Are you trying to emulate punch-card alchemy?

>>67992
We've totally got a thing going on for that. You take two objects and depending on how you've got the tags set up, do some && or || stuff and you've got a completely new thing.

Are We Chill In This Thread?

Okay While I get my notes on the Clusterfuck that is my Attempt to build a Glitched to hell session (I figure since you're doing a normal one Mage, someone has to do the other end of the extreme...) I want you to consider this.

Kanaya apprenticed under Scratch and became all glowy killy.

Eridan apprenticed under angels and learned to channel energy that could be used to destroy hope itself.

Rose apprenticed under terrorhorrors and learned to do... well that was kind of covered in detail.

Point is apprenticing under some cosmic entity or another seems to be a thing in Sburb, and I think we should make a splat book for it.

Be right back with notes for Sburb Clusterfuck 10.

Fuckin finally, dawg.

I looked through the literature and couldn't find anything on stock materials and grist, and considering Sburb is made to make broken POS characters to begin with it doesn't seem like balance would necessarily be an issue, would anybody protest if I worked on drumming up a list of materials and traits/tags? (i.e. silver, brass, quicksilver/mercury, granite, water, sand, amber, &c.)

Anyone who's been through thread 2 knows about Ozz, my original charact donut steel. I wouldn't shut my mouth about him. anyway I went backwards when I was developing him, I rolled up his lands and quest after I had the seed of an idea, so now I'm doing things the other way.

I've decided on doing a traditional 5 man sentai team style thing, one of my glitches is that one of the players doesn't have a land, so I've banished him to the incipisphere, specifically the Planetoids that are on the edge where there are Labs and stuff like that.

So I don't have a name for him yet but my main character thoughts on him are, his Aspect is Void, He's got a thing for chrome, and he punches the crap out of things. It's his quest to learn the rules of the system and how to exploit him for his own gain, perfect location right?

Now another of my glitches is that Lands are Hazardous, and will always have dangerous elements. We'll cover that later in the mean time I have 4 lands.

continues --->

Green I will physically harm anyone who tries to stop you from dummying up some materials. Pic related.

Can you include shit like vibranium and kryptonite and other nerd shit?

Okay we've covered ozz's Planet and Quest. In brief The Land of Demons and Desrts. Ruled over by Lucifer the Morning Star in his Fortress-Palace Deep in the heart of the city of Pandemonium, he strikes down any who woul doppose him with a BITCHIN' electric guitar known as REBELLION'S KEENING. Ozz's quest is to descend into the pits of Despair, release the angels from their prison, and restore balance to the Planet and at large the incipisphere.

Now I rolled up 3 other lands.

The Land of Flotsam and Rock, this is a water world clearly, this PC will will have to perform a task or create a special item to improve the land.

The Land of Sound and Stars. This is...WIP, This PC will have to protect their land and consorts from some manner of impending doom.

The Land of Pumpkin and Revolution: nother impending doom quest.

>>67999
Anything I can fucking think of. I feel great, shame I wasn't this awake when I was around people earlier.

So it's not just a sloppy list, I'm gonna crack these out by basic elements, via base metals (the seven alchemic metals), then by some basic features (vegetable, liquid, stone, powder, unknown/other). This can have as little or as much relevance later as we decide, for now I'm using it to organise my list so it's not just all the stuff in one list. All of it.

Commencing work as soon as I shake off a friend messaging me.

>>68000
Cool brah, Adamantium and Orichalcum shit like that should be special materials for the production of ultra special weapons, armor and other stuff.

for the record my human characters age group is 13-15

Alright, I got a hope player, now I've got this d00d in an ultra special situation. He's not making use of a land like normal kids BUT he has access to the planetoids that the kids would normally only find in the late game.

Only problem is that there are active security systems and stuff like that so he needs the help of his friends and he needs it quick. Like lets say he sets up a Grist exchange terminal and makes use of Alchemtier equipment and stuff like that to make some decently high teir weapons so he stands achance of survival against all this high level badness that's being thrown his way.

Ozz being a stand up bro gives 75% of his grist take to his Sentai Loving space exiled friend and doesn't complain, not even for a second.

Speaking of which... Do we have rules on grist sharing yet?

Item materials
I: GOLD/SOLAR METALS
a.Gold [Soft; Virtually Insoluble; Valuable (high factour); Solar; Conductive (high factour); Lustrous]
b.Peryite [Soft; Light; Lustrous]
c.Mithril [Hard; Light; Valuable (medium factour); Solar; Lustrous; Magical (defensive)]
d.Star-Steel [Hard; Very Heavy; Solar; Magical (offensive)]
e.Electrum [Virtually Insoluble; Valuable (very high factour); Solar; Lunar; Lustrous; Magical (general); Effective vs Monstrosities (undead and cursed); Bad Juju]
f.Platinum [Valuable (very high factour); Solar; Lunar; Lustrous; Conductive (high factour)]
g.Orichalcum [Valuable (high factour); Solar; Lustrous; Hard; Protective; Conductive (medium factour); Bad Juju]

Finally Fuckin' figured out a good alternative to "Custom Stat" how about we replace it with "Mythos Trait"

Okay since I have a player stranded in the Incipisphere and the labs and all that other weird stuff, lets throw out everything vaguely related to lord english and his servants and all that wierd stuff and assume that only happens every few sessions or so.

What I'm getting at here is, These Planetoids contain devices and materials intended to be used Postgame, to help the Kids who've been taken by this game repopulate the incipisphere and the new universe that they'll have dominion over.

So what should we put in there aside from some phat loot?

>>68002
Orichalcum is my favourite mythical metal, that shit was so going in already.

II: SILVER/LUNAR METALS
a.Silver [Almost Insoluble; Soft; Lunar; Effective Against Monstrosities; Good Juju; Antibiotic; Magical (offensive); Valuable (medium factour); Tarnish (in non-pristine, industrial or vulcanic environments, items not tempered with another material will slowly decay, decreasing the efficacy of all traits) (medium factour); Lustrous]
b.Silver Salt [Photoreactive; Unresponsive To Monstrosities; Magical (protective); Powder; Lunar; Tarnish (very high factour)]
c.Amazonium [Light; Hard; Magical (protective); Virtually Insoluble; Lustrous; Valuable (high factour); Lunar]
d.Latinum [Lustrous; Non-Alchemitable; Valuable (very high factour)]
e.Grimacite [Incredibly Shitty; Lunar; Edible]

fuckgoddamn its harder to wrack my brains for this than I expected. Of course once this is included in literature it can be added to, I probably shouldn't strain myself.

>>68003
Oh, and I like this, get a few charts going, once we have a sample group we can start codifying and adding some crunch to the meanings.

Could someone post an example of an alcemization process and the stats for the finished items? Lets figure out how to make items and see if the process needs/can be expanded on.

>>68004
Excellent. Also we say fuck more between us than then entire eighth grade (I mean the whole thing, everywhere). I'm sure we look immature as fuck but I think it's fucking impressive.

Also, terraforming devices (was it you musing on some Fallout gear? Perhaps in such a session it would be the Garden of Eden device), an advance (non-pre-programmed) ectobiology lab, lifetime supply of canes, gold dentures, comically large jewelry, purple, gold and green suits and some kind of machine that restores potency if someone is sterile.

III: QUICKSILVER/MERCURIAL METALS
a.Quicksilver [Liquid; Toxic; Almalgamable (dissolves gold, silver, electrum and platinum, but very little else); Thermoreactive; Antibiotic]
b.Cinnabar [Toxic; Edible; Medicinal; Magical (general); Good Juju)
c.Prima Materia [Unstable; Antibiotic; Antiviral; Anticarcinogenic; Valuable (highest factour); Non-alchemitable; Healing Factour; Good Juju; Convertible (into other materials or grist, at will); Transmutive (turns less valuable base metals into Gold); Explosively Volatile]
d.Projecting Powder [Antibiotic; Antiviral; Transmutive]
e.White Mercury [Toxic; Light; Lustrous]
f.Red Mercury [Medicinal; Light; Explosively Volatile]
g.Panacea [Antiviral; Antibiotic; Anticarcinogenic]

>>68005
I always like Vibranium and Adamnatium myself.

Anyway, yeah brah, I know that feeling "How hard could it be?"

5 minutes later you come to a core understanding that finding 15 different names, and variations on saying "This item is THIS shitty/good/awesome" don't strain yourself, when its in the codex we can expand on it at a later date. Just try to have fun.

Think I'llmake Sentai-Dude ultra Perky and Optimistic and Selfless, Obviously I have to name him Byron, and make all the other Kids more selfesh to balance out Ozz and Byron's bromance.

Lookin' good so far. Lets group enemies in roughly three groups so we can build up a rock paper scissors thing.

Maybe a magic/technology thing?

Assshitting fucknipples my last post disappeared.

Anyway,
>>68004
Full-freedom advanced ectobiology lab (not preprogrammed), stasis chambers, the godtiers' morality clocks, terraforming tools (was it you that was on about Fallout themed things? assuming skaia reacts directly to the players in regards aside from the planets and roles, this could be a GECK, which would backfire hilariously upon "winning"), that sorta thing.

III:QUICKSILVER/MERCURIAL METALS
a.Quicksilver. Use your imagination, I don't feel like writing it again
b.Prima Materia. It's pretty unstable and non-alchemitable, those are its nerfs.
c.Panacea. Doesn't extend life, only healing factour and cures diseases (including cancer).
d.Projecting powder. Turns lead into gold. Not much else.
e.Cinnabar. It's both toxic and medicinal/edible. Also good juju.
f.White mercury. Toxic solid mercury.
g.Red Mercury. See above, crystalline and iirc explosive. Fuck this shit

>>68007
Fuck is like...My favorite fuckin' Swear word. All other swearwords are small time.

Well those are great options, and should be included but Byron is a Sentai Freak, I'm gonna have a heavy metal witch/priestess/whatever of Doom, A Commander of armies and stuff on Pumpkin revolution land, and I haven't figured out what to do with waterworld. Atlantis thing maybe?

Anyway yeah GECKs and other terraforming devices are a must, as are labs and engineering facilities and goggles that mutherfuckin' do something. So basically once I figure out my 5 kids I have to figure out what items would suit them and then put those on the labs.

I figure since shit is so dangerous there should be ruins and crashed starships and spelljammer sand what have you on every planet, they'll be infested with monsters and murder automotons and crap like that. Everyone's going to be playing Maximum Gore, Maximum difficulty, all day every day. Until they fuckin like it.

>>68009
>>68007
Imagine about seventy lines of nothing but ellipses. Now I don't have to type them.

Moving along
>>68008
Huh, never heard of vibranium. Sounds... Very weapon-grade. And grouping enemies into three groups how? As in enemy types (like, serpentine > mammal > avian > serpentine), enemy tactics (Finesse > Magic > Muscle > Finesse (cough pokemon cough)) or enemy attack modes (which I only think of because of magic/technology, and which Skannerz, actually a game that reminds me of Sburb's Alchemy in many ways, has conditioned me to believe would be Muscle > Tech > Magic > Muscle)?

IV:COPPER/VENEREAL (giggity) METALS
a.Copper [Tarnish; Lustrous; Valuable (low factour); Conductive (high factour); Good Juju; Detect Poison; Negates Joint Damage]
b.Blue Vitriol [Sulphurous; Soft; Crystalline; Solvent (low factour)]
c.To make this more modular and reduce my workload, anything metallic or close enough that concerns the planet venus, the concept of love, the element copper, any elements thought by the ancients to be copper should go here.

If it makes you feel better I've done shit like that before brah.

Alright Ever see the captain america Flik? It's on netflix, or you could get it at a redbox, it's pretty Cool. In the movieverse vibranium absorbs energy and doesn't give a single fuck. So basically cap can use it to block anything. Ever. Period.

Now 616 (that's the mainstream marvel comics univers. Don't it's TL;DR as fuck.) is a WHOLE different story.

616 Vibranium destroys metal upon touching it, as such it can obly be minded by hand. And there's variations on this shit, like "highly unstable arctic vibranium" whatever the fuck that means. Point is Vibranium will wreck your shit no matter which kind you use.

Adamantium is just like...a fuckin' tough metal. Good for armor and stuff.

and yeah Muscle>Tech>Magic is a great system, It lets us develop alchemized weapons to defeat an enemy that has a base type and all sorts of other cool equipment dealies. Very Old School RPG which is what Sburb is all about.

V:IRON/MARTIAN METALS (aka finally some more cool shit, and I can't wait to get out of the metals)
a.Iron [Hard; Heavy; Rusts (like tarnish, but only affects physical properties, however affects them more severely); Magical (offensive and defensive); Repels Monstrosities; Repels Angels; Repels Witches; Repels Fay; Sharp (keeps an edge, weapons don't need to be sharpened much)]
b.Carbon Steel [Very Hard; Heavy; Sharp]
c.Meteoric Steel [Hard; Sharp; Magical (general and offensive); Charged (electrically)]
d.Adamantium [Impermeable; Heavy; Decreased Mobility; Bad Juju]
e.Holy Iron [Magical (offensive); Blessed; Repels Monstrosities; Repels Witches; Repels Fay; Repels Daemons; Burns Monstrosities; Burns Daemons; Only Wieldable By People of Faith]

>>68013
I looked it up on Wikipedia and it listed two kinds, the African kidn that stores kinetic energy but releases it explosively if the molecular bonds are broken, and the antarctic variety which destroys the molecular bonds of any metal...

Seems like it would be interesting to get your hands on both. Sounds fuckin awesome, actually.

I'm skipping lead and tin groups and tossing the basic metals in here, don't feel like finding Jovial and Saturnine metals atm. Only one spare one in the tin group here.
a.Tin [Acoustic; Tarnish; Jovial]
b.Lightning (Metal) [Acoustic; Charge; Sharp; Magic (offensive); Explosively Volatile; Jovial]
c.Lead [Very Heavy; Soft; Tarnish (high factour); Saturnine; Toxic; Radiation-Safe (blocks radiation and magic to an high degree)]

This is some great stuff Green. I'd have no clue that you've never even played D&D or Warhammer or any of the other common Tabletop games if you hadn't said so. You must be one HELL of a voracious gamer.

Okay >Musce>Tech>Magic>Muscle is our combat bias until proven otherwise (lookin' at you mage.)

So to that end lets look at our characters. We have Ozz the Knight of Hope and Byron Ranger of Void. Ozz has a fondness for cape comics, and postapocolyptia. Byron has a hardon for Sentai/tokusatsu and Gadgets.

So For each character you made you'd have to decide a rough end goal for their look.

I know for a Fact that Ozz will be one of the God Tier Players in his session, being a Marvelite he'll have a fondness for doctor doom so he'll wear his dream-swag over a suit of powered armor.

Byron however isn't destined for god-hood, just a fuckton of gadgets with a heavy Sentai/Capcomics appeal.

Once you have a basic concept, and your kids obsessions in mind it becomes time to make items.

Choo choo motherfucker.

VIII:POWDER
a.Sand [Powder (assume that the rest of this group has this trait); Blinding; Chaff (scatters light and radar); Itchy]
b.Aluminium Dust [Chaff; Blinding]
c.Green Vitriol [Solvent (medium factour), Caustic, Toxic, Sulphuric]
d.Salt [Blessed; Repels Monstrosities; Repels Daemons; Edible; Medicinal; Toxic; Brittle; Soluble (high factour)]
e.Sugar [Edible; Sweet; Brittle; Sticky]
f.Sawdust [Flammable; Light]
g.Rust [Toxic; Pigment]
h.Black Powder [Explosively Volatile; Flammable; Toxic]
And so on, so many fucking powders that could take all night. Obviously powders are more important when they are a component of explosives or firearms, or used for food or as a resource; Depending on DM most of them would probably be (mostly) trivial.

>>68015
Oh hell yeah brah, when you absolutely, positively have to kill every motherfucker in the room you bring vibranium to the fight. This is the sort of metal that you go up against Denizens or spend months worth of stable timeloops just to get enough material to make a single item.

Can't Stop the Alchemic Freight Train

Anyways...

I bring up Byron because we've covered basic stuff like weapons and outfits. But Byron was raised on a steady diet of "HUT-SIIIYAH!" and "SUUUUPIADA MAN!" So he does not give a single fuck about sensible approaches to item making therefore he's got...

[Sentai Outfit]: Cosplay outfit, fairly Standard Toku apparel. allows for freedom of movement, surpisingly warm considering how tight fitting it is.

[FriendShip Dusters] I will befriend the SHIT out of you. Chrome plated knuckle dusters. nothing special about these at the moment.

Now we move on to Gadgets, Lets Say Byron is sick of having to climb ladders in the planetoid bases. So he goes over to the Alchemetizer--->

>>68018
Okay Byron's all like "I need a gun bro!" and Ozz is all like "Here take this, It's dangerous to go alone!" and sends him the code for his [22. Pipsqueek.] Byron takes this, finds some glue, and gets ahold of a fishing rod of all things. He throws these motherfuckers into the Alchemtizer, or their codes anyway...



and gets...



[SportCo Grapple Line] a Grapple Gun which has the [Climbing] tag, which aids its users in all thing climbing. The [SportCo GrappleLine] Uses a Modular Design, you can put a Spike, Adhesive Grip, or Magnetic Grapple to allow you to jet around in mutherfuckin style! Also it hurts like fuck to get shot in the face with this.

But Grapple Guns aren't all Byron needs, afterall his new "Land" is populated with some nasty stuff so he gets a Grist Donation from his bro and goes to work.

Okay so Byron needs more than just Knuckle Dusters. After a great deal of Code Exchanging and Alchemetizer fiddling Ozz and Byron find a weapon that they can make with their available Grist the [Freedom Knuckles] produced by combinging an american flag, a light bulb, and an electric generator (the codes anyway) The [Freedom Knuckles] put on an electric Light show as they help you "befriend" a new person.

[Freedom Knuckles]: has the tags [Unarmed] and [Electric] and [Lightshow] They do electric damage and produce a dazzling blast of red, white, and blue light with each attack.

Now why would Byron make a Grapple Gun and a pair of Low Tier Flashy Gauntlets?

Simple, attach adhesive grip to [SportCo GrappleGun] and then Equip [Freedom Knuckles] Attach your grapple pad to an enemy and reel him, or yourself in for a mechanically assisted smack to the face!

making items isn't just about creating kick ass weapons or tagging on beneficiary effects, its avbout producing synergystic combinations of gear.

>>68016
Without going too much into my life, the last couple of years all I've really done is write, study mythology and religion and play videogames, with some refrains for the ladies. Bitches love tall writers, especially unstable ones. I've also been lurking /tg/ for about a year, for what it's worth.

Roommate got home, and now time for miscellaneous solids.
IX: MISCELLANEOUS SOLIDS FUCK YEAH
a.Glass [Sharp; Brittle; Transparent; Lustrous]
b.Amber [Dull; Hard; Light; Translucent; Magical (general- Life and Time)]
c.Wood
-Oak [traits]
-Ebony
-Maple
-Various other kinds of woods and their traits
d.Obsidian [properties of glass, sans brittle]
e.Granite [why did I decide to do this traits thing first, I'm only listing special ones (like silver vs monstrosities) from here on]
f.Adamant [Hardest Material; Crystalline]
g.Diamond [Second-Hardest Material; Indomitable (carried on a person, it grants a "free life" upon "death," at the expense of the Diamond); Valuable (very high factour)]
h.Bone
i.Horn
j.Plastic [Resistant to Magic]
k.Concrete
l.Quartz [Magical (general)]
m.Emerald [Confers Beauty (+1 to charisma-esque rolls)]
n.Amethyst [Detect Poison; Destroy Poison]
o.Wow this is a lot easier and more fun. Fuck.

Interesting, that certainly explains a whole hell of a lot. Medievil alcemy was a science in and of itself and it looks like you've got a pretty good handle on this stuff.

also /tg/ rocks pretty hard fuckin core. I hang out there because the attitude (wuithout a hitler mod in place is) tends to be "How cool is your idea? Okay that sucks, lets make it cooler."

and yeah, the fun really sets in once you make it past the tedious shit. Imma stat up Ozz's starting weapons, armor, and gadgets now, then I'll work on byron.

Keep it up dude, once this goes in the book we can expand on it all. Crunch for the Crunch god! Fluff for the Fluff throne!

[Shootin' Duds] A t-shirt, a pair of jeans, a belt with pouches for ammo, a holster for a pistol, and a wide brimmed hat.

[22. Pipsqueek] Your average 22. Pistol, Semi-Auto, clip fed, 10 shots per clip, Ozz uses the Tacticool expanded 25 bullet rounds that his uncle bubba bought him for Christmas, Comrade Ivanakov does not approve.

[Pipboy 3000 Replica] Probably Ozz's most expensive possession, one part mail order contest, one part homebrewed technology this Pipboy does everything a fictional pipboy does, it even has a 2 way radio, and a gieger counter! Basically a computer to run {Pester chum off of. 2 way radio is also useful for communication as its microphone is compatable with voice chat.

Yes real pipboys don't exist, but I think we passed up that limitation a long fuckin' time ago.

anyway Byron Stats time gimme asecond.

I realised liquids don't make much sense, I'll do a list of all the Grist types I can think of then pastebin it + the material list thus far with some paring down and add whatever I can think of without a comprehensive list of every material's tiniest traits for easy use later on.

Das run-on.

Name: Byron

Title: Ranger of Void

Land: None, glitched Session, currently running around the Planetoid ring in the Incipisphere.

Mind: 2 [Passionate]
Body: 5
Finesse: 3 [Acrobatic]

[FALCON PAWNCH!] GOD DAMN but does byron know how to punch. Gets a bonus to punching things.

[Toku Freak] From Power Rangers to Guyver to Battle Fever J Byron has an obsession with Sentai, and it shows.

[Lucky!] Byron is lucky, and as such, gains a luck bonus to all rolls. (GM fiat as to how high this goes.]

[It works, check that out.] Byron is not a tech head, or a computer geek, regardless machines will work for him when they'll work for no one else. Bonus to mechanical checks.

[Performance] Maybe it's a speech, or maybe its sweet pose, but Byron knows how to be impressive.

[What could go wrong?] Byron's plans are typically convoluted and crazy, they also work a surprisngly large portion of the time. Minor bonus to complex plans.

[So what does this do?] Byron's a curious guy, he wants to know the aswer dammit!

Strife Specibus: FistKind

Moon: Prospit

Mythos Trait (custom Stat)

Razzle Dazzle

1x: Do something showy.

3x: Do something complex for a payoff.

10x: Do something that's absoluetly, undisputably amazing.

3 Plot Points.

I think that about covers it for old byron, feel free to point out anything I've forgotten.

