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File 135034593460.jpg - (9.65KB , 287x219 , princezuko.jpg )
110291 No. 110291
When do they learn Zuko's name?
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>> No. 110292
>>110291
When Zuko announces himself?
>> No. 110293
Everyone already knows it, the trick is to get him to say it backwards.
>> No. 110294
>>110293

so... would you say Zuko's name backwards as Okuz? Or Kozu?
>> No. 110295
The first time the Gaang members refer to Zuko by name seems to be in "The Warriors of Kyoshi". However, before that episode, there had been no scenes where Zuko either introduced himself or someone mentioned his name while Aang & co. were around to hear it.

It's up to fanwankery to decide how they learned it. Maybe they heard some of his crewmembers refer to him as "prince Zuko" offscreen, or someone recognised his scar.
>> No. 110296
More to the point, when did they learn Azula, Mai and Ty Lee's names? In The Chase they're still referring to them by attributes, then when they next encounter them in The Drill they suddenly know all three of their names.
>> No. 110297
>>110291
Didn't he introduce himself at the north pole?

>>110296
Mai mentions Ty Lee's name in front of Katara and Sokka in The Chase.
I don't think they ever said Mai's name.
>> No. 110298
>>110297
Did you mean to say South Pole? Zuko demanded information about the avatar back there, but he didn't tell the tribe his name or status. I don't have the episode right now, but there's this transcript:
http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Transcript:The_Avatar_Returns
I tried ctrl+F:ing "zuko", but it doesn't look like the name ever came up while Aang, Katara or Sokka were around.
>> No. 110299
>>110295
Could be that Aang heard it whilst he was being escorted to his cell when he was captured. That's the only time I can really think of where he might have had the opportunity to hear it. And I'm not sure who they'd have met who would be able to recognize Zuko who he is given just his scar, though I suppose the Gaang must have passed through some other inhabited areas before reaching Kyoshi, otherwise it would have been difficult for Zuko to track his movements before then.

Though, I'm curious as to when Zuko learnt the Gaang's names. I suppose he must have picked up them over the course of the first season, even if he doesn't refer to anyone by them until the second half of the third. And does he ever address anyone else in the group other than Aang by their name onscreen?
>> No. 110300
>>110299
Does after Western Air Temple count?
>> No. 110301
Christ we are bored to tears here, aren't we?
>> No. 110302
If you can think of anything better to talk about, I'd like to hear it.
>> No. 110303
>>110302
Why was Zuko able to firebend in Western Air Temple, but not the Firebending Masters? Why wasn't the knowledge that he was fighting to save thousands of people's lives not enough to give him a sense of drive, whereas restoring his own honour and power apparently had been beforehand?
>> No. 110304
>>110303
He only firebended once, when he was half asleep, as a defense mechanism

But The Firebending Masters was a bad episode
>> No. 110305
>>110303

He was probably still running on adrenalin and anxiety at that point. Once he joined the Gaang, he calmed down and his firebending issue caught up with him.

And I really liked The Firebending Masters, but I thought it made Iroh a lot less interesting. Actually, I hate how Iroh was written in the last season (loved the guy in seasons 1 and 2).
>> No. 110342
>>110305
I didn't really see a change in his personality just his drive. What didn't you like about iroh?
>> No. 110343
>>110342

I felt that TFM made him too perfect.

I didn't like how he left Zuko out to dry at the end of the series. He says he loves his nephew like his own son, but he immediately leaves Zuko in charge of what will be an unstable nation that ends up trying to assassinate him several times. It'd be one thing if he retired to start a tea shop in/near the FN capitol so that he could give Zuko independence but help out if situations got real bad, but Iroh moves all the way across the world. Plus, his reasoning to not fight Ozai and leave it to Aang (a 12 year old) at the end was pretty bullshit since he had no problem sending Zuko off to fight Azula (and for all he knew, a palace full of imperial guards) for the throne.
>> No. 110349
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110349
>>110343

I've always liked to fanwank that Iroh "retiring" to his tea shop in BSS was a polite way of telling a still-fragile Zuko that he was giving himself up as a hostage to the Earth Kingdom as collateral for a peace treaty between it and the FN. Although "The Promise" torpedoed that idea, given Kuei or Zuko should have brought it up as an issue if war loomed.

But I think Iroh's actions throughout AtLA's "present day" make a lot more sense if you view him as having given up on any sort of proactive life. Iroh in Episode 1, before Aang defrosts, is dedicated to drinking tea and dying of old age on Zuko's boat.

After Aang defrosts, nothing really changes. Iroh repeatedly puts in a kind word for Zuko, and stands up against the EK soldiers that arrest him, but he's still a very passive figure in the show. He lets Zuko go off on what's basically a suicide mission at the North Pole, knowing full well (as he later admits under Lake Laogai) that Zuko had no plan and no place to take Aang even *if* he captured him. He's content to slip into BSS as a refugee and disappear into a humble peasant's life. Even when he finally confronts Zuko under Lake Laogai, the confrontation only comes after 3.5 years of putting up with Zuko's shit on a daily basis.

