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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 137139906890.jpg - (688.67KB , 1679x2199 , enabled mysogyny gaming.jpg )
176205 No. 176205
Have you ever, in any way, felt legitimately offended by a video game?

Obvious stuff aside, I feel kind of angry when writer expect you to feel emotional when the writing is really shitty.
Expand all images
>> No. 176206
Being jaded as fuck, no not really.
But finding out from the Remmber Me team that they cant not have the girl kiss boys because "the gaaay" really made my blood boil! (if you dont want I am talking about see: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7044-The-Creepy-Cull-of-Female-Protagonists )
But that has more to do with shipping then gaming...
Speaking of, would Alister Fletcher and Lara Croft make a cute couple?
LOL WHATEVER, WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
Haha, fuck off shit-game industry~
>> No. 176207
I can't recall specific situations; I might have been offended in some games' use of hand-holding. I know I got mad a few times in Skyward Sword when Fi would jump out and act like I have no fucking idea what to do even though the game just showed me, but I don't know if it ever offended me.

Of course, I don't take offense to anything not aimed at me personally, and games never are, so maybe that's why.

Also, I can't tell if your image was made by a legit misogynist or an elaborate troll.
>> No. 176208
>>176205
I'm offended by this thread.

Posting someone's creepy fetish image like that disturbs me.
>> No. 176209
Never. I might have been mad about a game being bad, but never offended. Then again, the only time I remember ever being offended was at two chicks chuckling during the minute's silence we had at school the day after 9/11. And that was before I became utterly jaded by 4chan.
>> No. 176219
>>176207
>Battletoads
Sounds like trolling to me.
>> No. 176220
File 137141365095.gif - (230.22KB , 265x400 , the Inferno by EA.gif )
176220
Only by Dante's Inferno because of how thoroughly it dicks over classical literature in general.
I'm fine with artistic interpretation, but that was just dumb pandering.
>> No. 176223
No, but certain things in a game/in an interview with the creators of a game have royally pissed me off:

- Female characters existing entirely for sex appeal, having no personality at all whatsoever
- Fetishizing underaged female (and sometimes male) characters
- Trying to act like there's no reason anyone would have an issue with rape
- "Gamers don't want to see a penis, who would be attracted to a penis? That's gross."
- "Who would want a gay option?"
- "Girl protagonists are boring, who would want to play a girl?"
>> No. 176225
im offended whenever a game gives me another white dude to play with no other options and they expect me to be excited about it. generally speaking unless its an rpg with a big cast of people, if your game doesnt have create-a-character, my level of care decreases dramatically (see the witcher)
>> No. 176226
>>176225
That sounds hilariously reactionary.

Losing care just because of the playable characters race or gender.
>> No. 176227
>>176220
Un-huh, but what about the manga?
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Dante-s-Divine-Comedy/Dante-s-Divine-Comedy-Chapter-1?id=50989
>> No. 176228
>>176226
thank u anonymous dude ill be sure to forever consider your opinion about my own personal feelings toward video games (ノ´ヮ´)ノ*:・゚✧
>> No. 176230
>>176226
When you make ten games in a series and every fucking character is a 20-something white dude with brown hair, and there's no option to make him look otherwise, it is justifiable to start wondering if the developers are lazy, unoriginal, racist, or all three.
>> No. 176232
File
Removed
The entire third game. The ending just sours anything good for me. Then there was the fact that I was "entitled" for thinking a half assed last minute attempt at looking deep was bad.I'll go back and reply the first and secondbut fuck that game. The multiplayer was the only good aspect.
>> No. 176233
>>176232
I'm really glad I stopped at the first one.
>> No. 176235
>>176227
Wow.
This is actually pretty great. Certainly more faithful than that game at least.
>> No. 176239
>>176233
Eh 2 was ok. Storywise it wasn't as good but its not godawful.
>> No. 176240
>>176230
At least they don't have blond hair.
>> No. 176241
>>176230
Is the character's identity integral to the story or series itself? Is he iconic? Does it make sense for the setting?
>> No. 176242
>>176241
>same brown haired dude over and over and over
>iconic
ok bro
>> No. 176244
File 137144082187.png - (221.87KB , 191x296 , MarioSMBW.png )
176244
>>176242
>> No. 176249
Not offensive, but I think it's weird we're still allowed to (and/or actively punished for not) do double taps in modern military shooters.
>> No. 176253
>>176249
You... totally are allowed to double-tap? But most games aren't "MUH REALISM" so it might take more bullets than in real life to down an enemy anyway.

