All the back and forth and whining on both sides have made me completely uninterested in this game.

>>173105
I don't know about you, but I don't play video games for social justice crusades, T&A, Kotaku arguments, burly men on Facebook, or unimportant shit like gameplay. I play games for the graphics, and Dragon's Crown has that downpat.

I just think it looks ugly as fuck.

>>173114
It's like Natalie Dormer. First you think it's hideous, malformed, disgusting,... but after a while, you begin to appreciate it's unique beauty. You'll never find a girl like her, so you obsess over her, and start threads about her on the internet. That's what this game is like. It's a Natalie Dormer game.

Is it fun to play?

Also I really like daring proportions so it doesn't bother me in the slightest and is actually on the plus side.

I might make the case that the ridiculous proportions are spoofing the standards that usually perpetuate media, but fuck that.

There is one thing you cant argue.

Its wins the "Most porn before actual release" reward.

I actually find this kind of whole-hog stylization much better than the usual sexy video game girl fair because it's being completely honest about its intentions.

There's no "wehhhh nooo but she wears little to no clothes because it's her culture/she's ttly sexually liberated you guys/whatever excuse i come up with this week", it's just "she wears little to no clothes because damn i like big titties."

It sidesteps the insidious sexism of video game character design by ramping it up to the point of parody. Which is more refreshing than the millionth iteration of breast cups and cleavage windows in what's supposed to be plate armor.

>>173119
>Is it fun to play?
I don't know. I never really thought of that.
>>173122
The ridiculous proportions are a design choice. Dragon's Crown depicts a fantasy world in which secondary sex characteristics are extremely overdeveloped and everyone has small heads.
>>173125
The porn is the only thing that kept people from calling this vaporware.

>>173126
I got that as the intention, and it's certainly better than say, garbage like Samara and Jack from ME2, but my issue with it was never really the sexism.

I just didn't think the designs look that good from a visual standpoint.

Admittedly it's been a long time since I looked at it, and seeing the characters in motion now, they do look better in the game itself (these are still the people that made Odin Sphere, Grim Grimoire, and Muramasa), but that concept art is still as dreadful as I remember.

>>173125
Probably.

I'm not sure if this is real or just a massive amount of bullshit.

>>173128

>Samara and Jack from ME2

You know, despite being for all intents and purposes topless for the entire game until you find her an outfit that isn't so embarrassing, I wouldn't say that Jack is particularly sexualized. She's basically topless yes...but she's just kind of there, being topless. Sexualization isn't a strict test of 'how much skin are they showing', it's about presentation, and her presentation isn't that.

Samara on the other hand...yeesh.

>>173130

That just reeks of apologism.

>>173132
I think Samara's presence speaks to at least some of the thought process behind Jack, but that's just me (and also that EA deserves not one once of credit).

>>173130
This is probably bullshit, and I think Kamitani would probably say so if he was shown it.

>>173132
> I wouldn't say that Jack is particularly sexualized

But... most of the conversations that you can have with her amount to "so, are we going to have rough, punk-style sex or not?"

>>173132
>Samara
>Stoic old woman.
>Only female character that isn't hopping all over male Shepard's dick.
>Never acts seductively or even alludes to sex.

Yeah, I'm not following that.

>>173135

That's not actually the case, but even if it was, I'm talking about presentation. Here, look at our first glimpse of Jack:

Mass Effect 2: Jack's Escape from Purgatory

When she first emerges, it's shot from a distance and obscured with mist and movement. Then it zooms in twice, making the second transition at the exact moment her bustline would reach the bottom of the screen. Then a series of zoomed in shots: on her hands, on her wrists. Even once she gets free, the lighting obscures most of her torso, and in all the action shots that follow her face is the prominent feature, not her breasts.

Compare that with Samara's introduction:

mass effect 2 samara recruitment mission

Samara is kept out of sight until we can get a slow pan up her body as she sensuously walks forwards on high heels, right up her cleavage. Then an unnecessary ass shot, and then Samara literally jumps out of a window tits-first. And throughout the whole scene she always stands so that her hips and bust as emphasized. Yeesh. She might have more skin covered but she's miles and miles away more sexualized.

