Yay~ I got StH#255 AND SU#58 on the same day. (Actually, someone else got SU#58 (we have a community mail box) but was kind enough to leave it on my doorstep.)

>>219696
>You forgot Clamp-style.
>I kinda like Gaylord's art,
I have to agree, especially with the Clamp reference. Has Gaylord (oh man that name is going to be made fun of so much) done pencils before? I don't dislike him, though he's not nearly up to Yardley quality. My main concern is that he's trending towards the freaky art we got during Knuckles (see image.) But, I do like his Bunnie for reasons mentioned in >>219695. (Though her chest somehow deflated when she took off the Egg Empire uniform.)

Also, during the action scenes Bunnie reminded me of characters from 6teen. He does a really good Eggman, though.

>but he needs to fix his limbs. They're all over the place.
I'm not seeing it.

>>219708
Hats are human-only now. (But >>219709 is right, the hat wasn't in the original scenes that were shown.)

>>219738
>Has Gaylord done Pencils before?
Not for Archie, as far as I can tell, but he's done pencils for other stuff and it's way better. He's getting used to drawing Sonic, more or less.
Pic related.

>He's not up to Yardley's quality
Neither was Yardley when he started. His early art is quite mediocre, he just got better over time. I think he can get better if he tries hard enough to "get it". I mean, look at Evan's first pencils for the comic versus her current work. The difference a mere year or so can make is outstanding.

>Trending toward the Knux art
His problem is the exact opposite: his bodies are short (which is Sonic standard, so that's fine) but the limbs are much longer than they should be. Sonic's got longer limbs than he did in 06 in some panels. They're only similar in that things like the proportions are a bit weird and include tertiary sexual characteristics more prominently than most of the artists. You'd be better comparing his style to a more cartoony and whimsy Butler or Axer.

>I like his girls because [tertiary sexual characteristics]
That is a /terrible/ reason to like an art style. Hope that's not offensive to say, but there's way more to a style than that.

>I don't see how his limbs are all over the place
They're the main reason his art looks so off. The torsos are fine, the heads are okay, but the arms and legs are constantly changing size and shape in every panel. There are also a good number of panels where they're just wrong. Bunnie's arm is bending BACKWARDS when she's tossing the helmet. Sonic's arms and legs are horrifying, etc. Proportions and limbs are a big deal and he has no idea what he's doing with that, which is why people compare him to Ron Lim and Chris Allen. They had that problem too, but their overall style was VERY different.

>making fun of his name
That's mean, anon.

He should really, REALLY look into doing pages for Mega Man, especially if X gets an ongoing. His style is more suited for it.

>>219685
>Not that it feels nice to bring this back again and again, but have a post nicely compiling everything about the Penders case in a timeline.
>http://theamazingsallyhogan.tumblr.com/post/68112487973/sonic-the-hedgehog-ken-penders-bioware-electronic

Interesting to read a very thorough chronological summation of... this. I've gotta admit it's given me better clarity and cleared up some misconceptions I had.

>>219751
>On May 2, 2013, lawyers from both parties met with the Judge (who began the meeting by stating “So this looks like a fine mess”).

That just about says it all, doesn't it.

>>219754
P much, yeah.

>Yardley! has five kids, according to Wiki
Speaking as the oldest of five kids, ouch.

>>219744
>Neither was Yardley when he started.
You're probably right in this. Yardley has been with us for quite some time now, and all I can remember is his recent stuff. I'd have to dig up his old stuff for a comparison; however, when he joined up it was light years better than most of what the comic in the recent history before him, so that likely plays into my feelings about his art. I'm more than happy to give Gaylord a chance.

>That is a /terrible/ reason to like an art style.
It's a great reason, assuming you're seeking those qualities while looking at art. But that's neither here nor there, as I said that I liked his Bunnie*; not his girls in general (we've only had Bunnie and part of Nicole and Sally, so it would be too soon to really judge on that premise anyway) nor that I even liked his art; I said I don't dislike it, meaning that I'm okay with it but would not prefer it.

> his bodies are short (which is Sonic standard, so that's fine)
But that was what felt off about it to me, his bodies seem tall; taller than we've really seen in recent issues, at least. Perhaps the longer arms you talk about are what give me that feeling, at least in part.

>Bunnie's arm is bending BACKWARDS when she's tossing the helmet.
Okay, looking at that panel again I see what you mean. That is unnatural (at least, when I tried to do it.) The limbs are a bit long in some instances (like Sonic striking his pose, waiting for the door to open) but I didn't otherwise notice anything horrible (but my sleep schedule is messed up and I could just be missing it.)

>That's mean
I wasn't making fun of it, I was commenting on the inevitability of someone cracking jokes on the expense of his last name (likely not here, but this is the internet so it's certainly going to happen somewhere.)

>anon.
Now I'm not even sure you read my post.

*Well, one version of it; her model changes throughout the issue, primarily in head shape.

>>219756
maybe people don't look at trip-codes because they don't like being or paying attention to attention whores who have no reason to have no reason not being part of the anonymous crowd?

>>219756
Yardley's early art was very...Mawhinney? Is that a word? Let's use that as a word.

>didn't notice anything horrible
Sonic's leg is twice the length of the rest of him in one panel, and every time someone's arm is bent in the issue it's either way too short or long.

People are talking mostly about the bodies, and they have lots of troubles, but I think it's faces where he's weakest. Characters don't look in the right direction, they don't express any emotion when they need to, and half the time when they do they don't really wear the RIGHT expression for what they're saying. But it doesn't ruin the issue at all, which is impressive. It's still a good little story, even with all that against it.

>>219778

You're new here, aren't you?

>>219792
>Expecting Anonymity to be the norm is a sign of newfaggotry, amirite?

Fuck, I must be so old it's gone cyclical.

>>219799

He means specifically on plus4chan, where using names is much more common and always has been. Anybody who complains about names/tripcodes here just ends up sounding like an idiot.

>>219799

No, plus4chan has always been a hive of tripfaggery. You're not on 4chan now, sonny.

Now that we're done with the circlejerk, this whole situation brings up a good question: assuming the art doesn't have actual problems, how far offmodel is acceptable? At what point are the characters "too cute"? "Too serious"? "Too expressive"? "Too static"? "Too sexy"? "Too ugly"?

At what point do curves become creepy and exploitative, does conformity become stale and lazy, does exaggeration mean inconsistency and consistency mean monotony, and what does that mean for the book?
Is there a place of reference artists should start from? Is it singular, or is it many sources? Why start there if there's a starting point? How far should artists be allowed to deviate and why?

It's probably better (and more entertaining and polite) to discuss this than trying to quantify individual artists.

>>219835
It's not hard to say whether any individual picture is too off-model or works, but it's harder to put some sort of numbers on the qualities. The starting point is obviously the Sega art, because that's the real visuals of the Sonic franchise. Things should be fun, cartoony, expressive, and a lot of other abstract words that can easily be misinterpreted and frustratingly vague. I suppose when it comes to things like "sexy" or "cute" it just can't override the other parts of the art and the writing. It should never take prominence over the action or atmosphere.

If the art's too static or ugly, well, that's not really ailing to draw Sonic as much as it's plain old failing to draw comics. There's nothing specific to this series there.