I'll work on more character development style shit tomorrow, anyway here's the list I've made as of now. http://pastebin.com/QFyKFj2Q

Finally tired again, off to bed. Later AAC.

>>68029
Night Brah, I'mma take a bath, pontificate on character dynamics and then go to sleep.

Alright, paying attention? Good.

Now one of the things that's so important in homestuck, and by extension, Sburb is the art of character dynamic. Hell look at the wierd ass troll romance chart, that's a crude fuckin' breakdown of character dynamics right fuckin' there yo.

But I just wanna lay down some heavy stuff right here.

Ozz's character arc involves overcoming his badluck, and learning that he shouldn't just try to get through the day, one day at a time. He should try to be absolutely amazing. He leanrs this by doing his quest on his assigned planet and learning that yeah, he is kind of cool when you think about it.

Byron meanwhile is Ozz's Polar oppisite, Ozz is poor, Byron is mildly affluent, Ozz is unlucky, Byron is lucky, Ozz is practical, Byron...not so much.

Ozz gets his own land, Byron gets dumped inside the one location that has just about every imaginable secret you could ask for, oh, and its swamped with high level enemies who will always be two or three steps ahead of Byron's power level.

Remembe Sburb is about growing as a person, you know what helps a person grow up? Fuckin' irony man, that shit be all nutritious for your spirit and stuff yo.

So basically the guy who considers getting a job done with no major mistakes in a process "excellence" is taught to be fucking marvelous all day every day.

Sburb meanwhile drops Byron out of the normal process completely and gives him access to the secret knowledge, all of it. But if he wants to survive he has to think, and plan carefully. Luck's only gonna take him so far.

Byron needs to learn to be practical. 3deep5u right? Anyway what with not having a land Byron's only access to the godtier will be his dreamself's quest bed on prospit. But that's mostly irrelevent to this, just wnated to point that out for all future "I has no land of my own" characters.

So we got the whole "ain't that ironic?!" thing down, lets move onto the important shit.

So basicallyOzz and Byron all about the good feels, all of the good feels. All of them. This is a major fuckin' bromance yo. Yeah, yeah I know. there must be some tension in this relationship right? No, not really. There's a reason for that.

Ozz and Byron are 15. 2 of their other teammates are 14 and the last one is 13. They're the motherfuckin' team parents. Ozz is the upclose team dad, and Byron's the faraway moral support penpal dad.

but with Byron and Ozz producing so much good feels...well everyone else has to have a harder time of it respectively. the other 3 human kids are derse dreamers and 2 make use of passive Classes. I'll talk about them later.

anyway when your players are making characters try to consider how they interact, who does what, and why. Ozz is the sober, comforting team parent. Always there to lend a hand and hear a grievance. Bron's the driving, passionate, team parent he wants you to go out there and Do That Thing. Danger be damned, his is not a shoulder to cry on.

So there you have it, the team dads of the human team. Tommorrow I'll work on...whatever we're working on... and stat up my first Derse Dreamer, and first passive player.

Goodnight Everybody, I doubt you miss my multiposting.

what

What started as a pen and paper recreation of Sburb seems to have been turned into the world's greatest two man circlejerk.

have you guys ever heard of pastebin

or google docs

or chat rooms

because this wasn't all thought out and they wanted opinions on what they had so far.
but no one is interested.

>>68041
to be fair, +4 is kind of terrible for feedback because its cripplingly slow.

>>68039
No, what do these strange words mean?

>>68038
Pretty sure that's just gay sex.

>>68042

A sentence that could've ended after the eighth word.

yo the base idea of this thread is cool and all but if you two use this as a platform to post your thinly veiled fanfic for 40 posts today im nuking this thread from orbit.

To be fair, I think they just got really excited that there's a thread that won't drop off the board in a couple days.

Long story short, AAC likes to catalog his own hypothetical session as we go along. I think it's nice so we have a way of keeping track of how mechanic X would affect point Y within what seems to be a session created from a disk that was introduced to a power sander at some point. Green's here (I think) to try and break the game, letting us know the the strong combos are and what the weak ones are. And make us a cool material list, it seems.

I've been hammering out a style of GM-less play that involves each player GMing for another in a Server Host-Player chain. The player's server host sets the scene for the player and the player works towards the goal for the scene. Then the player part of the chain then becomes the GM for the next player. It' look a little like this, really:

Player 1 GMs for Player 2 who GMs for Player 3 who GMs for Player 1.

When the loop completes and player one finishes their scene, the loop continues. Scenes would likely be mostly concurrent, so all the player's actions are happening somewhat at once with Pesterchum chatter in between.

tl,dr: Everyone is GM, Server-Player chain is GM-Player chain, AAC and Green are easily excited.

>>68046

i hope this project pans out! genuinely, it would be a really neat thing to do with a group of friends.

Once we get the Fraymotif charts hammered out, grist work done, and some concrete alchemization modifiers, I think we'll be quite ready for a round of playtesting.

In my own defense, I run from a PS3 because my computer is dead, and PS3s have an arbitrary post limit. So to get even a character sheet posted on here or 4chan I'd have to post twice. As a consequence of this I can't modify paste bin or googledoc files or do anything that involves a 200+ wordcount. SO yeah...

Basically I'm trying to record a hypothetical "Glitched as hell" session, like Mage Said, introduced to a belt sander at one point.

Green seems to have made of a hobby of power gaming, but he's not a cunt about it, if told to stop he stops.

So we've got Alchemtization, What we need to do, I think Is develop a basic chart for weapon types, outfit types, Misc Item types, damage types, damage resistance types, and a rough example of everything you could want to attach to an item.

Same for fraymoifs and anything involving customization, some crunchy rules, and a table of stuff to choose from.

Apologies for any Rustled Jimmies, I have to go shopping, be back in a few hours.

Idea Smithing:
Tiers have basic costs, 10 for tier 1 (Initial alchemization), 100 for tier 2, 1,000 for tier 3, all the way up to 10,000,000,000 for lofty tier 10 items.

Depending on what you're making and how you're making, you have a multiplier. && combinations have a x1.0 modifier. || combos have a x0.75 modifier, as it's cheaper to change around either the form or the function, but adding more functions is expensive.

Weapons have a cost modifier of x1.0, clothing and armor x0.75, and general gizmos and gadgets x0.50. A gizmo or gadget is something that isn't a weapon, but has cool uses, sort of like the disco-pimp cane Jack has or Byron's SportCo grapple gun thing.

You do the math for the && or || part first, getting a subtotal, and then do the math for the item's intended use next for the subsubtotal with possibly a little more math for some modifiers that should be cooked up soon.

Going back to the "alchemize a comic book for cool powers early on" example, I jabbered about intent and meaning. If you alchemize a t-shirt with a comic book (Say Thor for example), you get cool brand-name merch for the simple cost of a tier one item. But, if you're going for Thor's lightning, flight, and Asgardian powers, you're adding three (possibly more) tags to the shirt, jacking up its Tier from 1 all the way up to 4 or higher, making uber powerful form more expensive.

>>68048
Why would you do this Bee?

>>68055
Because she hates you anon. She hates you and wants you, personally you, to suffer.

oh wait byron doesn't have a guardian on his sheet....plot point!

Okay cool Mage, that seems pretty solid. for those of us who are slogging through homestuck in the attempt to glean useful stuff for the RPG files, and can't be fucked to dig through the archives for the alchemetization or for those of us just confused &&=And and will give an item additional abilities based on what's being Alchemetized. II=Or and will change the form OR the function of an item. I.E. The Suction Gun that whatshisname could have made instead of the [Pointed-Question] Thats the gist of it right?

Okay we have basic mechanics down, mind if I lay down a list of Tags?

I was thinking of just using [Ranged] and [Melee] for weapons...

Okay for weapons lets start up with some examples of wierd special crap. You can after all take multiple strife specibus's.

[Melee] This is fairly obvious a weapon meant for close up action.
[Cutting] another fairly obvious tag, this weapon does slashing damage.
[Drubbing] What...? I like the word. You can use [Bludgeioning] or [Crushing] if you prefer for weapons like baseball bats or lead pipes.

Okay We've got a character...Jack was it? Could' be wrong. Anyway Mage of mind has a Character who has BatKind assigned to his Strife Specibus. Well lets say Ole Jack gets a bucket of Razorblades and Alchemetizes it with a baseball bat.

Your result will be a baseball bat covered in razor blade. Fairly low tier but it does do both cutting and crucshing damage, and seriously...It's kind of terrifying. So the [Splatter-Bat] would look like this when assigned tags.

Tier1
1d6+3 damage
[Cutting]
[Drubbing]

Oh but wait? What if we have some special grist on hand? Let's examine the effects of special materials.

Alright, lets say when making the [Splatter-Bat] we have some Holy Iron on hand. Holy Iron repels just about... well most evil entities. "But AAC that's OP as FUCK! you can't let something like that just fall into the laps of PCs." You, my hypothetical Anon, are right. We can't. Good thing Holy Iron has a Caveat.

>Blessed; Repels Monstrosities; Repels Witches; Repels Fay; Repels Daemons; Burns Monstrosities; Burns Daemons; Only Wieldable By People of Faith
>Only Wieldable by a person of Faith.
>A person of Faith.
>Faith

From this we come to the conclusion that elements and materials exist that correspond to each of the basic class types, spell casters, technologists, bards, and in this case, Men and Women of Faith. So lets look at the [Splatter Bat] with this in mind.

[Splatter-Bat]
1d6+3
[Cutting]
[Drubbing]
[Holy Iron] gains +1d6 to attack and Damage creatures affected by holy iron.

So when attacking, say for instance, a Daemonic imp, the splatter bat would roll 2d6+3 to attack and damage.
Make sense?

>A baseball bat covered in holy razor blades that can only be wielded by a character who makes of Faith as a part of his powerset.
Yeah that sounds like homestuck.

Wheres that +3 coe from AAC? How great is the dice bonus given by Holy Iron to the [Splatter Bat]?

What could I combine this ginsu knife with to make an equally crazy weapon?

I suppose I was supposed to be listing generic tags... now I'm bogged down in making special weapons... Aw well as long as we get somewhere I guess.

Okay lets say you have an axe. Axes are great for cutting things not so much for skewering them. You take a [Fireman's Axe] and combine it with [Cook's Knife] and you get a [Cook's Axe] which is shaped like a Fireman's axe but it has a Cook's knife blade jutting out of the top of the axehead like a spearpoint.

Now this lets yyou attack one of two ways with your new weapon. that's not a major development but for simplicity's sake lets say that all weapons that do more than one type of generic damage [cutting], [drubbing] or [stabbing] gain a +3 damage bonus. We didn't have any special Grist on hand when we made [Cook's Axe] so It's just a generic combo weapon and has no major special qualities.

[Cook's Axe]
1d6+3 damage
[Melee]
[Cutting]
[Stabbing]

Now that that's done...

The bonus given by Holy Iron to any weapon is dependent on its tier.

Cont-->

I used 1d6 as an example with the splatterbat as a bonus for it's holy iron but a flat +3 bonus for any thing added to a tier 1 weapon is probably more sensible. Well now that that's done I'll get off my ass and start posting generic Weapon tags...

Well, attacks and damage are handled by contested dice pools, with the net successes from the attacker's roll doing damage to your Health Vial. So that [Holy Iron] tag would add 2d6 to the attack roll.

Speaking of materials, we should probably order up the list into five tiers, each one being worth an amount of grist.

Tier one items are worth 1, tier 2 worth 10, tier 3 worth 100, tier 4 worth 1,000, and tier 5 worth 10,000. A recipe doesn't call for things that the item is made out of. Instead you have to supply some of your personal materials (such as the Gypsum units for Kyle) and, depending, an amount of generic build grist like steel. If someone else hands you the recipe via captcha code, you'd need some of their special grist (Dawn's mercury units since she supplied the needles in the Point Question example). Some tiers of alchemized items would require certain tiers of materials, at the least, as well.

Adding on the properties of the holy iron would be part of the Alchemization process, rather than it getting that because it was an ingredient.

Okay Generic Weapon tag time! This is for tags that can be applied to any weapon, [Melee] or [Ranged].

[Cutting]
[Drubbing]
[Stabbing]
All of these are likely if you... I dunno make a gun that shoots billiard balls or a knife gun or something. Not to mention basic melee weapons.

[Incendiery] fire
[Electric] lightning
[Cryogenic] ice
[Hydro] water
[Photonic] Light
[Darkmatter] place holder tillI find a btter name for shadow
[Floral] For...I dunno a weapon with rose thorns.
[Poisoned] self explanatory
[Sonic] Sound weapon
[Electromagnetic] for EMPs or genuinely magnetic weapons.
[Explosive] for missiles and stuff.
[Channeling] makes the use of one's powers easier also a good tag for outfits or misc stuff.
[Polymorphing] This is for weeapons that can transform into other objects. Like a chainsaw from a ring or something. Good for outfits and gadgets too.
[Intelligent] For the production of a self aware item
[Multiuse] for an item that can transform. A gun that turns into a sword for instance.

Okay, good to know Mage! thanks for the input. We'll just assume cool effetcs listed in the Grist Table are Alchemization effects and add those on as effects. Now we just need to arrange the items into a tier...

So what do you think switching Custom Character Stats for "Mythos Trait"? my thought is the kids are building their own myth and the "Mythos Trait" is their primary heroic quality, Robin hood stole from the rich to give to the poor so his primary trait was a wierd sort of justice.

Anyway, whatcha think of the Damage bonus rule? adding [cutting] to a [drubbing] weapon gives aflat +3 bonus to any damage done with it. We can just toss that idea in the gutter if you don't like it.

>>68046
Query:
In this chain, would it not be somewhat more difficult to ensure there isn't a bad GM? It is an interesting idea to me beyond the Sburb nuances in that each player both gets to play and GM each game.

>>68060
Monstrosities incidentally doesn't refer to imps and ogres and the such, it refers to vampires (or rainbow drinkers), werewolves, cursed individuals an polymorphs. Being a witch and half-dog, jade wouldn't be able to go within ten parsecs of that shit. Kanaya and whats-her-face, the Beta session version of Kanaya's ancestor, would also have issues.

>>68067
Definetly worth noting. There's a prototyping accident in my human kid's session. For awhile I was like "That's so gay. I'll just wind up with jack." Then it occured to me... "What if one of the kids combined his sprite with a sentinel? What if the white king began modifying monsters with magitech and spells and all sorts of crazy stuff like that to make custom designed Kid-Killing Murder Machines?"

So in that session the King is Documenting the weaknesses of the kids and building robots and cyborgs to kill them. I figure one of the first things he'll do is kill the black king and queen and put their rings under lock and key.

So holy iron effects witches, vampires, and shapeshifters along with all the other stuff. Got anymore class psecific cool stuff green?

>>68064
http://pastebin.com/c3LWgTfb
better?

>>68066
Already updated the thing to mythos trait. I might just change over the Personal Points to Mythos Points, just for that classic MP designation which would work well with the old school RPG basis.

Damage types don't really seem to jive with this, as does the rock paper scissors thing. At least, it doesn't to me, anyway.

>>68067
This is a worry, really. You can't ensure that a good player is going to be a good GM. I suppose you could do it with a classic GM set-up, each player has a scene and them and the GM go back and forth.

>>68070
Hee hee.

It does seem like a lot of the traits (like most of my tags, which were admittedly partially to explain some not-so-well-known things about various materials at first) are redundant with common sense. However, perhaps they could interact with the ENVIRONMENT as opposed to the enemy itself? For example, a light-based weapon could shoot around corners if there's convenient prisms or mirrors nearby, a rubber weapon would bounce (potentially hitting the user, and also able to shoot around corners), an electrical weapon could electrify metal beams or pools of liquid and so on.

>>68069
Chart looks great! I'm going to update the Google docs thing sometime tonight with the alchemization and grist work that's been going on.

>>68069
Chart looks great! I'm going to update the Google docs thing sometime tonight with the alchemization and grist work that's been going on.

>>68070
Sool, one of my ideas got used. Okay we throw out the traits and stuff, unles they...you know need to be used for plot stuff. We throw out the Rock Paper scissors, 'cause. Well its silly. In the meantime lets try and expand on item tags, Alchemization seems t work but, well I'm math illterate and Decimal points seem to be rather pointlessly complicated, No offense. Can we try and keep the mathematical costs siple? You know as well as I do that hussy pulled pretty much every single equipment cost out of his ass.

Okay obviously We'll need to include stuff like Green's enviromental attacks, coating a floor with ice and then running electricity through it to melt it, and damage an enemy is very much an Old School RPG tactic.

In the meantime I'll try for a better tags list... We can pontificate on each tags meaning after I get it done.

Cool names are a big part of Sburb, and silly names too, but for simplicities sake I'll just list ideas and we can replace names with cool names as is required.

[Light] [Dark] [Fire] [Ice] [Electric] [Plant] [Wood] [Rubber] [Metal] [Plastic] [Ceramic] [Glass] [Stone] [Dust] [Wind] [Water] [Liquid] [Earth] [Magic] [Science] [Holy] [Unholy] [Arcane]

So far this is all I can think of, obviously we'll need to screw with names and come up with Damage rules. What if we had a gun that fired enchanted dust that put people to sleep for instance? Or one that fires rubber bouncy balls, 50 balls a second at mach 10, Or a sowrd that returns to its user's hand after being thrown.

As far as weapons rules are concerned we have a lot of ground to cover.

To be frank I think we need a stable equipment set before we can work on FrayMotifs...

>>68075
And [sonic].

Also, what of some of the more nuanced or... "unique" specibi? Jokerkind should probably be excluded or limited to lategame for bards, because even in a game where becoming OP is a given that's OP. But looking, for example, at needlekind, dicekind, that sort of thing, as well as 1/2[weapon]kind and possible original types (in a Sburb freeform that never got off the ground that a friend talked me into my character had 1/2mirrorkind and pendulumkind in her portfolio), before the game is started these are going to be piss weak- We're not going to have people running around with Fluorite Octets in the beginning, that's a lategame weapon Vriska got as part of her backstory.

So, would damage be done by tossing/shooting dice at people? At what point/how would this turn into the dice possessing some inherent power of their own, beyond being small hardish objects? In the case of 1/2mirrorkind, y character's preferred specibus, anything reflective that she could break could be used, and at first she mostly used broken mirrors as knives and would have later used some more magical properties of mirrors, so it's sort of like that, except mirrors are sharp.

>Gun that fires bouncy balls
>50 balls a second at the speed of mach ten
...At a 7 second burst that'd be around 350 bouncy balls travelling at mach 10. They'd hit with enough force to shatter bone. You're fucking crazy AAC. In a good way.

How about we have an "Anathematical Material" Rule, You choose from a dice table where we list off like.... a bunch of monster types that would appear in Sburb, no reason to limit ourselves to imps and stuff, remember that giant centipede dingus in HiveBent?

Anyway we list off vampire, shapeshifter, angel, mage, robot, etc. etc. and if your item cause spells to backfire or machines to malfunction tough cookie, you either need to make a new one or put it in a special containment unit when your Magitek-Cyborg buddy comes around.

>>68076
yeah I forgot [Sonic]... Honestly that just seems like a general chart table, we need to pick those apart and apply them and their effects to armor and stuff via examples... I figure [Arcane] is more about pointlessly complex equipment rather than anything occult. as for [Occult] I think we covered that with [Magic], [Holy], and [Unholy]

yeah Vriska got some wierd weapons, and NeedleKind is a bit out there. I guess it's something you'd discuss with your DM. Let's say for instance you have [Occultist] in your character background, it's mostly useless except that you state you can use mirrors to do magic stuff. and you have an ancient family heirloom that can do that can unleash bad JuJu on an enemy.

I'd say, personally that you should set stuff like that up in your background and take advantage of the customization options. Look at Ozz I made him unlucky and then constructed a dungeon that would make his curse even worse while he inside of it.

continues--->

>>68078
So in the dungeon his normal -2 roll to... any kind of success period becomes -4.

But the dungeons magic is such that it twists anything it touches, slowly turning blessings into curses, and curses into blessings.

Now your normal character leaves with a -2 debuff on sucess, but that can be removed with a small ritual or potion or whatever from your sessions healer.

Ozz on the other hand gets a [Black Blessing] His inherited family curse becomes a twisted blessing, granting him +2 to all success rolls.

In short if you want a wierd weapon spend 1 Mythos Point on some wierd background trait that makes it feasable to use that dingus as a weapon. I.E. [Mirror Occultist] or whatever. I doubt anyone will mind.

Also "Anathematical; Equipment" rule seems cool, and the whole "Glitchy weapon screws with allies as well as enemies" thing seems fitting with our theme of "Sburb is glitchy" We can always make it an optional rule. Follow...don't follow...

>>68078
Speaking of Juju, where I used it it was referring to luck, though I think that's fairly obvious- Jujus in Sburb are non-alchemitable or technically non-alchemitable items that can only exist in one place at once on the "real" timeline and have special powers. They're the unique, non-classified weapons of Homestuck, like Lil Cal.

On that note, Bad Juju I imagine could affect the person using the material, but could also be used as a weapon feature- It could give your opponent bad luck. Good Juju would be the opposite, less of a warrior feature and more of a cleric feature, only both regard luck (which has shown to be a real stat in Sburb, and would probably manifest in dice rolls).

I think at this point we're looking at a very modular game, where most features are "leave it to a dice roll, or the GM decides, or the player decides and other players approve" and most rules are "follow if it seems right." Not sure if that's a good or bad thing, just pointing out that it's a developing trend.

If hussy gets that kickstarter off the ground (and judging from the fucking retarded level of funding he's recieving) we'll have more to work with in terms of what is, and isn't possible. But at the moment we know so little about what is, and isn't possible in Sburb that there's no reason to exclude anything that won't screw up a gaming session without reason.

Now lets talk items.

In my Session, Prospit and Derse have switched Places, Prospit is inhabited by Tyrranical Jerks and Derse are the Plucky rebels. They're at war and Derse is losing.

In most other sessions though, the reverse is true. So we have vaguely humanoid aliens with white and black skin, with checkerboard marks on their wrists. Angels and Demons seem to be a thing I think it's more interesting is we take the "Look an me and Do Not be afraid" line from the bible at its word and assume that angels and demons are alien and horrifying. except for the ones who deal with other species a whole lot, in which case they'd Pull a Galactus. (wiki it

half my post seems to have disappeared... whatever enough of it is there. For the record galactus appears in a different form for every race that views him , for humans, big dude, funny hat, for Beta Ray Bill's people, giant octopus that hapopens to be their god of destruction. etc. etc. So angels that interact with humans, trolls. and other aliens would assume forms that their subject is comfortable with. anyway.

Sburb's whole deal, before some usurper like jack shows up, is that you defeat the armies of Derse, and save yourself from the Black King, you do this by gaining power, following your quest and either aiding the Armies of Prospit, or overcoming the Armies of Derse after they've crushed prospit.

