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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 137991476611.jpg - (44.65KB , 967x541 , Korra_Smash.jpg )
114245 No. 114245
Soon followed by the Feats of Strength! An Avatarus for the rest-of-us!

Our ever-growing chronicle of Avatar fans doing really shitty, outlandishly stupid or unreasonable things on the interbutt. Layeth the Smackdown!
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>> No. 114246
File 137991776134.gif - (597.08KB , 378x213 , 1378313095368.gif )
114246
Got an idea for how Korra can be 'adjusted'. Season 2 finale, Korra gets jettisoned to the middle of the Earth Kingdom and loses her memory. Gives a blank slate to the new writers to fix the parts of Korra's personality that didn't work. Thus, she relearns her fire, water, and earth bending from various persons as she travels to find herself so her style won't just be PUNCH PUNCH PUNCH!!! Eventually, she gets her memory back, but decides to keep being the new and improved person that she is.

How's that?
>> No. 114247
>>114246
Can't tell if trolling or if it's a pasta.

But Korra already knows the traditional bending styles (except possibly airbending), what do you think those old people were teaching her at the compound? She just prefers the faster RC style.
>> No. 114248
>Our ever-growing chronicle of Avatar fans doing really shitty, outlandishly stupid or unreasonable things on the interbutt.
I found this:
https://plus4chan.org/b/a/res/114245.html
>> No. 114249
>>114246
that's literally the worst, "reset by memory loss" plots are the absolute garbage and you should be ashamed

korra's personality isn't really the issue anyway, or even how she reacts to things--her desire for independence and for people to trust her while still needing guidance is reasonable, if not expected for a sixteen year old girl, and it's something plenty of people should be able to relate to. it's the plotting that's dragging everything down.

also things like how scenes are set. korra's uncle has been giving off "i'm a villain don't trust me" vibes since he was first mentioned from things like how his face is shaded, but from korra's perspective, she doesn't really have much of a reason not to trust him. the dissonance between what the viewer knows and what korra knows makes her look like a gigantic idiot, but it's not the character's fault she can't pick up cues meant for the viewer.
>> No. 114251
Oh look, posting has magically come back. Didn't expect OP to go through.

>"fandom" has devolved into a septic tank of pure bile, negativity, and vindictive nitpicking
>hate flows into Bill Rinaldi's dash and inbox
>he decides to take a break
>stuff like this shit goes down (linked post is a succinct rebuttal to said shit) http://arrestedprofessionaldevelopment.tumblr.com/post/62026961363/think-im-gonna-leave-tumblr-for-awhile

My block list has fucking BALLOONED this weekend. Thanks for revealing yourselves assholes!
>> No. 114252
>>114249
>but from korra's perspective, she doesn't really have much of a reason not to trust him
SERIOUSLY, as someone who has been manipulated and screwed over by what was once a trusted family member, you really do not see the signs unless something like that has happened to you before or you're just naturally paranoid and distrusting of everyone around you.

Maybe it's just me but if I see someone in my family sitting in the dark, while I might find it weird my first fucking thought isn't "oh shit, my uncle is evil".

>>114251
This fandom, man, I think we might take this year's award for "most total lack of tact and respect for the creators".
>> No. 114254
>>114251
>martial arts coordinator

There was martial arts in TLOK? All I saw was punches and Vader force grips.
>> No. 114255
>>114254
You were probably too busy being an asshole to notice.
>> No. 114257
>>114254
Its as much form as it is action. I forget which arts they used as the base for the forms of the elements.
>> No. 114258
File 137992881718.png - (150.09KB , 444x250 , Amon_bloodbending_Korra_and_Mako.png )
114258
>>114255
Nah...
>> No. 114259
>>114254
I guess it depends on if you think MMA is an actual martial art. There WAS some kind of coordinated fighting style in the show though.
>> No. 114260
The Legend of Korra: Equalist fight sceneyoutube thumb
Korra vs. Tarrlok (Part 1) [HD]youtube thumb
The Legend of Korra : Voice In…youtube thumb
And so on.
But hey, don't let facts stop you from whining.
>> No. 114262
File 137993776438.png - (158.64KB , 764x453 , korra_tumblr_mt7hmsDo9I1re1lguo1_1280.png )
114262
Okay, I doubt that it would make people hate it less, but what if in The Legend of Korra, instead of it being Unalaq, it was Senna who was the banished royal who totaled the Spirit Forest as she tried to route out the barbarians? Kind of like an anti version of the Zuko/Azula thing.

Maybe have one of those rare mother-daughter story arcs in animation, perhaps do it a bit better than BRAVE.
>> No. 114263
Dammit, I wanted to make this thread to correct the number. This is actually the SEVENTH Aanger thread; we accidentally had two "fifth" threads. Yes, it's a stupid thing to nitpick, but whatever.

>>114254
Why are you still here? We get it already, you hate Korra. You don't need to whine about it in EVERY single thread. Go find something else to entertain yourself with because this is getting old fast.
>> No. 114265
>>114263
>there's only one person that dislikes Korra

top lel.
>> No. 114268
>>114251

I feel this this place has become the only reasonable place to discuss LoK anymore. I mean, critique is fine. I do it a lot, and I believe every creative work is subject to it. And I have my own criticisms of how LoK season 1 and 2 have progressed so far. But the fandom, especially on tumblr, is just....RELENTLESSLY nasty, and completely determined to shit on anything the show does--usually in a show of LOOK AT HOW PROGRESSIVE I AM.

It's like that post going around, of Asami saying "fuck you too Mako" to the blood sucking leech bit. I guess I could be wrong but I thought it was pretty clear that it was a metaphor for the act of ending a relationship, not Asami herself? (Having Mako saying something SO nasty would be a bizarre choice on the writers' part anyway--they've given him dickish moments before, but that would nonsensical). It's like "rip off the bandaid" but they don't have bandaids, so....duh. But last time I checked, that thing had like 11000 notes so yeah. Mako is such a fucking dick oh my god poor perfect Asami!!!!!

In general, I feel like this weird tension exists now, between Korra and Asami. "Enlightened" tumblr fans like Asami because ohhh so fabulous fierce femme girl oooh and a lot of it is tied up in tumblr feminism (I say this as someone who writes a lot of feminist stuff on tumblr). And that's great, but they've made her into this weird fandom martyr and it's....dumb. And everyone is in SUCH a hurry to hate on Korra when she's the character they're taking real risks with--brown female action protagonist with a flawed, traditionally masculine personality who is in the process of learning from her mistakes. I mean, again, I get not being 100% happy with her all the time but jesus, if you're a SJ-minded person, can we applaud what they're trying to do here? And not scream UGH FUCK BRYKE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND CHARACTERIZATION before we know how storylines are going to play out? Before we know how Korra will grow from the place she's in now?

I'm just so goddamn weary at this point.
>> No. 114269
>>114251

I feel this this place has become the only reasonable place to discuss LoK anymore. I mean, critique is fine. I do it a lot, and I believe every creative work is subject to it. And I have my own criticisms of how LoK season 1 and 2 have progressed so far. But the fandom, especially on tumblr, is just....RELENTLESSLY nasty, and completely determined to shit on anything the show does--usually in a show of LOOK AT HOW PROGRESSIVE I AM.

It's like that post going around, of Asami saying "fuck you too Mako" to the blood sucking leech bit. I guess I could be wrong but I thought it was pretty clear that it was a metaphor for the act of ending a relationship, not Asami herself? (Having Mako saying something SO nasty would be a bizarre choice on the writers' part anyway--they've given him dickish moments before, but that would nonsensical). It's like "rip off the bandaid" but they don't have bandaids, so....duh. But last time I checked, that thing had like 11000 notes so yeah. Mako is such a fucking dick oh my god poor perfect Asami!!!!!

In general, I feel like this weird tension exists now, between Korra and Asami. "Enlightened" tumblr fans like Asami because ohhh so fabulous fierce femme girl oooh and a lot of it is tied up in tumblr feminism (I say this as someone who writes a lot of feminist stuff on tumblr). And that's great, but they've made her into this weird fandom martyr and it's....dumb. And everyone is in SUCH a hurry to hate on Korra when she's the character they're taking real risks with--brown female action protagonist with a flawed, traditionally masculine personality who is in the process of learning from her mistakes. I mean, again, I get not being 100% happy with her all the time but jesus, if you're a SJ-minded person, can we applaud what they're trying to do here? And not scream UGH FUCK BRYKE THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND CHARACTERIZATION before we know how storylines are going to play out? Before we know how Korra will grow from the place she's in now?

I'm just so goddamn weary at this point.
>> No. 114271
>>114268
>>114269
>if you're a SJ-minded person, can we applaud what they're trying to do here?

You've really got to applaud Bryke for managing to get the SJ crowd to actually rally behind the rich, privileged white girl, and make them hate the homeless guy and his brown, immigrant girlfriend.

It's actually kind of impressive to see such a 180 in their typical positioning.
>> No. 114273
>>114268
Just go to the nick.com forums. It's filled with poorly written fanfiction and OCs, but there's genuine enthusiasm there that older demographics would both envy and consider embarrassing.
>> No. 114274
>>114268

That "fuck you too Mako" post is the handiwork of avataraang. Someone that needs to relinquish their url at this point.
>> No. 114275
>>114271
Korra is pretty much everything Tumblr wants in physical form, but all that means nothing if the character is completely unlikable.
>> No. 114276
>>114268
In regards to the "Blood sucking Leech" line, it seems like people are really stretching to hate on Mako. You can give general advice to other people without it having to relate to a personal event in your own life. I've never been married, nor have I even been close to asking some. Yet I've given relationship advice about marriage to other friends of mine because I do have a bit of insight just from hanging around married friends of mine. (Specifically, I had a friend who was dating a girl for 10 frikin' years and still couldn't decide if he wanted to marry her yet. I told him, dude, if it's been ten years and you still don't know, then the answer is "no".)

The point being, you can give advice about something without it having to specifically relate to something you yourself have experienced. People do it all the time.

Not to mention that Mako and Asami were by no stretch of the imagination in a bad relationship. Sure, they broke up because Mako realized he liked someone else more, but up to that point, there was nothing actually bad about the relationship. His comment had absolutely nothing to do with his own personal situation.

But hey, fuck it. Mako said a thing so let's twist it to make it seem horrible because anger.

>But the fandom, especially on tumblr, is just....RELENTLESSLY nasty, and completely determined to shit on anything the show does

/co/'s pretty much doing exactly the same thing right now. So I'm in the same boat and just coming here for my fix.
>> No. 114277
>>114222
Mako never apologizes to Bolin for getting with Korra while knowing that Bolin liked her.

Mako never apologizes to Korra for threatening to break off all ties with Korra when she accuses Hiroshi.

Mako never apologizes to Asami for cheating on her. Instead he apologizes for "things getting messed up." Which is probably the shittest and most evasive way to say you cheated on someone.

Mako actually does apologize to Korra for thinking she was just another fangirl and couldn't bend for shit. So there's that.
>> No. 114278
>>114271
Well, Asami isn't "white", but other than that, you're spot-on.
>> No. 114279
>>114268
In regards to the "Blood sucking Leech" line, it seems like people are really stretching to hate on Mako. You can give general advice to other people without it having to relate to a personal event in your own life. I've never been married, nor have I even been close to asking some. Yet I've given relationship advice about marriage to other friends of mine because I do have a bit of insight just from hanging around married friends of mine. (Specifically, I had a friend who was dating a girl for 10 frikin' years and still couldn't decide if he wanted to marry her yet. I told him, dude, if it's been ten years and you still don't know, then the answer is "no".)

The point being, you can give advice about something without it having to specifically relate to something you yourself have experienced. People do it all the time.

Not to mention that Mako and Asami were by no stretch of the imagination in a bad relationship. Sure, they broke up because Mako realized he liked someone else more, but up to that point, there was nothing actually bad about the relationship. His comment had absolutely nothing to do with his own personal situation.

But hey, fuck it. Mako said a thing so let's twist it to make it seem horrible because anger.

>But the fandom, especially on tumblr, is just....RELENTLESSLY nasty, and completely determined to shit on anything the show does

/co/'s pretty much doing exactly the same thing right now. So I'm in the same boat and just coming here for my fix.
>> No. 114281
>>114279
There is no stretching required. He ended season 1 a creep and he just keeps rolling that ball of wax bigger and bigger every time he opens his mouth. Regardless of what the writer's intention was with the "leech" thing it's hypocritical of him to give that advice without contextualizing it because it's not within his own experience.
>> No. 114282
File 137995374345.png - (349.83KB , 498x580 , tribute to mako.png )
114282
>>114277
As far as tributes to departed, beloved talents go, he could've been better.
>> No. 114283
>>114279
>>114276
Do you also unnecessarily give that advice twice, Matt?
>> No. 114284
>>114282

Nothing would've been more boring and ill-fitting than to just make him a paragon of everything good in man.
>> No. 114286
>>114284
How about don't do it at all? Any reference is going to get something that people will find offensive wrong.
>> No. 114289
>>114277
>Mako never apologizes to Bolin for getting with Korra while knowing that Bolin liked her.
Are you talking about the kiss or are you talking about them getting together? He DOES say "I'm sorry" in the fifth episode, at Bolin, but he doesn't specifically say what for (even though all signs point towards it being about him kissing Korra), so I guess you're just going to say he's apologizing for that one thing he did five years ago and is now just remembering, because Mako never thinks about anyone other than himself.

About getting together with Korra, he doesn't owe Bolin an apology for that. Korra didn't like Bolin in that way, even if she and Mako never hooked up that didn't mean Borra was going to happen.

>Mako never apologizes to Korra for threatening to break off all ties with Korra when she accuses Hiroshi.
Yes he does.

