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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 133961305744.jpg - (69.13KB , 1024x768 , DSC02834.jpg )
104442 No. 104442
After the episode "Out of the Past", there's been a lot of criticism of Korra's writing on /co/. The episode handled certain subplots in a very sudden, awkward fashion, which bothered a lot of viewers. Also, many people realized that the writing issues didn't just suddenly come out of the blue; they've actually been a consistent theme throughout the series so far. Plotpoints get rushed, characters are behaving oddly, or things aren't properly explained on-screen.

Often when people are criticising a creative work, someone gets defensive and will state "well why don't _you_ try to do it better". So let's try to make Korra better.

It's like this: Legend of Korra is right now under production, and Bryke have hired you to assist in writing the script. They've showed you some concept art of characters and Republic City themes, as well as a script/draft that details everything we've seen in the past episodes. What now? Which parts of the script are the weakest and could use some improvements? What kinds of changes and suggestions do you have in your mind?

Also, be sure to remember that you've been hired to write twelve episodes. You have no idea if the series will be successful enough to get a second season, or if these twelve episodes will be all. The series must be able to stand on its own, and it must be streamlined enough to resolve all the major plotlines by the end of the season.

I've got some thoughts but they're very TL;DR, so I'll just post a pastebin.
http://pastebin.com/sHXGpYJq
They're just quick thoughts and not a complete outline of a script, though.
Expand all images
>> No. 104444
>>104442
I like it. As much as I love pro-bending, you're right that playing up the triad issue would be great for character and setting development.

Also, the oft-discussed Amon/Korra teamup to take down Tarrlok: yes. I am such a sucker for 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' scenarios.
>> No. 104445
Korra's lack of spirituality and her rash nature lead her to make mistakes. Mistakes that end up hurting people. Only when at one point she hurts someone close to her, she sees how she should be more like Tenzin, and unlocks her airbending.
>> No. 104447
I think this whole thing is complete bullshit. The writing is FINE. What we have is a series that only has 26 episodes to tell its story, not the 60+ the original show got. Bottom line: this show does not have time to fuck around, it has things to do. And frankly it's doing just that. Sure it'd be nice if there was time to do things like meet more of the new characters, check in with the old and see how the world has progressed in those 70 years since the Gaang had it's first adventures, but that's just what this show is. The sooner people accept that, the better.
Yes, everyone is entitlted to their opinions, but the failings most people are finding bascially amount to the show NOT being about the previous cast.
>> No. 104448
I find this a bit premature and lot of these changes to be completely arbitrary and unnecessary, so I'm waiting for the season to be over before i get into this.
Like Bryan said
>a lot of these reactions may turn out to be knee-jerk ones in the long run, once you see where the stories and characters go
>> No. 104449
I've been mulling over this a lot, although in the context of thinking how TLoK could work condensed down to a movie, but for the 12 episode series there are a few points that need fixing...

1. Rework or Minimize Pro-Bending -- It's a great concept, but it really sucked up valuable time from both the Equalist and Airbending story arcs without returning anything. It either needs to be dropped entirely, moved to Season 2, or reworked somehow (as the OP suggested).

In canon, pro-bending was introduced as a way for Korra to express her freedom (getting off Air Temple Island), to show the struggle between modernity and tradition (why Tenzin hated the "mockery" the sport made of bending as an art), and to give her a practical way to use her airbending training. Yet all those threads get dropped after Episode 2. If pro-bending is kept, it must service Korra's airbending training and the Equalist arc more.

If it's dropped, then Mako and Bolin need to express their core story -- impoverished benders trying to make good -- in another fashion. Having one or both of them work for the Triple Threats has merit, as it'd give the show more of a chance to focus on the underclass and the conflicting ethnic groups (for lack of a better word) in the show. Or, say, have Mako and Bolin work in a shop, pro-bending only in their off-hours as a serious hobby, and defend the fact that they have to pay protection to the triads to Korra. "The cops don't care about the poor" or "they look away from the really multi-ethnic parts of town" or "the triads are our own people, and we don't rat them out to the cop."

Organized crime usually is most effective where the government is the least effective, moving into and filing valuable niches. Protection money means the Triple Threats don't burn down your shop, but it also means they keep the riff-raff and other gangs from making trouble so you can walk around your neighborhood at night. Which is something that might be too dark and cynical for a kid's show, but I'd hope it could deal with the topic in some fashion.

Which leads into...


2. Develop Republic City more -- We do know the penalty rules in pro-bending but we don't know if the ruling council is elected or appointed!

The "bender VS non-bender" conflict also comes off as detached when we don't know the stakes. For all Amon talks about bender oppression, we didn't see much of it before the arena attack allowed Tarrlok to make his play. Are non-benders really being oppressed? If so, the show needs to demonstrate how in more ways than just one gangster scene in episode one. If they aren't, the show needs to demonstrate why not plus why Amon argument is popular enough to fill a large warehouse (like, for example, by scapegoating benders in the midst of a long economic depression.)

Republic City is poorly developed as a setting. Different cities have characters all their own. When you think of Chicago or Detroit or LA, they all conjure up different ideas and sentiments. Yet Republic City is bland and comes off as a city without a soul. This may be due, in part, to the lack of attention paid to the rest of the world. We know Korra thought Republic City basically had streets paved with gold, but what about the rest of the world? What do they think of RC? Are they envious of its wealth? Do they think its multiculturalism is a crock? Do they see it as glamorous but corrupt to the core? And how do the people of RC see themselves in relation to the rest of the world?

Heck, how about why Republic City seemingly went to pot after Aang died? What changed in the last fifteen years? Or are there things about Aang that aren't being spoken of, because wasn't say such things of the dead?

Developing RC would enrich the other arcs greatly, giving them added weight and grounding them in a living world.
>> No. 104450
>>104447
You know, I'd actually be ready to get rid of the Gaang flashbacks and that subplot, if only that gave the show more time to develop the new Team Avatar and make them more likable to the audience. Hell, I'd even be ready to get rid of Lin, Tenzin, and all of our links to the old Gaang. I like these characters a lot, but if writing them out of the show would allow more room for developing Korra and her friends better, I would be okay with it.

And yeah, there is only a limited amount of time, which is why irrelevant bullshit needs to be cut. And pro-bending counts as that in my opinion, since Mako and Bolin could very easily be introduced through some alternate means. Love triangle was a pretty bad idea as well. IMO it would be better if the series had more focus on the bender vs. non-bender conflict.
>> No. 104451
>>104447
Um I like this show but I've gotta say, the pacing is like a traffic jam at times. There is way too much they are trying/ had to put in a 12 episode series. Of course, I often feel this way about 12 series in general.
>> No. 104453
Echoing all the sentiments about Pro Bending and the need for more worldbuilding. Even as early as episode 4 it nothing but a spectacle to showcase fancy animation and the time would've been better served showing exactly how nonbenders were oppressed by benders because until episode 8 the Equalists' cause was basically a case of Informed Oppression.

Hell, just trading one episode's worth of Pro Bending for other stuff would've been a massive improvement.
>> No. 104454
>>104450
It's been mentioned before but Korra's relationship with Tenzin and Lin is a lot stronger at the moment than the one that she has with the bending bros.

Not only that, they offer a lot to Korra in way of reigning in her impulsive and reckless sort of ways. Truthfully Tenzin and Lin could probably be combined into one character to uphold the uptight, by-the-book foil to Korra, but as it is that sort of character offers a lot more opportunities for Korra's development than the love affairs between the bending bros with their lackluster personalities and actual affect on Korra's character.

Dropping Mako and Bolin for Tenzin and Lin would make a lot more sense.
>> No. 104456
>>104454
Coming back to this thought, one of the main complaints so far is the lack of development these characters are getting so far. With only twelve episodes, a cast of six (the 4 kids + Tenzin + Lin) is difficult to juggle screentime for. Things could actually be streamlined and better focused if some of the characters were combined.

Not taking into account personality or anything, simply from the perspective of what roles a character could play and the sort of dynamic they would have with Korra, Team Avatar could be comprised of four people. Mako and Bolin could be combined into one rapscallion bender, Tenzin and Lin could be smushed into one strong authority figure and then Asami would keep her role. Korra has the character dynamics necessary to reflect the world of Republic City and the characters themselves will have more time to not only better develop themselves but the part of Republic City they represent.
>> No. 104458
>>104442
>completely rewrite Asami's character and all of her actions. My suggestion? Make her a rich, snooty bitch.
A female character has no flaws and your solution is to make them into the stereotypical Mean Girls bitch. Seriously? I liked some of your other suggestions, but this is just retarded.

How about establishing Asami as a peaceful Equalist protester? In terms of flaws, she could be a bit overzealous and oversensitive, but at her core a very moral person. In fact, Asami could be the protester in the park in episode one, who is initially at odds with Korra, but is disillusioned by Amon's terror tactics and ends up joining Korra's side. The question of her loyalties and general apprehension of benders (they did kill her mother...) would provide more than enough room for a strong character arc.
>> No. 104459
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104459
This whole thread.
>> No. 104462
>>104456
I like this idea a lot. I agree with the earlier post that Tenzin and Lin have a very interesting dynamic with Korra, and it would be a shame to lose them in favor of teenage drama.

I probably wouldn't want Tenzin and Lin smushed together since both of them are interesting in different ways. Lin is stern, serious and antagonistic, but eventually warms up to Korra; meanwhile, Tenzin tries to act serious, but always gets stuck in comedic situations and struggles to appear dignified. But as for Mako, Bolin, Asami? Yeah, eliminate at least one of them to allow more screentime and character development for the rest.

I love it when antagonists end up switching their side, and that's the main reason why I'm fond of Lin and the way she grows to care for Korra. I really want the Krew have a former rival/enemy/antagonist in its ranks. As much as I hate it, maybe Lin could be replaced by Tahno, for instance? After his de-bending, there would be room for some nice character development for him. The cast might get a chance to discuss bender vs. non-bender stuff more when Tahno's presence keeps being a reminder of that conflict.
So the Krew could be:

-Korra (the hero)
-Makobolin (love interest; bending brothers mashed together into one guy)
-Tenzin (the mentor figure)
-Tahno (formerly bad guy who gets reformed)
-Asami (Korra's rival or gal pal; which one would be a better charactization? How to make her character more interesting, and how to make sure a love triangle would not fuck up the characters too much?)
>> No. 104464
Honestly, Mako and Bolin don't need to be smushed together. Take Mako out of the equation and nothing of value will be lost.
>> No. 104465
>>104464
Between being a jerk and indecisive, I can't pick out many traits from Mako, so yeah, I'd kinda agree.
>> No. 104467
Hasn't Tahno gotten his mini-arc already? Fangirls for draco malfoy characters aside, I see no reason to bring him back/make him stick around any longer. He served his purpose well like good minor characters do.
>> No. 104469
>>104458
Yeah, rewriting Asami was the hardest part because there's not much to work with, and I just wrote the first thing that came into my mind on a moment's notice. Her character design makes me think of the rich bitch stereotype, so that's where I went for even though I realised it's really cliched and dumb. I just wanted anything else than the current characterization.

I like your idea. It keeps the core of Asami's personality intact but gives her some more conflict and edge. It introduces the character more quickly which is good; we've only got limited time after all. I also like how inserting her into that scene would allow her to get a terrible first impression of Korra and give her a good reason to dislike her. It would also make Korra get long-spanning consequences for using such stupid comebacks in that scene. It's nice when characters act in a stupid fashion and it bites them in the butt.
Also, switching sides is good, and I want that happening in Legend of Korra.
>> No. 104471
I think the show is great. I just think they should have gotten rid of the Korra/Mako/Asami thing. Or at least have Mako stick with Asami and just keep it that way. Just because Korra's the main character, doesn't mean she has to end up with the guy she likes. I also agree about removing Pema's advice. Horrible advice.
>> No. 104474
>>104458
I got to thinking how Korra would convince Asami (the protester) to help Korra get to the Revelation meeting especially if Bolin/Malin gets kidnapped by Amon when he has an association with the Triads. That sort of connection would be poisonous to any relationship Korra would have with Asami, no matter how bad Asami finds Amon to be. It'd simply be unforgivable.

Then I got to thinking if we still had the separate bending bros and only Mako was involved in the Triad business. Bolin would be doing his parlor tricks with Pabu on the streets and not only that, he'd be doing it in the park, right across from where Asami holds her rallies.

This scenario would accomplish two critical things. It reinforces the idea of Mako's protective nature over Bolin (a supposed character trait that we haven't really seen in the show proper), he doesn't want his little brother getting into any dirty business and is willing to go so far as to be one of the actual enforcers in the Triads to protect Bolin.

It'll also allow room for additional perspective to Asami's Equalist views. Even if Amon doesn't necessarily kill his victims which Asami should state proudly, he certainly doesn't let them walk free. As someone Asami would see everyday (probably not even using bending), to learn that an innocent like Bolin would not only lose his bending, but end up imprisoned simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, she might wake up to realize that Amon's system isn't really fair(equal) at all.

Some additional merits to this new approach would be revealing the cracks in the bending bro's relationship ("Just stay here and do your tricks, Bolin! I'll handle everything, okay?") with Shady Shin playing on Bolin's subtle resentment for constantly being treated like a child ("You gonna play with your weasel all day or do some real work like your brother?").

The subsequent reunion with the bros would provide some airing out of emotions and a more equal relationship as two men rather than a big bro/baby bro sort of thing. Or at least take the first step to having a more equal relationship. Also Mako will have the perfect excuse to quit the Triads: they tried to drag his little bro into the underworld with him and that is simply unforgivable.

Plus, if any bender is going to get an Equalist to warm up to them, it'd be Bolin so the Asami/Bolin relationship would be a lot of fun to see even before the part where Bolin is kidnapped and is just doing tricks in the park.
>> No. 104475
> My suggestion? Make her a rich, snooty bitch. She's a pampered beautiful daddy's girl who always gets what she wants, and she's out to have fun, seduce guys and get some dick. She meets Korra, Mako and Bolin in Tarrlok's party. When she realizes that Korra's interested in Mako, she decides to start making moves on Mako even though she doesn't love him; she just wants to make Korra unhappy and show she's the alpha female here. She thinks it would be an amusing accomplishment to steal the avatar's love interest. She starts hanging out with the Krew and keeps saying nasty, snippy stuff to Korra whenever Mako or Bolin isn't around to hear it.

Jesus no. Not only is that an awful trite stereotype I am sick to death of seeing in media--bitchy beautiful man-eater--but that makes Asami matter even less because it means she's only there to be a romantic obstacle we'll know Korra will triumph over the moment she opens her mouth.

Asami isn't just an obstacle in canon; she's a sympathetic non-bender who is unquestionably aligned with the heroes, and can actually fight and do things, unlike Pema--the only other heroic non-bender in the show--who's a minor character currently unable to roundhouse kick dudes in the face. She's also a protagonist with intimate ties to the Equalists. The scene where she chose The Right Thing over her beloved father was awesome, and it wouldn't have had remotely the same impact if she'd been established as an unlikeable ass instead of gentle and kind. The show desperately needs a protagonist with a perspective like hers.

Keep her and cut out the love triangle. Either she goes with Mako and he doesn't stray while Korra goes with Bolin/doesn't get romantically attached to anyone at all, or Korra goes with Mako and Asami is a platonic friend to both of them. In the latter if for some reason we need ~romantic problems~--have Asami be Korra's closest companion so she is not sitting on the periphery of the group, and make Makorra clear from the start, but have them wander around in confusion about it since neither of them know how to proceed. Korra hasn't had real friends or a romantic relationship before so she doesn't know how to handle confessing to Mako or how to interpret Asami's friendship with him, and she fears--without real reason--that he'll develop feelings for Asami. Part of their romantic arc is Korra overcoming her stupid jealousy problems without damaging her friendship with Asami and learning to trust Mako. Asami is completely unchanged; the only difference is that she joins the group after accidentally running into Korra on her bike, and Hiroshi laments that his daughter is traipsing around with the Avatar of all people, and the Avatar's ex-triad cronies.

She still invites the brothers to stay with her at the mansion after the bending arena is destroyed and Mako is still the one to comfort her after she rejects her dad; Korra doesn't because she isn't good at this sort of thing and doesn't know what to say or do, while he understands what it's like to lose family and despite his attempts to seem stoic he cares deeply about his friends. It sends up a mistaken red flag to Korra but after everything Asami just went through she feels like maybe she should just let it happen. I really liked that scene in canon, I think it could still work really well for character development in a slightly different context. This version also fixes a major problem with Mako's situation, in that I think the writers intended him to be a character who wears a cool, collected mask to hide the fact that he cares a lot about everybody, but it doesn't come across as selfless when the only people he ever interacts with are love interests and his brother. If he was only involved with one girl and the other was obviously just his platonic friend, but he treated them both equally, this trait would be a lot more endearing. It's not so much that he's "written wrong" but that, because of how the cast is set up, there isn't an opportunity to showcase that facet properly. He might get that friend in season 2 but I think it would have been better to establish a relationship like that right off the bat because people have already formed opinions on him and they're not the right ones.
>> No. 104476
Also honestly Tahno joining Korra's close group of friends is a dumbass idea. I'm not opposed to him making occasional reappearances, maybe to redeem himself, but a full-fledged team member? No.
>> No. 104480
Wow... did you seriously make an "i dont like the way the creators told their own story. I think i can do better" thread

Just wow... ok yeah they could have spent more effort connecting the dots but shit happens when you're on a deadline. To sit here n try to put your own oc fantasy b.s. in is just retarded.
>> No. 104481
>>104442

Hey, other anon. Just wanted to drop in and say that your notes look pretty good and I hope you go ahead and do something with them. I kind of wish I had contact info for you, so I could chat with you about this stuff someplace other than here.
>> No. 104485
>>104475
I like your ideas too. As I said earlier, the "rich bitch" Asami was really quickly thought-up and steoreotypical thing, and it's better if we're able to work with an Asami that actually sticks close to the series' characterization. I tried to think of a way to fit Asami as well as love triangle involvement, and the first obvious way seemed to be to show that Asami's somewhat nasty and doesn't fit together with Mako.

I actually kind of like Asami; it's nice and surprising to have this beautiful woman who looks like she's gonna be a femme fatale, but it turns out that she's ridiculously nice, gentle and kind-hearted. Unfortunately, while she'd probably be a really neat person to have as an IRL friend, her submissive niceness makes her kind of boring as a fictional character. But it's still upsetting and unfair that the love triangle will probably really hurt her; she doesn't deserve it.

I'm okay with Asami being around but not involved in love triangle shenanigans. It's probably the best solution. And I like your idea that Asami's connection to the Krew is that she runs her bike into Korra instead of Mako; it's nice to get some female friends for Korra.

>>104476
I'd mostly want Tahno around because he was de-bended. Every time that we've had some character losing their bending, they've been tossed away from the story and they've become irrelevant to the plot. I'd really want to keep one of these people around so that we can see more of how their loss of bending affects them as people. Do they still accidentally try to use bending forms before remembering they can't? Is losing your bending so major that it affects your soul? Some insight into the thoughts and feelings of de-bended people?
All the other folks who lost their bending are nameless triad guys or metalbender cops who didn't really have any interaction with Korra, so that's why I'd kinda like to see Korra interacting more with de-bended Tahno. Or maybe Bolin could've lost his bending back during the kidnapping, and he has to deal with it during the rest of the series.
>> No. 104486
>>104481
Sorry, most likely I won't be doing anything with this stuff. I just wanted to share my thoughts and hear what kinds of ideas you people can brainstorm. I thought that instead of coming up with theories and speculations about upcoming episodes and then feeling underwhelmed when the next episode airs and interesting plotpoints get rushed, it might be nice to look back at previous episodes and discuss about their writing.

Anyway, I'm a fan artist but I don't have enough self-confidence with my writing to create fanfics. So no, I won't be writing an AU based on this thread. The only fanfic-related thing I might be capable of doing is being a beta reader... but even then, I'm really picky about which fanfics I bother to read. But if you still want my contact info to talk about anything, here you go.
>> No. 104487
>>104480
I've heard the "WELL WHY DON'T YOU DO BETTER!?" accusation leveled before about loads of works, and frankly it's bullshit. This anon took that idea to task, and made some suggestions about how the plot could've been better done. He wouldn't be taking the effort to do something like that if he weren't at least somewhat of a fan. It's like theorizing, but on a grander scale. It's an exercise I can appreciate at the very least.

Overall, I like the way the show's gone. The writing hasn't always been incredible, but generally I've liked how things develop and I love the show. OP, you have some interesting ideas, and it'd be fucking AWESOME if we could see the show re-done with a lot of those changes for comparison's sake. That said, I hate what you do with Asami. While you could argue she seems "too perfect", it's kinda boring/cliche to have her as the snooty rich girl. The way the show disarms that is endearing, and it's allowed me to forgive how her character isn't always the best-written/developed.
>> No. 104490
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104490
>>104485

>I'd mostly want Tahno around because he was de-bended. Every time that we've had some character losing their bending, they've been tossed away from the story and they've become irrelevant to the plot. I'd really want to keep one of these people around so that we can see more of how their loss of bending affects them as people. Do they still accidentally try to use bending forms before remembering they can't? Is losing your bending so major that it affects your soul? Some insight into the thoughts and feelings of de-bended people?
I'd say what we got in episode seven with the Tahno scene was enough and addressed that. Even Zolt was openly weeping on stage after his turn, btw. I feel lke there's no need for more exposition/mourning scenes about de-bended people.
>> No. 104492
Some ideas are interesting, but I think we would be better served waiting for the finale, first. Can you imagine trying to judge season 3 if you didn't see Southern Raider or the Sozin's Comet finale? You'd stand the risk of saying Katara wasn't getting any development regarding her distrust of Zuko, no mention of the Avatar State or how Azula was doing after losing her friends. As well you wouldn't be able to say anything about the Lionturtle/Energybending or how you felt that should have been handled. I say we wait. I dislike how the romance is making our Krew act, and some dialogue felt too simple/forced, but I like the show overall, so I'm withholding judgement.
>> No. 104497
I'd shuffle things about a bit. I think there's a bit of a problem with some characters getting more time than others or being stuck in bland interactions that do their development no favors.

The first of the Krew that Korra meets is Asami in a rather bizarre and catastrophic way. While being chased by the Metalbending cops, Naga nearly collides with Asami and her moped. Panicked, Korra hastily earthbends to halt the incoming vehicle only to catapult Asami onto her polar bear dog. Seeing that Korra is being pursued by the police, Asami attempts to halt Korra to help the cops and a chaotic, mounted fight ensues atop Naga. Eventually they all end up captured by the Zeppelin, with the two teens locked in the same cell as the cops think that the young Sato heiress was Korra's accomplice. The two talk to pass the time, Korra begrudgingly expressing respect for Asami's fighting skills and Asami being marginally fascinated by Korra's being the Avatar and understanding once her cellmate reveals why she was being pursued. During the course of this exchange they discover they have a mutual love of probending though Korra confesses to never having seen a match. Asami offers to bring her along to see one the following day if she manages to get out of jail. While certain events stay the same, this chance meeting would still have a big impact on the story and relationships among the characters.

The series would stress the odd friendship between the two young women which would serve the narrative due to their conflicting characteristics (Bender vs. Nonbender, Penniless vs. Rich, Abrasive vs. Refined, not to mention the physical aspects) having to find a middle ground, a balance if you will since neither can bring themselves to fully dislike the other. They also, at the start, are burdened with legacies, Korra has to be the Avatar, and Asami is probably studying to succeed her father as CEO of Future Industries.

As to how I'd change Asami's character, I'd try to add a darker undertone to her love of racing cars, bikes and whatnot. Maybe her mother being murdered made her confront her own mortality and she's aiming to get the most out of life while she can, making her friendship with Korra being founded on her personal desire for bigger thrills: an enigmatic and eloquent Roxy Rocket if you will. Other than that, she could be a caring, snarky straight man to Korra's more impulsive self. It's a tried mechanic, but true, and its easier translation would allow more time for the other characters and aspects of the show.

Asami's choice of staying with the Krew over joining her father and the Equalists would be more profound. Rather than being torn between her family and a rather shallow love interest who happens to be a bender,she's conflicted as her (best?) friend is THE Bender and is far from perfect, Korra being something of a brash, destructive meathead (leading credence to her father's claims) while nonetheless being a well-meaning, courageous person.
>> No. 104499
File 13396351447.jpg - (7.25KB , 228x243 , smart.jpg )
104499
>>104497
>> No. 104500
>>104497
That... that is very clever. And it would really change up the Krew dynamic.
>> No. 104501
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104501
>>104497
>> No. 104503
>>104497
I wish they would have done something like this, because it's now that I realize how weak Asami's choice to turn against her father really was.

We'd have to do something about her moped driving skills, though. She runs into Korra and Mako?
>> No. 104505
>>104497

That's a damn good idea.

I like how it adds a common relationship thread that runs through all the major storylines, something which is lacking in canon, where the three major story arcs are a jumble.

Gold star, ma'am/sir.
>> No. 104506
>>104503
>>We'd have to do something about her moped driving skills, though. She runs into Korra and Mako?

In this version of events, Asami could meet Mako in Episode 2 with minimal changes. No moped required.

Korra still sneaks off ATI to see a pro-bending match, but it's a pre-arranged get-together with Asami. She has box seats. Korra wanders backstage, and Asami goes after her, half to not get left behind, half because breaking the rules is kinda fun, and then they get caught by Toza as per canon. Bolin rescues them. Mako and Asami have their Meet Cute, while Korra has hers with pro-bending.
>> No. 104509
The brothers ceased to have a function to the plot after episode 3, so I would've had Bolin get de-bent so Pro-bending stays a spectator sport.
>> No. 104510
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104510
>>104490
Another thing I forgot to mention: how about once Tarrlok starts with his Reich legislation against non-benders, the de-bended people are classified as non-benders and get targeted by the discrimination as well. I'd like to see that kind of situation; de-bended people suddenly understanding equalist arguments and sympathising with them a bit, yet loathing themselves for doing so, because they still hate the equalists and what Amon did to them. That's one reason why I'd like to have Tahno or some other de-bended person around.

And since I mentioned Tarrlok: I think his power grab movements could use a little re-working as well. I liked how he manipulated Korra into the task force and I liked him being a slimy, charismatic prick, but I really disliked the way Korra started ignoring her so-called friends in that episode... she had pressures, sure, but she was doing the same mistake as Hasook. She hadn't been friends with the brothers for too long, and it was a dick move that could've threatened her friendship between them. So, I'd want to write those character actions out.
I thought it would've been nice if Korra had left the task force due to public pressure. Like, news articles with people complaining "benders can move fucking elements, how come we're not allowed to learn defense against them?" and "holy shit they encased my face in ice, I thought I was gonna die".

Tarrlok taking advantage of a very public equalist attack was good, but there should be more focus on him vilifying Lin in the aftermath. In the series Lin resigned herself on her own and due to her own guilty conscience; I would've preferred a little more direct influence by Tarrlok, and Lin actually being forcibly pressured into stepping down.

I also feel that there should be a little more conflict escalation before we get to Tarrlok actually imposing curfew on non-benders and ordering metalbender cops into arresting regular citizens. The scene where Korra almost attacked Tarrlok during the non-bender protest felt kinda off to me, although I did like the bit where the random extra said "you're our avatar, too".
The rest of the council should get more focus when the tensions grow. Why exactly are they going along with Tarrlok's clearly immoral schemes? Let the council members talk, let them say biased things to show that they're corrupted, and make sure to establish a better and more fair ruling establishment in the final episode.

Also, the Korra vs. Tarrlok standoff scene made me wonder. Maybe we could have someone questioning whose command is superior; the avatar's or the council's? Who's got the authority? Nobody voted for Korra and it's pure luck she has her avatar powers. Maybe the avatar is an outdated concept that has no place in the industrialized world? Maybe Korra should stay out of politics and let Republic City sort out its issues on its own? These questions could cause Korra self-doubt and make her try harder with the spiritual side, so she could get some guidance from the Spirit World or previous avatars.
>> No. 104513
I don't think were done with Tarlokk and his taskforce just yet
>> No. 104514
>>104485
>>104490
I'd be interested in having Tahno hypothetically stick around longer within the first season as a sort of case study on what happens to people who have their Bending taken away.

As it stands right now, having one's Bending removed has been framed within Korra's narrative as a Very Bad Thing weighted mostly on the argument that its bad simply because you can't Bend anymore. Yes, in concept it is a scary thought, but what about applied experience? Let's show just how bad having your Bending removed really is in the long term.
In episodes following "The Aftermath" the viewer is treated to short segments featuring Tahno trying to adjust to a new life wherein Bending is impossible for him. Remember, this guy used to be a professional athlete, top of the heap, he had money and women, and he was indeed a powerful Bender though pron to cheating, yes... now that's all gone. His means of livelihood is forever lost to him, and he must seek work elsewhere, though he may in fact have few other practical skills at his disposal due to spending most of his life thus far training for pro-Bending. Over the course of these episodes, we see Tahno fall on harder and harder times: he can't find work, he faces discrimination from the police (re: the events of episode 8), he can't defend himself properly without Bending, his "friends" and groupies avoid now that he's a non-Bender and a non-celebrity. The once proud and high-status Tahno we were introduced to in episode 5 is reduced to a poor, starving beggar, half-freezing to death in the streets of Republic City. Perhaps he also becomes a revenge target by some people he had slighted in the past (bonus points if they're non-Benders, thus demonstrating that both Benders and non-Benders have the capacity to be cruel to others based on prejudices, expanding on the theme presented with Asami's father). Before the finale, he crosses paths again with Korra in his weakened state, sharing his tale and motivating her further to confront Amon.