So what I'm saying here is... We need to figure out what the armies of Derse and Prospit look like along with everything else.

Lets figure out some items that would be on hand, since to stop Derse you're probably gonna have to curbstomp a lot of Sturmtruppen.

>>68075
Where's that big ol' chart of expanded rock paper scissor moves when you need it? I guess environmental and other elemental tags could function similarly to Pokemon, with just a cross reference chart of some sort to see what get an advantage (+2 dice) over another and what it's disadvantaged (-2 dice) against as an optional thing.

Anathematical weapons do have a nice ring to them, being otherwise normal items until you enter the Medium and things start to get weird.

Some others have helped me out with a few nifty item tags: [Polymorphical] which lets an item have two form tags, allowing you to switch between them. It can only be used with && combinations and allows to switch between both forms, with a 10% increase in price. [Duedly] which if you would deal minimum damage with a weapon, you do 2, rather than 1 (20% increase).

>>68083
okay cool [Polymorphical] is a great tag for a transforming item, precisely what I wanted for a ring-to-chansaw style weapon. Or gun-to-sword etc etc. [Duedly] is another great one stat wise and [Anathematical] is now in. We just need to figure out what Derse and Prospit look like on the battle field before we have an Anathema chart.
How about [Triplesome] for a minmum of 3 damage and a 30% increase on weapon price going on and on till you reach a maximum of 10 minimal damage?

Next up we have to court some staus effects so we can make items for that kind of thing. I'm thinking [Sleep], where you slumber with Mind saves to wake up until you get attacked or until you hit your Mind Save. [Poison] None of this Main stat gets lowered BS, nuhuh. We go old school. Poison eats up HP until you're conked out, won't kill yah but it makes dyin' easier. Body Rolls to defeat the poison.

Continues --->

Now [Confusion] I like this one. Mind roll to throw off and resist. Now what we do here is build up a table of allies, attack enemy or ally, look around, dance...whatever . The important part is you can either roll to break confusion, or you can roll to perfom an action on the chart, Once you roll for an action on the chart you can reroll up to a maximum of 2 times (meaning you'd roll 3 times) you absolutely HAVE to perform the action you get on the third roll. TL;DR you can either roll to perform an action on the [Consfusion] Chart, or you can roll to resist confusion. If you fail your confusion roll you can only roll once on the confusion chart and then you have to perform that action.

[Cursed] fairly standard, -2 to a specific subset of rolls, mind to resist, can be removed by a light alligned player, or a dark player that can do buffs. but you have to get a potion or blesing or whatever to throw this off.

I got more but Imma wait for feedback on confusion...

>>68086
Confusion seems a little complicated. We've got a Keep It Simple thing going on. Something like Mind to resist, on a three round duration. Pass it, and you're free. Failure and you roll on the chart. No re-rolls.

Additional Ability: [Magic] items can be used for a second item-based re-roll within a game session. 50% increase in price.

>>68087
Okay cool, Mind To resist, 3 round duration, failure incurrs a roll on the chart. Works for me. Moving onto other stuff. Also I like that Magic tag descrip works well enough for me. 1 reroll for a tier 1 magic item, with an increase in rerolls equivilent to the number of tiers that the item is on. a tier 2 [Magic] item for instance would get you 2 item based rerolls and have a 100% price increase.

[Bound] Way I figure it psionics shouldn't be out of bounds for humans. and REAL magic should come from some sort of cosmic source, like an artifact or entity. anyway this stat binds your fraymotifs, magic, psionics and other abilities. Mind to resist, can only be removed via an item or a passive players recovery abilities.

[Blind/Deaf/Scentless] we've got blind characters in homestuck, some use smell and hearing to get around, and of course normal people would be hobbled if they couldn't see. you use Body to resist this.

continues --->

>>68091
to make a long post short, you'd get a -4 penalty to...everything. there'd be a 3 round duration and the tag woyuld be either [Blind] [Deaf] or [Scentless] whichever would screw with the character in question more.

I don;t think we need anymore status effects, what about you?

If we don;t can we talke about healing items and how they could be implemented?

I want my tier ten healing item for Ozz to be a lunch box and sippee cup made from cosmic cube material.

>>68092
Yeah, those look pretty good for status effects. As far as healing items go, players pick up Vitality Gel dropped by enemies when they die, little blue cubes of sweet, sweet healing.

>>68094
That makes perfect sense. I was hoping on having a sippee cup of infinitely restoring health potion... Well a big-glug made of cosmic cube that can constantly replenish itself with healing goop sounds like an even better idea.

Okay we got the status effects down. Players can use these, so can enemies and we can expand on that later. From the looks of things we have a pretty solid set of basic tags for weapons, armor and everything else. So guess we should probably work on our fraymotifs.

As I recall it we were working on charts, the first one we had was a conditions chart. Then we decided we were going to have a chart for each of the aspects we're going to use... at 24 basic charts, not counting splat books or later player expansions... well we have a lot of ahead of us.

Oh and why don't we settled Echeladders once and for all since that seems like it'd be fairly quick. I was thinking of setting Echeladder max at 12.
Since titles were so personalised in homestuck we'll let players name the rungs,

>>68081
I have the very, very strong suspicion it will be a fucking shitty terrible game, and possibly very limited and linear. This is judging from what little material there is on it and also my gut. Basically, it feels like a way to get money, then get more money later on, based on a very strong branding- Look what we did to Newgrounds when [S] Cascade hit. As far as quality goes, the latest walkaround's bad soundtrack, mediocre spriting and animation and... High system requirements (???) may be influencing my opinion of what that hussy is actually capable of/willing to do/can get support on.

>>68082
Gaiman's Morpheus also does that. Just an example I am more familiar with.

On the topic of stats and these new conditions, how would luck manifest? A normally under-the-table stat that can be boosted by Light players, I'm guessing, but as far as actual implementation, I was thinking something like...

On a roll, you roll the dice, then select a number of dice up to your luck modifier to "keep," like in Yahtzee. Then you re-roll the rest of the dice. The luck modifier would presumably have an arbitrary (and small) limit, though perhaps it could be temporarily boosted by some means (a la Vriska's luck stealing capabilities).

>>68098
fuck yeah! Gaiman fan.

What I'm thinking we should do with the Angels and Demons is turn them into sort of Curators for the Medium, and that their job is to totally ignore the kids, Prospiters and Dersites and just keep the world turning. Angels take care of the nuturing elements, Demons take care of the negative elements, since Demons got a hair up thier noneuclidian asshole and locked up the angels I figure all the worlds became extremely hostile in terms of wildlife and environmental conditions....maybe that's just my session.

I kinda want to ease up on the consort restrictions and just classify them as "cute, mildly intelligent lifeforms that exist to do the bidding of the session players, personalised to the Hero in question." Look at these modrons! They're totally consort material... Just me? Moving on.

In terms of magic, I feel it should be a real force, but should have a source. Lucifer the Morning Star, Ozz's Denizen is So. Very. Sick. of his role in the grand scheme of things.

Cont--->

Now instead of having Grimdark as a part of our glitch table I think we should have "Apprenticed to a cosmic entity" Magic is real, but in this case "magic" just means access to the raw power of creation. Lucifer is bored, instead of Killing Ozz he teaches him how to channel "The Power Cosmic" through the lens of Hope. Ozz doesn't ascend to the God tier, he's as good as there. Now he's got the raw power of a Fallen Angel and he can use it to heal or destroy as long as it serves his own personal view point of hope.

So yeah, I see the apprenticeship thing as an alternative to the god tier thing, and a viable story hook for why your game is glitched. The Denizen decides that he doesn't like being a Denizen anymore? How could it become clearer that your game has left the rails and it won't be looking back anytime soon?

yes I did steal Lucifer straight from the pages of sandman. No he's still a jerk, he basically gave a 15 year old access to cosmic power that may very well destroy its user because he was bored.

>>68099
Daemons' assholes would be perfectly euclidean, it's the horrorterrors that defy logic. Just saiyan. Also seems like not every session has them, we only saw angels in Eridan's world, correct?

>>68100
>off the rails
Pinkie Pie goes off the rails. (HD)

Basically in Sburb I don't see magic as a thing that "doesn't exist" buit its not something you can access with a book, a pair of knitting needles, and an alchemizer.

Magic is the channeling of forces, so you'll need either occult rituals. Or a patron, Like Angels or Demons, or Scratch, or Horrorterrors, or Lord English or some other unfathomable cosmic diety. It should I think be an alternative to the godtier, a dangerous one that could kill you.

Like say for instance a character class ina videogame. All the classes from the 1st part of the game have been coded properly, but THESE classes, these over here? they haven't been coded properly. There's all sorts of bad things that could happen if you choose one of these glitchy character classes.

Anyway enough of my glittery bullshit.

We have HP and we have Stats. Do we just gain HP, or do we increase our MBF dice pools as we climb our echeladders? How about skills or character traits like [lucky] or [wizard]?

>>68101
Twinkle the Marvel Horse a Fon… Twinkle the marvel horse is my Fan Troll's Lusus.

Anyway Someone mentioned that since Eridan's Aspect was Hope all Hope players should have Angels. It seems like a sensible rule to me, while we're at it we can build every. single/ detail. into this enormous mythc thing... and because Sburb is glitchy... things go off the rails and the Mythic becomes... not so mythic.

That's my headcanon anyway. We can just file it into the box of things only AAC cares about if no one wants to back me on this.

I kinda like the idea of using a glitchy-as-Gog character upgrade to ascend to god level instead of the normal method. But that's just my two boonbucks.

Huh, you know if angels and demons act as curators, then in sessions that don't have 'em we should have Prospitans and Dersers running around doing that, or failing that creatures like scratch and bec keeping the worlds turning.

I also kind of like the notion that half the glitches in the game are caused by Entities like lord english, Scratch and Bec being places they shouldn't be (as far as the game is concerned) and doing things they shouldn't,

So I would totally back gameplay elements driven by apprenticing yourself to dark cosmic entities.

How many wings does Ozz get for effectively recieving the key to hell? You're referencing the story where Lucifer basically says "I'm closing up shop Morpheaus. You get the key to hell." right?

.....I am so apprenticing my fan troll to a bored Demonic Denizen to gain infernal power now.

>>68104
I should have added the mythos point cost for improvement of stats. in that little section. My bad. HP gets bumped up by 1 for every Echeladder rung you climb, as well as giving you a bump up in boondollars and build grist. You climb up a rung when you do something important or relevant to your class. Your first fight against an unfamiliar creature, completing a quest goal, and forging a top tier weapon are all pretty standard Echeladder raising achievements. Completing it means you can qualify for God Tiers provided you have a quest bed near by if either you or your dreamself dies during the session.

Ideally, Apprenticeship would come in three flavors: Horrorterror, Denizen, or Rogue First Guardian. Horrorterrors cause you to go Grimdark, giving you Void-like powers in addition to your own Aspect abilities. Denizens ramp your own Aspect powers up to 10, while adding a unique ability or two of their own. First Guardians tend to add Time powers to your repertoire. First Guardian adoption varies, as some are just smart enough to use their sweet powers to protect their worlds, with 'world' depending from First Guardian to First Guardian, as Jade was the world to Bec and Doc Scratch's world was his master's fiendish plots, rather than Alternia.


But, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Before we get all mired in what ifs and maybes, we should get a viable rules canon going on here. Tags do just fine for describing things, if it has [Magic] something likely has fantastic powers beyond mortal comprehension. A magic mirror is more than just reflective, it can bounce back attacks, curses, and harsh insults, as well as reflect the unbiased truth and look into the soul. Magic knitting needles become wands, instruments for channeling the powers arcane, reknitting the aspects of reality and piercing the veil of Truth.

Land traits-names like Angels, are just an aspect of Hope, with there being other facets. Not all Hope players have Angels or otherworldly beings, but its certainly more common among Heroes of Hope than other aspects.

>>68116
I just wanted a definite yes or no on Apprenticeship. We've got all the flavours we need in first guardian, denizen, and terrorhorror, thus giving us gid tiers for s"too little too late" situations, and sources of time and space powers. We can wrangle that can of worms later.

Level up via tags and stats has been cleared so we know its perfectly possible to start off with [Occultist] and give yourself [Wizard] or whatever tag suits your fancy and attach strife specibi bonuses and what not to that tag.

All a bit conversation heavy but requisite if we want to have ideas to base our Rules Canon on. Come to think of it with Bilious Slick (Or Amphibious Prime as I like to call him) The consorts being amphibians and reptiles makes way more sense now. Whatever.

Okay we've covered weapons and armor as a basic concept, now lets cover vehicles. Gimme a second to examine my notes...

Okay I have a character named Jenna, she's way up in the air at the moment because I'm not certain where were gonna go with rules for a character like her at the moment.

Okay we've seen john do the windy thing with his powers, and we've seen a battleship piloted by Terribly Responsable Captain Tyler. We've even seen startrek style shuttles.

Now Jenna's a big fan of strategy Risk, Civilization Master of Orion, Command and Conquer, Star Craft etc. etc. etc. You get the idea.

Now what if Jenna started building robots, or recruiting consorts to fight for her, and led them in battle in large engagements. at first she'd just alchemize cheap things like armor and weapons for her troops.

But eventually she'd start on powered armor, combat vehicles, airplanes. all that sweet stuff.

Are we going to put in rules to account for stuff like that or should I table this idea for the moment?

>>68119
Vehicles generally don't matter. Sure, you could jack a Dersite battlecrusier and ride that sucker down to the Battlefield, and land it onto a battalion of the little black dudes, but the thing is totaled. Most of the time, characters are going to be on foot, going from portal to portal on their planets, possibly with little things to give them a speed boost, like rocket shoes (pchoooooooo!) or riding the Breeze. This just gives them a quicker way from point A to B.

Mass combat could be handled similarly. You give the unit a Body/Mind/Finesse score with some Stat Tags, with Equipment Tags rounding things out. Then, one simply uses the narrative rolls to see who beats who, with players providing re-roll if they are needed.

Eh. Narrative tool I guess...? Noted for future reference.

Okay we've got Anathematical items, We've been doing things in patterns of six (In my case to reference our dice base) So I think we should have 6 special item types.

So we have [Holy Iron] if we just switch that iron out for <insert material here> we have a lot of room to make things, Like a Belmont outfit for a character who shamelessly mimicks indiana jones, cat woman and other whip wielding fictional characters. The outfit would of course give him rerolls in appropiate situations. (I.E. anywhere sacred assistance would come in handy.)

On the Flipside we obviously need [Unholy] Items, which I think should grant a character an offensive bonus against light type characters (Hope, Light, Life etc.) In my hypothetical session for instance the white king goes nuts and starts collecting items that the kids are weak to and incorporating them into specially designed killbots. So stuff like this would be essential for my campaign.

Continues ---->

Oh wait, that unholy tag as I described it is just an Anathematical item aimed at light.

Maybe we should make [Holy] Items Prospit restricted and grant prospit players rerolls.

and [Unholy] Items would grant the same reroll bonuses but for Derse players.

So we have rerolls and Anathema. Not certain where to go from here... Maybe that's all we need, Rule of three?

I don't see how you can have monsterous horrors in a normal game; creatures like Lord English and Beq are too attached to the kids game that I doubt they'd show up in any other games contnuity. And if they did they wouldn't be the same; it would be a different scratch, a different English and so on.

Where would these cosmic horrors come from?

>>68123
Well the terrorhorrors exist beyond the furthest ring, I honestly just think they're a strange noneuclidian lifeform that possesses PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWER and that dwell in dark places beyond the reach of men, there're probably ones that exist in the dark spaces between galaxies. The ones in the medium are probably opprotuinists who dwell there because there's no good reason not to. (my head canon obviously.)

As for Lord English? He's a cosmic parasite, a bloatfly maggot, a tapeworm, mange on the surface of reality. He's a low-level life form with access to cosmic power, a carrion beast that can twist time and reality. What you see in the kid's session is the terminous of a long circuitous life cycle designed to bring him into existence. Basically Lord English has taken advantage of a series of cosmic "accidents" (which he likely arranged in the ifrst place) to bring himself into existence. It's been stated that paradox space is a strange temporal realm where anything is possible.

Continues --->

So lets make the assumption that HorrorTerrors ar ethe product of some strange noneuclideon evolutionary process and exist in multiple universe because seriously.

Fuck your limited human view point. Can you even into 5th dimensional physics?

On a less amusing meme related jokes Horroterrors basically take advantage of physical laws we can't hope to understand to move through the multiverse. Go forth and multiply right?

Okay, now that you've accepted that lovecraftian entities are moving through multiple timelines and picking up choice realestate in the darkest, strangest parts of the universe they inhabit the next part should be easier to accept.

What is a normal game of Sburb, or in the Troll's case, HiveBent?

It is a game that picks up anywhere from 2 to 24 to an infinite number of players. They're taken at their species age of puberty and the game attempts to teach them how to be normal, healthy adults, and when they've finished the game the game spits out a new universe.

Continues ==>

>>68123
Well, you don't have too. Horrorterrors are just about the only thing that's under guarantee for monstrous horrors, unless you pull off some Jade/Jane shenanigans and have a god-dog/cat as a pet/pain in the butt.

Cosmic Horrors, on the other hand, would have to be unique to the session. Lord English dropping by to say "Die," would be bad form. Imagine accidentally prototyping your Denizen somehow and having a usurper scenario going on.

To curb disastrous inbreeding the juveniles of whatever race is playing this game are given cloning machines and a portal to their new universe, presumably 2 way, so that they can go forth and multiply.

Now what did I just say about Terrorhorrors? "They take advantage of noneuclidean physics to spread through the multiverse and prefer dark, strange places of the universe. These places are where they breed and multiply."

So we've accepted that lovecraftian horrors can use Paradox space as a hangout and breeding ground. What about less benign cosmic entities?

See Beq and Lord English are absolutely not part of a normal game session. Thing is they're products of paradox space, products of evolution focused around channeling vast cosmic forces that man cannot hope to understand.

Sometimes these take the forms of Lord English's absurdly complicated temporal lifecycle, a series of cosmic events dedicated to turning him into a Galactus level threat.

Sometimes they're...wierd. Like Beq.

==> concluded.

>>68126
annnd mage of mind cuts my Glittery Bullshit short.

Basically the Terrorhorrors are the only sure shot. Beq, and Lord english are wierd game specific life forms that are created by the wierd forces that paradox space harnesses. You want to have a picnic, there's a good chance you'll deal with ants.

You wanna play Sburb, there's a good chance you'll deal with cosmic entities.

Anyway enough of my Glittery Bullshit.

We just gonna go with Anathema, Holy, and Unholy items mage? Or should we try for other stuff?

if we're gonna leave it like that lets work on Thrashing out some Fraymotifs.

Everytime AAC lets off with these wierd tangets I get an image of a cat-boi version of hussie walking in and getting involved in some shenanigans.

So do you guys have solid rules for sprites or what? I wanna know what hapens rules wise when I Prototype a Thumbdrive loaded up with Corruption of Champions with my sprite.

>>68129
Sprites lack concrete rules in that they're really only around to give cryptic hints to players and maybe help out in combat after you prototype it a second time. One could just do the same thing with BMF stats, some tags ([Cryptic Bastards] and [Laser Blasts!] probably being mandatory). The initial kernalsprite prototyping gives all creatures within your session a unique tag that they can use for bonus dice. The more people in a session the badder the critters get.

As for the Corruption of Champions thumb drive thing, expect every monster being made of tentacles hellbent on seeking out your orifices.

>>68130
.....CoC anon has given me a TerrorBoner.

okay we give KernalSprites, some Stats, maybe some combat aid at the GMs Discretion and [cryptic bastards] along with [BEAMSPAM] tags.

I think I'll write up a basic chart of FrayMotif effects once I'm done with this bath.

Alright before you build up your character I think you should either A: figure outr what your favorite Computer/NES/SNES/Sega Genesis/Dreamcast/PSX RPG was and try to figure out how to make your characters abilities more like your favorite RPG hero's were. With in mind.

Note that Echeladder rungs are equivelent to levels. We haven't decided on a max yet, for the sake of simplicity Imma say your Echeladder Rung max's out at 12.

You do X Damage, X being your current Echeladder Rung level. You Heal X Damage, X Being your current Echeladder Rung. You grant yourself a Bonus to Rolls equal to your Echeladder Rung. You Grant you allies a bonus to rolls equal to your Echeladder rung.

This about covers combat for the moment, now we get into the wierd stuff.

You can create a duplicate of yourself, they're equal to you in every way statwise but are doomed to death in a number of rounds equal to your current Echeladder Rung. You can go back in time a maximum of hours equal to your current Echeladder Rung.

==> cont

Note that abilities like timetravel are subject to GM Fiat. I would let you go back an hour's length in time and keep hopping back and forth but that's just me...

You can create an Environmental Obstacle that an enemy is forced to get past.

You can take possesion of items and make them do your will.

You can Take control of the minds of others and force them to do your will.

You can take control of creatures that are not self-aware and force them to do your will.

You can turn objects, including random stones and other parts of the environment into Grist.

You gain double the grist for defeating enemies.

You gain health equal to the damage your attack inflicts.

You can Sacrifice HP to do damage to the enemy.

You can force technological devices to stop functioning.

You can force Magical devices to stop functioning.

You can make illusions.



Okay this isn't a chart anymore, It's a list of ideas about what we should be able to do with Fraymotifs. Think we should turn out some crunch for these ideas?

Well the tag system AAC wrote up for the items is basic. But comprehenisve enough. You could easily apply some crunch to it and get all the items you needed.

Why don't we just use a tag system for FrayMotifs, combine it with that condition thingy from thread two, and call it a day?

...Googledocs has crashed my PS3 twice in 5 minutes. Can we get that Design doc in pastebin?

anyway maybe I was the one who said tags are silly as far as FrayMotifs ar concerned.

IfI did... I take it back tags are probably the way to go. We'll just use the descriptions for the Aspects that curator came up with methinks and go from there.

http://pastebin.com/uMkxe1zV

Here it is.

>>68140
Aw yeah, now I can look at the file without crashing my comp... I'll go through the charts and try to produce some content before I turn in. In the meantime lets talk monsters. So like I said I have five kids.

Ozz, the fallout/ironman/gun nut/tech lover.
Byron, The Toku/sentai kid and lover of extreme sports and kunmovies.
Jenna, the girl who likes Strategy games, War history, and dieselpunk
Jean, The heavy metal, My little pony, chopper lovin' dood.
Anise, The cultured, romantic, magic lovin' girl.

Why did I list all 5 of these kids and their interests? 'cause we need to talk monsters.

