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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 133623469896.png - (120.50KB , 609x738 , 7oL7W.png )
65129 No. 65129
old thread:

Let's theorizing, love!
Expand all images
>> No. 65130
UU is a hermaphrodite
>> No. 65131
trolls don't work like that, dude
>> No. 65132
All troll's have penises, two of them
>> No. 65133
maybe hir has 4 penises then
>> No. 65134
I think UU's gender is a red herring and people should stop conflating them with Calmasis.
>> No. 65136
Trolls don't practice penetrative sex since they use external fertilisation.
>> No. 65137
I'm guessing UU and uu occupy same waking body but have separate dreamselves, each with its own title and stuff. No idea how that would impact their gender. There's gotta be something going on there, since trolls definitely exhibit secondary sexual characteristics.
>> No. 65138
Not really speculation, and I know it won't happen, but the UU in this tumblr is my honest hope for what official UU ends up looking like. So damn cute.
>> No. 65139
How about this: uu's personality was sucked out of his original body, which died or ceased to exist or whatever. Therefore his waking self lives in UU's body even when he's the active personality, but his dreamself is what he "actually" looks like.

Alternatively, their colocation is some kind of magical phenomenon where they just inexplicably switch places and we don't even have to think about it very much.
>> No. 65140
File 133627992912.gif - (10.07KB , 650x450 , 04858.gif )
People will stop conflating UU and Calmasis when Hussie stops encouraging them to do so.

Though I still don't understand the people who think that UU is literally Calmasis. I mean, it's likely that Calmasis is Rose's allegory for UU and uu in the form of one character, but UU isn't literally a grimdark wizard any more than Stalin is a black talking pig named Napoleon.
>> No. 65144
This particular panel reminds me of that one old Formspring post about the book Hussie never finished writing. The one where Zazzerpan and the Complacency are originally from.

>Herbert is the guy with the eye patch. He had a magic gun. But he could never figure out how to use magic, so he primarily just went around shooting things.
>> No. 65146
> Magical Herbert and CoTL connection
Gonna bet rite now that UU/uu/both? has Berhert or Trebreh or some other deformation of "Herbert" for a last name.
>> No. 65151
One body, different dreamselves. UU is active in the daytime, uu is active at night. One of them will be the snakes(uu) while the other is the snakebearer(UU)

I'd love to know why uu wants to kill UU so bad. I'm also not completely sold on UU being female.
>> No. 65153
The fact that UU's class is female-only means that she's almost definitely a girl herself - or at least her dreamself is. Assuming she and uu share a body, though, I have no clue what their waking self's sex could be.
>> No. 65154
So they're a weresnakestroll? Awesome.
>> No. 65157
Intersexed, probably. Though what would that mean for trolls remains unknown.
>> No. 65159
Since we're still talking about UU and uu, can I share my interpretation of the two-dreamselves-one-body theory with the class? :D

See, there's this biological phenomenon called chimerism, which is basically the opposite of identical twins? Instead of one fertilized egg producing two identical babies, two or more fertilized eggs produce one individual with a patchwork of different DNA. If one of the contributing zygotes is genetically male and the other is genetically female, chimerism can result in an intersex individual. And in people, one of the most common symptoms of chimerism is actually the person in question having more than one blood type running through their veins.

Maybe the Uu session's ectobiology machine glitched, and instead of producing two offspring grubs from their ancestor/s' paradox slime, it produced a chimera grub with a mixed blood color (black blood? tie-dye christmas blood? Who even the fuck knows) and mixed sex traits. Sburb, realizing it done fucked up, then induced Multiple Personality Disorder in the patchwork trollbaby so that the minimum number of people needed to play Sburb could be achieved.

Time shenanigans via Trollian and sburb-granted time powers will probably need to be liberally used, though, in order to make entering the medium Not Fucking Impossible.

Dreamselves tend to be closer to the individual's personal image of themself (terezi likes being blind and thus her dreamself is blind, while tavros doesn't like being crippled and so his dreamself can walk), so UU and uu's seperate dreamselves could manifest as having the blood color and physical sex that they imagine they would have if they hadn't been merged into a single person at inception. Assuming that the recent Calmasis' Legs panel is more indicative of their blood color than their chat symbols are, UU identifies as a redblood because she is a bluh bluh huge humaboo or some shit.
>> No. 65162
I don't think they are one person at all.

Yo look at this image >>65140 for a second and realise the green represents the scratched universe and the red represents the original. Realise uranianUmbra's symbol is on the red side and undyingUmbrage's is on the green. What if they are the ancestors of each other? And they play the game together because you cannot have a one-person session, so uranianUmbra had to get to undyingUmbrage's session in order to complete the game, similar to what the humans have to do?

UU in all her sweetness represents the troll culture in the A1 session; uu's warmongering competitive ways are A2. If they are basically clones of each other they are probably the same "sex," which is probably male. Uranian doesn't mean intersex, numbnuts. It's an archaic word for transgender women, or as wikipedia puts it, "a female psyche in a male body."
>> No. 65163
Am I the only person who doesn't think that the "uranian" in uranianumbra has anything to do with archaic words for gay and transgender people? I think it's probably a reference to uranium.
>> No. 65164
Aranea refers to "one noteworthy fugitive" when talking about surviving members of their race to Terezi, so she perceives UU/uu as one entity, at least.
>> No. 65165
I think he definitely chose uranian because of the archaic meaning as well as its resemblance to "uranium," but I think the gender might have just been to trip people up. And in the end it doesn't matter because UU calls herself a girl anyway.
>> No. 65166
Pretty sure she was talking about the Condesce when she mentioned the "fugitive."
>> No. 65167
Red and green only represent the pre and post scratch for universe B, though. Universe A, the troll's universe, was blue in the postscratch, and judging from the way the colors flipped across scratch for universe B, prescratch universe A was probably purple or something.
>> No. 65168
UU and uu don't necescrily have to be in the blue universe, though. Sure, they might be trolls, but given all the trans-universal communication anything is possible.
>> No. 65169
It might be colour coded for outcome of that particular session.

Red is barren; blue is fertile; green is barren but viable with in vitro assistance.

The A1 troll session would have been coded red as well as anyone else who had to scratch their game.
>> No. 65173
Remember how the cursor and curtain colors switched in universe B?

The cursor in the A2 session was purple.
>> No. 65176
Which would imply...

Egads! The four legendary gods of the B1 session...represent the colors of the four sessions!
>> No. 65177



I don't believe this
>> No. 65181
Hussie said that he decided that Homestuck was going to be a "secret trilogy" with the second part (act five) being about the trolls and the third part (act six) focusing on a post-reset earth...while he was in the middle of working on act four.

He makes a lot of shit up on the fly, but I bet he plans out a lot in advance as well.
>> No. 65185

>Dirk is a puppeter
>Jake likes weekend at bernie's
>"Hope will be dead on arrival"

Dirk is totally going to corpsepuppet his gay crush through the medium

I know it to be true
>> No. 65187
>The fact that UU's class is female-only

This in particular is what I take issue with. UU never outright states that female is his/her class, that's just implied because the end of 'her' explanation happened to end with female. 'He' could very well have a male specific class.

The feminine mannerisms(which I don't see by the way) could be because UU is Male sex/Female gender.
>> No. 65188
If UU's gender is female, regardless of her sex, why couldn't she end up with a female-exclusive class? I'd be kind of pissed off if she got a male class because she was physically male. (whatever the fuck that means for a species where all orientations are reproductively viable.) Also, when uu says that UU isn't his sister, he says "SHE's not my sister." Female pronouns. I'd find it really unlikely if she turned out to be anything other than a woman.

Also, you've been ignoring the context of the word uranian. Early in its history, it was used to refer to both male-to-female transexuals and to male homosexuals, because it was believed that male homosexuality was the result of a female psyche in a male body; in other words, they were considered the same goddamn thing. And then later it became an absurdly broad term covering pretty much everyone under the modern "queer" umbrella, plus non-trans heterosexuals that defied gender social norms. You can't really accurately guess her sex or gender just based on her username, dude.
>> No. 65191
Oh he actually said she? I missed that somehow.

Also, i'm not the one talking about uranian. That was someone else.
>> No. 65192
Yep, right here: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=006548

Urp, sorry! I really shouldn't assume.
>> No. 65193
UU has even used the word "girl" to describe herself!
>UU: and i'm far from anyone like that. jUst a girl who wants to help!
>> No. 65198
OKay I got it! Uranian means UU is trapped in uu's body. Undying means uu literally can't die. uu is stuck with UU forever.

Umbrage because uu is a disgrace somehow
Umbra because UU is never seen, like the darkside of the moon. That or she's a blemish on an otherwise perfect troll.

ALSO uu is 'undying' because he is now both time AND space because of UU. They are a singular continuum.
>> No. 65199
uu is a parasitic twin inside of UU!
>> No. 65200
uu seems more like a Hope player so far.
>> No. 65201
>uu seems more like a Hope player so far.

If UU and uu are the only ones playing a session then it make sense one of them was a time player(a landmark where a Scratch can be performed is required) and the other was space(the point of the game, Space players are in charge of creating new universes).
>> No. 65202

UU is probably the Time player what with her syncing her timeline with the Alphas.
uu is Space... because there's a SPACE inside of him where UU resides! Oh Shit! All kinds of pieces are falling into place... like PUZZLE PIECES! He fills up empty spaces like blank space in a puzzle!!

...yeah, silliness aside. I think UU would be time. What would her (female specific) class be?
>> No. 65203
I've been guessing which classes held by girls are female-exclusive by whether they have dresses/skirts or not. I'm thinking she's probably a Witch, Sylph, or Seer.