>>219835
I think we all need to collectively realize that as an audience we all have different varying standards for all of those categories, and unless you prefer the artists restrain themselves to the most bland and boring output possible to avoid offending anybody, that we have to take the good with the bad and risk art you personally don't like to see art you personally find exceptional.

I have no subscription and no idea what you guys are going on about.

Have this.

>>219879
I have a subscription and I haven't even gotten it yet!

Yes I mad

All I know is that I fall in the "yeah, Blaze's cup size matters" camp.
Cue tomatoes.
But seriously, while I wish Japan had given her a more America-friendly foible, it is the little eccentricity put in there to prevent her from being just a bland Hero archetype.
Ideally a character's motivation should be a major part of how they're written, but, for various reasons, a lot of the characters in the Sonic franchise (books AND games) don't have clear formative events in their pasts. At least none that can be addressed.
So that makes it all the more important that they have little touches to humanize them, like Antoine being more liable to get scared, Blaze having a physical trait she's touchy about, etc.

>>219916
See, I take that as being a problem with America, not with Blaze's personality. "Breasts are so horrible, speak not of them!" But then I don't think it's a large part of her personality (IIRC it's only mentioned in a character description in a guide or something, so not even SEGA makes it prominent), so that's neither here nor there.

>>219916
>The fact that she's conscious about her body image is what makes her more than a bland hero archetype
Oh goodness let's not go too far down this road.

You don't have to specifically touch on THAT to discern and use her major character traits. Blaze is a strong girl who has crippling self-confidence issues and an streak of hotheadedness she tries to control. She's always pushing responsibilities on to herself when she doesn't need to and is a bit too concerned with trying to "fix" her problems, both external and internal. She's actually a bit like Sally, except she's more of a powerhouse who cares about how things "feel" (this FEELS like the right thing to do, I don't want to FEEL like I burden others, I don't want to FEEL alone but I don't FEEL it's right to put my wants first) while Sally's more of a logical team player who isn't as physically skilled. Or in other words, they have a similar "strong but self-doubting" angle but they work very differently.

There's no real need to make a point about her physical shape to tell the audience Blaze has self confidence problems and image issues. It's self-evident in her behavior.

All that said, I'd like it if the Sega characters were generally on model. I get kinda peeved when Sonic's chest is too big too. :P
Pic related, Butler's...chesty...bumpy...THINGY is the most irritating thing.

>>219924
>who has crippling self-confidence issues

I'm afraid I don't see where you're getting that from. She's not as cocky as Sonic, but her self-confidence dial seems firmly set at "normal hero". She's got the same amount of confidence that Sally, Bunnie, or Tails normally exhibit. Sonic worries less, Antoine worries more, Blaze is firmly in the "sensible appraisal of possible failure" camp that most of the cast fall into. Put her in the right situation and she'll start to worry, but that's nearly universal. I'm afraid I don't think the material supports your assessment.

>>219879
> I have no subscription and no idea what you guys are going on about.

Having the latest issue doesn't help as much as you'd think. I've spent the thread wondering what in blazes people are yammering on about.

>>219932
>I'm afraid I don't see where you're getting that from.
Did you play Sonic Rush? Her whole thing when she first shows up is about being able to do everything herself and thinking needing to rely on others is shameful. She's very much a character who's constantly lacking confidence in herself. She puts on the whole facade of the cool collected awesome chick, but when she's in a pinch she starts getting hotheaded and impulsive.

And it's not like she takes everything on herself because she actually thinks she's awesome, that she's better than everyone else. She does it so she can prevent them from taking on her BURDEN. She views everything related to her guardian duties as HER responsibility, and when it goes wrong it's entirely HER failure.

When you combine her self-depreciating and burden-taking nature, her stated and shown (through concept art) need to conceal herself due to what's supposedly shame of her powers, the way she shoves people away from her and her self-critical attitude, and her shy and awkward nature when she's forced to open up to other people? She's not exactly confident in herself. She supposedly is embarrassed about her appearance, is ashamed of her powers, is concerned with being perfect at her guardian job (it's my responsibility, stop helping!), and she hates being called princess. I mean, she's a trooper, she keeps doing her job despite it all, but Blaze has got some serious issues with accepting herself in nearly every way possible. She's constantly rejecting herself; mentally, emotionally, and physically.

So yeah, self-confidence issues.

>>219951
....sorry but I think you're reading way too far into things. Especially since you start with

>is about being able to do everything herself and thinking needing to rely on others is shameful.

which sounds like someone who is pretty confident in their own ability to get things down and not something with a crippling LACK of confidence.

>>219952
>Putting everything on yourself because it's "your burden" rather than believing in your skill is symptomatic of self-confidence

>Blaze's character is heavily rooted in her uncertainty. She's constantly cautious and contemplative.
>She's often at odds with her own impulsive nature
>She's usually rejecting her own title while accepting the responsibility anyway.
>Bio info says she doesn't even accept her own appearance.

...Anon, I'm not sure you even know what self-confidence is.
It's not the same as responsibility. Blaze is responsible. Dutiful, even. But she doesn't have a lot of self-confidence. Blaze is the level headed character, the person who's asking questions and considering her options. She's not sure of herself. It's kind of a big freaking part of her arc in Rush; she only gains the ability to use her stupid emeralds once she believes in herself and the power of friendship. The final battle seriously starts off with Sonic needing to give her a pep talk. And on top of that, she's a character that's rejecting her actual feelings (pic darn well related) and she explicitly asks people to not treat her differently because of her heritage. It's kind of hard to argue that self-rejection ISN'T a big part of her character.

I can see someone trying to argue that she's confident in a broader sense of the word, maybe, but to argue she has self-confidence? When her entire arc in her first game was about GAINING more self-confidence, opening up, and trusting other people? When she's so thoroughly doubting or at odds with herself and needs other people to find direction in her life? When she's so darn awkward when she's being "herself"? That's pretty ridiculous. May as well argue Knuckles isn't arrogant or Silver isn't naive.

I mean, you can go ahead and dismiss all this with "you're looking too deep" if you'd like, but some of this seems pretty surface level. It's like saying Knuckles is arrogant or Silver is naive.

Let's change the subject here for a bit.

I want to see a horror-themed arc. Not something grimdark or violent, but stuff having to do with ghosts or vampires. Dub should do the art as well. I remember Ian expressing interest on Bumbleking but I guess Archie doesn't want to risk scaring kids. Sylvania Castle Zone would be the perfect setting for some cheap Castlevania references here and there.

>>219956
>When her entire arc in her first game was about GAINING more self-confidence, opening up, and trusting other people?

I'm pretty sure it was just about her having no friends and learning The Power Of Friendship. Not about her having a greater degree of self-doubt than any reasonable hero has.

>>219962
It was her being lonely and all the doubt and self-esteem issues that come with it. She was affected by Cream's friendliness and Sonic's optimism, because she was mostly afraid of people and had a lot of hangups about how she was a burden and a freak.

>>219959
I would love a horror-themed arc, or a Dub-drawn arc. I don't really see the two being combined though.

>>219963
Pretty much, but short of SEGA/Ian being evil and leaving her all alone again, she's moved past that, in the games and in the book. Her basic problem was her lack of a support network making her somewhat neurotic.