This could help identify two major things which I feel have been sorely missing from the show.
1. Amon has a point, and Republic City is unfairly stacked towards Benders. They have access to better job opportunities in a general sense and can live safer due to their abilities. True, this is a theme which has cropped up in the show, particularly episode 8, but given that its presented as the core tension within the show, we really ought to be witnessing more of it in action. Rather than being told by Amon or Mr. Sato that there are Bender/non-Bender issues, let's get down on the streets of Republic City and see it! I think this might help with >>104449
point about developing Republic City more too by spending time see how the general populous acts and goes about their business.

2. Tahno's plight demonstrates that while Amon's preaching has a point, his actions are not the way to address the problem. Both Korra and the viewer come to the conclusion that Republic City is indeed flawed in its treatment of non-Benders and this is something that needs to be addressed. However, looking at the shattered mess that is Tahno and the way people treat him, we can also safely say that Amon's methods are still in fact causing individual suffering and ultimately not treating the illness of Republic City effectively. This also gives Korra a good moral high ground to face Amon from and further motivation for her to fight him.
>> No. 104517
>>104449

>>1. Rework or Minimize Pro-Bending

I saw the thread and was just about to post this.

So to put my own 2 cents into a rough script.

Episode 1- Keep mostly as is, but I like the early Korra-Asami meet.
Episode 2- Rather than going off for pro-bending, Korra decides screw Lin, she's going to deal some justice, she'll just be more careful this time. As she's trolling for victims (by feigning helplessness) Bolin comes buy and nearly ruins it as he tries to keep her out of trouble (good for some dialogue comedy) and she meets up with Mako. Mako to Bolin's surprise is actually helpful and agrees to help Korra, talking about how their parents were killed by a criminal firebender. However, at the end it is shown that Mako is pocketing the dough from many of the criminal hideouts, reveal may occur now, may occur later.

3- Near canon, if Korra has found out about what Mako has done, then he begs her to help him as she's the only person he knows, if not just goes to help without saying why.

4. This is actually pretty good, keep though perhaps have tension that Korra's focusing on the equalists. Mako meets Asami by 'saving' her from muggers (later after her fighting skills are revealed she admits she could have fought him off, but she didn't want to make him feel bad). Unlike OP I don't think Asami needs a major rework, her ties to family offer some strong character interaction.

5. This is the major rework area, and the one I'm least confident on, it needs to follow up on the strong end of the previous episode, and have Korra trying to deal with the fear now that she's admitted it. Honestly after the roller coast ride of the previous episode, I think dialing back the tension was the right call, but wrong focus. I would have it be Korra working with various people to trying to figure out what to do, holing up in Air Temple island doesn't work, directly confronting him doesn't work. Have her talk with Tenzin about spirituality, have her go with Bolin to get more experience with the city. Have her visit with Asami, build up Republic city, and maybe give a chance to see some of the tensions.

6. Like canon a major even drags Korra back into the fight, before she's prepared, maybe it's Asami with season tickets to the pro-bending match to cheer her up, maybe something else, either way, it should continue the thread that she doesn't feel ready, but goes anyways.

7. Keep mostly as is, this is good character interaction for Asami.

8,9-10 Less focus on Lin/Tenzin’s infiltration of the Equalists, more on Tarlok’s rise to power, and he doesn’t get caught in this version. Korra doesn’t confront him until nine as the build-up or power is more gradual. While she frees herself in 10, Amon doesn’t managed to take Tarlok himself. Eviler that though can but fun, but it was already done in airbender.

At the same time, in the city Mako, Bolin and Asami have to deal with the fallout of being fugitives from the law (arrested in 9, freed in 10). Asami deals with the poorer sections of town, while events force Mako and Bolin to confront the less ethical uses of their own bending.

11-12 Tarlok, has declared himself emergency head of state, and Amon has gone to all-out war. As the city burn around them, Korra must find a way to stop both of them.

Looking over it, one thing I've noticed I did is cut down on Lin/Tenzin stuff, not really sure if that's good or bad, just observation.
>> No. 104518
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104518
>>104517
>Mako, Bolin and Asami have to deal with the fallout of being fugitives from the law (arrested in 9, freed in 10).
Yeah... that was something that seriously bothered me in the last episode. Lin leaves the police force, says that she works outside the law now, and then she decides to bust the Krew out of the jail without having proper authorization anymore. She completes this task by... um, casually strolling into the police HQ and simply letting everyone out of the jail without any hurry? That's it? No sense of urgency at all, and no indication that she's doing something illegal? And later on in the episode the council, the new chief of police, and even Tarrlok don't give a shit about Lin and Tenzin being accompanied by three people who should currently be in jail?

If we get the Krew stuck in jail and Lin making the decision that it's important to break them out, I would hope for a scene where Lin either bluffs her way into the jail ("I'm done with my little vacation and I'm the damn chief of police again, are you challenging my authority?"), or going all ninja and sneaking in secretly. But then everything explodes in their faces, they get a nice escape/fight scene, and then they're all truly fugitives and underdogs in this whole mess.

The Republic City game stated something about the new chief of police, Saikhan, having great respect for Lin. I'd like to see something done with that bit of information. Maybe Saikhan could be secretly helping Lin and feeding her inside information about Tarrlok, and that's why he seemed to accept Tarrlok so quickly earlier on? He was loyal to Lin and did it for her, and he was never actually on Tarrlok's side? Or maybe Saikhan could be the one to stumble on Lin getting the Krew out of jail, and we get some kind of little sad scene where the two try to appeal to one another but fail, and they're forced to fight even though neither one wants to?
>> No. 104520
>>104485
On one hand, I agree with >>104490 and I think the debending scenes in general were very well done. They show exactly what they need to just by the expressions on the characters' faces, and we don't need more follow-up or exposition on them. Seeing Tahno for a minute or so in the police station was just enough. Bringing him back to join the Krew for good is just pure fanservice and dead weight; four main characters is kind of pushing it for a 12 episode series already and five is definitely over the limit. In other words, I think everything surrounding this is perfect as is and I wouldn't change a thing about it.

On the other I think Bolin losing his bending abilities is a fabulous idea because it opens so many doors. While I don't really agree with people when they say one of the brothers is a superfluous character because he is just another bender with the same background, is Bolin lost his bending we'd hear less complaining about it as the cast would have a bigger range of perspective. The Krew then would consist of:
- the Avatar (obviously)
- a non-bender who is strongly against the Equalists despite having Equalist connections
- a bender who opposes the Equalists but may be able to sympathise with individuals within the Equalists due to his backstory
- a bender who was caught up in Equalist machinations despite never hurting anybody and had his bending taken away before his brother and the Avatar could save him

It puts a very personal spin on stopping the Equalists, especially for Mako, because as the older brother he sees it as his duty to take care of Bolin and protect him. HOWEVER I think Bolin losing it at the Revelation would be bad pacing because it would be too personal too soon--the Revelation was the first time we saw the Equalists as a potential threat and I think it's important for it to escalate a bit before we see them do anything irreparably bad to a major player in order for us to feel adequately angry and horrified by the act. Keeping to canon events closely as possible, it would make the best impact if Bolin was de-bended by Amon at the pro-bending finals along with the Wolfbats, while Korra and Mako managed to escape. There is a minor problem in that it obviously wasn't Amon's intention to go after Korra or her teammates at that point at all. He was only after the Wolfbats. Why would Bolin get caught in it?

>>104497
this is really good and works well with stuff in >>104475

> During the course of this exchange they discover they have a mutual love of probending though Korra confesses to never having seen a match. Asami offers to bring her along to see one the following day if she manages to get out of jail. While certain events stay the same, this chance meeting would still have a big impact on the story and relationships among the characters.

I think this is a really great way to tie the team together very early and very neatly. By "bringing her along" she means sneaking in behind the scenes to watch the match from the Fire Ferrets' box. They're both snooping around the training area when the coach walks in; Asami manages to hide but Korra's spotted, and the scene with Bolin intervening happens as normal. When Toza leaves Asami greets him in a friendly way. Mako comes in and accuses Korra of being another one of Bolin's "crazy fangirls," with a gesture that implies Asami is the crazy one he's talking about--she got her first backstage pass by taking Bolin out for a high speed joyride in her sweet ass car and going off some earthbent ramps. Or something like that. By that tune she'd be established as a daredevil driver early and we'd be fuckin pumped to finally see her in action. And there, bam, strong team dynamics in which everyone has some kind of relationship/opinion of each other within two episodes.
>> No. 104521
>>104520
Nice post, liked it a lot.

>There is a minor problem in that it obviously wasn't Amon's intention to go after Korra or her teammates at that point at all. He was only after the Wolfbats. Why would Bolin get caught in it?
The game simply has to end so that when the timelimit of the last round is up, Korra and Mako have fallen into the water but Bolin still manages to remain on the platform. I assumed Amon wasn't planning on specifically targeting on Wolfbats; just any bender who was standing on the platform when the game ended. Except for Korra, of course... seems he's planned things out in advance when it comes to dealing with her. I'm not sure if he had some kind of plan in mind in case Korra's team managed to win.

Either way, I think that while Amon didn't want to do anything about Korra at that time, he wouldn't mind taking away Bolin's bending if he happened to be there.
>> No. 104522
Is there a particular reason we need pro-bending?
>> No. 104525
>>104522

You would have to change up how Korra starts learning the basics of Airbending otherwise.
>> No. 104527
>>104525
Well, you can still have it in episode 2, where she actually does something related to airbending in the ring. After that, I would proceed with episode 3 and get Bolin de-bent, then drop him, Mako, and pro-bending from the series.
>> No. 104529
>>104527

...I know this is all a thread of opinions, but fuck that, I really like Bolin all things considered and I enjoyed the pro-bending bits.
>> No. 104530
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104530
>>104522
People have recently been saying that "Bryke pulled a George Lucas", meaning that they didn't use enough outsider input in the writing process, and they should've bounced off rough concepts with some other creative minds. Assuming that the comparison to the Star Wars prequels has merit, pro-bending might be the new pod-racing. Activities involving it serve to drive the plot forward, but we get screentime wasted on some fictional sport that people don't really care about. Trying to win a sport event isn't as exciting as seeing the heroes fighting against our main villains; stakes aren't as high. And it's kinda upsetting how the pro-bending rules appear to be more fleshed out than the characterization of our protagonists... and then those rules aren't even properly explained inside the actual series, and everyone in the audience was like "wait, what happened? oh they won the match? okay".

Besides, I'm not a fan of how nerfed pro-bending is. The concept art looked flashy, but the actual series shows none of that. The rules of the game are so strict that it severely limits the bending. We won't get the kind of creative, impressive attacks we got in Earth Rumble. I don't find pro-bending very interesting to watch. It's a shame bending can't be used up to all of its potential.

Still, I think pro-bending can be alright if used with caution and if ensured it doesn't waste too much time. Tenzin initially disapproved of the sport and thought it was a mockery of bending, but then he saw it was good for Korra, and he even got caught up in the moment and cheered at the arena like an excited fanboy. He grew to accept the sport despite initially disliking it. I really liked that development and I would like to keep it. More importantly, the arena was the location of Amon's public attack. I think it'd be nice to keep pro-bending around in some way or another mainly so we can also keep the arena attack. And pro-bending setting could still be a nice common ground for everyone to get to know one another. Mako and Bolin could still be introduced via pro-bending, whereas Korra and Asami could bond more quickly due to the fact that they both enjoy the sport. I'm loving the idea of making Korra and Asami kinda like BFFs; having a friend like that is one of the most awesome things in the world, and creating a female bromance into the show would be nice.

Also, I'd like to make it more obvious that while the characters initially bond over pro-bending, they quickly grow attached to one another due to other factors as well. There should be some more screentime that's shared outside of the arena; the Krew hanging out together simply because they want to. In the series, it seemed like pro-bending was the only thing linking Korra to the bending brothers. Their friendship hasn't seemed very close, and it's been strained by all the romantic tension, too.
>> No. 104531
Some great ideas here, guys.

I especially like:
>Tarrlok not being removed as a threat due to plot convenience
I think it's very important to show that there are two opposing forces in Republic City and that neither is completely wrong. It also adds a lot of tension. I wouldn't even have him reveal his ulterior motives as much.
I would have stressed Tarrlok's paranoia and his fanatism. He'd rather burn Republic City to the ground before he leaves it to the Equalists.
And the series has never dealt with villains that are actually working within legal bounds and at least theoretically on the same side as the hero.

>Mako/Bolin or Mako & Bolin having different jobs
The whole poor streetrats thing is really undermined by the famous, professional athlete image. Why would they lack for money? Why wouldn't they have a sponsor already, if they are shown to having quite a lot of fans from the very beginning?
If they are grifters/ low-level hoodlums it makes much more sense. We can show that not everything is right with the city and give the fellows some much needed depth, since now they're not completely white hats. I do agree though, that having Bolin as a full blown mobster isn't too good an idea, since Korra needs to mobilize support to get him back. He can't actually deserve what Amon has in store for him.

Therefore I'd make him a pick-pocket/grifter. It fits his personality. He's aimable, fast-talking but a terrible liar when he gets nervous. So he's not very good at his job. He might try to screw Korra/Asami out of some yuons. That would obviously end in a catastrophe and he'll apologize profusely. Thus friendship.
Mako is a mob-enforcer. That way it makes sense for him to be cold on the outside and try to keep his distance from Korra in the beginning. Since his brother often works in the Triple Threats territory and interferes with their operation, Mako's ties to the underworld are the only thing keeping Bo safe and he constantly has to mend his screw-ups. That way we can also establish the Mama Mako thing, which in all honesty was the best thing about his character.
In making Mako a "honorable" criminal, he'd earn some edge/be more complicated. It makes sense for his relationships to be a mess, since his life is now actually complicated. He also now has more of a stake in the conflict. When the Tripple Threat is dismantled by the Equalists, he loses the entire existence he built for himself and his brother (unlike just losing a place to stay like when Amon blew up the Arena after the finals).
>I don't support the idea of Tenzin and Lin being combined, though.
The characters interaction with the Police/Council is quite interesting. And both provide resources that Korra needs to advance the story. With Tenzin, Korra has an immediate handle on the political climate in Republic City. With Lin she has infrastructure and support against the Equalists in the beginning. That way, it makes the situation all the more dire when Tarrlok takes the Police Force from her. Which he really should. Just quitting made no real sense in the context of the show and with Lin's character, since basically nothing changed for her, as pointed out earlier. And it makes Tarrlok look much more of an asshole if he actually forces Lin out of the job.
>> No. 104532
>>104531
>When the Tripple Threat is dismantled by the Equalists
That reminds me, how much authority did Lightning Bolt Zolt have among his men? With his bending gone, he wouldn't be able to physically fight back against some backstabbing usurper anymore. So, did his men respect him too much to even think of challenging him? Did he continue leading the triad and maybe planning on a revenge against the equalists? Or did one of Zolt's men make his move at the opportunity and become the new mob boss? Or were all the leading figures of the TTT taken out by Amon, and did the whole triad disintegrate in lack of any people capable of filling the power vacuum? What happens if the whole triad is in a complete chaos due to losing its leaders? Did the other triads take advantage of it and start a gangwar to conquer all the Triple Threat Triad territory? Did Amon accidentally make the situation worse, and are non-benders now even more unsafe than ever? Could this be something that Tarrlok could also butt in on, to enforce more totalitarianism and control over the city?

Also, when we met Skoochy, he said this line:

>Shady Shin showed up and flashed some serious cash. Bo took off with him in his hot rod. The Triple Threats? The Red Monsoons? The Agni Kais? All the triads are muscling up for something real big.

What was that about anyway? All the triads were preparing for something big... what exactly? They weren't co-operating with equalists, right? The equalist speeches are the only major thing I can think of happening around that time. Was the criminal underworld aware of those in advance? Were they co-operating with the equalists and is that how they knew? Or were they opposed to the equalists and planning to get this new force out of their turf? Or were the preparations about some other, completely unrelated triad matters?
>> No. 104536
>>104532
That's a lot to think about and I agree that the Triads would probably make for a more interesting subplot than Probending, but I think we don't have the time for that.
I'd explain it this way:
-It might have been some sort of meeting of the Capos, which Amon crashed.
-Shady Shin took Bolin along, who jumped at the chance of finally becoming a full member of the TTT like his bro (although Mako tried to keep him out of that world as much as possible).
-after Amon takes the bosses bending, the family falls apart, since it relied heavily on intimidation and respect, which they enforced through bending. I'd show Zolt again once, basically a broken man. He tells Mako that the reminder of the TTT is disbanded and laying low until the Equalists are dealt with.
-I'd bring Tarrlok in here too. He'd tell Lin, that she is under no circumstances to let out that the Equalists are really destroying organized crime in the city, as not to give them more support.

But that's where I'd end the Triad subplot. Maybe it can come up occasionally in relation to Mako. People may still owe him favours/have lingering resentment towards him... That'd be nice.

Especially if Chief Bei Fong is already familiar with Mako and Bolin.
>Chief, this is Mako.
>We've had the pleasure. I've kept a cell free just for you, creep.
>I have no intention of going back there. We're on the same side.
>For now. Pity, you'd look good behind bars.
>Eh hehehe. Anyway, this is his brother. Bolin.
>Wait a minute... Weren't you the one peddling faux "Spirit Water" in front of the arena?!
>Oh noNonNonOno. I just have one of those faces. Happens to me all the time
>> No. 104539
>>104536
I like this. In this "bending brothers are still hoodlums" universe, Lin having an established dislike for the brothers would make it more meaningful when she decides to break them out. It would also be nice to see her respecting Korra's judgement and accepting her word that the brothers are loyal and important friends. Lin's grown to have faith in Korra, and she'll make an attempt to trust the brothers as well, for Korra's sake.

Late in the series, Lin actually decides to ditch the law and everything she's worked for her whole life; she breaks the brothers out of the jail so they can be of help to Korra. She must have a damn good reason for doing this, and she must believe that the brothers are so vital that they need to be let out right freaking now. Because of this, I'd like to fit in a bunch of small character moments and interaction between Lin and the brothers way before they get imprisoned. The snarky exchange you posted was good and there could be more stuff like that, as well as fight scenes showing that Mako and Bolin are competent benders and good allies in a combat situation. There should be scenes that let the characters learn to trust one another.
I'd also like more implication that Tarrlok's not planning to let the Krew out of the jail at all; implication that going through correct procedures to get them out is an impossible task because the system is too corrupted. Lin breaking them out and becoming a fugitive is the only way, and she's ready to do that personal sacrifice for Korra and the Krew.

I like your idea that the triad aftermath gets mentioned but wouldn't get much deeper focus than that. We'd get to see some more reactions to de-bending which is a nice little aside, but concentrating on our protagonists is the most important thing.
>> No. 104542
>>"bending brothers are still hoodlums"

This adds an interesting tension to the Asami/Mako relationship. Her mother got killed by a gangster, and now she ends up attracted to one. When she learns the truth about his job, she's initially disgusted, but then starts having mixed feelings when Mako talks about needing to provide for Bolin, and how there's no easy outs with Zolt. My only concern is that if Mako is an out-and-out gangster, why do Korra and Asami stick around with him? Friendship alone? I could see Korra doing that, as she's pretty blithe about rules in general, but Asami is a Proper Young Lady.

Maybe Bolin could work in that phonograph shop from the first episode?

>>Re: pro-bending

As a twist on an idea mentioned earlier, of the brothers working security at the arena, what about TTT Enforcer Mako doing the same? Pro-bending in canon is already sort of shady, what with the way the athletes lose their paycheck to annual fees (gym times, groceries, rent, etc.) and how the Wolfbats rig the final. So when Korra and Asami go to the match in Episode 2, they run into "team captain" Mako in the back and tag-along Bolin.

Hasook in this scenario would be a disgruntled jobber fed up with being ordered by management to take dives.
>> No. 104545
>>104539
>>104542
It'd be fun if Mako actually talked like a criminal then occasionally
>Hey Lady, scram. We're trying to conduct business here.

>Who is this crazy broad?

>Hey copper, watch the hair.

Stuff like that. Could be his public personality or just something he picked up over time.
As to why Asami and Mko hit it off:
I'm thinking he should come clean as early as possible about the matter or Asami should know from the beginning. He'd have to do something brave and selfless to earn her respect before she falls for him. Then she could make it her personal project to pull him out of the crimescene. Perhaps by making Hiroshi give him a proper job, that earns more than minimum wage.
Maybe a reverse My fair Lady set-up would be fun too. I always felt that Mako was way to comfortable with the uppercrust, for someone who spend all his life in poverty. He took far too natural to all the luxery.

I still like the idea of Bolin and Pabu being little crooks but basically so harmless, that even Bei Fong just sighs and let's them off with a smack up the back of the head and a warning.
>> No. 104546
>>104542
>My only concern is that if Mako is an out-and-out gangster, why do Korra and Asami stick around with him? Friendship alone? I could see Korra doing that, as she's pretty blithe about rules in general, but Asami is a Proper Young Lady.

I think things could work out like this:

Asami is Korra's first friend in Republic City and they're just hanging out in the city together for fun. Then they encounter the pickpocket/conman version of Bolin, and he attempts to scam them in some way or another. Problem is, one of his targets is the rich girl with connections and martial arts practice, while the other girl is the freaking avatar. So whoops; he picked the wrong targets and he's way out of his league. Besides, he doesn't want to use his bending against anyone in self-defense, and Korra and Asami are so pretty that he feels guilty about trying to scam them anyway. Initially the girls are pissed off, but Bolin tries to talk himself out of the trouble and manages to be so nervous, unthreatening, and awkwardly endearing that they're not mad at him for long. The three talk a little bit, and Korra discovers that Bolin's actually a really kind young man who's stuck in a shitty life situation. He's homeless and moneyless, and that's why he's forced to do illegal stuff. This disillusions Korra to the city and makes her realize that not everyone is doing well here. She gets determined that it's her duty as the avatar to help the citizens of RC.

Bolin takes the girls to meet Mako. Mako's being distant and secretive because of the whole "working for triads" thing, but Korra falls in love with him instantly anyway. Later on she finds out about Mako and the triads and it comes as a shock, but at that point she already has feelings for Mako, and she manages to find a way to forgive him.
As for why Asami would forgive Mako's actions: she would get seriously pissed off when she finds out about the triads, and she'd also be upset when Korra forgives Mako. But when she finds out that the brothers were orphaned by a bender, she feels pity for Mako and goes talk with him privately. They manage to establish a truce due to the fact that they both feel the same kind of pain of loss and grudge, and they can sympathise with one another. They share their thoughts and feelings on the issue. It's a discussion that makes them into friends, but Asami still has too much grudge to ever think about him in a romantic sense. (Maybe Asami's mother could've been killed by the triads instead of any random bender, so that things are even more personally offensive to her and it'll be absolutely certain there can be no romantic tension between her and Mako?)

Meanwhile, Korra might notice Korra and Mako talking about their issues in hushed voices. She makes the assumption that it's flirty talk and Asami's interested in Mako in a romantic sense. She feels saddened about it, but decides she can't go pursuing Mako now, because she doesn't want to sabotage her friendship with Asami. Sisters before misters, and she wants her beloved to be happy anyway. - The misunderstanding shouldn't last for too long; maybe one or two episodes at the very maximum, but not for any longer. Too long and too personal conflicts can hurt the team dynamics.

----

By the way, it seems mostly everyone thinks it'd be best if Asami's primary purpose were to be Korra's best friend, and her first new friend in the city? I was thinking about the moment when the two would meet and how the pacing of the episode should go. How about this:

We get "I'm the avatar, you gotta deal with it!" to get an establishing character moment for Korra and show that she's headstrong, reckless, impatient, and she thinks with her fists. Then we get a quick montage of her growing up and learning bending. Then the episode skips to Korra saying byebye to her parents and leaving for Republic City with Katara accompanying her. The dialogue establishes that Korra's mastered all the other elements but she's still struggling with spiritual stuff, and the White Lotus Society agrees it'd be best to get her under Tenzin's tutelage; he's the man whose help is needed right now, and it's time for Korra to learn air anyway.

Korra meets Tenzin and his family. She's excited to start training so she could finally create tornadoes and whirlwinds. Tenzin says she should just settle down for now and they'll start tomorrow, but Korra's being impatient. Tenzin finally tires out and says that Korra can sit down and meditate in order to get a nice good start into airbending. But she thinks that's lame, and she decides that if she can't do any cool bending today, she'll just go see the big, awesome, exciting city.

Then she gets into trouble with the protesters and triads, stumbles onto Asami, they get caught by the cops, and the two girls get to talk about all kinds of stuff in the cell. Finally Tenzin comes to pick Korra from Lin. Korra gets admonished by both Tenzin and Lin, and she feels really ashamed acting in such a stupid fashion. But as she walks out of the police station all miserable, Asami's there to wave her bye; at least Korra made a new friend, and they arrange to meet up again tomorrow.

So what's the purpose of my rewrite of episode 1? To remove some scenes so we can fit a good Asami/Korra introduction into the 20 minutes we've got. I figured we could take out the scenes where White Lotus are being cranky old pricks. I didn't think there was a need to make them look bad and have Korra feel like "nobody understand my teenager problems and my need for freedom". If we have to establish that White Lotus are being controlling and overprotective about Korra, it should be made relevant somehow. I assume that Aang always felt guilty about the way he escaped from the Temple; his action allowed the world to get devastated by the war while he was stuck in ice. And maybe Aang realised afterwards that he was forced to deal with horrible responsibilities when he wasn't even out of puberty yet. I'm thinking that because of these reasons, he asked the White Lotus to keep an eye on the next avatar and make sure Korra will never have to go unprepared against any threat. That's why I assume the White Lotus made that compound for her.
But yeah, White Lotus' justifications for their actions weren't explained in-series, the episode made them look somewhat bad, and it hasn't had relevance later on anyway. I'd just take out the scenes with White Lotus being unsympathetic, so we can make room for Korra/Asami.
>> No. 104548
>>104546
>Korra might notice Korra and Mako talking about their issues
typo; meant Asami and Mako, of course.
>> No. 104567
Mock Episode Guide. Since I don't know how the last episodes will shake out, I refrained from writing about them. I tried to keep to the general trend of canon, except incorporating a lot of the suggestions up-thread.

* Mako and Bolin still live in the arena, they just aren't pro-benders. It's more that Mako is the on-site guy when it comes to seeing the pro-bending matches go according to the script. He's basically Zolt's #1 Guy at the arena. So he's more middle management than enforcer thug.


Ep. 01: WELCOME TO REPUBLIC CITY -- Seventy years have passed since Avatar Aang defeated Firelord Ozai and saved the world. Now, his successor, Korra, is training to be the new Avatar. Her studies take her to Republic City, where Aang's son Tenzin lives, but Korra soon finds herself in over her head -- as does the friend she makes.

Ep. 02: A LEAF IN THE WIND -- Eager to unwind from their studies, Korra and Asami sneak out to watch a pro-bending tournament. But a run-in with a pickpocket leads the girls to discover the darker side of their favorite sport. Meanwhile, Mako deals with a crisis as a player named Hasook throws out his script.

Ep. 03: THE REVELATION -- After the Equalists unleash an all-out attack on the Triple Threat Triad HQ, Bolin seeks out the Avatar's help in rescuing his brother. What both of them find is more than they ever expected. At Future Industries, Asami faces a dilemma after her father orders her to hire workers for a new plant.

Ep. 04: THE VOICE IN THE NIGHT -- A special task force is created to handle Amon's revelation, and Korra finds herself roped into joining it. Mako searches for a new job as a citywide Triad-Equalist gang war brews; Asami makes him an offer that he can't refuse.

Ep. 05: THE SPIRIT OF COMPETITION -- Against the backdrop of the pro-bending championship tournament, Korra's friendships are threatened after romantic rivalries shake up her world. Tenzin and Hiroshi learn about the brothers' troubled past. Pema advises Asami on dating benders. (Note: They're not a pro-bending team here, so the backdrop is more of a pub crawl slash friendly get-together.)

Ep. 06: AND THE WINNER IS... -- Amon's threat against the championship's finale brings out Republic City's finest in force, but they have more than Equalists to worry about after Mako recognizes plenty of old co-workers and rivals in the stands.

Ep. 07: THE AFTERMATH -- Following the disastrous three-way brawl between the Equalists, Triads, and police at the arena, Lin is fired from her post as commissioner. That does not stop her from investigating Amon alongside Korra, however. Asami is holed up at her family estate as a violent gang war rocks Republic City, but newly homeless Mako and Bolin temporarily move in with her as a sign of thanks from Hiroshi for defending them at the arena. But is there more to Mister Sato than meets the eye?

Ep. 08: WHEN EXTREMES MEET -- Korra's efforts as Avatar are frustrated by Councilman Tarrlok, who gets emergency powers authorized to quell the violence in Republic City. Korra's friends are arrested for their past association with the Triads and the Equalists, but the new laws prove popular with the general public. But as the police shift their focus exclusively to non-benders, Tarrlok's true colors come to light.

