but with how many newspapers nami got dropped off there was never a hidden tipoff to the viewer that in retrospect would be oda saying "hey check this shit out"

Did you ever consider that in a moment of clarity Oda decided to Show Don't Tell, and the entire Sabaody archipelago arc WAS the "newspaper"? That instead of just being a story in and of itself, the entire arc was made to set up future plot points so that when the Supes DO become actually important it won't seem like an asspull that there are a bunch of important pirates that Luffy and co never met? That knowing that there are a bunch of +100 mil pirates out there holding grudges and respect towards the strawhats, with powers only teased and certainly recently expanded, that have been up to who-knows-what, is actually a way to build expectation too? KIDD'S FUCKING WITH YONKOU! Without Sabaody that news would pretty much mean nothing at all (BUT IT'D BE EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED HUH HUH)

>bib mom and blackbeard are large overarching things, like mihawk, shanks, or one piece itself, which i already covered as being seperate things.

WHY? They're antagonists that will eventually be confronted. There's no difference! You're just arbitrarily dividing characters into categories for the sole purpose of proving your point.

"Yeah, you may TECHNICALLY be right, but diddle dee dee boo wop doo wop hurga furga! Checkmate, motherfucker."

>davy back fight

You wanted Oda to hype up an arc he specifically designed to be a goofy nonsense break between two arcs that contained, among other things, literal genocide? Huh?

>Wasn't the anime supa supa sugoi ~(*ﾟ▽ﾟ*)~

No. Fuck the anime. You're letting the fact that arcs were shorter back then fool you into thinking there was a lot more time between things that actually happened very close together.

>>26618
>(How many people forgot that the samurai torso was underwater the first time you read this week's chapter? show of hands.)

Somebody isn't paying attention~ Don't blame that on the story.

>>26623
bad storytelling is bad. (current arc is the sloppiest shit ever, nothing but setups for nami to be naked multiple times before the conclusion and barely coherent motivations. oh but vegapunk might show up so i guess that excuses everything durrrp)

>>26622
Yes because building up to minor elements doesnt make the story more fun. who cares about good storytelling practices? (its super obvious you're barely even reading the post because you're looking at just the most superficial level of what's being said. also the handling of nami in the anime was a masterstroke of good cartoon storytelling, you nincompoop) Also i never said "replace saobody with this." i said "these characters not having a presence in the narrative world of the story before this arc feels like he just made them up as he was planning the arc." Plenty of story elements exist beyond who luffy and crew meet, because (now here's the kicker) you can introduce elements to the READER that the CHARACTERS dont know yet. Thats called "setup and payoff"

>>26620
There was that presence within the world, leading up to thier reveal you got hints of who these characters were or even minor things to help you anticipate them, alot of it was the work of the season 1 anime staff directors.

starting off with a better alvida reveal, tieing that into zoro, and then using the morgan story to set up buggy, only to delay it for 2 episodes while setting up the importance of luffy's hat, which has major payoff in the buggy arc, was really solid on the editor's part. it made the story better and gave it a much more natural flow. left to his own devices oda over-lavishes in his characters and battles and just drags shit out so long you're wondering when the arc will fucking end and they'll get to the next island already. He's a pretty good ideaman but his technique is inherently flawed. What was the point of Mantra, Rokushiki, or the Davy Back Fight to the world itself? All of these elements were introduced as "oh these are interesting new elements of the one piece world" but nobody's talked about "voices" since they left skypiea. its sloppy. narrative ideas have to have presence going in and going out or they're just left feeling isolated from the rest of the story. *insert apologetists saying "its meant to be that way i dont understand storytelling but i like nami's tits"*

>>26629
You realize mantra and rokushiki are everywhere, right? The fact that you've said nobody mentioned "voices" pretty much proves you're making up shit to either desperately prove a completely inaccurate point, or are just trolling.

>>26630
It's unbelievable how easy it is to prove you wrong.

Also, why should the Davy Back Fight show up again? It's just a game. Who cares? That's not something that needs a ton of foreshadowing and consequences on the world around it. Why do you keep going back to that?