>Mako never apologizes to Asami for cheating on her. Instead he apologizes for "things getting messed up."
It was a badly handled moment on the writers' part but if you really think Mako wasn't sincere about what he said, the guy who isn't used to being more emotional on an average basis, you're dumb.

The thing is, Mako says he's sorry quite a few times. He just doesn't go into some long-winded rant about how much of an idiot he is for fucking up, or he doesn't go out of his way to explain WHAT he's apologizing for because THE PEOPLE HE'S TALKING TO KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. YES, if you aren't willing to forgive someone with a simple "I'm sorry" you can demand to know what they're sorry about but newsflash: none of these people were angry enough at Mako to demand he verbally flagellate himself until they forgave him. They, you know, value their relationships with Mako more than the idea of getting back at him, something that this fandom can't seem to fathom.

>>114281
> He ended season 1 a creep
lol

>it's hypocritical of him to give that advice without contextualizing it because it's not within his own experience.
So, the guy who actually did the fucking up in the relationship and realizing is not allowed to give advice because he's the bad guy, okay. Again, this fandom cannot fathom the idea of these characters having actual human flaws, I wonder how they interact with other humans on a regular basis.

Also, WHY would he need to contextualize it? Bolin knew what he was fucking talking about. WE KNEW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

>>114278
She's technically white passing. If you showed her picture to someone who isn't familiar with Avatar (and possibly anime), they'd either think she's white or possibly Latina.
>> No. 114290
>>114286
>We shouldn't do something because it might upset people
>> No. 114291
>>114290
I'm sorry what the fuck does him not being named Mako affect again? Was it nothing? Nothing, yeah? Nothing?
>> No. 114292
File 13799608083.png - (118.02KB , 848x480 , tumblr_mtkubslG4b1rv6ukfo1_1280.png )
114292
>>114289
This is that same stupid argument about what race anime characters are. These people are Ring of Fire-based fantasy races and Asami is clearly the most Japanese out of all of them and they're white as hell when they stay out of the sun.
>> No. 114293
>>114292
Your average westerner doesn't think of long, curly hair and green eyes when they think of people of east Asian descent. Of course I'm not saying an Asian woman CAN'T have curly hair and green eyes, but the west on a whole is steeped in stereotypes. There's also the fact that Asami's design was based off of a white actress.

Someone who is familiar with anime style but not Avatar would probably be able to tell she's supposed to be of some fictive Asian-inspired race, but a lot of people wouldn't.

>>114291
Him being named Mako sure as hell hasn't affected anything, either. The real Mako had an extensive career and if you really think a less than perfect cartoon character being named after him mars the kinds of person he was, you're a moron.
>> No. 114303
File 137999979474.jpg - (299.90KB , 890x500 , 153_fullwidth.jpg )
114303
Look, it's a relatively new setting, with a new cast and a new protagonist that is vastly different from the original; I can understand a few hick-ups here and there. However, there really isn't that big of a margin of error for Korra herself here. There's no easy way to say this, so I'm going to right to the heart of it, nice and neat; Korra's the leading, LEADING (main, not secondary or supporting, main) protagonist who is not only female, but a person of color. Her behavior and level of competence are thus, potentially detrimental to seeing more of either of that in western animation.
Now calm yourselves for a moment and think. After years of Caucasian, male protagonists (or of species too alien or fantastic for conventional categorization) pervading cartoons, suddenly the TLOK announcement and teaser image came along; The new Avatar's going to be a Water Tribe girl, and a rather fit one at that! Finally, a chance to show the viability of female lead outside of Disney movies and animes, something action-oriented and conservatively dressed in lieu of the princess, tokenism and fanservice sets. Imagine the SJ crowd's delight, followed by their mixed apprehension as the first season went underway. While Aang was far, far, far from perfect, Korra's flaws and failures are easily more pronounced. This can be attributed to the show's more condensed running time (12 eps vs. 20), but the multitude of plot threads and desire to establish the setting forced the removal of all subtlety from what could have been a decent character arc. You may find yourself thinking, "Social awkwardness, issues with authority, living up to legacies, learning new skills, romantic entanglements? All this is hardly unprecedented, why such a fuss in this particular instance?" You'd be right in thinking that none of those predicaments are particularly new, but the protagonist going through them is.
The makers have to be applauded for attempting to tackle such heavy issues in TLOK, but when you fail or tepidly perform in delivering upon those themes, it's pretty glaring. These shortcomings don't do Korra's image any favors since as she's intimately tied to the motifs, happenings and resolutions of the story. The narrative's flaws are unfairly piled onto her own, making them appear worse. Thus, Korra being so unique works against her, as it appears to the impulsive mind that switching from a more traditional kid hero to a vastly unconventional one results in these inadequacies. So in the harsh criticism camps you have the rash individuals who attribute TLOK's missteps to Korra being so different from the norm, and the smarter, if no less incensed fans who thought that this revolutionary (a tragically apt distinction) protagonist would be above such pitfalls and her uniqueness was indicative of bold, new stories to come instead of clumsy retreads of old concepts. There’s the common retort that everyone wanted different things from Korra, but the people in that aforementioned latter party were all ready on cloud 9 when they saw her design, and all of them wanted this aesthetic summation of progress to do the same thing: Not mess up and make everything tied to her look bad.
Is it a bit unfair that all that expectation and scrutiny fell on a single character? Yes, but the way she was designed and hyped, you could hardly expect a different outcome. Some would say that Korra’s difficulties are an attempt at deconstructing the ‘tough, action girl’ trope, but in the context of western animation, that archetype is usually held by a side character distinct from the chief protagonist. In that respect, Korra is a rather new entity. To illustrate, it’s like opening up an issue of Action Comics #1 in the 1930s only to see the Plutonian, the Homelander or Kid Marvelman wrecking havoc within its pages. Superman was built on previous strong man myths, but in terms of being a tights-wearing, caped superhero, he was unique. People have been taking apart and analyzing his character and make-up for years because they had this simple, firm test object to refer to. With Korra, who is perhaps even more innovative in her medium, she came to the public shattered instead of whole, and there has been great debate as to how she and her show could be fixed or could do better or if their condition is all that bad to begin with. It’s akin to a meta-singularity wherein people aren’t taking bits of the program and trying to spin out new stories, but are instead scouring what’s there and trying to salvage what in their mind’s could’ve been a work of sublime greatness and import. Again, I must commend the writers for taking a chance with her in preference to giving all the difficult trials and issues to a Sokka or Jack Sparrow type character to play with. I’m of the mind that her character design was a substantial risk (if a bit reasonable due to their reputation garnered from ATLA) and ultimately sufficient, and they really should have played it safer in the other aspects of the show.
>> No. 114305
File 138000228442.jpg - (182.54KB , 640x480 , 1375244335192.jpg )
114305
>>114303
>an actual quality post
>> No. 114306
>>114303
Wow, this is really damn good post re: the negative/critical reactions to Korra. I'm impressed.
>> No. 114307
>>114303
Dang.

I was never really one for getting heavily involved in fandoms before now, so maybe the prevalent attitude in the LOK fanbase isn't anything new or rare and I know ultimately a bunch of angry college-aged fans aren't really going to make an impression on things, but I wonder what, if any effects the show could end up causing.
>> No. 114308
>>114303
Great points made on the whole thing, but it's pretty hard to read without being broken up into smaller paragraphs.
>> No. 114309
>>114303
But it still begs the question, is grading the show, and more specifically the protagonists on the same metric really unfair? And if so, why? Because Korra is a woman of color? Isn't being judged by the standards of her predecessor a good thing, and a step towards equality?

It just strikes me as odd because I can still vividly remember people complaining that a 12 year old boy didn't want to commit regicide and saying that was a mark of bad writing. Is that really different from some of the criticisms Korra gets? And if they're undeserved, what makes them so?


Especially considering that Korra's being a female of color really only matters in the meta sense. No one within the universe treats her any differently due to her gender or her skin color, indeed they have no reason to and no metric with which to consider her any different since there have been plenty of waterbenders, women in positions of power, and avatars that were both; everything about Korra runs the gamut except for her personality.

So in that sense, shouldn't we also be (or at least try to be) gender and colorblind? I worry that just as there might be a tendency to judge Korra harshly because she's a brown woman, there might also be the opposite impulse, to forgive her actions more readily.
>> No. 114311
>>114309
I think he's trying to say that they should have focused on making a well-made, 'safe', whatever that means, 1st season as a base instead of what they ended up doing. Something passable, inoffensive but eye-catching like Avatar's first season.

>I worry that just as there might be a tendency to judge Korra harshly because she's a brown woman, there might also be the opposite impulse, to forgive her actions more readily

Yeah, it's like a monkey's paw. Though he is right that there aren't many main girl protagonists with Korra's skin tone in cartoons that weren't token.
>> No. 114312
>>114307
Well I wonder what they are angry about. The things that I see them complaining about are things that could come from a character that is aware of everyone's thoughts and feelings and that Korra isn't. She's a girl that spent a good amount of her life isolated and is now trying to branch out and some seek to exploit that.

I see this as all part of a story and that she's flawed and that is the point she's not supposed to be keen minded and perfect shes a girl still learning the world and she'll make mistakes big and small. As for colors and whatnot I could care less as long as the story is intact and decent and so far this one is.
>> No. 114314
>>114268
Keep in mind that the vast majority of the activism on tumblr is lip-service. They'll talk at great length about how much they want strong trans**** womyn of color in media, but expect them to be fawning exclusively over the handsome white actor from the latest fandom movie.
>> No. 114316
>>114312
Character flaws are only useful as a writing tool if:

1) Characters within the universe regard them as flaws
2) The universal narrative paints the flaws in a negative light
3) There are consequences to the actions motivated by these flaws

The problem with Korra as a series is that it has a tendency to waffle on these points, least of all because of how easily things tended to work out for her, because the plot mandated they would and because there were so few episodes.

When Amon has to go full James Bond "I could easily kill you now but won't" in order for there to be an entire second half to the season, someone dropped the ball somewhere.
>> No. 114317
>>114312
She doesn't act like someone who spent most of their life isolated. She would probably be way more excited about actually getting out of the city and seeing some other parts of the world that aren't the air temple island or her southern home where she no doubt went to a whole lot of glacier spirits festivals; why is she so eager to do anything but actually see the world if she's so tired of being cramped up all the time?
>> No. 114318
>>114317
>why is she so eager to do anything but actually see the world if she's so tired of being cramped up all the time?

Because she has a boyfriend? For somebody who hasn't seen much of the world, but knows certain parts of it very well, it would likely mean a lot to Korra for Mako to attend the festival with her. Especially since, generally speaking, Mako is the more worldly of the two.

Though, if such is the case, I do think that it could have been better shown. Same as if it was just simple homesickness.
>> No. 114319
>>114318
Oh yeah young people never go on trips together by themselves.
>> No. 114320
For christ's sakes am I the only one who appreciates the ridiculousness of this situation? They literally have as a friend someone with access to unlimited travel by boat, plane, attack blimp, and car, and she's doing what... screwing around with the Airbender children. This is supposed to be believable? Who's in charge of this shit?
>> No. 114323
>>114319
People with rather strict and stern guardians (like, say, Tenzin) often don't, no. Even then, most would prefer to go in the company of friends, and since all of Korra's friends are typically tied up doing something in RC, it's not exactly as though any of the characters really have the opportunity to go out and travel.

>>114320
They have a 'friend' (and seriously, we have no idea how well Asami still gets along with Mako and Korra) who is trying to save her entire business, and has more important things to be spending money on than letting her friends live a jet set lifestyle. Then, there's still the fact that Tenzin is acting as Korra's guardian, so if he doesn't want her to go, the chances of her being allowed to are slim to begin with.
>> No. 114324
>>114323
What's he going to do? Send the cops after her? Is she not 18 yet? Did that not happen in the year it's been since the start of the series? Did she not age? Is the age of independence in Republic City 21?
>> No. 114328
>>114324
She's seventeen. And I don't think Korra is so rebellious she would leave the city against Tenzin's wishes.

In fact, did Korra ever express a desire to leave the city at all? Why are we even having this conversation? Korra didn't want to go to the Air Temples because it would just mean more meditation and training under Tenzin. It wasn't because she didn't want to travel or see the world or whatever it is we're discussing. This argument is stupid.
>> No. 114330
>>114316

Pretty much have to disagree with all three of those points. I mean, simply because we find the flaws negative doesn't mean the outcome in-universe will be. That's just boxing the narrative into personal expectations.

Hell, a lot of times in real life so-called 'flaws' actually help people succeed, it's just not something we like to believe. Is it any surprise then that a more realistic narrative would follow this line of thinking?

It's why I found all that outrage about Mako in the first season so bemusing. The romance was awkward and messy like romances tend to be...and everyone threw their rattles out of the pram because it couldn't be resolved like a fairtale and someone had to be the loser- the loser in this case being was someone with such little development that it was easy to put her on a pedestal.

If anything, we should've seen more of Asami's flaws than take them off anyone else.
>> No. 114335
>>114330
I really think a lot of negativity regarding the Mako situation stems from the fact a good chunk of the online fanbase, which is partially composed of tumblr-going newbie feminists who think every time a man screws up due to a human flaw but ultimately gets a "good" ending is the worst offense ever committed and a lot of nerdy types who hate guys like Mako.

The love drama didn't make a lot of my friends, who have social lives outside of the internet, even blink. Most of their thoughts were along the lines of Mako should have fessed up earlier regarding his feelings but whatever, this sort of stuff happens outside of cartoons too.

Nobody is disagreeing that Mako screwed up, or that the breakup could have been done better, but if there's one thing the love triangle DID get right is that they suck. There's nothing wacky or funny about them, there really isn't some bitchy "other woman" who dared to steal your man (though I don't believe Korra ever legitimately thought that about Asami, she just disregarded her feelings) and that it's very, VERY easy to make things worse than they already are.