Okay monsters should have some basic tags.
[Humanoid] [small] [medium] [large] [flying] [swimming] [burrowing] and other stuff like [robot] or [insectoid] so a GM can keep track of what all these things look like. Gimme a second and I'll dummy up some monsters from the kid's first prototype dealies.

Due to shenanigans Ozz's Highly valued Fallout Quintet box (Fallout 1, 2, Tactics, 3, and New Vegas) gets prototyped with his Kernal sprite giving him a suit of T51B power armor that communicates via Ron Perlman narrations.

Byron's sprite is Alchemetized with an apparently random assortment of power rangers and Tokusatsu/Sentai show DVDs (the box of highly ordered disks, each in its own plastic protective covering) fell and the sprite got hit by at least 6 different disks. It speaks in engrish and has a costume made from apparently random bits and bobs taken from various japanese and american shows. (even the Mystic knights of Tir Na Nog. Byron is quite the collector.)

==> continues.

By the time Jean got into the medium and began to prototype his Kernal sprites the monsters were loose. He wanted to prototype it with a poster of Eddie Riggs. The beasties in his house threw his collection of burned CDS at it. Now he has a Sprite that speaks in heavy metal lyrics and is dressed in a chainmail trenchcoat, leather and latex S&M gear, oh, and it wears a gasmask painted up to look like gene simmons.

Anise Prototyped hers with a 5000 page on lady like etiquete. She intentionally left printed out pages from digital comics and manga that contained her favorite magic themed heroes and her favorite romantic manga, comics, and novels. Now she has a very frilly, masculine sorcerer for a sprite who speaks in purple prose.


==> continues.

Jenna being good friends with anise took her advice and stuffed a 10000 page encyclopedia of war with printed out pictures of units from her favorite Civ, RTS, TBS, and various other games. Now she has a garishly uniformed robot who speaks in long inspirational speeches. In general it takes him 15 minutes to say "Go down the hallway and turn left."

So yeah I think the kids aren't going to prototype more than once. So of course we can establish stats and such for monsters now lets go in detail about some of the abominations that my hypothetical group has created. Imma do 5, one lowlevel monster for each kid.

RadWasp
[Small] [Flying] [Mutant] [Cyborg] [Radioactive]
This insect is 4 feet long. It has 6 wings, its eyes glow incandescent green and it can inflict poison status with its sting. This beast usually is seen flying in groups around the Land of Deserts and Demons. Beware of the blasts of radiation it can fire from its eyes.

TokuDrone
[Humanoid] [Medium] [Cyborg] [Technological]
The TokuDron is an odd enemy, a combination of biological and mechanical components no two drones look alike. Some have shiny ostentatious outfits, others have a more subuded look. All of them have stylized helmets depicting animals, sybols, numbers, or iconography, and all of them are completely missmatched. Their arms and legs never match their torso, and their helmets never match the theme of the torso's outfit. Their abilities are likewise mismatched. Deadly hand to hand fighters will come equipped with gun arms, whilst skilled marksmen will be armed with swords. Don't underestimate them, you'll regret it.

TruancyDemons
[Humanoid] [Large] [Demonic] [Magical]
Taken right from the pages of a tawdry boarding school fantasy these truant officers are a young lady's worst nightmare, especially considering the fact that most of them have horns, talons, fangs and an unquenchable hunger for human flesh. Beware their spells and fiendish hex-manacles.

Pain Elemental
[Small] [Amorphous] [Flying] [Unholy]
A pain elemental is a hovering ball of quivering muscle, tendon, organ meat, eye, teeth, and other unidentifiable organic matter. You can tell it's coming by the sound of it's screams. They lay down nasty clouds of noxious fumes that can blind you, and spit poison. Take it out fast or don't fight it at all.

CrystalFreak
[Humanoid] [Mutant] [Technological]
A twisted humanoid, crammed into a random uniform taken from some piece of human fiction or human history. These guys have arms and legs that are mismatched, their necks are too short or too long and their torsos are always too fat or thin for their body. They'yre studded in large glowing crystals, armed with [Incredibly Shitty] weapons and can fire beams of energy from the crystals coating their body.

and this is why my hypothetical characters only get to prototype once. I strongly suggest you make your players Prototype an item that doesn't open up this can of conceptual worms.

==>

Now lets take a step back and look at what happened here. Why are the sprites so freakish? because they got hit with two or 3 concepts at once when they were prototyped. Why are the monsters so varied? Well we got all of fallout, a bunch of toku series (american and japanese) war history, ladies etiquitte (however the fuck that's spelled...) comics on magical heroines and western magical heroes lik ethe phantom stranger, john constantine, and dr. strange, something like 150 heavy metal albums, and Real time as well as turnbased strategy game units.

What am I trying to prove here? oh hypothetical GM Think very. Fucking. Carefully. when you say "yeah, go ahead and prototype that."

Why are the monsters so varied? Okay remember when john prototyped his dumb clown doll? Remember how all the imps, Prospitans and Dersers all wound up with clown outfits? Well if the change to all the monsters everywhere is so drastic, what happens if you hit the Medium with 10+ concepts?

==>

"AAC stop being dumb. A clown outfit isn;t drastic." You're right it isn't. But look at the monsters the Alternian (troll) session spawned when they prototyped their Lusii... Lussesses? Whatever the parenting monsters. Shit got freaky. Point is, be careful what you prototype, You're giving the King and Queen access to everything that you prototype I'll get off my soapbox and start making some charts now.

-Snaps Fingers-

Oh and GM fiat could easily make all my examples look like glittery bullshit. have fun with your sessions kids!

Oh please, I prototyped Nicol Bolas with my sprite and the game has been a breeze so far; but I've yet to see any of this "grist" my chums talk about.

A: I have no idea what that thing is.

B: Sprites wander off at some poorly defined point in the game, probably once you hit midpoint on your Echeladder.

C: you gave all the powers of your Bolasprite to the king, along with every other power the other players in your session gave to him. What with Bolasprite haveing to skive off before the ifnal battle due to predestination...

D: Revised Condition chart. Discuss.

1: At low HP (1/4th Health Vial Maximum)
2: Wielding an item of a specific material (Brass, steel, Ivory).
3: Fighting against a superior foe in some respect (Size, power, speed, etc).
4: You are making use of an unusual form of Locomotion. (I.E. Flight, Burrowing, Swimming, Teleporting. etc. etc.)
5: Your Item has a special Trait (I.E. Holy, Unholy, Anathematical, Magic, Arcane Deuedly, Polymorphical. Etc. Etc.)
6: You have to pay in some form of currency to perform the Fraymotif. (Boonbucks, Health, Girst, Healing Gel, Etc.)

and of course there's the team combo Fraymotif requiring a buddy.

>>68154
Your session sounds like a lot of fun AAC. Could you crunch up come stats for some of the more basic enemies? Imps, Ogres, Foot Soldiers of Derse...dragons shit like that?

Oh, and I like the Tag Quality thing... I'd Probably have a Belmont look alike. Give him an Anathematical Whip [Anathema: Undead] and have him get one made from [Holy Iron] Probably make some sort of Tornado style super attack.

Okay gimme a second... Just use these stats as a base if you're feeling lazy or don't have much prep time. It's been awhile so I'll just think up six basic monster types, small, medium, large body beasties, then a flyer like...a standard dragon thingy, burrower, and a sea serpent. Should cover all monstrous niches.

Imp
[Small]
Mind: 1
Body: 3
Finesse: 5

Derse/Prospit Foot Soldier
[Medium]
Mind: 3
Body: 3
Finesse: 3

Ogre
[Large]
Mind: 1
Body: 8
Finesse: 2

Drake
[Flyer] [Medium]
Mind: 4
Body: 2
Finesse: 4

OmegaMole
[Medium] [Burrower]
Mind: 2
Body: 5
Finesse: 2

Sea Serpent
[Medium] [Aquatic]
Mind: 3
Body: 3
Finesse: 4

If you think the stats are wrong feel free to correct them via post, or just give suggestions or whatever. I figure the monsters stats would increase in appropiate areas as Tags like [Radioactive] or [Trihorn] were added.

A: Nicol Bolas is a Planeswalker, a being of immeasurable power with the ability to reshape existence by simply channeling the mana of the world around him into summoing epic creatures and casting devastating spells. He controls the Infinite Consortium, a organization that spans many planes of existence and controls lesser planeswalkers. He is the only remaining Elder Dragon, beings that are already uber-powerful, the Planeswalker Spark is just icing on the already huge, dragon-shaped cake. It goes without saying, he's probably the second or first most dangerous being in the existence of the multiverse of Magic: the Gathering. I say that, only because there's likely Eldrazi that out class him and Phyrexians are sort of neutered in that they can't Planeswalk without assistance.

This bozo just gave the Black King and Queen all those powers, not too mention more if he had friends playing with him.

D: I like all of those, except for result number six. You're already dropping MP on this, why pay more than you have too?

>>68157
Well THERES an unwinnable session. Okay number six was basically ripped straight from FF's ronin summon... Gimme a second...

1: At low HP (1/4th Health Vial Maximum)
2: Wielding an item of a specific material (Brass, steel, Ivory).
3: Fighting against a superior foe in some respect (Size, power, speed, etc).
4: Making use of an unusual form of Locomotion. (I.E. Flight, Burrowing, Swimming, Teleporting. etc. etc.)
5: Item has a special Trait (I.E. Holy, Unholy, Anathematical, Magic, Arcane, Deuedly, Polymorphical. Etc. Etc.)
6: Your Enemy is making use a specific kind of attack. (Physical Magical, Ranged, Melee, Sonic, Fire, etc.)

How about this one? Coming up with these lists is tough. What would you put in number 6 Mage?

You have created a terrifying array of powers for monsters to draw off of... Lets just nab one from each of your players and stat it.

From Ozz we're gonna take [Irradiated] and give that monster a +1 bonus to mind and the ability to fire Radiation out of its eyes.

From Byron We'll Take [Cybernetic] and grant all enemies some technological integration, giving them either a bonus of +1 to Body or Mind and give them an Integrated weapon (like a gun arm or wolverine claws...you know stuff a tokuvillian would have. Or like the guyver or something.)

From Jean We'll take [Unholy] and give a Monsters a Mind Bonus and the ability to curse things.

From Anise we'll take [Coy] and grant enemies a sort of passive agressive will-you-won't-you nature, giving them a +2 bonus to finesses.

and from Jenna we'll take [Vehicular] granting monsters traits taken from industrial and war machines (Drills, treads, propellers etc. etc.) and giving them yet another +1 to body.

Hope you have meatshields.

Time
1: +3 dice to dodge rolls for both Fraymotif users.
2: Make one target invulnerable, but unable to act for a number of turns equal to your Mind roll.
3: Return one target's HP to what it was 2 turns ago.
4: Your next attack counts as a sneak attack.
5: Do a rewind, avoiding any damage that the next attack  made against you would do.
6: Roll your Mind dice, for every die that rolls above 3 you are allowed to take a a free action.

Lets say I have a mind of 5, I roll and three dice come up four. So I am allowed to take a free action, a single action that doesn't count against my alloted actions this round. So I would be able to attack my enemy 3 more times per turn, or If I had some explosives on hand I could use one action to rig the explosives, one action to attach them to my enemy, one action to grab my buddy, and my 4th action, my normal action could be used to escape.

So whatcha think. Too OP?

>>68157
Nothing that bad seems to have happened though; the imps and stuff have gained wings, some of them can breath out streams of fire, and others have this nasty ability to increase their physical damage that's it.

But we all seem to have hit a grist shortage. I wonder why?

>>68157
Unless it was a tier-two prototyping after entering the session, in which case it did fuckall to the imps and royalty.

>>68171
Nvm.

What are we doing right now? Fraymotif conditions and effects?

>check out the googledoc
>it's a classic case of "Let's make this all as complicated as we possibly can!"

God damn it, guys, nobody wants to play an RPG that's an endless brick of numbers. Take a page from Thoreau and simplify.

>>68173
I thought tier two prototyping still gave the imps and royalty and what not powers? At twelve players the Alternians decided not to prototype more than once so they wouldn't give the imps and what not disastrous powers.


>>68171
Stop being Coy and just tell us why you think prototyping your sprite with an Omnipotent entity was a good idea.

>>68175
We're building crunch for the game, one part of that crunch is an arkham horror style board game where you draw cards and roll dice for effects. The other half is your basic RPG and that's rulled by a tag system which is 90% "do whatever you want" but we need rules for that "do whatever you want" So that's what we're doing. Making Crunch for "do whatever you want" and dice charts for the Arkham horror segments. Thanks for the input though, I'm pretty sure everyone involved wanted to streamline the process after we got a prototype up and running.

In the meantime I'll try producing more Fraymtif charts.

>>68175
Thoreau? Sounds like a casual.

>>68177
Nope. The trolls, as they said a few times to the kids, were at a disadvantage in that they didn't have the trolls to guide and advise them, they only had Rose's faulty game guide thanks to Kanaya. The imps and king/queen/Jack/PM didn't all get Jade's traits or John's grandmother's traits or, thank fuck, future Dave/Davesprite's traits.

The canon rules on prototyping, I believe, are:
-Every sprite must be prototyped at least once before entering the session, or the session is "void" (cannot be completed without external intervention).
-Any prototyping done before entering the session affects the forms of the monsters in the session and of the prototyping rings the bosses wear.
-The second prototyping can be done before or after entering the session, but adds forms to the rings if it's done before.

Void
1: Invisible for success turns. Enemies cannot make dodge rolls against your attacks.
2: Nullify the next attack that targets you, as you make it null and void.
3: Your next unarmed attack roll gains +3 dice and one automatic success when determining damage.
4: You create a portal and show your enemy the depths of the Abyss. your enemy must roll Mind to resist Confusion and Damage. If he succeeds he isn't confused and takes half damage, if he fails he's confused and takes full damage.
5: You create a portal to the blackest depths of some strange NonEuclidian dimension above the battlefield, enemies must make a mind roll or gain a -4 penalty to all actions. Allies don't have to make the roll, though they're afflicted with the same penalty if they choose to look up.
6: Choose One enemy, they have to succeed in a Body roll against your Mind dice or be sucked into the darkest depths of spece. Even if they succeed they take Vacuum and Cold Damage equal to your Echeladder

Okay New Void chart, Discuss.

>>68178
Well I'll have to revise some of my prototyping shenanigans, but those seem to be good rules to follow.

Anyway since Void is a Viable alternative to space I figure you could use it to teleport like space but you'd have to pas sthrrough an intermediate void to get anywhere (thus meaning all my kids have protective equipment built into their outfits so Byron can teleport them.) and more importtantly it can be used offensively if your player is crazy enough to start opening up portals to deepspace to suck imps and other such enemies up. Probably opens up a second portal to return the grist to Skaia afterwards...

>>68180
That's one of its canon abilities, looking at Roxy. She uses the void as a waystation for Problem Sleuth-style windows. Void appears to be synonymous with the area beyond the Furthest Ring, where horrorterrors and dream bubbles reside; This is important to note because it ISN'T space, which has very little meaning in the Void.

Any element can probably be harnessed offensively. The Prince class appears to be capable of channeling the pure essence of the element itself offensively, so Void would probably be some... black... cold... really absorbent energy beam. On the other hand, whether the element itself has much effect on the beam remains to be seen, as Eridan's hope ("white science") rays were just a winding white trail of energy that fucked shit up, not unlike the Red Miles.

I looked sprites up on the wiki, which confirms that:
>only pre-session prototyping affect the session, because when the player enters the "kernel" (part that affects monsters) and "sprite" (lovable companion) split apart
>sprites must be prototyped at least once pre-session because Skaia and the Battlefield evolve every time a kernel and sprite split; The only reason the Alpha session has a chance of success is that Jade and John are bringing their fully prototyped battlefield/skaia with them
>sprites aren't necessarily REQUIRED to be prototyped with dead or doomed things, but aside from Caliborn's, which arguably was prototyped with a dying star anyway, all thus far have been
>More than two prototypings may be possible, again Caliborn's could be an example of this as it appeared to absorb all matter around it like a black hole.

I may work on fraymotif shit or whatever in a few, gotta get a drink and check facebook.

>>68181
That's hella useful to know actually. I juuuuust started reading the alpha session, and I'm gonna have to view all those flash files my PS3 won't prcess next library trip... Now I definetly have to have Byron Alchemize protective outfits for each of his friends. I figure we can add in rules for exposure to various angerous environments at some pont, splatbook style.

In the meantime Imma waitin' for mage's approval Void and Conditions, maybe I'll throw up some other stuff in the meantime.

>>68175
Well, there's definitely more difficult RPGs out there, but this one is a lot less complicated than others. I mean, how difficult is it to do a little math for alchemization and all you have to do is count tags to see how big or small your dice pool is.

As far as the conditions and void abilities, I'm satisfied with them. Added and upd8'd.

Em Oh Em has a point brah, all RPGs have some math. I mean the Google doc and pastbin files are a bit complex because we haven't bothered to go in there, clean up the language, parse sentences and shit like that, but mathwise its not terribly complex. We just need a stable chart of stuff like [Tough] and [Smart] bonuses to tags. anyways.

Cool, glad you like the new charts Mage, gimme a minute Imma read up on descrips to aspects and try to fill up one of the empty ones.

>>68177
Well it looks like our game is glitching up. There no longer is any Grist and it is somehow my fault. I'm not sure how, and neither does anyone else. Yet everytime I log on all I get is yelled at by my chums because of my dunderhead move.

I just thought Bolas would be a good ally to have is all; he's a freaking dragon! What else should I have prototyped? Plus I am the Knight, or so I've been told by Bolasprite, dragons and knights go together.

>>68185
Bolas is an omnipotent entity. Your first prototype, pre medium entrance, from what my qustineering seems to tell me, modifies the lands and enemies. You gave omnipotence to every single monster in the game. Also either the Black king in using his omnipotence to keep grist from being generated, or there's some sort of plot involving a device that converts items into grist.

Okay I was gonna do blood or rage but I'm not trudging through page-of-hopes titles and lands test because they slow down my PS3 to a snails pace and make me nervous that the thing is going to crash. How literal is the Aspect of Blood anyway? full on blood manipulation or what? Imma dothe beat table in the meantime...

"Tick, tock, you just got rocked."

Beat Table
1: With your master of rhythm you're able to avoid enemy attacks. All enemy attacks against you fail on your next turn.
2: Any good beat repeats once or twice. You can return a target's health to what it was 2 turns ago.
3: Tim'e just the vinyl that you play your sick beats on. You gain a number of free actions equal to half your echeladder.
4: Arrythmia's a nasty thing. A target of your choice now has a -4 penalty to any action it takes for 3 turns.
5: The B to the E to the A to the T. Make a single attack, then roll your Mind die, multiply your damage by the successes.
6: You know how to synchonize like no one else. Either you, or one of your Allies add Half your Echeladder in dice when making their next roll.

Okay lame jokes aside, does this suit a beat player? I used some time abilities since there's overlap...

>>68187
Looks okay, but we should save the alternate Aspects for later and stick with the canon 12 first.

Bolas-session dude: Your enemies are totally hording the grist, as dragons often do. Look around where they gather and see if you can find a decent cache of the stuff somewhere.

>>68192
Noted, going through Sburb Glitch faq nbow for ideas. Shit is cash.

Though my Knight of Hope is more Simon/Kamina through the lense of Fallout than Protoman. "Hope Is Never Alone!" gonna have to have some protoman themed armor for Ozz now though... Uh anyway I'll try one of the empty charts now. gimme a second.

>Looking for info on mind so I can work up a chart for the duo FrayMotifs on Sburb Glitch Guide.
>Only find oblique references to this or that.
>can only really recall Terezi using her seer powers to view the future and determine the best possible outcome for herself and her loved ones.
>MFW
Mage, gimme your view on Mind powers.
In the meantime I guess I'll get to work on light.

Mind isn't my Aspect (technically Breath is, if Page of Hope's thing is to be believed.), but this is what I mused up for Mind in the second thread: Mind is another control aspect, having more esoteric combat powers, like domination and psychic feedback, perhaps, with a little something to soothe the madness in the mind.

Light
1: All 1 results on the die rolls become 3 for success turns.
2: Invert all die rolls less than six (1->6, 2->5, etc.) on everyone for three turns or just yourself for six.
3: -1 dice to all enemy rolls and +1 dice to all of your and your ally's rolls
4: The next action you take adds your Echeladder rank in extra die
5: Choose a target, roll your mind dice. Your enemy is given a penalty for all actions, each succesful die counts as a -1 penalty.
6: Halve your Echeladder rank, you gain that many dice in terms of damage when it comes to your next attack.

Light seems to have this whole luck thing going on. Not sure if this fits. Since its such a broken class I upgraded that +1 and -1 to dice instead of minor buffs and debuffs.
 

Light is luck and fortune, so, yeah, it fits. Names are often misleading with Aspects and Classes (Light being good luck, Blood being ties, and Heart being equated with souls.) and it comes down to creative interpretation of things.

>>68195
The more I learn about Sburb the more confusing it gets. But thanks for the answer, makes stuff easier. Uh, I'll just try to fill up the listed charts and once we have all twelve filled we can work on making mundane FrayMotifs and Abilities like spells and crap like that. Dave just uses his discjockey mahoojits to time travel rather than using a fraymotif. Anyway Mind Chart.

Mind
1: Roll you Echeladder's Dice pool, that result is your inflicted damage. Your enemy rolls mind to resist this, if he succeeds he takes half your mind roll and half your Echeladder rank's damage. If he fails he takes full damage.
2: Your allies get +X to all their rolls, X being your mind Stat. Lasts for 3 rounds.
3: You place distracting thoughts in the minds of your enemies. They gain a -X penalty to all rolls for 3 rounds. X being your mind stat.
4:
5:
6:
 
So far this is allI got, I'm going in the "Mind war" direction, if that's appropiate I'll continue.

I rounded Mind out with:
4: One creature becomes [confused] for 6 rounds, or a group of creatures becomes [Confused] for 3 rounds.
5: You or an ally anticipates an enemy's actions, gaining a +3 to your damage reduction roll for the next 3 rounds.
6: Remove the [Confusion], [Blind], [Deaf], or [Scentless] condition from yourself or an ally.

Six has those conditions because each one links back to the brain (Hence the Mind) in some way.

>>68199
Aren't these for rolling up a pair of fraymotifs? Like you know X-Slash and Red Needle from chrono trigger? Shouldn't these be combat oriented to some degree...? Oh whatever. Blood is next I guess.

Ohboy. Ties are going to be such a pain in the ass to figure out...

>>68200
Wow. I sound snitty in that post, apologies if I came off as being a Jerk Mage. Uhm, anyway I think we should try for Dice roll bonuses rather than numeric bonuses but whatever. Blood Chart soon.

