>>70418
The bending looks pretty cool.
>>74239 That's about all that looks cool.
I think I figured out the twist. Soaka and Katara are adopted. They're Air Nomads, but in the movies, bending is all about the location, so Katara became a waterbender instead of air.
This shit again? Goddammit.
Umm, where the fuck is his scar?
Also wallpaper if anyone wants.
>>74243 you don't see the faint mark by his eye?
>>74243 THIS Also, WHY THE FUCK IS IROH FUCKING SKINNY!?!? RRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGEEEEEE
>>74243 Maybe at this point in the movie he doesn't have it yet?
>>74241
>>74246 You call that a scar? Looks more like he was bitchslapped by Azula.
>>74243 Skinniness and unimpressive scar aside, I ... I am actually looking forward to these two. Just these two. I really, really think they will be pretty good. The rest of it? Somewhere between apathy and revulsion.
"Who farted on my pillow?!"
>>74252 I'm >>74243 and I agree with you. Patel is a brilliant actor and I loved Slumdog Millionaire. But, they could've at least tried a little harder with his makeup.
>>74254 Yeah its weird that they made aangs Tat really darn awesome, but half-assed the scar.
>>74255 I don't know, I wish the tattoo was all connected like it was on the show, instead of just being in pieces.
>>74256 Well,what I really like about it is that they took the tatto and brought it into the real world with out loosing anything, kinda like how they gave Peter organic web powers in the spider man films. With zukos scar it seems they went waaaaay to realistic.
Lincoln: You’ve seen the blueprints. Michael: Better than that. I’ve got 'em on me.
>>74257 Only problem is that when he grows bigger, his tatts are gonna morph like a muthafucka.
>>74258 The twist is that the tattoo has the secret to spirit bendding on it.
>>74260 He just can't read it because he can;t see it. Brilliant!
>>74254 Oh hell, yeah. Even just for plot purposes. It should not be hard to notice, except in high-quality, well-lit pictures, that Zuko is scarred. He's supposed to have about a quarter of his face utterly fucked up.
So, I just saw the preview for this thing. It looked pretty cool. I was a little disappointed by skinny, evil looking Iroh, but Aang's tatoo looked pretty cool, the siege on the northern tribe looked swell and the bending looked awesome. But I saw Zuko a few times- and I thought, "well sure, he looks just as angry and evil as he did in the first season, but there's something off." then i saw that closeup of creepy Iroh and Zuko, the one posted above. I can let a lot of things slide in movie adaptations- but downplaying a MASSIVE SCAR that was a MASSIVE PLOT POINT just goes too far.
>>74258 Holy crap, do you think *that's* why the Air Nomads go with a simple blue arrow? They can just touch that shit up, no problem, no need to go all nuts with recreating or covering up the screwed up parts? Also, am I the only one going kinda "wat" at Peltz's line "I knew you were real"? He's the *AVATAR,* of course he's goddamn real, there's an island just north of you that was *made* by the Avatar..
>>74258 It says...... Don't trust the skull?
>>74238 .... not bad. Iroh and Sparkla sound pretty cool, and from the little bit of the latter's voice we hear it sounds like he may have some of animated Sokka in him. Aang I'm still waiting on some lines to judge. But Peltz's Katara ... call me crazy, but I'm rather looking forward to her. Seems she'll be Katara without the "grrl power" angle that they had to give her due to being the main girl in a cartoon and she's left with the "religious fanatic"/"tearbending" parts of her character. I doubt we'll see any of the final "MY MOTHER IS DEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAD" part unless/until we meet Jet in movie 2 and her revenge subplot with Zuko and the SR even makes it into the movie. Speaking of Zuko, tiny baby scar notwithstanding, he looks damn cool. At least he seems to have the angstry teenager part down.
>>74267 You're crazy. Brace for damzeltara in distress...Maybe not in this film, but I will put money on done by film 3.
It just occurred to me that there's gonna be at least one scene where serious Aang is not so serious: flying on Appa again for the first time. How could you not smile while riding on Appa?
>>74270 >How could you not smile while riding on Appa? By being a bad actor.
This is such. bullshit.
>>74257 Bad example. Organic webs over self invented mechanical web shooters meant we lost a practical application of Peter's scientific ability. Then they pulled the "runs out of webbing" card ANYWAY for the second movie.
>>74273 To be fair, Peter lost his powers for pretty much the same reasons in at least one of the earlier comics. As for James Cameron's the Last Airbender, I will give it this: the voices sound pretty spot-on.
>>74267 FYI, Katara wasn't grrrl power by default. The fire nation fucked up her family, her mother sacrificed herself so she could live, leaving her the last waterbender in the south and robbing her of her childhood. She discovers Aang and subsequently follows the carrot of getting a waterbending master across the globe only to be told 'lol no ur a gurl'. Rightfully, she gets fucking pissed after all that and asks Pakku outside. I'm afraid the movie will remove/change all of that and reduce her to a mere love interest. Bleh.
>>74276 >James Cameron's the Last Airbender
Somehow Katara's even more annoying when she's white.
>>74277 Oh yeah, definitely. I forgot to mention there that I still hope they keep the Katara vs Pakku duel somewhere, even if I can't picture room for it anywhere. I was talking about Katara's bits of characterization on the network's part, not anything to do with the story.
Hey, by the way, on Reddit, there's a guy who says he was a Fire Nation soldier in the development of the film, and he's doing an AMA ("ask me anything"). So you should pop in and ask some questions, maybe something interesting will come up! http://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/b0n2k/i_worked_in_the_upcoming_movie_the_last_airbender/
I want so badly to hate this. But I watched that trailer and my brain went "FUCK YEAH." I am so sorry, fandom.
You know what would be a Cue Cullen moment for me? If they made a trailer using the narration from the show's intro. It summed up the concept perfectly, and they've even got some of the right shots for it.
I like it.
I won't lie, I thought the ending narration ("He will need you, and we will all need him") was a pretty bitchin' line when applied to the series. Also I'm happy to see the glider was kept. Mostly I'll be pissed if Mai isn't Asian. (...and hot.)
>>74250 This. >>74258 It still looks like a (Celtic) cross to me. >>74282 Trailers always lie... trailers always lie. Frankly, it just made me depressed.
>>74289 You're about two years late on protecting us from trolls from other sites.
>>74281 > However, in the scenes I was in, I was usually trying to kill Aang, which kinda diminished his perkiness.
>>74289 That was me, and fuck you. This place isn't a seekrit club, and hasn't been for some time. And I really don't like this tribe mentality you're pushing of "pro-casters" and "anti-casters." If you don't want anyone who disagrees with you to show up on this site, then double fuck you.
>>74267 So, Katara goes from being a bitch, girl power lover to a poor, defenseless simple love interest? I was about to say that the latter was worse, but honestly, I'm not even sure anymore.
>>74294 Whoa, there. It sounds like you're saying that Katara isn't awesome. That's a paddlin'
>>74295 Yeah, I guess you could take that from my post. I like Katara, it's just that sometimes she gets on my nerves, specially when she goes GRRRL PWRRR. And let's be honest, both of the attitudes I just described suck hard.
What pisses me off even more than everybody being the wrong color is Iroh not being jolly and Zuko not having a reason to be angsty about his massive, disfiguring scar.
>>74297 I would’ve preferred they cast an actor who looks more like Iroh, like Artie Lange.
>Zuko not having a reason to be angsty He got attacked by his father and booted from his land because he was trying to save people. The scar's size isn't the important thing.
>>74301 OMG! OoC! Aang is smiling!
Where are you getting movie Katara being defenseless and void of personality?
>>74301 If they redid the show using those designs, but kept the voice actors, I'd be 100% okay with it.
>>74302 Every time he sees his reflection, every time people are shocked the first time they see him and look away, every time he touches his face, he is reminded. His father may as well have written "Weak Faggot" across his forehead.
So... NOT ASIAN... 'A' Katara has ANEEEEMIAAAAA-
>>74307 You act like you can't feel a scar or phantom pains. Also people tend to make things bigger than they are in their head. So no the scar doesn't need to be bigger for the character's story.
>>74289 Dude, people come making arguments *for* the cast or against the protest, me and about six other people argue and debate right back. Trolls come by, we report or ignore them. We're not some lone bastion of sanity from the evil of avatar-spirit.net >>74302 >>74310 Maybe, but it's more just a "oh, I wonder how he got that?" type of scar than a "holy crap, did you see that guy's fucking face?!" There's a different psychological response to a disfiguring scar that keeps you from fully opening your eye compared to one that you can cover by resting your head in one hand, or that you can't see if it's kinda dark. According to rumors, softening up Zuko's scar and making it so that he had friends in the Fire Nation platoon that was going to be sent as a diversion/bait was a conscious decision to lighten his backstory.
>>74313 I don't think I like the idea he has personal reasons to speak up against his father. I liked it more when he had nothing to gain for speaking up against a group what was about to die because he was a good person.
>>74304 Yeah, all I said what that Katara was going to be more fervent about her almost-religious belief that "the Avatar would return". I mean she could still be badass, but remember that this is a Season 1 movie, and Season 1 Katara was at Sakura Haruno levels of usefulness until the last 3 episodes. Even then she only gets 2 good fight scenes, her challenge to Master Pakku and her duel with Zuko.
>>74315 Exactly. Now he's just being a whiny little bastard who was looking out for his buddies instead of a benevolent ruler type.
>>74313 Maybe the intention is to make him more of an actual villain? Than essentially, mostly being the antagonist for having grown up in a different environment than the heroes? And more of a ... stereotypical 'redemption story'. If this is the case, that really blows.
>>74315 >>74321 Have we had any actual confirmation that this is actually in the movie and that that dude wasn't just pulling it completely out of his ass?
>>74326 Seems like a strange thing to make up. If he was just fishing for drama, wouldn't he have invented something jucier instead of a tiny detail about one character's backstory? Shipbaiting and racewank make for better entertainment if you're in it for the lulz.
>>74302 Size does matter!
I'm still not paying to watch this. >_<
Anyone have/have a link to the "I have destroyed the moon" .gif? I lost track of it when the sticky changed.
>>74334 the first link in this thread links back to the old thread.
COME TO JAMAICA
>>74343 Ay mon! We 'avta melt Ozai's iceh heart wit a cool island song!
>>74343 ...I would watch the shit out of this.
part 2
>>74345 You're not the only one. I... I sort of want this <:| The one silver lining in this casting is that we can call Zutarians pedos, now that Katara looks actual-14.
>>74343>>74346 I LOVE IT :D
>>74343 >>74346 AWESOME. >>74347 *checked the DA, realized they were serious* ................
>>74347 Age is no limit for fantasy sexytime, my friend.
>>74347 ....Okay seriously guys. Stop it. This is creepy. This is many levels of creepy.
>>74363 She did like, five of these (I didn't check the artist's gender, but I'm making a safe assumption.) Plus there's a few similar things already floating out there. I mean, seriously? It's like all they needed was a decent screencap to get started.
According to IMDB, Rohan Shah is "Young Prince Zuko." Apparently he studies hapkido and wrote a bit about it for a school project: http://members.torontohapkido.com/2008/03/hapkido-reflection.html
>>74365 >> It's like all they needed was a decent screencap to get started. Considering the nature of Katara's and Zuko's relationship in the series, what have Zutards ever had that could be called substance?
>>74375 Jeez, what is he, a year or two younger? Why would they even need to hire a slightly younger actor?
Jon. Jon! I killed the Moon!
So apparently the inspiration for Aang's new tattoo design were "sak yant" or "yantra" tattoos, which come from areas in southeast Asia (makes sense considering the southeast Asian look of the Air Temples the trailer shows). Sheds light on a few things I was wondering about, like that odd "square grid" pattern on Aang's tattoos.
Also, those thin vertical lines I was mentioning earlier? Those are also present in these Thai/Cambodian/Burmese/Khmer tattoos.
>>74489 That is actually pretty cool.
I like how there is so much dick sucking for this movie now, when previously, so many of you didn't even want to give it a chance because NOT ENOUGH ASIANS.
>>74506 Ah, our beloved TMC, I was wondering when you'd show up again. If it makes you feel better, I'm still against this movie 100%
>>74506 >previously Actually...
>>74506 Yeah, no. I'm still not seeing it.
>>74506 >Implying I ever considered to watch this abomination.
>>74506 My problem always was, and still is, with the casting itself. The movie could turn out fantastic. That doesn't change my stance that I still think it's been terribly miscast.
If anything, while many people get excited for new stuff for the movie, the more info that gets out, the easier it is to convince people to boycott it, or at least not see it for one reason or another. If it's not the casting failures, it's hiring on the guy's behind Indiana Jones and the Bourne movies to do the Kung Fu, or the ultra srs interpretation, or even just Shyamalan's name. When protesters go to conventions to spread the word, they'll sometimes hardly even need to lift a finger. Also, one rumor and one observation. Apparently, everybody except Mike and Bryan was specifically forbidden from working on the movie before a single camera was taken out of the box, not just the VA's. Sifu Kisu apparently asked if he could provide his services and was denied. Observation: It seems that Seychelle Gabriel, actress for Yue, is listed as "Caucasian, Latin/Hispanic, Sicilian, French" on IMDB, but only puts "Caucasian/White" on her myspace. I guess she identifies as white, kinda like Cameron Diaz (Father was Cuban-American, mother was of mixed English, German and Cherokee heritage.) In all honesty, that could mean exactly nothing. I just wonder if it's something worth noting, since Paramount has made an issue of her ethnicity as a defense from criticism before.
>>74506 What thread have you been reading? Cause that certainly doesn't describe this one.
Hey guys, That post (http://members.torontohapkido.com/2008/03/hapkido-reflection.html) by "Rohan Shah" is not the same Rohan Shah. I am one of Rohan's sister's friends, who rooms with her in college. He is a really nice guy! He studied tae kwon doe though. (Sorry if i misspelled it). When he was shooting, he was only 13, so he looked much younger than Dev. Just clarifying...
>>74587 I said it in the YouTube comments, and I'll say it here, no, they aren't really all that close. The movie trailer's banking on a lot of it's focus on something I've seen called "recognition glee." http://seeking-avalon.blogspot.com/2010/02/recognition-codes-box-office-draw.html In some ways, it's hoping people just keep that sort of Pavlov's dog type reaction of "Oh, look! Appa! That one scene in the first episode! Hell yeah!" enough to pay for the movie and stay seated long enough that they can't demand their money back from the theatre.
>>74605 You realize you can get your money back, even if you sit through the entire movie, right?
>>74607 No idea, the only time I ever wanted to get my money back from a movie was when I was watching The Spirit, and instead of getting my money back, I just went into the theatre showing Bedtime Stories with Adam Sandler.
Hey guys. Posting my opinions on the trailer real quick because I only have a few minutes. 1. White Katara is weird. 2. Sokka is way too serious. 3. I don't really like what they did with Aang's tattoo. 4. Zuko and Iroh are the only things in this movie I want to see. 5. And maybe Appa. 6. And Momo if he's even in it. 7. I agree that this is most likely going to be "Ember Island Players: The Movie" but I'm still not convinced either way about seeing it or not seeing it. Frankly if the trailer for a movie doesn't make me instantly want to watch it, I usually don't until it's on HBO or something. That's all for now.
>>74605 I'm concerned the implications of this argument resemble "More and more people are going to hate this movie because it sucks and anyone who doesn't hate it is being tricked or conditioned into liking it." Seems a little ad hoc to me (a way of explaining away any possible similarities to fit the arguments regarding the changes).
Every argument Sharkman Jones makes is an assault on intelligent people everywhere, regardless of opinion or preference.
>>74612
>>74611 The lady behind Seeking Avalon tends to take a very strong stance on issues, but I didn't really take that from this article. To me, it was more an attempt to explain or rationalize why some people are constantly defending the movie or saying that things aren't different, despite the casing choices. Sort of in a way that the Asian specifics of the world aren't really a part of the recognition for some of the audience, so the casting doesn't bother them, since some of the other details of the movie *are* things they recognize from the cartoon, which is why a video like that one gets made.
>>74587 No they didn't. They've replaced all of the beautiful, deep, and complex Asian characters with a bunch of honkeys and some terrorist. It ruins the setting and the credibility of this movie.
The only thing that could possibly make this movie worse is if they put Nicholas Cage in it.
>>74626 Nick Cage will now be Guru Pathik.
>>74627 I think it will be Frank Oz
>>74629 It will be Nicholas Cage, voiced by Frank Oz.
>>74623 >honkeys and some terrorist That doesn't help. Please don't give people fuel for hating on the protesters.
>>74643 Most of the people who hate the protesters view them as those church moms that just sit at home all day, so they find a "cause" on the internet to bullshit about--so as to seem important. People who agree with the protesters are nerds. Normal people don't give a shit about the race of the cast, other than to say, "lol. White and indian people."
>Trevor Misery Creed !ZykrrGZHY6
>>74610 Momo's confirmed in.
>>74637 I had a feeling nobody would get this joke. I suck.
OH BOY! THE TV PREVIEWS ARE OUT! I CAN'T WAIT TILL ALL MY FREINDS ASK ME "HEY ____ HAVE YOU HEARD OF THIS LAST AIRBENDER THING?" AND I'LL BE LIKE "YOU MEAN THE ANIMATED SERIES I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET YOU MOPES TO WATCH FOR THE BETTER PART OF 2 YEARS? ... I need my ulcer medication.
>>74685 To be fair, it's not like they can look at the TV previews and see any similarity to the animated series.
>>74685 You reminded me of my original plan before I realized I'd have to boycott this movie and learned about all the other changes of suck they made. I was going to take all my friends who were reluctant to watch the show to see the movie, and once they realized how awesome that was, convince them to watch the series with me. Instead, now that the previews are out, I've been telling everyone I know to stay far away from this thing. Oh Paramount, why must you crush our dreams?
>>74690 Dude, look, don't get discouraged okay? What we need to do is to make sure that NO ONE sees this steaming pile of horse shit and they EVERYONE watches the show. What I'm hoping for here is that if DVD sales and viewership of the show picks up, that Nick/Paramount will make more of it, or at the very least those fucking 3 1 hour specials we were promised!
>>74697 >3 1 hour specials we were promised
>>74702 Man, I remember the flier that talked about that. Seems like a long ass time ago, back when the movie wasn't nearly as talked about and mostly everybody had mostly cautious optimism. Pretty sure they got canceled when the movie was green-lit, possibly because they didn't wanna get people mixed up with the series or something (not like James Cameron didn't already confuse plenty.)
