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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 135697667354.jpg - (336.54KB , 960x1115 , xiii.jpg )
167978 No. 167978
When you read all the hate online, it's easy to think that FFXIII was the blunder of the century, but it sits comfortably in the the top 10 best selling FF games. Its sequel, while not as successful, still sold ok. And with its limited development costs it probably made a decent profit.

Unfortunately... it doesn't like SquareEnix will learn any lessons from FFXIII. The decent enough sales will only encourage them to do more of the same with slight variations. Final Fantasy is finally dead.
Expand all images
>> No. 167981
>Dead since X-2
>One of the best 3D FF games.

More like "Dead since they fired everyone who could actually make an RPG and set their focus on fanfiction drama setpieces stuffed with CGI cutscenes."
>> No. 167987
You know, I used to hate you for this moe, but now I find it kind of cute. It's you and X-2. Tiki and Drakengard. Rodyle and Deadly Premonition. It's that one irredeemable piece of shit that every nerd has that they can't help but defend.
>> No. 167988
It took me a while to realize, but being a bad sequel doesn't mean it's a bad game. It's like Mass Effect 2.
>> No. 167989
Yeah; you can have a game that, relative to the first or source material, is bad, but taken in its own light and ignoring what it's trying to emulate or follow-up it can still be a decent game.

Star Fox Adventures is this way. If you ignore that it shoehorns the Star Fox franchise, it's a fairly decent game (IMO, anyway.)
>> No. 167993
Well it makes sense to me that it sold so well. It had a lot of hype, plus it was released on TWO major consoles, 360 and PS3, instead of just the sony console.

The story in the game was awful. The characters were boring. The combat just plain sucked.
>> No. 167995
>finally have a female main lead
>make her as unlikable as possible
>go back to spiky hair bishies forever
>> No. 167996
I stand by my idea of it being 1970's style to improve it, but still I mark it a kill date, though honestly I think the garbage MMOs are a million times worse.

Drakengard is marred in innumerable ways, it just happens to also be really fun, by the by it's objectively just mediocre. You can't call it an irredeemable peace of shit anymore than I can call it a masterpiece.

>make her as unlikable as possible

This I don't get, She's just Cloud sans Zack....oh wait, no this sums it up perfectly, since Cloud is only good via the transitive property from Zack.
>> No. 168000
I agree, it was quite solid as far as Zelda clones go and the graphics were really nice to look at, even if the Star Fox elements and final boss fight were pretty lame
>> No. 168003
Japan: See, no one wants strong, female leads! We'll put them back in their proper place: emotional support and sex dolls.
>> No. 168012
Wait, I'm not sure I'm following the conversation--we said the sales were actually really good, but you're thinking they would want to avoid repeating that? Why would they decide to stop having female protagonists like Lightning if the Sales were this good?

Are you just assuming that internet whining counts more than sales numbers to companies or something? Because if that were true, they wouldn't have made any Final Fantasies since 7.
>> No. 168013
No, it's every single element of it being terrible that makes X-2 a bad game.
>> No. 168015
File 135707791665.png - (1.03MB , 800x1000 , beatrix29.png )
Hey guys, I'm better than all of you.
>> No. 168017
You really are. If only we could get another one like you FF9.
>> No. 168019
I can't think of any individual element of FFX-2 that I disliked. I even preferred the campy nonsense atmosphere of it to FFX. It was far from a perfect game, but it was competently done and your inability to even give any actual itemized criticism of it makes me think you're just reacting out of bias.
>> No. 168023
What I find disturbing is how many masochistic faggots love Lightning despite how blatantly unlikable she is. Probably the most abusive FF protagonist ever. I mean she makes Squall who was an anti-social prick who insulted the people he was with for a good chunk of the game seem like a kitten.
>> No. 168024
Isn't that a good thing? Need I remind you this is the country that surveyed School Girls over the fucking direction of Konami's Metal Gear series. A franchise that is beloved and more popular in the US and Konami ignored that to give us a wuss female looking bishie male lead who even in the game's story is confused for a woman without even the need to cross dress like Cloud in FF7.