(Honestly, I think it would have been better if Jack was actually just straight-up topless. Those weird leather straps were just...embarassing)

>>173117

Moe, I don't think Natalie Dorner's serene (and almost alien) beauty is an apt analogy for this.

I also think you should talk to someone about your unhealthy obsession with this one in a million, gorgeous, creature.

>>173119

The game's not out yet, BUT it looks like it's gonna play basically like an updated version of Capcom's Dungeons and Dragons arcade game. So, really, it depends on how much you enjoy side-scrolling beat 'em ups.

>>173148
>I also think you should talk to someone about your unhealthy obsession with this one in a million, gorgeous, creature.

I'm talking to you guys, aren't I?

>>173117
As I get older I tend to find more and more beauty in peoples' smaller flaws. So this post touches me.

>>173127
Aw yeah, Party Hard was sooo good!

>>173149

Well I guess it's cheaper than actual medical care. Now, tell me more about your obsession and when the hell Dragon's Crown is coming out.

>>173200
Sadly, it'll be out a full two months after the season finale of Game of Thrones, on August 6th. What will I do until then? How will I live?

>>173206

Wow, that long? In the mean time, I suggest posting unpopular opinions on imageboards and see who gets angry.

>>173117
>>173206
What exactly's wrong with this gal?

Honestly, I could care less about this whole bickering on both sides, the dumb anatomy thing and the sad attempt of kotaku for getting attention/traffic for their website. This game looks so damn fun and I wanna play the hell out of it.
I wonder if there's crossplay between both vita and ps3 versions.

>>173213
Nothing at all. The point is that it takes time for most people to realize that.

>>173216
I don't know if the online play is cross-platform, but I doubt it. People who buy the PS3 version don't get the Vita version for free, unfortunately.

You know what, I am gonna praise the game for the women being just as ridiculous as the guys.

>>173226
I wonder where all the "realism is the worst aesthetic" people went.

>>173227
Wow. Disregarding the connotations of the mondo tits, those gifs are animated really beautifully.

Thank you for contacting me; I am George Kamitani from Vanillaware.

I’ll go into detail about the reasons behind some of Dragon’s Crown design concepts.

I believe that the basic fantasy motifs seen in Dungeons & Dragons and the work of J.R.R. Tolkien have a style that is very attractive, and I chose to use some orthodox ones in my basic designs. However, if I left those designs as is, they won’t stand out amongst the many fantasy designs already in the video game/comic/movie/etc. space. Because of that, I decided to exaggerate all of my character designs in a cartoonish fashion.

I exaggerated the silhouettes of all the masculine features in the male characters, the feminine features in female characters, and the monster-like features in the monsters from many different angles until each had a unique feel to them. I apologize to those who were made uncomfortable by the art’s appearance, and did not see the same light-hearted fantasy in my designs.

I don’t harbor any ill-will to Jason Schreier for the article he originally posted about the Sorceress or his follow-up. Although it may be negative feedback, I am very thankful for having one of our titles being covered. I do understand what Jason and the rest of the discussions on the internet are saying for the most part. I am not sure if I can implement the critiques from him and others around the internet into my future artistic creations, but I will definitely keep in mind that these opinions are out there and affect people on a personal level. I feel that any form of media content faces death when it doesn’t receive attention at all. So, be it criticism or support, I am truly thankful for the people talking about Dragon’s Crown and the people discovering Vanillaware for the first time.

In regards to the Dwarf image I posted on my Facebook page: This image was never intended to attack Jason. Originally, it was a promotional image that I created for my fan base in Japan, which I posted to the official Vanillaware Twitter account earlier.

We receive many requests from companies to create publicity illustrations for the game, but we never received any requests for the Dwarf. Also, as the game’s street date nears, most retail shops start requesting exclusive art for their retailer-exclusive bonus items. In Japan, these illustration requests can even be as specific as something like female characters in swimwear. In these requests as well, the Dwarf was nowhere to be seen.

So, I decided to unofficially draw a sweaty Dwarf in a bathing suit, with a bit of cynicism towards those retailer requests. I drew 3 of them to show that there are character color variations available.