Whoa. Now I'm depressed. Hypothetical, though, +/a/: if these three specials were to be made, what would you want them to be about?
>>74708 1)Zuko's quest to find his mother 2)The little rebellions and riots as people who've been fighting a century-long war struggle to adjust to peace. 3)Maybe Ty Lee and Mai visiting Azula in her asylum and trying to get her back to a minimal level of crazy and having a real teark-jerker of a time with it.
>>74708 In order of importance: Cabbage Merchant Combustion Man Zuko's mom
They don't even air Avatar episodes anymore.
People would go rabid if "The Quest for Ursa" wasn't there, but I'd also like to see: The Midadventures of Earth King Kuei & Bosco the Bear. Along with more fluff to elaborate the Air Nomads, and the 36 chambers of mastering Airbending. Hell, make it a Kung Fu movie reference, call it "The 36th Chamber of Airbending."
>>74711 Nicktoons Network does, but Nickelodeon itself hasn't aired the show since the finale. They completely washed their hands of it when it ended.
How the hell do they plan to condense the entire first season into one movie? The trailer looks chaotic as shit.
>>74718 It's easy when you cut out all the fun stuff.
>>74720 Plus all the character development.
>>74728 Correction: all of the EXISTING character development in another part of the franchise. It's still fair game for TLA to make up whatever it wants to about the characters and how.
>>74697 Well, one thing that cheers me up is I've won one of them over already, we just need to get watching the second season. As for the others, I doubt they'll ever be convinced, so maybe even a good movie wouldn't have helped. >>74708 Zuko's search for Ursa Iroh's journey to the Spirit World - damn it, this would have been AWESOME. >:( Something either involving a prequel (I wanna see moar Airbenders. ;_; And maybe Kuzon!) or more background on secondary characters, especially Mai, Ty Lee, and Suki. Maybe that would shut up the people calling them "one-dimensional" characters. >>74703 >Pretty sure they got canceled when the movie was green-lit Another reason to hate this damn thing. >possibly because they didn't wanna get people mixed up with the series or something How would that even happen? >>74712 >Hell, make it a Kung Fu movie reference, call it "The 36th Chamber of Airbending." THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TLA
>>74734 GET THE FUCK OUT
>>74743 DoD The Movie now with more Darkness and Destiny!
>>74744 A+, would LOL again. XD
>>74743 >IT HAS BEGUN Oh god, I wished Shyamaloobieloo made a Mortal Kombat reboot instead. At least then all the GRIMDARK would be justified.
>>74748 How did you latch onto that quote from the trailer, and not "Choose Your Destiny"?
People keep talking about Appa, but I haven't spotted him in the trailers. Am I missing him somehow?
>>74753 Truth be told, he's hard to spot, even if you know he's there. He's in the corner of one particular shot for all of a second or three.
>>74748 >>74749 This made me picture Iroh as Raiden, and then I remembered the Mortal Kombat AMVs in the thread we have here. So... anyone wanna make some Avatar/MK art for the crossover thread?
This, ladies and gentlemen, is how you portray Ozai.
>>74787 >>74789 >>74790 Awesome. Sauce?
>>74787 This girl is Korean, but she makes a gorgeous Kya. She said she was going to do Song too, which would be more authentic and also look great.
>>74799 SHE'S NOT INUIT THIS IS AN OUTRAGE
>>74825 You say "sarcasm" but what I see is an honest to god genuine argument that I've seen made to favor the casting. Basically "Oh, so are we racist for cosplaying as these characters, then, since they can *only* be Asian?" Then again, that argument was from either Avatar-Spirit.net, or the Kataang Forever forums. The same place I where I once saw a sig comparing Nicola Peltz to a brightened screenshot of Katara from the show, saying there wasn't a huge difference, so I don't think it's really a place for logical and honest arguments.
>>74797 http://zangetsuasuma.deviantart.com/
>>74842 Don't fall into the trap of dismissing arguments just because they were on forums where stupid things were said. It's illogical and dishonest to dismiss an argument someone is making (seriously or not) because someone else said a similar thing in another place where people also said stupid stuff. It is interesting to speculate on what it would be like if they had cast a lighter-skinned Asian for the Water Tribe characters. Except for the martial arts inspiration for Waterbending, it's just about all Inuit. Would there be the same reaction?
>>74799 Though I will just add that she makes an awesome Kya.
>>74850 No, I know. But if I remember right, the argument possibly came from the very person who had the sig. I'll keep in mind that plenty of people pissed at the casting are active on AS.net (when they don't lock the threads.) In any case, I dismissed the argument for the same reasons I always do: Cosplay is a hobby, not a multi-million dollar production in an industry that often defines huge chunks our culture as Americans. That said, awesome cosplayers.
>It is interesting to speculate on what it would be like if they had cast a lighter-skinned Asian for the Water Tribe characters. Except for the martial arts inspiration for Waterbending, it's just about all Inuit. Would there be the same reaction? Quite possibly. But it would most probably have sprung up from a well-intentioned ignorance. East Asians, particularly Koreans, are actually fair closely related to Inuits and other Indigenous American groups. I'm sure you know all about that whole land bridge deal, so I won't go into it. The Diego blood group appears only in Native American and East Asian populations. Both Amerindians and East Asians (again, particularly Koreans) traditionally carved totem poles, entombed their dead in tumuli, and had Shamanistic belief systems. Hell, the Korean word for liquor translates to "firewater." The ondol heating system, originally believed to be exclusively Korean, was recently discovered in Alaskan archaeological sites. The Korean language is officially categorized as an isolate but it's been theorized to belong to many different language families over the years, the most popular being the Altaic, part of the Ural-Altaic macrofamily. A language family cannot exist without a genetic relation, and so this relation was proposed through the "Turanian" people. I won't go into details but the point is these Turanians really got around, originally being from Central Asia. Of the Altaic languages Korean is thought to be closest to the Tungusic branch. This corresponds well with the studied migration patterns from Siberia and Manchuria to the Korean peninsula. But Korean has been particularly noted for its similarity to the Sakha language of Northern Siberia. The Sakha are a people that inhabit what's known as the North Pole of Cold, the coldest place in the entire northern hemisphere. The Mansi, another Siberian people, have a remarkably similar creation myth to the Ohlone and Miwok peoples of Northern California. I bring up these facts about Siberians because many aspects of the SWT's culture are, it's been said, more reminiscent of Siberian culture than North American. As well as to show that they're related not only genetically but linguistically and culturally too. Oh, and a lot more of the Water Tribe's culture seems Asian-inspired than just waterbending e.g. their clothes beneath their parkas, drums, the way their food is prepared, the spirit fish, the motif of the girl that became the Moon etc. Anyway, Northeast Asians aren't the same thing as Inuits, this is true, but casting them would still be a far sight better than people of English or German descent. At least they're within the bounds of the same race as it's historically defined.
>>74856 >>In any case, I dismissed the argument for the same reasons I always do: Cosplay is a hobby, not a multi-million dollar production in an industry that often defines huge chunks our culture as Americans. Well said, that's how Occam's Razor rocks!
>>74850 >It is interesting to speculate on what it would be like if they had cast a lighter-skinned Asian for the Water Tribe characters. I still wouldn't like it, I'd probably be voice my annoyance the same, but if that was how they cast everyone, Aang, all the nations, etc, it would still be better than what Paramount's doing. I think a better question is how the fandom would react if Aang had been cast as black or Indian instead of white. A lot of people seem to think he IS white or make justifications for the change, but I wonder if they'd feel the same way if he had darker skin. And I used to think all the drastic changes to Iroh, making him pretty much the opposite of what he was in the show (in terms of looks) would get people more riled up, but it seems I underestimated the fandumb once again. I liked the Rastafire Nation comics and jokes, but it won't be as funny up on the big screen. >>74869 Thank you, this is very educational. While boycotting this movie has been one big headache, I've also learned a lot more about culture. And knowing is half the battle.
per IMDB: Francis Guinan as Pakku >:|
>>74881 He is not a balding, sexy, grumpy, silver fox. He's not sexy at all. He's just pasty. >:/
>>74888 Bard, the OP of the movie thread, once made a series of edits out of screenshots from the Riddick movies. Vin Diesel had the arrow, and thus, Aang Diesel. Unfortunately, Bard didn't save them and the thread died a long time ago. >>74881 Something I just observed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but with Pakku being played by this guy, doesn't that mean that in this movie, not a single named protagonist isn't at least half-Caucasian? Ringer as Aang, Peltz as Katara, Rathbone as Sokka, Houghton as Gran Gran, this guy as Pakku, and Cooke as Roku? All white. Gabrielle is White, with mixed heritage, but identifies as White/Caucasian on her MySpace and Andres (playing Suki) is half-Asian, half-White. Meanwhile, if you're an unnamed good guy, or even worse, an antagonist, then we get all the actors of color all of the sudden. Fire Nation speaks for itself (obviously excluding Avatar Roku), and according to IMDb: Randall Duk Kim is playing the "Old Man in the Temple", Issac Jin Solstein and Keong Sim are playing "Earthbending Boy" and "Earthbending Father" respectively, and Lauren Mary Kim is listed as "Kyoshi Warrior #3." Hell, IMDb doesn't even have Solstein listed in this movie. (I will add, however, Lauren Mary Kim is smoking goddamn hot: http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1618053632/nm1830387)
>>74881 >white guy as stubborn, sexist, conservative bigot
>>74896 Maybe now you're finally seeing a downside to having most of the lead non-antagonists played by white people?
This movie is getting worse with every post.
>>74907 Well, there's no point in blaming +a for it.
>>74905 This isn't taking place in Europe, it wasn't even supposed to take place in a fantasy European setting. It was a fantasy Asian (mostly Chinese) setting, so running into a person that we would define by modern standards as "white" should have been impossible. Yet, if you're important and a good guy in this movie, you're white, and if you're unimportant, you're Asian or Inuit, and if you're a bad guy, you're some sort of brown person. Never anything specific, like only Indians or only Maori or only Iraninas, just united in brownness. Moving onto another question I wanted to ask that's a little separate from the casting problem, Ringer's tattoo in this movie. These two posts: >>74488 >>74489 Point to some Southeast Asian influence for the tats, but Aang's Airbender tattoos in the show were specifically meant to follow Chi paths. Supposedly, this is why they'd glow right along with his eyes. However, Ringer's tattoos have that sorta cross thing on the back. As such, some people think that it has a sort of Kabbalistic influence, which kinda works when you look at a few particulars of the mark, and especially the diagrams and shapes in the center there. Those in particular look kinda like the Sephirot to me. (Before I actually looked all this up to make sure I wasn't just parroting what people said I thought it looked like one of those Renaissance diagrams you always see when the History Channel talks about Leonardo Da Vinci.) Considering that they ripped the Fire Nation's armor from a culture that was heavy into horse riding (which I think were the same people Peter Jackson had used for the Rohirrim, but I'm not sure) it's not a stretch that they may have appropriated stuff from outside Southeast Asia. Thoughts?
>>74909 That's probably what they meant by "our adaptation is actually more diverse."
>>74910 I don't think diversity extends to goddamn tattoos. That was something Frank Marshall said in response to the casting controversy and we pretty much all know that for Hollywood, it's a bullshit buzzword anyway.
>>74911 So it's only diversity if it's skin color?
>>74909 >Considering that they ripped the Fire Nation's armor from a culture that was heavy into horse riding (which I think were the same people Peter Jackson had used for the Rohirrim, but I'm not sure) it's not a stretch that they may have appropriated stuff from outside Southeast Asia. I'm not seeing a Norse influence, if that's what you're saying. And some of the things you've shown me as similar armor types (like this picture of Scythian armor: http://www.magyarsag.org/scythian_armor.jpg) just aren't close at all. <--- This was the image you showed me as the greatest comparison, and frankly, this is just shaky. The one similarity that I can find is the hair attached on the helmet's finial (hell, that Scythian armor could actually be closer to ancient Chinese armor than the Fire Nation armor, just from its use of scale armor). I think I'd be on sturdier ground to point out the large square/rectangular themes in the upper legs, and the grid-like leather plating on the guy on the right here: (http://clearnote.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dev-patel-zuko.jpg) and its similarity to the lower body of this Chinese armor here: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Chinese_Armor_7.JPG). The distinctive feature of the helmets of Rohan isn't the horsehair, it's the eyes. The way that it goes around the eyes without fully covering the cheeks is something pretty unique to Norse armor. The distinctive thing about these Fire Nation helmets (http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/images/gallery/trailer_31.jpg) is the three-pointed design that goes around the face -- which appears to be an homage to the flame design from the show. Even looks more like this Chou Dynasty helmet (http://www.worldwidestore.com/Artifacts/31120ab.jpg) than anything from Rohan of all places. If you wanted to suggest a stronger Western connection, you should have mentioned the more Greek-like design of a few of the helmets (pronounced cheek-guards, etc). It's not enough to just say that the Fire Nation is looking more like a horse-riding culture (not that that was what you were saying; you were saying that the Fire Nation armor was inspired by a specific horse-culture that may also have inspired Rohan), because a lot of cultures had cavalry: (http://www.orientaloutpost.com/usa/1464.jpg). And if the sole piece of evidence for that is the hair on the helmet, I would wait until further footage comes out before implying that the Fire Nation is going to be riding ostrich-horses into battle. Am I trying to say that the Fire Nation armor is the ancient Chinese or Japanese armor that we know? No. What I am saying is that when talking about influences for certain bits in the film, it's important to take it beyond "hey, this one bit of this Western armor looks sort of like what we're seeing." It needs to be strong enough to actually point at a culture and say that this inspired the design, i.e. the creators of the film probably looked at this and decided to incorporate it. Otherwise we're dealing with fragments of similarity which can be easily colored by interpretation. I think it's a similar thing with the tattoo stuff. Obviously it's meant to look mystical, and I'm more willing to think that in doing so they were inspired by the image that things like magic circles have in our minds. But when the link of evidence is the presence of concentric circles and triangles on Aang's tattoo, and diagrams like the Sephirot (a symmetric pattern of circles connected by lines), there's a danger in assuming a link just from the presence of connected simple geometric shapes. I think you may be on to something here, but make sure comparisons you're making are strong (the concentric nature of your everyday FMA-style transmutation circle would fit better than the Sephirot).
>>74913 Addendum (since I forgot and am too lazy to resubmit): the things I had pointed out as SE Asian influences (the grids, the wavy tower of vertical lines) seem more unique and thus more sure in their claim as an influence on the filmmakers. Oh and also I still think the hexagram-like symbols for the heart chakra in the real world are still similar enough to that central diagram as to suggest that they inspired a lot of what we're seeing there.
>>74913 >the Fire Nation is going to be riding ostrich-horses into battle. I forget, did they ever say anything about the hybrid animals besides Appa and Momo?
>>74912 According to Paramount, yes. They think that adding white people and even black people where there were none before is "diversity", whereas a pan-global society of mostly (East) Asians and Inuits is not. It's like a lot of the comments I keep reading on YouTube I know... or articles that mention the controversy: A fantasy world populated by Asians can't POSSIBLY be diverse, because, you know, all Asians are the same. Therefore white heroes and brown villains = diversity in the eyes of Hollywood and the fandumb.
>>74944 Is the issue that Paramount thinks diversity can't possibly be portrayed using only one abstract ethnicity? Or could the issue be Paramount feeling confident in their audience's ability to come to the same conclusion? How many Americans understood the intense ethnic conflict in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? How many American TV shows with all Caucasian casts delve into their ethnicities? For the most part, is this a limitation of the studio or of the audience?
>>74947 Quit trolling. Paramount was never after "diversity" from the start. They had a preference for white actors in the casting calls (something the new CEO said would be corrected in the future, but we'll see) and thus: all four of the main leads were cast with white actors. Dev Patel and the whole concept of the dark skinned Fire Nation would never have even made it to the screen if Jessie McCartney had not left of his own volition, and yet, when criticisms still came in, they fell back on Dev Patel and the other named characters of the Fire Nation as a claim to "diversity," when diversity wasn't even needed in the first place. That's why diversity is just a bullshit buzzword for Hollywood. Because it's being used, and has been used, to make sure that the non-white actors are stuck being the villains or being the window dressing in the background. This crap is nothing new, and has nothing to do with Paramount's in-house rubrics on what appeals to it's audience, as if it's free of their own preconceptions and biases.
>>74952 None of that proves they were never after diversity, it just suggests they knew they wanted a Caucasian main cast.
>>74956 >None of that proves they were never after diversity >they knew they wanted a Caucasian main cast. ...I'm not sure why I'm responding to such patently stupid reasoning... A preference for a Caucasian main cast, in an industry with a long and tired history of doing so, to play decidedly non-Caucasian characters. This, from a company that's had about six notable Asian characters in their movies from 2000-2010, one of which was a talking panda, another being Kim Jong Il, and the most recent being "Teddy," played by Ken Jeong...you know, the character who got his ass kicked in "The Goods: Live Hard, Sell Hard" as a punchline when the main character starts spouting crap about Pearl Harbor? The same movie that Paramount ended up apologizing for so profusely that it led to the MANAA and the JACL meeting with CEO Goodrich which also lead to the discussion of this movie, which led to another meeting being scheduled to discuss Airbender itself, and the two groups being promised a private screening before the movie is released this July.
>>74977 >to play decidedly non-Caucasian characters You know exactly where this is going.
>>74979 Yes, which is why I'm not going there now, not with you. Because you and countless others have made this same tired argument before, for the sole purpose of starting this whole debate up again. Quit trolling.
>>74980 I think the debate being circular shows how little agreement there is between the fans.
>>74977 How does Paramount distributing KFP factor in this in any way?