Ugh Japan WTF. I like the idea of Raiden FYI, but he physically did not need to look like how he did. Also Rose did not help Raiden's image.
>> No. 168025
It's probably just backlash against the hyperbolic negative reaction from people like you. It's like when you hear about how great a game is and then you play it and it's just sort of okay, so you go away thinking it was terrible because you were expecting so much more--you and people like you lead people to expect FFXIII and Lightning to actually be offensively awful when really they were just sort of blah, so people come away thinking she was more likable because of how low you set their expectations.

We'd probably see less of this sort of thing if we could get away from everyone who wants to talk about video games thinking that they need to pretend they're Yahtzee.
>> No. 168026
Right. I consider Lightning a bitch because she fed a boy poor morals to turn him into a potential psychopathic killer and then did a half assed jobbed at stopping the monster she created. Hell she didn't even take away the knife she gave him. She physically assaults people who don't deserve nor instigate anything with her (Sazh, Snow, and Fang). She also personally threatened she would murder her sister without an ounce of regret.

Tell me again why shouldn't I see Lightning as a cunt? Just because "magical bad writing" made Lightning suddenly "character develop" into less of a bitch doesn't actually mean that she's a likable character.

God of War doesn't pretend for a second that Kratos is a likable protagonist and treats it as such. With Lightning the story's all "Just ignore Lightning's negative traits as if they didn't happen, she's cool now. Fuck that shit.
>> No. 168028
>Right. I consider Lightning a bitch because she fed a boy poor morals to turn him into a potential psychopathic killer and then did a half assed jobbed at stopping the monster she created. Hell she didn't even take away the knife she gave him. She physically assaults people who don't deserve nor instigate anything with her (Sazh, Snow, and Fang). She also personally threatened she would murder her sister without an ounce of regret.

Really. You don't see where the hyperbole is in what you're saying? Then I'm sorry, I was wrong--you're not using hyperbole, you're just stupid.

I didn't call it good writing. I said that calling her a psychopath and this sort of thing is clearly and obviously you trying to be funny by being extreme, and failing to do so. Thus making people think that it's going to be worse than it is, which means the reaction they have when they actually play it is--"oh, she's not written as a psychopath by retarded people, she was just written sort of abrasively by mediocre writers. Why this isn't so bad at all!"

People need to stop treating mediocrity and awfulness as the same thing. It leaves us with no words to use when describing things that are actually awful. Plus, it makes you come off as one of those idiots who wants people to think he's cool because his opinions are so extreme. Final Fantasy XIII was far too unremarkable to deserve any sort of extreme opinion. Save your outrage for things that were at least interestingly bad.
>> No. 168029
Let's just agree to disagree. No need to turn this into a flame fest.
>> No. 168030
But it is awful, if not for the characters and Nomura's design style, than from the excessive dependency of stale menus and number scaling. How much time of that game was spent in inventory management alone?
I like that no one is talking how the global scales are in a downwards spiral. Final fantasy is swifly losing its crediblity and appeal to generate the money that past titles such as FF9 earned automatically.
>> No. 168031
the final fantasy series is falling behind it's competitors due to shitty writing and a refusal to improve the shitty combat system.
>> No. 168032
And mass milking with cheapquels ever since FFX and the FF7 Compilation games of questionable quality. Kingdom Hearts is another series that used to be charming but SE has made sure its popularity has nowhere to go but DOWN.
>> No. 168033

>God of War doesn't pretend for a second that Kratos is a likable protagonist and treats it as such.

Actually no. GoW did at one point try and make their character sympathetic. Maybe not in an immediate way, but still in a way where you can be like "Yeah, I think I can see what his issues are and where he's coming from..."
>> No. 168034
>I like that no one is talking how the global scales are in a downwards spiral.
Probably because that's not true. It was released on two platforms, both of which are listed on that chart, and sales are split between those platforms--4.92 + 1.93 = 6.85, meaning Final Fantasy XIII outsold both FF12 and FF9 by quite a bit, and was only outsold by FF7 (which is a known if overrated phenomenon), FF12 (which was possibly the best entry in the series), and FF8 (which I can't even begin to explain).

And it did all this in significantly less time than the others have. Admittedly, the vast majority of sales for a game will be in its first year, but giving it an extra decade means that long tail has a little while to build up.