>>219959
>Implying there's anything Sonic-related that could be used as the basis of a horror arc.
.
.
.
.
.
.




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>>219966
I'd say she's about as "cured" of her problems as Shadow and Knuckles and Silver are (better, but still has the same problems), but this whole thing is a back and forth of "nuh uh" and "uh huh" that probably shouldn't continue.

>>219856
it's a children's comic.

Also stop thinking so black and white. Restraint doesn't stifle creativity.

Related, since he reads these boards: Dear Ian, is there any way you can influence the artists to not sexualize the female characters in non sexual situations like the panel with Bunnie regaining her memories?

I have to tell you it's utterly embarrassing and creepy. I'm sure a lot of disingenuous male readers will tell you it's not, but trust me, it is. Especially in a children's comic aimed at all genders.

>>219970
>stop thinking in black and white

>first line: It's a children's comic!

Make up your mind man.

>>219970
>Dear Ian, is there any way you can influence the artists to not sexualize the female characters in non sexual situations like the panel with Bunnie regaining her memories?

No, because that's not how that works.
And you're using that word wrong. It does not mean what you think it means.
Goodness gracious, boobies and hips and thighs are not sexualization you butts. That word is used in the context of sexual objectification. That is not the same as making a character too sexy. Hips being too wide does not undermine a character's integrity, it's just weird and distracting. You are using the word when what you're trying to say is "I am not comfortable with these characters' sexual characteristics being so prominent in this context." Which is TOTALLY OKAY and PROBABLY SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE AGREE WITH (like me!). Stop misusing sexualization, it just makes everything worse for everyone, and people start dismissing your point because you're saying it wrong, and it trivializes actual sexualization, and fdlfdjlkdffdlkfvopcjraglwarg stahp please. Stop tellin people that bunnie's thighs being too big is the same thing as bunnie being objectified/used simply for sex appeal, because those are super different and we can't actually discuss this junk because it will always just devolve into "that isn't sexualizing/sexism!" when this is a suuuuuper important issue! ;+;

>>219970
>ITT People who think Ian has any sort of control over who draws any of the art when he's not the editor of the damn book

>>219972
[spoiler] I'm not sure I get your argument.
Yea, sexuliztion isn't intrinsically tied to how you look, you can sexulize any kind of character. But it's well understood that certain body types have a greater correlation with higher sexual appeal. So when people emphasize these aspects in a character it can be commonly understood as sexulization, since the artist is pandering to (a segment) of the audiences sexual appeal. I mean, you could be saying the effect is incidental, an unintended byproduct the artist just happened to create, but I don't consider sexulization a thing that has to be done deliberately to be considered sexulization.

Note my position is I don't care how she's drawn so long as it looks good. And what we got was reasonable.

>>219975
>commonly understood as sexulization
And for a lot of people it's commonly understood feminism = women want to be treated better, race and ethnicity are interchangeable words, and a video game system is "a nintendo".
Doesn't actually mean the common understanding encapsulates the full gravity of what they're talking about, or that they're right.

Creating something appealing or making something become appealing is not the same thing as sexualizing the thing. Annnnd I think his art's a bit uncomfortable. But that's an opinion.

>>219966
>Implying there's anything Sonic-related that could be used as the basis of a horror arc.
Doesn't mean Ian can't make one up.

>>219964
For some reason I can see Dub's art giving it a creepy otherworldly feel.

Can someone with a subscription scan/photo the offending image of "sexualized" Bunnie? Because I want to see this apparently semi-pornagraphic image before everyone moves on to the next topic.

Can someone with a subscription scan/photo the offending image of "sexualized" Bunnie? Because I want to see this apparently semi-pornagraphic image before everyone moves on to the next topic.

>>219982
...

>>219916
Must say it feels odd to see someone say this and not be me. Even if my reasons to consider her body image important are more "so that we can stop drawing everyone with the same body".

>>219984
Here's a pic of her.
It's edited to try and make her legs not be seven feet long. The art constantly shifts throughout he issue, though, so some panels are more pronouncedly "feminine" than others.

It's no worse than Butler, Axer, or Spaz, it's just that the art is constantly shifting through the issue and the proportions are wonky.

>>219986

That's all? People are getting worked up over that?

>>219987
Her flashback panel gives her Axer-esque hips (and the artist clearly drew the body first and drew squgglies later as "robotics, but whatever), and a lot of other shots are very reminiscent of Ron Butler's Bunnie in the Adventure days. There's also a lot of characters who look WAYYY too human (only in proportion/composition, they have the right style), limbs tend to be way longer or shorter than they should be, and Sonic is just really weird looking. And again, that image was edited, her legs were way more stupid-long in the normal issue.

It's kinda been exaggerated a bit, yeah.
Pic related, other shots of Bunnie from the issue.

There are people honestly saying this is the worst art since Ian got on the book. It's like these people have the attention spans of gerbils.

>>219988
>Ron Butler
Jesus Christ I'm retarded.
"Steven Butler".

>>219986
>>219988
The last one's a terrible pose. Overall I don't agree with those saying "sexualization" (breasts are not shameful), but that's a pretty bad pose, sure.

>>219988

>No flashbacks of Beauregard.

>>219991
>His fate is uncertain because his entire circumstance is wrapped up around the Sandblasters, who happen to be Bollers characters.
>Beau isn't as important as the other events (minus the mandatory "early issue shout out")
>Suspense

Take your pic, really.

>>219990
Sexualization shouldn't be the word anyway, more humanoidism. Bunnie's not the only one where it happens, she just gets the brunt of it since she's the most prominent. There are male DEL members who are just as weirdly human in shape, but they're mostly background. Sonic and Tails and Antoine have problems, but humanization isn't one of them. So the humanoiding looks like sexualizing.

The art's bad, but it's definitely not the worst the modern run has ever seen and it doesn't ruin the issue. Seems like the more this talk goes on, the closer we're getting to huge hyperbole.

>>219995
More like it started in hyperbole and has been working its way down.

The art doesn't seem bad so much as rushed. There are a good number of panels that look pretty good, and a number of pages are mostly fine, it's just a big issue of size, scale, and proportions being out of whack from page to page. When the art's good, it's good. When it's bad, it's really bad.

>>219982
I'm guessing you didn't click on his pic.

That said, it'd be pretty cool to see the Boos show up in the comic. Dunno who read the Sonic X tie-in, but it did a great job of showing how big a threat they could be.

Erm.

Keeping in mind that it was mostly Cream and Chris that defeated them. Mainly Cream.

>>220002

>>219993
He doesn't have deal with Sandblasters, he was introduced by Mike Gallagher in Mecha Madness. They probably can't use him

>>220026
No he wasn't. His name was inspired by a one-off joke in a Gallagher comic. The worst he could do is politely ask them to change the name. By your logic Modern! Nicole, Hood, and the Crazy Kritters shouldn't exist.

>>219970
I know it's been pointed out already but holy shit are you seriously so stupid to think that Ian, a freelancer, has any control over what artists, who are OTHER FREELANCERS, are assigned issues and covers? Are you one of those fools who honestly thinks he's "the boss" of Archie comics?

>>220032
He could probably take it up with Victor Gorelick.