And as a side note, I think uu is probably a Bard. Which would make UU's comments about how the B session is lucky to not have a bard rather amusing.
>> No. 65207
>...yeah, silliness aside. I think UU would be time. What would her (female specific) class be?

UU mentioned that she was a Prospit dreamer in one of ther earlier convos with Jane, so would she be a Space player?
>> No. 65210
i think so...
>TT: You've stolen enough of my time. I didn't even get a chance to try plugging in that window.
this line may hint uu being the thief of time
so sylph maybe?
>> No. 65217
>If UU and uu are the only ones playing a session then it make sense one of them was a time player(a landmark where a Scratch can be performed is required) and the other was space(the point of the game, Space players are in charge of creating new universes).
You need a Time player if you want a second chance at playing the game, but actually there's no clear indication that you need one to finish the game.

This seems related somehow to Jake's powers as a Page of Hope, given what brain!Dirk was hinting at. But we've seen questions of belief and imagination figure prominently in both Tavros and Eridan's character arcs, so it's anyone's guess whether this is a Page thing or a Hope thing... or somehow both.

So if we want to infer class or aspect from personality alone (which is something you're supposed to be able to do) we could take this to mean that uu is, for example, a Page of Time(?) or a Thief(?) of Hope. Alternatively he could be a totally different class/aspect, and obsessed with belief/imagination because he's strongly in denial of his true calling as a Sburb player, meaning all bets are off until we find out how more classes and aspects are related to each other.
>> No. 65218
>You need a Time player if you want a second chance at playing the game, but actually there's no clear indication that you need one to finish the game.

Are you implying that this would be UU+uu SECOND session we are reading through now? And if it is, wouldn't they still share the same aspect as THEIR pre-Scratched selves?
>> No. 65219
(>>65217 continued)
Wait a second... We also know uu is very impatient, which so far seems to be a Time thing (at least with Derse dreamers).

I'm betting on Page of Time for now.
>> No. 65220
I was only saying they could scratch their session if they had a Time player, but even if they didn't they might still be able to finish the game.

The human players all had different aspects (possibly opposite/complementary ones, but still different) after their scratch. The pattern we're seeing with the 12-player troll sessions could just be a quirk of their "family."
>> No. 65222
I don't think the Uu session will be scratched at any point, but I still think that there'll probably be a time player.

Think about it. One of the big appeals of Sburb to its players/victims is that it allows friends to play together in person - often, friends who have never actually met in person.
UU and uu have never met in person, and the big theory right now is that it's because they share a a body, and the one not in control automatically goes to sleep. How do you get two people in one body to meet in person? Well, if one of them can travel to a point in time where the other person is in control...ta-da!
>> No. 65233
Not my theory, I found it on the MSPA forums, but...

"A possibility not oft discussed is the possibility that even though LE was not originally part of the equilibrium, he is now and removing him would create a situation where either the HTs or Skaia would win permanently, and Jake will don the role of a second Lord English (who is NOT definitively evil) and keep things steady throughout Paradox Space."

Certainly a different take on the Jake=LE theory.
>> No. 65234
This is the best argument I've seen yet for a Time aspect.
>> No. 65235
Honestly, I'm surprised more people don't bring it up.
>> No. 65242
I get it, like an inoperable tumor. Nice. Or not nice. Ew.
>> No. 65243
That would certainly make planning just about anything a real hassle. Makes sense though, from all the time theories he's trying to coach readers on. Hope it happens.
>> No. 65245
The fact that it would be a huge hassle is part of why I want to see it happen. Imagine someone like uu being entrusted to NOT create endless doomed timelines. The results would be darkly hilarious in the best way.
>> No. 65251
I don't think meeting in person would be a problem if they went god tier, though.
>> No. 65252
....Assuming they can both ascend simultaneously.

If their aspects are Time and Space and they die on a Time bed, what happens? Will there be quest beds that count for both aspects? If uu gets the tiger and UU doesn't, would uu kiss their shared corpse so UU's dreamself can live on, or will he laugh in her face and watch her die?
>> No. 65255
Most people have to at the very least spend a few hours in the game strifing and acomplishing objectives before become Godtier-able, though. Gotta hit the top of the echeladder.
>> No. 65290
Along with passive/active roles, titles also have opposites. Like, Prince is the active destroyer class (destruction via aspect) while Page is the active creator class (construction via aspect).

So Jake is the opposite of Eridan. Their lives reflect it- Eridan is the clingy guy everyone rejects, and Jake is romantically oblivious but has everyone chasing after him.
>> No. 65297
Pre-Scratch Grand Highblood will be a mime. That is all.
>> No. 65307
We'll meet two more pre-scratch trolls. Any other pre-scratch trolls we see will be glimpses in flashbacks, not fleshed out in any real way.

To balance out Aranea and Meenah, the two other prescratch trolls we meet will be male. One of them will be the sufferer, the other will probably be the summoner. Not only will they balance out the genders, they'll represent the lowblood end of pre-scratch society.

Aranea and Meenah's classes are Sylph and Thief - the only female-occupied classes we've seen among the trolls that didn't have a second occupant among the human players. There are two male-occupied classes among the trolls that aren't represented in the human session - Mage and Bard. I therefore predict that one of the male prescratch trolls we meet will be a Mage, and that the other one will be a Bard.
>> No. 65308
Theory: uu is the Sufferer. The pre-scratch trolls got a UU instead.
>> No. 65311
That doesn't even make sense. uu is supposed to be the server player for UU. If uu is the postscratch sufferer, he pretty much CAN'T play sburb because we already know his life story. And also because meteorbabies designated as "ancestor" don't play the game.
>> No. 65312
And uu can't even be the pre-scratch copy of the Sufferer, because then how would the post-scratch Sufferer remember what the original world was like
>> No. 65325
There's gonna be a page titled ">Page: Turn."

Whether it's gonna be literal or metaphorical, I have no idea. But it'd be....fun if it was literal.
>> No. 65330
UU's session is going to be the one that deals the final blow to LE.
>> No. 65333
uU live(s?) in the far future of post-Scratch Earth, after the Condesce's reign has crumbled. They have access to the trolls' meteor, which crashed there via defense portal.
>> No. 65336
File 133712168890.png - (159.19KB , 650x450 , sarcasm.png )
UU and uu will eventually become playable characters.
>> No. 65337
Pretty sure that is just a tab would open/collapse the Choose Character window if this were an actual gme screen.
>> No. 65338
Wouldn't it make more sense to assume that that would be a toggle for a character select screen of the beta kids once they all meet up?
>> No. 65339
But then why would you toggle between one Pesterchum symbol and another identical to it? User interface-wise, it makes no sense.
>> No. 65340
File 133715110563.jpg - (147.08KB , 1280x720 , Paradox Space Wallpaper 1280x720.jpg )

So, when Lord English can't get somewhere he needs to go, he sends someone to do the dirty work for him.
We know that the Batter Witch has had her hands in both B1 and B2 for a while now. The question I'm interested in addressing is HOW she went about doing it. She has to have, from her point of view, jumped from place to place one after another. Listing her itinerary, we know she's been to: A2 Session (grub), A2 (Her Imperial Condescenion), B1 (Betty Crocker from here on, raised Nanna and Grandpa Harley), B2 Session (usurped the Black Queen), and B2 (Betty Crocker ruling Earth).

So, let's start investigating by remembering the structure of the Homestuck Paradox Space Multiverse (cf. pic related)
On the largest scale we have "The Furthest Ring", AKA Paradox Space, basically the biggest jumble of tangled spacetime imaginable. Everything ever takes place here, one way or another.
Dotting the Furthest Ringscape, presumably at great spacetime distances from each other, are Incipispheres. These are where SBURB sessions happen, and are spawned from within existing universes, and as far as we can tell they each form their own pocket universe out in the Furthest Ring with its own timeline. Most of them fail, and eventually end and become eaten by Paradox Space.
Successful sessions live here too. And inside of those, nestled in the center of Skaia, Bilious Slick grows to maturity and becomes a Universe As We Know It.
Floating in one corner of Paradox Space, bright and leering, is the GREEN SUN. Some (probably a countless number, but apparently not all) sessions and the universes inside of them are trapped in its orbit.

So, how exactly does one navigate this clusterfuck of distinct spacetimes, each with their own spatial and temporal boundaries independent of one another except at special intresections?

>Getting between SBURB/SGRUB/SWHATEVER Incipispheres/Mediums/Sessions
The only way we know of doing this directly is to successfully navigate the Furthest Ring. To do this as far as we know you need either a bright temporary marker (e.g. the Green Nova) or a God Tier Seer of Light to find the way. Perhaps most importantly, as Rose said, you also need the will of the gods. You can't find a valid path if they don't allow for one to exist for you.

>Getting from a Session to the Universe that spawned it
This one is much simpler. Simply fling yourself through a Skaian Defense Portal. Each one leads to a different spacetime point in the universe that spawned the session.

>Getting from a Session to the Universe they spawned.
This is perhaps the easiest of all. Once you beat the game, Bilious Slick is floating before you, and a Victory Portal will appear that will (presumably) let you enter the new universe you've made. Bec Noir immediately broke this for the Trolls, so they were stuck. It is currently unknown if you can "just... sort of reach up and..." fly into Bilious Slick from the outside, since you can see the galaxies and everything. You probably could, but would end up in intergalactic space, rather than anywhere you would want to be.