>>74991 Kung Fu Panda, maybe a little less, since it's probably a little more in Dreamworks' court. I was mostly trying to illustrate that Paramount isn't exactly a bastion of "diversity," in particular when it comes to Asians. They're pretty hit-and-miss in that department. While they were once the studio that launched Sessue Hayakawa's career (even if they kept making him the exotic villain/lover), they're also the ones who later made Breakfast at Tiffany's. They were the studio to put out Flower Drum Song and distributed Better Luck Tomorrow, which are pretty much some of the most well-known American movies with an principally Asian American cast, but they also did shit like My Geisha. And since they're the production company with the decision making power, that's the reason the protest is directed at them, not M. Night (we rag on him for shitty creative decisions.) That's why Paramount was the one who had to apologize for The Goods. They green-lit the script, they filmed it, they kept the scene in the movie and featured it in the trailers. Somebody over in the protest movement had compiled that little list I read off a little bit ago, it had these guys as the most prominent Asian characters from Paramount movies since 2000: Kim Jong Il (Team America) Po (Kung Fu Panda) Guru Maurice Pitka (The Love Guru) Storm Shadow (GI Joe: Rise of the Cobra) Hikaru Sulu (Star Trek) So judging by the "Asian Trees," M. Night talking about Enter the Dragon ann Kung-Fu movies, and putting actual Inuits in the background for the Southern Water Tribe, they acknowledge the origins of the characters, but made the conscious decision to cast white actors for the heros (and at one point, white actors for everybody.)
I'm ok with normal fans and their jokes and... their shipping and stuff, it's OK. It's a funny game until someone takes it too seriously and then, it stops being fun. By too seriously I mean the fantards who've watched the trailers and started saying how "this movie will be so awesome" even before their little minds finished processing the nonsense they'd seen, the superficial school-of-cool eyecandyness of over-reactive irrational enthusiasts. Because this movie is not to be taken seriously at all, it is a bad taste joke, people of Paramount got everything wrong from day one. And they, both Paramount and movies supporters are frivolous on the subject of ethnic discrimination, which is indeed a serious thing in society. I find it too hard to reconcile with the fandom when so many people are backing this movie. At least it's good to see many of us are voicing their rejection.
>>74998 I may be on your side of the argument, but what a pretentious thing to say. "I'm so happy people are voicing their rejection of this movie, all those people who have their hopes up or thinks the movie looks cool are idiots who I'm just going to label as a part of fandom that aren't favorable". The topic of racial ignorance is pretty bad and is an issue that should be bettered clarified by paramount on their terrible casting set-up, but why are people not allowed to be hyped or interested in the movie otherwise? It must be the eye-candy, huh? Because those people actually interested in the movie cant have an opinion higher than "OOOH PRETTY" when it comes to why they'd be interested in a movie? It can't be interest in seeing a franchise they loved in theaters.
>>74998 >"I hate people who takes these things too seriously" >getting pissed about people who don't think a movie that's not out will suck Are you a troll, or just a goddamn idiot?
>>74998 It makes me unhappy to see so many supporters for the movie, but you really could have written that better. >both Paramount and movies supporters are frivolous on the subject of ethnic discrimination, which is indeed a serious thing in society Well, that's one thing we can agree on. Honestly, I thought a lot of the changes would turn more people off this movie, but trailers are deceiving. You can't fault them too much for seeing this trailer and thinking it looks cool, especially if they haven't been following the Racebending protests as closely as most of us have. I'm hopeful that those who are ambiguous on the issue and go see the movie will realize what a mistake they made and not watch it again. Of course I also hope very few people go to see it at all, but I'd be deluding myself if I thought no one in the fandom would.
If the film bombs, all is well. How shall I deal with the films financial and popular success?
>>75007 Ignore it. People will forget about it before long. It's just another disposable action movie. It has none of the heart or memorability of the series.
>>75011 That's something none of us can prove or disprove, on the subject of the film having the heart or memorability. Yes, the casting was a real big problem but I absolutely doubt the general people watching the movie will be thinking "wow, what a crappy movie because of the ethnicity of the cast and the differences around them". And that's all we can argue, because honestly the trailer hasn't shown us enough things that tell us that it will be a terrible movie. The action looks good, the CG looks to be well done and we haven't heard enough of the characters to tell how their characters will actually act. I know everyone who has soured on the movie wish and hope the movie to bomb, I still feel that paying to see the movie would be a terrible sign of being ok with the casting selection, but we really do not have enough info to tell us that this is going to be as terrible as say Wolfman or other films, it's just speculations fueled off of already being disappointed at a company.
>>75019 M. Night Shyalaman is directing it, that's pretty much all the proof i need that it will most likely be shit.
M. Night is a fine director, he's just a shitty writer
>>75023 Which still doesn't bode will for this movie since he wrote the script.
Three more screening reviews up on AIC: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44143 From the most positive review: >The film tries to do too much to fast, and many relationships are half-formed or barely formed (particularly the relationship between Sokka and the water tribe's princess), and many of the scenes that include Patel as Zuko The Tortured Teenager were silly instead of dramatic. The film truly felt like it was missing a half-hour's worth of scenes. The good news, for the cartoon's fans: kid that plays Aang is awesome, Uncle Iroh is a joy on screen, and the action kicks some MAJOR ass. From the most negative: >The entire audience applauded at the end of the film but I could not bring myself to do it. This was a bad movie. As a movie fan, I hated it. As a film geek, I despised it. As a Shyamalan fan, it ended any hope I had for him as a director or a writer.
>>75023 It's arguable as to whether or not he's a good director. But, let's say for the sake of discussion that he is? He's a good director when it comes to suspense movies, not fantasy or action movies, which require different sensibilities and which he's never done before. So either way, his ability to pull off something this ambitious is ambiguous at best, and abysmal at worst.
>>75031 The mostly positive review sounds like the same criticisms of the show.
Meh, i'll just stick with the animated series. Tbh i never really saw a reason to make a live action version. If anything i would have loved for them to pull a TTGL and make 3 animated movies based on the 3 seasons with big budget god tier animation. Oh well....
>>75037 Gainax or (pic related) making a feature film would have given me over 9000 fan-boners simultaneously.
It seems the grand majority of the reviews are starting to lean towards negative: http://ow.ly/1dooM Reaction to Noah Ringer is mixed, I still don't have an idea as to how well he's done. However, reaction to Shaun Toub is thus far universally positive, reaction to Nicola Peltz and Jackson Rathbone is thus far universally negative. Best actor in the movie, and he wouldn't have been picked if McCartney had not dropped. Go figure. Something else worries me, though: tons of people are coming down on the pacing of the story. The amount of time spent at the North Pole may be a little bit murky, but at least it was only slightly murky over the course of three episodes out of twenty. I don't need to remind people that this movie has a runtime of about 90 minutes (which is odd because two whole hours isn't unheard of in a kid's movie, even the Incredibles is roughly two hours.) That whole story arc has to be shown in roughly 20-30 minutes as well as manage to squeeze everything else in. It's a pacing nightmare, and it seems the movie is suffering for it. >>75038 Totally agreed.
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44143 At least they kept Zuko and Zhao as rivals, instead of being part of a generic "raawr, get arrow boy!" army.
>>75040 >[Shaun Toub] wouldn't have been picked if McCartney had not dropped wait wat I thought that was Dev Patel?
>>75043 Yes but the loss of McCartney forced the re-casting of all of the leading Fire Nation characters to compliment Patel.
See, now this is the kind of stuff I've been waiting for. Speculation and discussion on casting, smaller plot points, props, sets, etc., can only get you so far. It's very hard to get a real sense of things like acting and pacing out of teaser trailers. But here we can actually start to see the real problems the movie seems to have. The pacing in particular worries me; there's a real risk of it turning out like some of the HP movies, which suffered from having to cram so much into a short time. And like Sharkman said, it's weird how short the film apparently is, taking even less time for a larger story. I was also struck by the mention in one review that the style (visually, I think) of it all felt rather generic, and while I would want to see more in order to gauge this, I can see how, if this is the case, what makes it that way. There are some stylistic choices I really like (I love Aang's tattoos, for example, and the little we've seen of the Air Temples), but I can also see how these can be piecemeal examples, without a strong overarching visual style to define the film.
>>75044 Oh man, that's great. Because this one time I put scissors on my desk and they weren't there when I came back. So then everyone in the world had to buy new scissors.
>>75046 ...Seriously? How can you not make sense of that? Most of the important Fire Nation characters are all blood relatives. If you recast Zuko, then yes, HAVE to recast his Uncle, Father, Mother, and Sister, so that they look related to him. Are you telling me that if McCartney had stayed on as Zuko, then Toub would still be Iroh? That Cliff Curtis would still be Ozai? Because then we'd have one caucasian in a family of decidedly NON-Caucasian people. Everyone would go the entire movie wondering if Zuko was adopted or something. Your metaphor overlooks the common fucking sense of familial casting.
>>75047 Yeah, making the one important one white, and the rest ethnic would be stupid. That'd be like making everyone else in the water tribe inuit except for Katara and Sokka.
>>75047 >...Seriously? How can you not make sense of that? That's kinda his thing by now. Great god, can you imagine the extra ammo that the protest would have if that was the case? Every single kid from season one destined to later save the world be white, and raised by non-whites. It's like Tarzan, or some other Mighty Whitey trope, times four. To change the subject a bit, it seems Mandvi is punching the fish to death after all. But since people apparently laughed at it, is there a chance for them to change it? Well, if they do, they'd better re-film that or edit in some fire, considering that if they cut any more from the movie, even Bolt would end up being longer. I still don't get it, though. The first Chronicles of Narnia movie was 135 minutes, and arguably, it could be called a kid's movie with more adult themes woven into it's narrative, just like the show could, and it was wildly successful. Cutting it down to 90 minutes is literally trying to sum up season one in roughly 3-4 episodes.
>>75050 Admiral Zhao: Fish Puncher is already too ingrained in our minds. There's no way to change it now.
>>75046 You've ceased to play Devil's Advocate, now you're just being goddamn retarded.
>>75040 Final nail in the coffin. 90 minutes? That's ridiculous. Even if the casting were pitch-perfect, the dialogue crisp, and even if the effects were not just okay, or maybe 'good', but rivalling the OTHER Avatar, that would still convince me that it was going to be bad. Because there are enough problems in doing Avatar in two to two and a half hours, let alone 90 minutes. Remember people saying the finale was rushed? Imagine them doing the entire third season in the same time span.
>>75046 I know the point you were trying to make. But even in that context, it doesn't make a bit fucking of sense.
Now, subsequently, I had heard something about it being more like 135 minutes, with the missing footage being CG stuff that wasn't done, but I don't know if there's a strong source for that (if I hear a reliable source talk about this, I'll let you know). Also, I would not have expected those to be missing from the film screenings, even if it was like a piece of paper in front of the camera labeled "koizilla here". Also if that extra chunk is just CG that it wasn't shown, would it really help with the pacing that much? So I just wanted to bring this up, even though at this point it's a weak stance to see flaws and cross your fingers that they'll get changed this late in the game. /co/ was full of finger-crossing for the Watchmen film, and none of the things they hoped would change, were.
>>75053 Funny you should mention that. The Finale was originally going to be three episodes, but Mike and Bryan were crunching so much into the damn thing that they extended it to four, which is why season 3 was 21 episodes, as opposed to 20. >>75055 I don't think it would help, since some of the complaints are about how we don't get enough of a sense of the characters and their relationships to give a damn about them. I don't think CGI montages of Rathbone and Gabrielle gondalaing down the NWT at night with tons of pretty CGI are enough to suggest anything. And we *still* have somebody punching a fish to death. Even the rough print Wolverine movie had big red lines where the lasers were supposed to be, so I don't think it's part of their original intention, especially since the reviews have said that the bending effects were mostly done.
Another review, from someone on the LastAirbenderFans site (so a review geared toward what ATLA fans are interested in). Might be something interesting in there, though again it's echoing a lot of things. http://www.lastairbenderfans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2361
>>75058 The grammar in that review makes me weep for humanity.
>>75059 English wasn't their first language, apparently. I guess it's going to be two hours after all? They were apparently told 30 minutes were missing from the movie, something that was reinforced by the fact that it was apparently missing Zuko's backstory.
>>75057 That Wolverine rough cut was better than the finished movie.
Relevant:
Also, this may be that prequel manga. I kinda notice though that the scar is pretty much non-existent, and the title seems completely amateurish.
>>75063 I haven't seen the cover, but Nina (the prequel comic artist) has mentioned the approval process she had to go through while drawing it. So I'm fairly certain that this isn't it.
>>75066 Well, if I find an image macro for "thank god" this is where I'd post it. If that's the case, does the "manga" have an actual title? Because then it's possible this is something else, like a kid's book or something.
>>75067 Probably. Wasn't there one of those ATLA kids' books called "Trial By Fire"?
>>75068 http://books.simonandschuster.com/Trial-by-Fire/Michael-Teitelbaum/Last-Airbender-Movie/9781442402904 It's done by the same guy who wrote most of the other Avatar books so it'll be a kiddie book. Those other kiddie books were based on screenplays of the episodes. It'd be funny if this book contained spoilers for the movie like the Sozin's Comet book did seeing as it's coming out about six weeks before the movie's US premiere.
In regards to the length of the film in these reviews, did they get the final screening or the rough cut like the other showings? Because that's a big detail that I can't pinpoint in these newer reviews.
>>75070 Apparently, they got a rough cut, which we already knew, but apparently this version was missing like a half-hour, which may resolved the pacing issues...or drag things out and make it worse, we'll have to see when more reviews come out.
I know some people will say I'm overreacting, but I just thought of an analogy. This movie is like watching someone you care about being tortured. Every new bit of information is like a picture of further mutilation. That's what it feels like to me, anyway. >>75069 >It'd be funny if this book contained spoilers for the movie like the Sozin's Comet book did seeing as it's coming out about six weeks before the movie's US premiere. I'd get a good laugh out of that. Then watch movie supporters claim all the bad parts were made up like the Zutards did about the Kataang and Maiko endings.
>>75069 Spoilers? You DO realize that the movie is based on Book 1, right? Did you completely forget that or something?
>>75078 No, but I'm assuming that some changes will be made and those changes might end up in the book. I can't imagine Shyamalan would adapt something and "not" put some of his own original ideas into it (isn't that the point of an adaptation?). But I could be wrong. At the very least, the book might give everyone more details about what was left out of the movie. That would qualify as "spoilers"..
>>75078 Could've fooled me with all the sucky changes they're making.
Fact: anyone who thinks the whitewashed casting is okay because it's a "fantasy world" is fucking retarded.
>>75098 "Anime characters don't look white." Actually, some people think they do. I don't, but let's not go making bold and generalized statements here.
>>75099 the point your head
>>75098 That's actually a pretty clever satire, there. Kudos to Ali for stepping in an clearing up some of the confusion.
>>75098 Nice pic, but we could do without the insults, anon. Or is that just arguments that come off as "strong"?
>>75098 I lol'd
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/86738352.html Seems they're asking for a few extras to film a few more scenes, I guess. >Wear your karate gi, dress casually, or come in the traditional costume of your family's ethnic background. They're still doing that ethnic costume shit? Korean Kimono and the like? Gi? Well, whatever. But, I'm pretty sure historians/historical-reenactment people get a little pissy if you call it a "costume."
>>75145 This right here is why the protest exists in the strength it does. Whitewashing happens all the time in the media. But so rarely is a casting director so utterly brazen in his or her ignorance.
>>75098 This is not related to FMA or Avatar, but for the record, the anime Rose of Versailles was made into a live action film. They filmed in France with french actors. So, yes, it can be done. Should have, but more and more I feel like crying over shot film at this point.
>>75145 At least they're not asking Flemlanders and Walloons to come in lederhoesen. That's a marginal improvement in cultural sensitivity. They're still doing make-up shots with extras included? This feels awfully late in the production process to be making these kinds of changes. From what I remember from behind-the-scenes documentaries and stuff, filmmakers sometimes shoot new footage if test audiences or higher-ups are concerned about the quality of the rough cut. If they're going so far as hiring extras for new scenes, things can't be going too well.
>>75145 See, this kind of stuff that really pisses me off. They only started asking for "ethnic" clothes, "costumes", and people after they already hand-picked white stars to play heroes. Meanwhile you have fans playing the same race-bingo games about how they chose the best actors and that talented minorities don't exist, or didn't show up, or might not want the part. Fucking fail. >>75153 >This is not related to FMA or Avatar, but for the record, the anime Rose of Versailles was made into a live action film. They filmed in France with french actors. So, yes, it can be done. What? French actors portraying French characters acting outside our stereotypical cowardly sidekicks? What nonsense is this? Clearly that movie would have been better with Caucasian American leads.
>>75153 >This is not related to FMA or Avatar, but for the record, the anime Rose of Versailles was made into a live action film. They filmed in France with french actors. That movie makes Uwe Boll's stuff look like gold.
>>75166 If that's the case, Non-French actors wouldn't have done much better. At least it has one less failure on it's part, it's more than Hollywood tends to do. Anyway, moving on to a more on-topic concern, I caught something in that call for extras that I didn't see the first time: >Prospects, who must be available for two months starting March 22-- Two months? They're going to be doing principal photography with these extra scenes as late as fucking May?! I get the feeling that this is actually them trying to remove things like Zhao: Fish Puncher, but 1.5-2 months before a movie's actual release date is goddamn cutting it.
>>75168 This might be for promotional filming.
>>75098 his nose is huge, angular and long.
>>75098 I think the main argument of it being a fantasy world is that the characters are of fictional ethnicity, and saying they're white, black, asian, hispanic, etc. is making rough assumptions.
>>75168 They're holding unusually early test screenings with incomplete cuts of the film, the reactions to which have been largely negative. Now they're holding casting calls for extras and minor background characters for additional filming. Meanwhile they're promoting the hell out of this movie as if it were an anticipated summer blockbuster, referring to it in interviews as a "tentpole" film for the studio. It seems pretty obvious that Someone at Paramount is unhappy with this film and trying desperately to salvage it, up to and including re-shooting scenes (or adding entirely new ones, possibly to clarify some point of the plot or characters. I wouldn't be surprised if they're beefing up the Sokka/Yue romance, for example.) They've committed an unusual amount of resources (for a film that's part of such a relatively unknown franchise, particularly) to its promotion, presumably on the assumption that its boxoffice success will help keep them in the green this year. Looks like they gave MNS too much free reign with his "vision" and now they're scrambling to do damage control.
Why look over there on the horizon, Paramount. It's Mike and Bryan. You know those two very gifted kids who turned out a phenomenon with three years and thirty minutes a shot? Wow. They sure are off in the distance while you are mired here in this quagmire auteur bullshit. I think they're saying something. 'you can't blame us!'
>>75182 This reminds me, have they actually said anything about the movie recently?
>>75186 Non Disclosure Agreement. They can't talk about the movie, period. Probably a preemptive move on Paramount's part, as they probably wouldn't have anything nice to say about it at this point.