FF13 might well be one of the worst Final Fantasies (though anyone who thinks it's the worst hasn't played FF8), but sales-wise it's done quite well. The overall trend for the main series since FF9 is upward, though it varies from game to game how MUCH upward. It's downward if you start from FFX, but that chart makes FFX look like an outlier.
>> No. 168035
so... why do people keep buying it? If everyone knows how bad it is. Why do people still care enough to keep paying?
>> No. 168037
I like Lightning based on what I saw from Dissidia, because they took the leather-clad, sword-wielding, long-haired badass male character they'd been doing with Cloud and Squall, and at least by flipping the gender, they made her marginally more interesting. I can't speak for FFXIII itself, though. I haven't played it yet, but I was looking forward to it only because I liked the idea of finally having another black character on the team.

Speaking of Kratos, the only positive points Kratos as a character gets from me is the same thing I was looking forward to with Sazh-- the daddy factor. Give me any male character worried about his daughter, and I'm hooked, as cliche as it sounds. But unlike Final Fantasy, you can play God of War simply to gorily destroy titans and completely ignore the plot-- I know people who ignore the FF plots too, but idk why.
>> No. 168039
Because to be honest, those of us who talk about these things on the internet amount to probably less than ten thousand.
>> No. 168044
File 135713303085.jpg - (215.58KB , 700x394 , 9812world_office.jpg )
I kind of like Lightning's new design. It shows off the contours of her breasts.
>> No. 168047
Because most gamers are masochistic MORONS. Even when you tell them "Buy the games used so the developer doesn't make cash from your purchase" they won't do that. They continue to support the industry they bitch about and then will bitch yet again when things don't go their way even though THEY perpetuate their own cycle of misery.
>> No. 168048
Lightning is way too old now to be attractive. Tifa is younger than her by now for god's sake.

People sometimes choose to ignore the plots because the stories are bland, uninteresting, or outright just bad. Simple as that.
>> No. 168049
File 135714438586.jpg - (242.39KB , 700x394 , 9791battle2.jpg )
And you can easily see her underwear now too.
>> No. 168050
File 135714444023.jpg - (238.25KB , 700x394 , 9792battle3.jpg )
>> No. 168052
Also note the ease with which her armpits can be seen.

SE has truly listened to the fans.
>> No. 168053
they stole all her zippers it looks like.
>> No. 168054
SE WISHES they could actually make a hardcore Action game like Devil May Cry 3 or the upcoming Metal Gear Rising. Its obvious that they want to imitate Platinum games. This envy has been very clear to me ever since they made that pathetic boring dreadful game known as Dirge of Cerberus.

However they lack the actual talent needed to make such an Action game and as such just flat out cannot compare. Their attempts are so bad that they make God of War and Castlevania Lords of Shadow look good.
>> No. 168057
I just can't see myself playing a game if I'm not interested in the story. If it's a hack and slash or a platformer, maybe, but RPG's to me are all about the story. It's not worth playing if you're not invested in saving that world.
>> No. 168060
Truth be told, I think ALL videogames regardless of genre need to have decent enough stories to get one motivated to accomplish the goals.

If the characters are annoying or whiny or unlikable or the villains suck, etc then there's very little motivation to get immersed in that world. I for one find it hard to get into Metal Gear Solid 2 because the plot and characters are so underwhelming. And it just felt sloppy.

Raiden was whiny, Rose was an annoying nagging girlfriend who no one told to shut up (Raiden forgiving her after all her manipulations and lies destroyed his credibility as a likable protagonist. She did all those horrible things to him only because "its her job" and yet she also tries to portray herself as if she was a victim of Raiden's preferences in women as if he was to blame for how her life ended up when she herself agreed to be a spy. How the fuck do you forgive a bitch like that? Fuck this crap annoyed me).

The villains were made to be blatantly inferior copies of more fan favorite villains and lacked charm. Never mind how little exposition they had including Solidus who you would think should have been important.

Another game whose gameplay was fun enough, but the story sucked was InFAMOUS. Zeke who was Cole's best friend.....is a traitorous jerk dumbass with serious envy over his friend being a mutant with powers. Keep in mind Cole was ostracized for his powers and yet the dumbass keeps on taking cheap shots at our protagonist.