>Getting from a Universe to either the Session that spawned it or the Session it spawned.
Arguably the most important instance of such travel is when the players first enter the Incipisphere. This is facilitated by Entry Items.
But there is another way that was revealed in [S] Cascade.
We got our first hint of this way back when:
As you can see, the terminal is pointing at the RIGHT hand portal, and the direction can be changed by a key:
We don't actually see this get to see the key turn, but in [S] Cascade (part 2 if you want to skip to it), when Bec Noir grabs the uranium from WV's tummy (poor guy ): Glad he's better) the pointer has been set to the LEFT, and goes directly to the Troll's Session, the one that created this Bilious Slick.
BUT! We still don't have complete information. On the terminal we know:
(left => Troll Session)
(right => ???)
We can guess that it goes to the Kid's session. But here's the tipper: How do we know if if went to the Kids' Beta (pre-scratch) Session or the Teens' Alpha (post-scratch) session? Dealing with the Scratch has muddled up these things severely. WHERE does a Scratched Universe Frog reside? While having the terminal send you to the specific session that was spawned by that universe makes symmetrical sense, we can't be sure.

So, using all known methods of inter-universal travel, we should be able to piece together a travel plan that HIC followed.
One important thing that everyone probably forgot:
Someone was already in WV's Exile Station, had locked the room with the trans-universe portal, and had already drained it of power, presumably to leave the B1 Universe.

THIS is one important part of the link. We can see that at one point she was in B1 (had to raise two kids, run a corporation, and send Dave that link to the Miracles video), and then she left it through that station. If only we knew where the Station sends you if it's pointing to the right!

Everything else is speculation at this point, but at least valid speculation. Did HIC use an exile station from Alternia to get to the A2 Session? Probably after Bilious Slick was dead. Did she then fly through the Furthest Ring successfully (with LE's instructions, maybe?) and get to the B1 session, fly through a Skaia portal without us noticing, become BC on B1 Earth, survive the apocalypse, then use WV's station to get back to the B1 session and catch a Red Skaian Portal just in time to get to B2 Earth, then be Betty Crocker, take over Earth, and then ride an Exile station to the B2 Session to usurp the Black Queen?

Probably a far fetched path, but that's why I'm opening up the floor to ask for other people's speculated trans-universe travel paths. I've typed enough to fill a book heavy enough to kill a cat if you dropped it.
>> No. 65342
Also, it's not like there isn't space on the pesterchum tab for four more boxes...
>> No. 65346
Guys. In act 5-2, Doc Scratch told Spades Slick that the name that everyone knows him by isn't his real name, just a "nickname."

Doc Scratch is cloned from a piece of Strider Family property - Lil Cal.

Both Striders have the initials DS, just like Doc Scratch has the initials DS.

Doc's real name is (insert D-name here) Strider.
>> No. 65347
File 133721036155.jpg - (80.88KB , 604x373 , duuuuuuuuuude.jpg )
I can't believe this never occurred to me before. It's perfect.
>> No. 65349

It's Dick Scratch
>> No. 65350
That...is pretty plausible.
>> No. 65380

We know Doc Scratch is Cal's son. Dirk was also raised by Cal.

DS is a clone of Dirk, Lord English is somehow Jake

Jake has been inside Dirk all along
>> No. 65381
But how can Jake be inside dirk when dirk is already inside jake?
>> No. 65392
Very uncomfortably.
>> No. 65400
The ring Hussie is using to propose to Vriska is going to become an important plot point. It will end up being the ring from one of the queens in the alpha game, or orbs will get added to it to power it up, or something. I don't know how it will become important, but it will.
>> No. 65401
>> No. 65402
Mobius Matryoshka Doll Double Reacharound?
>> No. 65429
What if Jake's head gets lobbed off at some point?
> Jake has an interest in skulls
> Jane only drew Jake's head on the seedpod
> multiple instances of beheadings (Poppop Crocker, HB, prospitan guard) in B2 so fa
> "in the event that your sweetheart-to-be is decapitated"
>> No. 65453
Pure crackpot theory, but what if the next four sessions, starting with the one bec noir came from, all gave a different member of the Midnight Crew a ring? Then when there's a boss-level incarnation of all four, with Spades Slick and Diamond Droog already there, go on to fight and somehow beat Lord English?
>> No. 65457
Sure, let's run with this.

To begin with I'm gonna count Bec Noir and void!DD as the first two Gangsta Bosses. It would not be out of character for Jack to inexplicably switch sides and help the kids in such a fight, and DD would follow suit like a bro (no pun intended). So that's two rings accounted for, and two remaining. Can we match them up with copies of HB and CD who are still alive somewhere?

We never saw how the trolls' ring was destroyed exactly. Maybe someone told them a transmaterializer would do the job, and they unwittingly chucked it in and sent it to pre-scratch Alternia, where HB and CD (the last surviving MC members) already had one ring. They then escape into the furthest ring, vaporize a bunch of gross space mutants, and serendipitously show up in the void session for the boss fight.

That, or we wind up with a bunch of copies of Jack instead of a real Midnight Crew. :V
>> No. 65459
Actually, the trolls' ring was destroyed by being thrown into Kanaya's Forge.
>> No. 65481
Stupid theory time

The Bunny is another example of a "juju"

And so is Dad
>> No. 65492
We never saw either of those in the failed troll session, like we've seen Cal. Someone pointed out that the cueball could be a juju.
>> No. 65494
Does it have to exist in every session we see in order to qualify as a juju?
>> No. 65498
IMO "existing in every session we've seen" is a contraindication of Jujuity, because
>UU: they cannot be trUly dUplicated. if there ever appears to be more than one of the same, it is only a mirage of caUsality!
something that has this property can't arise independently in multiple sessions; it has to be the same object traveling from one session to another. Like how Li'l Cal came with Jack into the Troll session, and that's how he was used to make Doc Scratch, and then Doc Scratch died to instantiate the A2 Lord English.

But nowhere is it said that that kind of circuitous omnipresence is actually necessary, and in fact, it's much easier to say that a thing that shows up in multiple sessions shows up because it's created in multiple sessions (e.g. everything to do with Prospit/Derse) rather than claiming that it was created in Session X and then found its way to all the different sessions at some point in its long life.
>> No. 65499
Well, Lil' Cal is more or less confirmed to be one of them; he's been referred to as a juju, has existed in every shown universe so far, travels between them through stable time loops and sort of just mysteriously originated in dream Dave's room on Derse ("they emerge spontaneoUsly from the void")...

He also happens to be one of the two necessary "ingredients" for Doc Scratch, and, by extension, Lord English to exist in a universe. The other is the Cue ball. Now, you might say "oh, but the jujus are supposed to be worthless on their own!" but hey, it sort of is! At least to UU. The only people who have the x-ray vision required to read its answers are Rose, Vriska and Mindfang (and Aranea, but since English never entered their session they probably didn't get their hands on it). So yeah, from UU's point of view, it's just a completely worthless talisman, even if she knows of its real power.
>> No. 65501
I have my doubts about this only because Scratch talked about them as if there were actually several of them in any given world.

By the way, "juju" is slang for "penis" in Hong Kong.
>> No. 65507
No, but keep in mind that every session we've seen (a whopping number of 3) is essentially a doomed one in their own ways.
>> No. 65524
You know how Droog fancies grey ladies?

There actually might be some grey ladies as a part of Sburb, they're just the babies of interracial marriages between Prospitans and Dersites.
>> No. 65538
I thought the chess people were cloned though.
>> No. 65542
The players are clones too, but that doesn't make them incapable of biological reproduction. It just means they haven't participated in it yet.
>> No. 65573
Dirk's entry item will be a copy of him. He has to kill it to enter. Meanwhile, his dreamself flies into Skaia to escape Red Miles. Skaia opens a single defense portal, sending that tendril to Earth. The tendril finds and destroys his entry item during their fight.
>> No. 65579
I don't think he'll get an entry item at all. He'll just get the empty "source" of an entry item and won't have to do anything to it, like Jane.
>> No. 65590
File 133796835052.gif - (27.62KB , 650x450 , 04971.gif )
WELL, that there looks like the start of Red Miles.

Does this answer the question of just where the hell a scratched universe sits? Because if it's the same "place" as its pre-scratched version, and this is Bec Noir's Red Miles attack, then does that mean you can't destroy a pre-scratch universe without destroying the scratched version too?

Though that doesn't make much sense, since at least the B side of the TUMOR would have had the mass of two universes, seeing as Noir would have destroyed both B1 and B2. Unless the TUMOR is just really good at picking which universes to contain in its glass jars, while Noir's just really good at blowing up things?

On another note, Roxy and Dirk now have a time limit again, since apparently we lack reckoning meteors in B2.
>> No. 65591
Or a "universe" in the Homestuck sense is simply the set of all "timelines"/instantiations/whatever of a universe. Meaning that the Green Sun is not made of the A2 and the B1 frog, but of the A frog and the B frog.
>> No. 65592

That's probably DD's Red Miles tracking Dirk from Derse to his universe. He did say
>The kid can't escape the miles.
>No one can escape the miles.