I've also seen lots of complaints about the cloudkids' (the first generation) problems, which I find pretty bizarre because it was again one of the more realistic moments of the show. I guess it's like you said, the fanbase wanted a fairy tale situation.
>> No. 114337
>>114330

No, people's problems with Mako in the first season is that he's a douchebag who faced no consequences or repercussions, and who the series went out of it's way to present as the most awesome dude ever. There's also the fact that his sudden feelings for Korra got shoved down our throats at the expense of the rest of the characters. When Korra gets kidnapped, he's the only focus to get her back. He's with Korra's mentor and the chief of police, and yet he pretty much takes the lead in her search despite both of them being infinitely more qualified. Dude threatens to burn an already defeated equalist who is cowering in front of him, and no one calls him out - not Lin the responsible policewoman, not Tenzin the peaceful and wise mentor, not his nonbending girlfriend, and not his brother who is supposedly his moral center.

Then in the finale, Noatok who hates himself and his bending so much that he's started a crusade to debend everyone, stops and compliments Mako's bending. Noatok has never done this before, and the dude hates bending. Why the fuck is this in here except to grind in how cool Mako is? Then at the end after Mako spent over half the season being an asshole to whichever girl he wasn't interested in at the moment, and after he was a complete dick to his girlfriend and caused all the problems in their relationship, he get's to end it on his own terms and run off with the other girl. Both of them are totally ok with this.

Mako in season 1 is a terrible character. That's totally fine if the show actually addressed it. The dude's got a ton of storytelling potential, and his faults would be hella interesting to explore if they actually explored them. Even after all of this his character can be redeemed to all but the most ardent of Mako haters. They just gotta stop treating him as their super cool tribute character and instead as a dude who's got some issues he needs to address. Issues that are actually quite understandable given his background, and if presented well would make him extremely sympathetic. I've already got some hope for this from Bolin calling him out in a joke in ep 3, and those shorts about him and Bolin were fantastic and gave them both a lot of depth and sympathy.

I really want to see that anger explored - Mako's VA sounds best when he's seething, and I'd like to see more of his shady past and see some of his past (understandable) actions come back to haunt him. One of their brainstorms mentioned in the art book was that Lighting Bolt Zolt taught Mako to lightening bend, you don't just teach that kind of thing to an upstart kid. I think Mako hid from Bolin just how deep he was in, and I wanna find out more about this. I want to like Mako. I liked him back in episodes 2-4, and I'm starting to warm up to him again.
>> No. 114340
>>114330
The only thing I object to about the Makorra romance, and Mako's role in it, was the fact that it pretty much pushed all of Mako's other characteristics to the side.

But yeah, I've also always been confused by the immense hatred directed at Mako due to the entire love triangle when to me, it felt more like his role in the narrative suffered just as much (if not more so) than Bolin's.
>> No. 114341
>>114340
It would've been kinda fun to have scenes of Korra teaching Mako and Bolin "proper" bending, since that's what she's learned so far in her training, while they taught her what they'd learned from street fighting.
>> No. 114344
>>114337
>That's totally fine if the show actually addressed it.
Well, there was a half-hearted dig at it last episode.
Not that I think it helps.
Frankly, season 2 Mako seems to be a completely different guy.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that instead of addressing peoples beef with the guy, they simply changed him to a be beyond any of the previous criticsm.
Which is also kinda insulting to the audience in its own way.
Like a guy denying he shat on your carpet when he's still standing there with his pants down.

Also, it makes Mako such a non-character.
>> No. 114346
>>114337
>No, people's problems with Mako in the first season is that he's a douchebag who faced no consequences or repercussions, and who the series went out of it's way to present as the most awesome dude ever. There's also the fact that his sudden feelings for Korra got shoved down our throats at the expense of the rest of the characters. When Korra gets kidnapped, he's the only focus to get her back. He's with Korra's mentor and the chief of police, and yet he pretty much takes the lead in her search despite both of them being infinitely more qualified. Dude threatens to burn an already defeated equalist who is cowering in front of him, and no one calls him out - not Lin the responsible policewoman, not Tenzin the peaceful and wise mentor, not his nonbending girlfriend, and not his brother who is supposedly his moral center.

Gosh, it was almost like he was a teenager who had a history of losing the people he loved and now faced the possibility of losing the girl he loved -- but hadn't yet recognized those feelings for her beyond just liking her -- to a terrorist cell WHOSE PRIMARY GOAL WAS HURTING HER? Good GOD, it's like he reacted like any normal human being WHO ISN'T TRAINED TO DEAL WITH THESE SITUATIONS (golly, that almost explains why Lin and Tenzin were so calm!). Why the FUCK WOULD LIN CALL HIM OUT ON TRYING TO HURT A TERRORIST? No, Mako! Don't hurt the guy who willingly joined the organization dedicated to kidnapping and harming a specific type of people and won't hesitate to hurt anyone else who stands in their way! It's just, you know, they might have the person in charge of keeping the fucking planet in balance locked up in a cell somewhere with her bending already taken away!!

>hen in the finale, Noatok who hates himself and his bending so much that he's started a crusade to debend everyone, stops and compliments Mako's bending. Noatok has never done this before, and the dude hates bending. Why the fuck is this in here except to grind in how cool Mako is?

Why is it Mako's fault that a terrorist complimented him?? OH NO MAKO, DON'T TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GRAB KORRA AND TRY TO GET AWAY FROM THE PSYCHOPATH WHO CAN BLOODBEND WITH HIS FUCKING MIND, YOU'LL LOOK TOO COOL! It's not like your character in a kids' cartoon where the main characters are of the extraordinary variety and are known to pull stints like that out of their asses in the last second!! It's not like a 14 year old girl didn't pick up bloodbending in about five seconds or a little blind girl didn't discover a new form of bending within the span of maybe four hours in the series before this one!! Stop being a special snowflake!!

Also, Noatak didn't hate his bending.
>> No. 114347
>>114337

I don't quite understand the "Amon complimented his bending" issue. I had just taken it as a "Ahaha...you clever little bastard, that was actually good. I almost feel bad I'm gonna annihilate you, now (Not.)" I just personally don't feel Amon was being absolutely sincere, since it didn't manage to actually stop him, just surprise him.
>> No. 114348
>>114346
And just saying: you can dislike Mako for the romance plot, he DID screw up (although saying he treated Korra and Asami like shit are gross over-exaggerations but whatever), but holy shit STOP ragging on the guy for shit like threatening to hurt the goddamn terrorist. HE WAS A TERRORIST.
>> No. 114349
>>114348
Yeah, Mako just did his American duty!
>> No. 114350
>>114340
The reason why we hate Mako so much, I think, is actually due to late-stage dev changes to Asami's role in the story--how she was originally conceived as a protagonist who would betray the group, and what pieces of that remain in the story despite the later decision to keep her as a hero.

Originally, she would have served as the Jolene to Korra's Dolly Parton; she's more feminine, more intelligent, and has a hell of a lot more money than Korra could ever hope for. But her motivation for getting involved with Mako was really to get closer to the Avatar, to lead her into her father's trap; whether or not their romance was "real" or if she had just been acting the part would have probably been ambiguous, leading the viewers to see Korra as the rightful "winner" of the love triangle and Mako/Asami having been broken up permanently--and justifiably--when Asami turned on them. It's kind of a tired way of resolving a love triangle, but it is simple and probably would have worked, and Mako would definitely not have come across as much of a jerk.

Then they got too attached to her, maybe decided the "get rid of the rival by turning them into a villain" thing was something they no longer wanted to do, so they rewrote the later bits of the plot to include Asami in them. Unfortunately they didn't rewrite most of these scenes entirely, so she's often just kind of tacked on while things go on as they did in the first place, leading to things like the infamous sequence where Mako and Korra have a romantic moment RIGHT BESIDE Asami as she sleeps, while Mako and Asami are still technically an item. And in the final version, Asami is a genuinely kind person who chose to do what's Right and fight against her own father who has been morally blinded by the death of his beloved wife. She gave up pretty much everything she had for Korra, and she's shown to be conflicted and grieving about her choice, but she hardly gets any support from Korra or Mako. That's actually when he starts showing more obvious interest in Korra because that's what the original no-Asami script called for.

Looking at his actions as if Asami hadn't been present, he's really not that much of a dickhead. He just got strangled very badly by narrative blunders. If they wanted to keep Asami as a hero (which I think is great that they did actually) they really should have axed the love triangle aspect because it dragged all three of them down. Especially Mako. They probably didn't because they dedicated the entire fourth episode to love triangle shit and would have had to rework too much to fix the gaping hole its excision would leave, which is understandable really... but if it was too difficult at that point in development, they probably should have stuck to the original vision of Asami. Or at least, have her betray them midway but feel bad about it and make it up to them in the final battle or something like that. Something that didn't require her to be with the group between the Secret Platinum Robot Basement incident and the endgame, and would have made it clear that she was no longer Mako's girlfriend.
>> No. 114351
>>114348

A terrorist who was cowering and completely at his mercy. Just because he's a villain doesn't mean your hero can threaten to melt his face off. Not only that, but he didn't even know where Korra was. Like I said, this could have been a really cool moment, if someone had called Mako out on it - you know, like the peaceful pacifist mentor or the responsible cop that just stood behind him and let him do his thing.

>>114344

I can see that, but I'm holding out to reserve judgement until the season's over. I did the same with Book 1, The Promise, and now with The Search too.

>>114346

It's their responsibility to call him out because they're the heroes; they can't always be perfect, that's bad storytelling, but the show needs to at least acknowledge that they aren't truly being heroic. And damn, having Tenzin of all people be ok with this is just plain out of character for the guy! To contrast, look at The Southern Raiders. Zuko doesn't call out Katara, but the entire episode frames both of their actions as horrible. Katara is a hero, but she fell into a horribly dark place and the entire episode is about how she's letting revenge overtake her. She does and says some horrible things, but that's the point and something she has to grow from. Mako 's actions in finding Korra are never called out by the narrative; they're just meant to show how much he loves her. Nevermind that in episode 3 he's stayed cool under pressure to find and save his beloved little brother who is the only family he has left.

And is it Mako's fault Amon called him amazing? No, but Mako isn't a real person, he's a fictional character. I don't have any problem with Mako outside of being boring and not written to his potential. I do have a problem with the narrative playing favorites with him - hence my complaints about him being a douche that faces no consequences, and this is one of many examples. I love douchebag characters when they're 1) meant to be douchebags and 2) get some kind of comeuppance. And I do have a problem when characters such as Amon and Tenzin act completely out of character, so that the spotlight can shine on Mako. And they even write Mako inconsistently so that this can happen, which isn't fair to him.

You seem to think I just hate Mako, which I don't. Did you even read the last part of my original post? I'd love to see them delve into his issues and past. Dude's got a ton of storytelling potential if they actually address his faults (which I am actually optimistic for).
>> No. 114352
>>114351
>A terrorist who was cowering and completely at his mercy.
Who cares? For all we fucking know Lin would have been just as brutal with him if she had gotten a hold of him first and she felt like he was holding out information or lying.

>Just because he's a villain doesn't mean your hero can threaten to melt his face off.
Uh, yes you can, especially if you have a past like Mako and it's a situation where the safety of the Avatar is the matter at hand.

>Not only that, but he didn't even know where Korra was. Like I said, this could have been a really cool moment, if someone had called Mako out on it - you know, like the peaceful pacifist mentor or the responsible cop that just stood behind him and let him do his thing.
Yeah it's not possible the guy could have been *lying*. He is just part of a terrorist group which you seem to keep brushing off as not being a big deal.

What would have been better instead of calling the emotionally challenged teenager out in a moment where his attitude is justifiable would be Lin or Tenzin just putting a hand on his shoulder and giving him a look that says he needs to calm down while *also* be reassuring, because yes it's a really fucking tense situation to be in.

>Nevermind that in episode 3 he's stayed cool under pressure to find and save his beloved little brother who is the only family he has left.
He says in the episode *it happens to Bolin a lot*. That doesn't mean he isn't worried, he's just used to it. And back then, Amon was just known as some creepy guy in a mask who ran a gang of angry non-benders, not the head of a movement dedicated to wiping out bending with the funding of a millionaire and access to electric gloves, platinum mechas and who knew what else.

Mako gets called out on being a jerk plenty of times, or we're at least made clear through other character's actions that they're less than pleased by what he's doing. And in most of these cases, he apologizes for his behavior.
>> No. 114353
>>114350
I agree that it's due to narrative blunder, and that Asami's changed role in the story from it's conception is one of the causes, but I also feel that part of it is how they made Mako fit his role as Korra's love interest.

I think he clearest example here is the stark contrast between when Bolin goes missing, and when Korra does. In the former's case, he was evidently worried but still mostly calm and collected. With the latter, he just lost it - and it seemed too stark a contrast to his behaviour in earlier episodes. Yes, the stakes at risk with Korra's disappearance were greater, but it felt a hackneyed way to try and a) show how much he cared for Korra, and b) create a wedge between him and Asami. The second point is only further reinforced by Bolin's almost causal revelation that the two had kissed whilst Mako was still with Asami.

Either way, whatever the reasoning behind it, I think the majority of the hatred aimed at Mako is because he is, to most members of the fandom/hatedom/whatever-it-is-dom, a nicely tied up package to everything they disliked about LoK. Be it the perceived lack of decent fight scenes and complaints about probending, the apparent butchering of the martial arts style that so many loved about A:tLA, the shambolic love triangle, the poor pacing and even just a general sens eof disappointment because they think LoK could have been 'more'. Whatever complaint someone has about the show, Mako can always be brought up as a point of reference, so people naturally shift their ire to him.
>> No. 114354
>>114335

I'LL deny that Mako screwed-up. He was just resolving the situation. A situation admittedly caused by his own emotions, but then what'd you prefer he do? Lie to himself to stick with Asami, get even more committed in the relationship before breaking up with her? I couldn't really see that being any better. Given the circumstances, he made the best call available.
>> No. 114355
>>114352

You seem to be missing my point. It isn't that Mako did something horrible, it's how it was presented. Heroes do flawed things, that's what makes them interesting. But when their narrative fails to address that they do bad things, it's just makes it frustrating. And this isn't just one event, it's one of many where Mako does shitty things and doesn't face consequences.