>>26629
>bad storytelling is bad. (current arc is the sloppiest shit ever, nothing but setups for nami to be naked multiple times before the conclusion and barely coherent motivations. oh but vegapunk might show up so i guess that excuses everything durrrp)

Once again, don't blame the narrative on you not paying attention to what's going on. Especially since "Nami"'s not gotten any more naked than usual (which happened about twice and is blatantly just side comedy), everyone's got plenty of motivation (Law's being the only one absent -- BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE MYSTERIOUS AND UNKNOWN), and Vegapunk has not and will not be showing up at all.
Boy, lookit all day paying attention I'm doing.

>>26631
Man i totally forgot about that part because this story is a million years long and wont end until i'm fuckin 50. :(

>>26632
If you werent paying attention oda is setting up 2+ nude scenes with nami this arc.

yay for treating women with respect in media :(

>>26634
Wow you're stupid.

>>26635
>sanji jumps into poison lake to save torso after brook explains explains about a story where a girl's clothes get melted by poison >setup 1

>samurai who makes clothes that vanish when they are taken off. combine this with the previous scene and you get >setup 2

nami is an integral character to the crew!!!

my friend: to be fair its unfair of oda to expect his audience to have to pay attention :((((((
me: its unfair of him to spend 20 years telling a 5 year story
my friend: :((((((((((( TOO BAD SO SAD

>>26636
I'm guessing you never heard of a joke, have you? See Oda likes to make them.

You're really going to define Nami's importance with a single sex joke?(In One Piece? OMGWTFBBQ) You're even more stupid than I thought.

>>26638
nami used to be pretty important.

now she's just kind of nakey abunch.

I guess all that Navigating the Navigator does isn't important.

Ohhhh I get it. You just don't like One Piece.

Well OP, since you clearly don't read One Piece for the storytelling, characters, humor, art or apparently anything related to One Piece itself, all I can suggest is maybe you should fuck off back to the Fairy Tail ezboard account you crawled out of.

No offence.

>>26643
>implying someone who likes foreshadowing would like Fairy Tail
>i.e. the crown jewel of really obvious asspulls in manga

>>26595

Oda foreshadowed Jinbei and the whitebeard war HUNDREDS of chapters in advance, or did you forget about those?

Pretty fucking sure OP is a troll. And if not, clearly a retarded 12-year-old who stumbled into his first good manga series and doesn't know how to handle it.

Either way, done replying to this thread.

Honestly I think we've been seeing MORE build-up in the past few arcs. Jinbei was first alluded to way back in the Arlong arc and didn't make his first appearance until the Impel Down arc.

Blackbeard first showed up back in Jaya and has yet to really show his true narrative potential. Same goes for Donflamingo

We've already had hints about the remaining two Emperors and have yet to even get a clear look at them.

>>26643
>why would i like fairy tale at all?

>i dont actually like manga :(

used to really like one piece now its super boring and disjointed as fuck and also it will never end :(

>>26650
When people use animeterms and internetrules to judge people and storytelling, and not actual narrative rules that carry across all mediums. (sorry, one piece needs an editor. then it will be awesome)

>>26656
>i dont actually like manga :(

Why the fuck are you here then?!

>>26657
Any narrative issues brought up in this shitty thread have been invalidated. The problem isn't with the story but with you. The forshadowing and buildup has become more complex since the rudimentary "show next nakama in cutaway before next arc" routine in the early seasons. Things that are significant get buildup, noone gives a fuck if standalone jokes like the giant goldfish gets it.

Guys, I'm here to tell you all something important, that I think all of you need to hear.

Sometimes, you just have to let someone be wrong on the internet. Just let it go. It's not worth the effort. I'm posting this instead of a giant multiparagraph rebuttal. Just, click open a new tab, and close the one with your post. Then, hide the thread. There is nothing worth your time here.

>>26659
Me: >>i dont actually like manga :(

You: >Why the fuck are you here then?!