Also if you want to get picky its not "double tap 1 - 2" in real life anymore, its "Fire until they stop moving"
>> No. 176255
>>176242
Your racism and misandry are shining through Nurse.
>> No. 176258
File 137144410346.jpg - (35.53KB , 598x286 , BIJvD7NCYAA-ySr.jpg )
176258
>>176255
lol misandry 4 life baby
>> No. 176262
>>176241
If it's an original setting, you get to decide what's "normal" for that setting, or not.

Video game settings, even ones based on real life, rarely have dark-skinned or female protagonists. Even though that happens all the fucking time in our world.
>> No. 176263
>>176253

I meant the execution kind of double tap. The kind where you shoot an armed enemy combatant, then shoot them again after they either drop their weapon or are no longer combat effective.
>> No. 176264
I haven't played the Witcher games, but I've read the first two books. The reason Geralt is a white guy is because he, like other witchers, drank this weird herb concoction that turns them all into albinos if I remember right. So typical "albinism is tied to weird magical shit" stuff.

Not that I don't agree that we need more diverse protagonists, but "protagonist is a white guy" is a dumb reason to hate something by itself.

Well the best vidya MC last year was probably Lee from Walking Dead, so there's that.
>> No. 176268
>>176264
Yeah, not to mention a lot of games like AC2, Bioshock: Infinite, or the later MGS entries take place in real-world settings or times where it would be highly unlikely for a character who isn't a white and probably dark-haired male to end up in the situations that they are or have the freedom to go about in the way a video game character would. I see the argument "It's not supposed to be realistic, it's a videogame!" thrown around a lot, but I think even the most open-minded gamer would probably still raise an eyebrow over an FPS set in 1930's Lower Manhattan that stars a black female commando, even if demons and dragons are involved.

The best solution is simply to have more games with nonwhite or fantastical settings where such characters would be more common in the first place. I wouldn't mind playing games in worlds based on Vodun mythology or a futuristic Inca-esque empire. But that also requires game developers to do the research and cover them with some degree of maturity.
>> No. 176269
>>176268
>I see the argument "It's not supposed to be realistic, it's a videogame/fantasy/comic!"
I am so very sick of seeing this crap everywhere.
When you create a world, you create confinements of believability. If you move outside those boundaries that you set, you damage the suspension of disbelief.
How is that not inherent knowledge? Just being unreal is not enough to make all nonsense acceptable.
>> No. 176270
>>176269

Plus? http://www.psmag.com/culture-society/video-games-dominated-by-whites-3561/

90 percent of primary (as in controllable) characters in the games surveyed by this study were men.

We've always had women in militaries fighting on the frontlines, ruling countries, social revolutionaries, pirates and criminals. Not to mention that there's tons of untapped potential in mythologies and real life stories belonging to cultures that just don't get touched on by games these days.

There's no reason to not to make more games with those kinds of protagonists and playable characters, especially since the current "percentage" isn't reflective of real life in any respect.
>> No. 176271
>>176269
But there is still a place for over the top going even more over the top Gurren Lagann style, right?
Like MGR:REvengeance or this vid here: Hatsune Miku & Megurine Lu…youtube thumb
>> No. 176276
>>176226
>questioning the default makes you racist/sexist

Why don't you tell me more about how women and minorities are the reason of all our problems?