>>75190 It's pretty industry-standard to make anyone remotely involved with a movie sign non-disclosures. I think Mike and Bryan are/were suppose to be the Executive Producers when all this started so they probably had to sign something all the way back in 2007, when all this started.
>>75191 So where's the Cue Cullen? Where's the "we made the show, and we like the movie!" announcement?They wouldn't be keeping them quiet if they had anything good to say, that's for sure.
>>75194 I don't disagree. The fact that they haven't said anything tells me that they are trying to completely separate themselves from anything having to do with the movie.
Yeah, good old NDAs. Thank you, Anne Rice, for setting the precedent to make them standard Hollywood practice. Mike and Bryan were listed as executive producers, which was a "Que Cullen" moment for all of two seconds for all of two seconds for people who know better. Now, though, the credits for the trailer just cite them as the original creators, same with the Wikipedia article. IMDb is the only thing that mentions their status as Executive Producers. Although, despite being bound by one, Sifu Kisu seems to be kinda...straight up ignoring it. He said a few things supporting the movie and it's casting very early one, but all of two days later outright recanted and said "fuck the movie" a number of times. In fact, I'd have to say that when it comes to the movie and his Non-Disclosure Agreement, Kisu threw two middle fingers into the air and has been an open supporter of the protest since people in the movement caught up with him at SDCC '09. Actually, Nick is apparently working on a sort of "Making Avatar: The Last Airbender" TV special, likely akin to Square Roots: The Story of SpongeBob SquarePants, and Kisu was negligent to be included in the segments about the styles behind bending because he didn't want to promote the movie. Since I'm talking about Kisu, here's something tangentially related that I thought was cool. It seems that after seeing Perris Aquino's video (He's the other kid that auditioned for Aang) Kisu saw what the kid could do, met up with him, and filmed him and two other kids showing their skill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnlyPJkB5Ys
If I were Bryke I'd be busy looking for look-alikes for the debut screening.
>>75196 Okay, never quoted on +4chan so, uh, I'll try to make this post work. Don't hurt me...too much. >>>Mike and Bryan were listed as executive producers, which was a "Que Cullen" moment for all of two seconds for all of two seconds for people who know better. Now, though, the credits for the trailer just cite them as the original creators, same with the Wikipedia article. IMDb is the only thing that mentions their status as Executive Producers. Don't know how reliable it is but I just checked the credits for TLA on About.com. M&B aren't listed as Executive Producers. They're only recognized as being the creators of the A:TLA. Crew List Directed By: M Night Shyamalan Screenplay By: M Night Shyamalan Based on the Series: Avatar: The Last Airbender Created By: Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko Producers: M Night Shyamalan, Sam Mercer, and Frank Marshall Executive Producers: Kathleen Kennedy and Scott Aversano Theatrical Release Date: July 2, 2010 Genres: Action, Drama MPAA Rating: Not yet rated Studio: Paramount Pictures and Nickelodeon Movies >>>Although, despite being bound by one, Sifu Kisu seems to be kinda...straight up ignoring it. He said a few things supporting the movie and it's casting very early one, but all of two days later outright recanted and said "fuck the movie" a number of times. In fact, I'd have to say that when it comes to the movie and his Non-Disclosure Agreement, Kisu threw two middle fingers into the air and has been an open supporter of the protest since people in the movement caught up with him at SDCC '09. I love Kisu's "Fuck Hollywood!" attitude. >>>Actually, Nick is apparently working on a sort of "Making Avatar: The Last Airbender" TV special, likely akin to Square Roots: The Story of SpongeBob SquarePants, and Kisu was negligent to be included in the segments about the styles behind bending because he didn't want to promote the movie. I...did not know that. I haven't been keeping up with the movie stuffs. Since I'm boycotting, I don't see a point in even keeping track of it. I just live in my little world where the movie doesn't exist. -_-; >>>Since I'm talking about Kisu, here's something tangentially related that I thought was cool. It seems that after seeing Perris Aquino's video (He's the other kid that auditioned for Aang) Kisu saw what the kid could do, met up with him, and filmed him and two other kids showing their skill: Yeah, they posted the vids on racebending lj. It was pretty cool. :)
>>75198 You just use one ">" to make greentext for quoting. Example: >I...did not know that. I haven't been keeping up with the movie stuffs. Since I'm boycotting, I don't see a point in even keeping track of it. I just live in my little world where the movie doesn't exist. -_-; Just to let you know, the "Making of" thing I talked about is based on the cartoon, not the movie, Kisu made a post somewhere, I think his livejournal or something, saying that he was dubious because he was worried they might try to get him to say something about the movie. In the end, he decided to do it at the insistence of his commentators, who share his sentiments about the movie, it seems. Moving on, two months seems kinda extreme for just promotional filming, has there been any news or reports from the main actors being called back? Because there was an article talking about them finishing their scenes and taking a tour of Philadelphia a ways back last year.
They're taking questions for M. Night to answer in a live-chat interview: >Tomorrow, we'll be chatting face-to-face with the master of the twist ending himself, director M. Night Shyamalan. So please, post your Airbender questions for M. Night below. Ask away, yip yip! http://io9.com/5490442/ Now may be the chance to try and clarify a few details, if they decide to answer. I'll also be wondering how/if they'll react to the questions regarding the race-controversy, there seems to be a number of them.
>>75202 You just know the live chat will be anything but. It'll be M. Bison Scheherezade, and a couple moderators filtering the "acceptable" questions, "Why do you rock so hard?" "Is it ever annoying being so awesome?" from the real questions.
>>75196 You forgot the manip pic of win. Sifu Kisu is totally a real Firebender, no lie. I bet he can blow up stuff with his mind too.
>>75223 Pay close attention to his "what the fuck is this shit?" expression. Also, he'd received an iron-on for a shirt that says "Caucasian or any other ethnicity" from a protester and posed for a picture while holding it. He's boycotting.
>>75225 From what I've seen, Sifu Kisu has either been playing both sides (due to the NDA) or someone's been imitating him.
>>75225 Link?
>>75225 Yeah, it's two steps from impossible that it's actually him. Anytime it's one of his actual accounts, he's all about dissing the movie, and it's not the first time somebody's imitated him. According to the guy who took the pictures, he showed Kisu the shirt, Kisu cracked up, said "I gotta get me one of those" and received one in kind.
>>75229 >I always see white people having some form of guilt and not even bothering on crying racism at the Thor 2011 cast. *looks at Thor 2011 cast* The fuck you talking about? All the major leads in Thor are white except Nick Fury, who's been cast as Samuel L Jackson long before now in comics and films. It makes sense for the major characters in Thor to be white because it's based in Norse mythology. Same deal with LOTR (Anglo-Saxon mythology). TLA overtly revels in East Asian and Indian mythology, which makes Asian casting eminently sensible. I'm not even going to approach the 'why do whites hate themselves' comment. It's so blatantly trolling it's not even funny.
>>75229 Oh wow, an Asian! I bet he represents ALL Asians! And clearly white people feel guilty, the poor things. They couldn't have any other reason to hate racism.
>>75230 I think he's talking about Heimdall, the "whitest of the gods" being played by Idris Elba, who, rather ironically, is Black. Hogun is being played by Tadanobu Asano, who's Japanese, and his character was always kinda vaguely Mongolian or something, but he isn't a part of actual Norse mythology. That, and I remember one person once lamented that one possible candidate for Thor himself said he possibly wasn't chosen because they may have wanted somebody more Nordic-looking, which the person making the comment said was something of a double-standard that they'll look high and low for the perfect Nordic-looking guy, but they won't bother with Asians. Not sure how valid of an idea that was, though. Regardless Ras and >>75231 sum up the problem with the statement (Also, Ras, I e-mailed you and sent a note to your DA, if you could check those.)
>>75233 I did respond to your e-mail, didn't you receive it? Don't worry, I'll send it again. Check your spam filters just in case.
So who the fuck cares about the shitty live-action movie? http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/2010/03/12/2010-03-12_testing_soapy_waters_nickelodeon_to_use_degrassi_the_next_generation_to_try_out_.html "Expanding the brand" happens this summer with the theatrical release of M. Night Shyamalan's "The Last Airbender," the first in a three-film, live-action franchise based on Nickelodeon's animated series "Avatar: The Last Airbender." Nickelodeon has "Avatar" creators Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko developing a new series, too, Zarghami said.
>Nickelodeon has "Avatar" creators Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko developing a new series, too, Zarghami said.
>>75244>>75245
>>75244 >Mike and Bryan are working together again Awesome, though we're gonna need to be patient, at it can easily spend a long time in pre-production. Avatar itself was first conceived in 2001. Although if they're announcing it they're probably farther along than "an air guy and these water guys are wandering around a wasteland and maybe being chased by some fire guys". Whatever it is, I hope it's as well animated as Avatar was.
From the way the article said it, it sounded a bit like it was referring to the movie and the new series together as a collective in terms of something the franchise was doing.
>>75229 >Asian here and why do white people hate themselves? I'm sorry i read posts like this and i don't know how to react because i can't tell if you're serious or not. You trollin, boy?
>>75244 > Nickelodeon has "Avatar" creators Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko developing a new series, too, Zarghami said. New series as in new Avatar series or new series as in "new IP"?
http://tinyurl.com/yhy5um7 >Zarghami outlined the network's strategy, which included five key areas, such as expanding the brand, being a leader in animation, supercharging key franchises and being tops with 'tweens. "Expanding the brand" happens this summer with the theatrical release of M. Night Shyamalan's "The Last Airbender," the first in a three-film, live-action franchise based on Nickelodeon's animated series "Avatar: The Last Airbender." Nickelodeon has "Avatar" creators Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko developing a new series, too, Zarghami said. >"The five strategies are the framework," she said. "Everything we do feeds into one of them. We don't rest on any one drama, any one demo. It's preschool, it's family, it's new properties. It's old properties. We're making a lot of stuff and there's a reason: We serve many masters." The way it paces the sentences makes me think it means Avatar, but I think it may be a bit too much to hope for.
>>75261 inb4 Mike and Bryan make Gaang Jr: The Animated Series
While i would LOVE to see BRYKE return to the Avatar universe for a new series, i'm kind of hoping that it is something completely different cause i would like to see something new from those guys. Either way it's all good.
>>75262 If... if only... ;_;
>>75261 Tweens? I thought most people doing all the ferocious ship dramas and slash fics where in the 16-20 age frame...!
>>75326 I still say she's a dead ringer for Hama.
>>75283 Honestly, I think that Avatar is done and going back to it now would only hurt it, assuming you didn't go with the Science! Adventures of Sokka as he singlehandedly brings about the Industrial Revolution to the rest of the Avatar World. Yeah, I'd really like to see Bryke turn their hands to a new series, and see if lightning can strike twice.
>>75339 There's tons of things they could do in the Avatar world with sequels or being set in entirely different eras. Yeah, if they never moved on to another franchise, it could easily get stale and bad, but there's an area between having only one great show set in a world and having an overstretched, never-ending franchise. Bryke are talented guys who have already mentioned that they don't want to drag it out too far. I'm sure that they'd be able to make more quality shows in the Avatar-verse and know when to stop before it gets stale. I too would like to see them do new stuff in the future (and if this turns out to be a completely different show, I'll gladly watch it), but they've got their whole careers ahead of them. They can make some sequels or spin offs (if they want to, that is) and then completely different shows; there's plenty of time.
>>75340 Firstly, OMFG AWESOME! Secondly, I've been crossing my fingers ever since Avatar ended that Mike and Bryan (and their splendiferous team, let's not forget) were working on something new. I remember around the time the series ended that they were approaching Nick for a new idea and seeing how it went, and this is the first indication that they got the green light. They must've been keeping it under wraps because...well...this is the sort of thing you keep under wraps. They might have only just approved the pilot. I'm actually really hoping it is a new IP. As much as I would love revisiting the Avatar world, Mike and Bryan have a talented team behind them and after five years have the proper experience to construct an epic from scratch and make it work. I feel that if they really learnt from their experience and had the opportunity to weed out all the problems, a fresh start on something new would maximise the quality of their work. I'm hoping for something steampunky, but I'll be happy with a series set in space...
You only get a cartoon show this good from an American network like once or twice in a decade.
>>75386 All depends on your talent behind the scenes, really. I mean, look at the DCAU. That franchise was persistently shitting out diamonds for over a decade.
>>75408 Tis true. I am really enjoying their straight to DVD stuff. But i would like to see more great shows from the US that don't involve superheroes.
"imflyer's"Avatar fan-card status: REVOKED. What the FUCK?
>>75429 Just, like, his opinion, man. But he brings up a good point. What does the general population care if a language is real or not if they can't read it?
>>75430 >my face when Ninja missed the point for the nth time
>>75431 There'd be a point to miss if you had said anything other than "what the fuck." Thanks for addressing my question.
>>75430 The general population probably wouldn't give a shit, but this is a professional adaptation. Bryke went out of their way to add a bunch of depth to their story through little details like the Chinese calligraphy. It's just rude for a director of an adaptation to decide all that world-building effort and research just doesn't matter. Plus, it's disheartening to see fans of the original series just plain not give a shit about all the hard work the show's staff put into Avatar. Honestly, I've gotten to the point where I completely expect this shit from the movie itself, but this level of acceptance from some of the fans? Just what the hell? I see fans of other works being adapted that flip their shit over tiny little unimportant changes in actually good adaptations, but with this one where all the big world-building stuff is being thrown aside pointlessly, so many fans think nothing of it. It's just boggling.
>>75429 >>75430 Basically what DWC said. To not only dismiss it so easily, but to outright say it was a "detractor" is just plain stupid. I think the general argument with fans like these is fantasy = lazy. "Oh who cares if it's based on a real writing style by real people based on real cultures? Just give me the magic kung fu!" they seem to say, disregarding that the "magic" kung fu was based on real martial arts and they tried to make it look as natural as possible, which is why bending can be affected by the seasons and celestial bodies. These people don't care about the effort that went into the show. As long as they have explosions and fancy special effects, they don't care that a bunch of white heroes are running around waving their arms randomly to bend and writing gibberish. In short, they don't care about everything that distinguished Avatar from similar shows in the genre.
>>75442 >>75452 But this is why fans (fanboys?) are almost always ignored during adaptation processes. Scrapping 90% of the details is bound to happen, and fans can never accept that this adaptation isn't being made just for them, that it's called an "adaptation" because it's taking a source and converting it in a fashion that would attract audiences who weren't already attracted. Different isn't bad.
It's not a detail like something from the story, this was something on the side, that was intended as part of the world; something that was important to the creators and staff. You want different? M. Night said Pakku makes nunchucks with his waterbending. Different is a remarkably bipolar idea.
>>75453 Just because you accept the poor and the mediocre, don't expect the rest of us to do the same. >>75455 >M. Night said Pakku makes nunchucks with his waterbending Wait, what? Where? I... .................
http://io9.com/5495923/a-few-answers-from-our-airbender-qa-with-shyamalan In this interview: -Sequels. SO MANY SEQUELS! -M. Night Explains It All: Why he doesn't give a fuck about race -Sharkman screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Also, he mentions him being in one of the sequels as a stinky cameo. Also, Appa. SO MANY SEQUELS!
>>75477 >King Bumi didn't make the list >"struggling" to make Appa realistic, while Racebending is still A-OK >And while that seemed difficult, it was reassuring to hear the director talk more about the relationship between Aang and Appa, and their future trials and separations, thankfully, he thoroughly understood the character dynamic between these two. But clearly not between, say, White!Katara and her much, much older brother. >First and foremost he claimed that he picked the best actor first, and the rest follows. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA and also HA! And one more time in case you missed it: >King Bumi didn't make the list
>>75478 OH NOES A MINOR CHARACTER THAT COULD BE CUT OUT OF THE PLOT ENTIRELY AND CHANGE NOTHING HAS BEEN REMOVED!
>>75478 What part of M Night Explains It All: Why he doesn't give a fuck about race don't you guys understand
>>75483 Dude. King Bumi is awesome, and not nearly as insignificant as you seem to think he is. He's Aang's <i>only living friend from before</i>, and the conquest of Omashu is why Aang needed to go find Toph in the first place. Not to mention the White Lotus stuff. He should've rated at least, at LEAST a shout-out.
>>75486 Actually, he's one of the characters I expected to be cut in any adaptation. He's fucking awesome, but his not being there, especially in the first one, isn't too important. I mean, if he's not there, then Aang still has to find an Earthbending teacher; he just wouldn't go to Bumi first. And anyway, if they ever got around to the third movie, he could still show up as part of the White Lotus. >>75453 Cutting out the Chinese calligraphy in favor of jibberish, racelifting the cast, fucking up the culture of the Fire Nation, downplaying Zuko's scar, radically aging up Sokka, giving Aang a cross on his back, replacing Roku with a talking spirit dragon - these aren't pragmatic changes like taking out Bumi for time. These are unnecessary changes to important parts of the world-building and general aesthetics and dynamics of the original series. And like I said, it's just rude to Bryke.
>>71591 >downplaying Zuko's scar OK, that one IS a pragmatic change because honestly animated Zuko's scar is stylized to the point of being incredibly unrealistic (fire which gave him a scar that big should have massively damaged his eye far beyond the point of functioning, but his vision in that eye is only implied to be slightly less than fully functional).
>>75487 >These are unnecessary changes to important parts of the world-building and general aesthetics and dynamics of the original series. And like I said, it's just rude to Bryke. And it's not like any of these changes are improving the story. As far as I can tell it's just M Night pissing all over Avatar to make it his own. That, or I'm right and he never really loved the show as it was. He just saw it as some good ideas ruined on a kiddie animated show, and this film is his idea of how to do it "right." Which is fucking obnoxious. And yeah, disrespectful of Mike and Bryan and, honestly, the fans of the show.
>>75490 This. However I think they should have had the whole left side of live action Zuko's face scared up. Even then people would bitch.
>>75494 This.
>>75494 Why do you care? Not like you can read chinese anyways. For all you know stuff has changed so things look better. Stop being such Negative Nancies.
>>75508 Spy's sappin' my +a!
>>75508 I care because I respect the extra effort put into the original series. Also, it makes the world feel more authentic. >>75490 That's one of the things where aesthetics is more important than realism. It's symbolic of Zuko's sacrifice and Ozai's cruelty; Ozai didn't just burn him, he horribly and permanently disfigured his own son because he dared to stand up for their soldiers.