Ep. 09: OUT OF THE PAST -- In the aftermath of last episode's break-out, Lin, Mako, Bolin, and Asami are on the run from the law. Asami sees how the other half lives. Lin and the brothers warily agree to set aside their differences and combine their resources to find the missing Avatar. Meanwhile, in Tarrlok's cabin, Korra mediates on visions from her past life.
>> No. 104573
My idea for Bolin is that he gathers crowds of people around himself as some sort of Snake-oil Salesman or with bending tricks. Meanwhile Pabu is trained to snatch purses from the distracted crowd.

Korra notices the ferret on Asami and manages to grab it.
Bolin's immediately like:
>NOOOOO! My baby!
and the jig is up. Maybe it devolves into a short chase sequence, but at the end of it they've got Bolin trapped in a corner and he apologizes & hands over the stolen goods.

When the other victims still want to beat him to a pulp, Korra actually steps up for him. So Bolin is indepted to her and leads them back to the arena, where Mako grudingly hands over Season Tickets for both Asami and Korra.
The legality of Mako's "employment" is called into question when Hasook makes a scene within earshot of Korra and Asami.
>> No. 104610
Are you guys going to write a fanfic or what? Get going.
>> No. 104638
Wow... after all this long winded oc b.s. this is the best you've come up with?

I might be more impressed if you could create your own characters/world/events.

here's an idea write your own damn show/comic n quit shitting on other peoples work.
>> No. 104654
>>104638
>here's an idea write your own damn show/comic
I'm inclined to agree. You're all a real creative lot. Hell, your talents are probably best applied in genuine self project, as opposed to fanwo--

>quit shitting on other peoples work.
And you dun goof'd.
>> No. 104676
>>104638
i don't know why you are getting angry in a thread that is basically a bunch of people talking about an alternate universe fanfiction idea in which asami becomes korra's first and closest companion instead of the bending brothers.

i'm only here because korra is my favourite show on tv, asami is my favourite character and the triad angle this thread has going on is interesting to me and we won't have a chance to explore that in canon

so i don't know where you're getting this "shitting on people's work" from.
>> No. 104681
>>104610
OP here again. It's about certain I'm not gonna write an AU fanfic based on this. I enjoy writing essays and analyzing fiction, but I don't have enough courage to try to do fanfiction. I don't mind if someone decides to grab a bunch of ideas from this thread and do something with them, though. But in case anyone wants to do that, it's probably better to wait until the finale and see how everything turns out. After that we'll have all of our lego blocks around and it's easier to decide how to rearrange them. And who knows; maybe we'll find out something really amazing about Amon, maybe Bryke have some kind of way to make the love triangle drama work, maybe everything will turn out to make perfect sense in hindsight, and maybe we all judged the series way too early.

I love the stuff you guys have been coming up with. This is all just written concepts we've been tossing around and it's not actual episode footage, but I think most of your ideas sound like they could work really nicely on screen.

Also, guys: ignore people who don't like the thread. People sometimes get defensive when their favourite works of fiction are criticized. It's a normal thing to happen and it's okay, but it'll derail threads only if you let it.

In the end no work of fiction can ever be completely perfect, and there's always room for improvement. And this applies especially much to Legend of Korra. I thought there were all these great concepts and ideas, and they got me so excited in the first few episodes. But a lot of their potential gets wasted when interesting subplots go nowhere and the characterization of protagonists has issues. Korra is entertaining enough to watch, but there's all this potential for the series to be so much better.

>>104567
>>104573
Ooh, that episode outline was pretty good, and I like the idea of Pabu assisting this version of Bolin in thievery. We've seen that Bolin's taught Pabu to do little tricks, and using that fact in such a plot-relevant way is clever.
>> No. 104684
>>104610
>>104681
What we might do, I think is write short ficlets that "fix" certain scenes.
I see no sense in doing a transcript of every episode up to the point where people have problems with it and change it.

The point of this AU as far as I can tell:
>Give the characters actual, meaningful relationships, instead of just being means to an end.
>Make the Bending brothers more interesting.
>Cut down on the Probending in favor of Worldbuilding and character interaction.
>Take out most of the plot conveniences or twist them in a way that they're not as obvious.
>Give Tarrlok his due before he's kicked out of the show.
>> No. 104686
>>104684
Also I can understand that people might go:
>>OH THE HUBRIS! YOU DON'T KNOW THE FIRST THING ABOUT WRITING A SHOW! AND YOU WANT TO TELL MIKE AND BRYAN HOW TO DO THEIR JOBS? PATHETIC!

I think LoK is a damn fine show. It's so good, that it's mistakes stand out all the more, which is super-regrettable.
And it's easy to go in after the fact and say:
>Now what they should have done is this! Then it would have been hunky dory.
But that's just how fans are.
I think it's a testament to the impact and quality of the show, that people actually get so worked up about it.
And I can't help but feel that most of our grievances have some legitimacy, since there's a pretty tall number of people going on about them.
If you see all this as some sort of insult to the Bryke-God, then just ignore us. I'm pretty sure that they do.
>> No. 104687
File 133975776749.jpg - (94.28KB , 500x471 , 1327022328697.jpg )
104687
>>104492
I'm a bit late to the reply party, but allow me to rebut: outlining our current impressions here and now will allow us to objectively create a timeline of fan reactions. Serving as a time capsule of commentary, what we post here shows how the plot up til now has been construed by some of the fans.

I'd like to outline a few modifications I'd like to make to the plot so far, but I'll be walking straight out of college in half of a day, and thus am for lack of sleeping pic I guess related.
>> No. 104705
Now here's another thing I'd like to adress.
There need to be some jokes played at the expense of Mako and Asami. Their character types are completely straight in the show. With no sense of fun, really.
It's what alienated me from Mako to begin with. It's like they're the holy cows of the show and above such mundane things. And it sucks a lot of life out of them.

Compare and contrast ATLA.
Everybody got a moment to be goofy or dumb or got a good line in.
Zuko was a total dork when he wasn't brooding,
Katara was highstrung and easily agitated,
Aang was the butt of lots of jokes too,
and everybody took the time to ridicule each others flaws and quirks.
That made for a nice dynamic. People who were fun to watch together.

Why can't LoK do that?
>> No. 104706
File 133977495554.jpg - (68.61KB , 1280x720 , asami face.jpg )
104706
>>104705
Good point. My favourite Mako moment in the series is when he gets completely lovestruck by Asami. It's hilarious when Mr. Too-Cool-to-Give-a-Shit-about-Fangirls sees this beautiful lady and suddenly loses composure. He blushes, forgets his words, gets all nervous, and spawns little pink hearts. It's cute and funny to see Mako's serious demeanor melting away like that.

As for my favourite Asami moment? Uhh, I guess it's the scene where Korra's yelling at Ikki, and Asami has this bewildered expression on her face in the background. Yeah... both her and Mako could use some more moments where they're being funny and endearing.
>> No. 104707
To be fair, there are those moments:
Tenzin getting flustered.
Korra's various silly faces.
Bolin.
The kids.
But those happen to few characters while dumping all of the awkward comedy on Bolin most of the time.
Since Mako has been acting Father Bear-ish towards Korra and Bolin, play it up a bit. ( He is kind of the Katara of this group. Have fun with it.)
Since Asami is a racer, have her freak out over cars and vehicles or snark at how bad they are(I've been watching Top Gear lately ha ha)
>> No. 104708
>>104707
Yeah, all the other major characters in LoK get some nice comedic moments and it's cool; only Mako and Asami kinda lack them.

Emphasizing Asami's love of cars - and playing it for laughs - sounds like good idea. If I remember right, her apparent race car interest has so far been relevant only twice during the series? In the bit where she went like "I'm not just a prissy princess, I'm actually kind of a tomboy", and later on when they decided to go patrol as the new Team Avatar.

I like the idea of Asami geeking out over cars and being excited to rant about them whenever she gets a chance (which might bore or frustrate other characters). And I think using some "Mama Mako" comedy aspect would be nice, too.
>> No. 104709
>>104707
I also like the idea of Asmai bein just a teeny bit prissy, despite not admitting it and getting worked up over people being unnecessarily rude and crude.
Like a scene in a restaurant or something, where Korra and Bolin eat like pigs while Asami barely touches her salad and looks on in disgusted disbelief.
>Hey, aren't you hungry?
>I think I'm never gonna be hungry again.
>> No. 104712
Here's what I think: Asami shouldn't be prissy or that stuck up, but she should have standards. A bit of grime is nothing for a petrol head and blood should be fine for a martial artist. But for someone not used to rat-pigeons or other vermin, or sloppy eating... yeah a bit of disgust is understandable. She's no Toph.
>> No. 104714
The robots. Those robots are like midiclorians to me. Useless pieces of rubble that totally betray the premise of "fantasy martial arts in magical setting".
>> No. 104715
>>104714
Did the tanks in the first series bother you?
>> No. 104717
>>104715
Tanks?

You mean the tanks that FIREBENDERS drove by FIREBENDING?

Why would that bother you?
>> No. 104719
File 133978209256.png - (480.45KB , 720x480 , ep43-1167[1].png )
104719
>>104714
Bitch, please.
>> No. 104724
>>104717
The fuel might come from firebending, though I'm pretty sure the technology for an engine must have already been there.

Come to think of it, did they ever explain the fully functional REFRIGERATOR in the Boiling Rock?
>> No. 104725
>>104719
still not "platinum robots"
>> No. 104732
>>104714
Through the course of AtLA, we got some remarkable new innovations, and technology has been only marching on since then. Looking at the timeline of the real world and how our inventions have advanced, it's IMO very plausible for AtLA world to turn into LoK world in 70 years. And I think it makes a lot of sense that equalists are attempting to find ways to use technology against benders. While I feel indifferent about giant mecha, I'm still alright with them in LoK.

However, from what I understand, platinum is a rare and inconvenient material for robot construction purposes? Or so people said on 4chan. I think someone on /co/ said that they should've instead used metal that doesn't have impurities in it, so that it's impossible to bend? I know absolutely nothing about metallurgy and I don't know if this works or not, but I have no ideas of my own about what would be strong and unbendable construction material.

>>104709
Heh, I like that scene idea. Mako's reaction would probably be just tired resignation... he's lived with Bolin all his life and he's used to his brother's eating habits, but now there are two of them eating like that and challenging one another into burping contests.
>> No. 104736
>>104573
>>104681
So I was thinking this happens when Hasook gets involved:

Him and Mako have a fight, within hearing of Korra but she doesn't catch the part where Hasook's quitting because he won't throw the game. She immediately waltzes in after the guy leaves:
>Mako: Damn Hasook. Without a full team, we're going to have to cancel the game. And all the bets.
>Korra: Hey, I'm a Waterbender. I could, you know-
>Mako: No, I don't think you're the kind we're looking for.
>Korra: Well, I've never actually played, but I heard some games on the radio
>Mako: I said...Wait, you've never even SEEN a Probending match?
>Korra: Nope.
>Mako: You know what? You're in.
>Korra: Really?
>Mako: Sure. Go for it.

Later during the match.
>Bolin: That's not Hasook.
>Mako: Yeah, he was tired of playing an inept amateur. So I got us the real deal.
>Bolin: Is that Korra?
The penality happens.
>Bolin: You know, I already kinda suspected she was the Avatar.
Mako just stands there with his chin on the floor. The refs converse
>Mako: Disqualify her. Disqualify her. Disqualify her. MONKEYFEATHERS!
Korra wins the match.
>Bolin: YAAAAAY. GO TEAM!
Mako glares at him.
>Bolin: I mean.. uh.
Korra walks up to them.
>Mako: You're off the team!
>Korra: Yeeesh, what does it take to get on this guy's good side?
>> No. 104740
I don't like the idea of Mako being a Mob enforcer simply because
1) he helps perpetuate the same violence that took his family and
2) they'll always have a hold over him via Bolin.
That is to say I have nothing against Mako being involved with the triads (or knows how to fight dirty). After all an enforcers are pretty plentiful but an accountant who can handle scraps would be valuable (the mob's version of Internal Affairs > "I'm here to check your books"). I'd say a smuggler but Asami has the driving skills for that plus there based within the city. (Still they got that great view with waterfront access).
Anyways I'm curious to see how shady types access the spiritual part of bending. It wouldn't be 3 hour mediation sessions but something small and regular and contemplative like maybe people doing calligraphy (or not). I can see Bolin caring for animals or tending a rooftop garden. I would love to see Mako actions subtly implying he's the reincarnation of Iroh via music or brewing tea only to subvert it in the end.
> Mako stretches after a long day of mobwork/probending/bookkeeping
>checks on his brother but too tired/restless to sleep
>opens cupboards doors, where he contemplates a vast array of teas
>discerning selects one and proceeds to painstakingly brew said beverage
>brings the cup to his lips to inhale the rich aroma
>"Almost forgot the special ingredient"
>dumps half a shot of rotgut
> "Man how did people ever drink this stuff?"
>> No. 104742
>>104736
But what would happen if the other team was also contracted to lose?
>> No. 104743
>>104742
Than Mako would be pretty bad at his job, which judging by my piece here he already isn't stellar at.

>>104740
Well, we already kinda made him a bookie who also rigs the Probending matches for the mob. That way we can have Probending and not have it at the same time.

What I've been trying to do was to have Korra take part in ONE match.

So she gets the basis for airbending and we can sorta check Probending off the list of stuff that has to be shown for the world building. We still get to see a glimpse of the finals but Amon rushes them earlier.

I don't know. It's not really an elegant solution, is it?
>> No. 104744
>>104743
>>I don't know. It's not really an elegant solution, is it?

It still works well enough. It loosely maintains the general arc of canon, giving a reason for the four members of Team Avatar to meet that doesn't require radically reworking the plot. Fixing matches also gives Mako a mob job that isn't overtly violent. And it'd help better set up the championship finale, which is an awesome set piece for Amon and Lin.

>>104740
There are a couple of ways to mitigate the whiplash effect of the brothers' parents getting killed in a crime and them turning to crime to survive. Mako could gradually express real regret over the compromises he's had to make to protect Bolin, and talk about how he didn't have many choices after his parents' death. Thus touching on how the city's system is dysfunctional enough that men like Amon and Tarrlok can rise to power.

Their parents could have been targeted for being a mixed couple, which would add a bit of cultural color to Republic City, and the Triple Threats are the triad that's cool with interracial families. So the TTT are protection here. Which could add a spin to the Korra/Mako and Asami/Mako romances; Asami isn't a bender, but she's of Fire Nation descent, while Korra is a bender but she's quite SWT. (Making the Agni Kais were Fire supremacists are they targeted the Satos for being wealthy and having a mixed marriage, given Asami's green eyes? That'd give a bit of a push to Mako/Asami despite him being a gangster.)

Which would exploit an implication I thought was neat in canon -- Amon attacks decapitates the only explicitly multiethnic triad in the city, meaning the bender underworld has to struggle with its own internal divisions while fending of the Equalists.

Alternatively, Mako could be very defensive about his job as a sports fixer, and not believe it to be "bad" in the same way as what the street thugs do. Until someone like Lin points out that, hey, the triads make serious gambling money off the games Mako fixes. What does he think Zolt does with that money, fund orphanages? And Mako then has to confront the truth.
>> No. 104763
I'm not hot on a scenario like >>104736 because it would give a bad first impression of Mako when he's supposed to be a sympathetic character.

I liked the pro-bending scenes a lot so I'm a bit biased I suppose, but I think they should be kept. Episode 2 immediately set up Korra and the brothers as a team and that's important, and they were a nice way of having narrative breaks while keeping the show action-oriented. The Equalist attack on the stadium would also have less weight if it hadn't been established as a major setting and if Korra and her friends hadn't been the ones competing against the Wolfbats. Furthermore it makes Korra befriending the bending brothers super clunky--why would she befriend people who want her to purposely lose the match? She has a reason to meet up with them again and talk to them and get to know them after she helps them win the game, but if the brothers are just small-time criminals I don't see why she would want to keep interacting with them at all. In a 12 episode series it's better if trust is established between them right away if you want them to be Korra's homies.

We can still play up the gang angle if Mako and Bolin are players; we can even still have the fixers and corruption in the probending circuit. In canon I think it was implied that the brothers entered the ring in order to make money earnestly instead of being number runners for the triads and were still essentially homeless--they were allowed to stay in the arena attic as long as they won games. That's where all their earnings were going. But their desperation was never played up. So here's what I think:

A fixer, Shady Shin or some other random guy, talks to Mako before the match in episode 2; he wants the Fire Ferrets to lose and Mako reluctantly agrees to it, and his posture and expression make it clear he feels guilty as hell about it but has no choice. Hasook smashes his helmet to the floor and quits in a rage because he doesn't want to be on a team with assholes who are going to throw him under the bus so some gangsters can win some money. Korra steps in and Mako figures that since she's hopelessly green they're not gonna win anyway so he might as well play properly. (Un)fortunately she comes through in the last minute which gets them in hot water with the TTT. They let the brothers off easy when they fucked off to play sports, but you can't just leave the mob when you feel like it. They own you. And defying them is A Bad Idea (tm). Mako tries to hide it from Bolin and his new teammate Korra--they don't need to know, he can handle this shit on his own--but that falls apart when Bolin/Mako (I think we've agreed Mako might be a better option here, especially if Bolin is going to get his bending taken away later?) is roped back into being a thug and captured by Equalists for Amon's Revelation. I think I'd make this episode 4, cut canon episode 4's content and make episode 3 a team-building/worldbuilding episode instead wherein we see a little more of the city and a little more gang activity and a little more Korra-Lin antagonism. Maybe they go on that Team Avatar joyride a little earlier to patrol for criminals and find that there are some other, shadier characters in masks going after the same people, disabling them somehow and dragging them away before Korra can do anything about it.

After the Revelation, Zolt is still the head of the Triple Threats and is looking for a way to restore his bending, although his gang has been severely weakened by Amon. He continues to pose a threat to the brothers and run shady business in the bending ring, which eventually comes to a head in episode 6. The Wolfbats have managed to win all their rounds with the help of the TTT; the Fire Ferrets fought their way to the championship legitimately. Tahno believes he's got immunity--he's had it so far, no matter how much he cheats--and the TTT simply instructs him to take out the Fire Ferrets using whatever techniques they want, and hurt them. The plan is for them to "win" and then be disqualified for cheating, so the underdogs win the championship and big $$$$ are made from the bets, but the other team is still left a crippled mess. Things go awry of course when Amon drops in to say hello. The Equalists (the Lieutenant specifically?) swipe Zolt and some cronies from the stands and Amon makes his big spiel while dangling Zolt by his hair or collar. He de-bends the Wolfbats as well as Bolin, who is injured but still on the platform, and then leaves with the mob boss in tow. Perhaps Lin & co find Zolt again, who is barely recognizable, in episode 9 while they search the Equalist prison for Korra and Lin's captured men.
>> No. 104771
>>104763
That is some great stuff. I love that:

-things stick close to canon and pro-bending is kept to glue the cast together, but its shady aspects are worked with
-triads have strong involvement in the plot
-brothers still have very recent criminal associations but they are making an effort to get out, which shows that they're good people despite their past, and Korra has a reason to befriend and trust them
-we get to see Mako being protective and trying to shield other people from bad consequences
-Hasook's character makes a lot more sense (him quitting in canon in such a fashion was a little odd)
-de-bent people get to be around and doing stuff.

And my mind is blown by these concepts in the earlier posts:

>Triple Threats are the triad that's cool with interracial families. So the TTT are protection here. [...] Amon attacks decapitates the only explicitly multiethnic triad in the city, meaning the bender underworld has to struggle with its own internal divisions while fending of the Equalists.

>I would love to see Mako actions subtly implying he's the reincarnation of Iroh via music or brewing tea only to subvert it in the end.

While making a little nod to the Mako/Iroh connection would not be an important plot-driving element, it's still a cute quirk to make Mako more human. More importantly it's a really neat little homage, and it kinda plays with the concept of friendships transcending lifetimes.
>> No. 104786
>>104771
>>104763

Eh, I can't help but feel that we're moving back to square one if we marry the plot to the Probending again.
The cost/benefit just doesn't add up.

There were exactly two uses that Probending had in the realm of plot.
1. Give Korra an in for Airbending
2. Make shit look real when Amon blows it up. (And really any previously introduced vista would have served for that.)

And there are far and wide stretches of nothing in particular in between, where Bryke just wants to show off the animation budget.
It doesn't even serve particularly well as a means of establishing Bolin and Mako. They're still pretty superficial and what little development they got, seemed to happen in spite of Probending and not because of it.

And need I remind you guys that we're still working within the 12 episode constraint?

All you've seemed to have done so far is glue on extra bits.
>> No. 104795
>>104786
I think there might be at least two ways to in which pro-bending could work with these triad tanglements.

After the supposedly-rigged match ends in a Fire Ferrets victory due to Korra, Mako gets taken to Lightning-Bolt Zolt so they can have a very serious (and possibly violent) discussion. However, Amon happens to attack TTT HQ and kidnaps Mako, Zolt and others.

So here's where the plot can branch out in two different directions.

Pathway A:
When Korra causes a distraction at the equalist rally, Mako ends up saving the now-powerless Zolt, and assists him in escaping. Zolt values the concept of honor, and due to Mako saving him, he thinks he's in debt to him. He forgives the fact that Fire Ferrets didn't do what they were supposed to. Zolt half lets the brothers leave TTT, half kicks them out. They're free and don't owe anything to TTT anymore; they can now play in the pro-bending tournament the way they want to.
In this scenario, the game that Korra won for the Ferrets allowed the team to get into the final match. The Ferrets have won their games really easily, they've been very clearly the best team during the tournament, and everyone expects them to win. In this AU, Wolfbats would be a newbie team and the underdog. But even though Zolt allowed Mako and Bolin to go their own way, he'll still try to gain money from these games. So TTT pays the referees to ensure a Wolfbats victory.
With the help of referees and some dirty tricks, the Wolfbats manage to win, but then Amon attacks. Bolin may or may not lose his bending here; depends on whether it's possible to make a non-bending Bolin still relevant and useful in later episodes.

Pathway B:
Mako has decided that being involved with TTT is too dangerous. He leaves TTT. But this means that Fire Ferrets are forced to quit the tournament as well, because there's too much organised crime around the sport, and it'd be too risky to hang around close to the arena. Fortunately, TTT is currently in chaos due to what happened; as long as Mako and Bolin keep their distance, TTT don't have the resources to go after them. Asami and Korra help the brothers get new jobs. Later on the tournament is about to end, and the girls really want to go watch the finals. They're in the audience when Amon attacks.

In both pathways, we'd only get two pro-bending games, and both would have a purpose. The first one to bring the cast together; the second one to get crashed by Amon. The rest of the games are superfluous. In fact, the other games in the series mostly serve to show that Fire Ferrets have a lot of friction and they struggle with the concept of teamwork. That's no good, and it definitely needs to be cut.
In pathway A, there should probably be a couple of scenes with Korra practising pro-bending between the two games. These scenes should have a bunch of dialogue during the training so they're not a complete waste of time; some plot exposition and stuff.

As for Tahno/Wolfbats rivalry: I'd like to keep Tahno around so that he can get de-bent and some of this stuff can happen later on >>104514

Tahno's a pretty one-dimensional smug prick, so IMO there's only need for one establishing scene for him. In pathway A, he could be gloating right before the match. In pathway B, Korra and Asami might be looking around the arena and stumbling on Tahno. First they'd fangirl over a pro-bending star, but they'd soon enough realize that Tahno's a jerk. So once the game begins, they'll be booing at Tahno and rooting for the other team.
>> No. 104839
>>104795

Honestly I have to agree with this, probending does very little in itself, and the series has a very very limited time span, given that trying to add the stuff that people want to add, while keeping it in, just isn't viable.

Personally I heavily advocate cutting it entirely and finding other areas to make us of the plot development that pro-bending did have. Mostly I'd advocate insuring that replacement scenes heavily focus one being 'in the city' so to speak, helping to address the problem of a loss of connection with republic city.

So for example, meeting the brothers out in the city helps to establish the corruption and seedy side of the city, rather than in a game. Equally when you want to ease back the tension after a high tension episode, do so by having Korra explore or interact with the city, not the arena.

For me the big problem with keeping pro-bending is the time investment, the before/after matches only deal with character interaction, and don't move the primary plot or help establish the setting, and even feel distanced from it. While a large part of the actual matches themselves tend to be little more than visual combat with only a sprinkling of char development. In a twelve episode series, with as much content as they want to put in, scenes need to be doing as much work as possible.
>> No. 104968
You know what the problem with Asami is? She doesn't have a fleshed-out personality. She's nice. That's it. Nothing wrong with being nice, but when that's the beginning and end of your established on-screen presence, it makes for pretty shallow characterization. I got interested when I read that Asami was a probending fan who liked to drive fast cars and had martial arts training. I think these elements should have been brought out earlier and she should have been made out to be more of a thrill-seeker and a risk-taker. Maybe a way could have been worked in so, when the Equalists attack the probending arena, she jumps in (against her father's wishes) and helps Korra, Mako, and Bolin escape.
>> No. 104977
File 133991804186.png - (759.23KB , 926x792 , asami_and_korraaaa_by_hellpassion-d4wb86q.png )
104977
>>104968
In that thrill-seeker, risk-taker vein, if I could add something to Asami's personality, I'd give her something of an adventurous spirit with deep ties to sentiments of scientific progress. The whole Korra and Asami meeting each other first idea was inspired by two scenes that came to mind:

1) Asami sincerely trying to help Korra learn airbending by putting her in front of a giant fan in one of her father's factories. (with things going as well as you'd expect)

2) And the two getting into a quiet, relaxed situation where they end up looking at the night sky with Asami entertaining ideas of space travel and visiting different worlds. With such a tightly established world with a heavily insulated mythology, the subject of outer space is one that isn't brought up much, if at all (The Planetarium from ATLA Season 2 being a chief exception). Heavenly bodies like the Sun, Sozin's Comet and the Moon are definitive entities, almost absolutes in the narrative.

This would show something of a maverick, whimsical disposition in the young Sato, a capacity to think beyond the familiar comforts and certainties of the world she resides on, thinking of places possibly devoid of the familiar elements that have frightened, empowered, damned, saved and defined her people for thousands of years. Of course, she's smart enough to know the time for that is far into the future and that she'd probably sate her curiosity by exploring the land she can reach, but it would nonetheless put her at odds with being tied down to her father's company.

This would also highlight the fleeting nature of the Avatar, and show a new dimension to the Equalist argument. That there may come a time when people won't need bending anymore and that one day they'll leave their current world for good, obviating the need for an Avatar. And where would that put Korra? For that matter, what happens to the 'last' avatar?

They'd avoid the impasse usually hit when thinking of the sublime by coming to the conclusion that Korra and her successors will continue to guide and protect mankind so they can reach that point. If the people and the avatar must part, it will be an amicable farewell, full of bittersweet pride, joy and excitement. Perhaps she would even find new ways to achieve and define balance along the way.

Asami: Who knows, maybe there are Avatars out there, too. You could form a club or something.
Korra: That'd be pretty cool. But don't you worry, I'm not about to leave my sidekick behind if they don't let you in with me.
Asami: (smirks)

Add some technical know how in there and you have someone who's more than just the team's smart guy, but something of a dreamer. A visionary who sees the potential in where technology can take us and bemoans how it is exploited so we can find better(worse?) ways to hurt one another. An individual that tries to reconcile Jules Verne-esque fantasy tech into a workable blueprint. A young girl, who is as a result of being such, is all the more betrayed, hurt and horrified by her father's sinister ambitions.
>> No. 104980
Some thoughts after episode 1x10:

Lin and Tenzin's family are still great. Some people on /co/ complained about fartbending and overpowered kids, but I didn't mind them. As for the Krew, the damage was done earlier in the season. They haven't had much chemistry and they don't feel too close. Due to this, their interaction in this episode felt very tense and strained. Asami calling out Mako's recent actions was good, though... but I'd prefer if Mako had never been acting so inconsistently in the first place. Wasn't happy with him trying to blame Bolin, either.

Amon now appears more clearly like a conquering megalomaniac rather than a freedom fighter with a reasonable argument. We also got a glimpse of Hiroshi, who's been off-screen and on the run for the past few episodes. Presumably he'll be important again in the finale, and so will his connection with Asami.

Much of the episode was action scenes. Characterization in LoK has issues but action works nicely enough, so I don't have many notes. Except that I loved the idea of using magnets against metalbenders, and Mako redirecting the electricity. Clever tricks.
Oh, and when we saw the councilwoman and her husband, I was thinking "who the fuck are these people and what's going on". She probably should've gotten a couple of really obnoxious lines in the earlier episodes so that she'd be memorable enough to be recognised now.
There was also general Iroh and the United Forces. Curious to see how they're gonna do.

So in the end, this episode was nothing too bad. Mostly the problem lies in all the previous episodes. The Krew have gotten too much romantic tension and too little friendly screentime together. As a result, their interaction feels highly uncomfortable now that the series is about to end.

Two big questions that I see as having the possibility of changing everything and forcing us to re-evaluate all the previous episodes are Amon and Asami. Amon has some remarkable powers, and once we find out what exactly is going on with him, maybe everything will turn out to make sense and we wouldn't want things any other way? Maybe Amon will turn out to be so interesting that dealing with Tarrlok so quickly would be the better choice in the end?