>>176255
You asked for it.™

>>176269
>Magic? Acceptable.
>Giant robots? Acceptable.
>Mutant superpowers? Acceptable.
>Female or nonwhite protagonist? IMMERSION BROKEN

Your definition of "unacceptable nonsense" speaks for itself.

Put your name back on, you're not fooling anybody.

Before you complain about that not being your intention: context matters.
>> No. 176278
>>176276
>>Magic? Acceptable.
>>Giant robots? Acceptable.
>>Mutant superpowers? Acceptable.
>>Female or nonwhite protagonist? IMMERSION BROKEN
>Your definition of "unacceptable nonsense" speaks for itself.

WOW way to not get the point he made.

Say you make a videogame in set in World War II where aliens suddenly invade and the allies and axis have to join forces to repel the threat. Your main playable character is a high-ranking officer of the US military. Would it make sense for this main character to be female? Would it make sense for this character to be black (or any other race)? Fuck no. This is an established period of history. Regardless of what aliens, magic, dragons or other fantasy bullshit you put in this game, everything was pretty much as we know it UNTIL the aliens invaded. There were no female/colored officers in the US army in World War II (that I know of, at least), so making your main character a colored woman who is also a lieutenant just doesn't fit with what history tells us.

It's different if you make your own setting, of course, but any setting based on reality should accurately portray whichever part of human history it's based.
>> No. 176280
>>176276
>Magic? Acceptable.
>Giant robots? Acceptable.
>Mutant superpowers? Acceptable.
>Female or nonwhite protagonist? IMMERSION BROKEN

>Your definition of "unacceptable nonsense" speaks for itself.

>Put your name back on, you're not fooling anybody.

> you complain about that not being your intention: context matters.
Fine. Names back on but I think you'll find I'm just as much as a nobody with it as without. But my point has more to do with contextual setting as a whole. You can't just add realistic guns to Mario and claim its fine because its unrealistic anyway. Same if you just make Mario a young Taiwanese woman. It just doesn't make sense in the context its in. Don't be mad at games with white males as the leaders. Encourage more games with diverse characters to be made instead.
>> No. 176281
>>176278

http://www.sfwa.org/2013/05/guest-post-we-have-always-fought-challenging-the-women-cattle-and-slaves-narrative/
>> No. 176285
>>176278
...Yes there were. If I remember correctly, African-American soldiers were fighting back in the Civil War, and there were all-black units in WWI.

The Soviets in particular had an all-female unit of pilots.
>> No. 176286
>>176281
I don't see how this is at all relevant to the example I posted. There definitely were black soldiers who were treated much worse than their white colleagues. There may have been some women disguising themselves as men to fight on the frontlines. But, as far as I'm aware (I have to admit I only checked Wikipedia because I didn't want to spend 30+ minutes on an internet argument), there were NO female or black officers in the US military during World War II. Therefore, if you're writing a story for a videogame, a book, a movie, a tv show or whatever, if your main character is an officer in the US military you shouldn't make them black or female.

You COULD write a great story about a female french hero of the resistance who fights against the nazis, but that wasn't the example I posted. Like >>176280 said, your story and the characters in it need to match the setting they're in.
>> No. 176287
File 137147866048.jpg - (36.43KB , 349x407 , ResistanceCoverArt.jpg )
176287
>>176278
>Say you make a videogame in set in World War II where aliens suddenly invade
Wait I have played this.
But it was less about teaming up and more getting curb stomp because the aliens was a zombie virus.
And I do remmber it having that chick from her majesty's secret service and that black guy from the co-op mode that no one in the cast gave a fuck about.
>> No. 176288
>>176286

The point is, no matter what era you're drawing your history from, there are models for female action heros.

Also, these ladies never stopped being a thing.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's_Army_Corps
>> No. 176291
>>176288
Great. Push for that. Just don't get mad at people just because a male is represented in a setting where it makes sense.
>> No. 176292
>>176278
>Say you make a videogame in set in World War II where aliens suddenly invade and the allies and axis have to join forces to repel the threat. Your main playable character is a high-ranking officer of the US military. Would it make sense for this main character to be female?