Blood
Note, all blood healing is temporary and the healthpoints restored by a blood player diappear after an encounter is complted. All blood characters have regeneration equal to a "Pulse Attunement" rate that starts at 1 and can be increased by paying Mythos points. (i.e. they heal 1 HP per round until they pay MP to increase it.)


1: You animate an object and force it to attack the enemy. This can be anything from your own weapons to the subjects clothing. The damage is equal to your Body dice pool.
2: You heal a target with an ammount equal to twice your Body dice, the HP gained from this is subject to the Blood healing rule.
3: You can sacrifice your own regeneration abilities for the encounter to grant an ally a stat bonus equal to your Body dice.
4: You create a golem out of whatever environmental materials are at hand and order it to attack the enemy. It does your Echeladder and Body dice combined in terms of damage.
5:
6:
 
So this is what I'm going for in terms of blood, is this the right feel?

The golem ability seems out of place. Some more buffing of allies would probably be in order.

Eh, that had to do with imbuing an object with [the pulse of life] but what ev's

1: You animate an object and force it to attack the enemy. This can be anything from your own weapons to the subjects clothing. The damage is equal to your Body dice pool.
2: You heal a target with an ammount equal to twice your Body dice, the HP gained from this is subject to the Blood healing rule.
3: You can sacrifice your own regeneration abilities for the encounter to grant an ally a stat bonus equal to your Body dice.
4: You can use the ties that bind an enemy to his allies to inflict all of them with negative effects. Roll 1d6 you afflict your main target and that many extra targets with a status condition chosen by rolling on the status effect chart.
5:
6:
 
This better? maybe use the whole blood-ties thing to hit the enemy with some bad juju?

Blood does have a few life elements to it, but it also works on ties. If anything, animation abilities belong in Breath (Breathing life into your creations) and a little within Life.

5: Choose one stat and roll it. Each ally gains an additional amount of dice equal to your successes to rolls regarding the stat you picked for 3 rounds.
6: Roll mind and choose that many enemies. You sever their ties and those enemies wander off to do whatever it is they do.

These would probably be good ones to round it off.

>>68206
Okay Breath is the animation dealie. Blood is one of those wierd widgety aspects, but its mostly "thicker than water" in terms of what it does. I'm fine with those abilities. Once we have all the charts we can compare and try to match up power levels. Anyway I'm gonna do hope next.

My view on hope is that it's basically like spiral power from TTGL "ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH!" and that you use it to fuel awesome abilities, either your own, or your allies. If ytou feel this doesn't fit we can always revise. Hope chart, comin right atcha so put on your 3D glasses!

It just occured to me that Powers are supposed to be unituitive and wierd as hell in Sburb so widgety powers all over the place makes MORE sense not less. eh what ev's

Hope
1: +3 to any one stat until the end of the encounter.
2: Heal target player or NPC for a number of health equal to your successes on a roll of a stat of your choice.
3: Halve your total Echeladder ranks and add the total as additional dice to your next roll.
4: Choose an Item you are equipped with. That item gains a number of tiers equal to a stat of your choice. You may add a number of tags equal to the stat you chose. This ability lasts until the end of your encounter.
5: A stat of your choice now serves as a bonus dice pool for any action your ally attempts during this encounter. This can work both ways, an ally can supply the same bonus to you if they so consent, but it only works one way. Either you get the bonus, or they do.
6: You beconme immune to negative status effects.

This seem alright? Too OP or wierd?
 

I like'em all, but number four seems a little wonky to me. Sudden tier growth is pretty within Hope's 'powerful later, weak now' thing, but it seems like it could get out of hand rather quick.

>>68211
Giam Fiat, and all these abilities are temporary and last only as long as the encounter. Think of it like this. Instead of [Incadescent Polytechnica] or some other ability I go with [The Long Forgotten Dream] or some other pretentious sounding name.

basically I scrawl out a bunch of Item tags. I take my [44. AssReamer]semi automatic 44. handgun, and then roll a d6, it come sup 2. I tag on [Homing] granting me an extra dice for attacking and [Explosive] so my bullets do an extra 1d6 explosive damage. this lasts as long as the battle and after the battle it goes back to normal.

We could always just revise the chart if you still have reservations. Or at least it would be dice based in terms of hope abilities. These are duo fraymotifs so I think they should be a little Over Powered. If you think the stat thing is too much we could change it to a 1d6 dice roll, you get 1-6 tags to tack onto your armor, gadget or weapon.

Or not, -shrugs- chart revision, is as usual an option.

I like 1d6 roll better. Time to cross Hope off the list!

1d6 it is. I just realy like that ability and wanted it in. lets see which chart now...LIFE AH CHOOSE YUU!

All that remains is Breath, Doom, Heart, Life, Light, and Rage, but the good news is, most of them are done-ish. Reposting some of my ideas from thread 2.

>Heart would have several soul related abilities, likely buffing abilities and perhaps a soul-crushingly good attack ability.

>Rage has similar buffing elements, mostly self-only, with perhaps one party wide enhancement.

>Doom, if we go with the endings, death, and entropy idea, is about direct damage, which it may share with Rage, and has the ability to end ongoing effects and debuffing enemies.

>Light is the opposite of Doom, having many screwy luck boosting qualities and even a debuff or two.

>Life, for example, would be about healing and buffing allies, with a small element of control with native flora.

>Breath is all about control and flinging people around, with a single, mild healing ability. Not like Life or Hope, but pretty good in a pinch.

Blood healing just provides temporary vitalkity, life healing on the other hand actually restores what's been taken.

Life
1: Heal a target a number of damage equal to your Echeladder rank.
2: Entangle enemies in roots, giving them a -3 to Finesse for 3 turns.
3: You strike at the enemy with the power of the land itself. You do Xd6 damage to your enemy, the X being your Echeladder rank.
4: You conjure forth vibes, leaves, fungi, and even the occasional insect to serve as equipment. You gain Xd6 Damage resistance of your choice, X being your echeladder rank.
5:
6:

This is the flavour I was thinking of, manipulating the land's plants and animals to serve your own ends. along with the healing and stuff. Once we have all these charts we need to examine them and make certain they all have the proper terminology. Oh and puns, and stuff, like the beat chart.

So is this in character with our version of Sburb or what?

A good start so far. Probably something like:

5: Roll your Body stat. If you succeed, all of your nearby allies add your successes in extra dice to Body rolls.

adds a little vim and vigor to Life.

And this,

6: If someone nearby is knocked out or on death's door, revive them at half of their total HP.

is good for a little reviving technique.

That looks good to me. We can come up with puns and snarky comments and stuff like that later. I take it were smashing out charts for the canon 12 so we can get an immediate Playtest going?

anyway uh, I fyou scroll up you can see I dummied up some charts for light, void, blood and I think that's about it.

Think we should work on rage next.

After we have fray motifs we need to work on spells or abilities or whatever you want to call them. Fraymotifs are big attacks and we've been treating them like special abilities. Hum.
anyway rage chart next.

Rage
1: +3 to any stat of your choice.
2: Xd6 bonus to any damage you deal with this attack, X being your Echeladder rank.
3: You now ignore your health in combat. If you have 0 or negative health after combat you are KO'd and the KO rules apply. if your Negative health after combat ends is equal to 100% of your health you are dead, no exceptions.
4: You grant +3 stat bonuses to every ally within your immediate vicinity.
5:
6:

I think this suits rage, as described in your Post Mage, if noyt feel free to correct me.

Whoops, didn't see those there. Okay, fixed those puppies up. Doom, Rage, Breath, and Heart left.

Spells and abilities should key off one's Title, I feel. You could be the Price of Life, but you certainly wouldn't be doing any healing, more like being the bane of anything that's alive. Great for keeping water fresh, bad for anything with a pulse. Cool Powers (TM) would probably be related to one's Echeladder rank as well.

I would say Mythos Powers but we already hav MP. Mythos Abilities?

Honestly I like "Cool Powers" because its such a hilariously bad and lazy name. I can just see Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff doing a comic demonstrating play mechanics for them.

anyway. If you haven't finished rage in the meantime I'll take a crack at the last few entires on that chart.

But fo rnow. DOOM.

It's what I do in World of Darkness. If you're brewing something up for it, it boils down to W Race, X Faction, Z Power Stat, Y Energy Stat, and Cool Powers, generally one for each faction and race, with a few manipulation powers thrown in because White Wolf has all the boners for mind control. All of them.

Mythos Abilities sounds good for now.

I counted as many as 15 fuckin' entries on Jane's echeladder, we need toi dummy up a formula for Echeladder Progression. Like every 3 levels you get a new Cool Power... Oh, and we need to make a confusion chart.

Doom
1: Remove/end one harmful effect currently affecting you.
2: Pick a harmful status effect, you can afflict any one target with that effect.
3: You do Xd6 Damage to a target, X being you echeladder rank.
4: All enemies are inflicted with -4 penalties to all actions.
5: All attacks you make inflict a status effect until the end of the encounter, status effect is random, roll on status effect chart. Enemies roll the appropiate stat to resist both attacks and status effects.
6: You nullify half the damage from all enemy attacks (round down) for the rest of the encounter.

how's this for doom? basically I started with the mostly complete charts and moved onto the empty ones...

>>68230
huh huh huh you said boners!

Right cool, I think we should just try to attach "Mythos <descriptor>" to anything that needs describing.

I figure at your 5th echeladder rank (The GM gets to decide how high you go, and how fast) Ozz would gain [POWER UP] granting him the 1d6 tags to attach to his item ability. Only has to use it on a different item each time. and he has to use it on at least two other items befoire he can use it on the one he started with like he uses it on his [22. Pipsqueek] then he uses it on his [Pipboy 3000] then he uses it on his [Prescription Glasses] then he can use it on his [22. Pipsqueek] again. sound sensible?

Delicious, delicious entropy. Solid work right there. Echeladder stuff is mostly bullshit, just adding to your health and some more boondollars and grist to your stores as you go up. I said something around 3 times the number of players for the final amount of rungs, but a flat 12 or so can work. Cool Powers, or Mythos Abilities, can be a few listed things, but you get an amount of dice to roll for random values based on your Echeladder rank (1 die per three rungs?). Acting within the scope of your title adds two dice. So a Knight of Mind using their Mythos Abilites to defend someone adds two dice to their power roll, if any.

Rage
1: +3 to any stat of your choice.
2: Xd6 bonus to any damage you deal with this attack, X being your Echeladder rank.
3: You now ignore your health in combat. If you have 0 or negative health after combat you are KO'd and the KO rules apply. if your Negative health after combat ends is equal to 100% of your health you are dead, no exceptions.
4: You grant +3 stat bonuses to every ally within your immediate vicinity.
5: You Xd6 to your attack and Damage rolls for the rest of the encounter. X being your echeladder rank.
6: You remove any buffs that enemies have, and nullify any buffs they would recieve for the rest of the encounter. You recieve those buffs yourself instead.

Eh I know Echeladders are 90% glittery Bullshit, but they're useful as an escalatuing statistic that can be tied to abilities. lets have 12 as a suggested maximum and let players increase that if they feel like it.

In the meantime, revised rage chart, I think eating an enemy's rage (buffs) sounds fitting for a Rage Aspect.

Hm. I've been thinking. What if we removed the re-roll thing entirely, instead allowing you to do a re-roll for 5 MP? I've been getting some confusion complaints about it. Mythos Abilities may have a 1 MP cost as well.

To compensate for this, I think a character should have two Mythos Traits, one relating to disposition or some silly meter (Lass Sass, Mangrit, etc.) and one relating to their class.

Maybe even hand out XP to avoid relying too much on MP for advancement and cool powers.

well near as I can understand it the reroll thing consisted of around 6 reroll conduitions which were narrative based and would let you evade death by bad roll. But you could only use one of each of those 6 once per session. Very WW style of doing things.

But most people rock D20 or Mutants and Mastermind style systems so the inherent wierdness of a White wolf game doesn't quite jive with their experiences.

So yeah, lets have actual XP, handed out by the GM whenever he feels like it. ( I would just hand out levels personally.) or just say you level up when the GM says so. and reserve MP for special stuff like Fraymotifs, and ReRolls.

Well we've got a prankster guage. I figure Ozz could have a [Empty-Full] gauge, it would have a little glass above it and you could alot oints to it, a half full glass would net bonuses and a half empty glass would inflict penalties.

Whatcha think?

So what, we have light life and breath left to work out? (It was a long drink interspersed with dates.) I'd take light if so, or breath to fill out.

>>68263
*light heart and breath

Looked more carefully and its just heart and breath now? Cool.

Breath
4: For the next turn, each attack on the Breath player has an extra roll to be dodged. Not required if the first roll is successful.
5: You use gale-force winds to pelt your opponents with debris. Does Xd6 damage to one enemy or 1/2Xd6 to all enemies, where X is the Breath player's finesse.
6: For a number of turns equal to the Breath player's Echeladder level, all enemies' attacks are decreased in damage by 3 (to a lower limit of 0) and all present allies' increased by 3.

Look good?

We've got half of Breath and all of Heart left.

AAC, as far as that goes, I was using the term gauge to describe the first mythos stat aquistion chart thing we came up with.

The second Mythos Point aquistion chart would be related to your Class. You get points by acting in line with your class, so let's take Knight for example. The Knight chart would be like this:

+1 MP: Defending one of your fellow players.
+3 MP: Taking the killing blow meant for one of your unconscious teammates.
+10 MP: Death by taking the hit meant for one or all of your fellow players or having a player die when you could have prevented.

Pic related, in that he's a Knight, but not a very good one. (And I lack Dave pictures, but that's beside the point.)

Heart
1: You boost the target's morale. Add 1d6 to all dice rolls for three turns, or 2d6 to your own for two turns if cast on self.
2: You stop the target's literal heart. 1d6 decides the number of turns they are incapacitated. During this time they can take damage, but mind and life rolls do not affect them, and they take increasing damage each turn equal to the Echeladder level. Can be cast on self. [At level one, it does 1, then 2, then 3, for a maximum of 21. At 12 it does 1, then 13, then 25, for a maximum of 186.]
3: Decide a number of turns. For those turns, the Heart player cannot attack or dodge, but each ally gains their attack and dodge rolls atop their own. The number of turns this lasts cannot be changed after it has begun.
4: You bring a target inner harmony. Roll 2d6 and add the result to each of their attacks for three turns. Roll 3d6 for a Light player.
5: For half of your maximum HP, resurrect or revive a player who has fallen or been knocked out in the current strife without using one of their lives. If your HP drops below 1 as a result, you are dead (regardless of healing).
6: Undo any debuffs to your team, and choose two to invert and apply to yourself. [-3 dodge, -4 finesse and -2 body; choose dodge and finesse, gain 3 dodge and 4 finesse] [probably should word this better but im not eloquent tonight]

Feel free to toy with these as you wish. I kinda feel like Heart is an aspect tailoured for the knight class; Only so much you can do with the soul theme that isn't covered by life, and most of it is self-sacrifical. Tried to make it more powerful to balance the self-sacrifice aspect and give it that one devastating attack move (much much more devastating at higher levels, since damage increases pretty much exponentially).

I have dave pictures but they're all Dave/Terezi porn. So, uhm pretty off topic.

Anyway I think we've established that Echeladder Ranks are our Analogues to levels. So lets say the Flat Rate is 12, but we can use the "Player number times 3" model that you suggested as well. (In my case that'd be either 15 or 30 if you count the aliens.) anyway Back to my original point. Lets say every 3 levels you get a Mythos Ability.At my suggested 12 that'd mean you get 4 Cool Powers. So lets explore that. We'll point to the Fraymotif Duo charts for suggested powers and the Descriptions of abilities included in the player handbook for more power descriptions, otherwise its mostly player tailored, based on their aspect and their class. Now gimme a second and I'll rattle off five examples of Mythos Abilities (also I think its time Someone else got a chance to do charts. If you want me to help with that more just say so.)

Ok I got 2 prospit dreamers and 3 derse dreamers.

Ozz Brighton The knight of Hope.

Byron Green, the Ranger of Void (I use Ranger in term of a warrior or guard who moves alot. I don't think that's a standard class... is it?)

Jenna, The Skald of Life. (Seems a bit wierd on the surface, but think of all the buff items she can make...)

Jean, The Bard of Beat.

Anise the Seer of Doom.

Okay Ozz, Being a Knight, takes as his first Hope ability [Who The Hell Do You Think I Am?!] This lets him Heal Himself once per Encounter and Shrug off any Status effects he's inflicted with provided he makes a difficulty roll of 3.

Byron Being a Void player gets [If You Look Into The Void] Where upon he generates a window into the abyss, this inflicts any enemy who looks into the window with a penalty of -X to his rolls, X being Byron's Echeladder rank.

Okay the Skald has me mildly stumped. So do they alchemize things or what...?

>>68267
I'd love to, but I'm having trouble being dependable with this as I am continually getting sidetracked by real life. I'll continue contributing where I can.

Do we have data on each class yet? If not I could condense the data on the wiki into a list or chart, and from that we can mix 'n' match with the aspects to make mythological roles or a guide to making templates from those.

Oh and ozz heals X damage when he uses [Who the hell...] X being echeladder blah blah...

Anyway We have Anise, the Seer of Doom who gets [I'm 3 Moves Ahead Of You] which nets her +X to either attack or damage for the rest of the battle. X of course being echeladder rank.

Finally we come to Jean, Bard of Beat, who gets [I Am A Leaf On The Wind] which grants him +X to dodging attacks for the rest of the encounter, X being echeladder ranks.

Lets see, Skalds were poet smith's right...?

Well anyway point is, the first Mythos Ability should, regardless of a Passive or Agressive class should be devoted to providing it's user with an advantage that will help them survive the rest of the game. Since it comes in at your 3rd echeladder rank I think we can smooth over any "weak now, strong later" concerns.

On the other hand the abilities are crafted from the ground up by the player and GM so what the hell? Make whatever suits your session right?

>>68268
I excuse your cheesy Nietzsche reference because the cheesy TTGL reference made me giggle. Different kinds of cheese I guess.

I don't know what Skalds do in terms of games? historically they're a specific kind of bard that spins tales of their king's great deeds. Bards in Sburb both harness their aspect directly in a literal sense (as seen in Gamzee losing his shit when he runs out of sopor slime and wailing on the Black King), and allow the aspect itself to destroy- Which only makes sense compared to the prince, who directly channels the sheer essence of the aspect to destroy things, or destroys the aspect itself.

If a skald is "someone that makes things," perhaps they have the ability beyond alchemy to synthesise things through more conventional things? Like sticking arms in a cake or building a bomb?

Well there's probably some stuff (in fact I know there is) on some of the newer/custom classes in thread two, but if you could condense the basics of each class in the wiki and drop it in the thread that'd be nice.

alright since the day is winding down Imma try to just chill out (unless mage pops up and acts hellaciously active) and wait for feedback on the whole mythos ability example.

Tommorrow I'll probably type up some charts for the original 12 aspects, sooner we get that shit and nail down the game concepts that are flapping in the breeze the sooner we can playtest.

>>68271
Well byron's 4th Mythos ability would be [The Void Looks Into You] and would have a chance of insta killing anything it's used on. Basically he opens a window DIRECTLY in front of a Horroterror. Foreshadowing.

Also I like cheese, in the form of old bmovies and newer stuff like TTGL, which pretty much all of Ozz's Abilities would reference. hell his 3rd Tier Mythos ability would be dedicated to temporarily adding item tags to his items.

Okay so Skalds were poets, but they were equated with the Smith cast when Curator threw up his class ideas. Guess I'll just switch Jenna over to something else. I'm Leaning towards something commander-ish.

>>68272
Fuck yeah.

Prolly headed to bed after this.

SEER: Passive class. Comprehensive knowledge of Sburb itself through the lens of their aspect. Advises the group, steers them to victory and avoids mishaps.
KNIGHT: Unclear assignment (most likely passive). Using their aspect as a weapon or tool, personally sees to the protection of their teammates. Possibly capable of resurrection without dream bodies through their aspect (karkat's is blood and he *possibly* resurrected Kanaya, Dave's is time and he resurrected John and Jade).
ROGUE: Passive class. Capable of "stealing" their aspect, but not for personal gain. Capable of sharing their aspect with teammates.
THIEF: Active class. Capable of "stealing" their aspect, but not sharing it. This allows them both to use the aspect as a weapon (e.g. Vriska rolling naturally 88888888's every time) and use the actual theft as a weapon (e.g. Vriska stealing the bicyclops's luck and causing it to unfortunately fall through the floor).
BARD: Passive class. Unpredictable powers, but capable of allowing their aspect to destroy the things around them, and also negotiating teammates to destroy their aspect (Bard of Doom might be able to relieve feelings of dismay; Bard of Rage might be able to stop fights).
PRINCE: Active class. Also fairly unpredictable. Capable of directly destroying their own aspect, and also channelling its pure essence to destroy (in the form of ray-magic).
SYLPH: Passive class. Clerics, essentially, heal the other players using their aspect or by restoring their aspect.
WITCH: Active class. Capable of changing or manipulating their aspect, altering its behaviour or shape.
MAID: Unclear assignment (most likely passive). Able to provide their aspect as a resource to themselves or others.
PAGE: Unclear assignment (likely active). Controls their aspect to aid others (also unclear abilities, this is speculation). [dresses like Robin, taken with the Knight's fairly Batmannish garb this could be taken to mean that they protect the knight with their aspect as well.]
MAGE: Unclear assignment (likely active). Sees the nature of their aspect and is able to change it and protect themselves from it.
HEIR: Active class. Able to manipulate their aspect directly to protect themselves and attack foes. Limited (so far, canonically) by necessarily being puns.

I think that's all. Then the Mary Su- I mean, Master classes are kinda predictable, Lord is every active effect (LE uses time as a weapon in his rainbow-breath, protects himself with it in the form of his cairo coat, manipulates it directly in many ways, and so forth). Muse is presumably every passive effect.

>>68275
Bitchin' this'll come in real handy as the thread goes on.

Good night green!

>>68273
Like I said, idk what Skalds are in typical roleplaying terms. I mean, I've seen interpretations where bards are people that are capable of figuring out the magical effects of items and using magical devices, but they're musicians and poets traditionally. Perhaps a Skald of Light could bless your iron weapon into Holy Iron, for example. By singing. And hopefully also by hitting it with an hammer.

My hypothetical gamebreaking Thief of Time's would be [God Help the Outcasts] (turns time to a point before a fatal fight and steals the foe's buffs, if any), [Thief of Courage and Destiny] (the means by which she would steal from doomed timeline versions of herself and others, with the caveat that she must sheathe her weapon), [Thrice Powerful Vagabond] (she is able to steal turns from her enemies and use their own power [size] against them) and [Court of Miracles] (she summons the spirits of the Mirthful Messiahs from many timelines to rap righteous motherfucking judgement all over these sinners until they sweetly repent or hella die), obviously.

anyway broski, I'm tired as fuck and off to bed.