And as for Asami, I could never fully let go of the theory that maybe the Hiroshi vs. Asami scene way back was staged to gain the Krew's trust. Either that, or maybe it was about Asami finding out that both her and Hiroshi were secretly equalists, and she had to choose whether it was the right time to blow her own cover or not. Asami's extreme niceness made her look very suspicious and possible mole material right from the start.
I'm not fond of the "double-agent all along" tweest if it happens, but it would at least show some forethought, and it'd be a slightly better option than the romance drama possibly pushing Asami towards equalists.
But either way, this is all just speculation and we'll find out the truth soon enough. We'll want to work with what we've got now, rather than what we think might happen later. Mainly I'm just wondering if there will be any huge revelations that completely change everything we think about Amon, Asami, Hiroshi, or even the whole series. I would be delighted if there's some kind of magic trick that makes everything work in hindsight.
>> No. 104981
>>104839
I disagree.

Sports like probending are a good way to introduce the triad problem in the forms of numbers rackets/fixing/etc. and it fits the setting in that it seems to serve as a stand-in for boxing in Republic City (boxing was immensely popular in the 1920s before being hit hard by the Depression). If Korra is set on a team with Mako and Bolin from the very start it gives them a bond and a reason to work together immediately, which as I said before, is necessary in a 12 episode series. Korra just continuously happening upon the brothers who are working for the triads and eventually befriending them might be nice but would develop too slowly. Or, if you did manage to squish it into the show's timeline, it would feel too fast even if we were informed there were multiple timeskips so technically speaking they did have enough time to become real friends--everyone would be complaining their relationship feels empty and stilted because most of their bonding time would have to be offscreen.

I don't think probending accounts for most of the "lost time" in the show. If you're feeling that, I think that's probably because of episode 5 which did contain a few probending scenes but wasted more time dealing with love triangles imo that didn't really contribute much to character development or anything meaningful at all. It was a fun episode and we got that crying Bolin scene from it so it's not a total loss, but it could have stood to be more... economical. And the best way to do that, instead of completely excising probending from the show, is to just cut away the needlessly complicated romance strings. With The Spirit of Competition on the cutting room floor we have an ENTIRE EPISODE to work with.

You can up triad involvement and keep the 1920s boxing fever flavour by having underground bending rings which were a little more violent and dangerous than the official sport, run by criminal organisations, and often rife with illegal gambling and drinking. Perhaps it's here where Mako and Bolin got their start. However you would have to keep in mind this has to air on Nick and you can only slip in so much before the network calls it inappropriate, and you'd have to tell me why Korra and Asami would end up watching the illegal bootleg version of the sport they listen to on the radio instead of the Real Deal in the stadium, and why they would want to associate with guys obviously involved in Criminal Activities.

And ok, if you want probending out completely, what are you going to put in its place, specifically? What is the event that ties Korra to the brothers? Where is Amon going to make his first big, official move (the equivalent of attacking the stadium, which can't happen in a version with no probending because there would be no special connection to that place)? Korra is a big fan of martial arts and probending in canon, what are you going to do with that interest if she never gets involved in any of it? Should she even have that interest when nothing is going to come of it? What would she want to do instead, that would be in character for the Korra we know? There are now very large voids in the series that can't easily be sewn up by things already present, how do you propose to fix them while keeping the show recognisable? (And appropriate for Nick?)
>> No. 104982
>>104980
> Amon now appears more clearly like a conquering megalomaniac rather than a freedom fighter with a reasonable argument.

That's what he always was though. He made that crystal clear in his stadium speech; the freedom fighter thing may have been his original aim and he was corrupted by the power he wielded, or he might have been deliberately manipulating the downtrodden the entire time so that he could take over the city. Either way, by the time Korra came to Republic City and he started making his moves, "help oppressed people" wasn't super high on his priorities list. "Overthrow the council and take over everything" was.
>> No. 104984
>>104982
Ever since we got to know Amon, there have been heated debates on whether he's justified in his actions or not. Some people think his goals are admirable and he's got a point, while some others feel that he's been a monster from the start. Since people have been very divided on whether Amon's truly a villain or a well-intentioned person, I tried to be careful with my wording and not to state any opinion on whether Amon ever might have been an okay guy or not.

I'll be waiting for the last few episodes to see if there's gonna be some kind of depth to Amon. Was he truthful or lying when he told about his past? If he lied, I'm assuming he lied about lots of other things as well? Who is he, how did he gain his powers, what is his motivation, what hidden goals does he have? Or is it just the generic "take over the world" schtick?

I hope he was actually telling the truth back then, and he means well but was corrupted by his hatred/power. That approach is more interesting than people being evil for the sake of being evil. Amon having ties to spirits would also allow for some discussion about spiritual matters, which has been kinda missing from the series so far.
>> No. 105013
>>104984
>> Ever since we got to know Amon, there have been heated debates on whether he's justified in his actions or not.

I feel those debates are partly due to the slipshod worldbuilding of the show. It's hard to place Amon's agenda in the context of the universe because, even though the Equalists can pull a large crowd and recruit dedicated soldiers, there's little else to show non-benders are an oppressed people. There's the gangsters in Episode 1, and the modern council being all benders, but it's all very airy. The brothers are benders yet clearly poor and exploited by their management in a sport that is lenient on teams like the Wolfbats. The Satos are non-benders, yet they're rich enough to own a house that rivals the Earth King's palace, and Hiroshi is seemingly financing the whole Equalist revolution himself. So the Non-bender/Bender conflict ends up coming across as "Jets VS Sharks."

Which is something a lot of posters have been trying to correct in various ways. We've talked a lot about the brothers and how they're just trying to survive in the only way left to them, and how the triads might play a (exploitive) role in taking on responsibilities for their own ethnic blocks that the police have abdicated, but not so much about the Equalists. What can we do to make them at least marginally more sympathetic to the audience and to Korra?

One idea I had was for Asami to have a subplot in one episode where, as part of her training to one day take over the company, is directed by Hiroshi to hire workers for a new plant. She then has to weigh hiring benders VS non-benders, and how many of each. Touch on the advantages and disadvantages bending provides in modern industry.
>> No. 105041
>>104981
>>104984
>>105013

I agree with you, and I know why makers of LofK didn't put much effort into exploring the oppression of non-benders by benders: they are making kids show, so they don't push that too far, because, you know, they think that kids don't understand complex sociopolitical implications of certain elements of the fictional world.
>> No. 105044
>>105013
>It's hard to place Amon's agenda in the context of the universe because, even though the Equalists can pull a large crowd and recruit dedicated soldiers, there's little else to show non-benders are an oppressed people.
There was the police treating peaceful protesters violating curfew as Equalists, arresting them and using force against them.

>What can we do to make them at least marginally more sympathetic to the audience and to Korra?
If the moral of the story involves peace, it's better to show both sides as shitty and unsympathetic, with no proper good guy among the two - because the good guy is the actual termination and absence of conflict.

Besides, I hate the "both sides are supposed to be sympathetic and fighting for (world) peace" plotline even more.
>> No. 105067
>>105013

Honestly I don't think the show made any ambiguity about his actions, he isn't justified. He arguments are silly and irrationality, (bending is a disease, responsible for every war), he's never shown anything but megalomania, etc. The economic advantage of bending wasn't discussed because it doesn't exist, at least in canon.

However, the clashes with our own observations that it should exist, and thus we get dissidence. We notice that there are reasonable arguments for a certain suspicion of bending, and advantages it could cause. And thus we get dissidence, yet notice that at no point to the 'real world' arguments for bending (economic advantage, privilege) intersect with Amon's arguments.

Essentially, I think they wanted a X-men style show, where Amon hates bending like marvel-verse people hate mutants. The problem is that this clashes with the previous show, where bending was simply part of the world, and clashes with the themes since benders are in control, and it's a lot less hard to by sympathetic than to and oppressed minority. Not to mention X-men itself tend to have the problem that having massive power over normal people tends to clash with the whole 'oppressed minority' thing as well. Tarlok was the magneto to Tenzin's professor X, but the idea that the equalists had any legitimacy wasn't really on the table.

I think it would be a better show if they had sought to have Amon have a real grievance, with a insane view of the solution. But that's not the way it was written, at all. Critique the choice of motivations sure, but the presentation was fine, Amon was evil end of discussion.
>> No. 105139
>>105067
When Korra encountered those protestors in the park and got into an argument with them, she retorted with "you're oppressing yourselves". Right now, that argument seems to be all that the series has done to acknowledge the equalist agenda. Back when I first saw that episode, I thought "ha, those were some really lame comebacks... I can't wait for Korra to learn that the situation is more nuanced than she thinks". It seemed very obvious that Korra was losing that argument. She was unable to intellectually reply to the protestor's taunts. Instead, the guy successfully managed to goad her into giving him a physical threat. This meant that Korra accidentally showed the guy's argument to be true; benders have an unfair advantage over non-benders, and they can just bully non-benders into submission with their powers.

So I figured that the protestor scene was a nice introduction to these concepts:

-Korra tends to punch first and think later
-equalists have an agenda, and you can't defeat ideologies by punching them
-this series will be about Korra letting go of her impulse to fight and instead learning to use her brains

But it hasn't really come up later. Korra met the protestor again, and this time she actually did physically attack him to gain plot-relevant information. This fact still gained her no negative consequences, and it wasn't played up as an example of benders bullying non-benders. It was made to be something necessary that Korra needed to do to save Bolin, and looks like the audience was never supposed to have any tiny bit of sympathy for the protestor.

So yeah. Apparently the equalists are only oppressing themselves, they have no legitimate concerns, and it's all in their imaginations... or that's how things appear from the series so far. It's kind of a shame. When the first episode showed Korra getting taken to Lin due to wrecking shit up while dealing with gangsters, I took it as a great sign of things to come. Heroes causing collateral damage is barely ever addressed in fiction, so I figured that LoK will be a unique, daring series. I expected to see Korra messing up and then learning from her mistakes. But it's starting to seem like we were actually supposed to think she was on the right in that park; the bender oppression exists only in the equalists' heads, and "bending is the coolest thing in the world" is a good counter-argument against Amon's agenda.
>> No. 105154
>>105139

I don't want to start a political argument here, but American political culture and lack of critical thinking in American society had contributed to that...
>> No. 105174
One thing that I'd change and I really have to wonder if you disagree.

The lingering Lin/Tenzin backstory.
Don't get me wrong it's actually a nice touch. But the way everyone outside of the both of them seem to treat it is kinda cringeworthy to me.
Pema still seems to see Lin as a veritable threat to her marriage despite being in the midst of having her fourth baby.
Some blamed hormones and yeah, maybe. But it seemed like a good opportunity for Pema to gain some sympathy-points. Especially after that certain advice scene, which got people up in arms.
Here's a woman helping her out of the kindness of her heart and there's no scene of her aknowledging that.

Later Jinora made "Leave our father's ex-girlfriend alone!" her battlecry. Apart from how incredibly clunky that line was and couldn't have been sold right by BRIAN BLESSED himself, it also kinda means that that's all that they think of Lin.
And that's kinda distressing, all things considered. Tenzin had nothing but good words about Lin. The chief of Police, with a spotless record. One of the most skilled combatants and highly acclaimed public figure. But at home, everyone just seemed to know her as dad's pathetic, old fling.

Maybe I'm getting hung-up on a line that was supposed to be funny and it was immediately followed up by fartbending, so I'm probably not even supposed to think about it, but still...

I think they should have shown Lin interacting with the family more. A chance to bury an old hatchet, do away with some misconceptions. I guess, the time wasn't there, it may have happened off-screen.
>> No. 105176
>>105174
>Pema still seems to see Lin as a veritable threat to her marriage despite being in the midst of having her fourth baby.
All I saw was a woman tired of her extremely annoying son, just like she was in episode one without Lin around.

>But at home, everyone just seemed to know her as dad's pathetic, old fling.
>pathetic
Why?
Jinora is probably the only one who knows about her past with Tenzin since she's the curious one (I found nothing wrong with her line, btw), Meelo didn't even seem to recognize her, and he was very impressed by the end. We don't know what Ikki thinks and again there's nothing suggesting that Pema is feeling threatened or anything.
>> No. 105182
>>105174
I've been meaning to talk about that love triangle. The part that bothers me is the implication that Pema stole a taken guy, and then adviced Korra to do the same thing. I would really prefer a scenario where Lin and Tenzin had already broken up, and only after that Pema confessed her feelings. Lin could've started to regret the break-up later on, but at that point there was nothing she could do about it anymore.

I suppose I'm kind of a moralfag or something. But Pema's supposed to be a sympathetic character to the audience, and I can't even look at her without thinking about her love triangle shenanigans. It's not tactful to approach a guy who's taken, and she shouldn't have encouraged Korra to do so either. And in the latest episode, yeah... I think she appeared to still see Lin as a threat, and treated her accordingly. I've seen people defending her by saying that she was just stressed out by her kids and the pregnancy, but IMO she did act kinda jealous and snippy.

The kids or Jinora's line didn't bother me too much, though. It's just Pema's character that bothers me. According to the episodes we've seen, she appears to have kind of a nasty side to her, and I have trouble sympathising with her. (Also, how did Jinora even know about Lin's past? I assume that Pema and Tenzin must've had an argument about Lin at some point, and Jinora overheard.)
>> No. 105192
>>105182

We were already told they were drifting apart, and wanted different things out of life and their relationship, and Pema's advice was to make her feelings known. She didn't know about Asami, far as we saw, nor the love triangle.
>> No. 105219
>>104712
Watched episode 11's new clip >>105206 and immediately thought, "didn't someone say exactly this in that rewrite thread?"
>> No. 105220
>>105139
>>But it's starting to seem like we were actually supposed to think she was on the right in that park; the bender oppression exists only in the equalists' heads, and "bending is the coolest thing in the world" is a good counter-argument against Amon's agenda.

This is a really good summary of the flawed means by which the show addresses its central tension. There seems to be this odd assumption within ATLOK that the audience loves bending so much that we'll automatically be adverse to any suggestion that bending ought to be limited or removed from people on a large scale, and perceive anyone attempting to do such things as automatic monsters. After all, if bending were to disappear, we wouldn't get our cool fire/ice/rocks/tornado martial arts displays and that would suck! But in the context of the show's universe (where the actual stakes and tension should lie), there hasn't been a solid rational presented for why the removal of bending is an evil action, particularly so when we know that a majority of the population are non-benders to begin with.
This problem is heavily exemplified in episode 10, wherein Bei Fong's de-bending scene is equated through the soundtrack and framing as though she were being executed... But we know that the de-bending process isn't lethal; the woman's fine! But the tension we the viewer are supposed to be feeling is based on the fact that one of the most powerful benders in the show lost her abilities and won't be able to do cool metal bending anymore, like the sweet tricks she pulled bringing down the two airships seconds before. The loss of bending is meant to be viewed as bad because the viewer likes it and wants to see it, even if the in-universe explanations don't form a convincing argument for why de-bending is threatening at all. I can't help but equate it to a five year old legitimately declaring that his mother is an evil overlord simply because she threw away his favorite fire truck toy when he was being loud and violent with it.
>> No. 105221
>>105220
>>when we know that a majority of the population are non-benders to begin with.

Are they? As has been discussed up-thread, the worldbuilding for the context of the conflict is pretty shabby. There don't seem to be many martial benders anymore, as the Equalists didn't get Zerg rushed during the arena attack by benders in the audience, but by the same token nobody aside from the Equalists is armed with the weapons of non-benders: knives, dart launchers, dao, hammers, hook swords, etc etc.

The population of Republic City, aside from the cops, triads, and Equalists, seems to be entirely noncombatants. I don't think the ratio of benders to non-benders is guessable considering the combination of people not being militarized and the weak worldbuilding.
>> No. 105222
>>105139
When Bolin got reduced to some puppet to make people lol is about when I realized the series is not particularly well developed in its writing.

But seriously you raise a good point, it's a damm shame.
>> No. 105223
>>105220
What we really needed earlier in the series is to establish an overarching threat to Amon's actions/policies beyond the removal of bending. It shouldn't have been 100% based on just the basic horror of having one's bending gone, but had other ill effects on a bigger scale and framed Amon as unquestionably in the wrong. If the protagonists are going to call Amon a "monster", he'd better be owning that title with applied actions. I've got at least two proposals at this time...

1. Establish that Amon's "energy bending" is flawed and can lead to extreme illness, internal injuries, or even death in de-bent people sometime after the procedure is performed. For added bonus points, have Amon be aware of these side effects, but undeterred in his quest to de-bend the world. You've now established that Amon is willing to knowingly gamble with the health and lives of all benders for the sake of his cause; that's pretty monstrous.

2. More of a plot-point scenario: have Amon kidnap one or several powerful healers from Republic City's hospital and de-bend them. With these abilities gone, several people waiting for treatment in the hospital (benders and non-benders, young and old, rich or poor) suffer and die. Have Amon react to this occurrence by saying something like "Sacrifices are to be expected on the path to equality". Once again, you've established that Amon is willing to let innocent people from all walks of life die due to his actions and that he finds this acceptable; now he's a viable threat.
>> No. 105224
>>105221
And this is another problem of the show. We need to firmly establish what the world's ratio of benders to non-benders is, and what Republic City's ratio of have to have-nots is as well. A lot of discussion on the ethics or moral dilemmas within the show get stunted because, as you noted, the world building hasn't given us solid data to work with. We don't know how to weigh anything, because we don't know half the variables.
>> No. 105225
>>105223
This is one my main issues with Amon and the way the show is portraying him as this awful villain. Like if they had tried to show him as a morally grey visionary, that would be fine, but as is, they're clearly trying to make him 100% a bad guy.

That said, it's really hard for me to sympathize for characters losing their super-powers and getting on the same level as me. It's treated like death in the show when really... it's not.
>> No. 105226
>>105225

It's a matter of perspective really.
>> No. 105227
>>105225

They made the plight of non-benders sympathetic in episode 8.

The equalists on the other hand, are bombing the city on episode 10.

That is not something I'd call grey.
>> No. 105228
>>105226
Precisely! And it's one, I'll never have!

It's like if an alien was able to see not only within the human spectrum of light, but also UV-light. Then one day he tells me he feels so blind because he can't see UV-light anymore.

Okay, well I guess that sucks, but I don't really know what that's like, SHRUG.
>> No. 105229
>>105228

Sure you can.

Just imagine not being able to do something you've been doing all your life.
>> No. 105230
>>105229
That's like the most extreme case of comparing apples and oranges ever.
>> No. 105231
What Amon is doing, in essence, is spiritually crippling his victims. In a setting where the spirit world is real and can influence the mortal realm, cutting off humanity from it is a very bad thing. Cutting off the Avatar, the mediator between the two, is also a very bad thing.

Korra and Amon are alike in that they focus far too much on the physical, martial aspects of bending. They may acknowledge that a spiritual side exists, but they both tend to ignore it. Amon has even been in contact with spirits, apparently, but I guess he just thinks destroying that link is inconsequential/a small price to pay to achieve his goal. And I suppose their attitudes towards spirituality may reflect the modern world: it's rapidly industrialising, people are losing their direct connections to nature, advancements in technology (combustion engines, robotics, etc.) are making some everyday uses of bending obsolete while others have made benders top-notch blue collar factory workers. Korra doesn't particularly care about the spiritual side because no one does anymore; it's not seen as useful or relevant to daily life, unlike the physical aspect. And Amon might not care about what is being lost because he believes the world no longer *needs* bending.

I think most of these concepts have been implied in the show but are perhaps not obvious enough? Korra's spiritual struggle has been brought up a lot and I think it will probably be important in the finale, but overall I guess it (and airbending) took a backseat to the other stuff in terms of screentime? The information on the spirit world and the Avatar's role as a bridge between the spirit and mortal realms comes from the first series, also, so if you haven't watched or don't remember A:TLA, you're missing crucial worldbuilding stuff that helps explain why we should view Amon as a real threat.

It's difficult to talk about Amon when we don't know his true motivations or identity, though, and we're going to have to wait until the finale is over for that. Speaking of crippling people though, the Equalist de-bending scenes are obviously kid-friendly execution scenes. Amon's methods aren't allowed to be more horrific because LOK is a kid's show airing on Saturday Morning Nickelodeon.
>> No. 105232
>>105230

It's not about what you lost, but the feeling that comes with it.

That is what make it relatable.
>> No. 105241
>>105220
>>105223
>>105225
>>105228
I agree with these points. It's difficult for me to mentally put myself in the benders' situation and imagine what it would be like to lose my bending, and it's difficult for me to feel horrified about it. I've lived all my life without that kind of power and I know it's alright to live like this, so I don't see it being automatically immoral and terrible if superpowered people were brought down to my level. And it's particularly difficult to feel upset about Amon removing the bending of people like Lightning-Bolt Zolt who were abusing their powers.

Sure, we saw from Tahno that de-bending makes a person upset, but it's not all that bad, because in the end a person will live through it. Time heals wounds. Eventually you'll come to cope with the loss and learn to live like all non-benders.
But if we were to find out that de-bending does some kind of actual damage to a person's soul, mind or body, and if Amon was aware of this but didn't care, I would find it much easier to feel something when a character loses their bending. It's also yet another reason why it would be nice to keep the de-bent people around instead of shoving them off-screen as soon as they've served their purpose.

But yeah, I also agree with this anon: >>105231
We'll hopefully learn more about Amon soon. Right now we know barely anything, and it's difficult to discuss him because we rely too much on speculation.
>> No. 105242
>>105241

If only the 30% of the population was born with two legs, would it be right for us to amputate them so everyone was equal?
>> No. 105243
>>105231
>>What Amon is doing, in essence, is spiritually crippling his victims. In a setting where the spirit world is real and can influence the mortal realm, cutting off humanity from it is a very bad thing. Cutting off the Avatar, the mediator between the two, is also a very bad thing.

A very good point, and I find your other notations about comparing Amon and Korra's personal perspectives on spirituality interesting as well. I wish stuff like this was discussed more openly within the show itself.

>>But if we were to find out that de-bending does some kind of actual damage to a person's soul, mind or body, and if Amon was aware of this but didn't care, I would find it much easier to feel something when a character loses their bending. It's also yet another reason why it would be nice to keep the de-bent people around instead of shoving them off-screen as soon as they've served their purpose.

I agree. We need to follow a de-bent person as >>104514
and others have suggested. Again, it all comes down to firmly establishing the stakes and applied lengths the villain is willing to go to and why the audience should care in the context of the show's universe.
>> No. 105249
>>105242
This isn't so much a point about right and wrong. It's more about how the consequences of debending is painted as something similar to death in the show when it's simply something incomparable with our own lives.
>> No. 105250
>>105249
If it's really that difficult to put yourself in a bender's shoes you may be the least empathetic person I've ever heard about.
>> No. 105252
>>105242
Please not that "break off people's limbs" comparison again. We're not really discussing about whether Amon's actions in-universe are right or wrong, and that's not the point. The point is looking at the series from the outside perspective. Did Bryke want the audience to see Amon as being right, wrong, or morally ambiguous? Are we supposed to think he's an irredeemable monster, or a well-intentioned person with noble goals, or did Bryke want the fanbase to be divided when it comes to Amon?
Whichever the answer is, the character needs to be written in a way that supports the answer. The series needs to show information that allows the audience to interpret the character in the desired way. Same reason why we want to rewrite Mako, Pema, and some others; the audience is supposed to like them, yet the series gives little reason to do so.

Also, on another topic: Bolin barely even did anything in the last episode. He's a kind, cheerful and funny person, and among the most sympathetic characters in the series. But is it a bad thing for the character if he's only comic relief who gets sidelined once action starts? Is there too little depth to Bolin? People have been comparing him a lot to Sokka, and they've been pointing out that Sokka had a serious/strategic side to him. Sokka was simultaneously a buffoon and a genius, and that contradiction made him endearing to people. Meanwhile, Bolin makes people el oh el, but that's all he's got.

Does Bolin require any tweaking, or is it okay for one character to play just comic relief?

Back when we first heard that the series will have a love triangle, I was liking the idea of two very close brothers having feelings for the same woman. I thought it would be a really nice basis for some drama, but... well. Bolin's hurt feelings were played for laughs and that was kinda uncool. But on the other hand, I was very fond of the scene where Mako and Bolin make up. They discuss that no matter what happens, they're still brothers, they'll always care for one another, and relationship drama will never be able to separate them for good. They also share this little moment of "gah, girls make life so complicated", which was cute. - I think I would want some more brotherly moments like that when it comes to Bolin. It would also help make Mako more likable.
>> No. 105254
>>the character needs to be written in a way that supports the answer. The series needs to show information that allows the audience to interpret the character in the desired way. Same reason why we want to rewrite Mako, Pema, and some others; the audience is supposed to like them, yet the series gives little reason to do so.

Indeed. Once again, another common problem with The Legend of Korra is consistency of moral and emotional response to characters, their actions, and events. If you're watching a show and constantly (not once or twice, but constantly) unsure of how to appropriately "read" and respond to the perspectives put forth by characters and their actions, then the writers aren't conveying tension and the ethical rules of the story effectively. Of course audience interpretation is always varied, but general themes and concepts should be self evident. If the desired response from the writer isn't being conveyed to the reader even in a basic way, then there's a problem.

Amon was supposed to be viewed as a monstrous villain from Day 1, but only in episode 10 of a 12 episode series does he start performing unquestionably villainous acts (openly attacking a city). Korra and Mako's relationship is supposed to be viewed as an important and compelling romance for both parties, but instead generally comes off as unfounded and trite. How grounded are the Equalists in their complaints about benders having an unfair advantage? The fact that we keep coming back to the statement "we haven't been shown enough information to make a reasonable assessment" and the sheer ambiguity of appropriate responses to several scenarios within the show are an issue.
>> No. 105255
>>105241
I always kinda felt that loosing your bending might be kind of like loosing one of your senses. You can live without sight. Those that a born blind, they never miss it. But later in life? It so drastically changes all of your perspectives and and the way you interact with the world, that it might as well be like you were beginning anew.
That's not even mentioning the fact that if you spend your life honing and perfecting a skill, you'd feel empty if someone were to suddenly take it from you.

And I that's why I don't get Amon's argument either.
He says it's "unnatural" and an unfair advantage. But from what we know, bending has always been part of this world. If anything, the lack of bending would be the unnatural status.
From what I can tell, Bryke is trying very hard for that X-Men feeling, making the Benders feel like Mutants.
But that just doesn't mesh well with the world they created.
Amon is the unnatural one, what with his wonky, mysterious powers.
They should have really worked on Amon's rhetoric and established the Bender vs. Non-Bender conflict.
As it stands Amon just looks like a douche who wants all the magic for himself. Maybe that's what he is, but it should come as a surprise to everyone but him.
>> No. 105256
>>105254
Terribly sorry, meant to quote>>105252
>> No. 105262
>>105254
>Amon was supposed to be viewed as a monstrous villain from Day 1, but only in episode 10 of a 12 episode series does he start performing unquestionably villainous acts

Sigh.

The man is a charismatic fanatic that tells people what they want to hear, offering easy solutions to society's problems, and insists he's out for The People's best interests. He promises equality! He promises a fair minded government! He calls all his followers "brothers" and "sisters"! He's got a tragic past!

Part of the POINT is that he doesn't start off doing unquestionably villainous acts. First he goes after the Triple Threat Triad, and hey, they're fucking mobsters that brought misery everywhere they went, nobody sheds a tear for them. Then he goes after the White Falls Wolfbats, but they were assholes, right? Not too bad. And a few of the things he says have a germ of truth in them, don't they? And he takes out Tarrlok, who was a monster in a fine suit.

And then it all goes to shit and he starts hurting good people, attacking children and pregnant ladies, indiscriminately bombing, the whole nine yards of shittiness, and it becomes increasingly apparent that for all his talk about how he was doing it for "the people" he doesn't actually give a fuck about any individual person, and has no problem with letting a few innocents perish for his oh-so-noble-cause.

That's how it is with charismatic fanatics. Sometimes they do correctly identify a real problem, but as time goes on their uncompromising "solutions" become more and more blatantly terrifying.

The fact that his true face isn't shown at first is part of the character's strength.
>> No. 105267
>>105262
This was also reflected in his character design, in that we're not going to see his true face before we see his true colours. I've also found that in the earliest episodes his mask is usually shown at angles that make it look like he is smiling, and as the show goes on and he becomes more threatening he's shown more often at frowning angles.

Just the fact that he is never seen without a mask is a blatant hint that he is a deceiver and a manipulator who hides his true intentions. If you thought he was an ok guy at any point you pretty much got duped in the same way most of the people who signed up for the Equalists in the show did.
>> No. 105268
I'll admit that it's good how Amon started by targeting clearly villainous guys, and then went down the slippery slope towards everyone else. The concept of charismatic fanatics gaining power and then abusing it is a good story concept as well, and it happens in real life too. But the execution of these concepts in LoK is still lacking.

There must be some kind of grudge against benders, or some kind of reason for the citizens of RC feeling unhappy. Economical problems, high unemployment, triad violence, benders having an advantage in the job market, prejudices lingering after the 100-year war, anything. There's gotta be something that Amon is able to use to his advantage. Otherwise he wouldn't be gaining power, and there wouldn't have been so many people in that equalist rally. People who are happy with their lives can't be arsed to join a revolution.

But the show hasn't really given us anything. The triad themes of the first episodes seemed promising, but they were quickly abandoned. Korra or Tenzin never address the idea that non-benders of Republic City might be feeling unhappy for some reason or another, and they never talk about how to fix this. They never discuss the speech where Amon explained his motivations. All they're saying is that Amon is evil, dangerous, and the original source of the problems. It feels off.
>> No. 105275
>>105268
>But the show hasn't really given us anything. The triad themes of the first episodes seemed promising, but they were quickly abandoned. Korra or Tenzin never address the idea that non-benders of Republic City might be feeling unhappy for some reason or another, and they never talk about how to fix this. They never discuss the speech where Amon explained his motivations. All they're saying is that Amon is evil, dangerous, and the original source of the problems. It feels off.