Works for Metal Slug.
>> No. 176295
Thus we see one of the problems with using World War 2 as an example, there is precedent for EVERYTHING be it in fiction or reality surrounding the event.
>> No. 176303
File 137149102733.jpg - (40.00KB , 600x466 , 1364553874273.jpg )
176303
Honestly the way I see it the people clamoring for a female or black protag rarely put down money for it.

Take comics for instance. People bitch that women aren't represented but a book like Glory comes along and they ignore it.

Frankly I'd rather someone wrote something well instead of worrying about appeasing everyone. I think tokenism is actually worse than doing nothing.
>> No. 176306
>>176292
True, but that game was already pretty tongue-in-cheek to begin with and I don't think they were supposed to correspond to any actual military organizations, some of which did allow women officers but many which also didn't.

In a more realism-based WWII game, if you're going to star a female or racial minority then special care should be given to their circumstances. Maybe point out to the player through the narrative that yes, there were indeed companies of females or minorities occupying certain combat positions in the war effort that your main character is a part of, making it educational as well. Or in the case that they aren't, maybe they belonged to the fictional 9999th Regiment where those were accepted. Alternatively you could acknowledge that while normally they weren't allowed as officers, maybe your main character is a a special circumstance. Sergeant General Carlita Valenzuela-Takeda, who was entrusted with a super secret recon mission, shouldn't just be dismissed as "normal" with the burden of suspension of belief placed on the player, especially since even in-universe most characters would probably find it unusual unless there's valid historical reasons or knew about it ahead of time.
>> No. 176307
>>176303
Glory died cuz it was bad, gorgeous art or not.

Also bullshit, the problem here is not tokenism but homogeneity, which is a central problem in the industry in a lot of respects as it is with comics even more so.
>> No. 176308
>>176303
>Liefeld
That was because it was shit. People aren't going to buy something that's objectively terrible, no matter how progressive it is.

On the other hand, having more talented women (not shit like Devin Grayson) in the industry like Gail Simone is much better. Especially since through personal experience they would know how to write the minorities in well in question without making them tokens.

As an added bonus I'd say Gail Simone writes male characters better than a lot of actual men in the industry do, so everyone wins.
>> No. 176311
File 137149703436.jpg - (97.87KB , 600x480 , caping the dame.jpg )
176311
I only see one problem with the women in the military.
And its not with the women.
But can we get back on topic before thing gets so lost I can start talking about trains and it not out of context.
>> No. 176312
>>176307
Uh, Tiki I think he meant tokenism would arise from blindly trying to combat homogenity.

Let's try not to jump down each other's throats while talking about this stuff.
>> No. 176315
>>176308
I would not say that's completely accurate. Hudlin was a terrible Black Panther writer. On the other hand Priest had a fantastic run. Jungle Action,a run praised by Dwayne Mcduffie as the best Panther he read was done by a white guy.

I really don't see the hype surrounding Simone. Ryan Choi was cool and Secret Six was a better Suicide squad than the new 52 but that's it. Batgirl is terrible.

What I'm saying is make something good, fuck worrying about trying to please every single person. I mean is not having your race/gender/ethnicity in really going to turn something awesome into a giant pile of crap. I'd rather have good characters rather than complete stereotypes.

Still liked Glory.
>> No. 176316
>>176312
Wasn't trying to, but gotcha.
>> No. 176317
File 137150225789.jpg - (343.96KB , 970x701 , shoot that guy.jpg )
176317
The primary notion of the first Bioshock always offended me in kind of the same way that the Randian works that inspired it offend me.