Do I need to state it again how I don't just irrationally hate the guy? I am completely honest when I say I want to see them delve into his character more. He has got a ton of promise, but the first season pretty much just glossed over his issues and tried to present him as the cool guy tribute character. I only hated him because he was written poorly. I am totally open to liking him in the later seasons if they do something interesting with him. He's already had some growth, and Bolin at least called him out on his shitty past behavior, so I am optimistic.
>> No. 114356
>>114352
>Who cares? For all we fucking know Lin would have been just as brutal with him if she had gotten a hold of him first and she felt like he was holding out information or lying.
...and once again I have to explain the social contract to antisocial nerds who just want to watch "heroes" kill people. Law enforcement is allowed to get away with shit like that because they are accountable. If Lin goes beyond the scope of what the people of Republic City consider a fair way of dealing with a problem, she can be stripped of her authority and prosecuted for it. Paperwork is made any time she apprehends a criminal explaining the situation, why it merited the actions it did, and which officers were involved. Accountability is the only thing that makes it okay for law enforcement to apprehend and deal with criminal elements.

Korra, or any other Avatar for that matter, or for that matter any superheroes who don't work for a government and either fill out lots of paperwork or have secretaries who do so for them, are not really accountable to anyone. With her power, Korra could easily take power for herself and impose her will on the world regardless of law or the will of the people. This is tyranny. And it is why she cannot just kill willy-nilly like a video game power fantasy character.

Even with a paper trail and accountability, it's very easy for Law Enforcement to engage in tyranny, but these are the things that make it possible for it not to be tyranny.

Your idea of justice is childish.
>> No. 114357
>>114354
Well, he screwed up about not telling Asami about the kiss, though people seem to confuse his intentions behind it. What they THINK is that he wanted to keep playing both Asami and Korra, even though Korra clearly said that she wanted to remain just friends with Mako and kept her distance from him after the fifth episode. When, in reality, he just didn't want to hurt Asami and he and Korra mutually (and silently it seems) decided to just let the kiss be forgotten as a mistake. That doesn't make him not telling her any much better, but I don't think it makes him a sleazy asshole.
>> No. 114358
File 138005670454.png - (53.02KB , 190x293 , award.png )
114358
>>114354
He screwed up very badly several times with Asami. Nobody's mad about him just because of how he broke up with her, it's more about what he did BEFORE he broke up with her. Those mistakes aren't erased just because he decided to drop it after stringing her along for so long.
>> No. 114359
>>114356
I don't want to see heroes kill people, what I am saying is calling out Mako in that moment, given his past, his personality and the circumstances would have been utterly stupid. What I WOULD have liked is for someone to step forward and try to get him to calm down without insulting him, because it was a very tense moment for all of them to be in and I do agree with the notion that it would have been nice for someone other than Mako to a be bit more upfront in their concern for Korra.

And Lin wasn't a cop by the time of this episode, she even says in the seventh episode she's going to start working OUTSIDE the law. Under normal circumstances, yeah, that and Mako threatening to burn off a guy's face would have been bad, but these were not normal circumstances. The Equalists had gone from creepy but harmless cult status to a terrorist movement that's always one step ahead of their pursuers, has access to new and dangerous technology that is being INVENTED by them, so they're the only ones who have it and they're being funded by a multi-millionaire. It's also a group of people whose goal is to prosecute, harm and wipe out another group of people and are not afraid to hurt other non-benders if they need to.

What would have been the point of calling Mako out in THAT specific moment? To teach him he's not so great and can't get away with threatening a terrorist who may be withholding information concerning the safety of the Avatar? After EVERYTHING the Equalists put people through, and were going to put them through in the upcoming episodes, do you really think anyone is going to care that a teenager threatened one of them with physical violence?
>> No. 114360
>>114359
>I don't want to see heroes kill people, what I am saying is calling out Mako in that moment, given his past, his personality and the circumstances would have been utterly stupid. What I WOULD have liked is for someone to step forward and try to get him to calm down without insulting him, because it was a very tense moment for all of them to be in and I do agree with the notion that it would have been nice for someone other than Mako to a be bit more upfront in their concern for Korra.

I agree with this completely. At this point, I hope the writers decide to return to this in the future with a similar situation, and have him grow from it.
>> No. 114361
>>114354
To be honest, I'd argue that Mako did scew up, but so too did Asami and Korra. Even Bolin, too.

It was, altogether, a very messy situation, without any kind of solution that wouldn't have screwed someone over, and it was ultimately everybody's fault.
>> No. 114362
I reject the notion that I have to like Mako just because he's there.
>> No. 114363
>>114362
A good thing, then, since only an imbecile which support such a notion.
>> No. 114364
>>114362
I just ignore him akin to how Padme was ignorable. yep just tuning him out when relationship stuff comes up.
>> No. 114365
>>114358

And what did he do before he broke up with her? He didn't initiate that kiss. Should he have told her about it? Perhaps, but I can certainly understand why he didn't.

Being protective of Korra? He's a protective kinda guy when it comes to people he gives a shit about. I would expect much the same kind of flip-shitting if Asami'd been the one taken. Rude to Asami for him to be so focused on someone else? Not really, the situation was a bit more urgent than romance, and, also, that's the kind of man she signed up for. Perhaps she didn't know that, but then that's more a process of discovering shit about your partner than it being Mako being a jerk.

No, he seems to be operating comfortably within the parameters of 'a guy'. Perhaps that's what's made so many shut-in cartoon-watchers hate him so much, eh?
>> No. 114367
>>114365
It really just comes down to him not telling Asami about the kiss, him denying some very obvious feelings for Korra (it doesn't help he tells her he realizes he loved her when she went missing, but the next episode he's denying it. I don't know if it was a slip up or he realized it but he kept trying to ignore it for Asami's sake, or if he realized it some point after and her going missing was the catalyst for 'like' becoming 'love'), and a shaky breakup. We knew that Mako basically made his "choice" when he said he as going with Korra to face Amon, Asami knew it too, which is what lead to a more subtle breakup because his previous decision told Asami everything she needed to know. We didn't really get to see the moment where Mako decided that yeah, he loved Korra more than Asami and he would need to break up with her.
>> No. 114368
File 138006083458.jpg - (37.08KB , 908x510 , rused.jpg )
114368
>Fandumb complaint thread turns into an example of fandumb

Why +/a/? Why?
>> No. 114369
>>114367
Its quite the pickle to have things come off without actively stating things. I've seen it a couple of times in novels done well and sometimes done poorly. This is kinda the middle of the road since one party is still in the winds at the moment and doesn't have anyone to go to or look as if they could be a choice but that comes in part of her redevelopment possibly. Overall its done better than average.

>>114368
least its not someone spamming them and its being discussed more reasonably then other places.
>> No. 114370
>>114365
No, it was when he started pawing her grotesquely when she showed up hurt then didn't get more than three feet away from her for the rest of the series and never kept his hands off of her for an entire scene once then got pissed off when Asami noticed because apparently Mako is above the petty morality of mortals.
>> No. 114371
>>114370
>it was when he started pawing her grotesquely when she showed up hurt
Really?

>apparently Mako is above the petty morality of mortals.
Yeah, Mako REALLY thinks this about himself.
>> No. 114374
>>114371
To get upset at his girlfriend because he doesn't like him being literally all over another woman without telling her why means that yes, Mako is basically an egotistical sociopath.
>> No. 114375
>>114370

That is outright intentionally misinterpreting that scene for the purpose of starting shit. You've been acting this way for the entire thread, are you honestly ever gonna shape up? We have better things to waste time on.
>> No. 114377
>>114374
>Mako is basically an egotistical sociopath.

Oh, I know who you are.
>> No. 114378
>>114377
Who am I?
>> No. 114379
>>114370

Dude, I've been arguing this whole time that the Mako of season one is a douche in need of some serious character growth and exploration, but this is just goddamn retarded. The reason people aren't taking legitimate complaints about Mako's character seriously is because of reactive idiots like you. He's not the worst horrible thing to exist; he's a asshole teenager. Lotta people were asshole teenagers and grew out of it. The show just has to let him and acknowledge that what he did wasn't right. Looks like they're trying to do so; we'll see how well it's done.
>> No. 114381
>>114379
How, by making Bolin bring it up? Bolin means nothing. His actions are as insignificant as those of Momo and his zinger to Mako carried no weight whatsoever because he's a joke character. They wanted to assuage the people offended by Mako but do it in such a way that it didn't affect anything so they had Bolin do it because he's irrelevant.
>> No. 114382
>>114381

We're three episodes in.
>> No. 114383
>>114382
Well I guess I'll just wait quietly for them to reverse their position of being 100% supportive of everything Mako does.
>> No. 114384
>>114381
>>114383
Well for starters they were already working on book 2 when book 1 started airing, so no, they were not trying to placate anyone in the fanbase by having Bolin bring it up. IF they were to do so, which I doubt they will because they really don't give a shit what the fanbase actually wants (and another revelation: most creators of anything don't, because while they want their fans to be happy it's ultimately THEIR story so they're going to do what they want first and foremost) it would most likely be in book 3 or 4, and at that point in the timeline it'll likely have been over a year since all that happened, so... why bring it up? To please some bitter fans? Yeah, right.

And when Bryke "defended" Mako, it was mostly against people like you -- who thinks a teenage boy who didn't have a normal upbringing screwing up in a relationship makes him a sociopath. They never said it's okay to do these things, they were saying Mako's a human being who fucked up.
>> No. 114388
>>114383
Who knows, it may just happen yet.

For the first three episodes of season one that we saw him in, Mako was a pretty cool guy. Everything went to shit after that thoough, and thus far this season, I'd say Mako hasn't really done anything dickish.
>> No. 114400
>>114381

1) Bolin's great zinger still has weight even though it's a joke.

2) Mako's advice, while worded unfortunately, boiled down to him having learned somewhat from his experiences.

I really don't like Mako, but your vitriolic hatred of him is absolutely ridiculous. If he goes through the entire rest of the show as he was in book 1, then yeah he's an irredeemably shitty character. However, there's 3 storyarcs left, so it's very possible Book 1 can end up as the disappointing season of an otherwise fantastic show. It's also possible that Mako can develop and grow, and we'll look back at book 1 as that time when Mako was shitty and obnoxious. Or maybe with the full context he and the first season may work better. Korra's has had a huge amount of character growth in just the first 3 episodes of book 2, so it's still possible for Mako. From the trailer it looks like Mako will have some kind of storyarc back in RC, and the scenes we've seen haven't involved Korra. We'll hopefully get some good development from him outside the context of their romance. Also it looks like from the trailer his storyline will involve Asami, so maybe they'll have the talk they should have had in book 1. I don't want to drag out the love triangle any more, but considering how it went down, some things do need to get addressed.
>> No. 114402
>>114316
Let's not forget that if a character is meant to have had some personal growth they shouldn't go back to having the same flaws as soon as the writer needs them to.

>>114350
I guess that's what happens when you don't think through the impact of your changes on the story.

>>114359
While torturing criminals may appeal to retards that doesn't make it right. Torture isn't as effective as the right wing media claims it is.

Also if the "good guys" start torturing criminal with their bending the this will just give Amon more propaganda to use against them. He could also use this to justify torturing benders.

Try thinking through the implications of what you're calling for.
>> No. 114406
>>114405
>Let's not forget that if a character is meant to have had some personal growth they shouldn't go back to having the same flaws as soon as the writer needs them to.
Personal growth is based on periods of improvement and relapse until healthy patterns can emerge, and even if they get a lot better at controlling it, most people never get over their worst features entirely--they just learn to be better at avoiding the situations that trigger them.

Look at chemical dependence--the most successful recovered addicts will often tell you that they never really got over their addiction, they just learned to not put themselves in situations where their addiction could take hold. You rarely see people who go from full blown alcoholic to "have a glass of champagne at weddings every now and again."

Only in the land of bad fiction writers do people have a single epiphany and then never repeat bad behavior again. And this has lead audience members who think they're good writers to get angry when writers don't write like hacks. Like moviegoers who get mad when horse hooves don't sound like coconuts being knocked together.
>> No. 114407
>>114402
>While torturing criminals may appeal to retards that doesn't make it right.

I never said anything about Mako torturing anyone. I never said it's the right thing to do. We don't know if he really would have gone through with it, or if anyone else standing there would have let him. Again, what I am saying is Mako THREATENING (not actually HURTING) the Equalist with physical violence, given his character, background and the situation at hand is an understandable human reaction and it doesn't make him a scumbag and anyone "calling him out" on it makes no fucking sense.

You keep going on about ethics and being the better person and how Lin needs to adhere to the law WHEN SHE SAYS TWO EPISODES EARLIER SHE'S WORKING OUTSIDE THE LAW NOW. I mean damn, earlier in the same episode she pretty much waltzes into the station and illegally busts Mako and the others out. That doesn't really sound like whatever you've been describing.
>> No. 114408
>>114356
you really shouldn't be throwing the accusation of being childish around when you have to lace your arguments with petty schoolyard insults
>> No. 114409
>>114406

Bless you, anon. I wish more people got this.
>> No. 114413
>>114406
Repeat behaviour only works if the character is shown to have learned something from previous encounters. If a character gets caught because they rushed into something without thinking, then gets caught again the same way multiple times it looks like they keep forgetting what they've learned. At the very least the character should recall that they've been caught this way before or someone else should criticise them for making the same mistakes.