Not to invoke Godwin's Law, but replace the benders in Amon's rhetoric with Jews, Blacks, and so forth... then ask if the failure to address the issue brought up would seem "off."

The Bender street people, and the numbers involved in what amounts to grunt labor for middling-at-best pay, make the claims that Amon has a point ring hollow.

I would like to see more evidence of a general economic downturn, perhaps with the local Triads gaining power at the expense of a police department Lin is fighting a losing battle against the corruption of. An honest assessment would be related to the lack of home rule, but the benders make a good scapegoat for some.
>> No. 105276
File 13401206785.jpg - (147.07KB , 800x541 , toza.jpg )
105276
>>105275
Economy might be something that could very plausibly turn people towards equalists. People are more tempted to look for easy answers from extremist movements during a time of a financial crisis. Also, Mako and Bolin used to live on the streets even though they had bending skills that could have helped them in getting a job. Maybe there is a downturn in economy and it's affecting everyone in the city, both benders and non-benders.

Btw, did anyone else expect to see more of Toza way back? The whole idea of Mako and Bolin being both street kids yet also popular athletes seems odd, and those two concepts sound like they'd be kinda contradictory. Apparently Toza was the missing link here. According to the character bios that have been posted online, he saw Mako fighting on the streets, took the brothers under his wing, and connected them into the whole pro-bending gig. I'm not sure if I remember right, but I don't think this stuff was ever mentioned inside the series itself?
>> No. 105278
>>105276
>>I'm not sure if I remember right, but I don't think this stuff was ever mentioned inside the series itself?

It was never mentioned in the series itself. Toza's only in one scene, and in Episode 3 Mako talks about how the brothers used to live on the street and do things they weren't proud of to survive, but all that stuff about Toza taking them in and giving them a fresh start is only Word Of God.

Maybe the content got cut?
>> No. 105281
>>105276
>The whole idea of Mako and Bolin being both street kids yet also popular athletes seems odd

Well, a bit less odd if you consider the fact that Korra is heavily influence by early pro sports, back before unions made it possible for players to not require multiple off-season jobs to make ends meet.

And criminal organizations were heavily involved due to illegal betting rings.
>> No. 105282
>>105276
Whatever happened to this man? I think he literally only got one scene in and was never seen again. Same with that Butaka/Botaka man that I felt was set up to be something bigger with that clearly non-generic voice and went nowhere. It's like they had these characters in for more scenes and more reasons and just went "Eh, fuck it. It's only 25 minutes, one season and we need more teenage love angst here, here and here."
>> No. 105287
>>105268
>>Korra or Tenzin never address the idea that non-benders of Republic City might be feeling unhappy for some reason or another, and they never talk about how to fix this. They never discuss the speech where Amon explained his motivations. All they're saying is that Amon is evil, dangerous, and the original source of the problems.
>>105275
>>I would like to see more evidence of a general economic downturn, perhaps with the local Triads gaining power at the expense of a police department Lin is fighting a losing battle against the corruption of.

I agree. The protagonists of this show, (in theory the people through which the viewer establish proper moral context) should be willing to discuss the implications of what Amon is saying and have an opinion on whether or not there really is bender/non-bender tension within Republic City. If we can't establish that there is in fact a problem, then Amon and his now massive Equalist army come off as just complaining about nothing. Its particularly odd in the case of Tenzin, who as the Avatar's son and an Air Nomad should be the first to try and understand his enemies/look for a peaceful resolution, but instead is the man to openly declare "Republic City is at war!".

Episode 8 addressed this problem slightly by having Tarrlok impose unfair rules and force on non-benders, but this was one isolated episode. Both Tarrlok as an oppressive bender to the public and his legislation were dropped from plot relevance after the episode. Also, note how the tension in that sequence shifted halfway through from:
"Korra is upset to see Tarrlok abusing innocent non-benders and must stop him"
to
"Korra is upset to see Tarrlok arrest her friends and must free them"

There's this weird problem tension being isolated within the protagonist's close social circles and personal interests when they should be looking out for the general good of society and larger issues.

Since we're discussing proposed rewrites... Okay, clearly demonstrate sequences of benders oppressing non-benders in day-to-day life within Republic City. Have Tarrlok's Anti Non-Bender Bill introduced sooner and drag the concept out longer, demonstrating progressively rigid and degrading rules for non-benders to follow under threat of legal or physical punishment. Have Korra witness and acknowledge that, yes, there are bender/non-bender issues. Then have Korra form reasonable opinions and actions based on what she's seen.

Korra is, after all, the Avatar. He job is to save everyone, bender and non-bender alike, and certainly not just her friends. She should be ready to tackle the imbalanced power regimes within the city without resorting to Amon's proposed solution of overt violence and forced equality. Establish that at the end of the day, Korra and Amon want the same thing: for things to be better in Republic City. But while Amon's willing to take things away and hurt people to achieve this goal, Korra is willing to fight for beneficial solutions for everyone that lets benders keep bending while still not allowing their powers to hurt others.
>> No. 105291
>>105223
I have a suggestion for a potential scenario too after reading some of these other posts about the need for a de-bent person to remain in the story.

All righty... Let's say that Zolt had a non-bender personal assistant similar to the skinny little toady Tarrlok has. Its established that Zolt uses his bending ability to keep his subordinate in a state of constant fear and obedience. Let the audience develop a level of sympathy with this character due to his plight of abuse. However, once Zolt looses his bending, reveal that the servant is actually utterly without morals and now with Zolt powerless, moves in to take total control of the Triple Threat Triads and in fact makes the mob even more powerful and dangerous due to having a much more calculating and intelligent leader. Introduce the added element within the show of the criminal underworld of Republic City growing progressively more violent and unstable as the underlings swoop in to fill the power vacuum and push out stronger due to having no criminal benders to keep them in check. Maybe this new element is what sparks further police activity but also stretches city resources, thus letting Amon's conquest for Republic City be easier? At the same time, it also establishes more bad and decidedly un-equal/un-peaceful things coming out of Amon's actions right from the get go.
>> No. 105292
To be fair, keep in mind that these guys went from writing with multi-season arc in mind to writing a one-season mini set in the future of their old story.

That's what this season was - a one-season miniseries meant to give a look at the future of Aang's world. They tried to get as many things as possible in there, and sometimes didn't have enough time to really develop things as much as I'm sure they would have liked to.

And then when they were done they heard "Good news everyone! You've been approved for another season!"

To which I'm sure their internal reaction was "that's fantastic! But... man I wish we could redo some things now that we know we have more room!"
>> No. 105295
>>105276
>>105278
>>105282
He went to the same place that Bolin's status as a ladiesman did
>> No. 105297
>>105292
That still doesn't really excuse the bad character writing and all this focus on the awful relationship drama rather than the bigger things like bender/nonbender strife and the reasons for it.

Asami, Mako & Bolin could really use some work, this whole secondary plot is cancerous to thier growth as characters.
>> No. 105300
>>105297
>That still doesn't really excuse the bad character writing

Ah, but, see, you assume I agree with you about that. And I don't.

I'm just saying, it's easy to say "they should have spent way more time on the Triple Threat Triad! And why didn't they spend more time talking about the economy?" but they didn't have a whole lot of room. They thought they were giving us another taste of the Avatar world, they tried to show us a lot of ideas into a small space, and they'd have done things differently if they'd known they had more room, as we know now.
>> No. 105303
>>105297
>They should focus on the plot instead of the characters!
But that's what bad writers do.
>> No. 105304
>>105303
Except the characters are not being properly focused on, All the people in the love drama are suffering for it and not getting enough development outside of it, especially Asami.

Also greentexting someones argument like that is dishonest.
>> No. 105305
>>105303
That would make people like Tolkien bad writers.
There's actually very few dogmas in writing, just dogmatic people approaching it.
>> No. 105306
>>105304
>Except the characters are not being properly focused on
Some characters. Korra, Lin and Tenzin are fine, and just because others took a backseat/still have to resolve tensions doesn't mean they won't get more focus in future episodes.
>> No. 105308
>>105303
Mike and Bryan didn't focus on ANYTHING except aping Twilight and the world of Mixed Martial Arts to create fanservice; what does that make them?
>> No. 105310
>>105308
This post makes you a whiny idiot.
>> No. 105311
>>105306
That isn't good enough. You can't excuse this shit by kicking the can down the road to when you'll deal with it. Part of the writing craft is making things matter in the moment of their happening, not filling up the page with irrelevant actions performed by cardboard people simply to justify their presence. Characters who aren't doing anything shouldn't fucking be in a scene.
>> No. 105312
>>105308
Yes, because Twilight invented love triangles.
>> No. 105313
>>105312
No, but it sure as fuck popularized them enough for these two to think that's what everybody wanted out of the series.
>> No. 105314
>>105311
>Characters who aren't doing anything shouldn't fucking be in a scene.
Not really. Or you should've taken out Sokka from half of season 2 then.
>> No. 105315
>>105313
The twilight obsession has to stop, it makes you sound like an insecure male teen.
>> No. 105316
...How did pointing out a weakness in the writing mostly involving the love drama cause this to happen?
>> No. 105317
>>105313
Twilight also had foreshadowing in it. Clearly it popularized foreshadowing, and anyone that used foreshadowing since then is aping Twilight. I have no idea if Twilight had foreshadowing in it, I've never read the crap. Frankly I had no idea it had love triangles in it either. All I know is "sparkly vampire," which is enough
>> No. 105319
>>105317
It had a thing between the main mary sue, her stalker vampire boyrfiend, and this werewolf dude who starts off normal but ends up turning into a near crazy rapist (And later imprints on mary sue and stalker vamp's newborn daughter and falls in love with her)

This is all second hand though so I can't explain it better than that.
>> No. 105320
>>105305
>That would make people like Tolkien bad writers.
Yes, very much so. Tolkien was a historian and a linguist who jury rigged a plot to justify his lingual thought experiments. His success caught the imagination of other writers with his particular brand of neuroses because it validated their own desire to write despite them not really having the interpersonal skills required to be any good at telling stories.

That said, the Hobbit was much better in this regard than Lord of the Rings. It's telling that the Hobbit was originally written without tying in the world he created for his conlangs to live in.
>> No. 105327
>>105320
Hepler?
>> No. 105330
>>105300
>>105297
>>105292

Also, shorter length of a story really isn't a valid excuse for less opertunity to build good characters and effective relationships. A well written movie can build characters and establish interesting relationships between said characters that instill within the audience a desire to see them end up happy together within 90 or so minutes.

In ATLOK, a great deal of weight is placed on Korra and Mako's supposed love for one another and the fact that they're clearly meant to get together... But the two have very little rationale or chemistry together beyond both being at least physically attracted to one another to make the audience feel like an eventual romantic relationship between them would be justified and rewarding.

Just because there are obstacles in the way of a relationship, and just because characters preform actions stereotypically associated with being in a relationship (leaning against one another while they sleep accidentally, brushing hair away from her face while she sleeps); doesn't necessarily mean there's just cause for a relationship to exist. All of this time and energy within the plot is being focused towards the song and dance of Mako and Korra ending up together, but I feel no investment in it because I can't see why or how this relationship matters to the extent its clearly supposed to. In a show where there's a mad masked man kidnapping people and eventually firebombing the city, we really don't to milk drama and tension out of "who's snogging who".

Again, for a rewriting suggestion if you MUST have Mako and Korra together: drop the two love triangles between Korra/Bolin/Mako and Korra/Mako/Asami. Have Mako and Korra interested in each other from the get go, establish more chemistry, shared interests/activities between them. Have Korra and Mako perhaps start the roots of a romantic relationship early in the series, but have their respective odd sorts of pasts (poverty and social isolation respectively) keep them from knowing how to adequately tackle such a project more seriously. Legitimately make the audience believe and feel that Mako and Korra are good for each other and deserve one another so that the audience wants to see them advance their relationship into full on love as the series progresses. Perhaps even use their advancing relationship as a paced metaphor for plot points in the series. When Korra admits she's afraid of Amon but is willing to work past it, Mako admits he's afraid of too much emotional intimacy but is willing to work past it. When they fully form The New Team Avatar, that's also when they feel comfortable holding hands or kissing, and so on.

Introduce Asami as Korra's friend first as others in this thread have suggested rather than Mako's first girlfriend. In fact, maybe have any "relationship related drama" within the show come out of Asami being jealous that Korra spends too much time with her boyfriend Mako and not enough girl-time with Asami; particularly since Asami should, in the latter half of the series, really need a supportive friend in Korra.

I get the fact that ATLOK is meant to be more romance based than its predecessor. Okay, fine. But if said romance is ill-thought out and doesn't invest the audience, then it really isn't working as a tool for drama or interest and honestly has no place in the plot.
>> No. 105333
>>105330
You're making big assumptions by assuming that we're supposed to see this as a Destined Love That Must Be The Final Outcome of the story, mostly because it supports your desire to see this as bad writing. But what I have taken from it, and what might turn out to be true depending how the season ends, is that Korra's not very good at dealing with FEELS, and that Mako is not very good at making decisions and sticking to his guns on them.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the ending isn't building toward Makorra? Or that if it is, it's only to set it up for having those expectations subverted? It might very well end with Mako/Asami, Bolin/Korra, or even No One In A Relationship With Anyone Because Asami Feels Betrayed by Mako's Emotional Infidelity and Korra and Mako Realized They Actually Don't Have Anything In Common But A Desire to Touch Each Other's Naughty Bits And Korra Just Isn't Attracted to Bolin.
>> No. 105334
>>105333
If they're NOT building to Makorra this whole thing has been a gargantuan waste of fucking time unparalleled in any fictive presentation I've been exposed to; it would be like if Die Hard ended with John McClane getting thrown from the building instead of Hans Gruber; what the fuck was the point of making us watch all of that shit if it ultimately went ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOWHERE? That said, it's what they did with pro-bending so maybe you're onto something; maybe they actually get some kind of sadistic thrill out of jerking us off and then cutting our throats when we think it's going to end up going somewhere good.
>> No. 105337
>>105334

Nick wanted them to have new villains every season, 24-style, but I doubt that Mike and Bryan will definitely end the romance storylines. For better or worse, extending the show was always a possibility, so making the Season 1 romantic resolution ambiguous or breaking up Mako/Asami but only lightly hinting at Mako/Korra becoming a Thing could very well happen.
>> No. 105339
>>105291
We only see Zolt like, twice, if that. What you're proposing is basically adding another subplot with a new villain to the show. It would just get really clunky.

What you're saying makes sense but I don't know if it can be properly fitted into the show.

>>105330
Honestly if we cut out the love triangles Mako might be an enjoyable character. It just makes him look really bad and doesn't move the plot or character development forward. It actually cripples worldbuilding because precious time spent dealing with stupid jealousy issues could be used instead to show the characters' opinions and thoughts about what's going on in the world around them.

Also see these posts for stuff about Asami/the love triangle/what to do with it
>>104475 >>104497 >>104520
>> No. 105340
>>105334
It's not a waste of time, it's building up to an ending. The characters have to learn things about themselves, and these are the events on the path to that realization. Events that almost every human has gone through or will go through at some point in their lives, which is why romance plots are used so much in the first place. The goal of any writer who knows what he's doing is to make the audience identify with what the characters are going through. Most people haven't fought terrorists, so that's not something they can immediately identify with. We can empathize with the fact that "Well, terrorists suck when they're not fighting corrupt regimes," but we don't identify with it unless we've actually fought in a war.

You're supposed to make the audience feel like this is a person that is like them. Since most people aren't virtuous and heroic demigods with magical kung fu, you tend to do that by making their social relationships mirror the audience's own, and giving them problems that the audience has to go through themselves.

Not doing that produces impersonal war memoirs or comic book-y power fantasies that only appeal to a specific variety of nerd.
>> No. 105342
>>105319
>It had a thing between

Wait, you're trying to tell me what's in the book?

Stop that. I'm better off not knowing and you know I'm better off not knowing and I know you know that.

>>105334
lolwhut? If Mako and Korra don't end up together, "it'd be like if John McClaine died in Die Hard?"

I swear, some of you guys act like the show is 20 minutes of "romance stuff" and 5 minutes of action.

Oh sure, the characters' relationships are an important part of the story, but come fucking on, this is an epic action-adventure in an unusual setting with a little time spent on the relationships between the stars. It's not a show about the relationships between the stars with a little time spent on action-adventure stuff. Yeeeesh. If Mako and Korra don't end up a couple, THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE WHOLE SHOW POINTLESS, BECAUSE THEIR RELATIONSHIP WAS NEVER THE POINT.

The POINT of Die Hard was "John McClaine saves his wife from bad men that have taken over the building." His relationship with The Girl is very much central to the story. Saving her is his whole goal, she's the only reason he's even in the damn building.

The POINT of Korra is that the new young Avatar who has never been outside of her little rustic fishing village is dropped in the middle of The Big City, meeting New People, experiencing a whole world she's only ever heard of, and living up to her (huge) responsibilities to keep the peace in a tinderbox of a city. Her relationship with The Boy(s) is not as integral. She would have gone to the city if Mako and Bolin had died when That Damn Firebender killed their parents.
>> No. 105343
>>105340
>You're supposed to make the audience feel like this is a person that is like them. Since most people aren't virtuous and heroic demigods with magical kung fu, you tend to do that by making their social relationships mirror the audience's own, and giving them problems that the audience has to go through themselves.
I didn't watch Avatar the Last Airbender for the romance and that's not what Korra was sold to me as; but it's all I've been getting. That's the source of my frustration with the idea of this having all been a ruse to keep watching with the hope that eventually they would settle this stupid bullshit and get back to the philosophy of life and supernatural chop-socky that I'm actually here for.
>> No. 105344
>>105343
>I didn't watch Avatar the Last Airbender for the romance and that's not what Korra was sold to me as; but it's all I've been getting.
Not the romance perhaps, but I suspect Aang's (platonic) relationships with the Gaang, and Zuko's relationships with his Uncle, sister and father were a bigger part of what brought you in than whether or not Aang could actually beat the villain, which you already knew the answer to on day one.
>> No. 105345
>>105343
>but it's all I've been getting.

Then you're using TiVo VERY wrong, because it's apparently only recording a minute or two of every episode.
>> No. 105346
>>105344
That doesn't work either.

The Krew doesn't have that kind of bond for the most part, it could change in time but as of now the teenage members of the Krew (not Korra) are bringing the group down.
>> No. 105347
>>105343
>but it's all I've been getting.

Then you're using TiVo VERY wrong, because it's apparently only recording a minute or two of every episode.
>> No. 105348
>>105344
You're correct in that assumption; now maybe if Korra actually had conversations with a character who isn't Mako there would be some of that in this show because as 100 other people have said I simply do not believe in the genuineness of their physical and emotional intimacy.
>> No. 105349
>>105346
Mako is the only one that doesn't do anything for me. Bolin is entertaining, and Asami's story actually has emotional resonance. Mako's just kind of "blah."
>> No. 105350
>>105342
>>I swear, some of you guys act like the show is 20 minutes of "romance stuff" and 5 minutes of action.

This is the show that took an entire episode out of its 12 episode run dedicated completely to a ham-fisted love triangle plot between Korra and the two brothers wherein the name of the primary antagonist of the show was not brought up or seen at all during the plot of said episode.

True, Korra is primarily an action show, but it weighs its drama and tension heavily on romance. We're clearly supposed to be invested in the longing Korra has for Mako and vice versa... but we're not
>> No. 105352
File 13401552148.png - (60.08KB , 178x198 , korenu lolu.png )
105352
>>105343
I swear, people are focusing WAAAAYYY too much on the romance aspects of the show when it's only registering as a relative blip in comparison to everything else
I don't like how it's been handled either, but it's a minor enough aspect of the series and I'm not much of a shipperfag in the first place so I wouldn't pray for the whole show to be cancelled over a romance misfire like some folks were squawking about after episode 9, sheesh
I seriously hope those folks are trolling because if you hinge your ability to like shows purely on their shipping aspects then you REALLY need to be reevaluating your priorities, sheesh
>> No. 105353
>>105350
I haven't really noticed that, but then I'm not on a Crusade against romance subplots and therefore looking for reasons to be angry, either.
>> No. 105354
>>105352
It's not the only badly written part of the show, but it is a noticable chunk of it.
>> No. 105356
>>105333
>>105334

Its basically a Damned If They Do, Damned If They Don't scenario by this point.

If Korra and Mako do get together in episode 12: whoop de doo. Their hallow and base-less attraction to each other finally comes to fruition. They kiss and embrace as the music swells dramatically in the background while the audience at home rolls their eyes and feels nothing because their romance has been written so horribly.

If Korra and Mako admit in episode 12 that they honestly don't have any good or logical reason to be with each other romantically and remain friends, we've then wasted so much time watching these two pine for each other (even if we weren't necessarily sure why). Basically, a good 1/3 of the season would be reduced to a red herring love story that ultimately did nothing to service the overarching plot or positively grow the characters. True, we wouldn't have to watch Korra and Mako's passionless, meaningless kissing scene... but we'd be left with the knowledge that so much of Book Air had been just that: nothing but thin air.
>> No. 105357
>>105353
How can you miss it when they keep refusing to settle it and bring it back up every single episode like we're supposed to give a shit which of these teens is fucking which? That is the least interesting thing on earth.
>> No. 105358
File 134015559290.jpg - (1.54MB , 1000x3375 , accursed mako master of disguise.jpg )
105358
>>105348
>now maybe if Korra actually had conversations with a character who isn't Mako

ACCURSED MAKO, MASTER OF DISGUISE!

Make up your fucking mind guys. One minute it's "they don't talk enough for this relationship to be believable" then it's "she only ever talks to him".
>> No. 105359
>>105357
I guess because I'm watching a show about kung fu wizards fighting revolutionaries and am not so naive as to think that you are going to watch a story about teenagers where everyone's not trying to fuck everyone else, so I don't get offended by it the way you do.
>> No. 105360
>>105358
Why are you trying to reduce everyone that happens to disagree with you to a single person so that you can't defeat them all by mocking thier argument?
>> No. 105361
File 134015622154.png - (398.53KB , 445x1500 , 1340138018612.png )
105361
>> No. 105362
>>105356
but the time they've spent actually pining over each other hasn't really been that much...
>> No. 105363
>>105362
This series is going to clock in at roughly 248 minutes minus opening and closing credits. Of those, I estimate we've spent at least 75-100 minutes on bullshit relationship relationship tension that exists purely for its own sake.
>> No. 105364
>>105350
>One whole episode out of 12 was largely about her feelings for the boys!

Meanwhile Eleven whole episodes out of 12... weren't.

>True, Korra is primarily an action show

You say that like it's some minor detail. Try this way:

"True some of the drama and tension are related to romance, but it's primarily an action show."

Fucking hell dude, the latest episode had the city falling to Amon, Tenzin's son being born, several giant fight scenes, the arrival of the Fire Nation fleet, Lin being depowered, and you're going "pssh, yeah, I guess shit like that happened, but so what? There's stuff going on between Korra, Mako, and Asami!"

You're only ruining things for yourself with your tunnel vision at this point.
>> No. 105366
>>105363
I estimate two minutes. See? It's easy to pull numbers out of thin air!
>> No. 105367
>>105363
I would estimate it to be somewhere closer to about....ten. Ten minutes devoted to relationship stuff. Are you counting any moment that Mako is onscreen as shipping or something? Because I'd kind of be surprised if he'll have even been on for 75-100 minutes of the whole series.
>> No. 105369
>>105340
>>The goal of any writer who knows what he's doing is to make the audience identify with what the characters are going through. Most people haven't fought terrorists, so that's not something they can immediately identify with. We can empathize with the fact that "Well, terrorists suck when they're not fighting corrupt regimes," but we don't identify with it unless we've actually fought in a war.

But... no. We don't need to identify with characters, or at least not all the time. What we need is to read/watch stories with well written, consistent characters who follow interesting and logical paths within the plot. It doesn't matter if these characters are like us, the viewer, or do things directly analogous with what the viewer experiences in our day to day lives.
>> No. 105370
>>105367
I'm counting all of the Asami/Mako stuff, episode 5, a fair bit of episode six, a fair bit of episodes 8 and 9, and episode ten speaks for itself opening and closing on the shit like it's what we're supposed to be paying attention to.
>> No. 105372
>>105363
>This series is going to clock in at roughly 248 minutes minus opening and closing credits. Of those, I estimate we've spent at least 75-100 minutes on bullshit relationship relationship tension that exists purely for its own sake.

Congratulations on an amazing accomplishment! You are now OFFICIALLY as retarded and delusional as the Zutarans were at their worst! Apparently every scene where Mako even showed up in the background counts as romance between him and Korra.

Cor blimey you're nuts.
>> No. 105373
>>105361
Pretty much.
>> No. 105374
>>105370
>and episode ten speaks for itself opening and closing on the shit like it's what we're supposed to be paying attention to.

see

>>105364
>Fucking hell dude, the latest episode had the city falling to Amon, Tenzin's son being born, several giant fight scenes, the arrival of the Fire Nation fleet, Lin being depowered, and you're going "pssh, yeah, I guess shit like that happened, but so what? There's stuff going on between Korra, Mako, and Asami!" You're only ruining things for yourself with your tunnel vision at this point.

I'll agree episode ten speaks for itself.

But you seem to be speaking a very different language. Gibberish, mostly.
>> No. 105375
>>105372
Zutarians were inventing something that didn't exist out of whole cloth. I'm just running the stopwatch.
>> No. 105376
>>105374
The romantic nonsense cheapens all of that for me; as does the generally hackneyed writing.
>> No. 105377
shut the fuck up about how much minutes exactly was dedicated to relationship problems.

we all agree it could have been handled better and it made mako look like a douche and kept asami on the periphery of the group so the team dynamic is stilted. we had halfway intelligent discussions about it earlier in this thread. we are not having intelligent discussions now, we are having dumbass arguing.

this thread was really good and civil considering what its topic is, stop ruining it
>> No. 105378
>>105375
>I'm just running the stopwatch.

No dude, you're actually not. You have not used a stopwatch. You have pulled numbers out of thin air, and presented them as a fact. You're making shit up to try and prove your point, and ignoring LOTS of things that prove you wrong. You're as delusional as a Zutaran.

>>105376
>The romantic nonsense cheapens all of that for me

No, you cheapened it for yourself. At this point it's safe to say that if Mako, Korra, Bolin, or Asami so much as look at one another you're unable to see the rest of the episode because your vision has turned red with rage. You're fucking yourself over and convincing yourself that one part of the show is the entire show. And none of us has an ounce of sympathy for you.
>> No. 105379
>>105369
It does for most people. Too much time on the internet can blind nerds to the fact that most people don't find masturbatory worldbuilding exercises to be good writing.

Mostly because it's not. It's just one nerd saying to another "Look how smart I am!" Good writing isn't about showing off how smart you are, it's about making us care about other people. Worldbuilding that doesn't make us care more about the characters is just indulging the author's ego.
>> No. 105380
>>105379

>Worldbuilding that doesn't make us care more about the characters is just indulging the author's ego.

More often than not the world IS a character.

Whether you enjoy works that focus on it or not is simply a matter of opinion.
>> No. 105383
>>105380
"The world is a character" is something you say when you're better at tabulating data than you are at writing people. Or when you think "good at writing" means "knows a lot of words and how to spell them."
>> No. 105388
>>105379
So tell me Mac, are you actually enjoying the character writing in Legend of Korra?
>> No. 105389
>>105383

That is your opinion, and I respect it.

I simply don't agree with it.
>> No. 105392
>>105389
Nor do I. Several books I love spend a fair amount of time worldbuilding. It's no reason to let the rest of your cast be bland, but time spent on developing the setting is not wasted by any means.
>> No. 105396
>>105389
>>105392
Thirding this.
>> No. 105397
This thread is bad, and you should feel bad.
>> No. 105413
A lot of it, for me anyways, comes down to Republic City. Let's give that city some soul and spice!

Remember how in episode 8, the Krew was eating rice balls? It'd be nice to have a scene where they bought the rice balls and had some character interaction moments within the shop. More scenes of various places and peoples within the city please.
>> No. 105415
Trying to get things back on track...

-Toza's influence in the brothers wasn't mentioned in the series. I think it should get a quick mention. The image of brothers being both poor yet still popular/famous seems too incompatible, and this contradiction should get a handwave.

-The air acylotes were not explained in the series, and a lot of people were asking "wait, where did all these airbenders come from?". So these acolytes should be briefly mentioned and explained. Are they just workforce, and did Tenzin hire them for temple tasks? Or are they people who have airbender heritage and they want to get in touch with their roots? Maybe they're an air nomad fan club? Do they believe that if they stick around, they'll be able to learn airbending one day? Or do they think it's an impossibility, but they hope that in such a spiritual environment, their children might be born as airbenders? Or are they Tenzin's harem for repopulating the air nomads?
Whoever these people are, I think it should get addressed. Aang being the last surviving air nomad was an important fact in the last series, so it'd be nice to explain who these people are. The audience should be able to gather all relevant information from the series itself.