>Game so corridors/on-rails it physically hurts
>Get to end of game
>Told that you are basically a slave because you followed all their narrow-ass corridors
>DEEP AND PROFOUND
>Ignores all tenants of good game design and what makes video games interesting

It wouldn't bug me quite so much if this wasn't the whole point of the game.
>> No. 176319
File 137150358364.jpg - (333.60KB , 643x960 , GLORY23cover.jpg )
176319
>>176308

>Liefeld

Wrong Glory.

>>176286

>female french hero of the resistance who fights against the nazis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor:_Underground

Probably the one game I can think of where that happened.
>> No. 176320
>>176317
Oh my God. Thank you!

Seriously. I spent the whole game trying to look around for secrets and other areas only to be funneled down a path sense it was the only option available, and that makes me a tool.
It reminded me of cheap mind reader tricks. Where you lead the subject through limited options and claim that you knew their will.

Its a shame though because the bioshock worlds are so interesting, but the game play and exploration is so small. Feels like they would be better books than games.
>> No. 176321
>>176317
Oh my God. Thank you!

Seriously. I spent the whole game trying to look around for secrets and other areas only to be funneled down a path sense it was the only option available, and that makes me a tool.
It reminded me of cheap mind reader tricks. Where you lead the subject through limited options and claim that you knew their will.

Its a shame though because the bioshock worlds are so interesting, but the game play and exploration is so small. Feels like they would be better books than games.
>> No. 176337
>>176317
I got an even bigger problem with the first Bioshock.
FUCKING THINGS KEEPS KEEP FUCKING UP SO I CANT BEAT IT!
First time I lost my save do to ylod and when I finally got around to retry it a plotdoor bugged out on both my save so I cant go forward.
FUCK!
Dont help that I really want the brass balls trophy so I played with on hard with a hand behind my back...
Both times...
*sigh*
And it did have sideways with hidden stuff so its not super straight.
Also I did not know where to go next a lot...
>> No. 176343
Ok, even if we accept that it doesn't make sense to have a high ranking woman/POC character in a given story because of when it's set, why keep doing that? Why do developers keep going back to these worlds and settings where it only makes sense to have a scruffy white male brunette as the lead? Why not pick a different time period or just make something up? Why even give a shit about historical accuracy as long as the story rings true?
>> No. 176344
>>176343
Really, I think the simple truth of the matter is that white male game developers make white male main characters because that's what standard for them.
>> No. 176345
>>176344
You're probably right. Goddammit. You would think people involved in video games would be more imaginative. If I can write stories from the point of view of straight men and lesbians when I'm a straight woman—if when I was a child, I could play a game of pretend with myself as the T-Rex from Jurassic Park—then why is it so difficult for developers to come up with someone who isn't a straight white dude?
>> No. 176355
>>176345
Well, my own personal feelings on the matter, which are in no way an absolute truth, is that ethnicity/gender/sexuality aren't very interesting or matter much, and thus i seldom think about it but focuses on other stuff. This may be because I am a straight white male and have 90% of all main characters are made to be like me anyway.
>> No. 176356
File 137157363521.gif - (261.17KB , 300x223 , 2ccFq.gif )
176356
>>176355
>ethnicity/gender/sexuality aren't very interesting or matter much

In a detached sort of way I can understand where you're coming from, but that's kinda fucked up. I guess you mean that you're not choosy? Or something? Do you just not care at all about the player character? (I do not mean this next question in a condescending or combatitive way at all. Just curious.) Have you ever had to think critically about representation of minorities/women versus straight white men in fiction, and why that might matter a lot?
>> No. 176358
The point was not "keep doing straight white men and lock minorities out," it was "dropping something just because the protag is a straight white man is dumb."

I'm all for more of Lee from Walking Dead, or Samus, or whatever, but Jensen being straight and white doesn't make Deus Ex HR a bad game.
>> No. 176359
>>176356
If the game/characterization is good I do care about the main character. I guess I'm just not choosey about it. That, for example, Faith was a woman did not deter me from playing Mirrors edge, nor did it give me problem with immersion. But i doubt it would have been different if she was a guy. Although, thinking about it, had Mirrors Edges main character been a generic white dude with short brown hair and stubble I would probably have been less interested, but only because it was uncreative.