>>114407
1) Burning someone's face off counts as torture. Also threating them with torture isn't exact very more either.

2) Unless everyone else with Mako has the same character and background as Mako they shouldn't be acting the same way as Mako or agree with the way he's acting. Especially if they're meant to be a law abiding character.

3) I'm a different anon, working outside the law doesn't justify threats/torture, property damage and violence are two very different crimes, and Tenzin wasn't working outside the law so he's still in a position to criticise Mako.
>> No. 114417
>>114406
>Personal growth is based on periods of improvement and relapse until healthy patterns can emerge, and even if they get a lot better at controlling it, most people never get over their worst features entirely--they just learn to be better at avoiding the situations that trigger them.

Yes, in reality. Ths is fiction. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Hell we barely had time in the first season to go from point a to point b character growth wise.
>> No. 114419
>>114413
You people seem to REALLY be missing how stressful the situation was and how, even if everyone there didn't agree with the idea of using threats to gain information, might have been willing to recognize desperate times call for desperate measures (which was probably the case with Tenzin and Lin). It wasn't like they had a lot of other options concerning where the fuck Korra could be, you know.

>and Tenzin wasn't working outside the law so he's still in a position to criticise Mako.
But WHY? WHY WOULD TENZIN HAVE DONE THAT? He had never shown any negativity towards Mako, and in a moment where someone he potentially sees as a daughter-figure could be in the hands of a terrorist organization that has shown that it is more than willing to play outside the rules, why would he just be like, "oh by the way Mako that was uncalled for"? Tenzin might not be a fan of violence, but he could at least fucking recognize that the Equalists were not interested in talking.
>> No. 114424
>>114419
You seem to be under the delusion that torture is actually effective, thus can be justified in some circumstances (even the CIA has found that torture is a poor way to gather information). Since none of the characters had any evidence that this Equalist knew where Korra was, so there was no reason to threaten or torture him.

So Tenzin or Lin should have told Mako not to waste his time torturing people, as it would be quicker to find another Equalist who more willing to talk or continue searching this base.
>> No. 114432
>>114429
>You seem to be under the delusion that torture is actually effective

I never said that. We may as well let this issue drop because it isn't going anywhere.
>> No. 114433
>>114424
Different anon, but you're either dense or a troll at this point. He never so much as singed the guy, let alone fucking torture him. By your logic, everyone on the fucking show is a torturer or attempted murderer, because they actually HIT each other with their elements sometimes! Oh noes! I mean, do you seriously not understand the difference between one thing and another? You can threaten someone without hurting them. You can hurt someone without torturing or killing them. And on this show, you can even fight without hurting or killing anyone because the elements just cancel each other out.

If you're gonna debate things like this, stop and use some damn logic for a change, and use things that REALLY happened on the show to support your argument, not what you THOUGHT was going to happen in your head.
>> No. 114440
>>114424

I don't get get it. I figure it was anger fueled by desperation and fear and Mako trying to intimidate the guy...or at least, he was pissed that a terror group that kidnapped and tried to maim his brother now had somebody else that he cared for in their clutches (even if it was a lie, but he had no reason to doubt it right at that second.)

The guy gave them the info they needed, they didn't have Korra and Tarrlok was lying. If the Equalists really did have Korrra, and bragged that they'll never find her, I'm sure we'd have gotten a scene where Mako wound up a hit or a fire-blast and then somebody would have stopped him, and held his arm back and said whatever "don't, you're better than them" deal needed to be said..
>> No. 114486
File 138046524386.jpg - (368.48KB , 1000x4248 , korra_puttin__on_makeup_by_booter_freak-d6ltkra.jpg )
114486
http://mikedimartinostory.com/2013/06/18/man-of-steel-why-the-story-of-superman-still-matters/

>The father represents any parent, or institution, or religion, or government that wants to prevent you (or me) from coming into our own and expressing who we truly are. This covers the gamut, from corporations not wanting employees to think outside the box, to a society that still isn’t entirely okay with gay marriage. They (the father figure) thinks they know best. They say they have your best interests at heart and they will protect you. But they are just fearful of what will happen when people are living their best lives. I think this part of the film got under my skin because I absolutely hate when someone assumes they know what is best for me.

This explains so much.
>> No. 114490
So it looks like they might be airing Korra on Nicktoons now.
>> No. 114497
>>114490

It's not. Some cable systems TV guides haven't been updated yet.

Why is this post in the fandumb thread?
>> No. 114498
>>114497
I guess it'd be an executive dumb.

Is this actually happening?
>> No. 114499
>>114497
Because the morons crowing about this are being super obnoxious on reg /co/ I mean its REALLY bad. Yea I know its all crap since they've got a panel at the upcoming NYCC and to shove your show into oblivion when its still doing better than most other Friday cable.
>>114498
Likely not, four books (seasons) already paid for and in production and to shove the show into oblivion when its still doing better than Cartoon Network would be insane.
>> No. 114501
>>114499
They're going to be saying it's cancelled for the rest of the book... and then book 3, and then book 4. And then it when it finally ends they'll be acting like it was cancelled.
>> No. 114502
>>114501
still don't understand where that crap is coming from. It should be threads about Eska the hunter chasing her prey across the world on her Glacier, Varrick the Bear Captain that poops money but doesn't have Hunny. Instead of the anger that the threads generate, quite sad.
>> No. 114511
>>114502

But people can't hate those things? Why would people talk about things that they don't hate? That doesn't make any sense.
>> No. 114512
File 138049180743.png - (640.08KB , 1280x720 , vlcsnap-2013-09-29-17h52m29s255.png )
114512
>>114511
eh well I guess I just can't get into that kinda mood about things that overall aren't as bad as other things or that could have been worse especially to the point of rooting for its death and attempting to encourage it.
>> No. 114528
We are four goddamned episodes in with high-but-not-as-high-as-last-time ratings and people are already saying the show is dead.
Fuck every goddamned mother fucking single one of them. You all hate the show, we get it, please just FUCKING LEAVE ALREADY!!!
>> No. 114530
>>114528
Joke will be on them when book 4 is airing on nickelodeon. They can't seem to comprehend that Nick has really put too much money into it at this point to just end it because it isn't getting ratings as high as book 1 did.
>> No. 114541
>>114528
+4chan isn't your personal hug box.
>> No. 114562
>>114541
I don't think I've ever seen a poster who used the word "hugbox" whose opinions were worth listening to.
>> No. 114563
>>114562
Hugboxes do exist, though, and whilst I think it's an utterly stupid word, it by itself isn't really particularly indicative of a post's quality (or that of the opinion it expresses.

Though I'm fairly certain that >>114541 is using it in the wrong term. A "hugbox", as I always understood it, existed for the purposes of a creator, not the fanbase.
>> No. 114564
>>114530
Do you understand the sunk cost fallacy? I'm not saying it WILL be canceled, but that money is already spent, if they're smart they won't take it into consideration at all (though they'd probably fire whoever made the call to make more seasons of Korra): if they've got a better chance to profit airing something else, they will.
>> No. 114565
>>114541
This is the thread where we post about things in the fandom that makes us mad. It was PRECISELY what I was doing in that comment. Fuck you.
>>114562
And it turns out you were right!
>> No. 114566
>>114541

Neither is it somebody else's personal cesspool.

>>114564

And where is this information supposed to be originating from?

Korra's been getting strong enough ratings for a Friday afternoon that I don't think we can justify discussion about this.
>> No. 114567
Yea its doing better than Breaking Bad did till its last season when it got a ratings jump. As long as there is an executive working at Nick that seems to understand they need to get off that yellow drug then things will be fine even morso once TMNT starts back up and maybe someone gets the idea to make it a block.
>> No. 114569
File 138058861675.png - (43.10KB , 500x385 , tumblr_mtysq16Qo31shyazao1_500.png )
114569
Can we let this drop now?
>> No. 114570
>>114569

Fuck. Beat me to it.
>> No. 114571
>>114569
>>114570
Remember what happened to Green Lantern? Everything appeared normal, even to the producers, until the last minute, and then they got pulled without any notice whatsoever.
>> No. 114572
>>114571
GLTAS was attached to a franchise that was expected to make WAY more money than Korra was, it's a different situation.
>> No. 114573
>>114569
God I fucking hope so.
>> No. 114576
File 138060223624.jpg - (51.33KB , 854x480 , 129217940952.jpg )
114576
http://c-d-e.tumblr.com/tagged/boleska
>> No. 114579
>>114576
>YES! Validation. So according to a reply from nick PR, they understand and apologize for the “awful portrayal of domestic relationships” and will be making sure any future episodes starting when episode 6 premires on Nick Toons get extra scrutiny and revisions before being shown. No more of this abuse bullshit. It helps emailing the c levels and stock holders.

Nice to know that Nick is being so considerate of crazy assholes who have no fucking idea how animation works...
>> No. 114580
>>114579
Protip: PR departments speak only lies.
>> No. 114581
>>114576
>>114579
Frankly I'm more impressed that for once a SJW got it into their heads that the woman could be the abuser in a relationship. Usually you see them denying that.
>> No. 114586
File 138065016395.gif - (292.42KB , 245x245 , tumblr_mtxdnuuUW21r3sok3o1_250.gif )
114586
>So not only is Eska a creepy psychotic abusive sociopath, so is her brother Desna. Animal abuse is the number one sign of a sociopath.
>> No. 114587
>>114586
tumbler psychoanalysis are really getting tiresome.
>> No. 114588
>>114587
I didn't think it was in question that Eska & Desna were probably psychopaths?

The issue with esteemed tumblr user c-d-e is that they don't seem to realise Eska isn't supposed to be a heroic character, and therefore it's okay for her to have very negative personality traits. We're not supposed to like her, we're just supposed to think she's amusing.
>> No. 114589
>>114588
She's basically a plot device for Bolin. Surprised I haven't heard anyone complaining about that.
>> No. 114590
The direction I was expecting with Bolin, Eska and Desna was that hanging out with the group would open them up a little because living super sheltered all their lives fucked them up and power of Bolin's friendship melting their icy hearts etc

It seems more like they're going with Bolin wanting nothing to do with her though, and Eska/Desna becoming antagonists

Still not ruling out the possibility that Desna and Eska are fucked up the way they are because of daddy Unalaq pulling some kind of spirit fuckery that turned them into fleshy robots though
>> No. 114594
>>114588
that and they mistake playing with a fire ferret for "animal abuse"
>> No. 114603
>>114588
And I find her obvious vindictive nature to be quite amusing. That sound she made when she first saw him sets it up that she's the cat and Bolin is her mouse that she's going to play with. Tumbler is getting worse than damned Soccer Moms about having people with negative attributes on television..no matter what they are or perceived to be.
>> No. 114609
>>114603
I'm mad because the tag is cluttered with posts discussing the same thing over and over again instead of porn.
>> No. 114620
>>114603
Funny you should mention soccer moms, I was just thinking that we never seem to hear anything from outraged parents these days. I'd go so far as to say that the unlikely event of any show being whinged off the air in the future will probably be down to these chucklefucks instead.

If I were to hazard a guess as to why the shift, I suppose it'd be because the American Taliban who'd normally be outraged at this stuff now have their own hermetically-sealed entertainment sphere, so they operate on the base assumption that the rest of Babylon is broadcasting wall-to-wall sodomy anyway. Complete speculation on my part, but your guess is as good as mine.
>> No. 114621
>>114620

Outraged parents groups can still pull down TV shows. Check out the way they axed "All-American Muslim" in 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Muslim#Sponsorship_controversy
>> No. 114623
>>114576
People like this are so stupid it hurts.
>> No. 114629
>>114621
I stand corrected! I guess I've grown so immune to perspective-lacking fanboys yodelling "IT'S THEM SOCCER MOMS' FAULT!" whenever their favourite show gets axed that I forgot it's totally a thing that happens. Jesus christ, that's deplorable.
>> No. 114630
>>114590
Spirit shenanigans aren't really required, simply a super-sheltered, super-religious upbringing where the only people they interacted with besides their father were servants and religious acolytes who had to do anything they said.
>> No. 114829
http://inbetweenthelineart.tumblr.com/post/63161182185/the-ridiculous-treatment-of-women-in-loks

SO.

MUCH.

ASSMAD.
>> No. 114832
>>114829
Boy, you ain't kidding.
Oh how I would LOVE to sit one of these little shits down and remind them that Korra is the FEMALE LEAD of an ACTION SHOW on PRIME TIME TELEVISION. The fact that she exists AT ALL is groudbreaking. Not only that, but Korra, her family and her tribe are the closest that American TV has come to portaying an Indigenous people (ficticious yes, but based on real-world cultures) that isn't FUCKING EMBARASSING. Not to mention that one of the best side characters of the show is a middle-aged Chinese woman who isn't trapped in the "Mystical/Exotic Asian" stereotype. In fact, a no-nonsense hard-ass cop is as far as one can get from that stereotype.
But no, they're so desperate to validate their own bullshit that they pull things like that post out of their collective asses.
Fuck them.
>> No. 114834
>>114829
To be honest, I think a lot of the points it makes are valid. Some are kinda petty, and this person is obviously really frustrated and angry about the things they're talking about, but that's not grounds to completely dismiss their arguments. I also find myself agreeing with the Racebending.com tumblr's response to it (http://racebending.tumblr.com/post/63321404022/inbetweenthelineart-the-ridiculous-treatment-of).
>> No. 114835
>>114834

>She is the producer-described “strong female protagonist” so we see her yelling and disruptively flipping tables at her ex-partner’s workplace

Except this is fucking wrong and a complete re-imagining of the scene in question. Korra didn't flip Mako's desk because he broke with her, she flipped his desk because he undermined her campaign for reinforcements, putting her family and people in danger. Mako "broke up" with Korra afterward and Korra's reaction was NOT violent or abusive.