-Sky bisons. So many people asking "but wasn't Appa the last of his kind?". The reappearance of sky bisons was explained in the supplementary material, but I'd prefer it being mentioned in-series as well. A short discussion about all the adventures that avatar Aang went on to have, and how he discovered a herd of bisons that had been hiding somewhere remote for decades. Jinora liked stories, so she could mention it while requesting more stories.

-Character bios described Bolin to "always have a lady on his arm" and he "enjoyed all the attention from his girl fans", but he was also said to be "still a novice in the world of dating". I assume this means that he had an easy time approaching girls, but they soon enough lost their interest in him, and he had to move on to the next girl. Like, he could easily get in friendly terms with girls, but he wasn't able to take the relationship to the next level. Similar case as his interactions with Korra; she likes him, but not romantically.
Actually this is not a part that particularly needs any rewriting IMO. Bolin seems to be facing a problem that's common for people who are trying to find a romantic partner; it's easy enough to find nice people, but really hard to find nice people who are romantically interested in you. So, I mostly just tried to make sense out of the odd contradictions between the character bios. We're trying to rely on those bios, and it's a bit tough when different bios seem to be stating kinda different things.

-Again, character bios say that Korra is the first person to ever have tamed a polarbear dog, and Naga is the first and only tame polarbear dog in the world. So why doesn't anyone in-series say "but wtf, how on earth did you tame that thing" or "I didn't know it's even possible to tame this species". If Naga really is completely unique, I would expect people to address it.
Even though it's not mentioned in-series, this whole thing about Naga being the first tamed polarbear dog rubs me the wrong way. It reminds me a bit too much of some deviantArt OCs. I would have an easier time accepting the whole thing if taming this species was known to be possible, but tame polarbear dogs were a rarity because taming them was an extremely difficult task. But the idea of Naga being the only one of her kind in the whole world history? Absolutely nobody ever thought of taming this type of critter before Korra? Eh.

-Trolling about Zuko's mom. Funny or annoying little scene? I couldn't make up my mind on this.
>> No. 105418
>>Trolling about Zuko's mom. Funny or annoying little scene? I couldn't make up my mind on this.

It felt just a smidge too meta... But it wasn't the interruption per say, it was the fact that she was called "Zuko's Mom". That makes the exchange feel like the creator's are directly talking to the audience, because they know that's how we address the character of Ursa in general fan conversation. But, this young airbender, in the context of this world and what she's been researching should have said something like "What happened to Queen Ursa?" or "What happened to the mother of the now past Emperor Zuko?"

That's just my opinion though. Anywho...

>>Toza's influence in the brothers wasn't mentioned in the series. I think it should get a quick mention.

I agree. Should he have been a recurring side character as well? Maybe. But I think at least we should have him and his actions/influence as related to the brothers expanded on more. You're right on the nose with that.
>> No. 105419
>-Trolling about Zuko's mom. Funny or annoying little scene? I couldn't make up my mind on this.
Even in the series premiere they couldn't go 10 minutes without jabbing the people who had dared question their artistic vision with a prod and mocking us for caring about a character they obviously never put more thought into than her use for the plot. They're obviously habitual at this now that they've made Asami a total afterthought as well. They don't care and they think we're silly for caring about these characters who aren't the Avatar and his/her fucktoy.
>> No. 105420
>>105418
Another alternative when it comes to Toza is that he's too minor character to really need a role or screentime, and the brothers could simply have saved some money on their own in order to take part in the pro-bending tournament. Like, they wanted out of the life of crime, so they made an effort of their own initiative instead of getting saved by someone else. I think either approach could work, but leaving Toza out could help making things more tightly focused on the main protagonists.
>> No. 105422
Interesting sidenote, apparently we'll be getting a "creator's cut" of Korra airing throughout July, maybe that will clear up some of these issues.
>> No. 105423
>>105419
>Even in the series premiere they couldn't go 10 minutes without jabbing the people who had dared question their artistic vision with a prod and mocking us for caring about a character they obviously never put more thought into than her use for the plot.

snerk. I'm sorry, but I'm positive you've got that utterly backwards. Yeah they trolled. Yeah they wanted to frustrate the people that want to know. But I don't think it's a "fuck you" to people curious. They cut the "what happened to her" scene in the original series, they reminded us that the question was never answered in this. They're keeping the question alive to use it as a hook for doing something else with the Aang-era characters. Maybe a made-for-tv movie, maybe a comic mini, I don't know and they probably don't either right now. But to me it looks like they're deliberately keeping the question frustratingly unanswered to keep the door to more stories open just a crack.
>> No. 105426
File 134018837241.jpg - (46.99KB , 376x634 , JinoraRepublicCityGame.jpg )
105426
>>105423
I thought the way Ursa was handled in AtLA wasn't very smart. First it's unclear and seems she might've died, but then we find out she's alive (which felt a bit of a cop-out to me back then), and they leave a sequel hook right at the end. But then they never got to do a standalone movie or a comic dealing with it. Now at this point it's been so much time that people have formed their own expectations and it'll be difficult to live up to them, in case they ever manage to do a movie/comic about it.

Also, if anyone's curious on the official word, there's this:
>http://www.avatarspirit.net/interviews.php?id=24
>Gene Luen Yang: As for Ursa, that was the first question I asked when I got on the phone with Mike and Bryan! Ultimately, what Ursa's absence means to Zuko is more important than what actually happened to her. Mike and Bryan pointed that out to me. They're right, of course. But that's not to say we won't eventually find out the specifics.

Either way, Ursa is pretty irrelevant to LoK and I'm talking off-topic matters. To make this post worthwhile and a little more constructive, here's a suggestion: in the scene Jinora asks about Zuko's mom, she could instead be asking Katara to tell the story of avatar Aang finding the herd of sky bisons and how they were saved from the extinction. Ikki could interrupt again because we don't need the full story; just some kind of explanation of where the bisons came from. If you only watch AtLA and LoK and never check out the character bios online, the bisons appear like a huge gaping plothole. So how about instead of using that scene for teasing the fans, Jinora explained to the audience a tidbit of plot-relevant information that took place between the two series.
>> No. 105427
>>105415
I think who exactly the air acolytes are will be addressed in The Promise, as well as where the new sky bison herds came from. Jinora would probably know these stories already because she sees the acolytes and bison in every day life and it was her grandfather who found them.

She may also be familiar enough with Zuko to call him by name and young enough to address him improperly. He was a friend of her grandparents and his daughter may be her aunt, if it's true that Bumi married her.

As for your gripes about Bolin, I don't think he's contradictory at all. what I got out of it was that he's an amicable flirt, girls like him and he likes girls, but he isn't a swinger. He's inexperienced with real dating because he hadn't found someone he thought could be his forever girl before, he's just had a bunch of what amounts to female friends who admire his sweet biceps. I think he's actually pretty good at the whole wooing people thing; the problem didn't lie with anything he did or didn't do, it's just that Korra never saw him as more than a friend even though he made his feelings pretty clear at the start. "unused to dating" seems to mean more like "unused to having your heart broken." We saw these facets of his personality early on--his first appearance, Mako's "crazy fangirls" line, his conversation with Mako about dating Korra--and I don't think anything he's done or said contradicts it? Of course he's not going to have bitches hanging off his arms 24/7 especially when he is trying to show Korra that she's his number one lady.
>> No. 105431
>>105427
The point is that the series should be able to stand on its own feet, and the episodes themselves need to offer all the relevant information to the viewer. Most people in the audience just watch TV and what they see is this: first there's only Appa left and sky bisons are going extinct, but suddenly there are lots of sky bisons around for no reason. This looks like a plothole to them. It's not reasonable to expect people to go to the internet and do research in order to understand a TV show.
It's alright for spinoff comics to tell us sidestories of things that are unimportant yet interesting. But plot-important things need to be inside the actual series instead of being hidden in some random spinoff material (they formed for instance the Zuko/Mai romance in the comics, and IMO it was a bad choice).

Also, the complaint wasn't about how Bolin's been handled in the series; it concerned character descriptions of him. Before you can make a series, you have to have some kind of short descriptions of your main cast so that you can build a plot from the characters. Bolin's descriptions on different online sources gave kinda different interpretations, and it confused people before the series aired. So I discussed that issue to actually defend Bolin's character.
He's been handled consistently and well enough in the series, and he's been a very likable guy. The only problem I see is that he's pure comic relief and kinda lacking any depth or a serious angle. Bolin's angsting about the kiss was made to appear very comedic, and his feelings for Korra haven't been a plotpoint afterwards. He's just the funny guy who doesn't get to have serious scenes.
>> No. 105439
File 134021096622.png - (332.27KB , 1143x506 , your_welcome.png )
105439
After reading most of this thread, I remembered that I did this for /co/ a while ago.

Seems relevant.
>> No. 105453
>>105439
Make it a girl and lose the pro-bending and it sells. (Mako and Bolin are superfluous in every way).
>> No. 105456
>>105431
Yeah, the problem is that too much of the information about the current universe is "All In The Manual" even though it could easily be established with a few seconds or lines of screentime.
>> No. 105462
>>105439
Could be done with any character. It wouldn't be hard to merge Sokka and Katara.
>> No. 105469
>>105439
Earlier on in the thread we discussed merging some characters (Mako+Bolin), removing some others (Asami), or adding new team members (Tahno). But after pondering different ideas, it seems like mostly everyone feels it would be best to keep the Krew intact. Their characters and personalities don't really need any changes as long as some little details are tweaked. If Asami meets Korra first, and if Mako and Bolin have somewhat stronger criminal ties than in canon, the rest kinda writes itself; the majority of our changes can come from those tweaks. The characters are still the same and they go through mostly the same events as in the series, but the circumstances and team dynamics are slightly different, which means the characters react differently. A lot of the team friction and awkwardness can be written out that way.

These characters have a lot of potential and none of them is a lost cause. Initially I thought that Asami had nothing going on for her, and making her interesting without fundamentally changing her character would be an impossible task. But people proved me wrong; everyone actually came up with really good ideas concerning Asami. So yeah, she can be good if she's put into interesting situations, and the bending brothers can be equally good characters as well.
>> No. 105506
>>105423
This. By now it's blatant that they're leaving the Ursa thing unanswered in the hope of going back and doing something with it.

It certainly wouldn't be enough for a miniseries or movie on its own, but as a part of some larger story it'd provide a good thread linking old and new stuff.
>> No. 105586
A shame the thread isn't bumping, but I'll post this essay here:
http://overlithe.livejournal.com/185772.html

The author argues that without developing the conflict, the show has no real moral underpinning other than "having magic powers is awesome and I want to keep them". I don't understand all her references, but the stuff about how bloodbending was presented made a lot of sense to me.
>> No. 105592
I like this thread and the vast majority of people posting in it. Unfortunately some idiot derailed it with NUHHH THIS SHOW IS NOTHING BUT ROMANCE NUHHH STOPWATCHES rerailed it pretty badly and led to its premature death. Once it falls off the page I would volunteer to make a second thread (and call it an AU thread instead of a rewrite thread to ward off the people who think it is a thread for for petty bitching about the series) and make a pastebin with all the ideas and points of discussion in this thread that I thought were cool but do you guys want to continue this?

I'm not OP but I am a secret drawfag. Maybe if we hammered out some more concrete scenes we could actually do something with them.
>> No. 105614
>>105592
OP here. I'm a drawfag as well, and I've been kinda itching to draw a bunch of scenes people have come up with. You guys are seriously talented and you've come up with some damn great, drawing-worthy ideas. Anyway, if people still feel like talking this stuff, I'd actually prefer if it's possible to continue the discussion while the thread remains on autosage. I'm not very fond of the chain-thread phenomenon where people feel the need to make a new thread right after the old one hits bumplimit. I'd rather wait for 404 before making a new thread, and I'd prefer not to add a number on the new thread. And yeah, it should definitely be renamed; at this point this has become a discussion of a fanfiction AU, so the thread title should make it clear.

When I started this thread, I thought everyone would have their own ideas and directions of where they wished the series to go. But it turned out that we've actually formed a consensus on most issues and a surprisingly cohesive basis that could be used for a single AU story. If we can still keep discussing in this thread, I've been thinking that we could wait until after the finale. Once the finale is done and we've discussed our opinions, and once we've got an idea of the full plot outline, we could create a pastebin of this AU. Short episode descriptions, and some bulletpoints to explain some things that are cut/added in the story. I was thinking of maybe posting the new pastebin on 4chan's /co/. They're more active and harsher than plus4chan, so I thought we could let them say whether our project stinks or if they want to butt in and be creative.

Also, a couple of thoughts on how to serious up Bolin a little:

There could be some kind of scene where metalbender cops realize they keep getting tazed by the equalists. Bolin could be the one to voice a "duh, why didn't we think of that" kind of simple idea. Like, don't just let them get close to you with their shock sticks; there's earth right beneath your feet, so use it to your advantage. Build earth barriers to halt an enemy, or submerge them into the ground up to their waist. Some simple but effective tactic instead of using the metal cables and getting electrocuted again. Maybe metalbender cops have grown so accustomed to using their cables in every situation that they keep forgetting to use more basic forms of earthbending, and Bolin could remind them of those. Bonus points if some random metalbender dismissed Bolin earlier as a petty criminal. Or maybe criticised how nerfed pro-bending is, and expressed skepticism on Bolin's bending skills.

I've seen more than one piece of fan art where Lin starts mentoring Bolin on metalbending. Maybe this idea could be worth integrating as well? It doesn't need a "Sokka's master" kind of focus episode, but a couple of scenes. Once Lin's left the police, she figures she needs her allies to be as competent as possible, and there's no harm done in at least trying to teach Bolin. It could be a running gag that Bolin tries but fails to do metalbending throughout remaining episodes. But in the finale, during a crucial moment, he could finally manage to metalbend something small but plot-important. Maybe bend open some door's lock, or something like that.
>> No. 105709
>>105614
The thing is, if a thread stops bumping and falls off the first page, people stop checking it. It's pretty much a death sentence. While it's cleaner to keep everything in one thread, it's not really feasible in an imageboard environment.
>> No. 105903
how how about that finale guys
>> No. 105914
People in another thread said that bumplimit is 500 now, so apparently this thread will continue to live after all. Shame the thread title can't be edited, though.

>>105903
My expectations were pretty low, but even then the finale managed to disappoint me. There was just so much stuff crammed into the two episodes, and close to the ending, it felt like everything was happening way too fast and suddenly. I'm gonna need to rewatch the finale a couple more times before I can say anything more in-depth about it. I'll just post some short story notes that are on my mind right now:

-spiritual stuff was still sadly missing
-I'm not sure if Iroh or Bumi had any kind of purpose at the end of the day (except for doing a certain kind of fanservice)
-I'm glad Asami didn't become so jealous due to the romance drama that she'd turn equalist, but on the other hand, this also made me feel like her character was stagnant and everything involving her was about nothing. Earlier she chose her friends over her father, and now she did the same thing again. Neither Hiroshi nor Asami re-evaluated their stances or changed as people. I thought one of them would have doubts or temptation, and one of them would reconsider their loyalties, but no.
>> No. 105919
A good rant

http://lemuffinmistress.tumblr.com/post/25726471987/the-legend-of-korra-finale

>Yes, Korra was given her bending back. She was totally robbed of the chance to make herself stronger and to actually make a connection with the spiritual realm. We didn’t see her attempting to make that connection. And writers? It’s not being at your lowest point that makes you stronger. It’s climbing your way out of your lowest point. It’s healing that makes you stronger.
>> No. 105923
>>105919

>It’s not being at your lowest point that makes you stronger
But that's not what Aang said at all.
>> No. 105967
Some real nice ideas here, hard to say which ones i like the most, im not good at this stuff myself but i'll try to contribute.

>Korra meets Asami early and they become bros like said, Korra and Asami decides to try vigilantism and one evening notices Bolin attempting to flee the police and catches him with ease.
>It turns Bolin is just street performer with Pabu, albeit still technically a "criminal" due lacking a permit, although a bender he doesn't have any combat experience and is clearly a poor one who doesn't use it even a sliver in his line of "work".
>He notes that they are entirely out in the wrong part of the town for "Crime hunting" and offers to join them with his "information network" if they let him go.
>Mako is a booker for pro-bending like some other people suggested, he does not that he did papers in canon, To give emphasis that he isn't irredeemable villain he gets a scene where he declines a more "active" well-paying mob job and his boss says it is too bad he is such a softie when he is so talented. (Optional: Have it implied Mako learned his Lightning Bending from/by imitating Zolt.)
>Korras first Pro-Bending battle is against the Wolfbats, when her team wins (despite Makos plan to have her lose) Tahno gets pissed off at Mako and later finds and bullies Bolin in proxy-revenge, Tenzin made a "You know it is all fake right" remark about pro-bending but upon seeing Korra win he gets convinced it is the real deal.
>Asami doesn't "get" why losing bending is so horrifying, considers herself "neutral" and points out potential job advantages with, using earthbending miners that Future Industries employ as a example, what with them allowing to mine large amounts of metal needed for Satomobiles, as well as noting she doubts Amon will debend everyone since he just gone after criminals so far and benders do fill some niche roles that helped the town prosper.
>ADVENTURE!
>Bolin is kidnapped, although Korra is peeved at Mako, she ends up seeing the softer side of him while searching together and starts to feel conflicted about her feelings for him.
>To celebrate getting Bolin back Asami takes Korra and Bolin to the Pro-bending final, Meanwhile Mako sees that the triads have lost their influence before being coerced to rig one last match before jumping ship, The Pro-bending Finals.
>The Wolfbats win due the rig and Amon falls down and exposes the whole shebang, making it clear he will debend everyone involved, including the judges and Mako.
>Mako manages to avoid capture and flees backstage, it appears that he is about to get caught when Bolin comes and rather ineffectually tries to attack the Chi-blockers to protect his bro, but is captured and taken to Amon and debended in Makos place.
>Post-Probending Final, Mako can't afford rent and he and his now obviously depressed brother are now homeless, Asami hears about this and decides to take them in out of guilt of being the one who brought Bolin there, Bolins depression making her realize that even if it wasn't much or even useful bending is still a aspect of a person, Bolin has a pity party with Tahno.
>Upon seeing Asami betraying her father for her friends and benders Bolin decides to try and cheer up and take action to try and prevent other people suffering his fate.

Im generally hoping for something like.
>Use Bolin to see how the "Average" untrained bender is, compared to the PRODEGIES EVERYWHERE, and use to show the "spiritual backlash", possibly see how the modern city could discourage use of bending(how is he gonna throw chunks of the ground without getting vandalism fees?)
>Give Makos Lightning bending a explaination, make it clear early that he is very talented, but still stunted in his opportunities, despite, or maybe even due that.
>Make fans not go all "She gonna betray them any second now" regarding Asami, while still using her as a viewpoint for "how do nonbenders live." having her originally on the fence regarding equalists also gives more value to the time she spent with her friends.

But since Bolin isn't exactly the MVP in combat already, making him weaker not to mention debending him just makes the problem worse.

My ideas are probably shit, but it feels nice to air them.
>> No. 105973
One little change that could have fixed a lot of problems would have been Asami hitting Bolin with her scooter instead of Mako.
>> No. 105984
>>105973
YES. Gives Bolin more to do, cuts out most of the love triangle shenanigans, AND allows the story to basically play out the same.
>> No. 106033
>>105967
I can pretty much agree with all of this because in general, the series needed more moments of real friendship, bonding, connection and actual romance, not this oh-we're-in-love-cause-we-say-so bullcrap.

As is, the characters are all really flat and have no real dynamic between any of them. The only noticeable one is the love triangle and pretty much everyone hated that.
>> No. 106062
>>105967
Hey, no worries about anything, that's what this thread is for; to post thoughts on which parts of the plot felt a bit weak, and come up with ideas on how they could've been improved. I think you've got some nice thoughts there. I particularly like the detail that Mako could've learned lightningbending from Zolt. I don't remember seeing that concept expressed before, and IMO it's a neat idea.

I'm gonna have to hold back from the finale for a little while because there was so much stuff to talk about in it, but I got earlier a bunch of thoughts on the matter of Hiroshi Sato. I was waiting to see if the finale would have any important revelations about the Satos, but now that the season is done, I feel like I can post about those two.

We've been talking a lot about going with Korra/Asami BFFs angle. I've been thinking that this dynamic has gotta change a lot of that episode where Korra accuses Hiroshi of being an equalist.
That episode had two parts that bothered me:

-How come the topic of the bender vs. non-bender tensions never came up between the Satos? How come Hiroshi never warned Asami against dating a bender, for instance? Why didn't he ever try to gently nudge Asami into hating benders as well? It's really difficult to keep that kind of intense hatred as a secret from your own family. You will occasionally make tiny little slips that hint at your true beliefs.

-Korra was absolutely certain that she's right about Sato being an equalist. She kept insisting even after it seemed there was absolutely no evidence against Hiroshi. Korra was in fact so pig-headed that it threatened to end her friendship with Mako... again. Between the shipping episode and this one, Korra's friendships appear really fragile. It was more like a coincidence that Korra turned out to be right about Hiroshi. Even then, she had been acting really inconsiderate, and it felt awkward that everyone just forgave her.

I'd like it if previous episodes established two things: first, Asami and Hiroshi should have more shared screentime to show that they're very close, and secondly, Hiroshi could every now and then slip up with his facade. Let's assume we're going with the scenario where the brothers have stronger ties to criminals, Mako/Korra is happening, and Asami/Mako/Korra (if used at all) is only a short subplot concerning jealousy and misunderstandings. In such a case, Hiroshi could find out about Asami and Korra's friendship having a slight hiccups during the shipping episode. He could take this opportunity to try to advise Asami not to spend time with Korra. He could try to come up with any crap, like telling Asami that Korra's the avatar, she's a larger-than-life institution with no time for earthly concerns, and Asami shouldn't count on having such a high-and-mighty icon as a dependable friend. Asami would retort like "what? Korra's not some kind of magical, mystical being full of wisdom; she's just Korra". Hiroshi sees that Asami has made up her mind, so he doesn't try convincing Asami after that.

When Hiroshi finds out about Mako having triad connections, he's seriously upset. He'd try to say that apparently Korra's got some pretty shifty friends, and it'd be best if Asami stayed away from these people. Asami's upset about Mako's triad past too, but she doesn't like her father telling her how to think or act either, so she gets pissed off. Again, Hiroshi gives up... but now that he knows Mako's background, he can't help acting slightly snippy towards him every now and then. Even better if this is a rewrite where Hiroshi's wife was killed by a mob hit, maybe due to being in an interracial marriage and a "bloodtraitor" as suggested here: >>104744

Basically, Hiroshi could get some nice family moments shared with Asami to show they care for one another, but he'd also get foreshadowing moments where he speaks against Korra & co. He tries to come off as a concerned, overly-protective parent (which he would be, so he doesn't really have to pull an act here). But in the end his goal is to keep Asami away from the avatar and other benders. Korra represents everything he hates, after all. He also knows that the equalists have their plans against the avatar and he doesn't want Asami dragged into that; he doesn't want her to be anywhere near Korra when shit hits the fan.

(And my opinion on why Hiroshi failed to raise Asami into hating benders: Asami's lived all her life in a multicultural situation and she had many bender friends as a kid. She learned that benders are just normal people, bending has a lot of constructive purposes, and pro-bending is really freaking cool too. Bending per se is not a bad thing, and the real problem is people deciding to abuse their powers. So, when Hiroshi would try to speak out against benders, Asami would become protective of her bender friends and she'd lash out in anger. Soon enough Hiroshi realized he's not gonna convince Asami, so he started avoiding the topic and keeping his beliefs secret; he loves his daughter a lot and doesn't want to keep having arguments with her.)

The episode with Sato confrontation would start with Korra overhearing Hiroshi saying some ambiguously worded but pretty ominous stuff. Then she thinks back to some past events and how Hiroshi would every now and then act in a slightly hostile manner. She figures that there is enough reason to be suspicious. But since she's friends with Asami, she hesitates about accusing Hiroshi and feels terrible about this.

Korra talks with Tenzin and Lin. They decide to investigate Sato's company, and their press release says it's due to "an anonymous tip". While Lin and Korra are investigating, Asami rants to Korra about how she'd like to punch the cowardly bastard who slandered her father like that. Korra's acting abnormally timid and nervous.

They find no evidence. It accidentally slips out that Korra was the one whose suspicions started the investigation. Asami is seriously hurt and angry about her friend betraying her like that, and she's upset about Korra not being truthful to her. Mako butts in and says that Asami's being irrational; Korra did the right choice and suspicions like this need to be investigated. They argue a bit. Mako eventually wonders if Asami's reacting so strongly because she might sympathize with the equalists, too. Asami is appalled by this accusation.

Asami sidelines herself like "go ahead and investigate all you want, I'm off. You can come apologise when you're ready, but I don't know if I'm in the mood to forgive". Korra fears for their friendship, but she and others still continue searching for proof.

Asami changes her mind about leaving and decides to sneak after the others. We get the confrontation with Hiroshi and he explains his motivations to Asami. He makes sure to mention the death of Asami's mother, and he reminds Asami of Mako's past as a criminal; he says that Mako is exactly like the people who killed Asami's mother. He badmouths Korra as well, and tries to exploit the fact that Korra and Asami are currently dealing with a major argument. He talks about how much he loves his daughter and only wants her to be safe.

So, Asami's pissed off at Korra and Mako due to their argument, but she's also shocked at her father for being an equalist. Hiroshi offers the glove. Friendship or her family? She eventually takes the glove and electrocutes her father.

In the aftermath, Bolin is freaked out by all the tension in the air while Mako is uncomfortable as fuck. It's Korra's task to approach Asami. Korra is sorry she played a big part in separating Asami from her father like that, and Asami's sorry she got so angry at Korra even though she turned out to be right. They reaffirm their friendship.

Maybe have later on more of just the girls talking. They could go back to Hiroshi's words and just discuss them. They could talk about Asami's mother, for instance. Korra could say something like she never realised how lucky she is to have both her parents around and caring about her, and when she meets them again, she's gonna give them a big hug. She realizes now she can't have been the easiest kid to raise, but her parents were still patient.
...eh, that would be more like a fanfic fluff scene than an episode scene... it would be irrelevant to the main plot. But I'm just very fond of Korra's parents and I want to see their existence acknowledged a little more. It's really nice to have an action hero whose parents are A) normal, B) loving, and also C) not dead.
>> No. 106369
I love a lot of the ideas discussed in this thread, especially the Korra-Asami friendship dynamic. The contrasts between them would be fascinating to explore, and create a lot of genuine tension that isn't related to awkward teen romance. And just imagine all the shenanigans two natural daredevils would get into!

>>104977
Regarding the giant fan idea...

Korra: Bring it on!
(Asami turns on the fan. Korra sets a stance, fighting the wind. She throws a punch, eyes shut and flinching a little - because the fan was totally knocked over by the rock floor lifting up. The power cord snaps and everything.)
Korra: (eyes still shut) That wasn't airbending, was it?
Asami: (apologetic, hesitating) Not... really. (Watches Korra's dissapointment) But I'm sure you'll get it next time!
(Montage of them trying multiple times, Korra failing disastrously. There is desperate flailing involved. Burning things by accident. Etc.)
Then Asami's father appears and gets angry at all the destruction of company property. One could even slip in a hint at this point about his true feelings toward benders, the overprotective father angle, etc.

Yes. I like this (friend)ship.

Anyway, here's my wishlist/brainstorm ideas in no particular order:

-Korra seems to identify more strongly with firebending than almost any other kind of bending - it often seems like her go-to element in fights despite her being water tribe, and it fits with her raw power approach. Use this as a way for her to legitimately bond with Mako! Maybe he's a skilled firebender with interesting techniques her masters didn't know, and she wants to learn more about the subtle side of firebending, because she tends to just toasts things and call it a day. Which gets her into trouble.

-Let's say Mako is a chip off Jeong Jeong's block. He's very mindful about losing control of his bending, bending when he's angry, etc. because of what happened to his parents. Due to this caution, he can do neat firebending moves that are delicate and require a lot of patience/skill - almost like the spiritual angle that Korra lacks. Hell, one could even make him outright afraid of his bending, or at least, reluctant to fight with it. Then they learn from each other - Korra tries to show him he doesn't have to be afraid, bending is something beautiful, and he shows her control/spirituality.

-Make Asami more interesting. There are a lot of awesome ideas about how to do that in this thread, and I'll just expound a little on those. We know she likes racing and motor vehicles and what have you. All right. So have her die a little inside when Korra trashes an awesome car with her urban bending mishaps ("Do you realize what you've done?! That was a custom-built Thunderbolt Z-7!") It could even be an Equalist vehicle pursuing them! Have her make a car-related reference/joke/metaphor no one understands that falls flat, and mumble "I thought it was funny" to herself. Korra's got skills that are beyond her, so play up her skills that are beyond Korra - as a tinkerer, racer, forward-thinker, and so on.

-The best version of Amon isn't human in my book. He's a vengeful/justice-oriented spirit who has a grudge with the Avatar, or thinks humans are abusing bending and no longer deserve it (which I think plays well with the industrialization/spirituality themes), or both. This makes him more terrifying, and explains how he can take away bending. I mean, was I the only one who totally flipped at him shaking off Tarrlok's blood bending? Like "sweet baby Jesus, what is behind that mask, I'm not even sure it's a person anymore!" If this were a reality, Korra would be in some serious, serious shit she isn't prepared to deal with.
The second best version of him is a non-bender who chi-blocks and thinks he's actually spiritbending. At least make him not a hypocrite, for chrissakes!