>>220032
It's a stunningly common issue. Right now I've got somebody tearing me a new one on Twitter over all manner of things beyond my control. I'll usually get one or two of these types either on BumbleKing, via email, or what-not per month.

After eight years, it gets... draining.

>>220033
"Hi, I'm just a freelancer who writes on one of the licensed titles that you probably don't care about since it's not actual Archie material, and you probably barely know who I am, and I just saw this finished issue that came out and I don't like the art much, can you make sure that this artist doesn't draw boobs and hips a certain way?"

Are you high?

>>220033
He really can't.
He can't do anything because he doesn't know how the art looks until long after it has been drawn. The best you can ask of Ian is to send emails politely requesting the artist tries to blahblah or soandso from now on after the fact.

Except that's rude, unprofessional, and Ian has no more sway over that than we do.

Or in other words, stop looking for scapegoats to bitch at and tell the artists how you feel. Tell the editors how uncomfortable it makes you and how it reduces your willingness to buy the comic. Ian is not your nanny. He has no obligation to file your complaints for you. The comics market is small enough that fan opinion DOES matter, so if you have a problem you need to take it upon yourself to solve it.

>>220033
I may be mistaken, but I dont think most of the guys working at Archie have even MET Mr. Gorelick.

Man, Dub's gonna get misquoted so hard.
I appreciate his honesty on the forums, though.

While there's no reason for immediate alarm, events of the last few years have put a perpetual Sword of Damocles hanging over the Sonic books, which will remain until Archie is assured that SEGA as forgiven and forgotten everything that has happened. In the meantime, nobody working on the Sonic books would be advised to get uppity.

It bears repeating: any legal crap that SEGA ends up going through over the Archie book mess? Archie pays the bills.

While Worlds Collide likely did some bridge-mending, the Boys In Mamaroneck would probably react badly to a Sonic writer doing anything other than writing.

And, to be blunt, now that I've seen the art in question I can understand why some people would find it a bit "off," but this escalated well beyond any reaction that was called for.

>>220026
While copyright law can be complex in general, the law on THIS matter is very clear. You cannot copyright a name. You can trademark it, but suing over trademark infringement requires the creation of a clear product that you can claim someone else is infringing upon. If the parties' creations are dissimilar enough that no confusion is likely to occur, or if one party simply came up with a name and no product, then no trademark infringement has occurred.

Beauregard is in the clear. Matilda should be too, "character X has a sister" is a story element, not an actual character, and as the copyright office explained to Penders way back, you cannot copyright story elements. Specific characters yes, concepts as simple as "_____ has a sibling" no.

>>220045
Just so long as nameless Tassel-man is in the clear.

People love a sharp dresser.

>>220042
Share with the class.

>>220045
>and as the copyright office explained to Penders way back, you cannot copyright story elements.

Except he still considers Shade as infringing on Julie-Su, despite not using any exact same terms or names or visuals.

>>220049
You're oversimplifying. The claim is not simply that Shade is too similar to one of his existing characters. That's a side effect of the overall story being too similar. Story elements and plot lines cannot be copyrighted, but an entire story - the words as written - can be (and was). Knuckles meets long lost evil echidnas, a Legion of Dark Brothers, who use high technology, and were locked in some sort of Twilight Cagey Zone, and one of them turns on her people to join the good guys.

That's enough that he could make a case. "Bunnie has an uncle, named something that doesn't matter since you can't copyright a name" is not enough.

One less reason for people to freak out over #258: Turns out the reason E-107 isn't going to be in the issue is that it's E-106 instead now. It's all just a name change.


>>220049
Didn't Penders later clarify that Shade is just a larger part of a big picture for him and his real concern is the game in general, not the character?

>>220052
I'm saddened since the name change means that M:25YL is now considered so toxic that even ideas of Ian's that happened to show up in it are considered "no touchy".

Dammit, I thought Tikaos was a nifty idea.

>>220048
He said the SatAM cast isn't relevant, he made implications that will be implicated as fuck over the next few months more likely than not, said they had to fight really hard for the SatAM cast to stay around, and simultaneously said the SatAM characters are a major part of the comics that should be respected while nearly everything else is just fluff.

He's right in every way, but he's going to get misquoted so hard. The only question is HOW he's going to get misquoted over the next howeverlong and by who. My money's on Mav.

>>220053
The "name change" never happened. It's an issue of the solicit being wrong. Jon just clarified they wouldn't be referencing MXYL ever again. He even pointed out there's nothing holding them back from making a Theta in the future, it's just that they will not be touching anything even kind of close for several years due to connections to EXPLICITLY Penders-heavy material.

Someone in the shuffle probably thought "eta" was just a typo. There's no reason to skip over Eta in the first place, he's the very next model after Zeta.

>>220042
>"Man, Dub's gonna get misquoted so hard."
Didn't take long. Over at Ken's forum, BobR's misquoting Dub as a way to throw insults over at Ian for using Ken's characters.

>>220061
Haha, wow, I thought it would take a bit longer.
And that it would be from fans first.

He's sure not waiting to throw rocks in a glass house, is he?

>>220062
Ken's forum hasn't been getting many hits over the last week or so and there haven't been many posts, so they're going for the most basic click bait tactic: trash talk. It's always silly when they start getting a bit hypocritical about criticism, but that's just how it goes.

Actually on-topic, I wanna see how Omega's gonna deal with Eta, assuming Eta becomes a recurring antagonist.

>>220061
People visit Ken's forum? Also, its BobR. It's expected of him to be misdirecting twat. For two people who don't like Archie and go out of their way to make the current creatives lives a living hell they sure do like hinging on every word they say and everything they do for the sake of creating mess.

>>220061
I am honestly surprised Mav didn't post it there. If we all know how badly it's gonna be misquoted and thrown around, it may be best to not give it so much attention so we don't keep inspiring this shit though.

And just because I can say it here, fuck BobR. BobR is a terrible person and a leech who clearly exists simply to be a sycophant asshole. If I didn't know Ken Penders' abilities to write believable characters, I'd think he was a sock puppet.

How well did the Sonic and Mega Man crossover sell? I keep hearing it did really well but I haven't seen any numbers.

>>220068
Somewhere around 80K+ per issue.
Or in other words, EXTREMELY WELL.

>>220067
At the risk of being off topic, I seriously dont think the guy can help it. I think he might be a bit "off". Begrudging him for his behavior is like getting mad at a dog for licking its junk.

>>220069

>>220054
>He said the SatAM cast isn't relevant
>and simultaneously said the SatAM characters are a major part of the comics that should be respected while nearly everything else is just fluff
So he contradicted himself? Yeah, that'll work well.

>>220069
>Or in other words, EXTREMELY WELL.
For the title(s), or comics in general?

I wish we had a VGChartz, but for comic books. You could search by series and see monthly sales, broken down into LCS/Subscription/Other. 80,000 sounds like a small number to me, but in the scheme of comics it could be a very good number.

>>220072
It more than doubled Mega Man's monthly sales.
Forever Evil and Infinity have been selling around 130ish K.
80K is incredible.

>>220072
The SataM cast is relevant to the comic.
The SataM cast is irrelevant to Sonic.
It's not a contradiction unless you leave out some important words. What did we say about this being misquoted

Also, 80k is very good for comics in general. It's almost twice as much as the Sonic titles usually sell, and three times for Mega Man. Diamond's numbers work pretty well for Marvel and DC, since that's where almost all their numbers come from, but with Archie's high subscription and newsstand sales it's better to use their published tax information.