As for the arguments about eye damage, surely a firebender as expert as Ozai could produce some sort of 'burning hands' effect- more like a brand than an actual fireblast. As for the movie, I can understand them wanting to reduce the scar a little bit, for various purposes, but they do it way too much. Zuko's supposed to be, as people here have just said, seriously disfigured. It's a bit like Christopher Nolan having decided to, for 'realism' purposes, reducing Two-Face's scarring to a nasty-looking burn on his cheek.
>reducing Two-Face's scarring to a nasty-looking burn on his cheek. It's nothing like that. It's like if they realized that acid doesn't do that to a face and made it look like it would if someone threw acid on his face.
>>75517 We've had this argument before. Regardless of how it would have looked in real life, Patel's scar in this movie looks like a minor scalding, but the actual burns Zuko took is totally possible. Ear is totally scarred up and deformed, the skin on his eye and face is contracted and damaged, he can't cry out of the eye properly (The tears during the finale when he reunited with Iroh don't count, those were an animation error. He doesn't cry properly out of the burnt eye at any other time, and when you see his face up close in the same scene, the tears aren't there.) His scar is dramatically toned down, no matter what you think the scar should look like. Also, M. Night did nothing to actually address any of the concerns over the race issue, he just gave all the same answers that have already been refuted and addressed. Little surprise since Paramount hand picked people from two websites that have been very studio friendly. He's also asking for more Asian extras: http://www.aarising.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15878
>>75522 >the actual burns Zuko took is totally possible False, If the burn was that bad his eye would be unusable. Also this is me. >>75495
>>75523 Did you ever see those things about not driving drunk featuring that girl, Jacqueline Saburido? Trapped in a burning car for 45 seconds, burned on 60% of her body. She can't blink one eye due to not having an eyelid there anymore, it was fused shut and was restored with an operation, and her other wasn't as damaged; both her eyes are still usable. That's just one example, we don't know the specifics of the tissue damage, all we got was a stylization with the cartoon, so you can't say it's impossible.
>>75524 I can be cause it's a cartoon and on top of it being a cartoon it's Magic. It'd be impossible to replicate a magic cartoon wound realistically. Deal with it. The change to the wound changes nothing.
>>75525 I wasn't the one who...we're doing this same shit again, this exact same argument. I'm not even sure whether or not you're trolling anymore. I'll just paraphrase myself from before. Changing Zuko's scar to this does make a change, because Patel can cover it by adjusting the lighting in a room or sitting with a hand covering his temple. Zuko didn't have that, it's a big horrible reminder of his exile as well as his journey. Why is it impossible to replicate if they make a six legged flying bison with CGI and all these bending effects? They half-assed it, plain and simple.
>>75526 Ok.
>>75526
I like how it's argued "It's a fantasy world with no Asia, so they didn't need to cast Asians". But then it's also argued, often by those same people, that Zuko's scar has to look realistic. It's a fantasy world. Fantasy scars rules apply. That means that yes, Zuko's face should be really messed up. There are thematic reasons for it to be that bad.
>>75522 >He's also asking for more Asian extras: LOL
>>75522 >He's also asking for more Asian extras: Shit, they're still complaining. Shovel a few more asianloads on the pile.
>He's also asking for more Asian extras Yeah, see...If racelifting isn't a problem or even an issue, as they seem to claim it is? If they really did pick the best actors for the roles (including the main character being a kid with zero acting experience)? Then this damage control they're doing in terms of extras, and the assurances that Toph will be Asian make no sense. They clearly realize they've fucked up.
I think you guys are kind of missing the point. This is a Hollywood movie aimed primarily at tweens and teenagers. Dev Patel and Jackson Rathbone are supposed to be the "dreamboats" of this franchise, at least until Noah Ringer is old enough to sex up (see also: Daniel Radcliff.) They toned down Zuko's scar because they didn't want to risk making their sexy bad boy antihero unattractive. It'll bet they did makeup tests with more dramatic versions of the scar, a few executives/focus testers/whoever thought it made him look gross and unappealing, and that was that.
>>75549 The disfiguring scar didn't seem to keep the fangirls away in the tv series....
>>75550 A patch of color on a cartoon character is very different than a huge burn scar on an actor. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't have been more visceral and disturbing. I'm just saying that the change wasn't made for the sake of realism, but because they didn't want your first reaction upon seeing movie!Zuko to be "ugh what is WITH that guy's face?" They wanted you to think about how dreamy he is and THEN maybe notice something's up with his eye.
>>75552 That doesn't stop it from being a stupid reason if it's true. I've noticed a lot of people, even those who were against the protest, complain about the scar or think he has no scar at all.
>He's also asking for more Asian extras
>>75552 That's called "completely missing the point", then. Because your first reaction at looking at Zuko is SUPPOSED to be "Holy shit what happened to his face?!"
>>75554 Dudes I'm not saying it isn't a stupid reason. Because it is. I'm just offering what I see to be the most likely explanation. Like so many other things with this film: making major changes to characters for ill-conceieved reasons.
>>75552 More than just a patch of color, he also had a half melted off ear, just saying....
>>75608 That, and his eye doesn't even fully open anymore.
>>75477 This is a little old, but I find it sad that this person is more concerned with Appa's looks than the looks of the actual human cast. Between the shipwars, wank, and movie stuff, sometimes I think Avatar has one of the worst fandoms ever.
>>75668 I think that person might have been just joking. >>Between the shipwars, wank, and movie stuff, sometimes I think Avatar has one of the worst fandoms ever. It does.
>>75668 >I find it sad that this person is more concerned with Appa's looks than the looks of the actual human cast Because he ain't racist like you lot.
>>75671 someone needs to look up the definition of 'racist' again
>>75672 >>75671 You two. Make a point.
>>75672 >rac·ism >hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. >The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others. You believe that because they are white they can't play an Asian character. That is racist.
>>75678
>>75678 lol, not really funny anymore. Asians people represent Asian characters more accurately than people from other ethnic backgrounds. It's that easy.
>>75678 >because they are white they can't play an Asian character >they can't play an Asian character >because they are white There ya go, sparky. 0/10, try again.
There have been a series of tubes videos that were released and shown recently that haven't been posted here, so I figure now's a good time to post 'em. First two are two videos of a commercial for the Kid's Choice Awards. Notable moment in this on here: Soak-uh is apparently the official pronunciation.
Second half of the previous vid. Notable moment here: slime shenanigans and apparently a version of the wanted poster. Two things I gotta say here. If they were gonna use a made up language, why did they bother trying to make it look like actual ancient Chinese? Seriously, it's not like Dr. S. L. Lee was too goddamn busy or something. Second, why are they promoting this on the KCA now of all times? Avatar actually won one year and all it gets is a blurb, but now this friggin' movie has two of it's leads go up on stage? The year A:tlA won, I don't think they invited Mike, Bryan, or hell, even Jack DeSena? The dude was on All That, it's not like Nick didn't know who he was. Go up, tell a joke, accept award, get slimed, kids are happy. Instead, we get the vampire and the weeping willow. Speaking of:
Hahaha oh wow Aang's voice.
And finally, biggest news, new trailer. Apparently the one that's tied to Iron Man 2 is gonna feature the Kyoshi Warriors, not sure how legit that news is. And something I've gotta say about this here. I'll just copy-pasta/paraphrase my comment on the video. If that's Noah Ringer's voice: wayyyyy deep and husky sounding. He sounds almost like Cricket Leigh. Patel vs. Peltz: Did he just pull flames from what was in front of him? I guess firebenders really can't make their own fire. Maybe that guy saying he was a firebender extra on the movie was full of crap after all? Also, Peltz sounds like Ember Island Katara, all crying and pleading, like she's begging and afraid. Where's the kickass defiant "You can't knock me down" 'tude?! Where's the Katara who thwomped Zuko and looked smug about it? Did she get stuck in "cry mode" after her spot in that Miley Cyrus music video? Just one last point. Call me crazy, but are the other Air Nomad looking guys bowing to Aang in that shot entirely Asian? And why are they bowing? The monks were all but ready to dictate Aang's life and use him as a potential safeguard against the Fire Nation. I know Aang has a lot of ties to the Dalai Lama in his details but being a ruler isn't one of them.
oh lawd is dat sum fairy pirates
this is a fucking trainwreck.
I honestly couldn't tell Zuko had his scar in any of those shots in the trailer. There's just not enough contrast between it and the rest of his skin.
And the tweens are eating it up.
Peltz's acting just seems bad.
>>75696 That's because it IS bad.
I just wanna see Aang smile. Once.
>>75699 What do you think this is, some kind of cartoon? This is a serious drama!
>>75698 You can tell from two lines in a trailer?
>>75702 Touche', but when a trailer, something that's supposed to sell the movie with all the cool parts, just makes her come off as weepy, we gotta wonder.
>>75704 I don't think the modern employment of trailers is to show what the film is about so much as what's in the film. So many trailers today are well-made in their ability to get viewers interested (marketing), but so many are also horrifically misleading. The Last Airbender might or might not be as dramatic as it seems.
Let's take a look at M. Night's Shyamalan's upcoming film adaptation. Clareece Precious Jones is a young pale frail girl from a wealthy family in Pennsylvania. But she is haunted by visions in dreams of her relatives meeting horrible deaths, killed by a faceless cloud monster. She attends counseling at a psychiatrist named Ms. White in reality Ms. White is the responsible of Precious's visions. What a TWEEST!
>>75706 You might have a point about the modern use of trailers, but by no standard is this a particularly good one. Remember seeing the first full trailer for TDK? Or the Iron Man trailer? Those trailers made me go FUCK YEAH, and in the case of Iron Man, convinced me to go see a movie that I hadn't had a lot of interest in. The trailer for the Last Airbender, something which hits me right in the middle of a huge fandom of mine, is disappointing me further. Summarized - This trailer is fail, the movie is going to fail on multiple levels and it makes me sad.
>>75684 I was just watching a recorded episode of Spongebob (don't ask) and this promo came on, but the announcer pronounced his name as Sokka, not Soak-uh. I'm guessing that they're running two version of it: one with the movie pronunciation and one with the show.
>>75706 Yeah, too true. Plus, there's also times when a trailer is intentionally misleading for the purposes of marketing. Like how the movie Kangaroo Jack played itself up as a kooky adventure with a talking kangaroo, but it was actually a single segment in the movie, which was a hallucination that wasn't really important to the plot anyway. Or Jarhead showing scenes of intesne combat. I believe it worked in both cases, though.
>>75708 What about the trailer is "fail?" Specify (link to) which trailer you're talking about.
The trailer makes it look like it's a remake of Waterworld, just this time it's Ice instead of Water and some mystical mumbo jumbo. Right?
>>75711 Which other trailer can he possibly be referring to? We've discected all the previous ones already. >>75712 At least they won't have to CGI out a receeding hairline for Ringer.
>>75708 I'm hoping the supporters realize they're to blame for not only allowing this to happen but fueling it up instead. Hopefully they'll look back and ask themselves "how could I be a supporter of Avatar Airbender Evolution?! The guilt!"
>>75714 They'll probably just vanish.
>>75686 This makes me want to vomit bend D:
Another casting call, in Philly, asking for Korean and Japanese kids: http://www.facebook.com/PAAFF?ref=nf >The Last Airbender - Searching for Individuals of ASIAN DESCENT (Phila, PA) They are auditioning kids aged 6-12 of Japanese & Korean descent for a speaking role. Must be available bet 3/22/2010 - 5/22/2010 (Dates are tentative) Email them at CastingAirbender@gmail.com or call 267-702-2041. In the subject of the Email... include your ethnic Background. Include: Photo, Contact info, Availability, Measurements & age. Pretty sure Philly has it's own Chinatown and a huge ass pool of Vietnamese, why specify Japanese and Koreans? Would somebody like Dee Dee Rickets or whomever is throwing this together even be able to tell? Also, once again, they say to be open from now until May 22nd, literally all of a month and two weeks away from the premier. Some people speculate that it's possibly a secret audition for Toph. Thoughts?
>>75723 Aren't the gold rolls supposed to be sent out already?
>>75716 But eventually The Last Airbender will air on TV. They won't vanish because it will chase them. >>75723 Toph and/or sequel auditions perhaps.
>>75740 Looks like they accidentally started to color his face again. That happens to me sometimes. I should probably tell this person before they get made fun of.
>>75689 So, just spent a minute counting... Being generous, there's maybe 13 seconds of new footage in the "new" trailer. Also, 4 seconds of new LOL audio. Seriously, what's up with that kid's voice?
>>75745 That better be a goddamn Fire Sage there.
>>75745 That actually is a lot better edited than any other trailer we've seen.
>>75745 >AYAHBENDAH Crazy japs get a cooler trailer than we do :/
Not being able to understand the lame crap they're saying helps.
>>75786 What also helps is the strength of such a ridiculously deep voice. Even though the one in the English trailer is almost/about as deep, the one in Japanese sounds just so much more serious and dramatic. Makes me want to actually give this movie a shot, against what my entire brain is telling me to do. (Not going to, though, don't worry. Gah!)
>>75804 >Toph
>>75804 'twas posted a while back, and, as you can see from the caption, doesn't have manga designs at all, just something like test drawings for the artist.
>>75806 Mari here is right. She just drew these out so that she could sorta "apply" for the position. This is the comic: Though I wonder if it's a different artist for the cover.
>>75808 That's the movie comic, I believe, drawn by storyboard artist Joon Choi. Nina Matsumoto is drawing the prequel comic.
>>75809 I can't believe they would recruit Oriental artists to do the comic, when in the series the original artists were clearly of white European decent! This is reverse racebending.
>>75809 Yep. Nina drew the prequel, the cover of which is to the side. I've only seen a few of the pages for the adaptation, but they're pretty much in keeping with the style of the cover as far as I can tell.
>>75809 Ah, my mistake. Ali posted the prequel comic by Nina Matsumoto. Also, did anybody else notice that they're already marking it as a "Summer Blockbuster"? Stay classy, Paramount. Seriously, though. Even if it wasn't for the failure of the casting, the movie is opening the same weekend as Twilight, (And Joel Schumacher's "Twelve," whatever that's worth.) as well as the general time-frame as movies like "Toy Story 3" and "Jonah Hex," even movies without problems have trouble competing against stuff like that. Also, a quote from Shyamalan regarding directing the third Twilight movie (http://moviesblog.mtv.com/2010/03/29/another-breaking-dawn-director-to-consider-m-night-shyamalan/): >I would've loved to be-- I love the series, and Catherine [Hardwicke's] movie, it was one of my favorite movies of that year," he said. "Really, I thought tonally, it was a perfect movie. I called her up after I saw 'Twilight' and was like 'That was amazing.' So I'm a big fan. So, is this evident of why he chose Rathbone? Or evident that M. Night liked the Twilight movie? Good god, how would he handle the fang c-section or the spine breaking baby? Also: >Shyamalan just recently worked with "Twilight" star Jackson Rathbone on "The Last Airbender," a live-action adaptation of the popular Japanese anime series "Avatar: The Last Airbender." God damn it, this shit again?
>>75808 I just love how Zuko looks "white" here too. Because we all know that they wanted 100% white stars from the beginning, but when they thought that would be too blatantly whitewashing, they decided to make the villains brown instead, as if that would make everything all better and shut up people demanding diversity. If they can take artistic liberties and make Zuko lighter, why can't they make Sokka and Katara look darker too? >>75815 So ShamWow's a Twatlight fan, eh? He has even worse taste than I thought. >Good god, how would he handle the fang c-section or the spine breaking baby? I bet he'd LOVE to direct that scene himself to score some more "horror" cred. >Shyamalan just recently worked with "Twilight" star Jackson Rathbone on "The Last Airbender," a live-action adaptation of the popular Japanese anime series "Avatar: The Last Airbender." The series is so Asian-based, people keep mistaking it for actual Japanese anime, but then you still have people in denial about the ethnicity of the characters and thinking that having them be accurately represented isn't important. Massive fail.
>>75815 >I would've loved to be-- I love the series, and Catherine [Hardwicke's] movie, it was one of my favorite moneymaker of that year," he said. "Really, I thought tonally, it was a perfect ripoff. I called her up after I saw 'Twilight''s silly fans, just lining up for to get robbed, and was like 'That was amazing.' So I'm a big fan. Fixed that for you. The movies are better than the books [it's hard to be worse] but M. Night would have to be clinically insane to call that one of his favorite movies of the year. I found myself feeling hopeful with the Japanese trailer, but quickly tampered down on that optimism. It's poison and will only hurt me later. :<
>>75820 >The movies are better than the books But that's like saying getting hit by a car is better than getting hit by a bus.
>ASN >Reasonable moderating >laughingtears.jpg
>>75827 So what's going on here? ASN is pretty biased about the whole casting issue. I'm surprised they still allow threads discussing it. IIRC, there were a few decent mods, though. SMBH comes to mind. But it's been a long time since I left ASN and I don't plan on going back. Once in a while I do get a sudden urge to visit, but then I'm usually reminded of why I left in the first place.
MNS interview transcript is up. It is full of horrors and idiocy, surprising no one. http://io9.com/5504967/shyamalan-addresses-airbenders-race-controversy-and-answers-your-questions
>>75832 >No Cabbage Salesman MOTHERFUCKER!
>>75832 >No Jeong Jeong
Maybe it's just me being retarded, but I didn't see a rational reason for whitewashing the cast in there at all. Just some crap about all dark skinned people looking the same or something.
>>75835 Provide your case for why they should have not been Caucasian. Unless you can't.
>>75836 >the usual troll nonsense we've already talked about a thousand goddamn times Just stop. Seriously. It's starting to look pathetic.
>And there's a section of the Earth Kingdom that's African American. >African American >calling all black people "African American"
>>75834 So, from what I'm hearing, there's no Jeong Jeong and no Bumi. There is, however, Pakku and obviously Iroh. It kind of feels like we're going to be missing out on half the Order of White Lotus guys. Grounding Sokka into more of an action-y role way back in Season 1 kind of defeats the purpose of Pian-Dao.
>>75839 My only hope for these movies has always been that Piandao never makes it into them. Could I be that lucky? Probably not.
Remember back at New York Comic Con 2008, when Mike and Bryan did that panel? And they were like, "Oh hey, we have super-exciting character designs from the live action film! So great!" And then they showed all the designs from Ember Island Players? 1) yes LOL NOT SUCH A JOKE AFTER ALL APPARENTLY 2) Does anyone know where I can find video of that part of the panel? It seems like Viacom yanked it from YouTube at some point, but I want to go back and see exactly what they said.