Cole's girlfriend Trish is another case of whiny annoying unlikable bitch of a girlfriend who blames him for shit that wasn't even his fault. Why the fuck does Cole associate with such people? And worse is how Cole just simply keeps on taking their crap like a doormat instead of growing some balls and self respect and tell them both to go to hell. That whipped personality made Cole very unlikable to me.

In the sequel game Zeke became more of an honest friend, but Cole stayed the same and new characters like Nix and Kuo nagged and treated him like crap and Cole continued to take their shit like a loser.

The Jak series also has a badly written story and Jak himself is kind of a whipped loser who takes shit from many people he shouldn't be tolerating at all. Keira and Samos the Sage became insensitive assholes to Jak in Jak 2. Why the fuck should Jak care about them when they don't even care to ask about the two years of torture he endured in the baron's prison? And also Daxter became a douchebag in the spin off game Daxter for the PSP. It turns out that the reason Daxter took two years to find Jak in Jak 2 was because he spent nearly two years......drinking at a bar for fun. He was bar hopping for TWO fucking years (with what money I wonder) telling nonsensical stories about what a hero he was while Jak was being tortured in prison? WTF!? This guy's no friend, he's an asshole! And he's lucky that Jak is too much of a pussy to call him out on that shit because at the end of Daxter, it turns out the whole games experience is being shared with the whole cast of characters and Jak was there listening to the story and not getting mad at how he was left to rot.

Those are my examples. Basically if I can't get into the story concepts and characters, I honestly cannot get into a game. A game needs to be appealing in one way or another, playing a blatantly unenjoyable story with unlikable or annoying characters is not my idea of fun.

Kudos to Insomniac during the first Ratchet and Clank game for having a decent story in a platformer. Ratchet was back stabbed by Captain Quark, a galactic hero he looked up to when he was younger and naive. Did Ratchet just let it go? No. His innocence was crushed and he was nearly murdered by Quark and had to fight for his life. Naturally Ratchet was angry with Captain Quark and wanted to put the bastard in his place. Sure he was seeking revenge and delaying dealing with Chairman Drek, but Ratchet had a good argument which was Captain Quark worked for Chairman Drek, so taking down one of Drek's patsies was a good stepping stone to bringing Drek down eventually. That there is decent writing.

Sorry for the longish rant, I hope its clear enough and the point comes across well enough.
>> No. 168062
>Those are my examples. Basically if I can't get into the story concepts and characters, I honestly cannot get into a game
Have you ever considered reading instead of playing games? Much cheaper, and books are actually a medium well-suited toward telling stories, unlike games where a strong central narrative is actually detrimental to the medium's strong suit.
>> No. 168064
Even if books are cheaper, there are plenty of books with horrible stories with unlikable characters who get away with murder in daylight or feel written like a crappy garbage anime Shounen.

Anyways, competent writing is what I seek and that's something that should apply to books, movies, cartoons, live action programming, videogames, etc. There's just no excuse for blatantly badly written drivel.
>> No. 168067
Yeah, but....that's not what video games are about. It's icing on the cake for video games, but video games are not a narrative medium, and having a hard coded story being told takes away from the one thing which video games are about, which is interactivity. The "better written" a video game is, the more likely that it's going to be a bad game even if it's a fine visual novel.

Saying that video games are only good if they're well written is like saying that a car's only good if it's got flames painted on the side.

Plus, there are basically no video games that are well-written, so you're doubly screwed.
>> No. 168068
So what you're saying is that you liked Heavy Rain?
>> No. 168069
I haven't played Heavy Rain. But I like games that work well as games, regardless of their writing, and find ones that are trying to be 70-hour long movies (or anything that is written as an attempt to garner critical acclaim) exhausting because of their totally missing the point of the medium, i.e. providing a set of rules and goals to be met through creative abuse of those rules. With the best ones being those wherein the rules create lots of interesting situations or have deceptively complex ramifications despite the simplicity of the rules themselves.
>> No. 168071
Ok, I'll bite.
When you say all of what you said, I'm sure you have a game in mind. Why don't you share.
>> No. 168072
I don't have any specific ones in mind, actually. But there are plenty that do the game thing pretty well. I just hate seeing people play the "RPGs are about the story!" card as though that were some sort of sacred truth rather than just the fact that that particular person doesn't actually like RPGs much.
>> No. 168240
You can basically watch Heavy Rain on youtube. They game is mostly very simple actions, a kind of quick time event special hell. Interestingly, it is possible to get BAD END in the game, so there is an element of interactive story to it, but it really is like playing a goofy movie.