The New 52 Justice League's first arc sold around 200K per issue.
Sonic sells 45K per issue on a GOOD year. Mega Man sold around 20 to 30 pre-crossover. The crossover's sales made Genesis look like SHIT.

LORE - Sonic Lore in a Minute!

I really don't like people making a big deal out of this, but if you're going to be misquoting him, taking him out of context anyway, here, take it.

>The people at Capcom that work with Archie
>The switch represents approval of the X story
>The blinking lights indicate sales

>The people at Sega that work with Archie
>Their pain unknowable, their torment unending

>>220082
It's amazing how when you see what was actually said instead of hearing it from a bunch of drama-addicted fanboys, it comes off as an entirely reasonable statement.

>>220090
Yes. I had been hoping for a screenshot like >>220082 (thank you) and not >>220054, which, as pointed out by >>220074, already misconstrued the quote.

>5 Archie employees are suing Nancy Silberkleit, Archie's co-CEO for saying "Penis". Like... a lot. "Using her gender as a weapon."
Huh. That's... weird.

>And her lawyer is arguing that it's absurd for a bunch of white men to try and sue her using discrimination laws intended for persecuted minorities.
Now hold the phone buddy, that's not fair, it's a contextual thing, it's absolutely possible for a woman to discriminate against white men. But I need context. What do the other high-ranking women at Archie make of this?

>There are no other high-ranking women at Archie.
Huh. Oh yeah, that's right, and Nancy's only got her job because she's the heir of a founder. She literally owns a big chunk of the company. It's hers. Well, what about mid-ranking employees?

>No, not really. There are creators, artists and writers...
Ah. Well okay then. I think I might have an inkling how this snowballed...

>>220054
>My money's on Mav

I actually haven't seen what you're talking about.

>>220067
I found myself getting mad at 255, so I decided to stop commenting on bumbleking for awhile. I'm only posting here because people keep bringing me up.

>>220103

Wait. What? I dunno, I have a hard time believing--

>According to TMZ, Archie Comics has filed papers against co-CEO Nancy Silberkleit for allegedly sexually harassing employees, including a 2009 incident where they say she pointed at a series of male employees and yelled “PENIS, PENIS, PENIS, PENIS.”

Pfft ha ha ha ha ha ha!

On one hand, I know that it's wildly inappropriate, not to mention bizarre, to do such a thing, but a part of me still finds the idea hilarious.

I'm tempted to ask Ian if he ever saw this happen (Apparently there are two incidents, the second of which added "My balls hurt!") but I sort of doubt he ever has to visit corporate all that often, and even if he did, he's probably legally bound not to discuss it in public.

>>220103
>>220111
I don't know how much it's still the case, but Boardroom Archie was definitely notorious for being an "Old Boys Club" not that long ago. Moreso than DC or Marvel have been for a long time. She clearly made some bad rookie business decisions, giving too many licenses to one person and the like, and I don't agree with how she's handled it, but I'd bet cash that the outlandish behavior is a response to inheriting her way into the position then running facefirst into a condescending attitude. REALLY badly handled though. Her lawyer's an idiot.

>>220103
>>220111
>not posting a link to any article about it
>2013
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/archie-boss-calls-male-employees-penis-article-1.1534462

Of course, her and the other co-CEO were in court for like a year and a half, ending only recently, as well. Sounds like the whole company is rocky. With all of this happening, it might be better for her to just take her golden parachute and jump ship; perhaps things won't be so messed up if they do away with this whole "co-CEO" business...

It's weird to think that a sidegame character will live on in the Olympics because extreme gear = snowboard.

>>220122
I dont mind, I like the Babylon Rogues.
To bad there games are not great...

I don't get it.

What the hell is a ""Mina"?

>>220130
Something to be forgotten.

>>220130
A Mongoose.

>>220130
Ha.

>>220130
Is this the birth of an epic new meme?

>>220192
People feigning ignorance of the excised material isn't new.

Has the change to Bunnie's origin been clarified anywhere?
I mean, was she A. Partially roboticized by Eggman then saved by Chuck, B. Badly injured by Eggman, then partially roboticized by Chuck, or C. Badly injured by Eggman then given cybernetics (not roboticiztion) by Chuck?

Seems like an unnecessary change complicating things for no reason...

>>220211
From what we can tell, Archie is working under the assumption that they only have the rights to SEGA, SatAM, and Ian's work.
Bunni'es origin was not in the cartoon, it was in the comic, written by Gallagher.
I strongly suspect the change is because Archie wants to make sure this new timeline definitely contains no stories that they might not have the rights to.
Just a guess on my part, but it seems logical.

>>220211
It hasn't clarified specifically, but it doesn't really seem too complicated. She was roboticized with the original intent of the machine (like Jules) instead of being stuck halfway through. That's all.

>>220211
If you consider that confusing and complicated, maybe reading comic books isn't for you. Seriously, I could imagine you complaining back in the day that the early Knuckles series didn't immeditately explain where the Legion came from or who the Knuckles clone in the Jedi robe was.

>>220214
>She was roboticized with the original intent of the machine (like Jules) instead of being stuck halfway through.

Eh? I read it as saying that Chuck saved her from a roboticizer. Similar to her original origin, but Chuck pulling her from the machine instead of the Freedom Fighters.

>>220211
Or you're reading too deep.

The new backstory is "She got fucked up in a fight, and Chuck saved her life with robotics". If he created the roboticizer, it was that, and Bunnie is co-opting Jules' history. If he didn't, it's just that he made her have cyborg limbs because the plot demands it and as a nod to Jules.

There is nothing complicated about this unless you try to make it complicated.

>>220220
"Wait. I remember. Chuck saved her life when Eggman first attacked." -Sonic, 2013

It's intentionally ambiguous, but Chuck is so heavily associated with the roboticizer and there's no reason to retcon Sonic out of the backstory that we can probably glean the meaning.

>>220218
>If you consider that confusing and complicated

I said it was "unclear" (I didn't say "confusing") in the sense that the way it was stated in the book there's more than one way to interpret it, so I hope it's clarified.

I said it was "complicated" because she had a perfectly clear origin everyone knew, and I didn't see any good reason to toss it (maybe de-cartoonify it slightly, sure).

But I didn't take >>220213 into consideration. That's a good reason.

Now that I've seen the new issue I can see where people were coming from. Looking at Jerry Gaylord's deviantart gallery he's clearly very talented, but I'm not sure if he's a good fit for the book. First issue was definitely a rough start.

>>220130
One of these.

>>220232
While inconsistent, each panel on its own wasn't bad (outside of things like Backwards-Arm'd Bunnie.) I'm willing to give him a few more issues to work out his style for Sonic and make it consistent. Considering the way Archie has been, I wouldn't be surprised if this issue was a rush job.

>>220213
But that's wrong.

Bunnie's origin was given in the SatAM Bible. Got put in a roboticizer, got saved by the Freedom Fighters when it was halfway done.

>>220245
My bad.

In that case I don't see what purpose the change serves.