-Korra loses her bending part way through the season. Doesn't get it back instantly. She spends at least one episode without bending and experiences vulnerability. Maybe she gets injured by a bender when she's unable to defend herself, and she understands non-bender fears. Realizes that randomly dolled out superpowers are kind of scary.
Then she connects with Aang at a low point, but only learns airbending. At first she's not very good at it, and she must find a way to re-establish her link with the other elements. Aang's spirit can't help her - he even discusses it with her a little, like "I'm sorry Korra, I've only ever taken bending away. You must find the answer on your own."

-I want to see more buildup to Korra's airbending. A quiet moment where we watch Korra "sense" the wind as it blows through her hair, tugs at her clothes, curls around her fingertips. A moment when air saves Korra; maybe she's trapped somewhere dark, underground, and can't earthbend because it's unstable. She feels a current of moving air and that leads her to safety. Basically, I want more buildup like that gorgeous moment when she made it through the spinning panels. I want her to develop an emotional connection with air.
>> No. 106371
>>106369
> So have her die a little inside when Korra trashes an awesome car with her urban bending mishaps ("Do you realize what you've done?! That was a custom-built Thunderbolt Z-7!") It could even be an Equalist vehicle pursuing them! Have her make a car-related reference/joke/metaphor no one understands that falls flat, and mumble "I thought it was funny" to herself. Korra's got skills that are beyond her, so play up her skills that are beyond Korra - as a tinkerer, racer, forward-thinker, and so on.

Korra did crash her car into a pole in one of the later episodes (I forget which one) and she didn't have much of a reaction for some reason. I don't think she's the type to freak out at someone who damaged her car, but a choked-out "it's okay" with a distraught face that says IT'S REALLY NOT OK, THAT CAR IS MY BABY, I AM WEEPING INTERNALLY is perfectly in line.

If there were just a few moments like that that established that she really liked that car would also make its death off a ramp and into a robot in episode 12 feel like an actual sacrifice. If you played up her love for that thing you would probably even get fans mourning its loss.
>> No. 106441
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106441
Guys, now that I've seen the finale. I have come to one rather game-changing realization.

This guy here. Totally the emotional core of the entire story.
Not Korra, not any of her friends, not Tenzin. Noatok's backstory is the first time something actually tugged at my heartstrings for longer than a couple of moments. It actually gave me food for thought. Which is surprising, since it's handed to you in on big exposition dump.
I guess it was only meant to explain Amon's backstory. But since it's the crux of the entire conflict, the central mystery the show has to offer, it's infinitely more important than that.

If I were to rewrite Korra, I'd put more attention to it. Give the whole deal more build-up.
Stuff like:
>You get hints of a Tarrlok-Amon connection early on.
>You involve Tarrlok more in the central story, so that Korra gets a stronger connection to it too.
>Perhaps Tarrlok needs to suspect his brother from the very beginning. Could make things more potent.

I'm also not sure about the end there. It's very heartwrenching and effective, but to completely separate it from Korra and the Krew, does them a huge disservice.
There not even spectators of the central drama in this story, they're just sorta bit-players. Just seems like if the story should involve the Avatar, it should give him more of an investment here.

I'm not sure. Opinions?
>> No. 106448
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106448
>>106441
Even as a big one-episode exposition dump, Noatak and Tarrlok's story hit me hard, especially the boat scene. It would've been goddamn amazing if it were sprinkled bit by bit through the season
>> No. 106450
Overlithe, who's writing I admire a lot, had some idea about a re-write.

http://overlithe.livejournal.com/186671.html
>> No. 106453
I kinda.. didn't get Noatak's whole personality.. Like, I get he wants revenge on everyone for.. whatever flimsy childhood reason, but his whole character after the reveal became very weird to me. We've gone an entire season with this super serious, faceless man who's nothing but a walking idea and movement. As a child he seemed to be a bitter, emotionless husk. He even brought down his own brother and took away his bending without hesitation. Very committed, very meticulous in his planning. But what does he do as soon as everything goes to shit? Kills his second-in-command, goes to get his abused brother and plots to run away cackling like a madman on a speedboat Scarface-style.
Is that really in character with what we've seen of him? IS there even a character that we've seen of him? In the end he just came off as some bratty kid with daddy issues that decided to begin babby's first class revolution to me. Which is a bit lackluster, I guess.

Maybe it's one of those things that I have to watch more than once to fully get, but as of now I'm kinda.. shell-shocked at the whole Noatak side.
>> No. 106460
>>106450
Stopped reading as soon as it got to "yes I know this basically makes Korra a vampire BUT"
>> No. 106463
>>106450
I dunno what he/she did to get your admiration, but that was all fairly retarded.
>> No. 106464
>>106450
This belongs to the fandumb thread.
>> No. 106484
>>106450
> Basically, what happens is that Asami’s mother is still killed by a bender, but in a more realistic/disturbing way than just burglars-gotta-burglar (and actually I want to do something with a bender sibling of hers—Asami’s mum, I mean—because I’m interested in exploring what kind of dynamics you might get with benders and non-benders in the same family).
I think it could do without adding a new character to the mix since it overcomplicates things, but whatever, I'm up for a different method of death (mugging? mistaken identity? those seem more likely to happen than death during a burglary, and fuel more fire against bender gangs, because burglaries are not often tied to gang activity).

> Asami and her dad—well, mostly her dad at first, since Asami is just a kid when it happens—are kinda Alfred Dreyfus-like at this point, in the sense that they did everything right and placed their faith in the system, because if you work hard enough, things are fair, aren’t they, only to then discover that the punchline to that particular joke is that at the end of the day? You’re still just another [expletive]. So they start off by being just Justice For [Her Name—lol, got to come up with something there], all very polite and working within the system, and then they progressively find out that their nice polite letters and petitions and whatnot get them shit.
OK, I like this, it sets up Hiroshi to get increasingly desperate in a clearer way if he was constantly working to find the people who murdered his wife and bring them to justice. I think even if there were papers with her face taped on city walls in the background as Korra explored it that would give a lot of emotional depth to Hiroshi, and it wouldn't be as weird for him to do a complete 180 when he was revealed as an Equalist; we'd already know he's still deep in grief over the loss of his wife, even though it'd been many years, and from Asami we would know it was the triads who took her. Granted it would probably be more obvious that he was working with Amon, but it's not like we weren't expecting it in canon anyway (the actually shocking reveal was that Asami didn't).

> The total failure of the justice system progressively radicalises them, especially Asami, and so they start being more overtly political, to the point that eventually they get together with other people with grievances, start realising that shit is systemic, and it all ends up as a coalition movement that’s not just about non-bender oppression but also about regime change for Republic City and other interconnected issues.
Uh, no. And here comes this tumblr projection bullshit again. It was never shown there was any systemic oppression at all--rather the opposite, with the sympathetic bender characters being streetrats and the nonbender being one of the richest people in the city. The council at the time was composed of benders, but that is untrue historically because Sokka had the main seat. Amon targeted the poor sector--a large portion of Republic City given its gang problems--who wanted someone to blame for their poverty (sorry for godwinning this thread, but this is how Hitler came to power, he took a nation suffering a massive economic crisis after losing WWI and gave them a target to unload their misery on; namely a certain minority group nevertheless considered well-off because they held some prominent positions in media and banks and such) AND people who have been personally affected by the triads and gang-related violence in the city. He manipulated them, lied to them, and fed off their fears and grief. In reality, there was no systemic oppression at all, it was all manufactured.

Honestly, if you actually believed Amon's rhetoric despite being shown evidence to the contrary, all that really says about you is that you can be very easily manipulated when someone frames a conflict in a black-and-white "someone is being oppressed, YOU are being oppressed" way. Even by a cartoon character who is sending out all kinds of "I'm a bad guy don't trust me" signals! That's actually a really bad thing lmao.

> So [Korra]’s not the Avatar here.
I'm out.

However this "saved by a spirit out in the wastes" might actually work for Amon. Tarrlok did say he and Yakone thought Noatok had probably frozen and died after running away. If he HAD entered the spirit world on the verge of death and found one who gave him a new name, a new trick, and the strength to keep going after hearing his story, I think that jives with everything we've seen in canon and satisfies the spirit world involvement wish everyone had. I'm not sure how we could fit that into the canon timeline however.

Perhaps instead of Aang's memories, it's that guilty spirit trying to contact Korra about Yakone and Amon's true identity?
>> No. 106488
>>106484
and ok those are the only strong points here, it just devolves into nonsense the more you read. omfg this person basically rewrote it so that amon is the hero and has nothing in common with his canon self at all? they don't like korra so now she is a bad guy who kills people to sustain her powers? the equalist movement is Right and people (aka lin beifong) are out-of-character antagonists because they want order instead of revolution?

what is this shit, this is horrible
>> No. 106490
>>106488
That's misguided social justice warriors for you. Once their mind equates beinding with privilege there's no turning back.
>> No. 106504
>>106490
I was hearing Springtime for Hitler as I read it. Like, if Amon had been defeated but not unmasked by Korra, and Korra herself was out of Republic City's eye, 30 years later a deranged ex-Equalist would pen this AU fanfiction and try to get it on Republic City's version of Broadway.

Republic City was having trouble, what a sad, sad story
Needed a new leader to restore its former glory
Where, oh, where was he?
Where could that man be?
We looked around and then we found
The man for you and me
...
>> No. 106508
>>106504

Springtime for Amon and the Equalists
Winter for Korra and Friends
>> No. 106522
The fact that there’s so much debate centered around how the audience is suppose to “read” the actions of the Equalists and Amon as justified social rebellion or just a bunch of criminals terrorizing a city, speaks to several issues in the show’s writing and presentation of conflict more than anything else.

Now, I’m not saying every show needs to strive for grey-against-grey, in fact, in the case of Korra I think that was precisely the problem. But, we never see Korra ponder on how or why Amon was able to attract so many followers in the first place, nor do we firmly establish if there is or is not genuine inequality and oppression facing non-benders within the city at all. We never have that moment where Korra or another protagonist clarifies that while the Equalists may have valid complaints; their actions are still dangerous or ill-informed/being explicitly manipulated by Amon and must be stopped. It’s one of the times where I’d say the show could have benefited from a basic black and white “good versus evil” distinction between Korra and her primary organized foes.
ATLOA used the very simply premise of a young boy traveling the globe while training in order to defeat an evil emperor to tell an interesting and complex story of human relations, growth, spirituality. Whereas ATLOK attempts to undertake a fairly complex premise and ultimately fumbles. The show presents a scenario that could have legitimate ethical tension; addressing bender versus non-bender relations as explored through a team of teenagers all of whom represent different tiers and perspectives on society… but ultimately decides to forgo or ignore these arguments.

Furthermore, the ultimate reveal about who Amon really is, his deeper motivations, and how this relates to Yakone and Tarrlok, doesn’t really gel nicely with the concept of any sort of “bending class wars” whatsoever. Because really, the central tension boiled down to two men working through daddy issues while trying to establish who they were and who they weren’t, with Korra and all of Republic City getting caught in the crossfire.

For a re-write suggestion: throw out the “Equalist” angle all together, but keep their design, technology, and abilities. Amon is now not some cult-leader out to rid the world of bending, but rather an extremely brilliant super criminal, simply driven to take control of Republic City. Throw out Noatok’s desire to have everyone being treated fair and equal too, and just have him be a man obsessed with succeeding where his father failed, thus motivated to overtake RC and de-bend the Avatar (the one person he acknowledged as a boy to be more powerful than a mutant bloodbender).

Using his blood-bending (and the border-line psychic powers he’s gained from that), Amon and his army (attracted to Amon due to his natural charisma and his promise of wealth/power) are out to take control of the criminal/impoverished underbelly of Republic City through kidnapping, extortion, media monitoring, and the all important fact that Amon can take peoples’ bending away permanently. Their ultimate goal is to take complete control of the criminal underworld, eventually rising up to control the entirety of the city and turning it into a sort of gangster’s paradise. Tie this in with the new 1920’s aesthetic of ATLOK by having Amon say something like: “The ages of armies and emperors are over. Real power, the right to rule, will come from control over every Big Six and Orchid.”

Yes, Amon can and does still de-bend people, but this is not due to any sort of rhetoric about “cleansing impurity/equalizing”, but rather simply removing the competition and establishing that he is the city’s (and eventually the world’s) most powerful bender. Use this angle to play up and explore Amon’s and Korra’s similarities/differences. Korra is a woman who revels in her strength, loves being topdog, growing stronger, and won’t hesitate to use force to get her way. Like the confrontation between her and Tarrlok in episode 8, have Amon be another villainous mirror for Korra, demonstrating what she could conceivably become like if she doesn’t practice self-discipline, which also ties in nicely to motivate her airbending training.

Speaking of Tarrlok, his actions in-series remain pretty much intact to the original (manipulating the council, creating his task force, attempting to bribe/cajole/kidnap Korra, etc.). However, establish him as another explicit counter-point to Amon and Korra. Tarrlok, now even more so, represents extreme authority and the abuse of power in the name of maintaining social order and control from on high whereas Amon is rapidly growing stronger from the lowerdeck. Tarrlok’s primary motivations are the same as in the original; he wants to be the city’s savior from the realm of law and politics and gain control of it that way (again, because that’s one of the major things daddy couldn’t do). This also might be a good time to do a subtle thematic call back to ATLOA in comparing Yakone/Naotok/Tarrlok to Ozai/Azula/Zuko and all the implications that carries. Like >>106441 said, the audience should learn or be hinted towards the three characters’ relationship sooner to establish more central depth.
Focus more on Korra being caught between these two different but similar types of villains. As a somewhat self-centered and strong willed woman, Korra cannot abide by Tarrlok’s increasingly rigid legislations set on the city, nor does she approve of his attempts to punish and control people. However, she also fears being compared to (or becoming even remotely like) the criminal Amon and the danger he could present to the people/the world. After all, as the Avatar, she has a responsibility to maintain balance and order; this the underlying tension of the show between the heroine and the villains.

Also, I really love what people in this thread have been suggesting about keeping Mako and Bolin’s ties to their criminal background. This could be worked in a lot too with the “Ultimate Mob Boss Amon” thing. Have Mako and Bolin be horrified by Amon’s actions and prospects for conquering Republic City (maybe even have Amon hurt or kill one of the crew they used to run with?), thus motivating them to stop Amon/his men from further destroying their friends/the better elements of the criminal world within the city.
>> No. 106541
All right, here's my monster post about the finale.
I'm gonna separate my thoughts under various subjects, and I'm gonna split this post due to its length. First post will be about miscellaneous things, and after that I'll talk about Korra, her antagonists and the main conflict of the story.


-------------------------------
Minor nitpicky plot grievances
-------------------------------

-The whole city is built on top of vast networks of tunnels. Sato and the equalists have their own tunnels, but so do the city's hobos. It's kind of weird how we keep getting back to secret, secret, secret, secret tunnels.

-Those teeny tiny earthbending discs used in the naval battle. I disliked those discs in pro-bending games and didn't like seeing them again. They didn't seem too useful to me... then again, they can't really carry tons of earth on a ship, so whatever.

-How did Iroh & co just figure out the location of the airbase if they hadn't known about it before? And no one else had noticed the place before?

-Iroh flying around like Ozai felt kinda overpowered. I accepted metalbending and lightning-bending becoming more mainstream (I supposed it's easier to find information about them and thus, more people can learn how to pull them off), and I accepted bloodbending outside full moon (the moon just gives a powerboost, so it might be possible to bloodbend at other times if you're a powerful bender). But the flying felt a bit too much to me. I always thought Ozai was able to do it only due to the comet.
Also, Iroh was left hanging from the flag and never seen again. Wonder if he's still there, forgotten by everyone.

-Bolin, Iroh and Asami walking straight into that electrocution trap, all three at the same time. It was so stupid, and the scene was so quick and sudden. Also, getting caught just delayed their battle with the planes and mechs a bit, and it was a somewhat pointless (almost filler-ish) plot development.
If this scene of them getting caught is really needed, and if we had a Lin/Bolin metalbending mentoring subplot earlier on, this might be the perfect moment for Bolin to do something. If Naga doesn't interrupt the scene, that is.

-The finale trailer had that bit about Bolin against a bunch of mechs... but it turns out that Naga was the one to take them out. Kinda disappointed that Bolin yet again did nothing.

-Bolin ends his contribution to the season by trying to lighten up the mood but getting a cold reaction from everyone. That felt unsatisfying.


-------------------------------
More vital plot grievances
-------------------------------

-Makorra romance still made me cringe. I expected the Asami/Mako relationship to end with a loud, smelly fart to pave way for Makorra, but turns out it was completely silent and odorless breaking wind instead. It wasn't dealt with at all, there was no resolution. All we got was the "I care about you" discussion hinting at a break-up, but we never got an actual break-up. And it felt seriously iffy how Mako apologised that things got crazy between the two; he still couldn't admit he'd made some mistakes, and he didn't apologise for his actions.

-United Forces took screentime from all the main protagonists, but the UF plotline didn't really amount to much. Their forces were quickly defeated, except for Iroh who engaged in the aerial battle that didn't affect the rest of our protagonists. Bumi and his forces got such a quick scene that it seems odd they were included at all. - I'll admit that Iroh and Bumi were nice to see because I'm dying to see any little connection to the Gaang, but when you look at the big picture, those two and the plane battle seemed a bit pointless. Possibly cut them completely to give more time for Korra, Amon and Tarrlok? In episode 10 Tenzin called for help, but what if the power had been cut a little earlier and they failed to send their message? Maybe Tenzin would leave with his family to deliver the message personally, while Korra & co would be on their own, and they'd have to deal with what they've got.

-Asami/Hiroshi confrontation. They actually started to hate each other instead of feeling tormented and conflicted about the whole thing? And holy shit Hiroshi is trying to kill his own daughter? Damn, he's _really_ dedicated to the whole equalist thing. I dunno, this rubbed me the wrong way... AtLA had so many characters who had some kind of Freudian excuse and a grudge with their parents. It kinda upsets me to see yet another instance of an unhealthy parent-child-relationship. I'm almost starting to wonder if Bryke have daddy issues too.

-How did Tenzin and his family get caught off-screen? I felt that them getting caught without the audience ever seeing it - or even getting an explanation about it - was seriously unsatisfying and cheap. It's just unpleasant to have important plot developments take place off-screen and without any kind of handwave at all. Also, Lin's sacrifice turned out to be all for naught. And I'd have preferred to see Pema, Lin and the baby getting broken out of the prison; IMO it was an event that should've taken place on-screen.
In the end I would rather have this whole plot development scrapped. I'd prefer if Tenzin escaped RC to get his family to safety and to call for United Forces. Meanwhile the teen cast tries to hide, but eventually something comes up and they need to deal with the equalists on their own. They could also encounter an imprisoned and de-bent Lin, who joins them for the end battles despite her handicap.

-"Where does Hiroshi find the time to keep inventing new evil machines?". That's a good question... he's rich, okay, but he was a fugitive for a while there. How did he still have his resources? How did he have so much access to money, time, and storage/production locations while still running his own company? And how come the cops never found these locations and compromising evidence back when they were investigating him?


-------------------------------
Looking at things in hindsight
-------------------------------

-I'm wondering a bit if Pema giving birth was actually needed for the story. It was a cute Tenzin family moment, and I like the idea of Pema being pregnant throughout the series, but I'm thinking the childbirth might be cut-worthy so that there'd be more screentime for bigger plot developments.

-Many of the episodes had downer endings. I've read a bunch of people complaining that this was affecting their ability to enjoy the series. They said LoK should've had some more moments of triumph, and a couple of happy endings that didn't leave such a bitter aftertaste. Personally, I can deal with unhappy endings if they're cliffhanger stuff that makes me eager for the next episode. Tarrlok revealing his bloodbending and hauling Korra away in his rapemobile was an ending like that. I dunno about the other endings... I guess many of them were more depressing/apathetic than happy/satisfying or cliffhangery/exciting.

-What are the stakes of the story? This is an important question with fiction. In AtLA, we had a tiny group of kids trying to fight an evil empire. If they were to fail, they would either be killed or imprisoned for life.
In LoK, out heroes are the establishment, and their authority gets challenged by the masses who are planning a revolution. The stakes are this: if Korra and her friends were to lose, they would lose their bending.
Getting depowered from your elemental abilities and taken to the level of a normal human? The bad guys don't even kill people? This stuff just doesn't seem as threatening as the possibility of death, genocide, extinction. Even worse after you've seen the finale; turns out that if Korra just got sad enough, she could've reversed Amon's trick any time.
De-bending doesn't seem very threatening or scary. IMO this is a problem.

-We've come up with a lot of nice ideas for the first half of the season; ideas to make the protagonists more likable and to make their team dynamics work better. A lot of the changes discussed are pretty cosmetic yet still effective.
However, I feel like the second half of the season needs to be torn apart and compiled back together from the scratch. The revelations about Amon and Tarrlok are so major that they should affect pretty much everything.


-------------------------------
Misc notes
-------------------------------

-Someone on /co/ suggested that the finale should have opening narration as an Amon propaganda broadcast (compare to the Tarrlok narration in an earlier episode). I thought that would've been kinda neat and fitting.

-Another suggestion was some kind of "V for Vendetta"/"I am Spartacus" scene with common people wearing Amon's mask. I wish that had happened and it had made Korra realise she can't fight an ideology by punching everyone into the face; she needs to fight it intellectually and win the support of the people.

-I'll admit I was excited to see Zuko's grandkid and to hear a familiar voice (even though it felt unfitting on that particular character), and I'll acknowledge that Bumi had a really great little scene. You got a nice establishing moment for his character in just a couple of seconds, and you instantly knew you wanted to see more of him.
...but yeah, like I mentioned earlier, both characters felt a bit pointless and their screentime should've been used for Korra/Amon/Tarrlok stuff.

-The team separates into Mako+Korra and Bolin+Asami+Iroh who go on their own directions. Reminded me a lot of Sozin's Comet, and I like the idea of the cast separating into their own subplots/battles. Even if I'd like to cut Iroh and the aerial battle, I would like to keep the concept of Bolin+Asami (plus possibly a de-bent Lin) engaging for their own subplot.

-Mako and Korra waterbubbling their way into the island was neat. I love inventive, cool bending.

-Lieutenant feeling betrayed by Amon was the emotional highlight of the finale. The guy was an intolerant bender-hater, but his emotion was still so visible and well done that I couldn't help feeling bad for him.

-It was nice to see a bit of Korra's parents near the ending.
>> No. 106542
Part 2/2.

-------------------------------
Amon, Tarrlok and Yakone
-------------------------------

-Turns out Tarrlok was still relevant after all, the Yakone flashbacks were more important than they initially seemed, and there was a reason (other than Gaang fanservice) why we got to see those scenes. Things tied together. That's very good and I'm happy about that.

-...but I still can't help feeling a bit disappointed by Yakone. When it was first mentioned that Yakone did something bad that forced Aang to do something drastic, I thought Yakone might've killed someone and Aang was forced to compromise on his pacifist beliefs. But turns out Yakone just grabbed Sokka and Toph and tossed them into the ground, and Aang was forced to do the same trick he already did with Ozai.
I'm not saying I want things to be grimdark, and I was terrified about the possibility that Sokka or Toph might've been killed that day. I was relieved they weren't... but I couldn't help feeling slightly let-down when we saw the full flashbacks and nothing too dangerous happened.

-The question about who Amon is was the mystery that kept him interesting. People came up with lots of theories that sounded exciting, and once it was revealed that he can fight off bloodbending, it seemed there might be something utterly supernatural about him. Some of the theories I really liked were that he was some kind of "chi-sponge" who actually stole people's bending for himself to use (which would explain his ability to counter bloodbending), or he was involved with the owl spirit from that hidden library (that owl had a grudge against humans and especially the avatar, after all), or maybe he was some kind of being formed from the restless souls who died in the 100-year war. If spirits were really involved, that would be some scary shit... Korra would have to find a supernatural, angry being, and she'd be the underdog due to being just a mortal human. Plus, she has struggles with the spiritual side of bending.
But once we discovered who exactly Amon is, the speculation time was over, Amon became flesh and blood, and he lost some of his charm. But on the other hand, if Amon's identity had been kept as a mystery, that would've been unsatisfying and maddening as well.

-Either way, I feel like the revelation of Amon and Tarrlok being brothers was the worst possible Amon revelation they could've possibly thought of. This means that Amon's abilities were handwaved with that same Sokka speech that was used to explain away the abilities of Yakone and Tarrlok. Also, there are lots of great stories where the hero meets some kind of twisted version of himself; a villainous counterpart who makes the hero question himself. But this was a story where the hero looks on as two brothers are pitted against one another in that kind of fashion. The main conflict is between these two brothers, their similarities and differences. Korra is just witnessing this conflict from the sidelines and she's not involved in this personal squabble. Korra is supposed to be our protagonist and things are supposed to be centered around her. If Amon and Tarrlok were unrelated to one another and didn't have a personal connection, Korra would by default have the center focus and she'd be the one who needs to find balance between the two extremes. But no; this is a story about two brothers and their father's past sins, and Korra's just some clueless teen who's watching it happen. Amon and Tarrlok overshadow Korra, and I don't know how to fix that without taking away the plotpoint of them being brothers.

-That flashback about the brothers was a somewhat long and awkward infodump. Also, it would've been better if we had heard Amon himself explain his motivations and goals; hear it from the original source rather than second-hand.

-Yakone escaped the jail just like that, and oh, then he got plastic surgery. These explanations felt kinda cheap. And if Yakone really was so important and dangerous back then, shouldn't somebody have maybe mentioned earlier about him breaking out of jail and disappearing off the face of the earth? Why wasn't this important enough to mention if we knew Yakone's son was running around somewhere?

-What did Amon and Tarrlok want, exactly? What were their motivations and goals? Both brothers seemed to have some kind of dislike of their father's plans, yet both still settled for Republic City and attempted to grab power there. Were Amon's plans affected in any way by the fact that Tarrlok was a councilman in RC? Did Amon plan to eventually get to Tarrlok and talk with him? Did he feel responsibility over his brother's political moves, and did he want to stop that crap? Did he want to find a way to reconnect with his brother? Or did he plan to de-bend his brother from the very start? Why did he think his brother would forgive him, and why did he come get him when it appeared he didn't talk about everything with him before?
And Amon really was serious about equalist agenda after all? If so, what happened during all those years he was away from home but wasn't involved with the equalists yet? What did he do during these decades? What happened to him, and why did he come to hate bending despite being a bender himself? Is it all because of Yakone, or what had he been up to for all those years? This is yet another reason why we needed to hear it from Amon himself.

-Turns out Amon planned to remove benders from the world by poking everyone in the forehead, one after one. He didn't have a masterplan that would take care of the matter in one go. I had assumed there was some kind of spiritual trick, but no. Like, maybe provoking the avatar into Avatar State and de-bending her would cut the link between the mankind and their spirituality? Maybe Amon knew this due to a spirit whispering advice to him?. - He had implied it was somehow crucial to his plans that he gets to de-bend Korra at a certain kind of timing. Also, as we see from the matter of Amon himself, de-bent people can still have bending children.
Amon never had a chance of winning this war, and he lacked a masterplan. This was a disappointing discovery; Amon had seemed so calculating, intelligent and prepared for anything throughout the season, but turns out his plan sucked and he was no threat in the long run.

-The scar being fake was a disappointment. Amon was only a liar after all, and his movement disintegrated due to that discovery.
Why didn't he just tattoo it? Or maybe he could've gotten into a fight with some random firebender, and maybe he decided to use the scar to form a fake backstory in order to gain sympathy? Or maybe he was nuts enough to self-inflict it on his face to appear convincing? That would show crazy commitment to the movement. But the best option would've been if he was telling the truth about his family and the spirits... that would've made the conflict really freaking tense.
Also, did he put make-up on his face every day just in case someone demands to see his face? Fake scar just seems so inconvenient.

-I felt like the murder-suicide was a little out-of-place for this particular story. I mean, it would have been a perfect and fitting scene if this was a movie like The Usual Suspects, Memento or The Se7en. If this were a movie aimed for adults, a movie that's allowed to end on an uncomfortable, unhappy note, a movie where bad guys can get away with the stuff they do... yeah, that would've been a great ending for our brothers. But since this is a Saturday morning cartoon, I feel like it didn't fit the tone. I felt it was utterly disappointing that 1) Amon and Tarrlok escaped the heroes, 2) one of the brothers ended the conflict by killing both of them and 3) none of the heroes were around to contribute or witness it. For all Korra knows, Amon and Tarrlok left to do more villainy elsewhere, or maybe they'll return to Republic City once they're ready. The protagonists are unaware of our villains' fate, and it's unsatisfying. Again, this whole conflict revolved around the brothers and was resolved by one of them, whereas the so-called protagonists remained off-stage.

-If the brother dynamic is kept, Tarrlok needs more focus earlier in the season. Also, there seriously needs to be a big showdown between Korra, Tarrlok and Amon. Since all the drama is between the brothers, the brief scene in the little cabin is not enough. These two need to deal with their differences, and Korra needs to be around to see it, and very possibly ally herself with one of them. She needs to be the one to resolve the conflict somehow, because she's supposed to be the hero of this story.

-So basically I'd just make sure to introduce Tarrlok as early as possible, keep him relevant throughout the series, and scrap everything between episodes 8 and 12 and completely change everything. I'd like to keep the idea of the Krew getting imprisoned and Lin busting them out so we get a fugitive subplot, and I would like to have some kind of Tarrlok vs. Korra fight where Korra's trashing Tarrlok until he uses bloodbending. But everything else IMO needs to be re-thought. The roles, motivations and goals of Amon and Tarrlok need to be kept in mind, and they need to act in a logical way.