However, this image is something I created on my own, and will not see the light of day in any publication. I felt it was a shame to just throw it out, and thought I’d just post it on my own Facebook. That’s when I remembered Jason’s article and thought that I’d post it as a little joke with a comment. I used an automated translator to try and make a lighthearted joke in English, but clearly that wasn’t the case. I was very surprised to see the crazy aftermath.

It’s okay if it was just me who was criticized, but it is not my intention to cause problems for Dragon’s Crown publisher (ATLUS) and all the other people who are involved in this project. From now on, I will limit myself about transmitting something personal out in the public.

Also, it would be very appreciated if you could please contact Index Digital Media, Inc. if you plan to make anything related to this matter, including this e-mail, into an article.

Lastly, please tell Jason that I am sorry for causing him trouble, and also to please don’t let my actions cause him to shy away from Vanillaware products…

Good bye, and thank you.

>>173255
Lets see what rational and dignified response Kotaku gives
no I can't even type that with a straight face

>>173258
He's on NeoGAF calling people closet pedophiles.

>>173255
Very civil of him. And I agree with the point on the dwarf. I see women sexualized on a regular basis in game art, but not men, which is strange.

I like some things about the art. The women aren't in heels, they're all very muscular (even the sorceress, and sorceresses are usually frail waifs), not crazy about the clothing, but I don't think the clothing is sexist per se. I just don't personally design my characters in a way with revealing clothing (which makes me worry if I become a professional, I won't be hired). That doesn't make his designs wrong, though.

>>173260

Oh how wonderful. What did he say exactly?

Also, Moe, if you're wondering what to do with yourself between Game of Thrones ending and Dragon's Crown's release, Venture Bros. Season 5 will probably still be rolling along during that gap

>>173227

Man, this does look stupid. I can't even fap to that.

Hope the game's fun though. Might as well have something going for it! The art style (minus proportions) looks great, but the designs are kinda ass to me.

Even the characters without tits bug me here >>173112

>>173263
This.

When people corrected/quoted/madefunof/called out what he said, he went "I'm sorry I'm not a lolicon expert like you guys."

>>173274
Maybe its because my jaypeaneas is bad and I don't understand the lingo good, but I'm pretty sure he is all kinds of wrong about what lolicon means.

>>173288
The usage is different in Japan than in the West. Over here, loli pretty much exclusively refers to flat-chested youthful characters. In Japan, they actually do acknowledge the possibility of a baby face but big breasts, and if you've ever seen Haruhi Suzumiya, Haruhi explicitly refers to Mikuru (a character from the same series) as a character in that mold. But yes, in general a lolicon should be interested in underaged women, and even beyond the tits, nothing about the sorceress's design looks underaged. She has muscular legs and a well-defined face with no traces of baby fat, and her head-to-body ratio isn't particularly low either. She looks like a character in her twenties, not like a teenager. You can accuse the design of sexism, but I don't think it's at all fair to accuse it of sexualizing the underaged.

He probably just thought lolicon was the term for people who like cartoon porn or something. And Moe's comment makes me think that's already been pointed out to him and he basically accused everyone who told him he used that word wrong that they must be pedophiles if they know how to use words right.

>>173289
Honestly, how do dumbasses like this find work in the first place? I'd be horrified if I was running an online mag or whatever it is and one of my guys was like this.

>>173290
He writes grade A clickbait. This is the guy you want for your site. You seem to think a business needs integrity to funtion, which sadly just isn't true.

>>173289
>He probably just thought lolicon was the term for people who like cartoon porn or something.
This reminds me of when I used to go to Fark, and we had a threat talking about our favorite Anime, and the discussion started talking about Hentai. Some guy came in and completely spazzed on us, with things like "HOW CAN YOU LIKE THAT SHIT YOU'RE ALL HORRIBLE PEOPLE." After prodding him we found out he is/was part of some FBI child porn task force or something, and part of his job was to look at horrible images. All he knew of hentai was straight-up loli, so he thought that was all Hentai was. (It might have actually been Anime in general, I don't remember.)