I kind of get your argument but not really. Stamos and Keira had more pressing matters on their mind, and seeing as your role is generally bagman/most destructive force on the good guys side, they kind of didn't have time to sit down and ask you how you were feeling.

That said, I do kind of agree about characters being better constructed to make you care about your role in games more. Bioshock turned me off completely with scooby-doo syndrome. Randian fantasy uses lack of true interactivity to declare you're in a Randian fantasy. Ooh good writing.
>> No. 168245
Interactivity is only one thing which video games are 'about'. That's a bit like saying that panning shots are all that's important to filmmaking.
>> No. 168250
>That's a bit like saying that panning shots are all that's important to filmmaking.
No, it's like saying moving pictures are what movies are about. It is the one element that differentiates the medium from all other media. Video games are interactivity. Games that fail to leverage that are bad games, regardless of how much you like their story.
>> No. 168257

So a movie lives and dies on the basis of its cinematography, with no mind to writing or performance? Garbage, sir.

All mediums are narrative mediums. We are storytelling creatures. When the human race obtains a new form of expression, the first thing we collectively ask ourselves is 'how can I use this to tell stories'.

Anyway, I wouldn't even say that interactivity is the defining feature of games, but rather its derivative. I'd say that the defining feature of games is the ability to involve the audience directly in the experience as an active rather than passive participant. Yes, this occurs even in linear experiences.
>> No. 168263
>So a movie lives and dies on the basis of its cinematography, with no mind to writing or performance? Garbage, sir.
Not even what he said.

Could you imagine a decent movie without a basic hold on cinematography?
>> No. 168271
There are some movies with "left the camera running" cinematography, but they're almost always intentionally shot to look cheap.
>> No. 168272
(The pictures still move in those.)
>> No. 168273
I'm aware of that. I don't think a whole movie could run on that schtick, at least not as long as they're doing a faux-low-budget film. An actual amateur one, maybe.
>> No. 168278
FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reb…youtube thumb
>> No. 168294
Also, the definitive feature of film is its ability to control the audience's viewpoint, not that the pictures move. If you set up a camera and film a camera to film a stage production, you don't wind up with a movie. You wind up with a play you can watch at home.
>> No. 168296
I fail to see how that's a definitive trait. In what way do comics, paintings, still photography, books and video games not do the same thing? About the only medium where the audience's viewpoint isn't controlled are sculptures or other 3D art forms. And even those are, sometimes, like in Forced Perspective work.
>> No. 168297

Video games do do it, much like how movies inherited most of theater's capabilities. But it's what sets it apart from the theater, which is its artistic predecessor. Books and still art and comics are totally different mediums, film doesn't need to distinguish itself from them because they don't overlap at all.
>> No. 168299
>film doesn't need to distinguish itself from them they don't overlap at all
Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to a crazy person. No point in carrying on the argument, in that case.
>> No. 168302
Looks nice. You know, for a cinematic.
Already in beta due to having a Legacy account so I'll get to see some of the changes to the world at the end of the month.
>> No. 168305

Thos is pretty much what I've been thinking for half this thread, so I'm glad we can finally agree on something.
>> No. 169741
File 136025940040.jpg - (20.70KB , 393x360 , 1359763361836.jpg )
Yo, playing 4 Heroes of light, anyone got some guides to good set ups?
>> No. 169746
I stopped with the main games after seeing 1 was online. I wasn't about to do that. I still have a special place for the first 10.Tactics was always amazing. I loved the second Dissidia. I always end up maining Golbez.