Okay, so, we've got the know how and the motivation, we just need to get the proverbial pencil to paper.

As far as Mythos Abilities go, I was thinking that you'd have a short list of generalized abilities for each Aspect, five or six abilities at most. when the time comes to choose one (Once every three Echeladder rungs) you pick one and you can name it and call it whatever. Say I'm working out some Breath abilities:

You can fly for [activation successes] rounds. Finesse + EL Bonus to activate, 1 MP cost.

You've got some cheap flight, and every three rungs you climb, you gain a bonus die to activation rolls. (Called the Echeladder Bonus)

>>68287
I really think mythos abilities should be dependent on class as well. Fortunately, our classes have a fairly limited scope of actual abilities. It's a given that somewhere high on each Prince's echeladder is the ability to directly channel their element as energy beams. Witches might be a ble to do a little more, but ultimately, they alter their element- Witch of Breath could poison the air, heat or cool it for varying effects and summon storms; Witch of Life can move life from one being to another, resurrect NPC's, and lengthen or shorten natural lifespans. That sort of thing. I feel making it aspect-dependent makes it like a second set of fraymotifs, which makes it rather redundant.

Certainly, an heir of breath, witch of breath, knight of breath, page of breath or possibly maid of breath could fly. Other classes, probably not. They'd have their own strengths, like the bard's ability to allow their teammates to breath foul air and be unaffected by wind or to call up large storms, or the prince's ability to punch holes in bitches using bullet-shaped gusts of air.

Well, if Fraymotifs are the ultimate in Aspect expression and your Class based mythos trait is supposedly the ultimate in Class expression, then there can be a mid-ground in between each in the Mythos Abilities.

Only problem is, you've got to make enough for each of the Class/Aspect combinations.

Each Aspect should have three domains that they'd cover, I'd feel.

Blood - Leadership, Brotherhood, Health
Breath - Wind, Animation, Movement
Doom - Death, Entropy, Bad Luck
Heart - Souls, The Self
Hope - Hope, Divinity, Light
Life - Life Force, Nature, Creation
Light - Fortune, Knowledge, Truth
Mind - Thoughts, Decisions, Communication
Rage - Anger, Strength, Madness
Space - Size, Location, Mass
Time - Past, Present, and Future
Void - Absence, Nothingness, Obfuscation

I'll admit, the time one is a bit of stretch, but, it sort of boils down to weird time shit. Combine this with the class stuff presented earlier, and we could be well on our way to making some Mythos Abilities for things

>>68296
I made a pastebin with the most likely default abilities I could come up with based on what we know of the game from Homestuck. This is comprised of two charts (might work better on a spreadsheet for display purposes), one of which has the aspect traits (not that I disagree with yours, but they were harder to incorporate with classes), and the other of which has how the classes apply to those traits, followed by an incomplete and in no way exhaustive list of descriptions for mythological roles' abilities, just to give an idea of how this would work.

http://pastebin.com/kZwrVyxw

I dunno, this all sounds too concrete for SBurb, it lacks the over powered feel that is obvious. Compared to the Time and Space Players no one else stands a chance, and even then the Page class of either would make them near impossible

>>68302
How so? Seems like all are overpowered to me, which is kind of the intention. And it's not like anyone knows what a Page actually DOES yet.

>>68302
This is a thread to make a tabletop RPG that people can actually play with their friends. It's supposed to be concrete and the classes are supposed to be balanced. It wouldn't be a good game if it wasn't.

Well, the long and short of it is, there's 144 basic combinations of Class and Aspects, and if we give them five cool powers each, that's 720 that we'd have to come up with. I've known creative guys that have trouble thinking of 150 magic cards for small custom sets.

>>68305
I think these should probably be more of a "fit your class and your aspect" basis and it's subject to peer review, since not every Mage of Life is going to be identical anyway.

But you can't deny the fact that the Space and Time players are more powerful than others; and the only way you could be of equal importance to the plot is to be a minion of the HorrorTerrors or the Guardian.

Rose was only good because she managed to be smart with her weapons alchemy; getting wizard needles that tune into the psionic powers of the Horrorterrors.

>>68313
If you're going to argue based on Homestuck itself you could at least get the story straight. As Doc Scratch pointed out plainly, Rose's needles had nothing to do with her power; It was her role as Seer of Light and her personality that allowed her to use magic, the needles being a macguffin.

Space and Time players ARE the most important to the session itself; They are the only two that will potentially get plot armour, which is why a good DM would give them harder challenges as well. However, being limited by the same mana/movement points/whatever as anyone means they aren't that much more overpowered than any other aspect.

Also, John was more important to the session itself than Rose was. Rose only became truly relevant post-scratch as Seer of Light, able to guide the group along the flares of the Green Sun, find the alpha session and guide the entire group to victory. This had nothing to do with grimdarkness, which appears to have been a phase. Kanaya, meanwhile, the trolls' Space character, ONLY appears relevant in her session because she was the one to perform the Ultimate Alchemy.

>>68314
The thing about Rose is that the magic was a distraction. She couldn't be allowed to become the Seer of Light before the Green Sun had created or she would have been capable of seeing through the deception, which is why the Horrorterrors and/or Scratch corrupted her. Just sayin'.

Whether that means Rose was 'chosen' due to her role in the great Green Sun time loop or that magic is something anyone can use, who knows. It's not like any other player (except Eridan and Damara, but those are different) ever showed any interest in the magickz. To complicate the question further, Hussie decided to teasingly avoid telling us whether Rose still has access to the magic after ascending.

Anyway, I don't think Space and Time are innately overpowered. Aradia had the power of thousands of doomed timelines, but her special circumstances were a huge part of that. The same goes for Jade, and while she did sort of set the plot in motion, ascend to a god tier First Guardian Sprite form and save everyone's arses, fellow Space player Kanaya wasn't anywhere near as important, likely due to her passive role. She might have created 'our' universe, but Karkat and/or Gamzee was/were the one(s) who gave it 'cancer' and Vriska was the one who made shit take place.

In the end, it basically boils down to whether the Space/Time players have active or passive roles, and whether or not their personalities match up.

>>68306
Agreed. Session One of an Sburb game looks to be building your worlds, mythology, who you may grow into, and eventually winning. Unless things go wrong during play. Session two may be some real world shenanigans and oh shit moments when meteors start to hit. Best to get back to work on those class based Mythos charts.

>>68317
>Best to get back to work on those class based Mythos charts.
What do you mean by this exactly?

>>68318
That I'm getting back to hammering out the second mythos stat charts you get for having a Class.

>>68319
Ah, alrighty.
>people online at the same time
What is even happening

Here's six of the twelve Class Mythos Charts

Seer
+1 MP: Every time you provide information or knowledge to your fellow players.
+3 MP: When your foreknowledge of the game benefits you or your fellow players.
+10 MP: When your knowlegde and expertise wins the day or your warnings of doom go unheaded to the detriment of others.

Knight
+1 MP: Defending one of your fellow players.
+3 MP: Taking the killing blow meant for one of your unconscious teammates.
+10 MP: Death by taking the hit meant for one or all of your fellow players or having a player die when you could have prevented.

Rogue
+1 MP: Each time you weaken someone by stealing your Aspect from them.
+3 MP: When you share your stolen Aspect with others.
+10 MP: When you would share all of the stolen Aspect with someone else using none yourself or, going so far as to give until you're sharing your own personal reserve of the Aspect.

Thief
+1 MP: Each time you weaken someone by stealing your Aspect from them.
+3 MP: Using the stolen Aspect against the one you stole it from.
+10 MP: Stealing your Aspect from fellow players when they need it most.

Bard
+1 MP: Allowing your Aspect to destroy something.
+3 MP: Destroying your Aspect in a roundabout fashion.
+10 MP: Inviting the destruction of your Aspect in such a way that it changes the very nature of your session, for better or worse.

Prince
+1 MP: Destroying something that is linked to your Aspect.
+3 MP: Channeling your Aspect in such a way that it destroys something.
+10 MP: Destroying something that is linked to your Aspect in such a way that it changes the future of your session, for better or worse.

By the Scratchin' all father. RL encroached... I'm back, I'll skim the thread and See if I can make my ersatzcoffee stoned ass useful.

Okay mage I have one thing to say on these mythos charts...

WAT?

This is oddly specific stuff, and I don't know how workable it would be if its the only source of EXP. We still get our normal character specific EXP right? or the DM hands it out? 'cause these are gonna be difficult for both players and GMs to make use of.

I mean I always viewed the game thing as a vehicle for some sort of wierd cosmic shit and that everything that happened inside was no longer part of some vast simulation, but was in fact part of some wierd cosmic reproductive device.

What kind of Sburb are we building? My cosmic shenanigans disguised as a game version? Or the fanon version that says it's a glitchy game running on phenomenal cosmic power written with buggy software?

I'm not trying to spill spaghetti everywhere I just wanna know what flavour our game is supposed to have. It'll really help me get my head in the right place for making content for this project.

So Bea or anyone else aside from the three people in here; does this look good? Can you see what's going on and more importantly, do you like it?

>>68343
It's not going to be the only source of EXP. Experience Points are handed out at the end of a session, and go towards things like improving stats and adding/altering tags your character has.

Plot points are getting removed, and instead you can spend Mythos Points to create callbacks to things that happened (Like PDA nonsense) and make facts about a scene. To compensate for the increased reliance on MP, a second Mythos Trait related to one's Class in Sburb comes into play. You act in line with the Class, you get some MP. The more you do, the more rewarding it is and the more likely you are to get used to the this and become a winner.

As for the direction, I'm working towards an as canon as possible version with a little leeway for fanon to fill in the blanks. Your stuff, however, has taken the fast track to cosmic-accidents-ville. As a developer, I'm going for a tool box approach. Your game is what you make of it and I'm just enabling the game part. That sort of thing.

>>68360
The use of the term session has been confusing me up to now.

Sessions as in, each time the group gets together to play, I'm guessing? I've been reading it as each full game in my head, which is the nomenclature used in Homestuck itself, and which doesn't make sense.

So, me or AAC be working on the other half of these MP traits, or are they already somewhere and I missed them?

>>68361
I can finish hammering them out.

As for the game session/Sburb session thing we might just have to put a note or something, or just call it a game session or Sburb session or something

>>68360
Okay cool, noted, I'm just mildly worried because these seem oddly specific. Anyway they'll do I guess? Eh, I'll just fiddle with them when It comes to making my own game.

As for the Term Session, I'm pretty sure it means each time you and your players get together to play and not the whole campaign in general but what ev's.

As for cosmi-accidents-'ville You know what most engineers do before they declare a project ready for production? They stress test it, they imagine every possible scenario where things can go wrong. So that's what I'm doing, I'm stress testing the concepts of cosmic accidents.

A session where things go mostly right and fuck-ups are caused solely by human error would be refreshing in its own right though.

Anyway as for abilities I favor a spreadsheet approach, basic descriptions of what each class and aspect can do, cross referenced on a grid with suggestion as to what a player should pick for his Mythos Abilities.

==>

Anyway among thing's I've noted in the glitch tables. (One Of these days Imma have to take a chisel to those...) is the Hazard condition, which I rolled up for my Instance of Sburb. What this means to me is that the world is inherently dangerous and will apply a -1 to -3 penalty to players dependent on where they are, or in the case of LOFAR may flat out kill them if they don't have the proper equipment. (LOFAR is an underwater world.) I figure without skaia's prtective influence the void would be ice cold so the kids would need physical protection, which isn't a problem they can just make outfits for Underwater, The Cold of Deepspace and their own environmental conditions.

Also another thing Imma end up doing is examining just how a bunch of Kid's could escape their session without scratching it and crashing into either another universe or session. But that's a long term goal.

In the meantime I think we should hammer out classes and aspects and the special conditions that require special equipment.

>>68368
What about aspects and classes would we need to hammer out, specifically? If anything, those are the weakest things, since we're working on theory and guessing.

Hazardous places would probably be fixed up with some cheap ass tier 1 alchemical clothing or may even be negligible, since most old computer RPGs let you wander in the weirdest places in naught but your breastplate and chainmail as long as you had someone to keep your health up.

>>68368
Speaking of scratching, how are we handling that? It's a definite feature, and fuckups, possibly extreme ones (like a time or space player offing themselves), are bond to happen and it seems lame to say "LOL IT'S NOT THE ALPHA TIMELINE" in the confines of an actual game.

Perhaps we should roll for a group of ancestors at the beginning of the game as well, and if a group scratches their session they start over as their ancestors, with new starting equipment or circumstances based on the now-scratched characters' (who have become the ancestors' ancestors) accomplishments?

As far as aspects and classes go, and things we haven't already gone through, what do we have to do exactly? It doesn't seem like Sburb is very limiting to what classes can or cannot equip for example. John is an Heir (seemingly a lightweight sort of class) of Breath (definitely a lightweight aspect) and uses hammers, specifically later on warhammers. For the most part what we have thus far is that the player can do whatever but is only rewarded (much) for playing in the confines of their class's roles, and has various abilities/superpowers based on class and aspect. And Pages/Boy Skylarks dress up as Robin and do nothing.

>>68375
Jade was in a light dress in the snow and Dave in thick suits on metal gears spinning over lava. I'd say the environment itself, aside from very non-negotiable circumstances (like an underwater world) are, indeed, not a very big deal, if even applicable at all. Could be argued that's not canon but a stylistic choice on Hussie's part, though.

Well on the glitch chart there's "Hazardous planets" or something to that effect. I figure normally Sburb maintains a certain temperture within the incipisphere and projects a field around a PC for a limited time if they venture into the void (players with the right aspects can just laugh off the cold and lack of air due to their abilities) and that it makes use of stuff like that most of the time.

But in a Hazardous session someone's taken the Environmental dial and cranked it all the way up to "SURVIVAL SIMULATION" so you need stuff like diving suits and and antirad cloth and other stuff. I figure normally the game would provide you with a magical airbubble when going under waterbut for whatever reasonb that's not allowed in my session.

But yeah Teir 1 alchemy would solve it and maybe make for suits that give bonuses while fighting underwater and in space and stuff.

As for the classes just hammer out the last six mage and we can work on a what comes next when you're done with that.

Here's the last of those Class Mythos charts.

Sylph
+1 MP: By helping others heal by way of your Aspect.
+3 MP: Healing someone from an incapacitated state.
+10 MP: Whenever you can heal someone from near death or someone dies while in you care.

Witch
+1 MP: Changing or manipulating your Aspect.
+3 MP: Changing or manipulating your Aspect in such a way that causes you to win the day.
+10 MP: Changing or manipulating your Aspect on such a grand scale that it changes the nature of your game, for better or worse.

Maid
+1 MP: Providing your Aspect to others.
+3 MP: Providing your Aspect to others in such a way that it allows them to win a struggle thanks to your support.
+10 MP: Whenever your assistance, or lack thereof, is bound to be game changing in its scope.

Page
+1 MP: When you use your Aspect to support others.
+3 MP: When you use your Aspect to support others in such a way, they profit from your support.
+10 MP: When your support would allow others to live or die because of your action or inaction.

Mage
+1 MP: Whenever you’re able to assess the presence of your Aspect and its nature.
+3 MP: Whenever you’re able to protect yourself from your Aspect by manipulating it..
+10 MP: Whenever you’d be able to avoid death that would somehow be related to your Aspect or die in a way related to your Aspect.

Heir
+1 MP: Manipulating your Aspect directly and causing it to visibly manifest.
+3 MP: When you would be able to solve some problem by applying your Aspect directly.
+10 MP: When you manifest your Aspect to solve a problem of epic proportions and it either works or is the death of you.

Okay good we have our basic classes, we can worry about stuff like expansions and shit.

What we need to do now is come up with a set of s9olid rules for time duplicates, healing, death-via-princely-destructo-beam and other stuff like that.

Once we have those rules, the rules for all the abilities we'll use in the playtest, we can make a spread sheet and say "yo, look at the spread sheet, look at the rules, act accordingly." We'll just use our "1 ability every 3 echeladder rungs" dealy and let them figure out what ability they want to take from their class+aspect combo and let them assign it.

We just need solid, concrete gameplay rules on who gets what and how it works and we can go from there.

Okay.
Weird time shit. We can totally nail this down tonight.
When you travel forward or backwards in time, you've got to do a time loop, which means you've eventually got to go back to where you started, keeping things consistent in the alpha line.. If you don't, you cause a doomed timeline. Think Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban. You've got that time turner thing to go back in time and you can do shit over at points B through E, but you've got to be back at point A when you're done otherwise you've got some ill defined consequences because Rowling only builds what she needs to get by story wise.

In our case, you've got doomed timelines when you fail to do what your supposed to do, predestination and all that. If you're in a doomed line, shits going to get weird and likely end with your death somehow. Someone can probably explain this better than I can, as my specialties lie more towards the anatomical and less the theoretical physics end of the spectrum.

Bonus stuff: http://gobletofsickfires.tumblr.com/tagged/get+on+with+it/chrono Fun little crossover with Harry Potter.

Oh christ Mage. I cannot STAND Harry Potter. A big part of it is that I wear glasses, have brown hair, and read a lot.... I read the books and quit halfway. It started out as a chioldren's book and got increasingly dark and then I wa just like... "Well fuck harry, why don't you just buy, enchant and then shoot voldemort with your magic gun?" So yeah...

Eh, anyway fuck it. As far as time travel shit goes you have to build a stable timeloop. I want you to stop for a moment and imagine a big ball of yarn, got? Great that yarn is time. All those touching pieces of yarn? Stable timelines. You wanna byuild a stable timeloop when time traveling, otherwise you may find yourself trapped in an alternate timeline. Remember the yarn thing? Well all the timelines are bunched up together, The closest timelines to yours will usually be ROCKS FALL, EVERYONE DIES timelines so finding yourself in an alternate timeline is usually bad.

==>

You dislike of JK Rowling's writing not withstanding your example of stable time loops is perfect.

You start with action A, you carry out actions B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, and K, but at the end you have to tie up your actions at A, otrherwise you've created a Divergent timeline, and Sburb HATES Divergent timelines. For Whatever reason the game punishes flippant time travel by murdering the time traveler so lets build an example here.

Hussie did this first, but fuck it, it's too brilliant a plan not to emulate.

Ozz Bright has the Land of Demons and Deserts, on LODAD there is a Stock Exchange in the City of Pandemonium, his Session's Bard of Beat can travel through time via a Time-Amp device controlled by his guitar. So the team Hatches a Plan to exploit the Stock Exchange on LODAD. So one day, all of a sudden, an obelisk made of black stone appears in front of the Stock Exchange, written on it in a secret code are instructions to exploit the stocks.

==>

Jean Questron, Bard of Beat, sends instructions from the future to his past self in a language only he can recognize. blah, blah, blah you know what happens he and several alternate versions of himself make a killing on the stock exchange, eventually the Alchemize a stone obelisk, laser on the instructions and send it into the past. So you can start a Time Loop off by by using a future action (cleared with the DM) a present action, or even make a call back to a seemingly insignificant event that happened in the past.

I think that about covers stable time loops. Now we just need time clones and rulls for slow down and fast forward.

Ever play prince of Persia sands of time? We can give time players a reroll power that works like that.

Sorry I disappeared, guys. Playing a text based game, then helping gf with her homework, then dissecting Eternity's Shylock in reverse against [S] Caliborn: Enter. When Cal's spiral fils in and pulses, there's a short static hiss with each pulse. When the end of act clocks show up, you can hear them tick. When his sarcophagus flies through space, the music is almost silent, but as soon as he enters the atmosphere it goes apeshit. Toward the end, when Bec Noir is about to show up, you can hear cards being shuffled, and it becomes more pronounced and is accompanied by the cards being tamped or thumped together between each shuffle as he's actually shown, then abruptly stops when he goes offscreen. Also some parts of it are other parts when played in reverse. +200 respect for Malcolm Brown.

>>68384
You don't know this about me, but the theoretical mechanics of weird time shit, in or out of homestuck, is a personal favourite subject of mine. Real reason my gamebreaking character was a thief of time and not a prince of void or something.

For an in-universe example, look to Vriska. She's shown that she isn't as powerful as Mindfang- Likely the only reason she even realised she had psionic powers, being a blueblood, was trying very hard to be like her ancestor. She has also shown she isn't as good at being a chessmaster as Terezi. Therefore, she likely didn't plan to have Bec attack their session all along. However, as soon as they found out about another session in the universe they had created (via Terezi being a much better chessmaster than she) and she started looking into it, she found out about Bec and began the process of engineering for Bec Noir to be created and making her teammates and the kids guide him to their session. This was all so that she could redeem herself in th eyes of her teammates now that her lusus no longer pressured her to kill young trolls- She saw that Bec was there, so she decided that she both had to be the reason for his existence and his demise. So she engineered weird time shit by carefully making events converge to a point where Bec broke into her universe and caused her to know about him so she could do all this, so she could then kill him. But she fucked up, and Terezi stopped her before she got everybody killed with her pixie farts.

A simpler example is Terezi telling Dave to amass 413 billion (or was it trillion?) boonbucks or whatever to send to her so she'd have a reason to have sollux trace the funds and find Dave in the first place. She'd already gotten the funds, so to make sure that the Dave she was talking to wasn't in a doomed universe, she had to make him route the funds to her so they could be talking in the first place.

On the other hand, take the example of my Thief of Time. She expended 2MP per turn to go back a turn when she had only 3MP and was then able to steal just enough MP from the opponent to do it again (at a cost of 1MP). Thus, she was unable to form stable time loops in combat (intentionally): Every time she went back she was able to add her attack in time with the past-hers, so that what an enemy would see would be suddenly dozens of Thieves of Time attacking it in one turn; However, each past-self lacked the MP to go back again, so they became doomed. As one anon aptly likened it, the doomed selves were being used like spent bullets. Soon after, they would necessarily die because Sburb applied the doomed status to them, but the "real" (or alpha) thief would persist indefinitely.

Weird time shit is fun. Also, arguably a balancing factour if you play an Hero of Time.