I have however longed for more games were you get to play weirder stuff, like robots and skeletons and lizardmen and such.
>> No. 176360
>>176358
>rodyle
hahaha

and two what the fuck you guys are you all autistic? i never said i dropped something i said my enthusiasm for it decreases

this place is terrible
>> No. 176361
>>176360
Yes please. Fuck off forever.
>> No. 176362
>>176359
Pretty much this.
>> No. 176364
PEOPLE BEING OFFENDED ABOUT VIDEO GAMES OFFENDS ME
>> No. 176365
LOUD NOISES
>> No. 176367
>>176365
I knw it's probably weird, that's actually something I'm concerned with. How loud are those consoles going to be? Is it something they even concern themselves with? If the PS4 is going to end up being as loud as a Gamecube, that might actually be a dealbreaker for me until they get out some better models.
>> No. 176368
>>176367
so wait do you prefer things to be louder or quieter, I lean towards louder.
>> No. 176369
>>176345
Its not.
The Lost World Jurassic Park G…youtube thumb
Jurassic Park: Warpath PSX (T-…youtube thumb
Primal Carnage - T-Rex Gameplayyoutube thumb
Or atlest it did not use to be like this...
And to sort off quote the Street Fighter movie, it fells to me that the mainstream gaming industry has lost its balls.(and grow big greed dick but thats another post)
Why this is I dont know, maybe its the whole economy tanking thing and/or idiots pointlessly chasing the Call of Duty money.
And I am not just talking about EA here.
The sad thing is that that is not even CoDs fault that its this/last gen Counter Strike.
But props to them for putting all their money into a solo campain that the main cod players dont give a fuck about.
Yeah CoD is basically the madden of shooter and I am sick of corps using it a template for EVERYTHING because of it.
Hell I would put down money on that if like the next next has you play a gay black guy for most of it, it would still not lose any sales.
I already said why.
>> No. 176371
>>176345
The thing is, as a straight white male, you kind of live in a little bit of fear of fucking up any other characters you do. A gay black woman as the lead protag is as far from my own experience as I can get. I can write her, yes, but I'm not sure I could bring interest to her character beyond just making a character and then having her act out what I think she should act out. The problem is somewhat like simply replacing a male protag with a female protag. The Female Protag still kind of acts like a male protag and it's jarring. I don't mind stepping out of my comfort zone, the issue is that I feel like it might come off as cheap or just a gender-swap. Hitting checkmarks on the "privilege" lists instead of really talking about peoples' issues.

>>176369
The funny thing about CoD is that up through MW2, the story and the single player were actually kind of interesting. You felt like they were getting at some point about the ludicrousness of war and violence, and the sheer insanity of anyone trying to take on odds like the game presents. In this, the story was kind of secondary; the game itself was about the ludicrousness of war, and it was baked right into their gameplay sandbox, right up to the Nuke killing everyone if one player achieved more than anyone else in multiplayer.

Every game since that has been riding MW2's creative coattails without any true innovation or driving point. They're just shooters that have been tweaked for the competitive gaming scene now (to their loss, imho).
>> No. 176375
>>176360
You said you got offended by it. Which means you're gettin' mad at videogames for what a lot of people have pointed out was a misguided reason. Next time channel your emotions in a more constructive direction.
>> No. 176381
This is reading a lot like "polite privilege check: the thread"
>> No. 176382
>>176368
Why would you want your consoles to be loud? That's horribly distracting and it drowns out the sounds of the game your playing, which are kind of an integral part of the game.
>> No. 176384
Imma post this just because http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sexism_videogames
>> No. 176385
>>176384
Speaking of "indie" games, as an transferroavian otherkin I find Angry Birds hugely offensive and trivializing of the issues many of my fellow avians suffer from. Not to mention the whitewashing of many others such such as Porcine American supremacism.
>> No. 176389
>>176375
nah
>> No. 176391
>>176371
See, this is why you talk to people and ask about their experiences. See if they'd be willing to take a look at your work to make sure you haven't gone horribly wrong somewhere. Reading/watching things created by people similar to your own characters can also be helpful. No one creates in a vacuum. Believe me, as a straight white woman, most of your concerns are mine as well.
>> No. 176392
>>176371
Film Critic Hulk had a response to this line of thinking:
>A LOT OF TIMES HULK QUESTIONS WRITERS ON THIS POINT AND GET THE RESPONSE “I don’t know how to write women!” WHICH IS RIDICULOUS. IF YOU SAY THAT, YOU’RE INADVERTENTLY SAYING YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO WRITE “PEOPLE.”