>>220245
Being in a show bible is a lot different from being in the show itself. According to the bible Bunnie is also robotic up to her neck and a trailer trash stereotype. It's not like prople who watched the actual show got any backstory for her.
>>220248
What purpose did making Knux's eyes purple serve? Sometimes people just want to do something different. Maybe it's to make Chuck more relevent to the rest of the team.

Can we shut up about all this sonic shit and check out Mega Man #32!?

>>220250
I don't think most people have it yet

>>220251
Can't wait until they do. All this Sonic talk is annoying me. Let's talk about a good comic for once, shall we, instead of one desperately clinging onto its popularity?

>>220250
>Can we talk about a comic that won't be out for another week?

As a rule of thumb we try to avoid that. Not always very well.

>>220252
Shut up, Boco.

"1. Locate Freedom Fighter.
2. Trouble brews and action ensues with the help of said Freedom Fighter.
3. Touch Nicole for a mental freakout where everyone more or less says “I don’t have time for this right now. I will deal with it later.”
4. Peace out, gotta find the next guy!"
-Astrobot 9000

>>220255
>Astrobot 9000
Looks like Astrobot7000 got an upgrade.

>>220250
Oh, I thought #32 was going to be delayed?

>>220248
I've seen people who believe that even going by roboticizer's already fuzzy rules, getting stuck halfway in is pretty silly. It might be to just streamline things a bit.

Also Mega Man 32 is good. It could be better (mostly in the art department which massively improved but never quite conveys the gravitas or action perfectly) but it's good.

>>220255
As much as this is somewhat true, it's been two issues and the next one already has more setup. There's something to be said for a little simplicity after all those mega-arcs.

>>220255
True, but... as extenuating circumstances go, this is a doozie.

I haven't seen the rug so thoroughly pulled out from under a writer's feet since Dwayne McDuffie's JLA.

>>220258
That was an error with the comic listings that was quickly cleared up. A number of comics under the same listing were all put as coming out on Christmas. The dates were later fixed. #32's official shop date is the 11th.

>>220262
Oh! Ok, thank you dude.

>>220261
Dude, that hurts. That wound hasn't healed yet.

>>220255
Sooooo am I supposed to be seeing a problem here? Yeah, it's formulaic, but that formula serves a purpose, it's reintroducing the team and giving us a little bit of exploration to set up before the Next Big Thing. I like that each character gets a bit of focus first, plus the idea of Bunnie and Sally sneaking in to steal Eggman's tech for the FF feels like a nice little SatAM throwback to me.

The only thing I'm actually disappointed in is this sudden hiccup in the art. The last time Bunnie and Sonic teamed up like this was so great so having this awkward inconsistent art for this story really throws things off.

>>220279
>Sooooo am I supposed to be seeing a problem here?

Don't worry! Dark Gaia is coming! It's going to be great!

>>220250

http://www.destructoid.com/the-curse-of-ra-moon-comes-to-an-end-in-mega-man-32-266891.phtml

5 more days...

>>220312
I honestly can't wait.

So this I like. I'd like to see Egg uniforms played around with even more than this, more variations on the theme... but this I like.

>>220413
>Tundra the Walrus
Havent read the issue, but does that mean Ahleut and the cyborg whales are gone? I loved him and he was 100% Ian

Ian confirmed Akhlut's still around, but reassigned in the new continuity.

>>220425
For a moment I thought that said "redesigned" and I tried picturing him in an Eggman coat.

Flippers through the sleeves...

I know we don't even have Eddie yet... or Beat... or Tango... but this NEEDS to be in the book, down the line.

http://www.destructoid.com/mega-man-feels-the-beat-in-sound-rangers-rhythm-battle-267072.phtml

Anyone here weirded out how much the Pendering mirrors Sonichu?

>Crazy comic writer rips off plotlines from other comics for his own work
>hijacks an established comic to put in what he thinks is good
>fights for copyrights of his characters
>said comic loses the rights to use some characters
>replace those problem characters with near duplicates
>a reboot is planned

man, you guys remember when the worst we had to complain about was Quake Woman looking like a reploid?

>>214141

>>220481
>Anyone here weirded out how much the Pendering mirrors Sonichu?

No. Just very slightly annoyed that people think it's a clever comparison. It was pretty stupid (but sure, maybe a little amusing) a few years ago. Now it's just dumb. Say what you will about Chandler, his little comic was the result of him being a big fan of Sonic.

Ken's never finished a Sonic game. DID try playing the first one, since his son had a copy, apparently never finished the first level. Killed Eggman in the book.Tried to kill Sally. The less said about how he used Lupe, the better. Left the book to go work on Knuckles because that title had less characters from the games/cartoons in it, so there was less stuff by other writers he'd be expected to use.

Sonichu is a pretty sad comic someone made as a means of expressing themselves. The Lara-Su Chronicles is going to be sold for cash, to put food on the table, and it came about because when Ken saw Sonic Chronicles he called Archie asking to see his contract again (doubtless wondering if there was some wiggle room he could exploit), and when he was told they didn't HAVE any contract on file he worked meticulously and methodically to solidify his legal standing before taking on some companies he hoped he could make money off of.

>>220491
Too bad all he has now is a bunch of characters no one gives a fuck about and is making a comic everyone is just going to pirate anyway.

>>220497
>Too bad all he has now is a bunch of characters no one gives a fuck about

People may not care about them outside of the Sonic context. Ken himself may not have been the one to make people care about them. And much of it was likely driven by nostalgia. But it's factually incorrect to say nobody cares about the likes of Enerjak, Scourge, Lien-Da, The Dark Legion, Elias, Remington, Geoffrey, Drago, Hershey, Rob, Uma and her family, Quack, Jules, Bernie (and hell, the Sonic Chronicles cast), etc..

>>220502
>Drago
>Uma and her family

I can't take your post seriously

>>220515
I can think of at least one guy that REALLY cares about Drago, and quite a few that enjoyed watching him get slugged on a regular basis.

Uma was not cool. Her mom was, and if she's gone (and she probably is) she'll be missed.

>>220250
This issue was so fucking good. I hated the last one so I thought this one wasn't going to be very good either.

>>220413
Between Eggman himself, Orbot and Cubot, Axel the Water Buffalo, Akhlut the Orca, Hood the Cobra, and Tundra the Walrus the new Egg Army seems to have one hell of a glass ceiling.

>>220518
Don't forget Tassels the Organism.
Has Beauregard been confirmed as "safe" btw?

>>220519

No.

>>220520

>>220519
>>220520

I liked him and Matilda a lot. If they don't get to stay around just because they were "mentioned" by some other author it's going to be so fucking shitty.

>>220522
Archie SHOULD be in the clear with them. A vague concept like a character having a sibling or an uncle can't be copyrighted, and neither can a name. A name can be trademarked, but trademark infringement is limited to when you're able to prove there's a reasonable chance potential customers would think a product is related to your own product, and Ian's Beauregard wouldn't be confused with another product.

The fact that they SHOULD be safe does not mean that Archie agrees they're risk-free. Until we hear "yes" we should assume nothing.

>>220521
>>220522
>>220523
You guys realize the most likely reason we haven't heard/won't hear anything about Beau for some time is because his entire situation is based around the Sandblasters, who were created by Bollers, right?