>>68388
Time clones should have some kind of inherent risk, such as any past (on the alpha timeline) clone dooming all clones afterward and causing an hit to experience or something. Otherwise it's too exploitable, even with the limitation of some kind of point expenditure. That would force a time character to use their clones carefully and only take on large challenges one self at a time. The exception would be things like Aradia, or even my Thief, where they just don't give a fuck because those clones are all doomed anyway. As a further limitation, don't let doomed clones participate in combat, or have a one-hit-then-they-die rule wherein the first time they hit something they fuck up and dislocate their brain stem or something, and the first time they're hit it snaps a rib into their heart. You know, general the universe wants you dead stuff. Otherwise, let clones added during a given turn be added to the results of the previous turn before each subsequent turn is played. In other words-

>Greene puts 100 boondollars into LOLAM stocks
>the next turn, she sells those stocks for 110 boondollars, and goes back in time one turn, knowing she gets 10% interest in that turn, and puts the 110 boondollars in the same stock
>when the turn ends she has 121 boondollars in stocks, and by the next turn has 132
>she travels back two turns, puts the 132 in the same stock, and by the end of the current turn has 159 boondollars in stocks, hacing made 59% interest in two turns instead of 21% as she normally would

I think that ABOUT covers timeclones without making them too gamebreaky. I have a vague idea of how to handle [perceived time]:[real time] matchups, but it's not exactly my area of expertise.

>>68392
Hey RL comes first...

Lets not get too...in detail with this. For any Time Travel Shenanigans you'll have to Alchemtize a Time Travel device (probably a quest item+something you like, like turn tables or amps or whatever.) and then you and the DM agree on a rough course of action and he deals with whatever rolls you have to make and what occurs afterwards.

As for clones? I'd say conservation of ninjutsu, one clone is 1/3rd as powerful as you with their stats decreasing with each instance of a clone version of you. We'll just assume that unless the GM feels like modifying the rules that things are tuned down somewhat in this timeline in concern to powers and abilities.

And the two-man circlejerk goes on.

>>68399
It'd be less of that if it was more than these two guys and I working on it.

"Heroes of time do require objects that enable such things, usually a quest item and something related to music. This quest is completed mid-echeladder and is a side quest from their main one. You take the item and Alchemize it with something that can keep a beat or is music related (Ex. the music boxes or the turntables). This new item allows you to go backwards or forwards in time.

Now, time travel is tricky. Sburb doesn't like it when people deviate from the Alpha Time Line and if you do it without creating a time loop, you make a doomed timeline that will eventually kill you. To make a time loop, you need to do a little work. The point you leave the Alpha Time Line is called Point A. For every action you desire, you create even more Points and you can only have a number of Points equal to your Echeladder rank plus 1.

Eventually, you have to get back to Point A. Say our Rank 4 Hero of Time decides to do a little item duping with this. He travels back to Point B, where he found the item and places his own down, making two. He then repeats his actions a third, fourth, and fifth time for five of that thing, each drop off creating more and more of that item. He can do it a sixth time, but doing it would create a doomed time line and eventually kill our Hero of Time and everyone else in that time line. But, instead of doing it a sixth time, he just loops it back to point A where he has acquired 32 instances of the item. Not a bad haul for a little duping."

How does this look for some semi-official rules?

>>68401
Looks decent. Putting it in practical turns with stocks again, in five points, Greene would make (assuming a constant 10% climb in stocks for simplicity's sake, say, each turn she moves her stocks to one that she knows makes 10% interest that turn) 317 boondollars (subtracting the initial 100 boondollar investment; 317 is the profit, 417 is what she'd have be the end), though this would be (assuming she was a seer of light instead of a thief of time and knew what the stocks would be ahead of time) really just the equivalent of 15 turns of investing in 10% interest stocks, finished in five turns.

Of course, supply and demand are important and when you get high enough up you could control the prices of the stocks themselves and make much more than 10% interest per turn.

The formula to find this is
(x * 1.1^y) - x = z
where x is the initial investment, and y is the current number of turns added to each lesser whole number (I forget the word for this but if it's three turns, it's 3+2+1=6, or if it's five (as in this case) it's 5+4+3+2+1=15). z, obviously, is the profit, and this assumes a 10% interest per turn and is only a model.

>>68406
I could probably whip up a sort of d144 chart (similar to the d66 one, only with more results) for random title things. We like random charts, right? Especially ones with obscure dice rolling. In a sort of madlibs way you could deduce what you can do with it by just rolling and consulting.

Like say I get Knight of Void. I defend others using Void as a weapon. Simple and inspirational on what sort of Mythos Powers you can come up with. Time and Space would likely be the last 12 results for everyone, because that shit is a lot of responsibility.

>>68411
>>68406
I like random charts and numbers. We already have random lands so being able to generate random heroes would be pretty cool..I should make a hero who uses Tron style equipment... DiskKind. heh.

anyway I think those are excellent rules for time travel and a good example of playing the stocks. We have rules for building our time travel device, so We're done with time travel at least. Now we need to get crazy space shit done.

Anyway yeah, we need a random hero table for an arkham horror style game. We should get some concept art of each of the classes and at some point we can build a system of cards, or fuck just more random events via dice chart for the game.

So far so good gents, lets keep the homebrew train arollin!

http://pastebin.com/MRjTDWid
CHHHHART.

As far as crazy space shit, you only really have points in the incipishere that you can poof too. Altering size is pretty much turning something from [Big] to [Really][Really][Big], man. Normal people are [Medium], things bigger than someone are varying degrees of [Big]. Something [Really][Big] is bigger than just [Big] and something [Really][Small] is smaller than something that's [Small]. You obviously can't be [Really][Medium], because that's just silly.

In other news, I'm brainstorming up a guide for custom classes and aspects.

AW YEAH! A CHART!

Lemme get my d12...

7...
Oooh. A Prince!


3...
Of Hope. AW YEAH!



Well anyway A guide for making custome classes and aspects should just be a basic "Use these rules Brah."
This chart is gonna make for a metric fuckton of fun.

So we have a chart, and we have our rules for Space and doing wierd shit with it. Beat/Rhyme can be applied to Time (with a more Rhythmic feel to it...) Void should pretty much be using the Abyss as a gateway and maybe building a stronghold there with your GM's permission. Aside from that I don't think there's much in the way of "Crazy Shit" that needs to be covered, not for the Playtest anyway.

Maybe we should cover homes and their use as a base and scenarios like Denizens and underlings? Also rules for exploring wierd environments like the Labstertoid ring. ("beyond the final ring" refers to all those Labsteroids which are strung in a ring at the edge of the incipisphere before it gives way to the abyss.) Or I dunno underwater worlds crazy shit like that.

>>68414
>concept art
>recolouring the pictures from the wiki and giving them faces
hehe.

>>68420
>You obviously can't be [Really][Medium], because that's just silly.
That's not how you think with portals, man. If you've got a [medium] person on a [really][big] planet holding a [small] machine gun, and they shrink everything two sizes so it's a [really][really][small] gun, [really][small] person and [medium] planet (huehue), have they actually done anything without another point of reference? What IS size? Baby don't shrink me, don't shrink me no more

And this guide, is it for creating new custom classes and aspects, or is it merely a list? If the former, keep in mind the following:
>Classes come in active/passive pairs, though they are not necessarily both (each member of the pair) represented in a single session
>Active classes aid their user, and are generally the front lines, so to speak, those that go forth and conquer
>Passive classes aid teammates and are more partners to their active counterparts
Everything else is fairly self-explanatory, but those details are important in that they've been pointed out in canon but aren't inherently obvious.

So, you can't find the right class for your character? Well, then you can just make your own by following this little guide.

Before you get to making your own name for a Class, first start off with coming what it does. This is as simple as coming up with its Verb. A class simply uses and channels an Aspect in some way. A Prince Destroys, a Knight Defends, and a Maid Serves. This gives one a idea of what a Class does in terms of its abilities. One can add on to it some more to get more specific modifiers, such as the Knight who Defends by using their Aspect as a weapon.

With that down, determine if a Class is Active or Passive. A Passive Class is one that assists the team, often delegated supportive roles, such as healer or the one who buffs everyone and debuffs the monsters, to borrow some MMO jargon. Example Passive Classes are the Seer, Bard, and Sylph. An Active Class is often one that is more direct and too the point, often being in it just for themselves. Active Classes are often the warriors, thieves, and others who benefit only themselves based on their Aspects. Example Active Classes include Prince, Thief, and Witch.

Next up, consider the Classes exclusivity. Would the Class go with just males, just females, a preference toward one gender over the other, or a preference to neither gender. This influences its name more than what the Class does.

Finally, you name the Class. This name is evocative of some fantasy archetype, like the Mage or the Seer. Such names are often one syllable and not very indicative of what the class does.

Additional Aspects are little less tricky. First, you need to decide what an Aspect covers, as an Aspect is representative of forces of the universe. Pick three thematic elements which can be as out there or as concrete as you like, they only need to be linked together somehow. Once you've got that, you can name the Aspect, though sometimes the name is misleading. For example, Say I'm working on an Aspect that covers Illusions, Trickery, and Transformation. I decide to go with the name Moon, due to the connections of similar themes. Heroes of Moon are often clever and tricky, often wearing the the symbol of the phases of the moon on their grey, black, and silver god tier clothes.

Okay following Mage's lead Lets take a custom class I brewed up for a character of mine. The Ranger, The Ranger is a class that's all about Versatility and Movement, Adapting to your environment and making the best use of it. To follow the 144 chart example.

I travel using [Aspect] and I defend myself by using [Aspect].

Rangers vary in their approach to this, they can be showy brawlers or gunslingers who use their aspect to their advantage or they can be a cunning and flighty advesary that never strikes at an enemy head on.

Byron Green is a Ranger of Void so he'd use void portals to travel and even as a defensive mechanism. (For instance opening up a void portal in front of an enemy and sending his own attack back at him.)

Obviously this is an Active Class since the Ranger uses his abilities to empower himself. Anyway.

Okay we have custom classes nailed down and we can assume GMs will moderate player built classes. We have a chart for random heroes.

==>

We also got rules for custom aspects (which could be fun but lets leave that can of grubsauce closed) Should we just work on some random charts that woul take the place of cards in an arkham horror style of game? Or should we keep at the rules of our Pen&Paper Sburb?

we got combat and some character building covered, Crazy Space and Time shit, Void basically boils down to "Portals through the Abyss" and space means fuck all there so we don't need to confront that much yet. (unless we do I guess. -shrugs-)

aside from space/time/void antics what else needs hammering?

>>68435
Speaking of hammering, have we done much/anything about weapons yet?

>>68439
*weapon types specifically

Like, hammerkind. Or bowkind, or pistolkind.

I'd personally prefer to leave the Arkham Horror to the professionals. Touching a game I'm not familiar with and homebrewing something for it sounds like a disaster.

Weapons could be handled similar to Shadowrun or World of Darkness with the kid gloves off. You hit with something, it does a flat amount of damage + whatever your net hits on the attack roll are. Weapons should range in damage rating from 0 to 3, 0 being weapons like fists and most small things like knives, 1 is like a baseball bat or a dinky gun, 2 is a sharp one handed sword or a medium sized rifle or powerful handgun, and 3 is in the range of automatic weapons and fuck-off huge swords. Average characters could probably take one or two hits from a rating 3 weapon, but that's sort of the point of not messing with the dude who's got a machine gun or a big ol' claymore.

It's simple and gets the job done pretty well, I feel.

>>68442
And otherwise your strife portfolio and specebi would basically just be a limitation on what you could wield?

>>68442
>>68443
That sounds about right, 0 means it's got a flat 1d6 damage rating and 3 means it does 4d6 damage. each increase in rank adds a d6 to your flat damage rating plus whatever wierd shit your weapon does.

Your strife specibus, methinks should be limited to at most, 3 different weapons, those are the weapons you get to use. Anything more than that should require a large amount of MP to buy a new Strife Card for your Strife Specibus.

Anyway as for cool shit, lets say I take Ozz, my knight of hope and round out his Pistol/Riflekind with Sword Kind. At the higher tiers I'd give him Polymorphical guns that can turn into rings and just have him wear the guns on his fingers. (Maybe include some rings that act as a source of ammo...) That way I could give him ten or so guns, on demand.

Anyway, so uh, 3 strife specibus maximum at start?

>>68446
Three sounds good. And technically, anything can be used in a Strife, even the rare and difficult to master fncysantakind.

What if I wanted to plat as a race aside from humans and trolls, say like the Navi? Could I play TreeTrapped?

We covered the race thing in thread 2, yeah you can play as kobolds or navi or catpeople or whatever, you just spend 1 MP on each trait require the play that race. in the case of trolls [X-Blood] X being your blood color, and [Psychic] if you have any psionic powers or [Psi-Resistant] if you're a blueblood with no psi powers. So yeah TreeTrapped is totally a thing that you can do.

Movbing on, we've established shadowrun style weapon ratings (probably with a flat damage bonus for your rating) and that you get 3 Strife Specibi cards at start. (you can use anything, no matter how crazy or pointless.) We have charts for both hero generation, and duo FrayMotifs. (AW YEAH! CHARTS!)

I think we need to hammer out some basic rules for fraymotifs, they're basically just special attacks from games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy so we can set up the more powerful FrayMotifs with Limit Break style conditions and the weaker ones can just be used willie nilly.

how's that sound?

Flavour of the day is personal crisis. At least I have a wonderful and supportive girlfriend to keep me from doing anything stupid.

>>68461
So Xkind can be pretty much anything, from Stringkind to bncyballkind, is what you're saying?

>>68474
sounds neat to me, but why not just take the current effects and ramp them up for the limit break moves?

>BouncyBallKind
Oh. God. I have to use that.

I think we agreed to just let GMs help players use a tag system to come up with FrayMotifs on the spot.

Okay basically we know what classes do and we know what aspects do. Lets say Ozz hits Mid Level These days he uses's [Polymorphical] Rings which turn into his guns, mildly expensive but useful, he pairs up each ring with an ammunition ring which can hold rounds for his guns.

Now lets say his Limit Break FrayMotif is [Incandescent Polytechnical Inferno] The Dm judges the threat level of the enemy, and determines what constitutes a success on Ozz's Dice Rolls. Ozz Rolls His Echeladder Rank, For Each Success Ozz Rolls he deals Weapon Damage, with a flat bonus equal to his Echeladder rank.

Whatcha think too crunchy or OP?

>>68477
Problem with these hypotheticals is that I'm not sure what the enemies look like healthwise. Is it in the doc?

Not really no.

I dummied up some enemies but I can't examine the googledoc without my PS3 crashing. (What a TWEEEEST!)

anyway I don't think we confronted HP crunchwise but we did assume that boss characters have 3 times the health of PCs and that imps have 1/4th to 1/2 the health of PCs.

I'm thinking a base of 12 HP with +6 HP for each point of body with +12 hp for the [tough] trait. each echeladder rank adds +3 HP plus you roll your body dice and add the sum total of your roll to your HP methinks.

Whatcha think Mage, Green?

>>68480
Sounds alright to me. Makes the more powerful skill so far at high levels and with high body oneshot small monsters but still require some working with bigger ones. I think I'd give bosses more than twice the PC's HP though, unless "boss" means ogre and not denizen. I'd give the denizen probably something more like [spoiler]fifteen times PC HP, and the black king/queen 30 times total HP between all PC's and a fucktonne of resistances based on prototypes, to ensure single player victory over one would be pretty much impossible.

heh, I was bored last night so I diassembled some busted PS3 controllers I have on hand (shitty 3rd party stuff, cheaper to buy new ones rather than get them fixed.) anyway it made me wonder what would happened if you prototyped a box of electronic junk (old computer parts, controller parts, butsed game systems etc. etc.) with your sprite...god help you if you use an NES controller.


uh....where was I? Oh Right.

You're SUPPOSED to defeat the black king and queen (or white king and queen in an inverse session...bizzaro session?) they're the final boss. But you're also supposed to have a chessmen army, god tier powers and other cool stuff like that. (maybe even a helicarrier if you're as obsessed with cool bases as I am.) So I think 10 to 15 times is the appropiate level of health for the king and queen. What ev's GM fiat right?

>>68482
I figure "challenging for the players of the session as an entire group" is what the boss should be. 15 times the health of every player combined doesn't seem like that much really, but maybe I'm thinking too much in terms of singleplayer videogames, where 15 times your character's health makes for a meh-tier boss that goes down easily with late-game abilities. Like the equivalent of taking on fifteen to thirty bandits, it may take a little more firepower than your average whatever enemy, but not really.

As for the prototyping, itd depend on what kinda electronics there are. Network cards would give the fuckers telepathy, RAM cards and CPU's would make them faster and smarter, controller or calculator or keyboard cards would give them better reflexes and so on, I'd imagine. And they'd gain a [robotic] tag. Unless you mean the fate of the sprite, not the kernel, in which case it would combine with whatever dead thing you prototyped t- wait do dead electronics count for kernelsprite necromancy

Eh it varies, at 30 times all the player health combined I'd definetly want to confront the black king with a helicarrier at my back, or at least a quinjet for backup. but I'm a "thinking with portals" kind of guy so I naturally want to build big shooty guns to do my fighting for me.

as for the kernal spriteI'd include the casing of the controllers as well as the metal CPU and other stuff like that so they'd definetly get an armor bonus. Lets see, asorted computer parts, old busted game systems that can't be fixed, dead controllers and joysticks, around 50 pounds or so of plastic, silicon and rare earth metals... yeah I guess this would be necromancy of a sort. I'd probably wind up with a chart to see what abilities each imp, ogre, and what not would have. "Resistance is futile!" old game cartridges that are too glitched to play might make this even more interesting.

We could simply do a single die roll on the duo motif tables, saves time and energy.

As for aliens, you drop some character points on some 1 point tags, and you've got an alien. Shouldn't come up though, unless aliens are going to be a thing in your session.

HP was going to be something like (Body x 2) + 2 for [tough] like tags. An increased HP might work better with multiple baddies. I guess I'm just used to designing lethal games.

Bosses and enemies would probably get additional points of HP with each subsequent prototyping, the game getting bigger and badder as you get more people in. The King and Queen get some nasty huge health, but you've got an entire session of Sburb to get things prepped. Hopefully.

Anyway, I'm thinking about getting an alpha playtesting document prepared for this bad boy, unless we've got a few more things to work out.

I like my health table more. This is based on old school RPGs remember? The best ones always gave you the damage resistance of a refridgerator. Lethal games seem way moreWoD than Sburb. But what ev's, It's something we can hammer out.

I prefer the idea of building Fraymotifs from the ground up but fuck it we can just roll once or choose from a selection on the duo fraymotif charts.

I can't really think of any outstanding stuff at the moment. I mean there's the portals and the house and other elements like that but they'r tangetial at the moment, we need to test the crunch of the game.

So how're we doin Playtest wise? Do we need to hammer anything out? I think we're good to go personally.

>>68491
Isn't there a diagramme of how the portals worked? I assume we can just adapt that to the same pattern for however many players/planets there are, and worry about describing it later. There's Denizens, but they're very variable story elements covered partially in the doc anyway I think. And legendary weapons, same deal really though they may deserve a mention (Dave gets Calydbolg or whatever the Welsh name for Excalibur is, which becomes Caledscratch, Rose gets Echidna's needles, John gets the Warhammer of Zillyhoo/Fear No Anvil/Pop-a-Matic Vrillyhoo Hammer (any of which is arguably his legendary weapon), Vriska has the Fluorite Octet, Eridan has Ahab's Crosshairs and so on.

But as far as actual mechanics go, I can't think of anything else.

It's called Caledfwitch or switch..? its an -itch sound. I'd forgotten about the god tier items huh cool.

I need to work on a character who uses bounyballkind now. boingoingoing!

>>68505
Caledfwlch.
Pronounced kahl-ed-foolch
ch being a soft k, like Bach.

>>68505
Caledfwlch, I think that's it. Caledbolg would be excalibur, I think, and Caled means sword? Man fuck welsh. Shits worse than gaelic.

I looked up the gates on the wiki, apparently there's seven gates to each session, because, as Vriska tells Tavros, his seventh gate will take him to his Denizen. However, his second gate DOES lead him to Vriska's hive, which is not consistent with an even distribution of seven gates among the twelve planets, so it seems likely that either Vriska was pulling the number seven out of her arse and this happened to be spot-on for the humans, sessions with more than four players only see the server chain three people behind them, or Hussie slipped up in an aspect of Hoimestuck.

For the sake of sticking to what we seem to know of canon, let's say the main seven gates lead to your server, your server's server, their server, and then back to your planet's denizen, and beyond those three co-players you wouldn't see your fellows until you got to the second (post-denizen, Derse vs Prospit) phase of the game, or started wrecking shit like Rose, or Godtiered and wound up on the Battlefield, or just whatever to escape the Gate loop. With less than four players, you would end up back on your planet with extra gates at least once, and with only two players you'd be on both planets twice before your Denizen, but that should still be workable. (Would it even be feasible for a game that wasn't incredibly gay though?)

So there's that settled if there's no objections. I could try drawing a diagramme, but I'm away from home and don't have a mouse.

>>68505
Also worth noting that strife specibi have an 8 character limit, not including the -kind suffix.

>>68509
arbitrary character limits suck bouncy balls. bncyball-kind I guess?

The seven gate thing sounds about right. but We have an Inverse session where you have to defeat the white king as a thing so if we feel like it we can just say the gates are glitched or that we have the gate patch.

"how the fuck can you play sburb without the gate patch?"

I think patches should become a thing for the sburb RPG...

>>68509
I typed it as bncyballkind initially. Throwing that out there.

>>68504
Ultimate weapons like the flourite and the crosshairs would be tier 5+ weapons, nigh unique and possibly requiring lengthy crafting shenanigans.

Portals would likely just teleport you to the next quest area after you build up to the first one. It's a GM sort of thing, really.

>>68513
There's a specific existent structure for the Gates either way. The first gate is above the house and leads to somewhere on the planet itself, the second leads to your server player's house, the third is above their house and leads to their planet, where the fourth leads to their server, and so on, until you get to the seventh far above your entry point which leads to your Denizen, which is the halfway boss fight of course.

Gates CAN malfunction. Just Sayain,

Okay so we have a basic gate structure, and we can assume that gates are generated by Sburb and therefore designed to take you where the game thinks you need to be.

We can also assume that players can alchemtize things like jet packs, jet boots, jet-fucking-unicycles... I'm partial to a jet-motorcycle myself but whatever. Anyway there's a lot of ways for players to get around and since sburb sessions are so inherently glitchy we can assume that gates can be all over the place they an be on your planet, they can be in the incipisphere they can be under-fucking-ground. It's all just a matter of what suits your session.

like mage said, GM thing. Personally I'd come up with an excuse for the kids to adventure together but that's just me.

so how long, in terms of fictional time should a session be? Months? weeks? years? days?

I'm leaning towards years.

Session length, ideally, is anywhere from weeks to months if you feel like being the little completion or are slow. Think of it as a 80 hour RPG that you live through. In Homestuck, the kids had a matter of days to get things rolling, or roughly a week, as their session had a rather nasty case of cancer. So, unless there's some complications, things should go smoothly for non-cancerous sessions.

I think. Its been a while and the cancer could just be a bomb designed to eliminate sessions that won't bear universal fruit. So, keep an eye out for a beat mesa equivalent.