>>75837 >I'm going to complain about something, but when asked to explain my point, I will call someone a troll and completely avoid answering the question Ok.
>>75839 Not in the first movie anyways.
>>75842 Because we've already had this discussion over, and over, and over again. Why should we explain it again just so you can continue to ignore the response.
>>75842 Shut the fuck up and stop wasting our time you fucknugget obfuscating troll.
>>75845 I accept your secession.
>>75836 Because, dumbass, the original characters look Asian/Inuit and live in ancient magical Asia. So how about you use your amazing intellect and give us a case as to why they should be white?
>>75836 Give it up already. Like >>75845 said, no matter how many times it's been explained to you, you choose to ignore it. Fine, whatever, but stop asking people to repeat themselves if you're going to disregard everything they say. You just look like an ignorant troll when you pull this crap. I don't know why you even bother posting to these threads anymore. In short, NO U provide your case for why they should have not been Asian. Unless you can't.
>>75850 You (multiple folks) are the ones asserting that the characters are undeniably Asian. You are the ones challenging conventional understanding. You are the ones who must make the case. So far, all you've said is "the story and design elements are inspired heavily by Asian culture." That, in no way, proves that any of the characters are Asian and is a subjective observational assumption at best. They're fictional characters in a fictional universe depicted in an artistic medium well known for creating characters of ambiguous or even intentionally composite ethnicities, yet you insist that they are unarguably Asian and cannot under any circumstances be depicted otherwise. Not one person involved in the creation of the show has openly stated any character is of any ethnicity. You're the ones jumping to conclusions and telling everyone else to follow. You explain it. inb4 more posts along the lines of "but you will just ignore it so why should I bother" that took longer to type out than it would have taken to just make your case
Dear Ninja, Climb a wall of dicks you candle sniffing fuckfence. It’s been a huge disappointment to hear about the casting for Avatar’s live-action movie. The show was heavily influenced by Asian culture, some of the characters were even modeled after Asian members of the crew. But now, with the pre-dominantly white cast, it feels like all the Asian/Eastern influences, origins, what have you, were just a backdrop for these characters. But I always believed they were Asian, or even mixed Asian. And that belief added a little extra pride in working on such a great show. The appreciation Mike & Bryan had for Asian culture, the interest it generated in the fans, gave ME greater appreciation for my own culture. So it’s just hard to believe they couldn’t find one Asian actor to hold any of the lead protagonist parts. Not one? This film is going to feel like some other Avatar story. - Dao Le, Animatic Editor, Avatar: The Last Airbender Fuck off.
>>75854 Note how he specifically words his statement to stand as his own subjective opinion rather than a consummate agreement. "I always believed" instead of "we created them as." On an unrelated note, I'm not a fan of scented candles but I do enjoy rock walls.
>>75852 Once again, they look Asian/Inuit and live in ancient magical Asia, dipshit.
>>75857 Create a comprehensive list of physical characteristics entirely unique to the Asian race and pictures of characters from the show with said characteristics. You can't say "they look Asian" and end your thought process there. Show why. Also a map that shows Avatar's world is Asia.
Jesus christ y'all are hostile
>>75859 Also, because you are holding "they look Asian" as empirical evidence that they are indeed Asian, your list of features must be completely and entirely Asian. Meaning if there is or has ever been a single person with that characteristic who wasn't of Asian descent, or if this single feature is not shared among all races, your argument is invalid due to the feature not being uniquely Asian or is shared among racial groups. These are the parameters you must work under if you stipulate the existence of racial distribution and that someone is of a race just be looking like it.
>>75860 It's alright Mil, Ninja's just being a super-double-hurricanrana-fuckstick who likes to have the same argument 50 times a thread :D Here have an epic /sp/ thread about Roger Clemens running from steroid investigators :P
>>75859 Well, they lack the Caucasian double-eyelid, the pronounced brow, and the pronounced, thin nose. They mostly have skin tones of various shades of yellow and brown. They don't have the more rounded face that's typically a white trait; instead their chins are more pointed. Do some of the character have a couple of these typically European features along with the more typically East Asian features? Yeah, because like you said, features vary amongst ethnic groups. Most of the characters in Avatar look Asian/Inuit - the others look ambiguous. Not white, ambiguous. And considering that the rest of them look Asian and live in ancient magical Asia (with absolutely no ancient magical Europe/Africa/America/Australia existing), only a goddamn moron would think they're white.
>>75863 In reference to "it's ancient magical Asia:" Create a comprehensive list of GEOGRAPHIC, FLORA, AND FAUNA characteristics entirely unique to the Asian CONTINENT and pictures of GEOGRAPHY, FLORA, AND FAUNA from the show with said characteristics. The whole "if you list something and say it means they're in Asia, but that something appears in more than one continent, your argument is invalid" thing carries over. Also address the fictional composite issue.
>>75864 How about you go take an art history class? Maybe you'll learn something!
>>75865 What does art class have to do with them being Asian or in Asia? Also, you forgot to call me dipshit.
>>75866
>>75866 lol wat is architecture? wat is painting styles? wat is Chinese Calligraphy? wat is Asian cuisine? It seems you're preoccupied with geography when culture is what I was talking about. Most of the culture presented in Avatar is taken from Asia. There's a bit of other stuff in there, but it's very small in proportion.
So anyway, non-elite firebenders needing an outside source has been confirmed, huh. Why is it that every time we hear a rumor about this movie that sounds beyond stupid and ridiculous, it comes true?
>>75868 Then replace "geography" with "culture." Chinese calligraphy is the only direct evidence of them being Chinese, but this is invalidated by them speaking English because the written Chinese language doesn't correspond to the spoken Chinese language and therefore isn't wholly Chinese. My point is that there is no factual reason to believe they are Asian and cannot be portrayed otherwise, and arguing that they are Asian and cannot be portrayed otherwise is, in irony, prejudiced emotional sooth-saying.
>>75870 Yeah the Chinese Calligraphy is the only thing that makes them Asian. The fact that they look Asian, dress in Asian clothes, make Asian architecture, eat Asian food, paint in Asian painting styles, practice Asian religion, fight with Asian martial arts. This added to the fact that they do not look white, do not wear European clothes, do not have European architecture, do not have a European diet, do not have European style painting hanging around, and do not practice European religions clearly makes them white. Thank you for your wisdom.
>>75852 The fucking IP SERIES BIBLE said it was based on ancient China. The SERIES CREATORS said they wanted to do an Asian inspired fantasy series instead of a European based one. The official ARTBOOK states the series has "inspiration drawn from a diverse array of cultures, including those of China, Japan, India, and the Inuit". And that's just the tip of the iceberg. So are you dense? Are you retarded or something? The evidence is right in front of your face and you refuse to see it.
>>75871 Uhg. What the hell happened to that sentence? Anyway, I don't know why people are still defending this movie. It looks nothing like the show, and after all the interviews Shyamalan has given, it's pretty damn clear that he doesn't respect the source material.
These are my five bucks (It'd be shorter if it was two cents.) The animatic director said many of the characters were modeled after themselves, family members and co-workers. Mike and Bryan have both said their world is one based primarily off China. The characters have Asian (Or Inuit) names, hairstyles, clothing, foods, homes, spiritual beliefs, fighting styles, a written language, and in some cases, exact facial features and accents. It stands to reason that their "fictional ethnicities" are essentially Asian and Inuit, with a fantasy eye color, because otherwise they'll have to rely on tired stereotyping and being marked as "others" to have to prove otherwise by the logic of that argument. How far (and for that matter, why?) does an Avatar character have to go just to somehow prove that they share a face with the real world ethnicity they're based on when they share so much else? Their world is essentially populated entirely by people who physically and culturally resembles East Asians (East specifically because, culturally and ethnically, there *is* no "Asia"), without the actual continent itself to lend them the nomenclature. Just as in anime, comics, and other stylized animation and visual storytelling medium, if a character's ethnicity and outward appearance is somehow in doubt, you rely on their cultural markers, surroundings, and background in order to make the distinction. In some cases, this is hard to do, and in others, it is not, and sometimes when you rely on old stereotypes and cliches, it's offensive. Take Bleach as one example of this. Soul Society and the entire concept of Soul Reapers/Death Gods/Shinigami is deeply entrenched in Japanese culture. The character Ichigo has orange hair, and perhaps the art style can make him "look White," but as a departure from the typical reasons for outrageous hair color in anime and manga, Ichigo often finds himself ostracized and bullied growing up because of his odd hair color. Even his enemies make it a point when they're looking for him. Making him White would fundamentally change his backstory and character. Avatar: The Last Airbender is another easy example, even if it's not Anime. Here, there are no characters with strange hair colors, and aside from a few ill-founded arguments over the child characters' facial features, a huge number of the characters are, at the least, not Caucasian/White. Despite this, in another show of Hollywood exclusion, the studio prioritized and chose, white leads for this film, to play characters who's culture and people were integral to who they were. The art style isn't meant to be ambiguous. This is covered in this essay: http://www.matt-thorn.com/mangagaku/faceoftheother.html It was posted to the first or second movie thread, by the way. Another long-ago-addressed point. That said, we really would be better off if we simply ignore Ninja's comments. He's trolling, and he's damn good at it.
>>75861 I'll use small words so you can follow along. The world of Avatar is an Asian-inspired world. Hopefully, the movie supporters haven't become so deluded as to deny this simple fact that has been known since the show premiered five years ago (although it wouldn't surprise if they were that deluded). The influence is all over the show, not just in it's written language. Really, you have only to watch the show with something other than your ass to understand this. When dealing with the population of a fantasy world, the only logical conclusion to be made is that the people who should populate it should reflect the world it is inspired by. In this case, that should be a world populated exclusively with Asians and Inuits.
Notice, if you will, how Ninja never actually gives any empirical evidence to prove why the the characters are Caucasian, or to the European influences found in the show.
>>75832 Finally read this interview, so now it's time for my rant du jour of a response. He starts off as describing the show as "schizophrenic" (but in a good way, really!) in the first paragraph. Very reassuring. >Srry gaiz, I dunno how to do comedy, but I don't want to admit it. It's just stupid little kiddie stuff anyway, so there's some in the beginning, but then I make it more MATURE and GROWN-UP and EDGY! I am such a cool and awesome guy. Number of times he said "Edgy/Edgier": 6 Actually saying "dark(er) and edgy/edgier": 2 There's a trope for that. He put in Momo, but only because his kids got pissed and stopped speaking to him for daring to suggest he might not be in the film. Too bad they didn't put up the same fight against whitewashing Katara and Sokka. It's also not enough for Momo to just be Momo, he needs to have a special ~*purpose*~ in the film. I feel a TWEEEST coming on... Momo defeats the Fire Lord! No... Momo IS the Fire Lord! Gasp! He claims he loves "The Bounty Hunter" and "the deserter character" and doesn't even know their names. Additionally, he's not putting in the Cabbage Merchant because this is LORD OF THE RINGS style SRS BSNS. And to him, cabbages are not SRS BSNS. :( So who will he be for the cameo? Or is he planning to give himself a more glorified role to match his bloated ego later on? >And at that time, they [Mike and Bryan] didn't even know where the movie was going to end, even who Katara was going to end up with. They only mentioned it was in the SHOW'S DNA and that they had Kataang planned FROM THE BEGINNING. Is he showing Zootara sympathies, or was he just trolled along with the other Zutards? >The only thing I would do different — I don't even know if I should say this, as it's so far into the future, but I want to know what happens to Zuko's mom... This is downright blasphemy. I want to know what happened to Ursa too, but I do NOT want him to have the chance to do his own "interpretation". He'd probably make some contrived bullshit story and have her come rescue Azula with wuv and hugs and turtleducks for the finale's TWEEEST. I hope to hell he never gets this far. >Cue completely unsurprising lameass excuses for the Racebending with the promise that Toph will be Asian. It's bit too late to appease people with that now, Shammy. >So when we watch Katara, my oldest daughter is literally a photo double of Katara in the cartoon. I'm sure you gave her a really good explanation of why lily-white Nicola freaking Peltz was your number one choice for Katara then, right? >So more so than the show, it will have a much more diverse ethnic backgrounds to it. It's not an agenda for me, but it's something I'm super proud of. No, just no. Fuck. You. >I love the show and I love almost everything in the series. Which is why nothing in this movie looks ANYTHING like the series. One more point of interest: He really got heavy with the name dropping. LotR, George Lucas, Shakespeare, Miyazaki. It's all very telling to me. It says that this movie is a final grasp for glory from an over-ambitious, egotistical director who can't accept his continuing descent into failure and obscurity. It's the last hope for fame to a desperate man and he's not going to let a silly little thing like race issues get in his way.
>>75880 > It's the last hope for fame to a desperate man and he's not going to let a silly little thing like race issues get in his way. Which is funny, because Hollywood would actually give him MORE street cred if he insisted on casting an all minority blockbuster.
>Soul Society and the entire concept of Soul Reapers/Death Gods/Shinigami is deeply entrenched in Japanese culture. I agree with all you said and I'm sorry to divert from this topic but just so you know Shinigami aren't all that deeply entrenched in Japanese culture. Japanese mythology doesn't have any native death gods. Though Izanami has been called one, threatening to kill 1000 people everyday, drawing comparisons to Lilith and Ishtar. Shinigami is just the Japanese name for the Grim Reaper which was imported to Japan in the 19th century. Kubo's interpretation of them is actually much closer to the Korean Jeoseungsaja, or the "Emissaries of Jeoseung" (literally, "That World" as opposed to Yiseung, "This World"). Though Jeoseung is generally referred to as the "Korean Hell" it's much more like Hades and other mostly non-fiery underworlds. It's actually thought of as the source of life and death is a return. Anyway, information on saja is a bit scarce but what I know is that they dress traditionally, of course, wearing black durumagi and gat that obscure most of their features. And like in Bleach, Korean swords were highly customized to each individual owner. Saja themselves have an "overworked" appearance, very pale, and are often compared to carrion birds. They come in threes, ultimately reaping the soul and guiding it through the misty forests on the way to Jeoseung. They were eventually absorbed into later religions like Taoism and Buddhism and became corrupt bureaucrats working for Yeomna who would abuse the dearly departed if not given proper offerings.
What Ninja said in >>75852 is probably his only valid point. Personally, the assertion that every character is undeniably Asian is a bit much. Now, I'm not saying that a character in the show is definitely not Asian or that any of them are Caucasian. The writing style, the mythology, the clothes, music, martial arts, etc. are all definitely Asian and Asian-inspired. But Avatar has a similar artstyle to anime, a very stylized medium of animation. Like Shyamalan stated, anime is really open to interpretation. That's how girls watching Sailor Moon in both America and Japan can envision themselves as Sailor Moon, or boys with Dragonball Z. However, Avatar is much more culturally distinct than those two examples, and has more realistic character designs. For many characters such as Toph or Zuko, if someone suggested they were Caucasian, you'd laugh at them. But when watching the show, I didn't pay much mind to it. I know that the Fire Nation mirrors WWII Japan, but I didn't consider Azula or Mai Japanese. Instead I took the show on it's own merits: An Asian inspired fantasy with just enough ambiguity to open it up to the viewers interpretation. Some people view everyone as Asian, and some don't. It's a matter of preference and the only point of Ninja's that stacks up. The movie casting is terrible, though. I highly doubt that the "best actors" were chosen for each role. When Shyamalan stated that Ringer was a double of Aang, that confirmed my suspicions that he knows nothing about what he's talking about. He looks less like Aang than many other applicants, and many of which had more martial arts training than him. He has no acting experience. Katara and Sokka should not be played by a rich white girl and her pale vampire friend. And great idea casting everyone else as bit parts or villains. Great way to raise our kids' self esteem. TL;DR In regards to the show, the argument that they are all Asian is personal preference. But they are not Caucasian. The movie, however, is a disgrace and should not have hired Caucasians for the roles they are in now.
>>75878 >implying I think the characters are Caucasian >implying I don't think they are Asian >implying I'm defending the casting decisions >implying anyone should give a single fuck about the fidelity of a film adaptation of a lengthy, detailed television show >implying if the cast were Asian the movie would be any less shitty than it will be >implying implicatory implications So far, the responses have been "words, words, words, here's a link with more words, I have yet to refute your point and am comfortable making assumptions based on no factual evidence." If a single one of you who genuinely believes the cast should have been Asian admits that your belief is based on essentially nothing but pissy fanboy assumptions, I will never be the one to bring the subject up again. Until then, you're all talking out of your asses and I will coolface you at every chance I get, and you will invariably respond because you know I'm right. There's no such thing as a completely faithful adaptation. Losing details and themes is inherent in the process. You're all biased to nitpick every single detail that's lost because you know the actual details and know it isn't the same without them. Like every fanbase of every adaptation ever, you're going to lose. Deal with it. If you want the show, watch the show. If you want the show, don't watch the movie, because the movie is not the show.
>>75883 I'll agree with most of what you said, but I have a few things to nitpick about. >Like Shyamalan stated, anime is really open to interpretation. That's how girls watching Sailor Moon in both America and Japan can envision themselves as Sailor Moon, or boys with Dragonball Z. I think girls and boys can enjoy both shows, but that's neither here nor there. :P Moving on, you could argue that, say, Goku doesn't look Japanese (especially when he goes Super Saiyan) or that Sailor Moon looks like a typical Caucasian beauty with her blond hair and blue eyes, but let's think about this for a minute. I'm not really a follower of DB(Z), but I heard a lot of the story was based on a Chinese myth. People defending the trainwreck DBE film tried to reason that since Goku was really from another planet, he wasn't really "Japanese" or "Asian", but the fans who hated the movie shot that argument down right away. After all, Superman is Kryptonian, but just watch what happens if you suggest anyone other than a white actor portray him. With Sailor Moon, I used to watch that long, long ago, and there was someone who always asked me why they looked "American" if they were supposed to be Japanese. I didn't know how to explain it back then, but I did my best and said that it was probably just an art style thing, especially since no one of ANY race has naturally blue or pink or green hair. I also reasoned that the fact that they were technically all princesses of their respective planets might have something to do with it too. But you still have the same cultural cues that you do for Avatar as to what their race is: Japanese names, food, architecture, writing, spirituality, customs, etc. Not to mention, you know, living in Japan. When they came out with the musicals and the horrible live action PGSM, did they hire Caucasians? No. They just solved the hair color problem by having their hair change color when they transformed and keeping it normal the rest of the time. >In regards to the show, the argument that they are all Asian is personal preference. But they are not Caucasian. But many people, like Ninja, automatically assume that fantasy = white. "White" is the default to these people, and the "any other ethnicity" actors need to have PROOF that the characters they want to play aren't white, instead of the other way around. All the evidence for the race and cultural inspiration on Avatar is clear to anyone who's been paying attention. Sure, the "Water Tribes" or "Earth Kingdom" don't exist in real life, but what makes people automatically assume that it makes more sense to populate them with white people than the ethnicities they're clearly based on?