Anyhow, we saw the A2 and B1 universe specifically being destroyed to fuel the Tumor. The red and blue motifs, Sn0wman's death, Bec Noir's Red Miles destroying the B1 frog from inside the A2 Skaia.
>> No. 65600
I wonder, does Jack's Red Miles get UNIVERSE KILLING proportions because of his FG powers, or do all Red Miles have the power to expand to such ridiculous sizes.
>> No. 65601
If you ask me, they just operate on Problem Sleuth logic. If the universe is a couple hundred meters tall on the outside, but several billions of light years in diameter on the inside, anything moving into it from the outside will be proportionally amplified on the inside. Meaning that a planetoid-killing attack aimed at the huge frog turns into a supercluster-ripping maelstrom in the universe.
>> No. 65602
What happens in universes that don't have the green sun and Lord English? Do they have their own big bads to deal with, or are they the easiest sessions to play.
>> No. 65603
the green sun isnt in a universe it exists outside of it in the furthest ring
all first guardians are powered by it
if lord english isnt there the black king/queen is probably the big bad
like the A2 session before noir entered the picture
>> No. 65605
I was under the impression that the green sun isn't in every universe however; thus meaning the Lord English has no desire in them and then Scratch and The Felt don't exist in it as well
>> No. 65606
The Green Sun exists outside of any universe, in the centre of space. The universes orbit around it like planets orbit the normal sun. It is only seen by the sessions in the story because they're the ones who created it; otherwise its existence is proably not known to other worlds, even ones Lord English has infected. It's just not relevant.
>> No. 65607
That being said, do we know how the kids/trollsfirst became aware of the sun's existence? Was it purely through Scratch's influence, or was there "in-game" lore and fluff describing it? If the latter, can we assume other sessions also have such lore or is its presence unique to the session that created it?

I'm specifically thinking of the giant captcha card Rose found under the turtle city.
>> No. 65614
There was in-game data, but probably only because it was relevant to Rose's legend.

I don't think Lord English's existence in the parent universe is relevant to the difficulty of the game (beyond the whole "doomed to reset" thing that Scratch talks about, which only really applies to the timeline before the one where English is skulking around).
>> No. 65628
I thought that they knew of the green sun because of Beq, he was an obvious first guardian. Had earth's been something like Doc' Scratch then no one would have known.

Wait... what was rose's quest?
>> No. 65629
There was a scene in Act 5-2 where Rose is using her magic to literally take apart some turtle ruins and she finds a big ol' stone captcha card about the Green Sun

and then asks Kanaya about it, who has no useful data to contribute
>> No. 65630
We didn't really see much of Rose's quest, due that whole breaking the game thing she had going. We just know she didn't follow it, but instead tried to take a shortcut. Which sort of failed. But Rose, like many other things in their session, wasn't exactly normal either. She was destined from the beginning to create the Green Sun. For that to happen, a few things were required. Vague and ambiguous sources of information, containing just enough to put her on the "right" track. She also had to believe that her purpose was to destroy it, not assist in its creation. But the most important factor was that she could not be allowed to gain the powers of a true Seer, or she would have realized how she was being manipulated.

Due to the nature of Sburb, the game "knew" that she would not follow her quest. So instead, it provided her with these vague and ambiguous sources of information that I mentioned. Ancient tomes, objects such as the giant captcha card (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004708), the Trolls and Doc Scratch. Even the Grimoire which she used to create the Thorns.

It's unlikely, however, that a "normal" session ever would come into contact with the Green Sun, even if Lord English was present in that universe. Among the players we have met, only Aradia and Rose had heard of it before Rose started to plot. And even then, Aradia held the knowledge of the souls of the dead, of the horrorterrors and thousands of dead Aradiabots. There's no reason for anyone outside these sessions to know about it, much less visit it.

Sorry for all the unnecessary text. I'm not actually trying to be an insufferable know-it-all who has to explain everything all the time, I just find Rose's journey really interesting since it's so unusual and fucked up and yet so obviously necessary.
>> No. 65632
Rose's ・゚✧ ~Real Actual Quest~ ✧・゚ is something involving DNA. She probably has yet to complete it. But her "quest" of making the Green Sun would obviously require her to know stuff about the aforementioned celestial body. It's unclear whether every player would be able to find such information in their Land, or perhaps just players of Light, or perhaps just players who are destined to go on a mission and create the Green Sun.
>> No. 65635
Thanks for basically summarizing >>65630 in like two sentences. Now I feel like a tool.

Care to explain the DNA part, though? Apart from the fact that she created the MEOW code, I can't really see what you mean.
>> No. 65636
Jaspersprite gave us a really vague explanation: http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003526
"And the way that it shakes is the same as what makes notes in a song! And a song i think can be written down as letters. So if you play the right song and it makes all the right letters then those letters could be all the letters that make life possible. So all you have to do is wake up and learn to play the rain!"

He might have meant the MEOW code. It's unclear. Later on he asked her if she'd done this yet, and she didn't answer him.
>> No. 65638
There was also that bit about breeding "lilacs from the dead land", which together with "playing the rain" sounds like something to do with Jane's planet instead of LoLaR like everyone first thought.
Or maybe both. Maybe some players are supposed to help influence the qualities of other players' planets somehow like Dave and Karkat did with Jade and Kanaya respectively.
>> No. 65679
Meenah is the only one of the pre-Scratch trolls that dresses in a black shirt with colored symbol and gray because she's the one who implemented that rule for post-Scratch Alternia in the first place. Everyone else in her original group dresses colorfully like Aranea.
>> No. 65683
Act 6 Act 5 will be about the Pre-Scratch trolls playing the game. Basically Hivebent 2.

The shitstorm shall be greater than any we have ever known.
>> No. 65688
People will be a lot madder if it's Act 6 Act 6 Act 1 instead.
>> No. 65697
At some point we'll see the "pure ideal human(oid) form" from which the carapacians are derived, and they will be suspiciously froglike. Just like members of the Felt.
>> No. 65710
When pre-scratch Sufferer is introduced, Karkat will take one look at that boring calm motherfucker with the same face and fall into instant hatelove. There's nothing he hates more than his own past/future selves- and what's more past than an ancestor?
>> No. 65714
File 133832672529.png - (13.25KB , 418x390 , Void.png )
One common theory is that the minimum for a successful session is at least one Time and one Space player, for Scratching and for Universe Making, and that SBURB doesn't start sessions without at least these players.

But what if Skaia knows that a session will not be successful in advance? Won't even prototype to have a ripe Battlefield for a hypothetical Bilious Slick to pond squat? Has already Scratched and so has no more chances? It might not bother to force said Aspects into existence.

Looking at the B2 universe's Void Session we see that neither of those players are already present; we only have Life, Heart, Void, and Hope. You will of course argue that B1 and B2 are a very special case, wherein you basically have two halves of a session that eventually come together, and you'd be right. It's only because of true shenanigans that B2's session will be made fertile again with the help of B1, and that B1's session will have a temporary haven to grow their frog in (assuming it hasn't been melted in the Forge, or that they make a new one)

But look at the B2 session if it were by itself. It obviously isn't supposed to have a strong final boss, isn't supposed to have a Final Reward, none of the big SBURB stuff. Just an empty shell of things to putz around with. The have no chance of making Bilious Slick.

What if...
Void sessions just don't have a Space player?
A particular Void session doesn't have a scratch take place?
Even if they don't drop Space, Void sessions actually necessitate a Void player like normal sessions necessitate a Space player?
In the Uu session, which is obviously Void, uu is a Void player?
uu is causing the dark Skaia storm clouds that UU is worrying about?
>> No. 65715
Both troll sessions had a Void player, but theirs was fertile.
>> No. 65726
Holy crap, you're right. I'm looking forward to this.
>> No. 65730
Well, Equius and the E%patriate both had the blackout power without being associated with clouds. Neither is Roxy. Rose did gain the powers of a Hero of Void, but only due to gaining eldritch storm powers (and those powers were symbolic of how the horrorterrors had perverted her quest to "play the rain"), so she's not really a good example of a Void player either.

But I believe what Hussie is going after with cloudy Skaia is pretty much the same thing here, even if it doesn't have much to the with the aspect of Void. I wouldn't be surprised if the Skaia in the U's session ends up giving birth to the "original" Lord English or some sort of Horrorterror.
>> No. 65733
Are space players mary sues?
Not like horrible ones but have advantages that others don't. Jade had all that amazing tech, was always awake and prophetic dreams. Also had beq which is a handy bonus. kanaya was one of the Jade Caste, was a rainbow drinker, had interests outside of the troll norms, and had met Doc. Plus her lusus was a Mother Grub. And UU is the same, at least in that she's from a rare Caste and has super special powers.
>> No. 65734
To be honest, most of the trolls have at least some Sue traits. Sollux, Kanaya, Feferi and UU are all weird, even by troll standards. However, they are all normal characters, since they lack the most important Sue criteria; the plot of the story does not bend over for these characters. Sollux and Feferi are both minor characters who end up dying horrible deaths, Kanaya's niceness came back to blast her in the guts (and she's only become more bloodthirsty ever since, pardon the pun) and I don't even know what's happening with UU. Jade has more going for her than the others, what with being an immortal omnipotent furry who saved hundreds upon hundreds of lives. And her only flaw is hating cats, and even then it's played for laughs.
>> No. 65737
In Jade's case, it's meant as a joke because she started off with all that amazing tech and Skaian insight, yet ended up with nothing upon starting the game.
>> No. 66117
So Princes are destroyers. They either destroy with their aspect or destroy their aspect.