What the fuck happened to Racebending?
>> No. 114836
>>114834
I understand the quibble as I've studied writing and working on my own fiction but overall I've seen and read worse. My key point hinges on what what someone mentioned before and what I've seen from networks. They want safe and profitable and very few care to take the risks to actually make new things that may or may not sell and they would rather have a substandard failure that is bland and safe than fail with something that is new an innovative.

The show does have its roughness but its far from the worse of the genre and if it fails then so goes adventure with the idea of the female protagonist headliner.

I'm not saying support it just out of an obligation I'm just saying that this is the first of its kind and so many eager to burn it to the ground with an idea that next time they'll do it better don't know how networks think and will end up killing what they want to see in the future before its ever made.
>> No. 114837
>>114832
THAT's what I don't get, Korra is nearly EVERYTHING tumblr would want in a protagonist:
- a woman of color
- doesn't adhere to typical standards of beauty (though she is still pretty attractive)
- isn't traditionally feminine in general
- actually HAS the muscle to back up her power, and we can see it, her outfit is pretty much designed to show off her arms
- doesn't take shit from anyone, not afraid to do what she feels is the right thing to do
- she's not flawless, she actually makes mistakes and owns up to them for the most part

There's also the HUGE bonus of her being a cartoon character, lots of little girls who need someone like Korra are getting a weekly exposure to her. God knows I would have loved to have a show like LOK on when I was growing up.

Of course, just because she's groundbreaking it doesn't mean a blind eye should be turned on the flaws, because she was created by two white guys and even though they have a decent track record of handling women it doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement, and there is with Korra and LOK in general.

I think the fact that tumblr goes on and on about how we're all human and we have flaws but then fucking tears to shred a show that dares to actually reflect that protagonists aren't always flawless human beings just goes to show how actually ignorant and stupid the general userbase is. Or, you know, Korra isn't flawed the way THEY want it (which at this point I have no fucking idea what that would mean because everyone keeps wanting the confident, powerful woman lead to be HUMBLED of all things).
>> No. 114838
>>114837
THANK YOU. Not only did you further express what I was saying in my previous post >>114832, but you've nicely addressed the concerns of the tumblr post (yes, some of which had some validity).
But here's what they're missing; any mishandling of the women in this season so far DOES NOT in any way negate their past portrayals or characterisations.
There's so much more I could go on about here, but I'm kind of sick of it. Sometimes it just feels like people are all too quick to grab the torches and pitchforks to attack the show rather than just sitting down and enjoying the damn thing. All I want to do is talk about what I'm enjoying about the show with other fans but the negativity just gets exhausting...
>> No. 114845
>>114832
>>114837
>>114838

see

>>114303
>> No. 114847
>>114837
Maybe it's because people are sick and tired of cultural marxism.
>> No. 114849
>>114847
then they should be openly supporting cultures that are different?
>> No. 114854
File 138123398434.png - (1.23MB , 1280x720 , itscomingjustbepatientgoddamn.png )
114854
>>114829
Ugh. Other than a couple minor points, like the lack of more female extras, and the moms not doing much, this is just another piece of drivel that jumps at the opportunity to criticize the show when we're barely five episodes in. And speaking of moms, I love how they go on about the importance of Kya, when she had only one real appearance (swamp hallucination doesn't count) and was killed off. Yes, she died protecting her daughter and had a profound impact on her life, but that's yet another cliche, the Dead Mommy trope. Ursa fared a little better, but in the end, she also "sacrificed" herself for Zuko and the only way we get to know more about her and what happened is through those comics, which happened to be a mixed bag. I agree that Avatar moms could do more. I agree that Old Lady Katara should have a badass moment or two, or at least a good flashback.

But getting mad about the Airbabies fighting? Criticizing how they handled the plot with Jinora? It hasn't even started yet, you moron, have some fucking patience. You think they'd WELCOME the development she's going to get. And that scene with Ikki gave us time to get to know her a little too, and have some cute father/daughter bonding. We've barely met Kya II and already you're complaining about her role as well? JFC, lady, you're just looking for excuses to tear this apart, aren't you?

>>114834
Goddammit, Racebending, you're supposed to be better than this.
>> No. 114880
>>114854
This reminds me, I think the fandom looks at how ATLA handled women with rose-colored glasses. While the characters were great, they're not without flaws.

People talk about how it feels like the Krew aren't really friends, when you could say it felt the same between Toph and Katara. They had maybe two moments that could be considered bonding, but outside of that I'm pretty sure they had some of the least amount of interaction with each other. Katara's big moments were either shared with Aang, Sokka or Zuko and Toph had hers with Sokka.

Suki didn't really have a personality outside of being Sokka's girlfriend. I still don't consider her a member of the gaang because she was literally just there. Yeah, she can kick ass and taught Sokka a lesson on sexism, but if she's going to be a recurring character I'm going to need more than that.

THEN there's Ozai's Angels whom the fandom just fawns over when it was in fact an example of an incredibly unhealthy relationship. We found out Mai and Ty Lee (though with the latter it was more obvious) only stuck by Azula because they were afraid of her, and in the end Mai turns on her not because standing against the Fire Nation is the right thing to do, it's because of Zuko. A guy. Azula has a mental breakdown, gets her ass handed to her by her brother who takes the throne from her, and then she gets thrown in an asylum for a year and basically forgotten about until Zuko remembers he has a sister. She was also basically a tool for Ozai and she was willing to take any shit he gave her because she was so desperate for recognition.

And like you said, everyone's mom is either dead, missing or not good at parenting which results in a strained relationship with their child. There are no women leaders, the closest we got was Azula and she was mentally unstable. Yue, who was of royal blood couldn't even take over the tribe if she lived, she had to marry a guy who would inherit the title of chief.

Kyoshi and Yangchen BARELY got any focus, especially the latter, we basically didn't know she existed until that book 2 game but she didn't appear in the show until the very end.

While LOK's depiction isn't perfect, it's way, way better than ATLA's was. The Avatar is a girl, the head of one of the most powerful companies is a girl, the chief of police is a woman, we know of two woman leaders, the woman who is helping to revive a nearly extinct race didn't just conveniently decide to stay behind in RC instead of going on the vacation and in general is never absent, we have two little airbender girls (one of which is going to play a part in the ongoing plot), the most powerful waterbender in the world is a woman and still has a presence in the show and now we have her daughter who arguably hasn't done a lot yet but again we know she's going to play a part in things later on.

This isn't me shitting on the women in ATLA and putting how they're handled in LOK on a pedestal, I think both shows so far have done a pretty good job. Of course there's room for improvement, THERE ALWAYS IS, but just because Kya didn't kick Tenzin in the dick and take over as Korra's teacher (don't know why she would, she's a healer hippie, not an actual spiritual figure like Tenzin is) doesn't mean I'm going to start ripping out my hair calling Bryke misogynists.
>> No. 114881
>>114880
What I'm about to say isn't meant as a comparison to how LoK handled things, but I just want to point out that a lot of the stuff you just said actually demonstrates how well women were handled in ATLA, rather than how it was lacking. The fact that there were so many female characters with their own flaws and goals and neuroses and self-destructive or malicious tendencies actually speaks to the strength of the feminine writing in it--women were not treated as a monolithic group who all have the same strengths and weaknesses and goals, and they weren't unified as a single unit solely based on their shared ownership of a vagina--Toph and Katara weren't very close friends. That's actually fine! Women don't have to be friends just because they're women. Azula was a terrible friend to Ty Lee and Mai, and was actively and intentionally manipulative and intimidating toward them despite their supposed friendship. That's also fine! Some women are assholes. Azula is one of them! The reason it's a problem in other shows when a woman is depicted this way is that she's often the only, or one of the only, examples of women in power in the entire thing, and that makes anything she does seem like it speaks for all women. Azula being depicted as a heinous villain, Katara being depicted as a busybody, Ty Lee being depicted as an airhead, Suki being depicted as especially dedicated to her relationship--none of this is antifeminist because the traits that these women are showing are what make them individuals. There are a lot of women in the show, and they each have their own traits and flaws, and that's a GOOD THING.

That said, I think you're doing Suki a bit of a disservice. I too feel like she wasn't with the group long enough to establish as strong an iconic presence as the others, but she was more or less the leader of a well-oiled and respected military regiment, saved Appa completely separate from the activities of the gAang (and even got captured by Azula as a direct result of this).

And if you add in her activities in the comics (which, I admit, might be cheating), her relationship with Sokka is barely even addressed.

Now like I said, all of this has nothing to do with LoK. I've only seen the first season of Korra, but from what I saw of it, it didn't seem to be any worse OR better, really. Yeah, they gave a female character the lead role, and that's a nice step at a meta level given how rarely female characters get to be the main characters in action shows, especially those aimed at children. But as far as how the characters are written, the level doesn't seem to have either improved or deteriorated. There are still plenty of major female characters, each with their own unique roles and personalities, and while there's a lot more relationship drama, none of them are defined solely by their romantic entanglements. Even Pema, who is a minor character that serves mostly as "Tenzin's Wife," is more of a mother figure to the air bender kids than a wife figure to Tenzin. No one's weaknesses seem to stem from their being women, and no big deal is ever made about the fact that any of the characters are women in a role that is traditionally male, like Korra's position as an athlete or Asami's interest in mechanical things.

So ultimately, unless something seriously changed in Season 2, I think the complaints about sexism in the writing of EITHER series is overstated.
>> No. 114882
>>114881
I agree a lot with what you said, actually, and I really wasn't trying to shit on any of the women in ATLA so much as try to point out what you basically said: that there really hasn't been any rampant sexism in either shows. That they've both been, for the most part, pretty consistent in how they handle women (which yes isn't super stellar but still really good) but there are problems and it frustrates me the fandom still glazes over them in ATLA's case, but not for LOK. Of course I'm not saying anything should be glazed over, I just feel like it's something of a double standard.

Then again I don't have any major hangups over the women in LOK or how they're depicted so I guess I'm pretty biased.
>> No. 114883
>>114882
Though if they were even in their criticism they would foamed that Suki appeared once and then didn't reappear for almost two seasons and then was promptly captured and had to be saved by Sokka and they would endlessly caterwaul at the strong female being imprisoned and had to be saved by her boyfriend. Regardless of her introduction,her capture or her aid in breaking out of said prison. I could probably dredge the internet to find some myspace or something where someone was griping to the current level, its just not worth the effort. Hell they would be bitched endlessly that Suki wasn't back in the show yet and would have been since episode 5 of first season.
>> No. 114894
Why are you taking feminists seriously?
>> No. 114896
>>114894
Oh fuck you...
>> No. 114920
File 138136737776.gif - (235.83KB , 500x450 , tumblr_mu72adTh4z1ral2jso1_500.gif )
114920
>>114894
>>114834
>>114829
You gotta admit, that this line would've been pretty messed up if it had been said by a guy concerning his female ex.
>> No. 114922
File 138136868657.png - (361.51KB , 558x614 , DearBryke.png )
114922
This is an OLD fandumb, but does anyone have the Maiko response to it?

>>114920
It's true that there are still some double standards where women can get away with things men can't, like how black people can get away with things white people can't. It's usually not a big deal, but I can see the point some guys are trying to make about it. I think we allow "minority" groups to get away with more to make up for the oppression and all.
>> No. 114926
>>114922
Are there any hardcore Zutarans left who still think it was/should have been canon?

Also, drawing them back to back isn't really an indication of anything considering Zuko and Katara had parallels intentionally set up and Bryke wanted to go more into but didn't have the time.
>> No. 114927
>>114926

It was promotional art for The Southern Raiders, so it basically made sense at the time for this pic to be the way it did.
>> No. 114933
>>114926
>Are there any hardcore Zutarans left who still think it was/should have been canon?

Yes, unfortunately.

>Also, drawing them back to back isn't really an indication of anything

Yeah, but try telling that to the hoards of Zutards who think them being in the same scene together (whether fighting or not) means they were ~MEANT TO BEEE~ forever and ever. So them standing back to back like that CLEARLY means they have the hots for each other and want to fuck like rabbiroos.
>> No. 115028
>>114933
I'm a zutaran and I don't think it should've been canon. I think it *could've* been canon, but I personally liked the lore and kungfu fighting better than the shipping in the original series so it's not like it's a thing I'm passionate about.
>> No. 115098
File 138156456564.jpg - (113.09KB , 711x734 , jojo_Whothehellami.jpg )
115098
>>114247
>>114249

The one who posted >>114246 here.

I'm sorry that I was right and you were wrong about Korra getting amnesia and that your precious show did something that you don't approve of.

Actually, I take that back, I'm not really that sorry.
>> No. 115109
>>115028
See, we need more Zutarians like you and less Zutards. I'm pretty cool with you sane ones, even if I hate your ship.

>>115098
Don't act so smug, it's still not going to turn out exactly the way you were saying it would.
>> No. 115118
>>115098
Don't do the "Sorry, not sorry" thing, thats such a pathetic bit of wordcraft.
>> No. 115126
>>115098

Don't be a dick. It's literally the first rule of plus4chan.
>> No. 115175
A post on the anti-fandumb front, worth a read

http://crystalzelda.tumblr.com/post/63856236318/one-mildly-tl-dr-thought-about-the-korra-fandom
>> No. 115176
>>115175
I think this is one of the things that really bugs me about the LOK fandom, there seems to be a large number of people who cannot stand people liking this show and when they see others enjoying it they just get tourettes of the keyboard, or something.