The series was always great to me. It's hard seeing it turn into this. Same with Mega Man.
>> No. 169747
What classes do you have? 4HoL has a surprising amount of versatility, and the characters' levelup stats don't depend on whichever class you have.
>> No. 169749
Same with Kingdom Hearts. I cannot believe how low that series has sunk as well. I never knew a simply Disney themed game could spiral out of control, but thank Nomura as the director for that.
>> No. 169759
You're letting your principles screw you. FF12 might've been the best in the series.
>> No. 169762
I thought about it but I don't have a ps2 anymore. The kid from 12 is one of my favorite fighters in Dissidia though.
I miss looking forward to a new game from Square. I remember my mom giving me 8 and 9 out of the blue one day. Oh well. At least I had my fun.
>> No. 169764
Lets just say WINK WINK I've got all crowns.

What set up covers all my bases? Right now I just dedicated roles to everyone of Dark Fencer, Black mage, White mage and Archer.
>> No. 169765
I disagree. 12 was good but BEST. No way.
>> No. 169767
I like 12 but dear god am I glad 9 was the last I god around to looking at (besides the MMOs I don't like MMOs and so don't care) because it blew the others out of the water.
>> No. 169865
File 136042957758.jpg - (117.51KB , 500x281 , Final-Fantasy-Versus-XIII_2009_01-29-09_01_jpg_500.jpg )
So, I've been out of Final Fantasy for years but I was trying to make sense of the new stuff.

I am flabbergasted by how shitty everything is, wow.

At least Bravely Default is coming out.
>> No. 169868
>At least Bravely Default is coming out.

>> No. 169872
File 136043341724.png - (28.96KB , 385x265 , 1354502457693.png )
>At least Bravely Default is coming out.
>> No. 169875
Oh, no Western release date yet. Well. Guess all the voice acting's really taking its toll time-wise.

Also Tiki for crowns you have lots of options if you have all the crowns, really. You can go Beasmaster and turn all your allies into animals for massive physical damage, use Merchants and super-upgrade your weapons and armor, Black Magic's actually useful if you know the elements. Having a Hero or Party Host is always a good thing, as well as a Fighter or Ranger. There's just SO MANY OPTIONS.
>> No. 169876
...whoa i think you just blew my mind, moe. thats it. thats whats been bothering me about ffx-2 all this time. id play it and think "this is sort of fun" all the while hating it with every fibre of my being. that's why. because ffx-2 is a really sequel to ffx that plays really well.
>> No. 169880
File 136044270057.png - (41.84KB , 367x482 , BDFF_Holly_White.png )
Yeah I'm digging my current set up.

Sorry to give you an erection, like PG said no Western date yet.
>> No. 169881
Where is goddamn Versus Square? Is this Final Fantasy Forever?
>> No. 169883

Where's the news of it being worked on?
>> No. 169886
They'll get back to bigger non Lightning titles after XIV:ARR is released.
>> No. 170917
File 136380074029.jpg - (60.55KB , 550x312 , 18934-550x-fft4.jpg )
After getting 10 bucks for the PSN from a survey or something, decided to get FFT: War of the Lions, and goddamn, this game.
>> No. 170941
File 136382733165.png - (428.01KB , 404x513 , 1363825654678.png )
You know that Final Fantasy V remake fans have been begging for for years now? ENJOY YOUR PIECE OF SHIT iPHONE PORT.
>> No. 170942
>> No. 170943
I was about to say that.
>> No. 170948
The iPhone ports are handled by entirely different teams from the DS remakes we've been clamoring for. I wouldn't take this as a sign that V3D isn't being worked on.
>> No. 170954
File 136383526642.png - (154.50KB , 597x350 , 1361253979946.png )

[incoherent ranting]
>> No. 170984
Hey Fuck you Biker. Iphone FF games are pretty fucking amazing. Play fucking Final Fantasy Dimensions before you say fucking anything.
>> No. 178620
File 137549228175.jpg - (86.16KB , 600x337 , lightning1.jpg )
So much for dignity, huh, Lightning?
>> No. 178622
File 137549528553.jpg - (543.02KB , 600x1479 , azito7_birthday.jpg )
Her personality is still the same, isn't it.
>> No. 178623
As in non-existent? Yeah.
>> No. 178624
It's more like a Cloud wannabe.
>> No. 178625
Like I said.
>> No. 178626
They're really turning her into their own Elmyra aren't they?
>> No. 178627
Either you meant Elvira, or you and I have very different memories of Tiny Toon Adventures.
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