I would say the same line of thinking applies to homosexuals or black people or whatever.
>> No. 176404
>>176391
I remember Ashly Burch said she interviewed the Saint's Row writers, and they apparently ran all the jokes in front of their female/black/transgender friends, who were all apparently okay with them.

What's okay to one person isn't okay to another, though, I think that's fair to say.
>> No. 176418
>>176404
Saints Row was kind of tame in my opinion. I couldn't imagine someone getting offended by it. That's just me though.

Honestly I still think in trying to change things is fine. You want a black lead? That's fine. Just write it well. Hell look at Larry Hama's G.I.Joe., a huge team composed of different races, genders and backgrounds. Scarlet was just as badass as Snake Eyes. Thing is there were no "oh no the girls have to save the day because the men are incapacitated" issue. I mean there was an issue in Special Missions but that wasn't Hama's comic and it also features Firefly using weaponized hot dogs, so yeah. I'm just saying worry about putting out something good first, if its great and you aren't deliberately going out of your way to piss people off you're doing fine.
>> No. 176420
>>176418
>You want a black lead? That's fine. Just write it well.
A big part of this is, I think, that more games need to write black characters as a guy/girl that's black. They don't need to be defined by being "black"; no ghettoid voice, love for rap music, or other stereotypes. White guys in games don't go around saying how they'd like some mayo on their sandwich or a lawn really needs to be mowed or they could go for a Bud Light; so why should black guys do similar things? Or anything from the male/female divide.

The exception to that would be if a focus of the game might require it, like a game that has racism or race-relations as a large part of the plot.
>> No. 176423
>>176420
Exactly. We don't need to be reminded every five seconds that they're black.

Hell I like dudes and I was a little offended by Steve Cortez in Mass Effect 3 because it was constantly brought up. I mean you play chess with Traynor, learn more about her and what not. She doesn't even bring up her orientation all that much, just a comment about edi once. Steve's whole character was wrapped up in him being gay. I mean I was fine helping him with his grief but I was actually offended when Bioware interpreted "don't make me an anchor" as go fuck somebody a couple on months after your partner died horribly. That's about the closest I've gotten to offended actually.
>> No. 176424
>>176420
I think it depends.

Some people who are very [insert any culture here] make it a huge part of their life. Some don't. African-Americans are no exception. Same with women. Some women are very feminine. Some are very masculine. Some are in the middle somewhere. That's why writing any group of people is tricky, and you'll always have one person telling you you did it wrong.
>> No. 176425
>>176375
Nurse has recently taken to complaining about things and then turning right around and asking why people would care about these things/saying opinions don't matter to her.

It begs the question of why is she bothering to post about it in a public place if it's such an inconsequential topic and she has no interest in discussion.
>> No. 176427
>>176360
>this place is terrible
It's gamer culture in general that's terrible, I think. I've become increasingly convinced that there's no saving "gamers." They're too happy being awful and there's too much of an echo chamber encouraging them to greater depths of awfulness.