In Dirk as the Prince of Heart this seems to be manifesting as not destroying other people's hearts, but fracturing his own into multiple selves (which is a mirror to Dave making all those time loops, making him appear as if there were multiples of him everywhere)

Now to my actual theory:

All the way back in the beginning, when Dave and Bro were fighting, the reason Dave couldn't ever catch Bro was that he could temporarily copy himself with what little of his Heart powers he had.
>> No. 66127
Found the most lovely theory on tumblr here: /post/24720311951/more-useless-pissing-around-aka-uu-and-uu-speculation

Basically uu is a Thief of Time
UU is a Knight of Space
Gender Classes are switch like their Prospit and Derse are switched
While UU is associated with snakes, uu is associated with frogs

Anyone care to blow some reality holes in this because i'm inclined to believe it.
>> No. 66137
Didn't UU say she was a female-only class?
>> No. 66138
In her session, Knight is a female only class. According to the theory anyway, and Thief would be mostly for males this way.
>> No. 66141
Since she would be the only female in her session, if she was a knight that would make it a female only class. Technically.
>> No. 66142
Here's a link if you're lazy and don't want to google the URL like I did:

It seems plausible to me. If I remember right, Thieves are mostly but not exclusively female, and UU being a Knight would be covered by the "it's exclusively female in her session" proviso. A weird bit would be UU's association with snakes and uu's hypothetical association with frogs when frogs are associated with the Space players, but then things are real weird in their session anyway, so maybe that don't matter.

Also, this is an OH SHIT worthy observation if ever there was one:
>> No. 66143
so... wait. Are the Alpha trolls just the prescratch trolls? Evev if that were the case, they're all dead so how would that work? ALSO who are the King and Queen for each side?
>> No. 66145
I like the idea, but why would only UU's pieces have horns and bloodcasting then?
>> No. 66166
They both do. uu just doesn't care enough to go along with it.
>> No. 66172
The reason the session blacks out as soon as Roxy enters is because that's the moment she becomes completely sober. She's already beginning to sober up now in story I think.
>> No. 66173
So like a parallel of Gamzee and the slime? It kept his violent impulses subdued and in the case of Roxy it stops the full extent of her void powers.

Other cases where she's sober in the past could explain the blackouts UU got but nothing like what is upcoming.
>> No. 66174
That would make a lot of sense. And explain why Mom never had any effect on the B1 session.
>> No. 66176
Can't decide if that's sad or funny.
>> No. 66180
Looks like this theory is correct as of the latest update. It also means Roxy must stay sober for the entire session. Poor gal.
>> No. 66184
Being how Poppop's and Grandma's meteors landed at the same time and place and Grandpa's and Nanna's meteors landed same time and place. And subsequently raised together...

I am willing to bet that Mom and Bro's, RDave and RRose's meteors landed in a similar fashion.
>> No. 66190
In other words, you think they grew up together.
Hm. Well. I wouldn't rule it out.
>> No. 66197
The red ~ going through uu's symbol is a Red Mile.
>> No. 66199
File 133981195126.png - (22.56KB , 228x371 , soab.png )
>> No. 66202
In every session we've see so far, the clothing choices of carapaces follow those of their monarchs. Colorful clothes were only worn by citizens in B1 because of the harlequin prototyping the monarchs bore, and the dersites and prospitans only wore the colors their own monarchs wore - no dark-bright prospitan clothes, no pastel dersitee clothes. In sessions where clothes aren't prototyped, clothes are the same color as the carapaces. In the Uu session, it's swapped.
Theory - UU and uu, in competing, have somehow finangled their respective moons into switching rulers. This is at least part of the reason why their skaia is so fucked.
>> No. 66204
>> No. 66206
Not only that. The King and Queen roles are also swapped so it would be the Queen on the battlefield instead of the King.
>> No. 66207
Exactly my thought, what with the chess game and all. Wonder which piece is supposed to correspond to which players, other than knights which are pretty obvious.
>> No. 66208
OK here's an even sillier theory: The uU session is the only one we've seen so far where the king and queen aren't swapped. In most sessions, the queen should be out on the battlefield, but Our Heroes' sessions have it backwards due to mysterious influences!
>> No. 66216
I saw a theory inspired by the recent update, that uu is UU's trickster mode.
>> No. 66228
Apropos of nothing: The denizen for Rage players is Leviathan.
>> No. 66262
>> No. 66274
The glitch that permits LE's defeat is being able to connect with his section. This way, you may get to know UU's name and use it against him.
>> No. 66277
so Cal + Cueball = scratch which summons L.E


Not "creates".

These are what Jujus are, and why there can only be one of them. they're devices for summoning their original owner across worlds. If I remember correctly UU is going to give Jane her juju, which will allow Jane to summon UU into their session to help them as some sort of good version of LE.
>> No. 66278
Little Calliope
>> No. 66301
THEORY: uu goes God Tier Lord of Time, possibly with some space powers if he and UU DO share a body (detail that is unnecessary for now), finds ways to escape his session and enter others, likely involving jujus, that server with code out in the furthest ring, and more shenanigans, gains ALL THE LEVELS of the God Tiers through those shenanigans and breaking shit that's not meant to be broken. To cement his power, the GREEN SUN needs to be made. Thus, the grand orchestrated plan involving Universes A and B and the TUMOR happen every character we've known till now have been suckers, and LE now has a vast power source he can access at will due to spacetime hax. He now has control and power over every session/universe in the Furthest Ring that revolves around his GREEN SUN and its lurid glare.

Perhaps the GREEN SUN, while horrible/painful for the Horrorterrors, is a "known quantity" they've "accounted for", and it's reach is only so far (after all, two universes out of infinity can only do so much). Perhaps LE's domain is steadily growing by him capturing/enveloping universes in the GREEN SUN's influence, and that's why the Horrorterrors need help.

The only loose thread so far as LE's plan is concerned has been B2, the Human Post-Scratch session. He can't go there the normal way for some reason. Maybe his hax code didn't work its way into the B universes or something. So, what does he do? He sends an agent to tie things up there. Hello Her Imperious Condescension Betty Crocker.

Now we have some surviving Trolls and the entire B1 Session heading her way, and our only hope is to somehow escape, and make a universe outside of LE's vast GREEN SUN domain, where he can no longer reach them. Paradox space would be divided into LE'S STUFF, with the GREEN SUN looking over it, and OTHER STUFF, where the normal course of SBURB and universe creation can go on without causing more harm than normal.
>> No. 66307
Cherubs are angels are servants/messengers of God.
Homestuck cherubs have no planet of origin and are somewhat frog-like in appearance.
Homestuck's most God-like entity we've seen so far, Skaia, seems to have the goal or purpose to create Genesis Frogs.

Maybe the cherubs are designated servants of Skaia (possibly even the players of the first ever session, if there is such a thing) and Lord English is a fallen angel, i.e. a lucifer analogue, who opposes Skaia by destroying what he should create or protect.
>> No. 66308

Is it Cherub or Cherubim though?
>> No. 66309
According to wikipedia, "cherub" seems to be the anglicized version of the latinized version of a hebrew word I can neither write nor pronounce, and "cherubim" one of three viable plural forms of "cherub". The other two being "cherubims" and "cherubs".
>> No. 66310
I mean is she the little cupid version of an angel(Putti a.k.a. Cherub) or is she the six-winged covered from top to bottom in eyes version(Cherubim)

i'm basically wondering whether she is a harmless fic writing child or a wrathful fic writing prophet who will potentially fuck shit up
>> No. 66312
Also, is there any significance to this update being posted on fathers day? Maybe uu/UU are LE's kids?
>> No. 66316
An ancestor/descendant relationship maybe?

Option A: Calliope is going to follow suit with the other sessions we've seen and scratch it when she find that she can't wake up on Prospit. uu becomes Lord English as an adult, similar to how Meenah became a blight upon her world and the next after the trolls' scratch.

Option B: Lord English is one of their ancestors who made it into their game like how Dad made it into John/Jane's game despite not being a player.
>> No. 66324
File 13399729773.gif - (2.00MB , 303x228 , UN BEBE.gif )
. . . Huh.

Well, this was unexpected. I'm actually kind of impressed LE has his own species, most stories never bother to explain their "demons."

. . . I may have to keep up with updates again now. God damn it all.
>> No. 66326
What if instead of a green cheeked lil Cal, UU's juju is a squiddle?
>> No. 66330
So if Calliope is a Muse and we have a Bard running around listening to Lil' Cal, maybe he is actually taking subversive orders from Calliope and stuff

Maybe those trolls had to be killed off in order to fight LE
>> No. 66332
>uu has a weakness for candy
>possibly becomes LE, who is a sort of demonic mobster kingpin
>DMK was partly defeated by candy
>trickster modes

>> No. 66336
Seems like this update confirmed that the heroes of Time and Space are essential to any successful session, and that there isn't any specific class(es) that is(are) essential for it(many people thought you had to have at least a Knight and Seer).
>> No. 66341
>Seems like this update confirmed that the heroes of Time and Space are essential to any successful session
Where are people getting this
>> No. 66342
> UU: and that we coUld overcome oUr conflicts, work together, and fUlfill the game's minimUm reqUirement of two players. one of space and the other of time.
>> No. 66343
I think it was stated that space player always creates bilious slick, for one
And time really coincides with space.

If proven that space and time players are essential , it would also imply that the alpha session is barren or dependent on the intervention of existing space and time players.

Still, I don't recall s/t being essential in the first place...
>> No. 66344
But the alpha human game...
>> No. 66345
It was always meant to be an 8 player session.
If you'll recall, we have a Space and a Time player, in addition to Breath and Light, on their way to join them.
>> No. 66347
Yeah playing devil's advocate. It was stated (by UU?) that the green universe was going to be DOA anyway, requiring an en vitro of sorts from another session. Nothing new. Just odd that Skaia would allow a time/space-less session to be created in the first place, regardless of special circumstances.
>> No. 66348
Maybe Skaia knew that the Space+Time players would successfully join the session?
>> No. 66352
Human session: Red-eyed time player, green-eyed space player
Troll session: maroon-blooded time player, jade-blooded space player
Cherub session: red-blooded time player, lime-blooded space player

Guys, what's with the christmas colored candy bullshit in Sburb's highest-priority aspects.
>> No. 66357
Enyalius is another name for Ares (Who has a relationship thing with Calliope in mythology.)