-Someone on /co/ suggested that the story would actually make more sense if the personalities of the brothers were switched. What if Amon was the emotional, sensitive kid while Tarrlok was the cold, distant one? Tarrlok would stay with Yakone and grow power-hungry like his father, whereas Amon would be horrified by the concept of bloodbending and he would leave. Maybe he'd settle down and have a family. But one day he ends up in a situation where he has to protect himself by bloodbending some firebender. That bender gathers up his gang in revenge, they kill Amon's family and scar him. Amon would in his grief come to the conclusion that all bending is evil; he had tried to escape his heritage, and he only tried to protect himself, but all he got was pain. So, he learns a way to use bloodbending for blocking chakras and spends some years travelling the world and de-bending outlaws, until he settles for Republic City.


-------------------------------
Spirituality and bending
-------------------------------

-Sokka's speech discussing how some people are freaks with crazy powers was supposed to handwave the abilities of Amon and Tarrlok. Turns out all the fans were over-analyzing things and Sokka's speech was supposed to explain everything. Sure, we got the flashback that explained how the brothers slowly learned to grow more powerful, and that was very good... but the mechanics of some of this stuff still needed more explanation, IMO. For instance:

-Bloodbending being able to block people from bending. So apparently Amon actually does something physical to people's bodies, rather than something affecting their psychic/spiritual side? How did he even find out that this was possible? Did he do some kinds of horrifying experiments, or did he learn from some book/person? Again, Amon needed to talk about this... or we needed to get Korra in contact with Aang, and Aang needed to explain what was going on. A lot of fans came up with theories about blocking chakras, and I feel like Aang should've talked about this to Korra.
Also, we've talked earlier about how to make de-bending more scary. One idea was that Amon might be using a flawed method that does some kind of internal damage to your body. Since he uses bloodbending, I feel like there's even more reason to use the idea of his de-bending actually hurting more than just people's feelings.
Also, I kinda thought Amon just severs people's connection to bending completely. But apparently he can't remove bending if a person is capable of it but hasn't learned it yet (see: Korra's airbending not getting removed). That was a little odd, and I would've liked an explanation of it.

-Korra finally figured out airbending and avatar state. That's good.
She figured things out really freaking late and with no build-up. That's bad. And important things happening in the very last second was no good, either.
I would prefer if Korra had lost her bending in like, episode 11 or something. She gets in utter despair for a while and wants to give up, but maybe her friends encourage her, or she finds the inner resolve in herself. She meditates successfully, talks with spirit Aang, and Aang explains her how Amon's bloodbending works. He tells her she's still the avatar and she must keep fighting, so she does.
I would also hope that there had been some kinds of themes earlier throughout the season; benders and non-benders should be equal people, bending isn't what your world should revolve around, and you can still be a person without it. You can still continue the fight, and you shouldn't just give up all hope like a pussy. Korra possibly even contemplating suicide in the end didn't feel right. Besides, she still had one element for herself while lots of others had none. She had a loving family and friends to support her. Things weren't really that hopeless.

-I was upset about Korra just giving up so easily. Another thing I was upset about was that Aang resolved her problems and gave her bending back. I feel like Korra herself should've been able to fight through her situation and solve her problems on her own. This was supposed to be "Legend of Korra" instead of "Legend of Aang", after all. It's no good how Aang just hands out everything to her. What if Roku had done the same thing in AtLA? It's such an anti-climax.

-What about all the "be the leaf" stuff? I really wanted to see Korra embracing her spiritual side, thinking like an airbender, avoiding fights and using her wits to get through situations. Losing her other elements might've made her think before acting which could help her unlocking airbending. I wish there was more build-up here.
Even in the finale, Korra continued to be a punch-happy meathead who got herself into fights without thinking. She started the series with the opinion that bending is the coolest thing ever, and she ended the series on the same note. She didn't learn anything.

-Korra and Lin getting their bending back. This felt like a bit of a cop-out, especially because it happened so very late. It was in fact so late that I actually thought they were gonna go out with a downer ending. That would've been a brave choice, but on the other hand, we already had a lot of downer endings during the season and I think we needed a happy one for a change.
Still, Lin's sacrifice kinda got cheapened by Tenzin getting caught (she lost all for nothing), and the ending of the finale cheapened it even more (she actually didn't lose anything after all). Yeah, I like happy endings and all, but... I dunno. Apparently Korra had the power to change things back to normal all along, and Amon was never actually a threat. All tension got deflated from the story in hindsight.

-Basically, I feel that Korra should've lost her bending way earlier and she should've found the mental resolve to fight through her despair. She should've figured out the avatar state and airbending earlier, as well as discussions with your past selves. Then she should regain all her bending like maybe halfway through episode 12 so the audience has time to accept that fact and become comfortable with it. The ending should be more relaxed, wrapping shit up. And I feel like since we had Tarrlok's position in the council and the councilmen being such assholes earlier in the season, there needs to be some kind of resolution to the corruption issue. Like, Korra holding a speech to the citizens of RC and talking about how to make future better for both benders and non-benders. I guess it might be a bit of a re-hash of Zuko's speech in AtLA, but I still feel it's needed. Also, there could possibly be some very short sequel hook scene for the second season.
>> No. 106545
>>106542
Fuck, did my post break the board or something? I got an odd error message yet the post still appeared for some reason, but now it seems another thread didn't bump to the top of the board when it got a new post.
>> No. 106547
>>106541
>-How did Iroh & co just figure out the location of the airbase if they hadn't known about it before?

They knew the direction the Equalist bi-planes were coming from.
How did the Gaang knew where Ozai's airshps would reach the land of the Earth Kingdom?

>And no one else had noticed the place before?

Nobody expected that the Equalist had heavy military hardware until it was too late.
You won't find a remote air base if do not know what you are searching for and where it could be.
>> No. 106558
>>106522
>>Amon as Al Capone

I really like this idea as an AU fic, although not as a rewrite. Most all the suggestions in this thread are about salvaging the Equalist plot thread, which I feel, while badly delivered, it still core to the story TLoK was supposedly trying to tell. But this AU? It re-centers everything on the Yakone-Amon-Tarrlok plot that ended up being the emotional core of the Equalist story. (Which speaks to how bloodless it otherwise was.)

It could even be used to set up an Equalist plot in an AU Season 2, because we've just spent a season learning about the serious problems coursing through the veins of both the city's establishment and its underworld. A non-bender revolution wouldn't be coming out of nowhere, but as a response to popular dissatisfaction with both the crime rate and a heavy-handed government.

Amon's goals are plausible here, and don't invoke the obvious question of why the rest of the world won't collectively step in and swat him like a fly. He's no revolutionary, just a crime lord. That's a 100% internal domestic affair. And the Tarrlok/Noatok backstory could be delivered at a far earlier point without undermining Amon's status as a villain. Heck, Tarrlok could even hold a press conference about it to justify his heavy-handed response: the menace of Yakone has been reborn, Tarrlok knows exactly what Amon can do and how far he'll go, and the sob story could score Tarrlok points with general public if framed correctly, especially if he rather than Amon was the one to run away from home.


tl;dr -- As a radical AU, I like the idea. As a rewrite, I think it goes too far. But you bring up a lot of interesting points.
>> No. 106637
some good points ideas about the finale here:
http://avataraang.tumblr.com/post/25955228754/what-i-would-have-changed-about-the-ending

I liked that Korra should realize being the avatar isn't about fighting or having superpowers. And that she should be the impetus for her own realization/avatar mastery by thinking back on what she learned during the series.
>> No. 106641
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106641
>>106504
>>106508
Stay for the climax, featuring a singing, tap-dancing Amon!

...fuck, this is the fanfic that needs to be made.
>> No. 106737
Sudden thought: what if Korra lost her 3 elements early?
Depending on how aggressive one wants to do this
Like the first time Amon attacks her or
Within the last 3 episodes.

Yeah that's forcing her to air bend but if training her or Tenzin can't get through to her
( much like Aang was forced to earth bend)
I just want more air in my Air season.
>> No. 106740
>>106737
In my opinion Korra losing her bending definitely needs to happen before the last episode. There needs to be time for Korra to get through the initial shock and learn to deal with the situation. But I'm not sure how things would work if she lost her bending in the first half of the season; it would probably divert the plot a lot further from canonical events. So, IMO it should happen somewhere in the second half, but I can't decide the best spot right now.

Then there's the topic of Korra getting her bending back and gaining the power to grant people bending. Is it a happy ending that's worth keeping, or does it cheapen the sacrifices and losses we witnessed earlier in the season? Should there be some kind of mumbo-jumbo avatar spirit reason for Korra to gain her own bending back, yet still being unable to help de-bent people?
I feel like side characters having to cope with permanent consequences (and maybe getting character development through their new life situation) would've been a better and more dramatic choice. But on the other hand, I do still like happy endings. How did you guys feel about this stuff?

Also, someone on /co/ posted a link to yet another essay discussing the series and expressing rewrite ideas:
http://chirart.tumblr.com/post/25991175534/how-you-can-have-a-bunch-of-great-ideas-but-still-fuck

I thought that post had a lot of interesting food for thought, and it summarized pretty nicely why people were disappointed. The first few episodes of Korra promised a lot of interesting themes, but the rest of the series didn't deliver.
>> No. 106887
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106887
I was brainstorming earlier

What if Amon had been an evil airbender? Like, 35 years ago, Tenzin had a very brief relationship with a woman and he got her pregnant but she disappears soon afterward so he never found out about it? This ties in with another idea I had months back in which out of the same paranoia that led Aang to tell the White Lotus to keep Korra safe and secluded at the south pole:

Aang had secretly been working on an interim peacekeeping force for the world; men who would have all the skills needed to stop benders who became a serious threat until the next Avatar was ready; knowledge of the chakras and how to open and close them; chi-blocking; how to counter all of the four styles of bending even if you weren't a bender yourself; how to go into the spirit world and ask the spirits for guidance and aid; an Avatar pro tempore that wasn't a single person who could be locked away in an ice cube for 100 years while everything fell down around him. Ultimately Aang never implements this plan because he dies first; but it's all written down and ready to be rolled out the second anyone wants to.

Who wants it? The people who care for the lost airbender; the son of Tenzin nobody ever knew about; raised by his mother and grandmother's family also in seclusion. His grandmother? Azula. The plan? To take control of the United Republic and expand political independence to the rest of the world; topple the old monarchies and the four nations forever.

>>38215057

He would be able to stop peoples' bending by closing their chakras using the most advanced form of chi-blocking; very very minor energybending; the lost art the Lion Turtle had taught to Aang. He can pose as a non-bender because airbending can be done so covertly it's not visible and no one would ever, ever suspect there were airbenders anywhere but Air Temple Island.

Moving on: what if Mako and Bolin hadn't been pro-benders but instead, members of the anti-Equalist task force organized by Tarrlok? Korra could be enthusiastic about joining the fight because she obviously loves fighting; and they could be squadmates she ends up hanging out with after the action is over. They wouldn't be brothers, so you can actually do the "love triangle" thing the right way if you want to; without making Mako look like an asshole. They can all quit the task force together when Tarrlok starts going above and beyond the strict necessities of the law in suppressing the revolution.
>> No. 106889
>>106887
>35 years ago
>Tenzin is 50
>Tenzin would have had a kid at 15

gross
>> No. 106894
I'd prefer evil Air Acolyte instead of evil Air Bender. He was maladjusted, went to Air Temple Island to try to help himself. He excelled in using airbending techniques involving evasion, but couldn't let go of his inner demons and got kicked off the island.
>> No. 106896
>>106887
>Tenzin had a very brief relationship with a woman and he got her pregnant but she disappears soon afterward

This sounds like a bad soap opera.
>> No. 106898
>>106896
It was a setup to get Airbender DNA
>> No. 106902
>>106887
· Korra is leading a team with Mako and Bolin on a raid of the Equalist hideout the night the attack on the pro-bending arena happens. After they hear Amon's broadcast over a radio in the hideout they commander Asami's souped up roadster on the street and she drives them there in a flash but they're too late to have stopped Amon; they make it aboard his airship but are repulsed when Amon airbends Mako and Korra off; Bolin is captured and has his bending blocked. Asami realizes there's only one place in the world Amon could've gotten a custom-made airship and invites Korra and Mako to the Sato mansion to look into things around there; Korra overhears Hiroshi's phone call and she and Mako leave to report it in; the next day a joint operation of task force and police raid the mansion and find the secret base; Mako is injured badly by mecha tanks and Korra carries him out after a massive explosion partially caves it in.
>> No. 106978
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106978
ATLA has a non violent pacifist who needed to defeat a Tyrant with any means necessary

TLoK had a very violent fighter who likes beating people up. I was expecting her to learn more about spirituality and actually resolve the conflict non-violently. I didn't get any of that.....

I wish my original theory was real that AMon would have been one of the kind hearted concilman who supports Tenzin. He would be councilman Noatak who is a waterbender. Bending destroyed his family as he is Yakone's son. He is seeing Bending starting to cause instability in the city he loves. Laws and policies are being made that benefit the bender and not the non bender. Naotak would be kind hearted that Korra bonds with him and sees him as a brother/father figure.

I wanted a somewhat peaceful compromise ending.
>> No. 106986
>>106978
I think the entire story would have taken a whole other level if Tarrlok had been aware of Amon's identity from the start.
A battle between brothers with conflicting views and in the process tearing Republic City apart.
And finally Korra would have come in as the mediator after beating them both and exposing them as the frauds that they are.
But alas, we got a very melodramatic but kinda unsatisfying end here.
It just didn't feel like the natural conclusion to the storyline.
It's that lack of any kind of zen-type-wisdom and shit.
That's what bugs me about the show in general.
Korra has this insufferable 90s action movie mentality instead.
>> No. 107077
Here are some of my ideas:

Given that Korra knew she was the Avatar from a young age and could bend 3 elements she should be more arrogant, believing that she's always right and invincible. This would put her at odds with Tenzin and Lin, and would mean that losing to Amon would have far more impact (especially if Amon removes her bending after Korra challenges him to a fight).

It would be interesting to combine Mako or Bolin with Tanho, then you could have one brother trying to support his pro-bending brother. Their goal would be for the pro-bending brother to earn a lot of money as a professional sportsman. A goal that Amon shatters when he removes the pro-bending brother's bending.

I like the corrupt aspect of pro-bending. If criminals are rigging matches and making large amounts of money off bets this could be used by Amon to justify blowing up the pro-bending arena.

The Equalists and Amon need more screen time to establish what their true motives are and whether non-benders are actually being oppressed.

Another way to use Asami would involve her father encouraging her to be friends with Korra. Korra thinks Hiroshi just wants to use her for free publicity but Hiroshi is actually telling Amon where the Avatar is. Asami doesn't know why her father wants her to befriend Korra and initially doesn't like her.
>> No. 107078
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107078
A little bit of drawfaggotry inspired by the ideas posted in this thread.
>> No. 107085
At the risk of saying something unpopular (because this post will involve some shipping).


Start by scrapping the multiple love triangles and you already get rid of a major bump in the road.

I do like to put more emphasis on Asami and Korra's friendship.

Have Korra befriend Bolin and Mako and join the team (you don't have to outright remove pro-bending, just reduce it's importance in the plot outside of being the place where the Krew starts).

Eliminate Bolin's feelings for Korra or have him get over it quickly early on.

Have Korra befriend Asami separately, and then have Korra introduce her to the Fire Ferrets. BEFORE the money problems become an issue.


Have Bolin and Asami bond early on over their love of ProBending, and mid way through make them the Beta Couple for Mako and Korra.
>> No. 107087
>>107078
Wow, great job. It's nice to see that some of our ideas get peoples creative juices going.
>> No. 107170
>>107078

YOU DREW MY HYPOTHETICAL FAN SCENE *flail*

This is so awesome! If I weren't wrapped up in other fandom projects, I'd be tempted to write all kinds of shit based on this thread.
>> No. 107218
One way to get more information about the Equalists would be for Korra to have Asami infiltrate them. Then should could talk to the Lieutenant and he could explain his past, the history of the Equalists, and parts of Amon's past.
>> No. 107219
One way to get more information about the Equalists would be for Korra to have Asami infiltrate them. Then should could talk to the Lieutenant and he could explain his past, the history of the Equalists, and parts of Amon's past.
>> No. 107759
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107759
I thought this was sort of a neat idea.
>> No. 107766
>>107219
This would actually be really cool.

If the events of episode 7 happened a little differently and Asami wasn't forced to help capture Team Avatar, she could try getting into the graces of Amon and the Equalists some other way all while playing double agent. It'd be a neat little game of how far you'd have to go to stay undercover all the while Korra and Amon are both questioning the loyalty of Asami.
>> No. 107867
Korra:Making Of A Legend! Epis…youtube thumb

So apparently Mike and Bryan were trying to emulate some class warfare with the Equalist movement.

Kinda sucks that they didn't follow through at all.
>> No. 107868
>>107867
Thanks for posting that. I've been curious to see these commentary bits, but they've been airing at an inconvenient time and I haven't been able to see them until now.

>>107219
>>107766
I think I like this idea.
After the finale, I thought Asami felt kinda pointless... she was a non-bender whose father was an equalist, and what with Korra and Mako being somewhat douchebags, the series seemed to be setting up some sort of inner conflict for Asami. Like, a temptation to join the equalists along with her father, or maybe she was a double-agent from the start, or maybe she was good all along and might be able to convince her dad to turn against Amon, too.

When it turned out that Asami never liked equalists, never felt any kind of temptation to join them at all, and never looked back after siding against her father, it just felt like everything involving her was a waste of time. Asami seemed to have motivation and abilities to be an equalist. Yet all the doubts against Asami's loyalties were expressed on the internet and in the heads of the fans, but never really in-show (except for Tarrlok, but he was actually targeting Korra rather than Asami). It was just fans looking for depth and hidden meanings even though there were none to be found.

So, I think the idea of Asami going undercover and making people in-series wonder about her true loyalties sounds pretty nice.
>> No. 108086
Guys, I was thinking Korra script primitive drafts were probably better than the final drafts we got for the series.

It'd be so sweet if someone could get those drafts from where they are hidden...
>> No. 114611
Preservation bump.
>> No. 114618
>>114611

...Why?
>> No. 114619
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114619
>>114611
Oh hey, I was actually about to bump this too. I've been working on some new content to post and I happened to finally finish it.
Everyone who's joining late: pretend that the thread title says "Korra Book 1 AU" instead of "Korra rewritten". The thread started out with certain goals but evolved into something else, and it became more like an AU fanfic concept of book 1.

Anyway. I started making a compilation of this thread soon after book 1 finale, but I kept procrastinating and didn't finish my work until just now. Here's finally a textdump on how book 1 might've turned out if +/a/ had been involved in the writing process:

http://pastebin.com/uZLb7AM9

Warning: it's really freaking long (almost as long as this entire thread) and it will take quite a while to read through. If you feel like reading it, do grab some popcorn first.
I tried to incorporate as many fan ideas as possible, but there's still a lot of stuff I had to leave out because it conflicted with some other story elements. Also, it's a fairly jumbled compilation of notes and thoughts instead of an actual script, and some details are still undecided.

We're currently four episodes into book 2. If people still feel like discussing this topic, I think I'd like to keep book 2 out of it. We don't know where its subplots are going yet and it's way too early to form any sort of judgements on them.
>> No. 114643
>>114619
Holy shit yeah, it's long.

I question how the pacing would go with your episode summaries even though I've only read partway through. These episodes seem really packed.

That said, fuck yes, I would have loved to see the show actually happen this way.
>> No. 114645
>>114619
I'm only to episode 10 so maybe there IS a reason why that I haven't read yet, but why did you decide on the Red Monsoons to kidnap Korra? I think the Agni Kais would work better for this part since they also feature in the other characters' backstories.

Here's what I propose, you don't really need to take it into account if you don't want to:

Korra is lured into a closed off area (but a big one, so there's room for a Cool Bending Fight), and the boss reveals himself. He starts talking to her about they ought to team up and fight against the Equalists because they're the real threat and having her help him stabilise the power vacuum in RC by getting the Agni Kais up on top, etc. Standard badguy stuff. He challenges her to... an Agni Kai, saying that if he wins she'll help him out, and if she does, they won't bother her or her friends again. She accepts, and they duel. It's a close fight; she's the Avatar but he has many years of experience, and as a firebender, he is no stranger to her techniques. She eventually gets the upper hand though and beats him with a "cheap move" which he (and the other members waiting in the wings) take offense to.

I think it'd be neat if that cheap move was lightning (maybe slight and unintentional earthbending to trip him and then shoot him with a bolt in the chest). As far as I can tell she was never taught how to do it from her firebending teacher because while she relies heavily on fire, she never uses lightning... but Mako does. This whole incident is kind of the part where Mako realises he's got feelings for Korra, and it'd be nice if she uses something she learned from him earlier on to win this fight in particular. There's an earlier scene you've got where it's possible to show that too, when she comes to talk to him while he is working in the factory in Episode 6. "Wow, I never learned how to do that in the South Pole! How do you do it?" and whatever. He shows her and she gets frustrated that she can't do it immediately, but he reassures her that she will definitely be able to if she keeps practicing, sometimes it takes people years to learn it, and maybe he says some shit that parallels what Tenzin has been telling her about airbending. Korra asks him how long it took him to learn it, and he brags about it only being a month or something, but quickly deflates when she says something like "bet you had a great teacher, not even my teacher could create lightning!" and he has to dodge the question about who exactly he learned it from. He is saved from having to tell her when they're interrupted by Asami, but Hiroshi, overhearing Korra and Mako's conversation and seeing Mako's reaction, may make the connection between his lightning ability and Lightning Bolt Zolt. Anyway, she manages to get the hang of it during the duel and successfully burn the mob boss. There's a shot of her smiling, realising that she could do this and now has some hope that she can master airbending after all, as the other mob guys move out of the shadows to ambush her.

Boss gives her one last chance to join them, she refuses, and they take her away. The duel has caused a commotion, particularly Korra's finishing move, so they need to get out of there fast. As they take her away there's a shot of mobsters dropping some Equalist equipment.

The Council is quick to pin the fight and Korra's disappearance on the Equalists. When Lin reads about it in the hospital, she is very skeptical about the conclusion reached--why would Equalist kidnappers leave their gloves at the scene of the crime? She is the ex-chief of police, she'd know hastily planted evidence when she sees it. Thinking it might relate to the Triads instead, she goes to see Mako and Bolin, who might know more about recent gang activity. She breaks all three out (Asami pleads to let her help rescue her friend) and Lin tells them the details. Mako flips the fuck out when he learns where it took place: it's Agni Kai territory, and the luring tactic is a standard MO. They're the guys who tore apart his family, and Asami's family, and now there's a real chance they've done something terrible to somebody else they love. He runs off towards the headquarters and the others chase after him.

The Agni Kai HQ plays out like the Equalist dungeon does, but because it's no longer Equalists, Lin can't find her team. ): I'm not really sure how to resolve that, maybe she enlists Korra's help to find them after she's been rescued? Anyway, Mako makes it there before everyone else, and he goes berserk on that one guy, threatening to burn his face off if he won't tell him where Korra is, even though the guy says that, as a low ranking dude, he doesn't know. And he's about to do it too when Lin grabs his arm and pulls him away, telling him that as a former police officer, she can't let him do that. There's a little thing about how Vengeance Isn't The Answer. Asami says that, as his friend who shares his pain about losing family members to gang violence, she understands, but she does not want another good person to be consumed by it like her father was. They all hug, friendship strengthened by overcoming grief and their resolve to save Korra, or whatever. Lin instead does her interrogation thing and extracts info from the guy, and she finds out Korra was probably taken to that mountaintop place where the Agni Kai takes their Special victims, who don't usually come back. He doesn't know where it is though, nobody does.

They leave the hideout through a hole Bolin or Lin made in the wall and hear Naga's howl. She'd come to find them and take them to the place Korra was taken.

Then there's your scene with Korra in the box and everything after it. Though I guess I should probably mention that if you're unconscious for half a day, that suggests pretty bad brain damage. I'd just say she was alone in the dark cellar for that length of time because they were tired of her screaming, and they came downstairs just then to discuss what to do with her/see if they can reason with her after a night in sensory deprivation, rather than her just waking up now.

I do really like the idea of Korra getting out on her own though with no help, and her friends finding her singed, exhausted but victorious in the snow after Naga has tracked her down with them in tow. The Agni kKai may still try to electrocute her in the box like the Equalists did, maybe as payback for electrocuting the boss. (The box is also a Faraday Cage so she would not actually get electrocuted even if she WAS standing on the floor, not that the person doing that is likely to know that though.)

thats my story
>> No. 114649
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114649
Asami's role is kinda schizophrenic. I love what you did with her being a double agent, but I think that if we're going that route, we probably need to cut that scene in the factory basement where she takes the glove and electrocutes Hiroshi, because that's a dead giveaway about where her loyalties lie. It's kind of weird that the Equalists and Hiroshi still trust her after that and welcome her into their ranks. I think it might be worth the sacrifice though, because she gets some other really great scenes afterwards. Instead of coming out of the shadows at the end to make that choice, maybe she is fighting against the Equalists by Korra's side until Hiroshi appears and asks her to make a decision, and she says that she can't make it. She refuses the glove and stalls them long enough for the Krew to make an escape. "I'm sorry, Korra, but I can't hurt my dad. He's not a bad person. I'm going to try to convince him that revolution isn't the right thing to do, and I'm still on your side, but I can't hurt him."

If you're tired of some random firebender going around killing people, and don't want Amon to essentially have the same backstory as Korra's friends, I think it is possible to separate them. What if it was a scar from a lightning bolt to the face instead of a standard burn? Those things are fucking awesome (pic related). It might also give an edge as to why Amon chose to target the TTT and Lightning Bolt Zolt first, the insinuation being that Zolt might have been the one who gave it to him and left him for dead a long time ago, when he was still Noatok and new to RC (but I don't think we should ever make that explicit). There's also interesting parallels between young Noatok and Mako in there, too, and Korra, if she zaps somebody in a fight like in >>114645.
>> No. 114793
I've been reading a lot of Cockeyed Caravan lately.
That would be screenwriter Matt Bird's blog on writing and there's something that just hit me.
A central problem with Korra, that they tried to fix in the second season but turned into another problem. Korra's agency.

In season one she seemed to be under-motivated. She had no real goal in the story. At first it seems like she really wants to learn airbending, but after episode 2 it seems she couldn't care less.
She going through a daily routine, with no real goal.
She gets dragged into the Amon conflict, but once again it seems completely like something she does because it's expected of her.
If there was any active pressure on her or something I'd eat it or if she felt it was personal after what happened on Aang island. But that never really happened.
She does what the plot demands.
And that makes her just a little flatter.

Now come season 2, the writers might have picked up on her thin motifs and wanted to fix it.
So Korra is super driven to get spiritual and do her job.
There are rogue spirits about harming the innocent. Makes sense.
But then the plot keeps adding motivations on top of that.
She needs to prove that she can stand on her own two feet, damn it.
She needs to prove she's worthy of her title.
She needs to protect her home from a foreign invasion.
Hell, the guy that's responsible, tried to frame her dad.
Damn, he's even done it before, exiling him. Now it's really personal.

It doesn't even seem like they're done yet. The spirits will most likely reveal another good reason to fight to her.
And that's just overkill.

Matt warns that too much agency is as bad as no agency at all.
>> No. 114811
>>114793
Mako and Varrick are the only ones right now who feel, to me, like they have actual agency, while every other character (including Korra) kind of has this illusion of agency but they're still being dragged around by the plot and making irrational decisions to further it along. Well, I guess all of them except Tenzin and his siblings, who are just doing whatever they want because they're not involved in the plot at all (yet?). Season 2 is giving the viewers a tour of how Avatar's world has changed in the last 70 years but the characters aren't staying for long, so I think part of the characterisation problems are coming from everyone being shuffled from one place to another. Maybe they were listening to people complaining about Season 1 and thought that we wanted to get back to the old ATLA world-crossing adventure thing.
>> No. 114813
>>114811
Yeah, but that's the problem with too much agency.
The character gets railroaded.
There's never a conceivable moment where she might have had any doubts about keeping on keeping on, so to speak.
The fact that Unalaq seems to be responsible for every bad thing that ever befell her family, on top of manipulating her, on top of invading her home, just means that there's no real choice for her in the matter.
Her actions seize to look heroic because there's no real decision there.
And like no motivation at all it makes the character seem faker.
It's like a donkey being dragged somewhere as opposed to having a bunch of carrots dangled in front of it. We want it to move at its own accord. Otherwise it's just a dumb animal.

You're right in that Mako and Varrick have clear-cut agendas. At least now, before that I was scratching my head why the hell Mako was involved in anything at all.
I'll also make an exception for Asami. We know how firm she is in her moral believes and where her loyalties are.
I think she'd help, maybe not as actively as the later part of the season is probably going to make her, but regardless.

As far as the tours are concerned I doubt that we're going to see any more of the physical world. Next up is the Spiritworld. And then we're either heading back South or to the North.
And while it seems like they're running all over the place with no time to catch breath, that's actually a good thing to me. If they keep throwing new stuff at me, I won't have enough time to poke holes into them.
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