But it's hard to find communities made up of people who play and talk about games but who aren't gamers, so for now, we're stuck talking to gamers when we want to talk about games.
>> No. 176428
>>176427
Frankly whenever discussion is had about sensitive topics someone comes running in and saying how awful everyone is, no matter the media or how tame or not the discussion. I'm not sure such people actually want things to progress at all.
>> No. 176429
I'm just glad Japan never has to put up with this "muh representation" shit and can continue making games that are fun without the gay black tranny otherkin womyn demographic starting shit.
>> No. 176430
>>176429
I suppose there are a few benefits to being a homogeneous, xenophobic society.
>> No. 176431
>>176430
das racist you can't say negative things about people who aren't white do you even tumblr
>> No. 176432
>>176429
man did you just compare black people and gays to otherkin
>> No. 176433
>>176317
Speaking of Bioshock, does anyone have links to the early gameplay demos?
>> No. 176434
>>176420
If you just write the general character first and make them female, then you'll run into the converse issue, where there will be folks complaining that she's not "feminine" enough. They'll accuse her of still being a Generic White Male template wrapped in a female coat of paint, who serves to further glorify masculine ideals at the expense of feminine ones. And then there will be some in the black community who will accuse black characters who act as you just mentioned of being Uncle Toms for not exhibiting any of those characteristics.

Frankly a lot of the people who use these lines of argument come off as SJW level idiots, and the implications are pretty dire. You smile when greeting costumers, shake hands, and don't talk in AAVE? Sellout! What, you're wearing button-up shirts instead of basketball jerseys and expensive flashy jewelry? White identifier! Why are you majoring in STEM instead of women's rights or English? You only think science matters because you've been brainwashed by the patriarchy! Don't like makeup or dresses! Internalized misogyny! Sadly I've personally had those last two used against me.

But buried amidst it all there still is a good point. Why bother making your character visually different from the norm if in the end they're still confined to a very narrow range of characterization? True, in a world without gender roles a lot of women probably would act just like your male hero, but there are still those who would continue to enjoy feminine things like cooking and fancy dresses, and still be just as capable of heroic things. Whether or not it's a "good" thing that they do, women exist who prefer more masculine or feminine things, and black people exist who are or aren't into "ghetto" culture. If you only write your heroes as if none of them do the latter ever, it's tantamount to saying that while Generic White Males aren't the only ones that matter, you still have to "become" one to.
>> No. 176435
>>176427
What? This has been a fairly civil discussion with good points raised on both sides. Nurse is just mad because she espoused an ignorant view and people called her out on it and for her moving the goalposts, while still agreeing with the issues underlying it.
>> No. 176436
>>176428
I'm sorry. I just get depressed when I see how very lacking in self-awareness so many gamers are, and how very accepting of those people who use that lack of self awareness to abuse anyone who's "other" from them the other gamers are. In their unwillingness to engage in conflict with those who make the community toxic, even the non-horrible gamers are essentially expressing tacit approval of the toxicity that the assholes bring to it.

And what is the solution supposed to be? Both sides are motivated by a lack of social acclimation--the awful ones are actively antisocial, the ones who are avoiding conflict are just socially awkward, but in either case they have no genuine interest in seeing the toxicity eliminated.

But in the end, there's not much point in fighting it. Gaming is becoming mainstream--this is inevitable. And it is equally inevitable that once everyone plays games, gamers will not be able to maintain this exclusive club that allows them to maintain this toxic environment. Eventually, gamers will be forced to abide by the rules of society in general or be ostracized for their assholery.
>> No. 176437
File 137161811924.png - (248.83KB , 600x400 , hahahahahaha.png )
176437
If you want more diversity in game protagonists, why not donate all of your money to the Arkh Project?
>> No. 176438
>>176437
You're a funny guy Anon, I like you. Thats why I'm going to kill you last.
>> No. 176439
>>176437
Did that shit ever even go anywhere?
Last I heard they wasted the budget on concept art.
>> No. 176440
>>176438
You just don't want to give all of your money to Arkh because you're racist and hate queer black womyn!
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