>>75884 Hurp durp, more idiocy and failing to address any real points that were brought up. You're just a few steps above TMC with your trolling now. Spare us your wank and just leave.
>>75883 Goku and Usagi are Asian enough that their being Japanese is never called into question among other characters within their stories. Let's put it this way. Anyone that watches enough anime has seen at least one "American" character. Usually this is the blonde with blue eyes, and is about a foot taller than anyone else. If the American is a female, odds are she'll have the biggest breasts. Depending on the show's art style, this character might also have a way more prominent nose. The foreigner characters in anime are set apart *because* they're visually different from the rest of the cast. What's more, they're called on that visual distinctness. Is Goku Japanese? Yes. Because while he might have bigger eyes than the average Japanese person in real life, none of the other Japanese characters within his show look at him and think "there's something different about this guy." And you know what? We can see this in Avatar as well. Look at Guru Pathik. The only character that looked significantly different. This was pretty much called on in the narrative as well. Because his whole thing was "we're all one world", the show staff gave him a visual appearance (as well as name and accent) that was set apart from every other character in the show. Now ask yourself this. How is Guru Pathik going to work in the movie? CAN he? Because the world is so much more "diverse" that it's not going to register that this guy is supposed to be the only really different character. So yes, it does impact the narrative. But then again, half the Order of the White Lotus is gone, and at this point Ninja is actually right. If you're a fan of the show there's just no damn reason to go to this movie. It's got nothing to do with the show anymore.
>>75886 >>PGSM >>Horrible You just completely invalidated your opinion in my eyes. That show is magically and amazing and is everything TLA should aspire to be
>>75884 lol u dumb - - - - - So, how exactly are they planning on pulling off Azula's espionage/coup and the Gaang hiding out in the FN? Since they're apparently splitting up the nations by ethnicity, how is no one going to notice?
>>75899 In all fairness, Sokka and Katara in the show were pretty dark for typical Fire Nation citizens. They and Aang got a lot of leeway in their appearance and behavior for being "from the colonies."
>>75900 Not really, there are darker skinned Fire Nation characters like Jeong Jeong, Mai's uncle and other people on the Boiling Rock. I think it was more that they said they were from the colonies to excuse their behavior and their names primarily, but not their appearance, which implies that the Gaang didn't look different enough to warrant suspicion. If everybody looks Asian or Inuit, it pretty much works out. You might make the argument that their eye color could give them away, but then you have Firebenders like Chit-Sang, who have very light blue (or green) eyes. I don't think they can quite get away with the same excuse in the movie.
>>75901 The only episodes with significant content where the gang interacts and/or walks among Fire Nation folk is in the Awakening, the Headband, the Painted Lady, Sokka's Master, the Runaway, the Puppetmaster, and the Ember Island Players. They get found out in the Awakening and Sokka's Master, and I don't really think any of those other episodes are going to make it into the film(s) unless the Fire Nation in the films consists of many ethnicities.
>>75898 I wasn't a huge fan of Sailor Moon by the time PGSM rolled around, though I'll admit it had a few interesting moments. But... Magical talking plushie cats. Sailor Luna. Dark Sailor Mercury. The creepy, remorseless and dangerous Princess Sailor Moon. SAILOR V HAS A TERMINAL ILLNESS AND DIES, WTF. There's only so much a person can take. In my view, it was pretty horrible. In short, NO.
>>75880 Wow, I hadn't read the interview before now. >Even on Nickelodeon, the comedy's broad at times, really broad at times. And then you have episodes like the "Blue Spirit" episode — I think it was episode 13 from the first season — which is just all edgy. Does he remember that they were sucking on frogs in that episode? >So when you see the monks, they are all mixed. And it kind of goes with the nomadic culture and the idea that over the years, all nationalities came together. I - what - that... makes sense? >Like when my movies go around the world, the spirituality in them, it's like Spain? That's it, done. And then other countries and other places, it's much more, "I'm not getting this. What is this?" And the United States and the UK fall into a brother/sister category in that reaction. Oh, so that's why your movies failed. We didn't understand them. And the greatest offense of all... Spoilers for a character who got cut: No cabbage merchant?! Is he mad?
>>75909 I'll give you the talking plushies and Sailor Luna fiasco, but I enjoyed Darkury, and I really really liked emotionless Serenity. She really didn't give a fuck about ANYONE except her and Endymion, girl is dedicated. Minako's illness was delicious fuel for the ReixMinako shippers, and it worked like a charm. Plus you had to have known she'd come back to life, it's Sailor Moon. The entire cast is killed at least once per season and always come back! k I promise my derail is over
>>75910 >>Like when my movies go around the world, the spirituality in them, it's like Spain? Spain? What did we do now? 9_9
>>75883 >>But when watching the show, I didn't pay much mind to it. (...) but I didn't consider Azula or Mai Japanese. <- Mai is the paradigm of Yayoi features.
>>75913 Oh no, you guys are in the clear. Spain is spiritual enough to understand what Sham's films really mean. He's like Miyazaki!
>>75883 > An Asian inspired fantasy with just enough ambiguity to open it up to the viewers interpretation. Some people view everyone as Asian, and some don't. It's a matter of preference and the only point of Ninja's that stacks up. I'll just disagree here. It wasn't all that ambiguous at all. It would be one thing if they just used the Martial Arts and philosophy aspect and then applied it to the world they were creating.( similar to what movies like the Matrix did) But when you look at clothing , names, written language which was all Kanji/Calligraphy , whatever you want to call it , i don't see how anyone could see these characters as White. I don't see it as a "preference" at all, except in the case of Paramount. They clearly preferred the main cast be White.
>>75918 All in all, this issue about whether or not the characters in the show are Asian began when Paramount screwed up the casting. Like I said before, the casting is terrible. And prior to the movie, people weren't arguing about this. Instead it was all about Mike and Bryan trolling shippers and whatnot. Also, I'm not saying that the ethnicity of each character is up to personal preference. What I should have said is that in regards to the series and the series alone, viewing the cast as even having specific ethnicities is not important to the enjoyment of the story. You can view the Fire Nation as Japanese, the Water Nation as Inuit and you can also not even focus on that, instead focusing on the story and the characters. Each Nation has different cultures, clothes, bending, and technology to differentiate between the them, meaning that you don't have to use ethnicity alone. Dear God, I'm rambling. In short. The characters aren't white. You can view them as being Asian if you want or just view them as being members of the four nations. Whether you think they are or aren't doesn't negatively effect your viewing experience. The movie is the exact opposite. They should hire actors who resemble the characters because changing it like this is disgraceful.
>>75921 Disgraceful to whom, exactly? The characters aren't real and can't have their feelings hurt. The fans that view the characters as "Asian" can be disappointed, but not proven right. Fuck, the most of the voice actors were white! Save for Dante Basco and Mako.
>>75924 To the original character design that Mike and Bryan made and that the fans are accustomed to. Katara doesn't look like Peltz.
>>75925 It's a disgrace to the design? What about the design that the guys working on the movie made? What about their feelings? Why the double standard?
>>75926 Because while you can't accept an adaptation to be 100% faithful, it should have at some resemblance to the original. In my personal opinion, Shyalaman's redesigns are rather radical, and they just don't look aesthetically pleasing.
>>75884 >>There's no such thing as a completely faithful adaptation. Losing details and themes is inherent in the process. You're all biased to nitpick every single detail that's lost because you know the actual details and know it isn't the same without them. >>Like every fanbase of every adaptation ever, you're going to lose. Deal with it. Take a look at >>75707 There's a difference between "adaptation" and "putting a nice meal in a blender until it becomes an insipid puree". The Last Airbender is closer to the second than the first, can you blame people for complaining and protesting? There have been many good cartoon-to-film adaptations... just not American.
>>75933 Don't bother. By Ninja's logic there's absolutely nothing that could make this a bad movie. It can only be a "different interpretation" no matter how removed it is from the source material. It could literally take place in space and be done entirely through pantomime and he'd still argue for it using that same logic.
>>75934 You're right, and you still wouldn't be able to prove me wrong. I like how there are at least three separate anons dogging my argument (while missing my main point completely and coming up with ridiculous shit I've never, ever said [I'm the one who ignores posts? What a tweest!]) who openly admit to not knowing the Asian influences of the show. You can't read Chinese. You can't identify the different styles of martial arts. You can't recognize the geographic inspirations, or the legends and religious text references, or (with the exception of one) name the clothing origins, yet you parade about as if it isn't the same without them. You're proving my point that the characters being Asian has nothing to do with whether they're the same character or not.
>>75936 >You can't read Chinese. You're right. I can't read Chinese. I can, however, read Japanese, which uses many of the same ideograms. >You can't identify the different styles of martial arts. Actually, I recognized the Tai Chi of Waterbending pretty much by the fifth episode. And Toph clearly uses Southern Praying Mantis Kung Fu. >You can't recognize the geographic inspirations, You mean like the Japanese style pagodas prevalent in the Fire Nation architecture? >or the legends and religious text references, Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Aang's test to see if he was the next Avatar almost exactly like how they figure out who the reincarnation of the Dhali Lama is? >You're proving my point that the characters being Asian has nothing to do with whether they're the same character or not. And you're proving our point that you exist in a bubble and assume that everyone is as blind to other cultural influences as you are. And you're also proving your lack of reading comprehension, since you know what? I was agreeing with you. It's NOT fair to judge this movie by the same measures we judged the show. It's NOT the show. It should exist as its own intellectual property, and be judged solely on its own merits and flaws, separate from what it was "Based On". Having said that, even if the movie existed in a bubble and I'd never seen the animated series, I STILL would this this movie looks like generic crap, and I'd avoid it solely on the basis of the creative mind behind it.
>>75911 >I really really liked emotionless Serenity. She really didn't give a fuck about ANYONE except her and Endymion, girl is dedicated. But that was way too OOC for her. Anime and manga Usagi was always the upbeat, loving, selfless type. Not to say she never got angry or had depression, but come on, this is the girl that tried to save the Messiah of Silence that could wipe out the planet, tried to save countless villains that would be happy to kill her (like Galaxia, who killed her friends and lover and sent them after her as mindless zombies in the manga) AND refused to destroy the Galaxy Cauldron in the manga even though that meant she'd potentially have to keep fighting battles forever. Caring only about a lover and the world be damned is more like something Michiru would do. Not that I blame her. And now I'll try to stop derailing this thread myself. >>75915 Wow, I thought that was Azula and Mai cosplay there for a minute. They should have hired actors that looked like THIS for the movie, not guys like sparkly vampires. >>75924 >Fuck, the most of the voice actors were white! Save for Dante Basco and Mako. It's been proven that this argument is irrelevant. They did get more ethnic voice actors later on for other characters, though. But if you expect the voices of a character to always match what they look like, then you can't have talking animals, aliens, mutants, robots, or anything like that. And lots of boys would be played by adult women. >>75936 See, that's you ASSuming most people watch the series with their ASS like you apparently do and can't recognize any of the cultural, religious, geographic, or other influences. Many of us can and do.
http://www.ugo.com/movies/shyamalan-on-racebending >Despite the protestations from this small yet vocal group, Night still calls his film the most culturally diverse tent-pole movie ever made in Hollywood. Fucking insane. Every time I hear this argument I want to scream. Taking one of the biggest racefail castings in a movie and touting it as a good thing, and "more diverse than the show" is simply mindboggling. What kind of warped, backwards thinking causes them to try to make this claim?
>>75940 I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is the writer/director that wrote, cast and played HIMSELF as a visionary martyr that would bring about a golden age via his writing. In the same movie in which he killed a film critic. I'd be scared to meet anyone that doesn't think that's a sign of a deeply narcissistic mind.
There's one thing I've noticed about the race argument that's come out of all this. Some people's racism isn't obvious or apparent even to themselves. People who are insisting that the characters in this show are ambiguously white (despite all other indicators to the contrary) really can't see past their own interalised racism as perpetuated by modern media. They're so freaked out by the very implications that their heroes might not be white, it's sad really. They also seem content to ignore common tropes in animation that have been around since cartoons were invented and instead interpret them to mean that the characters are of course white. For instance, they've all got large eyes! Well, that's because large eyes is a denotation of their youth. They speak english with modern slang! Yes, that's because the show's first market was North Amercia, so it has to be understood by its target audience. Most of the voice actors are white! An animated character isn't just their voice actor, if that was true then Bart Simpson should be a girl. The creators of the show also gave that nice detail of eye colour not as an indicator of race, but as an indicator of elemental affinity. It is a pan-Asian fantasy setting and the characters are of course, fantasy pan-Asian people. No ifs, ans or buts.
>>75943 >Everyone who thinks the casting is okay is a vile, evil racist. Even if they don't know it. Amazing argument, sir or ma'am.
>>75945 Hey goddamnit! I didn't say evil or vile, I just said racist! Humans are racist little creatures in their caveman brains. But it's our ability to overcome those tendencies that makes us not cavemen. What I was pointing out specifically was that people have a lot of internalised racism that they are completely unaware of until something like this hits the fan. Then we get it out and the open and challenge people's perceptions about what race means to individuals and humanity at large. I grew up with prejudices of all kinds, against white people, the local native tribes, hell even other Mexicans. These things weren't something I was born with, they were instilled in me by my environment and upbringing. But as I grew up I had experiences that helped me see past what I was raised to believe. My point is, people can be raised with certain beliefs that can later be challenged, and the racebending issue is doing just that.
>>75946
>>75946 So let this movie be learning experience for those who don't understand the "racism" in the casting. Or, you know, we could just spoon-feed you your un-racist asian cast and no one takes away an experience from watching this fucking movie. Yeah, forget trying to bring in new fans, fuck them. THEY AREN'T EVEN PEOPLE. TRU FANS ONLY, SHAMALAMADINGDONG, QUIT SHITTING ON US
>>75943 >>75946 Just ignore Ninja, he's proven he can no longer make any valid responses to this discussion. You seem pretty spot on. I think another factor is that when it comes to race, Americans usually view things in terms of black and white, literally. When they think of race issues, they think of slavery and the Klan. They usually don't think about the more subtle forms of racism or race issues between people who aren't black or white. Some of them naively think we live in a "post racial" world now, and everything is sunshine and rainbows, so anyone who suggests otherwise is seen as somehow being racist themselves for even bringing up the issue. It's crazy, but that's what I've been seeing first hand with the backlash to the Racebending movement. It seems like these people only understand racist acts in terms of burning a cross on someone's lawn or painting Swastikas everywhere. And I keep seeing the argument that now that we have a black president, everything is fine and dandy, no racists here! Never mind the fact that he's already received several death threats, many of them from *white supremacists. The only solution to this problem is for us as a society to start discussing racism more frequently and earlier on with our kids instead of hiding the issue in the dark and pretending like it doesn't exist, that only makes things worse. *inb4 someone points out that black guy on Twitter and tries to use it as an example to invalidate my argument.
>>75952 >implying that new fans wouldn't be brought in with appropriate casting >implying we should be grateful about the racist cast because it's a "learning experience" 0/10
>people still concluding that an argument of ambiguous or fictional race = an argument for Caucasian casting >people still refuse to acknowledge they have 0 factual evidence proving any characters are of any ethnicity >people still unable or unwilling to see a difference between a character and the character's surroundings >people posting under the name "Ninja" who are not I I'm still jotting this down as a refusal to address my point seeing as how it is going entirely unaddressed.
>>75954 As a half-Asian person, I am slightly more offended by this post than the casting. The less attention we give to race and racism, the faster we can avoid fiascos like these. People that will be cast would be considered in just terms of "American" or "European", not trying to divide people with terms like "Asian-American" or "Scottish". It's ridiculous.
>>75915 Yayoi?
>>75961 >The less attention we give to race and racism, the faster we can avoid fiascos like these. Wishful thinking much? That's part of the problem, not the solution.
>>75964 logic fail.
>>75963 Considering this movie claims to be colorblind, yet worked out to give a movie of caucasian heroes versus brown villains, I'm pretty sure that's not going to work.
>people still refuse to acknowledge they have 0 factual evidence proving any characters are of any ethnicity >people still unable or unwilling to see a difference between a character and the character's surroundings I have a kimono. (Really. It was a souvenir from an aunt.). When I wear it I don't look ridiculous so much as I look like a guy in a costume. I'm about a half a foot taller, 40 pounds heavier, and twelve skin tones darker than the average Japanese person my age. I'm not of Asian descent. Does that t preclude me from wearing it? Hell no. But I do have to be prepared to not look as though I fit in it as well as I do someone from that culture. Racial sensitivity or whatever aside. The casting doesn't sell the look. That's the biggest problem.
>>75943 here. >>75947 Actually, I was kinda thinking about this as I was writing the post. Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away. And believe me, I would much rather have a race-appropriate cast than have this fiasco on our hands as a "learning experience". Still, things like this force these issues to bubble to the surface specifically because racism still exists. A lot of people think that because we have an African-Caucasian President that everything's cool now, but it's not. This film is showing us just that. And its films like this that perpetuate those racist tendencies on a subconscious level. After all, we still have 3 white heroes being chased around by an entire nation of brown baddies. Slice it any way you want, but that shit is wrong and just because it's business as usual in Hollywood doesn't mean we have to lap it up. We're smarter than that, we're better than that and this is the time to tell them to fuck off until they learn how to stop feeding us this tripe under the thin guise of "entertainment".
>>75975 How? Explain this to me, please. Because otherwise all I'm hearing is that I'm racist because I acknowledge that racism still exists and something should be done about it. Go on, I'm off today so I'll be around, and make it a good one!
>>75975 -10/10. Go troll elsewhere.