Me: >>used to really like one piece

reading comprehension (Did you know its possible to like one piece without giving a shit about other mangas? For instance: "I like Sonic rush but i dont give a shit about any other Sonic game after Sonic and Knuckles" see how that works? Its called "liking a thing without associating yourself with it entirely")


Also having the big overarching things that will eventually be resolved instead of having frequent smaller things with a fast turnarround...are you saying its a plus to replace one with the other? Is this a Mass Effect 3 topic? (The joke is that Mass Effect 3 replaced many key, beloved features with newer features at the expense of the older ones and the product suffered for it for feeling much more uneven)


What if (now follow me on this) one piece had the narrative tightness that the earlier hundred or so episodes of the anime had. What if it had the big overarching things that get fed to us bit by bit as we go along but ALSO still had better setup of smaller themes so that there was more of a continuous feeling and buildup to the way the story flowed from one location to the next? (It is important to note that these two elements are different in nature with regards to storytelling because of their impact on the flow of the narrative. They are not the same "tool" for the author. You are wrong and probably simple if you think this and dont understand how and why stories are built. Just because one piece is better than alla tha othuh mangas doesnt mean it is without fault. Do not base your opinions on comparative analysis because that is inherently flawed and steeped in bias.)

Also having one character be the "guy who uses both these mechanics" isn't quite the same as theming it to the world. rokushiki and mantra didnt exist before those arcs, have there been other mentions of these things outside of coby/helmeppo (did helmeppo have any rokushiki maneuvers?) For instance: why didnt the fortune teller also hear the voices of fishmen being cut down?


heres something: Why was slavery not a part of the world before saobody? why werent the celestial dragons? not in name or feel. Suddenly now we're supposed to expect that this is a world where the marines support fat people in space costumes kidnapping innocent people in broad daylight all at once?

Yes there was a miniarc just before that to setup the slave market, but was there any indication that this was a world where that was allowed or supported before then? Suddenly there are RPG villains that rule the planet? Where the FUCK did that come from? Why did we never get an inkling that any such illicit activity was going on? Yes it was a cool way to explore arlong's backstory, but the theme of slavery still came out of nowhere. We never heard rumors about the government covering up kidnappings or even any setup for the idea of there being fat elves in bubbles that get to kill anyone they want and tell people what to do. Why is this? What kind of government setup would allow for this? Back in Arabasta we saw some conference that implied that rulers of islands had a democratic attitude towards sweeping legislation and that the marines were the upkeepers of that legislation. Now we just have a layer above that that makes the previous importance of a character like Cobra completely trivial. Its elements that are thought up after contradicting parts are laid in place. Its as striking as introducing a new backstory to luffy out of nowhere just so oda can setup a story down the line. The new element that is intended to set something else up is so striking from what came before it that THAT piece of story ALSO requires setup. Why did luffy never mention sabo? When luffy and ace met in arabasta there was never any indication that there was that third brother. You might be able to say "The S crossed out on ace's arm is for sabo" but that still doesnt really tie into luffy going backwards. the sabo backstory didnt have the same kind of impact on luffy's character or how we viewed him that zoro, sanji, or robin's backstories (or really anyone else in the crew) because narratively it was just crammed in there with no actual leadin or character element to give us light on. And if you say "Its mandatory pathos it has to be there" then I will punch you in the nose for missing the point. >:|

>>26662

the dragons lived on the red line and they were never near there and the slavery is there because the dragons LIVE RIGHT ABOVE SHABAODY

>>26664
>missing the point, youidiot :|

narrative failings, storytelling coherency. How the story feels to the reader from an objective standpoint. It doesnt matter that they live in one spot because the way they were introduced into the story was wrong. it was wrong and abrupt for such a tonal shift in how the world FEELS.

Hey guess what guys the marines support hitler also 9 new characters that didnt previously exist and a new backstory for luffy that was not properly setup so there is no real payoff to it back in the main story. oh but its the best manga so its okay if it does so many things wrong. Its incredibly sloppy and indicative of a TIRED AUTHOR. :/

>>26665
the strawhats are purposefully isolated so Oda can make stuff up as he goes along.
If I were you I'd take some of this continuity stuff with a grain of salt, writers/artists suffer blocks when constrained by their work.

>>26662
>Also having one character be the "guy who uses both these mechanics" isn't quite the same as theming it to the world. rokushiki and mantra didnt exist before those arcs, have there been other mentions of these things outside of coby/helmeppo (did helmeppo have any rokushiki maneuvers?) For instance: why didnt the fortune teller also hear the voices of fishmen being cut down?