It's eight letters.
>> No. 66365
Complimentary colors, bro. Still, they could have gone with another combination, like blue and orange, but who has orange eyes?
>> No. 66366
>> No. 66368
>blue and orange
Vriska and Tavros
John and Rose
breath and light
>> No. 66369
>blue and orange
John and Rose?
>> No. 66373
god tier
>> No. 66374
But unlike the red and green thing I noticed with time and space, shit isn't really consistent outside of god tier outfits. Cerulean and Chocolate, okay. But Rose was never associated with orange in any way prior to god-tiering.

Part of what baffles me about the christmas colors thing is that it's so...consistent. No cris-crossing like the blue player being light in the troll session and breath in the human session. ESPECIALLY when green isn't even the color for the space aspect outfits. Color coding of player's personal colors with their aspects isn't even half this consistent for the other roles in sburb. Also, two is not a pattern. Three is where you can start calling things "a pattern."
>> No. 66392
Isn't cyan complementary to red.
>> No. 66393
Depends on what color wheel you're using. If you're using the old-school RYB system painters use instead of the RGB system computers use, red's complimentary color is green.
>> No. 66395
Calling it now. LE won't be able to bring himself to harm Roxy just like how Bec Noir couldn't hurt Jade because of the small part of Bec in him. And it will be more heartbreaking because they'll have to put him down.
>> No. 66396
Just came over from HSG#140 with a whole mess of IDEs.

Hypothetically, if exiled carapaces repopulated a dead world, they would prepare their own session of Sburb to play through. And we know things besides carapaces go through Skaia's defense portals, like players and First Guardians.

I'm guessing the Felt were exiled angels from Eridan's land, based on their similarity to the cherubim. I think UU/uu were exiled angels from some other Hero of Hope's land (Jake's?) who started up their own session.

It's a tidy origin story to LE and the Felt, though it might not fit with what Calliope said about Cherubim not having their own planet.
>> No. 66399
Another thing it doesn't fit into is how Eridan's angels have wings and a tail, while UU and LE have neither.
>> No. 66415
uu ends up tearing the UU shackle off in a fit of rage, and that's how LE's peg leg was born.
>> No. 66424
When I saw UU's room the first thing I thought (other than wow there's a lot of raw meat) was how she could keep uu from getting to her fanart and destroying it. It seems like the first thing he'd do every time he got control, and yet she's accumulated enough to fill a hard drive.

Each of them has their own shackle and puts it on before going to sleep, which limits each one's range of movement. uu's side of the room must look pretty horrifying.
>> No. 66449
Figured it out. UU and uu represent the two main halves of the yin yang symbol (a symbol and its meaning being things that pop up almost constantly in Homestuck), and their individual jujus (2 u's) represent the small bit of their counterpart that exists with them. Even the way they talk reflect this, with uu speaking in ALLCAPS with only "u" lowercase, and UU doing the opposite.

LE is what happens when the small counterbalance juju has been compromised (ie. Dirk's dead juju), rendering the whole being off-balance. It goes further though. The small core of one half's counterpart represents the beginnings of the entire half becoming its opposite. Meaning in the natural order of things, LE is destined to become his polar opposite over time. This is why uu wants the dead juju half destroyed, so LE can continue being completely "in the black" without any chance of balance or change.

Unfortunately for uu/LE, UU's true power may come into play once she's dead, being the Muse (through influence in others like Rose, Terezi, possibly Gamzee, and other balance-oriented or fiction-inspired characters) which is the master passive (assumed to be most powerful when dead) class, of Space (influences reaching characters across multiple universes).

An ideally balanced LE would be one where the master passive is the one in active control of the body, with the master active being in passive control. Just like a balanced yin yang symbol.

Why does the Tumor look like a yin yang symbol? Not quite. Let's take a look at it: http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=005565

Notice there's a black small counterpart in the white (passive) half area, but none in the black half. Another sign that the small part of Calliope in the LE equation, her juju, has been extinguished.
>> No. 66450
I'm confused at why are UU+uu presumably willingly shackled themselves. They couldn't have shackled the other person seeing that Calliope mentioned that she never met uu in person.
>> No. 66451
It's probably part of the bizzare-ass "game" they're playing with each other.
>> No. 66453
that makes perfect sense

>When I saw UU's room the first thing I thought (other than wow there's a lot of raw meat) was how she could keep uu from getting to her fanart and destroying it.
>Each of them has their own shackle and puts it on before going to sleep, which limits each one's range of movement.
dumb theory time: calmasis is more than a metaphor, there's literally someone or something in the middle of the room
>> No. 66468
File 134017638530.png - (28.49KB , 640x400 , Uu.png )
Unless they and the other person inhabit the same body. See:

The overlap between the ranges is probably where they played their game of chess.
>> No. 66474
>there's literally someone or something in the middle of the room
What if it's dead Hussie?
>> No. 66476
So that is where some of the meat comes from?
>> No. 66478
About the white green and red painting.

I saw a post somewhere with the writer comparing the painting to the Slick shooting Snowman scene in [s] Cascade. The part where you see the bullet fly across the screen with the red and green background.
>> No. 66487
Guys! I know this is going to sound insane, but I think that Calliope might be Doc Scratch.
>> No. 66488
They're certainly similar (polite, lying through omission, etc), but I'm not sure how one goes from being a female skull alien who loves their friends and hates uu, to being an animate male puppet first guardian who abuses little girls and takes pride in being LE's "host" and weapon.
>> No. 66489
Probably by merging with Dirk Strider.
>> No. 66497

I'm wondering if this means that Calliope's soul is still "alive" somewhere (possibly inside Li'l Cal? His eyes are almost the exact same as hers and uu/English hates him to hell, also it'd explain where the puppet got his name from), or if it's just that uu/English murders his sister, hollows out her body to use as a puppet, and gestates inside that body to full maturity.

Either way, English is an incredible fucking douchebag.
>> No. 66504
UU's juju is that orb on LE's gun/scepter
>> No. 66510
I got it!

They need both jujus to escape where they are because the jujus serve as a host for their new body. uu has Lil Cal while UU has the Cueball that makes Doc Scratch's head.

No clue whether only one is supposed to make it into the new body or if uu is being a selfish shit.
>> No. 66525
The red supergiant near Calliope's planet is going to turn out being the nearly dead Green Sun.
>> No. 66528
Preposterous. The Green Sun is not inside any universe. It does not have planets orbiting around it, and even if it did, the inhabitants would not be participants in an ultra space frog's reproductive cycle. Moreover, if it can never be destroyed (as Aradia claimed) then it can't have a life cycle like a normal star, because it would eventually self destruct.

If you turn out to be right I'll buy you a case of beer.
>> No. 66542

Calliope's juju is Li'l Cal. He is dead because she is dead. All along Li'l Cal has been the hero Homestuck deserves. He is the most important character, the hero who will end Lord English.
>> No. 66560
After that update I'm convinced they're in the universe that the humans will create.
>> No. 66576
WV will get ahold of the other ring of orbs nofold and help PM fight Jack and Droog together.
>> No. 66577
File 134035238427.png - (93.33KB , 500x294 , tumblr_m5zakdHn7W1ql6ko7o1_500.png )
so there's this.

commence your "oh SHIT!"s.
>> No. 66578
UU is a child of karkat and some green blooded thing.
>> No. 66579
Well..UU living on the meteor explains how she got the book.
>> No. 66585
Observation: 1) Calliope is a space player, meaning part of her quest involves a physical transformation. 2) After her dreamself was killed, she stopped pretending to be a troll. 3) The glimpse we got of her dreamself was not terribly informative, showing us only that she is humanoid and wears Prospit pajamas.

Hypothesis: Calliope's dreamself was a troll.

Wilder hypothesis: At some point her soul will wind up in a troll's body.
>> No. 66596
I've got a theory about the sessions in general.

We know that the most important players in session are Time and Space players. If they are in the session, they can either perform scratch or create a new universe. Now, creating a universe is more of a Space thing (creating a new space) and scratch is more of a Time thing (it's kind of going back in time, besides it creates a new alpha timeline).
So far, we've seen two completly played sessions. In trolls' session, Aradia, the Time player, was dead at the begining of a game, and Kanaya, Space player, was all right. In kids' session, Dave was all right at the begining of a game and Jade's dream-self was dead.

My theory is that a session is dominated by one aspect. Space and Time are the most likely to dominate, but, if they are no players with these aspects, another player dominates the session - like Roxy in Void session. If a player is dead or partially dead while joining the game, their aspect is stopped from dominating a session.

If a dominating aspect is Time, a scratch happens. If Space, a session creates a new universe. With any other aspect dominating, the session might be either lost at the beginning, or it may lead to completly different way of winning (or just ending) a game.