Like, if they thought calling him "Beau" and therefore linking him to Gallagher's joke was a risk, they would just rename him (like they did Mercia).

>>220526
>the most likely reason

Sure. And Conquering Storm should be safe, but even if she herself is, her story is all tied up with Khan, Lightning Lynx, the Yagyu Clan, Iron King and Queen, and a bunch of other chars who are in limbo.

Should be safe =/= safe though.

>>220250
Now that Mega Man 32's finally out, I can say this:
If you spoiler an image, please make sure the filename itself isn't a spoiler. Those of us just glancing at the post to find out what comic you're talking about get shit spoiled that way. Know you didn't mean it, but I probably would've enjoyed the surprise ending more if it'd actually been a surprise to me.

So if Eggman's still using cyborgs, but The Dark Legion can't be referenced, what's the word replacing Legionization?

Eggification?
Shellization?
Cybermorphicization? Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosisization?

>>220533
It's a new universe though. None of those people need to exist. She could just be another Egg Boss or just some lady running a noodle shop in whatever Unleashe's China stage was.

>>220542
They don't have to exist, right.
But... they might.
Ken's stuff is gone, just gone, and we know why. The absence of other writers' material was a surprise, and we're much less certain as to what it means. It may be they're gone for good, it may be only a temporary thing, and it might be that the guys at Archie are trying to figure it out themselves. So if worst came to pass those characters of Ian's COULD show up in the book without the other old characters, but it would make sense for Archie to avoid using Beau, Matilda and Storm for now if they're still trying to figure out if they can use Monkey Khan, the Sandblasters, etc.

Mighty no. 9 might be DOA.

>>220518
I thought Eggman was a feminist

>>220541
SSSM#9 says it's "Cyberization".

>>220555
Translation: Anon is mindblowingly butthurt at Dina, the new "community manager".

>>220518
They only had three chicks beforehand, one of them is off limits now, one is in limbo, and the other should be safe to use but can't be used until we know if her surrounding story is safe.

Don't make an issue out of it until we actually know who the bosses are. The only replacements we've seen so far were for male bosses anyway.

>>220516
>And she probably is
She has no more reason to be gone than Beau.

>>220555
Can we get some actual credible proof? It does suck though from what I'm hearing. Do I get 25 buckes back if it caves?

>>220569
>From what I'm hearing

What you're hearing is people saying something is a serious threat to the game continuing because they think it should be. Meanwhile production continues on track.

Several forum moderators were hired, one was singled out to write a greeting by email. She wrote in a generally breezy style, not very serious, and included a piece of rule 63 art.

This prompted individuals to start "digging" into her past, and discovered that she'd in the past voiced vague agreement with Anita Sarkenson's general points, while not being thrilled with Anita's work/presentation. And she'd said she liked Mega Man X, although she'd never played the games. And she's dating someone at comcept.

Keep in mind her position is basically to be a forum/email moderator that occasionally passes on poll information and the like to the people running the games. And she's not the only one. She's bilingual and actually knows some of the people involved in making the game. She has some knowledge of game making, enough to have a general idea of what is/isn't doable. This is not exactly a job that requires a whole hell of a lot more.

A minority of people are demanding their money back. They will not get it. Nor should they. That is not how kickstarter works, you can't pony up your cash then demand it be withdrawn because you disapprove of a minor employee barely involved in actually making the product. If comcept had failed to live up to part of their agreement that would be another matter. They didn't. There were 67,226 backers (of which I was one). It would be fair to say that the people working themselves up over this and claiming it's a huge deal are a minority.

>>220566
>She has no more reason to be gone than Beau.

Ken has no claim on anything related to Beau. Ken has laid claim to Uma Arachnis.


It would be a pretty big stretch for him to claim The Bride of Endless Reach belongs to him too.

Have you met Ken? He's claimed that the concept of alternate realities in Sonic belongs to him. "A pretty big stretch" is nothing to him. He stretches more than Mr. Fantastic and Stretch Arm Strong in a tug of war using Plastic Man as the rope.

>>220584
>"Have you met Ken? He's claimed that the concept of alternate realities in Sonic belongs to him."
My favourite was when he claimed he was the first one to introduce alternate timelines in Sonic, even though Sonic CD came out before he even joined the book.

>>220584
I thought Uma came from Bollers.

>>220584
By that logic, Sonic, Hood, and Sally shouldn't be in the book either. Simply being linked to Ken's characters doesn't mean squat. As long as the terms "Uma" and "Arachnis" are never mentioned again, there's nothing stopping the Gossamer from showing up again.

>>220518
I'd say the gals got hit harder than the guys by this reboot just in general. There's just way more good male chars in the games and SatAM, which is what we've got confirmed for now.

>>220588
There's generally more male characters in everything unless it's specifically targeted at girls, so that's not saying much.

WELP.

>>220579

People knew full well who she was before she got hired. There was a prelude to this stink during the campaign itself.

But the rest of that is on the money. Moving on.

>>220612
He's right that she's not in a position to really have an impact on the game, but he's wrong about her never playing anything Megaman. Before the kerfuffle, someone on twitter said he wasn't really into MM, and she tweeted back that she'd never been a MM player but wanted to help the people she knew. From this the self-appointed "investigative journalists" concluded that she'd been lying about liking X, because getting the wrong impression from short informal comments is what twitter is FOR. Later she clarified that she'd played X way back years ago and liked it, but never really got much into the franchise.

Life's too short for this shit.

>>220569
Mighty Number Nope: The Dina Disaster

>>220579
>A minority of people are demanding their money back. They will not get it.

Amazon allows you to charge back for MN9 up until Dec 30th

>>220619
>Credible proof u guiz!
Yeah, that guy's not only an arrogant condescending fucktard, he's also wrong about several things. He jumped to conclusions, assumed she's doing art and designs for this (nope), and assumed when she casually said on twitter to someone that she'd never been a MM player that she meant she'd literally never even played any of the games (nope). And you know what? I doubt he'll record a retraction. Not the style of guys like that.

Remember when we talked about Archie comics?
Neither do I.

Either way, preview for the end of Shadow Fall is out. I find the implication that Archie, in its current state, would kill off characters hilarious.

Finally got MM#32, highly enjoyed it. Some panels made me wonder if Capcom has the same "no crying" policy for Megaman that SEGA has for Sonic.

Concerning the MMN9/Dina stuff: It's only tangentially related to the Archie series an issue about an individual hired by a company making a spiritual reboot of a franchise that Archie has a comic series of and from the fervor I've seen elsewhere it will quickly eat up threads, so please keep it out of this thread.

>>220632
It's kind of hard for machines to cry.
[spoiler] That one time with Blues /conveniently/ takes place on a cloudy day with his face obscured.

>>220635
and wearing shades under a helmet

>>220635
I'd agree, but he's definitely tearing up in a few panels. Sonic has done the same, but, to my knowledge, neither has full-out cried. (We've even seen artwork of Sonic full-out crying (M25YL) that got turned into just tears building because of SEGA.)

>>220641
Tearing up is like those weird blush stickers: visual shorthand.
Robots dont cry...yet.

Speaking of tangential Mega Man content, how about that board game kickstarter?

>>220632
Didn't Rock cry in Gigamix? And that was kind of recent.