>>68528
The Tumor is a bomb, which in the trolls' case was indeed seemingly made to destroy an unfruitful session, and which Meenah utilised to blow her team up so they wouldn't get scratched, being dead and in the dream bubbles; While in the kids' cancerous session it was actually designed to create the Green Sun. The cancer, on the other hand, seems to specifically relate to the Red Miles and Jack Noir.

>>68528
Actually, everything that happened before the Scratch took place in just a little more than 24 hours.

Karkat said his session took a month, and their session was basically a speed run. They made good time but skipped a lot of shit because they didn't care. Meenah's session took 3 years before they gave up but I think it was kind of implied that they spent most of that time trying and failing to advance past a certain point. A normal session probably takes a few months.

I don't think you guys should worry about the tumors when making a game like this because
a) it was stated that the tumor was an anomaly in the story
b) its presence dooms the session, because it is a bomb, so failure is a sure thing in a session containing a tumor
c) therefore the GM would have to be a huge player-killing asshole to put it in

Even if Homestuck relies on predetermination and time loops that isn't really feasible for a tabletop game. The players need to be able to make choices and introducing a game element that basically tells them that they can no longer win because the GM says so is not good.

>>68533
>>68531
Noted, a session should be anywhere from a few months to a year at maximum. Thanks for the quality posts by the way.
>>68527
Neat! have some Mok lips.
>>68528
Alright we've established session length, gates and just about everything else. It looks like we just need a logo, some clip art, and a bit of organization and some parsing. Also a confusion chart.

1: Use an Item on a target of your choice
2: Use an ability, GMs choice
3: Use an item, GMs choice
4:Attack an ally, GMs choice
5: Do nothing this round
6: Attack an enemy of your choice

Which I just provided you with. Discuss?

>>68533
Well had it not actually been the catalyst for the green sun, the kids' session would have managed it, albeit at the cost of its Derse dreamers. Its been a while since I've thoroughly read that part, but I seem to recall that Doc was lying about the Tumor and it's in every session in order to clear everything out after the Reckoning is over anyway. Might be wrong though.

>>68535
Doc Scratch only lies by omission, if he said directly that most sessions don't have tumors then... they don't have tumors. That's beside my point though. The point being that regardless of whether John's tumor was unique or if it's a feature of all failed sessions, it's not a feature that should be built into a tabletop RPG because that would be cheap and dumb.

>>68535
I doubt it. The Tumor is powered by the end of two universes and most sessions won't have two universes available to power what's essentially a cosmic garbage collector. The theory that had The Tumor filling that purpose was basically speculation on Rose's part before she was in a position to comprehend what they were really doing.

>>68537
>>68538
For the sake of ease we'll assume that only Total Party Kill GMs will place tumors in their games. (another thing that fits hussie's personality methinks.) So no tumors will appear in the Sburb Tabletop session. (unless your GM is a dick.) Thanks for the input by the way!

Is there anything else we need to cover?

God tier crunch maybe? So far we've cornered First Guardians, Denizens, Horrorterrors, and Quest Beds as sources of God Tier levels of power. Should we expand on that?

>>68538
Meenah was shown to have the Tumor, it set off a [relatively] much smaller explosion that killed her and her fellows.

>>68540
Forgot about godtiers. Too lazy to work on it just now though.

I believe I nailed down God Tier ascension as +2 to all three of your stats, successes on a roll are now 4, 5, and 6, and your Mythos Powers get cranked up to 11.

Now, I feel that the last part is a little vague and God Tiers have their own Echeladder like advancement too. Perhaps every rung you climb on your God Tier ladder, you get a reduction in MP costs for Powers along with extra dice and auto successes?

Oh god, Terezi Driving a Rocket-Car, what have you done Mage?

Okay successes for dice rolls become harder when you god tier? I'd assume you get better chances to overcome obstacles and what not, along with flight and other abilities. Please explain the 4, 5, 6 dealie to me Mage.


uhg anyway yeah God Tier abilities should be Alpha as fuck so we'll include Flight and One special ability for each aspect and one special ability for each class, they'll scale with your god tier rank. We'll throw in auto successes and Stat increases along the way.

I'm thinking 3 possible powers for each class and 3 possible powers for each aspect, you pick and choose. (or roll a d6.) sound doable?

>>68542
Most of the powers we've seen seem to not be actual abilities but game "features" like the gift of gab (which all players get once its unlocked). Perhaps every second level should reward plot points or something?

And another feature of Godtier. They can't permadie unless the players/GM decide the player was doing something particularly heroic or villainous when they died.

The Gift of gab was a joke and you know that as well as I do, Fer Shame. But each of the kids, upon assuming their God Tier role gets god tier powers, stat boosts, THE WINDY THING, TORNADO DRILLS, ALL THE LUCK, stuff like that.

I was thinking more along the lines of setting up what each class and aspect grant on hitting god tier and giving players a small selection of abilities so they can customize their character.

but yeah, Conditional Immortality is definetly a thing as far as god tier is concerned.

>>68545
the windy thing was always something john could do, and whether vriskas "all the luck" by stealing it from others was godtier or just something she could do is unclear. i didnt mean upon hitting godtier though, i mean the godtierS themselves.

Green you're being obtuse. Stop it. We can't really rely on the source material overly much since at least a good quarter of our source material consists of metafictional jokes.

God Tier means you get god level powers, John could always do the windy thing, whatever, it was there because Hussie needed something to put out that sea of fire and he chose to reveal John's powers sooner rather than later.

As has been said by numerous anons though this is a tabletop RPG not a wevcomic so we don't have the luxury of predestination or timeloops.

TL;DR
God Tiers should be treated like a class upgrade of sorts we hand out 2 powers and flight abilities and stat boosts and auto successes and have it all get sweeter with each God Tier run increase.

>>68543
In this game, we roll a pool of six-sided dice. Results of 5 and 6 are successes. If I roll five dice and I get a 2, 5, 1, 5, and a 6, I've got three successes and am a pretty lucky son of a gun. Dice pools are determined by taking your relevant stat and adding two or subtracting two depending on the retentive tags you or a scene might possess. This is day one stuff right here.

Hitting god tiers lets you count fours in addition to fives and sixes as successes. Lets you get big numbers right there.

God Tiers come with Conditional and Biological Immortality. If you'd die, you'd just respawn eventually. If your death is particularly heroic (Dying to save all your friends) or particularly just (Getting shown up and killed by a member of you particularly violent species). You also won't age to death.

Vriska's Thief of Light shenanigans also comes from the fact that she was likely mooching all the luck from her fellow players, saving it all up to fight Jack so she can at least be on par with him. But, as they say, luck is no match for skill and power and even the best luck runs out eventually.

The Gift of Gab abilities were just there as a narrative device, mostly to remove the pesterlogging and replace it with a dialoguelog as people were starting to get together and meet in person.

I thought it said the DM Set the Difficulty mage. 1, 2, and 3, being easy 4, being medium, 5, being hard, 6 being impossible. and that you'd have to have one of the die meet your success level.

Lets say ozz is repairing his pipboy after a battle, the GM sets the cap and four 4s so I have to roll four, 4s. That's the way I read it anyway, and it makes more sense to me to let a DM decide difficulty rather than slap a bunch of arbitrary restrictions in his lap.

Whatever.

Class and Aspect powers, are we doin' this or not?

>>68547
I mean the windy thing was a trait of his mythological role, not a result of godtiering. The sheer power to drill holes in the battlefield with it, perhaps. Similarly, Dave could always do the timey thing. What we've definitely seen about godtiers:
>They're basically immortal
>They all have some method of flight, though not necessarily efficient
>They get extra levels (which presumably function identically to echeladder ranks, boosting echeladder-dependent abilities)
>They are rewarded in achievements instead of boondollars (so they don't get boondollars just for reaching new godtiers, basically)
>Their normal Mythos-related abilities become insanely powerful to a point of qualifying for Taken to the Illogical Extreme (hence wind tornadoes, stealing not just some luck but AAAAAAAALL the luck, being able to guide and manipulate two entire sessions by riding flares off the green sun to eventual victory in a third session that should also have been doomed, manipulating time to the point of freezing opponents without even using a time machine...)
>Since they become their dream bodies, they can travel through dream bubbles lucidly and enter the dreams and afterlives of others at will
>All of this power (except whatever additional benefits or perks godtiers (the levels, not the players) bring) is immediate upon ascension

I think that sums up everything in a tidy package. I don't think by having John realise the potential of the Windy Thing pre-godtier Hussie was giving him an ability early, as nearly all characters have shown some mastery over their element before reaching godtier- Except Jade, whom I don't think ever influenced space directly, but then, we didn't see much of her in action after entering the Medium and before ascending.

Eh early is relative. I Gotta turn in for the night. Look just try and figure out some crunch that makes being God Tier WORTH the effort, the Immortality is fine but fighting the black king is pretty heroic. they need an edge, even iif it's an under the table edge. Make sure we have that edge!

>>68552
>lol guys so edgy
Go die in a fire. Not really.

Say, the godtiers continue affecting echeladder-dependent abilities, add one die per tier to each pool, and apply a multiplier to the effects of mythos-related abilities and fraymotifs (including joint fraymotifs with other players), which are rounded down, of 50% increments with a 200% boost in power after the character has ALL the levels? Sounds suitably ridiculously OP without being just easy as all fuck to attain. Number of godtiers is something to work out, unless you're actually powergaming itll probably be fairly lategame so say six levels. Then each godtier throw in your pick of the litter from potential fraymotifs, mythos abilities or aspect abilities or whatever, one of each until you've mastered them all, alongside your role's Godtier abilities, which I could chart up tomorrow if we need a chart but which would basically be the three (offence, defence and utility) methods of using your aspect that codify your class, taken to the extreme.

And if you go grimdark, you would lack conditional immortality and your powers would lean toward Prince of Void powers and not whatever your class actually is (this might have a caveat for additional offensive boosts for Prince and Void characters going grimdark that makes it worth taking over godtiers), if you apprentice to a creature you gain mythos abilities, fraymotifs and a flat 2x multiplier but don't get dice advantages of any kind or conditional immortality, and... Idk if I'm missing anything? Does that all sound in order?

>>68554
Technically, it's probably impossible for any other player to go grimdark, much less gain the same powers as Rose did.

For one, she was already unique due to her ability to channel the power of the Horrorterrors (or whatever that stuff even was). Going grimdark allowed her to tap further into that power. At the same time, it's important to remember that it was a corruption of her aspect, which instead gave her access to the powers of a Hero of Void (specifically the blackout). And then there is the matter of actually becoming grimdark. How does a player who is not a failed Seer of Light with access to Horrorterror magyyckz being guided by outside forces get their hands on a Cue Ball, figure out how to read it and know what exact question to ask?

I originally had another thought written down, but as I typed it out I realized that it was waaay to complicated to properly implement. So to make it easier on you guys while, my suggestion is that you use it as a special non-permanent aspect (Perhaps with a better name. Shade?) that you only can gain by "going grimdark", meaning you'll still keep your class while having access to the magyyckz. The amount you receive could be proportional to your class, meaning that a Sylph, Seer or Bard would gain less firepower than a Prince, Witch or Knight, but would instead gain access to stuff like unholy healing, eldritch knowledge or space/time/furthest ring fuckery (akin to Roxy's fenestrated planes).

The thing to remember is that grimdarkness was never meant to parallel or replace the god tiers. While we have only seen one case of it so far (and are unlikely to see another), grimdarkness is not only somewhat weaker than most offensive god tiers in terms of power, but it also doesn't make you immortal or give you access to your innate abilities. It's just a great boost in power that leaves you mad as hell and unable to communicate with others through speech. I think grimdarkness should be a non-permanent form that you lose upon dying and being revived as a dreamself or by ascending to the god tiers.

Just an idea.

>>68554
roflcopter 3deep5every2
>>68557
You know you can delete your own posts right? I mean fuck, when the sight when down I quintuple posted, no lie. I kept trying to feed my post in and the sight must've cached the command or sumthin 'cause I had to delete a whole bunch of my posts. Just click the box next to your post, scroll down all the way to the bottom the page and hit delete.

Anyway I've mentioned it in passing and I was tired and just wanted to sleep so I didn't bring it up but I think we should either co-opt the term grim dark, or make up a new one. The TermI'm looking for is "Corruption" wherein a malevolent entity, Like Doc scratch or the HorrorTerrors drives you nuts but grants you massive power. TRhis being a tabletop game I feel we should just treat it as a bunch of character classes (Like Blackguard or CancerMage in D&D) and maybe attach a humanity meter to a corrupted player. they run out of humanity points they go nuts and become an chaotic stupid NPC.

==>

Anyone Familair with Vampire the Masquerade would know how the corruption thing works.

anyway as Grimdark-Anon has pointed out the HorrorTerror's thing was very specific and we should instead exchange it for denizens, or first guardians or other cosmic entities that could grant all manner of powers. Hope could be corrupted from Righteousness into Pride and Vanity for instance. There are a lot of ways to make this work, we just take each of our current aspects, asign some corruption stats to them and let that serve as either an alternative to the god tier.

Remembe rnot everyone makes god tier, and not everyone will want to. Plenty of people like playing paladins, and plenty of them like playing blackguards.

Some people will want to evade the god tier thing entirely and go for a quick power boost and play the balancing game, others will take the slow road and get the more rewarding god tier.

We could work on other god tier alternatives but for the moment I think we should focus on god tiers and corruption

>>68555
Honestly, I think grimdarkness is a stupid idea, but it was suggested as an alternative to godtiering earlier. It's all part of Rose's "Edgy teen/Kid Punisher" theme, and didn't even figure in much plotwise- She was Grimdark for exactly long enough to get to the battlefield, babble incoherently at John and get killed. The whole thing was really a plot device to show she had suddenly attained the power of the Horrorterrors, make a big showy entrance then get beaten by the big bad in under a second to show just how big and bad he was even by comparison And incidentally in the process later show just how powerful Vriska was, that she would have had a fair chance to defeat Jack had she not been stopped by Terezi; Which is significant because it also shows that godtiering is MUCH more effective than going grimdark even in canon. John's godtiering would be the same, if it hadn't also granted him conditional immortality.

>>68561
Site wouldn't let me delete posts earlier on when I had that issue.

The Derse dreamers, possibly one per session or possibly just in general, seem very inclined to talk to the Horrorterrors. In the case of Meenah, who was already a powergamer and godtier, and presumably had one as her Lusus, she sought their counsel on avoiding the Scratch. For Feferi, she's had one as her Lusus, so she was raised by it and communicated with it every day to keep it from destroying her race, so she was naturally more understanding of the Horrorterrors to begin with. Rose was just an enthusiast of Lovecraftian Horrorterrors, who was a Derse dreamer and inclined to teenage edginess, then found out that her mother had been killed, so when she communed with the horrorterrors and was offered their help she accepted it fully and became more of an avatar of these eldritch gods than herself, which is what "going grimdark" was. Perhaps, from a more canonical standpoint, grimdarkness should be only one fairly rare potential effect of being the Derse dreamer that communes with Horrorterrors.

Rose's conditions were, if I recall correctly
>Inclined to melodrama and edginess
>Obsessed with the occult
>Suddenly extremely angry/upset when she discovered her mother was dead
>A Derse dreamer that communed with Horrorterrors
Take any one part of that out and I think she wouldn't have gone grimdark (plotwise, though Hussie would've still macguffined a display of jack's power), and each is dependent on several factours- The most notable of which are that she retained her memories from a doomed timeline because of her Seer class, she had a specific set of circumstances that led to her finding out her mother had been killed and she had already decided that Sburb was something of a sham and had begun destroying the Incipisphere as an act of rebellion.

>>68563
Whoah, hang on, it wasn't Meenah's Lusus. On Beforus the political system presumably didn't rely as much on coercion and assassination, and it was even stated at some point (I think between Porrim and Kankri) that the reason the Fuschia-bloods ruled was their extremely high longevity. Doc Scratch mentions that the Horrorterror that has served as every Alternian Empress's Lusus was Lord English's gift to the planet.

Either way, Fuschia blood definitely shields against the Horrorterrors' screeching, and Meenah did not succumb to them so much as use them for advice.

Grimdarkness seems like something best left to the GM to interpret? Aside from the fact that we don't really know what exactly it does, if it was unique to Rose/her role, or what the exact role the Horrorterrors are playing in Homestuck... it doesn't really fit on the scale of a regular session.

Rose became grimdark after looking into the cue ball (under Doc Scratch's instructions) and being overwhelmed with what she saw in it. This just... wouldn't happen in a normal session. If the point of this is to make a tabletop game where people can play through a proper game of Sburb then that's what you should focus on doing! Not accounting for every glitch and supercosmic event that occurs in Homestuck itself, because Homestuck-the-story is certainly not a shining example of what a real session works like, especially after Act 4. If the GM and players wish to recreate Homestuck complete with grimdarkness and tumors and LE and horrorterror involvement then power to them, but leave the mechanics up to them. You don't need to deal with that kind of stuff, you don't need to make rules for every story twist--and grimdarkness was story progression, not a battle mechanic.

>>68562
>anyway as Grimdark-Anon has pointed out the HorrorTerror's thing was very specific and we should instead exchange it
Yeah, the grimdarkness was specific and probably unique, due to the circumstances surrounding the Green Sun. But the corruption of a player's role by outside forces is not. My idea was just one way of doing it. While I don't exactly have much experience creating or even speculating about tabletop mechanics, I can at least pass along a few suggestions.

So. Another idea would be keeping a 'corruption' that's more in line with what Rose's grimdarkness really was about; a perverted form of her aspect (Light) and class (the passive Seer), forcefully transforming her into an extremely active Void player. (Also, I just realized that Rose talking in the blackspeech woetongue was a form of obfuscation. Another manifestation of Void.)

If you wanted to, you could (perhaps with some difficulty) implement a sort of "quest morality/attunement" meter, where, upon reaching the absolute bottom by refusing your call or simply failing to play the "right way" (as a result of failure due to, say, bad rolls), your aspect and class would change to their opposites and you'd reach something similar to grimdarkness, with an accompanying power boost. The problem I see is whether that could be seen as a viable alternative. Since you choose your own class, why would you suddenly decide to turn your Sylph of Life into a berserking Doom hero for an indeterminate period of time?

>>68565
I agree. Personally, since this stuff was brought up as a cover for players that didn't want to godtier, I'd point to the trolls' session, where the only troll that godtiered before the end of the game itself was Vriska, because the others didn't want to face their own death or didn't feel the need to. They were made out to have all been extremely capable even without godtiering- in fact, Gamzee's pent up berserker rage did more single-attack damage than Vriska could even manage, and Aradia's many doomed timeclones participating almost certainly helped a great deal, something she could have only accrued through the way she played the game. Equius was incredibly powerful from the beginning of the story just because of his physical mutation, but that probably wouldn't work for a tabletop game. And so on, most of the trolls either at or shortly after Duodecim Angelus showed incredible power that, while it wasn't on-par with godtiering, was pretty close. I don't think alternatives are really necessary, in other words; The work that goes into working out your character's unique lore and finding your questbed and awakening on the battlefield and sacrificing your extra life for conditional immortality could go into just making your character progressively stronger (as Vriska at first apparently wanted to do as well), evening the odds somewhat.

is the pastebin updated with all this good info?

Okay our current staus on godtiers is:
Stat boosts and conditional Immortality, which is fine we can work on stuff like aspect and class abilities for god tiers later.

I think it's agreed that if we ever include corruption we'll just use it in a splat book.

anything else we need to cover before we enter Playtest Alpha stage?

Whoops, sorry about being mostly absent for the past week or two. I've had some social and scholastic obligations to take care of and things should be good for now. I'm going through and compiling all of the everything we've got now into a .pdf and a new pastebin. Expect something sometime tonight after I've had a good look at things, clarified, actually hammered out language for the parts that should have language and not copy/pastes from posts in the previous threads.

While you wait, have a pretty badass picture.

i don't really understand how fraymotif generation works for one person

Ideally, you roll 2d6, choosing one die to be your condition in which you can activate it and the other die being the effect based on what Aspect your character possesses.

>>68698
I've been busy with life and my fucking computer breaking. Funny I just got back now.

Mebbe too late for this now, but in light of the most recent flash, it seems being a Mage had nothing to do with Sollux's visions, and what a Mage does is create their aspect (the Mage of Heart, Meulin, is a matchmaker, similar but not identical to Nepeta's shipping charts, and Sollux of course is a vital instrument in Aradia's death and the creator of the cursed ~ATH programme Karkat runs, which is what ultimately creates the cascade resulting in the universe having already been scratched so the kids' universe has Cancer and both sessions become doomed). Similarly, it seems that heirs literally inherit or are given their aspect- John was supposed to learn about the Breeze from his Denizen, but was pressured into it by Vriska instead, and Mituna inherits the doom which (like Sollux) he foretold from his colleagues, though exactly what this doom was is not clear yet.

So yeah, those two classes finally have a more consistent definition in-canon.

>>68698
>>68753
Okay cool noted. I think we should work on a splat book for glitched sessions sooner or later, preferably sooner.

I mean sure a standard game of homestuck will be cool, and will probably resemble Earthbound to one degree or another, but some people (like me) are gonna wanna glitch their session up to make things wierd and interesting so far the 3 most promising glitches gameplay wise I can see are;

Hazardous planets
Usurpers
Reverse Prospit/Derse relationship (in concerns to who the final boss is.)

Like Derse for instance is all sneaky/assassinate-y so Prospit shpuld use overwhelming force.

Usurper is pretty self explanatory but I think both the white and black royalty should be usurped and thus provide a VERY different end game scenario.

and Hazardous Planets, well I think that shgould be extended to the rest of the session, injecting a lot more realism than is strictly required. Forcing players to make space suits and other stuff like that.

What do you think the best glitches are guys?

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?5dcv25yfui4ck5s

Well, it may be five days off, but this thing is finally up to alpha standards. It may need some further editing, but I'm sort of dead in the water for today. Pastebin to come on Sunday.

http://pastebin.com/Hnc6FHcZ

The all important pastebin with the semi-completed game will not be seen tonight in exchange for this seperate, but equally all important pastebin with something in it.

Okay cool, you raised an Issue I was worried about Mage, since the game so far has basically been put together by three guys with an internet connection it (surprise surpise) looks like 3 pieces of glass glued together.

So far I like the spin system idea, it would generate points that could be used for stuff and if a player needs more HP or whatever the GM can hand that out as he sees fit also. (SBURB, SPIIIIIIINNNN OOONNN!)

anyways, once we get our core gameplay mechanic(s?) thouroughly unfucked we can probably start playtesting.

Unless one of you has a group ready and feels like playing our abomination.