Yes, there are other haki (because mantra IS one of the three main haki components: it WAS a foreshadowed thing) and rokushiki users. Hell, the Strawhats use several rokushiki techniques within themselves, and several marines were shown using it. Madame Sharly didn't hear fishmen voices because she doesn't use mantra, she's a fortune teller. They're not related.

And yes, fishman racism came up a long, LONG time before Sabaody did. The World Government also existed long before Sabaody. You only don't catch any of the big sweeping stuff because you apparently have no ability to pay attention whatsoever.
Luffy has never talked about any of his past, so the Sabo bit is irrelevant (he has never mentioned Sabo after that reveal, after all. Just like he never talked about Garp or Ace or Dragon.)

I'm not going to argue your overall point because you're just an idiot and >>26660 is right, but goddamn you are really too stupid and forgetful to be complaining about narrative coherency. You can't remember anything about the series right while you try and whine about it.

I think this may be less about the guy's attention span and a far more serious issue regarding his level of actual comprehension.

One Piece isn't the most complex of narratives, there is little to no subtlety involved. If you're not picking up on information that is not only given directly to the reader in big bad capitals letters across two page spreads, but on multiple occassions to boot, well.. I know you're trying your hardest to remember to breathe fella, but it might be easier for everyone involved if you just gave that a rest for a little while.

>>26670
>human slavery, abductions, and non-criminal murder a far bigger problem than fishmen racism. I was talking about THAT PART. the part that calls the entire marines organization and "way the world works" into question????

>>26675
Spandam happened before the Celestial Dragons and he exhibited everything wrong with the World Government already.

>>26677
Don't forget wiping Ohara off the map.

Biggest built up ever: Broock and Laboon.
Top that.

>>26679
Not that I'm in cahoots with this blatantly obvious troll or back up his shit claims, but that seemed to be more a case of Oda going, "Hmm, what can I tie Brook to? Oh, I know. That sad whale story from way back when and give them both a happy ending." Of course I'm not a mind reader and could be 100% wrong, but my chances are split evenly down the middle on this. If he really meant for there to have always been a connection, then we could have at least seen a silhouette of a man that looked like Brook when we first met Laboon.
It would be like saying "Oh of course Lucas meant to have always had Vader build C3PO as a child." . . When we know that is, in all actuality, most likely bullshit. It's not how connections in a narrative work.

>>26680
If he had shown a silhouette of Brook, with his distinctive afro, then people would have made the connection easily, thus ruining the reveal. Also his character design might've still been in process. You can plan character stories without a clear design for them. And Laboon was fond of the whole crew (thats the point of doing the last song they did together) so Brook didn't have to be the center of it.

The difference between this and that, is that C-3PO's origins was explained in a prequel and memory-erasing was involved. Its not the same.

>>26680
Didn't Oda explicitly state that he had Brook in mind when he wrote Laboon?

>>26680
>>26681
>>26682
One of the data books (Blue, maybe? The one with all the early character designs) had him mention that his original plan, from WAY back when the whole thing was going to last 5 years, was to have one of the crew be a Skeleton, who was a guy from the crew that adopted Laboon.

He did not, at that point, have an Afro, because he hadn't come close to a final design at all. Plus, I think the afro thing might have been added after the positive response to Afro Luffy, anyways.

>OP has no idea how to use green text properly

Fucking brilliant.

>>26683
Well, point proved.

>>26683
That was Green.

Also notable was the fact that Franky and Robin weren't part of the crew scheme at that point (their places taken by a tiny Fishman and a mad scientist-looking guy who apparently fought with plants respectively) and that Chopper was an adult.

>>26688
He did had a shipwright proto-Franky. It was a miserable-looking old man that looked more like a carpenter. Also, I think it was actually some sort of talking baby.

>>26689

Maybe the original shipwright was actually going to be the Klabauterman?

>>26689
>Also, I think it was actually some sort of talking baby.

Now I really like Franky, but...

>>26691
No, NO we do NOT want a talking baby more than the Franky we have and love.

>>26691
No no, the "tiny Fishman" he was talking about is the talking baby. Although, oddly enough -- and if my memory serves -- I think he was meant to be a shipwright along with the old man, too. So either they were two completely different ideas he had for one character, or at some point the Sunny was gonna have two shipwrights.

And Chopper looked more like an inebriated mule than a reindeer.

>>26660
I'm with this guy.