>>220647
Already put my money down.

>>220631
At least one named character will be dead by the end of the arc. Not "fallen into a convenient pit," not "sent to another dimension."

Dead.

>>220661
Hope confirmed for being reintroduced for one panel to be killed off for shock value, you heard it here first.

>>220661
You act like being dead has ever stopped comic book characters who weren't either Uncle Benseses or mostly disliked from coming back. In 160 years when you stop writing Sonic, the new writer/our benevolent alien overlord might just bring them back for nostalgia purposes.

>>220661
If this turns out to just be Black Death or Eclipse, I will be disappointed.

>>220665
I don't see the point of them BOTH sticking around unless it's another type of Robotnik/Snively thing.

Of course, I'm also willing to wait to see what the damn characters are actually like. If you told me that Metal Sonic was going to come back as a redeemed secret agent with G-mel's paint scheme, I probably would have written it off without actually seeing how much fun Shard turned out to be.

>>220666
Oh, no, I wouldn't be surprised at all if one or both of them died. I just mean that I'd be disappointed if the death Ian's talking about is one of them.

>>220661
Who the hell do we have that can be killed? A SatAM character? A character you introduced? Sega sure as hell not won't let you kill off a sega character, and if you could, doing so would be catastrophic!

He's going to kill Tommy Turtle again, I can feel it. There's going to be an unnamed turtle in an egg army outfit, and he's going to get sucked into a jet turbine.

>>220695
>Knuckles dies and becomes Green Knuckles again
or alternatively
>Shadow dies, becomes Green Shadow.

http://benbates.deviantart.com/art/Sally-Redesign-Part-1-419696823

Mecha Sally

With some recent activity regarding Sally's redesign I thought it might be fun to go through the development process and show some production stuff.

In early 2011 editor Paul Kaminski asked if I would be interested in redesigning Sally and I jumped eagerly at the opportunity. I was intimidated but honored to mess around with such a prominent character.

The idea was to do a three stage process, she would be roboticized, weaponized, and (due to Eggman's tinkering) restored with a new design. At the time I believe the plan was already in motion to do a huge story arc with her, keeping her roboticized until 250 or somewhere around there. I recall thinking it was going to be a year or two with her as a robot, and that it could be pretty cool. Knowing that I was going to do so much with the character right from the start allowed me to make certain design decisions during each stage that would eventually be reflected in her new "normal" design (the closed vest for example).

Stage 1- Roboticization

This is where I spent the least amount of time. The only specific direction I was given was to use Patrick Spaziante's design from the cover of issue 29, which was totally fine with me.

Issue 29 is one of the comic's I purchased as a kid and I recall being bitterly disappointed by her interior design. Spaz's cover made her look cool! I don't recall what the story was about at all, I guess it wasn't very good, but I spent a lot admiring that cover.

I wanted to capture its essence as much as possible, but also ensure it fit into the current look and feel of the videogame's visual robotic presentation. I've stated this before, but the videogames are what I like. They're what inspired me to read and eventually draw Sonic comics. I want comics that fit perfectly with the games, and I think all of my design choices and philosophy come from that interest. I don't care what's been done in the comic, or how things look in the comic. It's gotta be like the games!

So decisions had to be made to flesh out this full design-

Removed the tech patterns across her body, along with additional muscular bumps and bits. Too much detail and incongruous with the games.

Removed the shoulder pads. I knew I was going to design a second form of Mecha Sally and those shoulder pads were looking pretty wicked. I wanted to bring those in later to help sell the idea of her upgrade making her tougher.

Solve the problem of her hair. What Spaz drew on the original cover looks neat, but it unfortunately covers the bulk of her hair and just what happens up there. How do those pieces connect and what does it look like as a 3D shape? I drew this a lot, you can see tiny little Sally heads from different views trying to figure out exactly how she works, and eventually managed to get a basic idea for the layered bangs and at least one of Spaz's downward spikes in the back too!

Keep the blue eyes! At least for this form, I think there's something more unsettling about her blue eyes. Like she's so close to being the close friend you've known for the last 15 years, the similarities highlight losing her.

After settling on a general direction, I did the 01 and 02 sketches and sent off to Paul and writer Ian Flynn for review. The only difference between the two is the dark red band of metal at the base of her hair on option 02. Paul and Ian decided to go with 01, but I got really into this band of darker red and brought it back for the weaponized stage, which I'll post later.

I recall Paul wanted to give her thicker thighs and he may have sent a quick doodle my way for the additional metal plates added to her legs in the turnaround at the bottom. It's been two and half years so I can't be certain, but I think that was his idea. If they weren't then I guess I came up with it but either way I liked how weird and slightly difficult they were to draw. I didn't want to just thicken those parts of her legs, I wanted this piece of metal coming off and acting as a type of guard.

Ideas that didn't get used-

Up top in the sketches you can make out a quick doodle where I toyed around with the idea of including an actual saw at the base of her hair. That could have been fun.

Next to the cover for 29, you'll see a doodle for a potential body design with boots that widen at the bottom. I think that looks pretty cool and might have been a good path to go down.

And finally the examples of Mecha Sonic doing wild stuff with his robot mouth. I always liked how imaginative Spaz was and would have loved to see Mecha Sally do more stuff with her mouth.

My favorite details-

The wrist detail from Spaz's original design.
Her little tail spike.
And those buckles(?) on her boots!

Why is the writing in the fox so good but the art so terribly terribly awful?

>>220704
Because Mark Waid is writing words while Dean Haspiel is doing the actual plotting and artwork.

Some panels are really good, but others...not so much. They could use a better artist, but then there wouldn't be a comic, so...

You can tell he's trying to make the queen of diamonds sexy but it just isn't working

>>220695
My bets are on Commander Tower.

>>220711

Tower has the benefit of being a Sega character (though whether they actually care about him is up in the air). Much more likely to be Black Death or Eclipse. I'd put money on the former, Eclipse is too badass-looking not to keep around.

>>220722
>"though whether they actually care about him is up in the air"
Which is why I'm thinking it's him. He's the one character we know of in the arc who has any chance of dying where his death would actually make an impact on the reader. Teasing the brand new characters dying just feels kind of weak. If anything, I'm thinking both Black Death and another not-new character will be going.

>>220729
And its not like Ian can use whatever Great War Overlander backstory he had for him now. He's essentially a cardboard cutout of a character now.

At least he got to name him (but let's see how long that lasts)

Seeing how we lost like 60% of characters already, it seems a little early for killing

Everything not made by Ian confirmed gone forever, everyone start panicking and shitposting as much as possible.

>>220739
Please let's not. Shadow Fall is looking awesome so far, it really doesn't need to be dragged down by the lack of Replacement Maria.

>>220740
No, let's panic and shitpost as much as humanly possible.
That'll solve everything.

>>220740
Does it count as Replacement Maria when she came first and did more in about five issues than Maria ever did?

>>220740
Was the potshot really needed?

>>220744
Yes, because Hope was barely used and not very effectual.
Not the guy you just replied to, but still.

>>220743
Insofar as she was a little girl who became Shadow's morality pet/support.

>>220751
Yeah, but by that logic Marine is just Replacement Cream.

New thread, feel free to continue your doom and despair there >>220754