It's only once Iroh has lost *everything* left to him in his retirement, from Zuko on down to his creature comforts, that he gets back into fighting shape and becomes proactive. Even then, as you point out, Iroh gives all that up again soon afterward; he rejects power and returns to his tea shop. For all his past glory, the death of Lu Ten seems to have drained Iroh of any great ambition.

But the downsides to being so passive gets, well, a pass from the majority of the fandom. Being a cool badass allows one to get away with lots of bad behavior.
>> No. 110354
>>110349
I don't see how The Promise negates Iroh being a "hostage". Just because it isn't brought up, iirc the only mention of Iroh was Zuko wishing he was there to help.

Zuko knows Iroh could take care of himself if need be, and it was a little more tame than even the series, no one even got hurt. Talking about someone being held hostage is a little heavy for the audience I think.

Iroh let Zuko grow on his own, and they did show him tailing Zuko when he wandered off on his own. Iroh only has the passing appearance of a retired old man, he's really got his eye on everything at all times.

He has that super-impossible level of Batman like near-omnipotence. He probably knew Azula was at her breaking point if she was left behind at the palance for Ozai to go ahead without her, and that Zuko in his final form and Katara could take her.

He knew that Zuko had to be seen leading the Fire Nation for the same reason he didn't take the throne, and to be fair the last time he led anything was 15~ years earlier and that was only an army. He knows about as much about civil leadership as Zuko does, but Zuko has the advantage of being untainted by serious military leadership so he has a more open mind about it.
>> No. 110358
>>110354
Well, holding Iroh as a hostage is a major ace in the hole for the EK - it means that when they feel Zuko's beginning to push his the boundaries of what's acceptable, they can use the threat of something happening to Iroh in order to discourage him. The fact that they didn't do so in the face of a looming war is rather off, though it could be justified by the EK deciding that they could still force the colonists and FN out with brute force. But the lack of any kind of threats against Iroh does suggest he isn't a hostage, though I suspect that's because of the target audience, how well liked Iroh is by the fandom and because Yang wanted to avoid an overly negative portrayal of the EK.

And I think you may be overstating Iroh's knowledge of the situation. I highly doubt that he he had any idea about Azula's impending breakdown, and besides from Lake Laogai where he accurately predicts that Zuko's going to try something, he never really displays that much foresight about what's going to happen.

Whilst I can understand and accept Iroh's reaosnign for not taking the throne after the war, I'd argue that Iroh knows more about civil leadership thatn Zuko. As Crown Prince, he'd have been taught how to manage the nation for msot of his life - whilst the same's true for Zuko, Iroh has had more time and oppurtunity to put those lessons to practice, and has actual experience with running large organizations as a General, whereas Zuko hasn't.
>> No. 110364
Sorry but IMO Iroh's character development is poor.
>> No. 110372
>>110364
He's a side character. Giving him enough focus to get character development would have taken time away from more important characters. Contrary to what Amateur Internet Literary Critics think, undeveloped characters are not bad characters--it's undeveloped main characters that are bad. Side characters' only jobs are to entertain and/or to aid or hinder the main characters in their own development.
>> No. 110373
>>110372
I guess that's why people like Batman's rogues and verse so much.
>> No. 110374
>>110373
Batman has been running for like 80 years now, with like four comics a month. Avatar had about 60 22 minute episodes. You are comparing a title which essentially has infinite time to work with (and in fact, far more time than it has material) with something that had a single story to tell in a limited amount of time.
>> No. 110396
>>110358
He was also taught in a way that he would lead a military and aggressive nation, they didn't figure the war would end anytime soon. Explains why he was such a good general.


They may be trying to convey him being able to predict what's going to happen or whatnot. Frankly he also did a lot to show he knew how Azula thought, like when he redirected her lightning in the nick of time, how he knew when they were being chased/tailed etc etc.

But the fact is is thats purposefully left ambiguous because they don't need to pound it in your head one way or the other. It could also be that he just had faith that everything would work out, who knows? It's not super complicated like that, it's a story where you know the hero will win from day one, so when someone goes off to face their doom, you can't always give a super good explanation when they come out of it on top.
>> No. 110398
>>110396
At least it means he has some idea as to how run a nation, which is better than what Zuko has. The fact still remains that Iroh would still have been taught a lot of stuff that is still applicable even when the country isn't at war.

> like when he redirected her lightning in the nick of time
I think the likelihood of Iroh recognizing the form Azula was using is greater than that of some kind of prescience that allowed him to predict her actions, and I also don't believe it showed that Iroh had a particularly great understanding of Azula either.

And at what point does Iroh realized they're being trailed? I can't recall any scene like that.
>> No. 110405
>>110398
I can't believe I gotta explain this, he's the Yoda of the show, he just knows shit as a plot device.
>> No. 110408
>>110405
I don't know why it should surprise you. When you make a claim, you should at least try to explain it and give examples. I'm curious behind your reasoning, so I'm pointing out the parts of it I don't understand in the hope you'll clarify for me.
>> No. 110479
>>110405
He doesn't though. He's competent but he's hardly a lame hax figure that knows everything.
>> No. 113364
File 137582015395.jpg - (112.91KB , 500x500 , vishnya-500x500.jpg )
113364
About Zuko people knows and in USSR!
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