>>173292
>After prodding him we found out he is/was part of some FBI child porn task force or something, and part of his job was to look at horrible images. All he knew of hentai was straight-up loli, so he thought that was all Hentai was.

>>173274

Wow, this guy sucks. Like completely. It's not even that I disagree with him (I actually kinda don't, since the Sorceress is extremely sexualized, but I feel like it's cartoony that it's actually more funny than offensive).

>>173292
>After prodding him we found out he is/was part of some FBI child porn task force or something, and part of his job was to look at horrible images. All he knew of hentai was straight-up loli, so he thought that was all Hentai was

Well, that's totally believable.

Well this got derailed...
And not even by dick girl magic...
Also I am a bit put off by the fact that is a disk game and not download.
Hopefully will still buy it if I have the money.

>>173298
Well, this comic and the accompanying text from PA proves that all they know about the game is the Sorceress and the logo.

I genuinely hope somebody pulled them aside afterword and explained to them why their joke doesn't work here.

>>173302
Seriously agreed.

>>173302
They probably know more about the game then you'd think from the comic.

>>173305
Love it.

Social Justice is killing art.

>>173305
>Sarcastic about it "Helping"
>Durdur Enlightenment

This just in folks. It's not good art if it's not furthering the viewer's subjective agendas.
Sage for stupid bitches.

>>173307
art's ben dead for a long ass time when people get away with putting pictures of cum, jared piss, and a super mario bros cartage in art galleries.

>>173307
Opinionated controlling forces is ruining art.

>>173307
It's not so much "social justice" as it is "social justice warriors". They could have started a decent conversation on this topic by saying "this might make people feel alienated" (like Penny Arcade did) or setting up an interview with the artist or whatever. Instead, they went "CHECK OUT THIS SHIT MADE BY SOME MANCHILD. YOU'RE ALL PEDOPHILES FOR LIKING THIS!"

That Livejournal/Tumblr/LeighAlexander "illscreamatyouuntilyouretoashamedtocontinuetalking" nonsense isn't conductive to a decent conversation.

>>173255
>I exaggerated the silhouettes of all the masculine features in the male characters, the feminine features in female characters, and the monster-like features in the monsters from many different angles until each had a unique feel to them.

Making your characters have unique silhouettes to stand out better is actually a pretty good idea from a character design standpoint (see: TF2), and makes me appreciate them more from an objective standpoint even if they're a little grotesque looking for my taste.

>>173311
I sorta agree with this. It's not wrong to bring it up, it's a worthwhile topic. It's just how people are going about it.

It can all be summed up thusly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3w1_E1V46M

Always humorous what gets hit and what gets a miss by that roving band. CoP its actually part of the plot her being near nude IIRC, something to do with Sword Power or something.

>>173315
What game is this?

>>173316
Code of Princess a beat em up from Atlus where one of the mains is the skimpy clothed princess with a massive sword.

Classic Game Room - CODE OF PR…

>>173307
Weren't you that guy who said it was sexist for women to want to play as women characters or something?

>>173317
Oh my God I could use a beat'em up so hard.

>>173321
I've heard its good from those that like beat'em games. Its big thing is that you can play as just about any character you encounter in the plus mode I think. Its a 3DS title so I've been thinking of snagging it when the tax refund comes in.

>>173318
Knowing him, I don't doubt it.

One of the best arguments I've heard re: how women are depicted in video games is to think of each game is part of a total mosiac. There's nothing inherently wrong with a hyper-sexualized chainmail bikini female character, but if all of the female characters in video games are like that, there is something very, very wrong going on.

Atlus has in general a good record when it comes to nuanced, relateable, non-HEY LOOK AT MY TITS female characters, especially compared to other companies, so if they want to have an occasional game where a character is defined by her huge knockers, sure why not. And they even get points for having the dudes be just as exaggerated.

>>173323
I also agree with this. There's no way they're ever going to get rid of sexualization in any media. Many artists/writers/etc. are never going to stop doing that because it's what they like. It's just when people say "this is how it is and there's no alternative way to write or draw a female character" is when it bothers me.