Critique is perfectly fine, but the least these people can do is be civil about it, and maybe if they just see a post that says "I love Korra" they can learn to scroll past it or blacklist the username. Just because people like this show doesn't necessarily mean they're blind to the flaws. Maybe some of the more hardcore fans have come off as overprotective but they shouldn't need to throw in a disclaimer in the beginning of their posts saying they have problems with the show too.
>> No. 115198
>>115176

That's one reason i'm cutting down on going posting at /co/. I feel like the hostility has kinda rubbed off on me a bit. I'd much rather discuss a show high and low points without having to get in a cussing match with anyone.
>> No. 115200
>>115176
The fandom is, IMO, to sharply polarized. Generally, I see people bashed for liking Korra as often as I see people bashed for critiquing it, as though people on both sides of the argument are incapable of realizing that it's possible to dislike the show but think it did some things well, or like the show but them it did some things poorly.
>> No. 115201
>>115176
This, this, a million times this.

>>115200
>it's possible to dislike the show but think it did some things well, or like the show but think it did some things poorly

And that's how I feel. I'm not going to get on someone's case if they say something like "I thought this scene felt out of character" or "That plot point felt somewhat contrived, because of x, y, and z". What I hate is... the hate. All this mindless hate the show is getting for not being completely flawless and perfect in every single way. It's like there's this incessant need to pick the show apart into teensy little pieces, then stomp on and spit on those pieces. For whatever minor issues it has, a good show like Korra does NOT deserve this.
>> No. 115202
>>115200

The overall air of hostility doesn't really help. It makes people more defensive than they would be in an environment where they felt like they could speak more freely and express more variety of opinions.
>> No. 115204
>>115202
>>115201
The hatred and hostility comes from both sides. There have been times here, on /co/ and elsewhere where I've commented on something about Korra that has bugged me, and been told to GTFO because I'm clearly not a proper fan. Often whilst I'm also arguing that someone's being overly harsh on Korra, and being told I'm a blind fanboy for not decrying Korra for it's every fault.

At time,s it seems you can't make a comment in this fandom, positive or negative, without stirring up a shitstorm.
>> No. 115206
>>115204
I think it's not so much whether your comment is positive or negative, but how you say it. At least here and other places where you can have a rational discussion, anyway. /co/ doesn't count.
>> No. 115208
>>115204
You know, it was their reaction to LoK that made me realise just how much /co/ had changed since I first went there to discuss ATLA back in 2007, now I can't help but notice that almost every discussion there is suffused with relentless hostility.
>> No. 115217
>>115208
I think part of it is a bunch of nozzles that think discussing anything has to be tinged with anger and dislike. No clue as to where that comes from.
>> No. 115218
>>115206
>>115208
>>115217

Is it weird that as I'm reading these posts this song pops up on my playlist?

Eric Clapton - Somewhere Over The Rainbow HDyoutube thumb
>> No. 115226
>>115217

Honestly, I think a lot of times its people trying to fit in or look cool or smart now. It's like a contest to see who can say the worst or most witty insult of TLOK more than it is people discussing the flaws with the series. And people finding reasons to hate the show because they feel like it has to be THAT show that they hate. I don't think it has much to do with the show's true merits or lack thereof that much anymore.

It's like being on /v/
>> No. 115227
>>115204

The radicalization of both sides of the fandom is the worst thing to have happened.

Here's an article on the kind of phenomenon we're seeing:

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-comments

Basically, the more one-sided opinions become in any argument, the more people's more moderate views shift to one side or the other and they become more biased, even if they don't mean to.

Because of this, it's hard to maintain perspective of both the good and the bad. And as such, all discussions about the thing in question (i.e. Korra) become horrible shit-flinging fests.

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a way to counter this other than to stop talking about Korra...which, as an Avatar board, we're not going to. So...yeah. It's up to us not to fuck-hole ourselves with glib one-liner comments about how you hate the show or you hate the people who hate the show.
>> No. 115231
>>115227
>that link

So...censorship?
>> No. 115232
>>115231

If you can't moderate, it's the next best thing I suppose.

You can't have riots every fucking day, afterall.
>> No. 115240
The entire idea of Web 2.0 being a place where you would let the average person contribute to the conversation was doomed to begin with and facebook proved it before anyone else. Most people just don't have thoughts that take effort to express.
>> No. 115241
As someone posted in a really good comment in this thread that I am too lazy to find, despite all of the begging places like tumblr do for characters like Korra, the world is just not ready for a character like her. The reaction from tumblr, a site that spawns hundreds if not thousands of posts with that "write a woman who's weak, strong, etc" quote and the fact that they cannot handle a woman who is nearly the embodiment of that statement is so sadly telling.
>> No. 115242
>>115241
Korra's problems as a character have nothing to do with femininity, femalehood, or anyone's reaction to those qualities; her problems arise from her lack of a personality and a characterization beyond being able to bend 3-4 elements; Aang had the same problem sometimes; difference is with Korra there is no mission to train for; and no endgame; they still can't decide what they actually want her to do so she's still stuck on the plot rails of being used in a succession of ploys by villainous waterbenders and apparently actively refuses to get a life and do something that doesn't revolve around Avatar duties she's unequipped either to fulfill or understand.

She's the victim of a prophecy that only causes her confusion about her identity in a way she lacks the introspectiveness or intelligence to do anything about; and the one person who tries to teach her those things she resents for trying.

If Korra were actually a strong character in the literal sense she wouldn't be having these problems to begin with because her wille zum leben wouldn't begin and end at refusing to live up to the job she claims she wanted all her life while expecting everyone to treat her like she didn't.
>> No. 115244
>>115242
>If Korra were actually a strong character in the literal sense she wouldn't be having these problems to begin with

What, so she can only be a strong character if she doesn't have any problems? What would be suitable problems for her to have in order for her to be a strong character? That's what I was trying to say, it feels like Korra can only be "strong" or "weak" if it fits into people's ideas of what she should be like. It doesn't entirely have to do with Korra being a woman, but she is really not so horribly written or handled that she deserves as much backlash as she's gotten.

People called Korra a bitch, a brat, whiny and ungrateful after what happened in the first episode, and that she should be more respectful towards the men who locked her up for 13 years of her life, lied to her about it so she wouldn't complain about it so much because she would think it was what Aang wanted and inevitably lead to a spiritual block so bad it hindered her ability as the Avatar and left her with an identity crisis. Who the fuck excepts anyone to react calmly to that? Not saying a person can't, but if they're going to get angry about it, I sure as hell wouldn't blame them and I'm not going to blame Korra for it. People get MAD at Korra for having perfectly human reactions to things. You don't have to LIKE Korra to understand why she reacts to things -- Azula is one of my least favorite characters in the entire series, but I can at least recognize and understand why she acts the way she does. I can even sympathize to an extent.

>difference is with Korra there is no mission to train for; and no endgame

Maybe Korra's endgame *isn't* some big evil baddy she has to defeat and save the world from. Maybe Korra's endgame is about her becoming a more spiritual and patient person and learning how to walk on her own two legs as the Avatar. Avatars don't HAVE endgames, their jobs end when they die, that's clearly what Bryke is trying to do with Korra -- she doesn't have one big villain she needs to take down, her struggles are more internal than Aang's were (although he had internal struggles himself). Whether or not that is going to really work is yet to be seen, but I'm finding Korra's personal arc to be way more compelling and interesting than Aang's was.
>> No. 115245
>>115244
She wouldn't be having the problem of being led around by the nose by anyone who appeals to her desire to clarify her confused sense of her own identity the way Tarrlok and Amon and Unalaq and Varrick all have.
>> No. 115246
>>115245
Hey, guess what, Korra's naivety is a side effect of her just leaving the compound after 13 years less than a year ago in the show's timeline. That sort of thing, despite what a lot of people think, does not necessarily go away very easily.

I mean, considering that after the whole confrontation with Unalaq Korra started lashing out with people who are on her side (Mako) or prefer to remain neutral (Raiko) because she's under the impression that they're against her is a pretty sure fire sign that sort of lesson is starting to sink in. The sad part is is that Korra had to learn it on her own, it's a lesson a lot of people learn on their own too.
>> No. 115247
Korra has the problems of both Aang and Zuko contained in one body; she doesn't want responsibility but she wants to be taken seriously; she wants to do what is going to please an older authority figure and refuses to consider her own desires and motivations any more deeply than what emotional state she's in.

What Korra needs desperately is to have someone as worldly as Iroh smack her ego silly and tell her to start asking herself the big questions: "Who are you; and what do <b>you</b> want? She absolutely refuses to do that on her own. It's all just fun kid's games and boyfriends and doing whatever a powerful guy who isn't her father or Tenzin tells her to do. That's not a strong character; that's the opposite. That's a character built on the foundation of weakness and capricity.
>> No. 115248
>>115245

What kind of reply is this? This post sucks.

Also, Amon and Varrick don't apply to your....whatever the hell it is. Amon was a fucking terrorist and a direct antagonist, Varrick is playing a larger, more indirect gambit in which Korra has been a party to, but for reasons of her own volition.
>> No. 115249
>>115247
>she doesn't want responsibility
Uh, yes she does, I don't know how people still think this.

>Who are you; and what do <b>you</b> want?
She wants to be a good Avatar and she wants to take on the duties and responsibilities it entails. This, again, has been glaringly obvious since the first episode of book 1.

Korra's problem is that she's TOO obsessed with being the Avatar, because that's all she's ever known. Once more, she blatantly say this in the third episode.

>It's all just fun kid's games and boyfriends and doing whatever a powerful guy who isn't her father or Tenzin tells her to do
Uh-huh.
>> No. 115250
>>115248
Also, Amon and Varrick don't apply to your....whatever the hell it is. Amon was a fucking terrorist and a direct antagonist,
And she did exactly what he needed her to do until divine intervention saved her ass.

>Varrick is playing a larger, more indirect gambit in which Korra has been a party to, but for reasons of her own volition.
Hardly. Getting her out of the picture so he could spring his trap was as easy as pointing her at a target and saying "fetch".
>> No. 115251
>>115250

Varrick didn't have anything to do with Korra disappearing, she went off on her own to the Fire Nation.
>> No. 115252
>>115249
She says that and then does exactly the fucking opposite EVERY TIME. She goes on and on about being something she has no knowledge or understanding of and ends up just being like a kid who picked up his dad's gun running around shooting fire at shit because she thinks "THIS IS WHAT AN AVATAR DOES!"
>> No. 115253
>>115250
Korra barely knows Varrick, we don't even know if she actually trusts him the way she trusted Unalaq, your argument is incredibly weak especially considering his character is more tied in with everyone else in the Krew EXCEPT Korra.

And no, she was never under Amon's control or whatever it is you're trying to say, Amon had no idea about her identity problems, because he wasn't targeting Korra as a person, he was targeting her as the Avatar, as a symbol. If it had been Aang, his attitude would have been exactly the same. If he was around 80 or so years later and it was the earthbending Avatar, he would have been the same.
>> No. 115254
>>115247

>It's all just fun kid's games and boyfriends and doing whatever a powerful guy who isn't her father or Tenzin tells her to do.

Well when you cherrypick and boil an entire season's plot down to such an insipid concept, then sure it will sound fucking stupid! Gold star.

How about that powerful guy Raiko, the fucking President of the UR who Korra directly defied and almost caused an international incident because her parents and People are in danger?

Actual spoiler alert As indicated by the second Book 2 trailer, Korra will reunite with Tenzin and really get down to the brass tacks on the spiritual shit. CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!
>> No. 115255
>>115252
>She says that and then does exactly the fucking opposite EVERY TIME
I don't know what you're trying to say here. Because she's inexperienced, it means she isn't sincere about wanting to do a good job and take full responsibility?
>> No. 115256
>>115254
Okay, so what was the plot of season 1 beyond that?
>> No. 115257
>>115256

Another shittily written post. What are you referring to?
>> No. 115258
>>115257
Chillax, man. He was just asking a question.
>> No. 115259
>>115256

You are very dangerously close to just plain getting banned for inciting shit. You know for a fact there was more to the season than that.
>> No. 115260
>>115257
I boiled season 1 down to a sense which perfectly captures it. He said anything can sound stupid if you do that.

Either tell me what I missed or you just admitted the plot of season 1 is stupid.
>> No. 115261
>>115256
Seriously? You're going to try and pull this. Seriously.
>> No. 115262
>>115259
I'm dead serious. Was there subtext to season 1 that everyone but me saw?
>> No. 115263
>>115260
Probending was never the sole focus of an episode and almost always served as a backdrop to a bigger plot going on, the exception possibly being the sixth episode.

Romance was only the sole focus of one episode.
>> No. 115264
>>115263
They were both subplots that refused to go away and die for the entire series; the first half pro-bending and the second half "romance" and neither of them really added anything that made up for how much time and attention they took up or their deleterious effects to the rest of the narrative because everything was framed through them.

Why did Korra spontaneously develop airbending? To save Mako. Why did Korra get visisted by Aang and get everything back? Because her sense of self-worth was so tied up with playing stupid games and throwing her weight around that she couldn't think of a way to live without them.
>> No. 115265
File 138173080699.jpg - (21.12KB , 288x499 , Kornheiser_Why-1.jpg )
115265
>this fucking shit again

>AGAIN
>> No. 115266
File 138173085621.png - (263.01KB , 550x469 , tumblr_mun9stRRyM1rjqijmo3_1280.png )
115266
>>115264
>They were both subplots that refused to go away and die for the entire series
Probending was over after the sixth episode.