Also: Jake will fall in love with UU/uu. Just think about that skull.
>> No. 66601
But she's green, not blue. :C
>> No. 66605
ok let's be real here, he loves skulls way more than blue ladies

he doesn't have a blue lady tshirt or a blue lady helmet, and he doesn't gush 24/7 about how much he loves blue ladies to literally everyone

he would drop blue ladies without a second thought for a skull lady
>> No. 66607


>> No. 66608
File 13404713529.gif - (21.09KB , 650x450 , 05093[1].gif )
Oh come on. That idea is just ludicrous.
>> No. 66609
>Wilder hypothesis: At some point her soul will wind up in a troll's body.
No Calliope will become a Dersite and join the Midnight Crew and then she will be Midnight Calliope
>> No. 66610
File 134049046211.gif - (106.57KB , 650x450 , ps000014_3.gif )
She doesn't need to become a dersite, though.
>> No. 66612
That's what I had thought. Hell i bet you could overlay it on the pic of LE during his debut, when he was honking
>> No. 66613
Pre-scratch troll prediction: The Handmaid is wild and angry and hatecrushes on everybody and flips them off and says t0m0t a bunch
>> No. 66617
This makes me wonder what the MC would look like as Prospitans.... I really need to read Problem Sleuth
>> No. 66621
It just occurred to me that if act 5 is two parts.. and act 6 is six parts.. then technically Homestuck should end with thirteen parts, not counting intermissions. Here's the thing though.. since we're nearing the end it'll probably be done this year. That means it's a 13 part story written over a period of 4 years....

>> No. 66637

>Done in this year

>> No. 66638
Ehhh... It would have to finish on or around 4/13, which is admittedly way more breathing room than some time this year. But yeah that's absurd. It could take another year after that.
>> No. 66661

When I said "done this year" I meant this year of Homestuck. IE 4/13 - 4/13. There's no way it'll be done in 2012 but we are clearly moving towards a conclusion.
>> No. 66730
so how 'bout that Prince of Heart

Maybe Heart players are designed to be difficult to eliminate, carrying different fragments of people from across Paradox Space forward to the game's conclusion.
>> No. 66731
so how 'bout that Prince of Heart

Maybe Heart players are designed to be difficult to eliminate, carrying different fragments of people from across Paradox Space forward to the game's conclusion.
>> No. 66734

Why the hell Nepeta didn't do all this interesting stuff? All she did was ship people.
>> No. 66735
Because she gave up on her quest and died for it. Just like Tavros and Equius.

Speaking of Nepeta, it looks like Karkat's little "50 Nepetas" rant was some kind of foreshadowing about the powers available to heroes of Heart. Also, maybe she'll be able to use them to come back from the dead later on. You never know.
>> No. 66747
He DID mention before that he may splinter but he'd never break (to uu)
Either that or Jake's Hope powers are capable of imagining up extra lives.
>> No. 66748
Nepeta is a Rogue so different abilities. I speculate that her shipping can bring people. Hence, Dave and Tavros in their Hellbubble.
>> No. 66830
crazy idea: what if uu's juju isn't a magic cueball like everyone thinks, but instead it's....

The bunny.

Think about it! It's one of the few items that has multiple copies like cal, has cross universe interaction like cal and has been owned by a player.

Jane still has a version of the bunny in her house right? When uu "gives" her juju to Jane, she'll destroy her own, thus activating the one jane has as the real one.
>> No. 66831
I hope (haw haw) Jake can do that. Would be such a game breaker.
>> No. 66864
> Cal and Calliope have same eyes (sidenote: Lil' Cal has eyelashes, a trait only depicted on girls in homestuck and other cartoons)
> uu expresses revulsion and fear towards lil' Cal, beyond the understandable "oh fuck a creepy doll," tells Dirk not to say its name
> uu calls Calliope "Cal"
> Cherubs associated with mummies and sarcophagi; ancient egyptians created dolls to house the souls of those dead whose mummies had been destroyed

Guys this is kind of dumb, but what if Lil' Cal is actually possessed by a dead Calliope.
>> No. 66868
That would be so sad in a myriad of ways :(
>> No. 66887
not really b/c that would mean dirk and by extension dave were raised by calliope. and that's kind of awesome.
>> No. 66898
>raised by one of your fangirls
>> No. 66899
That depends entirely on Cal's level of mobility. Remember that it's only been shown to move on its own accord twice in the entire comic, and both of them were critical to it, one way or another (On Derse, it made Rose throw it out of the window which was the reason it could reach the Ectobiology lab. And then there's the suicide we just witnessed.)

And then there's Calsprite.

Either way, if Callie's spirit is inhabiting Lil' Cal, she has spent several lifetimes travelling the universe and the timelines, trapped in the mostly-immobile body of a doll. And iquite possibly driven entirely fucking mad to the point of being unable to even talk.
>> No. 66901
This is kind of horrifying actually.
>> No. 66915
Plus she was torn apart twice (by Dave and the meteor which landed her on Derse) but resewn both times (by Dirk/Bro and Kanaya).

If Calliope really is Lil Cal is also means we as an audience spent most of the story hating and fearing her for how she looks, thinking of her and violence done against her as a joke, cheering when we thought she was gone for good. The only character in the story who showed her real affection was Dirk, and even then he was flailing her around to scare Jack and use her as a weapon.
>> No. 66916
How can Calliope be inside Cal, we know exactly where he came from, there's nothing that could link him to her.
>> No. 66917
All this talk about Callie being Lil Cal made me think of something, what would be Dave's reaction be when he finally encounters any of the Cherubim? We already know he is kind of creeped out by Lil Cal, so what would happen if he met the creatures that inspired Cal's form?
>> No. 66918
Agreed. This is almost as stupid as wondering where Lord English comes from when we already saw that he's Doc Scratch.
>> No. 66920

Doc Scratch summons Lord English. He can't possibly BE Lord English because Lord English is "already there". Gamzee didn't create Lil' Cal , he summoned it into Dave's dream. This dream Cal later goes with Dirk through the meteor to where the Alpha kids are. uu referred to Lil' Cal as a "Juju" and UU told us that there can only ever be one Juju. It will eventually become it's other selves. Most likely Dirk's Dream Cal will get a wardrobe change and go through the Skaian defense portals in the Alpha Sburb with the baby Bro, back to the Beta universe where it will then begin its journey into the Trolls universe via Jack and inevitably end up as part of Doc Scratch. Gamzee most likely summoned Cal from uu/UU's (his mirthful messiahs) universe which explains the relationship of them to Lord English.
>> No. 66922
I don't know what world you're in mister, but in mine we all love and are highly entertained by lil Cal. Lil Cal is awesome.
>> No. 66935
I think that maybe the Cherubs are one of the craetor races; like... on the totem pole of sessions their's was the first one to come into play. And so all universes are created from the data of their, meaning that they all have universal constants like Lil'Cal and Will Smith and so on.

Doc Scratch might be a Cherub but then again he could just be created using one of their artifacts (Lil'Cal). So maybe he's just like... Cherub-spawn??? Nah, I don't like that.... Seraphim Spawned? They were the top angels right, and warriors to?IDK
>> No. 67005
oh man oh man

One of the things gamzee is gonna prototype post entry is dirk's body.

So there can be ANOTHER Dirk.

>yfw when he uses dirk and roxy's bodies on one spirte to make Rork or Dixy
>> No. 67009

What happens if you prototype Lil' Hal
>> No. 67064
With, say, Calliope?

Let's see. Take his smugness, pride, intellect, and controlling attitude, and mix it up with her saccharine charisma and tendency to lie through omission....
>> No. 67065
File 134189811584.png - (384.70KB , 640x480 , You dont belong in this world.png )
>> No. 67066
All those fireflies that followed John around on Lowas, who could they have been? The only other ones we've seen are Serenity, and the one in Dirk's lantern. Maybe the Lowas ones are souls originally from Jane's planet, by some twist of time travel bullshit.

Also LE/uu helmet kissing lil Hal/"Cal" is totally symbolizing uu kissing UU.
>> No. 67069
That is a horrible idea.

I completely approve of it.
>> No. 67071
The fireflies were an explicit part of the Land of Wind and Shade's mythos. John was supposed to free them because typheus had trapped them there.

What I'm wondering is why the hell there are fireflies in the lamps.
>> No. 67072
Not all of them. Just the amber one. 8^y
>> No. 67074
Think about it seriously. We know LE is a cherub. We know he shares a body with Scratch. We know Calliope's methods of deception are suspiciously familiar, and her sketchy voyeurism would only be more shameless than ever with omnipotent perception.

If uu is LE, it's plausible that Doc Scratch is Calliope's "side" of the body, repurposed somehow through inscrutable magics. But if they share so many suspicious similarities, why aren't they more similar? Is there another personality in there somewhere that picked up some of Cal's quirks?

Let's assume there is. Quick, enumerate the candidates for such a role and point out the ones that currently seem to be turning evil.
>> No. 67124
File 134198231022.gif - (124.76KB , 650x450 , 03609.gif )
I just noticed something.
There's a slot shown for a component of Doc Scratch OTHER than lil' Cal and the cueball. We can't what object is in that slot, but...
>> No. 67125
I assume it's the tick t0ck 8r8k h34ds code.
>> No. 67126
File 134198335715.gif - (24.81KB , 650x450 , 01928.gif )
Yeah, it's just for the genetic sequence needed to make the first guardian. The slot in the trolls' session is huge because part of the code was written on Karkat's giant ~ATH manual.
>> No. 67132
I wonder how much that code did besides just granting him FG powers. I mean, it was split up into five parts and Aradia's narration implied LE had directly manipulated them into writing some of it. Is the code all you need to summon LE? Is the cueball necessary? Is Cal?
>> No. 67135
The code being responsible for summoning Lord English would have some interesting implications, considering most trolls that wrote it were Prospit dreamers under Skaia's influence.
>> No. 67136
Influence? There's a Muse for that. I'm thinking there's a Calliope-related twist in those codes.
>> No. 67138
My interpretation is that the DNA sequence used in First Guardian creation is just to make them First Guardians. Doc Scratch gets his mojo from the cue ball and the juju, which provide his world-shaking deduction and his parasite's identity, respectively.
>> No. 67143
One of the headcannons I've seen is that Dave Bro and Bro and Dirk are black; but I seem to remember a headcannon that John and Jade were like... Hawaiian or something. Was that a thing?
>> No. 67144
Jade specifically gets Pacific Islander traits more commonly than any other ethnic minority.