>>173324
>It's just when people say "this is how it is and there's no alternative way to write or draw a female character" is when it bothers me.
Does anybody remotely respectable actually say that though

>>173326
Depends on your opinion of John K. HEY-OH!

>>173327

>>173324
On another site, they were justifying the Sorceress' character design with "sorceresses have to be sexual, that's just how they are". So in some degree, yeah.

There are also some people who won't play a character they don't find sexy.

>>173326
No one reasonable has outright said that, but that's still the status quo.

What I'd like to see re: females in vidya is pretty much the inverse of Soul Calibur. Instead of 90% of the female case being sexed up with characters like Hilde as rare exceptions, 90% of the female character concepts and designs would go beyond how to best showcase their cleavage and thighs, with a few sexpots left over. Women get their heroines, straight men and lesbians get their T&A, and everyone can have fun.

>>173318
I, don't think I said that?

I do hold the belief it's inherently sexist to prefer a female or male character exclusively at all.

>>173348
Why?
It's a natural process for some people. It's just preference.

>>173348
P sure it was in the last Bioshock thread, someone brought up women wanting to play as women so they can identify with the main character (cause someone else said "the main character is always a straight white male cause people want to be able to identify with the MC") and someone, pretty sure it was you, said something to the tune of "They want to replace a male character with a female one? That's sexist as hell and really hypocritical of them."
I mean, even if you weren't the one who said that in particular, I remember you saying plenty enough that I immediately discredit your opinion on anything like that, but yeah.

>>173315
>>173317

You know, I saw this game on Amazon Months ago and have been wondering if I should buy it. On one hand I love beat 'em ups, but on the other I hate grinding. Didn't know that you could pretty much play as anyone or anything that appears in this game. Now THAT'S interesting.

And no ranter remmbed Elf-chan...
Also I may have re-found the ULTIMATE theme song for this game!(or for the Dwarf atlest)
I'm He-Man and I know it. LMF…
So anyway, want me to storytime that Party Hard Hentai?

>>173377
On Second thought, I dont fell like it tonight.
Just take this link: http://www.fakku.net/series/dragons-crown
Im gonna go and watch Robocop on Netflix.

>>173378

T4, I'm fairly certain you can't post porn on this board anyway. I think linking it is a grey area, but probably at least frowned upon.

>>173380
I'm pretty sure the consensus reached a while back is that linking to offsite adult material is acceptable (though courtesy dictates you let it be known that it's NSFW, if it's not obvious), and an individual posting an occasional NSFW image on a SFW board is permissible as long as it's properly tagged as such. (Which is basically what the Hentai Recommendations thread is, and Anonex has given that the OK.) Storytiming an entire hentai, whether tagged or not, would not be permissible though.

If I'm in err and a mod would care to correct me though, please point out my glaring misunderstanding.

(THAT SUMS IT UP.)

>>173359
Oh, it certainly wasn't me then. I don't play overrated and hyped up AAA garbage like BioShit and if I did say that it was some lost memory of parodying social justice and/or like you said, pointing out the hypocrisy in the so called equality. But yeah, I don't think I've ever even clicked that thread. I stick to TF2 and few others.

Thanks for your opinion though. Mine in exchange.

>Elf trailer released
>No one has posted it in here
Let's fix that, shall we?
『ドラゴンズクラウン…

>>173423
Huh. I thought her voice would be more cutesy/squeaky.

>>173427
Her voice seem pretty cutesy/squeaky to me. Unless you're confusing her voice with the narrator.

So yeah. I've been keeping up with the whole trainwreck "gaming Journalism". I have to say, fuck Kotaku. If I could I'd buy 10 copies of this game just to spite their ass.

>>173255
You know. I wish he had said this the first time in a way that didn't make it look like an attack on someone's sexuality. Considering that he created the picture to show that everyone can be sexualized.

>>173435
I don't think they would care about that since they already got what they wanted: attention and web traffic.
This won't be the last time will see that dirty trick again, sadly.

Sensationalist journalism causes uproar and attracts attention? Wow, I am shocked. SHOCKED I tell you.