>Because her sense of self-worth was so tied up with playing stupid games
Yeah, Korra was totally spiritual and enlightened and could separate herself from her identity as the Avatar before she came to Republic City, it all just went away the second she stepped into the arena.
>> No. 115267
>>115265
This is not how a character with internal motivation or inner strength or strength as a character in the sense of having well-defined traits would act and the criticism to which I have been responding asserted that Korra is such a character; which falls apart with ten seconds of analysis.
>> No. 115268
>>115267
Korra's internal motivation is spelled out within the first five minutes of book 1. She even says it out loud. To Katara.
>> No. 115269
>>115268
Her motivation is "be the Avatar". She may as well have said "I'm going to be me" except if that's the case why does she still think she has something to prove?
>> No. 115270
File 138173141840.gif - (1.90MB , 200x150 , i5UJC7GKM8aL7.gif )
115270
>>115267

>Her motivation is "be the Avatar". She may as well have said "I'm going to be me"

Now you're just straight trolling at this point. Get lost.
>> No. 115271
>>115269
>why does she still think she has something to prove?
Maybe it's because the Avatar who came before her ended a 100 year long war before he hit puberty and she is literally the most important person on the planet and, you know, it's because it's all she's ever known and six months of being "free" is not going to undo 13 years of what she went through.
>> No. 115272
>>115270
She is the Avatar. She accomplished that. She's not a strong character because she is chasing a self-fulfilling prophecy of never having more depth than the surface of her skin.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>> No. 115273
>>115269

>except if that's the case why does she still think she has something to prove?

Because the Avatar has to prove itself capable since the fate of the world depends on it.
>> No. 115275
Enough.

This has pretty easily gone well past anything like a civil critique of the series and this isn't the first time I've had to ban this IP. You're fine to not like the show, but there aren't many here that are going to take kindly to being overly harsh on it, nor am I interested in watcing people endlessly argue over why you think we shouldn't either.
>> No. 115276
File 138173286376.png - (75.19KB , 500x204 , tumblr_inline_mujln3H25M1ro0fob.png )
115276
http://writingfail.tumblr.com/post/63838999379/who-the-fuck-was-that-a-rant-by-a-disgruntled-asami

Can't believe all of you are kicking an amnesiac minor while she's down instead of pointing out the somewhat self-inflicted plight of Miss Sato (Jr.)
>> No. 115277
File 13817330673.jpg - (40.07KB , 300x225 , meangeneoakerland.jpg )
115277
>>115276

>writingfail

Speaking of pretentious assholes...
>> No. 115278
>>115277
Said the namefag

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
>> No. 115279
File 138173425427.jpg - (9.81KB , 193x236 , jeter_Oh_u.jpg )
115279
>>115278

>"namefag"
>on plus4chan

Dohoho.
>> No. 115280
>>115275
Exiling people that don't like what you like? Korra fans sure are a vindictive bunch.
>> No. 115281
>>115278

>namefag
>> No. 115282
>>115244

Just catching up on the thread after my last post and thought I'd say I really like this post.

Now to continue to read and be disappointed.
>> No. 115284
Yep. Disappointed.

Just for the sake of answering dumb questions; living up to being 'the Avatar' is separate from being 'Korra', as to her being 'the Avatar' means she's entrusted with responsibility, her opinions are wise and she's listened to. To be more general, she just wants to live up to the legacy set before her.

And so far, she feels like she hasn't been able to live up to it and that other people have roadblocked her along the way. This (combined with not being a super-bright bulb) means she's been quite easy to dupe by those willing to tug on those obvious and ambitious strings of hers. This will change as she reconsiders her current course of action and re-evaluates/reflects on her idea of what 'a good Avatar' would do, as opposed to what she feels 'someone trying to be a good Avatar' would do.

...Of course I don't need to tell any of *you* this, but it's nice to have in writing anyway. Oh yeah, and:

>>115280

He was banned for being a shit-stirring little trollop with no sound reasoning or arguments that didn't grossly- perhaps purposefully- misinterpret Korra's character and those of other characters around her, all for the purpose of hating the show and involving us in that hate with the implication we're dumb to like it, or even aspects of it. That's the kind of posting we don't need around here.

And don't you even DARE say 'What implications?'

You know.

YOU KNOW.
>> No. 115286
>>115284

Not that anon, but could you clarify what statements warranted that ban exactly?

I usually trust the moderation here and since Fire Lo likes to come here and shitpost, I'm grateful for it but I'm not sure I see what anon (who may have been her, I don't know) said.
>> No. 115287
>>115286
If you read more of this and other threads, we've had an issue with people just mindlessly bashing Korra and the show. Not just having problems with it, actual blind hate. Also notice that Shark said

>and this isn't the first time I've had to ban this IP

so I'm sure that has something to do with it.
>> No. 115288
>>115287

but how are we defining "mindless hate" here. For me, "mindless hate" brings to mind just saying things like "the show is shit," and "all the characters are unlikable," without real reason why beyond petty insults and when someone disagrees, that person in question flies into a rage when someone doesn't recognize these things as being givens or objective scientific facts.
>> No. 115295
>>115286

Perhaps you're unfamiliar with trolling techniques, so I'll give you a 101.

First, you take a show (or a season of a show), then make a bland, over-generalization about it that is entirely negative but with shavings of points people could believably come to like, oh, say,

>It's all just fun kid's games and boyfriends and doing whatever a powerful guy who isn't her father or Tenzin tells her to do.

Note how this ignores, for one, her not really having much fun, and the points regarding Korra's struggles regarding independence as has been articulated in above posts. And that she rebuffs Tarrlock in short shrift and often goes on to do her own thing without proper consultation.

If you feel like it, you can also follow up with an obviously wrong interpretation regarding character motivation and identity that can STILL be excused as just not thinking too hard about the meaning of words, like:

>Her motivation is "be the Avatar". She may as well have said "I'm going to be me"

Having made something like this on an Avatar board, you're guaranteed to get replies. The rest is simple- just challenge them to explain why it isn't that (even though, as we can note it has already been explained why it isn't in this very thread), and then just keep on sticking to your initial story, disregard points to the contrary or- even better if you can- just use them as examples to back up your own theory. For instance:

>This is not how a character with internal motivation or inner strength or strength as a character in the sense of having well-defined traits would act and the criticism to which I have been responding asserted that Korra is such a character; which falls apart with ten seconds of analysis.

Because you see, other people are obliged to think 'Well, maybe he's just stupid and genuinely looking for information' because they believe in good netiquette and keep on at it, which eventually leads to the entire discussion and argument revolving around you, and you can happily continue to piss fans of the series off ad infinitum.


That's exactly what was happening here. There were no concrete examples as to her 'lack of character' or compelling arguments from his side beyond opinions. No 'discussion', as such, was taking place (or possible, considering the opening framework) regarding differing motivations. What's more, Korra's flaws and frustrations about her independence were being seen as inherently negative and un-characterful, rather than the character traits of a flawed person.

You could say that the anon absolutely fails at subtext, but even in that case someone else describing points to him isn't going to change anything either, and the end result is the same. We have to infer intent and do what's best for the board as a whole- not let it swing from right-sided anger to left-sided anger, but keep everything in moderation.

i.e. Moderate it.

And now you know why they were banned.
>> No. 115296
>>115287
Criticism can be harsh and it doesn't always have to be a long bullet-point essay either. I know it's annoying how /co/ hates Korra so much, but the problem is that the hate drowns out the sensible criticism and the praise for the show. It makes it harder to have a discussion. That's not really a threat here so I'm not comfortable with the mods banning people for having harsh opinions about this show. "Shitposting" is subjective.
>> No. 115297
>>115296

Before I answer, I'd like to know why you don't believe it's a threat here.
>> No. 115302
http://rrm0.tumblr.com/post/63879408490/i-did-it-mako-i-saved-the-company-to-me-this

>She is single-handedly the most selfless character in the entire series.
>If Asami becomes a villain or tragic fallen hero in the next season, it would be completely justified, because she was -no, she is- treated like garbage.

I don't know what they're talking about, but by this point, I'd be pretty pissed off at the idea of villain-Asami.
>> No. 115304
>>115302

Asami's problem though I think is she lacks the kind of aggression needed for the harsh world of capitalism, so I can understand the predictions of Asami being a tragic character because she is pretty much punished for being a nice person.

But I don't think this is bad writing, at least not in the context of Book 2, it's actually pretty good and realistic writing. Asami's being taken advantage of by someone who apparently possesses the sociopathic tendencies that make one profitable.
>> No. 115305
>>115302
>Asami was born without bending powers.

I'm confused, how is this a sad thing? Asami never longed to be a bender, nor resented her friends, or any other benders, for that matter, for having the ability. I guess maybe it has to do with the advantage benders had over non-benders for a while in society, but Asami was born rich and knew how to fend for herself, so she's exactly not a figure of non-bender oppression, either.
>> No. 115306
>>115302
People keep wanting Asami to become a villain because of how rough her life has been (which arguably up until book 1 it really wasn't, she had an incredibly privileged lifestyle and if Future Industries is saved she'll continue to life it) and seemed to have totally missed the part about how her character is supposed to be a subvert of that trope.

I mean, never mind if she was a villain she would inevitably lose and be permanently written out of the show.
>> No. 115307
>>115304
>Asami's problem though I think is she lacks the kind of aggression needed for the harsh world of capitalism

I think Asami is actually a pretty ruthless person. She forces another driver to spin out so she can win, in a race that's no-stakes. She plays along with her father until he hands her a weapon, and then immediately electrocutes him. She's willing to supply cars to the Triple Threats as part of a deal to save her company. Aggression doesn't seem like a problem for her. She's pretty killer.

I'd say Asami's problem is that while she's just as willing to use shady means as Varrick, she uses those as a last resort rather than a first one. So it's not "less aggressive" as "more moral, comparatively".
>> No. 115313
>>115307
I'd say her problem is, not that she isn't ruthless enough or is too moral to succeed in business, but that she doesn't read people very well, like she's used to Varrick helping her out so she assumes he's a good guy so she puts her guard down for him.

Which if you think about it was her big problem last season too, she refused to believe that her father could be an equalist because she only knew him as her caring father. So, you know, if you want to criticise Korra for not learning anything from last season, I think Asami is just as vulnerable to such a criticism.
>> No. 115314
>>115313
In Asami's defense, not very many people in her position would be willing to believe their family member is part of a terrorist organization right off the bat, especially when the evidence only consists of one vaguely spoken line.
>> No. 115315
>>115314
And this is EXACTLY why people should have cut Korra slack for not believing her uncle was a shady character right away. But no, Korra is teh dum lololol, let's all talk about how stupid and blind and boring she is.
>> No. 115316
>>115315
Well don't you know, if your parent doesn't get along with their sibling it OBVIOUSLY means your aunt/uncle is evil, no questions asked.
>> No. 115335
>>115316
But that's actually kinda true.
You're inclined to side with the people you love and when they have a low opinion of relative you barely know, then it stands to reason that you'll adopt that stance.

It's actually rather surprising that Korra was so easy to trust Uncle Palpatine.
>> No. 115336
>>115335

Unalaq isn't a total stranger, though, she at least knew him and his kids. The bigger reason she trusted him was that he was able to get immediate results in battling the spirit, and was letting her know information that was denied to her. At a time when she was getting increasingly frustrated with her mentors, he came bearing gifts.
>> No. 115341
>>115335
If Tonraq was never going to give any indication as to why Korra and Unalaq shouldn't have known each other (and remember, he didn't know that Unalaq set up the situation with the raiders, so by episode 1 it was basically just "we don't get along") and if Unalaq was for the most part civil (they also didn't barely know each other, it looks like Korra saw Unalaq at least once a year) to her I see no reason why she should be completely distrustful of him right off the bat.
>> No. 115352
I hope they don't skimp out on the spiritual uncle being evil. Christianity has been lambasted in fiction across every medium (evil preachers, evil church agents, evil popes etc.) while every other school of religion has been given a pass.
>> No. 115353
>>115352
That's because christians are mostly corrupt assholes who don't follow their own rules and have a habit of committing cultural genocide against other religions
>> No. 115354
>>115352
While every religion has a dark side to it, >>115353 is right and there's a reason why Christianity gets blasted the most.

While I don't think Unalaq is going to be evil, I still think he's going to mostly end as an antagonist with him maybe repenting towards the end.
>> No. 115356
christianity is lambasted the most in english media because we are most knowledgeable about it. our society is "secular" but it's hard to grow up not knowing any of the mythology, even if you were brought up atheist. otherwise, if you're white, you probably know very little of other religions unless you go out of your way to seek them out for yourself.

only mock what you know. don't think that other cultures don't make fun of their own beliefs or have issues with them. we just don't see that very much because either it's untranslated stuff in newspapers half a world away, or because their governments are NOT secular and WILL punish people who make light of the official religion.
>> No. 115357
>>115356
Our society isn't really that secular, and we've had to fight tooth and nail to get it to where it is today. But I don't want to see anymore of >>115353 this. We don't need to be flaming other religions here, like them or hate them. Let's just focus on the Avatar world's version of spirituality and how they handle it here.
>> No. 115361
>>115353
It's not like that kind of behavior is inherent to Christianity, or that Christianity is even necessarily the real underlying cause of such behaviors a lot of the times. The main religion of any culture whose people dominate the world economically or military will eventually end up that way. It's kind of like what >>115356 said.
>> No. 115864
File 138402822463.jpg - (23.06KB , 640x480 , giovanni.jpg )
115864
http://dgbolin.tumblr.com/post/66487716181/the-fact-that-bumi-is-somewhat-of-a-joke-because
>the fact that bumi is somewhat of a joke because he’s a nonbender shows that amon had a point
>> No. 115870
>>115864

What's the facepalm about? Bumi's insecurities from being a nonbender in family of powerful benders is actually being addressed in the show - it's pretty much his key motivation.
>> No. 115871
>>115870
They're saying it means Amon was justified in building a terrorist organization and using it to suppress and wipe out benders.
>> No. 115874
>>115871

Is there more involving this tumblr user because all I see is them saying Amon had a point? That could mean about anything from "maybe nonbenders face disadvantages" to "all benders are scum that should be eradicated."
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