Probably because she lives on her grandfather's private Pacific island.
>> No. 67296
Never seen black Dave/Bro/Dirk, care to share fanarts?
>> No. 67299
So who wants to bet that Jake's kernelsprite is the only one not fucked over by gamzee post-entry
>> No. 67300
>> No. 67310
THERE CAN ONLY EVER BE ONE applies to everything. All of the trolls that died had to die for the kids to god tier.

>Ex. Tavros had to die so that John could claim the aspect
>> No. 67311
Aradia was alive before Dave ascended though.
>> No. 67313
Wish I had some on hand. A couple weeks ago I saw a shitload of them. It was kind of a funny mix, too, because in half of them they had either African facial features or dark skin colors but not both. There were also a bunch where their hair was drawn as dreadlocks.
>> No. 67317
I'd think time is kind of is its own gray area, though.
>> No. 67318
Random dumb theory:

Cherub eyes are removable. When uu wakes up he's going to get mad at Calliope for not taking hers out, and then replace them with ones of his own choosing - possibly ones with black sclera, like Jigsaw's eyes. This is the reason uu's eyes are hidden when he's watching all the kids get killed by the miles - to hide the fact that they're not just a pallet swap of calliope's eyes.
>> No. 67321
Black eyes with red irises would be nearly the exact inverse of Callie's eyes. Makes sense.
>> No. 67323
So apparently when you factor in Ophiuchus' sign into things, it takes Scorpio's water alignment, and Scorpio ends up being air, with Libra being assigned as a general balance. That could be why there's been several heavy handed references to Mindfang/Aranea being drawn to air (the former abandoning her fleet to take to the air, the latter being "long winded" in prose and referred to as a "windfang", etc.) and drawn away from the water.

It's interesting to note that accounting for Ophiuchus only affects Scorpio and Libra, by giving Libra's alignment to Scorpio, and taking Scorpio's for itself. Could have influence for why the short Redglare/Mindfang rivalry had karmic consequences for Terezi and Vriska (even if the favor is stacked oddly), and why Scratch mentioned a favor imbalance between the two.
>> No. 67352
So who wants to bet that jake dies in EoA6_3?
>> No. 67418
Prediction: If Roxy goes god tier, it will be via some third method that has not been previously seen and will involve breaking the games code apart itself, making her literally a hackster goddess.
>> No. 67522
Void symbol looks an awful lot like a black hole doesn't it? Ihope roxy is somehow affected by it.
>> No. 67528
Trickster Roxy has a huge red/green swirl lollipop. There's no way she won't have something to do with it.
>> No. 67537
I think someone might mention calliopes in front of Lord English in an offhand way, like Gamzee talking to Nanasprite about their hobbies, and Lord English happens to overhear and switch back to being Calliope.
>> No. 67552
You know that fangirl-celeb moment? That with Calliope LE as the fan and the survivors as the celeb. She has Dave sign her wand, but he draws a dick and tells her it's his John Handcock. John feels like he was dragged into the joke, being a John himself.
>> No. 67595
I'd like to point out that Sollux is proof that personality traits can affect or foreshadow having multiple dream selves. Though it is stretching it quite a bit, Nepeta may well have 9 dream selves. She could just be hiding the remaining 8. Remember, her "death" wasn't captioned with "DEAD" like every single other official death of a player. (Unless I'm forgetting something.)
Basically, if another troll dies (thus opening up the possibility of a resurrection to fix the 6/12), we have something to consider here. Or I could just be too hopeful for my own good.
>> No. 67597
Given that Dirk has seemingly an endless supply of selves, it could make sense that Nepeta would as another Heart player.
>> No. 67598
Let's expand on this theory.

Dirk is a Prince of Heart - a hero whose nature is to destroy "selves", or alternatively, to make "selves" destructive. His personal schtick seems to be a splintering of self, and each fragment able to act independently (and be sacrificed if needs be - e.g. the head-in-a-sendificator trick).

Nepeta is a Rogue of Heart - a hero whose nature it is to redistribute hearts/souls/selfhood benevolently and subconsciously. A stockpile seems more Thief of Heart-esque, to me; it's Vriska who piled up luck into an unshakeable stronghold, while Roxy's redistribution of Void seems to favor shielding her team and loved ones.

If Nepeta survives, perhaps it's that there's a fragment of her in all of her surviving friends - that some portion of her lives on in their memories, waiting to be reunited.
>> No. 67599
So Karkat wasn't kidding about meeting those fifty Nepetas.

>> No. 67602
>If Nepeta survives, perhaps it's that there's a fragment of her in all of her surviving friends - that some portion of her lives on in their memories, waiting to be reunited.
Wow, that's really sweet. So, she would live on in their hearts (and eventually come back.) That's just adorable and really... Nepeta. I like it.
>> No. 67603
Anyway, that was really well thought out and lovely. I'd like to bring up once again that a troll will have to die to facilitate her resurrection. (Most likely, anyway.)

(I vote Karkat because drama and "you're too late.")
>> No. 67631
The original Intermission was in between Act 3 and Act 4. Act Six's structure roughly mirrors that of the previous 5 acts, but condensed. We have currently left Act 6-3. It is time for a new intermission.

But will it be A6I3, or Intermission 3?

The writer's self-insert is dead. We ended the act-act with lord english destroying the afterlife and what was likely his younger self trying to enter the medium. Also, we still don't know what's up with the "?" on Clover in the DEAD TALLY panel.

Judging from the progression of green curtains in Seer: Descend, the pre-scratch kids will only enter the new session in A6-6. If each intermission in act six represents a year (with A6I1 being year zero), then there's an intermission to spare between A6-1 and A6-6.
>> No. 67634
>destroying the afterlife
See, I've heard multiple people interpret the flash that way now, but I'd been construing it as localized damage - that particular dreambubble, plus the surrounding fabric of paradox space and the horrorterror limbs that got caught in the blast.

Did I miss something that would indicate wider-scale damage?
>> No. 67635
Maybe it was one of many dreambubbles he's intending to destroy?
>> No. 67636
Nah, it was probably just one dream bubble. There are probably lots and lots of other bubbles floating about, and I don't think Kubo is quite done with Aranea, Meenah and the rest of the A1 trolls.
>> No. 67642

Wow that is one heck of a freudian slip there. Homestuck isn't THAT bad.
>> No. 67643
Of course, that makes you wonder what or who, exactly, he was gunning for when he blew it up.
>> No. 67644
Haha, don't you worry. That was written minutes after a discussion on/lolfest at Kubo's latest trolling.
>> No. 67677
so what are people's theories about active/passive class pairs?
here's what I came up with:
>> No. 67678
There's a theory going around that each aspect has two different shoe colors to indicate whether a class is active or passive. So the Light aspect has red shoes for active classes (Thief, Prince) and blue shoes for passive ones (Rogue, Seer, Sylph, Bard). Assuming this is true, Heir should be in the same column as Page (both active or both passive), and Maid should be in the same column as Knight.

Anyway I feel like the B1 kids are either paired with each other (Witch/Seer and Knight/Heir) or all paired with other classes (eg. Mage/Seer, Witch/Sylph, Maid/Heir, Knight/Page). Mostly though I don't care how it turns out so long as Jane can do an Ace Dick autoparry with her healing abilities.
>> No. 67679
the only not explicitly told to us class combo i'm confident in is Heir/Knight.
Heir - "someone who is protected by/protects himself with X" both heirs have shown passive abilities that protect themselves using their powers.
Knight - "one who protects others with X" neither Knight has gone particularly out of their way to attack someone leading me to believe they are defenders rather than agressors. Both Dave and Karkat protected their space player, Dave saved John and Jade from death through davesprite, and if blood is leadership/friendship like people think, Karkat stopped red and blue killing each other through taking control of both teams.
>> No. 67680
Well, Witch/Sylph was hinted at long, long before we even knew classes came in pairs. I'm also quite certain that Seer/Mage is another one, since both deal with prophecies and the future.

Really, at this point the only thing that's still unclear is how to pair Page, Knight, Heir and Maid. I personally like Knight/Maid and Heir/Page.
>> No. 67681
i'm feeling more maid/page.

Maid - one who creates x for herself. Jane makes life to revive herself, aradia stopped Jack to make time for herself.

Page - one who creates x for/in others.
Tavros was about to do some sort of breathey thing kiss revive to maybe revive vriska's realself without using her dreamself?
>> No. 67682
Pages are apparently all about potential and growth. While we haven't seen much of Tavros, Jake or Equius' quests, I feel that John's quest had a lot to do with potential.
>> No. 67683
I dunno. "In thrall" seems to be a big part of the Maid archetype, and that gets glossed over if you couch it as a creator class.

I also think Heir and Page are linked - they both seem to be classes about growing into your power.
>> No. 67685
>I dunno. "In thrall" seems to be a big part of the Maid archetype, and that gets glossed over if you couch it as a creator class.
You just blew my mind. What are the odds we'll see Jane unable to kill herself to be with her loved ones?
>> No. 69788
File 135312808193.png - (104.86KB , 720x791 , tumblr_m95qpxB4ij1r20bzvo1_1280.png )
>> No. 69789
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