Also objectification and sexualization are not necessarily the same thing, and people should stop treating them as such. They are two separate things that very often coincide, but they are not the same thing in and of themselves.

>>173443
What are the differences that separate them apart?
I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I really would like to know the key differences so I don't make that mistake myself.

At least being offended or feeling like you have to be offended is, to me, better than those people who say "I am not offended by this game, but I also feel like it has nothing to appeal to my interests, so I will complain loudly and be upset when other people happen to like it".

>>173444
Sexualization is making something sexy. Objectification is treating a person like an object.

I think a good way of explaining objectification of female characters is treating them like they have no agency; no autonomy or control over themselves and/or their surroundings. Basically, they're helpless and can't do anything on their own.

Let's take this Dragon's Crown sorceress business for example. Is the character sexualized? Most definitely. Does the character objectify women? I really don't think so, she's with the other characters kicking ass and saving the world or looking for treasure or doing whatever it is they're trying to do. She's capable and she's doing stuff effectively, presumably of her own free will. Not objectification.

You could make an argument about the media setting unreasonable standards of appearance for women and cite this character as an example, and you would definitely have a leg to stand on in that conversation. But objectification? I don't see it here.

Many would claim that sexualization leads to objectification, that's an argument I've seen a lot of feminists use against porn. I disagree with this notion though. I mean, it works if you use the definition of objectification only in terms of it makes you focus more on their physical attributes than on their personality, but that effect is intrinsic to good looking people in general, and being good looking doesn't change how capable someone is. They can still be a unique person with a great degree of control over their lives. Being sexy and having agency are two separate issues.

Like I said though, they often coincide. You can have a female character who is both sexualized and helpless, and mass repeated exposure to that can obviously lead to warped views toward women. But this isn't one of those cases.

I am gonna put my foot in my mouth and admit everything I just said may not be true anymore though. Objectification and sexualization have been used together so frequently that they're quickly becoming synonymous, if they aren't already. I would say that started with misuse or misunderstanding of the word, but once the new definition becomes commonplace that's kind of a moot point. Words change. I mean, dictionaries nowadays give two definitions for "literally", one being a claim to not be exaggerating, and the other being just an emphasis on exaggeration. These new definitions may not be technically incorrect (anymore) but they do cause confusion and make it difficult to communicate clearly. Sorry if this is one of those cases and my current understanding of the word is wrong.

>>173456
Again, depends on the feminist, ultimately. I've seen some who argue that /not/ liking or supporting porn is anti-feminist, because you're not letting them express themselves sexually and that that's inhibiting. But no group will ever agree on anything 100%.

SOMEONE REMEMBERED THE ELF!
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7196-Boob-Wars-and-Dragon-Crowns
I also love the flow of the orignal argument.
>fuck your art
>no fuck you fag
>no fuck you!
>FUCK YOU ALL!
>*deep breaths*
>I am sorry
>no I am sorry
>lets talk about this without raging
>okay
And yet "everyone else" is still angry.
So all I can do is talk about is futa on musle.
Because zero fuck given about the giga boob problem.
Especially from a Bitch Slut Rapist.
This whole thing is funny when you see her as a person and not art. A bad person.

>>173471
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>173482
I thought he was clear enough.

>>173471
>>bitch slut rapist

She's...not a rapist. And I don't know about the character's sex lives irregardless of what they wear. Bitch, maybe. Bad person, maybe. We are talking about murderous treasure hunters, right?

>>173471

We get it, T4, you really liked Party Hard and it really got your rocks off. Listen, I love porn as much as the next creep, but there are better places to talk about porn than plus4chan's gaming board (Like /pco/, plus4chan's porn board).

Please shut the fuck up about it.

>>173493
Really, focusing so much on that may not be the best way to show she's not just a sexist wet dream.

I can't bring myself to care what bitches think about sexualization because Sherlock, Dr. Who and the entire Yaoi genre prove that women are just as fucking bad, maybe worse since they get to do it criticism free

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

>>173512
OhBoyHereWeGo.jpg

Here we go where?
He's pretty spot on.

Feminist equality is as much about equal treatment as this thread is about Dragon Crown.