>>75916 >>Oh no, you guys are in the clear. Spain is spiritual enough to understand what Sham's films really mean. He's like Miyazaki! Ah I understand now! Haha, I wonder who told Shyamalan such thing... because his movies aren't particularly appreciated over here. --- I've to admit it, reading about this movie, taking time to understand the position of casting detractors, all seemed pointless to me at first. But I've learned a lot about how other people from other ethnic, social and cultural backgrounds feel and perceive the default thinking imposed by the media. It hasn't been easy because I've had to do instropsection and identify my own prejudices and the reasons behind such behavior. It's been a learning experience, but I wish these experiences didn't depend on having people or entire minoritary groups feeling alienated and despised. So I identify with >>75946 While we may still be 'cavemen', selfish competitors shaped by evolutionary conditions to identify differences as an enviromental threat to our survival, the great thing about being human is that can choose no to. Instead of acting all territorial like a group of chimpanzees, we can actually sit and listen to the other party. Actually, I say this often, when I read opposing opinions, it should be evident how these people agree on something basic, which is they want what they believe is the best for themselves and the ones they care about. Isn't it what we all wnt? So, can we realize that and let ourselves to exchange ideas and change our opinions or we really need to go all silverback to mark a totally symbolic territory?
I just wan to ask Ninja one thing. When the gag order that Mike and Bryan are currently working under is expired and they can finally give they're opinion. If they come out and say that the characters where intended to be Asian, would that be enough evidence for you? Or are you just gonna go creationist on us and deny any evidence put before you in favor of you're own belief? Cause if they come out and say that they have no problem with the casting and never intended any specific ethnicity for the characters, I'll admit I was wrong. Will you do the same?
>>75996 No. He'll say he never said they're NOT Asian. Ninja is just arguing for the sake of arguing.
If Mike and Bryan say that the characters are Asian-like, I'm all for that. But if they say that they're Asian, I would like them to point out where in Asia that they originate from.
>>75996 It wouldn't matter if they came out and said anything after the movies were already made because the movies would have already been made. If Mike, Bryan, and co wanted everyone to know for a fact that their characters were Asian, they'd have said it long ago. I'm still waiting for someone to provide direct and conclusive proof that any of the characters are Asian. This is the whole crux of the debate and no one can answer why they believe in it.
>>76004 >no one can answer why they believe in it beyond making assumptions
>>76004 they're not you fuckjob. there's no asia in that world. but they look like asians from our world, and that's reason enough not to cast three white people and an indian to play them in a fucking movie.
>>76004 Read, you dumbass. My fucking god. Oh wait, sorry, all of our responses are too long for your tiny fucking brain to comprehend. Actually, here's a tip: start watching TV with your eyes rather than your ass. It helps.
>>76009 I think we are, but no one will say it. "They look Asian" isn't empirical evidence. Once again, and again and again, that's just your opinion.
>>76014 And you can't prove they're NOT. We've given you more solid evidence for our side of the argument than you've given against. What's your fucking point?
>>76005 The burden of evidence lies with you, Ninja. You've been assailed with logical and thorough arguments from all sides, yet all you seem to be able to do in response is spout the same "Yeah, well that's just an opinion" or "But you can't PROVE that" nonsense. I would like to hear some counter-arguments from you at this point. Please, do reveal to us what empirical evidence you have that these characters are Caucasian. Prove it.
>>76016 They're...not in Asia, for starters... And yes, a lot of them are Asian-influenced in design. Katara and Sokka aren't, though, seeing as their design is more influence by Eskimos, who are Native American. So, they're more Mexican than anything. But they are definitely not in Asia and do not classify as Asian.
>>76020 They're not in Asia any more than Middle Earth is in Europe or New Zealand, but it still made sense to cast 'Lord of the Rings' with European and Caucasian actors as dictated by the settings described in the book. Also, the Inuit Tribes that live in Northern Asia do NOT qualify as Native Americans, since they aren't in America. Inuits are not Mexica. Maori are not Ojibwa. Dine are not Mohawk. Quite goddamn lumping all the tribes together under a single title like that, its aggrivating!.
>>76018 (Ninja is going to say that he's never said they're not Asian.)
>>76020 No, not Mexican, though the Sun Warriors had a few things that might look like stuff you'd find in Java, they fit early/Mesoamerican Central America better than the Water Tribes do. Inuit tibes and the people they're close to genetically are more along most of the upper reaches of North America along with Siberia. They're not technically Asian, like I said before, by virtue that the continent isn't there to give them the nomenclature, but it's just like Lord of the Rings: Nothing says the characters are "European" or "British" but the hyperspecific nature of the fantasy world, along with it's creator's intent, pretty much prevent you from simply assigning whatever racial features you want. Same goes for Avatar. It's so specific, and dictated as such by Mike and Bryan that it makes more sense to assume that the characters share something as basic as physical features with the people they're based on. That said, there *is* another side to the protest besides the characters themselves and what they look like. Sure, this is a fantasy world, and the whole issue of Eurocentric domination isn't an issue there, but this isn't just about whether or not Whites/Caucasians can believably exist in an Asian based fantasy world. People are taking offense to the casting specifically because it's a decision made in *our* world, with *our* politics and *our* history. This affects *us,* here, in the real world because it says something about the social conditions that we live in, and how it continues a major problem in one of the industries that powerfully and indiscriminately shapes American culture.
>>76023 Pretty much this. I'm not saying they're Caucasian. I've never said that in all the threads we've ever had talking about this. My main argument is since no one can prove the characters are Asian then the ethnicity of the actors shouldn't matter because they are open to interpretation. The depiction of these characters in 1) an entirely different medium 2) adapted for a screenplay that converts 10 hours of content into 1.5 hours of screentime shouldn't be held to high standards of faithfulness to source material should also be a consideration in why things are radically different. You want everyone to believe the exact opposite given how much basic logic is against you already? You want everyone to stand with you against racism? You have to make your case. Nitpicking lost details and assuming the characters must be depicted by Asian actors is not convincing in and of itself. Believing that someone wearing a kimono, using chopsticks, and practicing martial arts makes them Asian makes you the racist, because to you the only people on the planet who wear kimonos, use chopsticks, and practice martial arts are Asians and the only ones who should ever wear kimonos, use chopsticks, and practice martial arts are Asians. Make your case.
>>76026 >3) an entirely different audience >4) by an entirely different creative team
>>76026 And yet again, you don't seem to acknowledge the fact that Hollywood is institutionally racist. They're not casting white people because they believe that the ethnicity of characters in a fantasy world is open-ended, they're casting white people because they either believe themselves or believe that America can't accept Asian heroes. And if one would counter with arguments about the pool of available actors, well, the people they have playing the leads aren't exactly the gold standard. I mean, let's face it- if you're going to cast white actors and don't even bother to call up Jason Isaacs to do the live-action version of Zhao ... If NOTHING ELSE, this would've been a fantastic and obvious opportunity to give ethnic minority actors some high-profile work, and as heroes, rather than sidekicks or villains. But on one level, Ninja, you are right. This is basically entirely different than the cartoon now. It rips off some of the conceits of Avatar, the cartoon we all love, but it really isn't Avatar at its heart. And it looks like shit. Total and complete shit.
>>76026 Allright, this is a non-trolling sounding post, I'll give a reply. You say it's racist to assume that they're Asian just because of "wearing a kimono, using chopsticks, and practicing martial arts." Well, those *are* things from Asian cultures, whether or not they're used stereotypically. I don't know if I ever saw a Kimono in the series, but we did see quite a few Chinese traditional clothes, along with Hanbok and things from all over, like Vietnam. We saw foods that weren't just rice eaten with chopsticks that were actually from China, and we saw a wide variety of real martial arts, with care taken to make sure the philosophy of the art matched up with the bending style it was coupled with. Even small details like Sokka's club or the Blue Spirit mask were taken almost verbatim from a real world object (The Blue Spirit mask is a Chinese opera wizard's mask. When the cart carrying Zuko's second mask passes by, it's sign reads more or less "Earth Kingdom little theatre" so they have Chinese opera in the Avatar world.) So even if it includes things you might say are stereotypical, it isn't presented as anything out of the ordinary and also has additional details to help flesh out a very specific fantasy world. With that in mind, I have to ask this, both in general and specifically to Ninja right now: "What do the characters have to do to satisfy the question of their ethnicity, if both "stereotypes" and carefully researched cultural examples are somehow not enough?" Why do they somehow have to explicitly "prove" their ethnicity before a studio will think twice before prioritizing white actors to play these characters? If we go by Hollywood's other adaptations, they somehow have to be more Asian *than* Asian before they'll cast an Asian or Asian American. Take a look at "The Weapon." A story about superhero Tommy Zhou, created by a Dutch-American writer (white creator, just like A:tLA), in a movie adaptation by a different creative team for a presumably "different audience," (just like this movie.) The character is explicitly Asian-American this time, and it often features in his story; he reflects on his American upbringing and the trouble of reconciling it with his Asian (specifically from Shanghai) ancestry. And who did they cast to play him? Italian-American actor David Henrie. And this isn't something like the Super Mario Bros. movie; just like Airbender, it's meant to be a straight adaptation. They aren't changing the character to be white, but are keeping his heritage. And this isn't a "different audience" with Airbender. Promotions for the movie are right there in the DVDs for the show, it was featured on the Kid's Choice Awards, they're aiming for the same "audience" by all accounts. And like I said before, it's not even that they're aiming for new fans. This isn't Thundercats or some other beloved, somewhat campy, long-dead franchise, where they have to make sweeping changes to appease the new market and hopefully keep it in balance with an older, now grown, nostalgic fanbase: Avatar ended all of two years ago. Mike and Bryan still make occasional con appearances, it still shows on TV every once in a while, they're still releasing merchandise. Sweeping changes *now* are a risky proposition, and given Shyamalan's somewhat disrespectful reasons, that risk is making itself known. Websites like UGO threw up responses all of two hours after his interviews. So what are we left with? White actors almost always get top billing, almost always get the meaningful and leading roles, they get to play characters that aren't their ethnicity, and will have characters rewritten to match their ethnicity, more often than the other way around. Even if it was brought to our attention by a live-action adaptation of a cartoon, why is this not a problem worth working on with this as the front? The protest has the backing of members of the show's creative staff, Asian American media watchdog groups, and others within Hollywood, including Roger Ebert and Perry Shen. It's become enough of an issue that it's showing up in the occasional major news outlet, there have been workshops at two universities and booths at comic conventions. The case has damn well been made by now.
>>76029 >The protest has the backing of members of the show's creative staff, Asian American media watchdog groups, and others within Hollywood, including Roger Ebert and Perry Shen. It's become enough of an issue that it's showing up in the occasional major news outlet, there have been workshops at two universities and booths at comic conventions. And this is where Ninja's argument that the protesters are nothing more than whiny fanboys who will never be satisfied shatters into millions of little pieces.
>>76029 So, Avatar rips a bunch of asian things off, and that qualifies it as asian? Yet when people call it 'anime' or whatever, you guys groan like babies getting refused candy. Sheesh, and I thought my Twilight fandom was bad.
>>76032 Haha, my god, that is *such* an obvious troll, I can't help but laugh. To answer the question, though, Mike and Bryan went to China when researching for the Fire Nation during season 3, and they had many cultural consultants; a pan-Asian fantasy world is gonna have real world Asian things in it. Calling it "anime" suggests it's from Japan, and thus everybody from MTV news to Jessie McCartney says it's from Japan originally. Smacks of a lack of research.
>>76033 I've read a lot of interviews with Mike and Bryan but I've seen nothing but second-hand accounts from fans saying they went to China. Can you tell me where you heard of them going to China? I ask because I have the suspicion that it's one of those "Beam me up Scottie," things or whatever as I know for sure that they went to Korea, possibly more than once, and people confuse those two places all the time.
>>76039 It's in one of the DVD collection extras discs. Book one, I think.
>>76039 They've gone to Korea when visiting the animation studios. They specifically said in the DVD commentary that for season 3 they went to China for the architecture (and Iceland for the geography), when before all they had were books, pictures and other second-hand research material. I can't remember what episode had that commentary, though.
>>76045 If you can't remember it, then it is null and void.
>>75962 Yayoi period (ca. 300 BCE - 300 CE)
>>76046 Oh for...will someone who has the time to comb through all 3 DVD sets please tell us which collection the interview in question is on?
>>75941 THIS... The second they announced Shyalaman as the director it was a big red flag to me. The casting just further validated my assertion that this movie will be fail.
>>76054 This movie is produced by those who helped with The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable. Two of his epic movies.
>>76055 So? It's still being written and directed by Shayalaman. Also i didn't think the Sixth Sense was any where near as good as people made it out to be. Unbreakable was decent at best. The rest of his movies are horrid.
>>76057 Couldn't agree more.
>>75915 I know probably nobody cares but describing Mai's appearance as being typical of the Yayoi and therefore Japanese is kind of a solecism. I can't remember the right word, I guess that'll do. Anyway there are no more Yayoi in Japan. Outside of Japan, due to political reasons, it's generally agreed that the Yayoi were simply immigrants of Korean origin and the Jomon, the natives, were what is now the Ainu. The two groups interbred and by the Kofun period all Yayoi were replaced by modern Japanese. The political reasons: during Japan's whole Evil stint they denigrated Korean culture and history in order to claim that the country needed to be occupied by a foreign government to get it up to code. To make the claim of superiority they needed in order to justify the annexation of other sovereign nations with long established histories and to rally their own people behind the idea of aggressively expanding territory they used their mythology. The myth of Japan's first emperor, Jimmu, is that he was descended from Ninigi, Amaterasu's grandson, and conquered all the people of the isles. And so the Japanese govt. used this as a message that they were the "divine race" and serve a higher purpose, their living god; that they should forcibly show the world of their peaceful ways and unite them under their boot. Anyway how this relates to the Yayoi is that in addition to all the archaeological evidence including the fact that metal tools were introduced by the Yayoi and according to chemical analyses all metal tools in Japan were of Korean origin until the 6th century, the location of the Yayoi culture being on the bank closest to Korea, the artifacts of Korea being identical but older and the physiological similarities Yayoi remains share with modern Koreans there is also the mythology. The three symbols of the Yayoi culture (as they originated with them in Japan) are the bronze mirror, the bronze sword, and the "royal seal stone." These are reflected in Japanese mythology as the three objects given to Ninigi by Amaterasu with which to pacify Japan, now used as the imperial regalia of Japan. These are also reflected in Korean mythology as the three objects given to Hwang-gung, a celestial being that was "demoted" to man, by the goddess Mago in the northern mountains of Korea with which to purify his people to once more reach a state of divinity. The third object is sometimes said to be different like a comb, trident or bell (another thing associated with Yayoi). The "royal seal stone" most likely refers to what the Japanese call magatama. Magatama, called kobeunok by Koreans, are simply carved, comma-shaped beads. Outside of Japan, again due to political reasons, they're generally agreed to have Korean origins (except for one crank named Charles Keally) due to the fact that the youngest Neolithic kobeunok found in Korea are at least 500 years older than the oldest magatama there is. Korean kobeunok were made to resemble bear claws, a symbol of rebirth and the transmigration of the soul, and so are mostly found in aristocratic tombs as they were descended from shamanic rulers. It's believed that agriculture was one of the things brought to Japan by the Yayoi. Due to political reasons it's often argued that rice cultivation originated in China around 7,000 years ago, a view mostly propagated by Japanese researchers. But radiometric dating places the rice fields of central S. Korea as the oldest in the world, somewhere between 14,000 and 15,000 years old. Japanese mythology spoke of many otherworlds. These otherworlds usually doubled for real world foreign countries. And many Japanese gods were what's called marebito, meaning "sacred visitors," from these otherworlds. Korean folklore has many tales of people departing by sea and arriving in lands to the east where they are greatly revered for whatever reason. Ninigi was one of these marebito and is strongly connected to rice cultivation in Japan. You know where this is heading? In Encounter or Syncretism: The Initial Growth of Japanese Buddhism, Professor of the Phenomenology of Religion and of Modern non-Christian Religions at the University of Amsterdam, J.H. Kamstra writes: The Korean sun-worship also links this country with North Asia and Japan. Japanese mythology contains enough indications of this Korean belief in heaven. Empress Jingo's ancestor, for instance was named "Heavenly Spear of The Sun," Ama no Hiboko. According to the Kojiki and Nihonshoki he came originally from Silla. In this, one can see the symbol for the Korean immigrants who had either brought this sun-worship to Japan or strengthened it there. Thus the oldest sun calendars or hijiri were supposed to have found their way to Japan. Hence one can ask oneself whether Amaterasu, as a sun goddess, might not also have been of Korean descent, as was Ama no Hiboko... Korean sun-worship had much in common with that of Japan. It was practised with more or less the same symbols. The most important sun symbols were the ship, the tree and the mountain. As far as the ship is concerned, the Kojiki represents the patriarch of the Funa-ki, 船木, (litt.: ship's timber)-muraji, the sun god (Hi no kami,日の神) as sailing to Japan by ship. As a reminder of this emperors were often buried with a ship among their grave goods. He goes on to say: In Japanese mythology there are various elements of which it is hard to define whether they are purely Japanese. Similar elements can also certainly be found in Shintō. Nevertheless there are also a few cults which probably relate to the contribution of the kikajin (Korean immigrants). Those are the Inari cult, still very popular and closely connected with rice production, and that of Matsuno-o, 松尾神社. These devotions were originally propagated only by the kikajin. This was also the case with the Hachiman cult, as prominent immigrant families occupied various important functions in his main temple of Usa, 宇佐八幡宮, on Kyūshū. Some of these Korean devotions, even today, enjoy extreme popularity in Japan. Thus, for example, the country is covered from the north to the south with small Inari, 稲荷神社, temples. - Now, it's notable that Inari is thought to be of Korean origin as they're the god of rice agriculture and Inari shrines are well known for their torii gates, whose origins are also contested. One origin, considered the most likely, is that they come from the Korean hongsalmun, literally "red arrow gates," which in addition to obvious physical similarities serve the same purpose as torii. It's also believed that the literal meaning of torii, bird perch, can most easily be explained by sotdae, pillars with carved birds at the tops made to protect villages in Korea and carry people's prayers to Heaven. More to the point the idea that Amaterasu was actually a living woman of Korean ethnicity is revolutionary. It's openly admitted that the emperor of Japan is of partial Korean descent, at least in legend, through some concubines but nothing like this. It completely turns around that bit of propaganda I mentioned earlier. Now instead of the Yamato being the "divine race" destined to conquer the world it would be the Koreans, who were regarded as sub-human, and the first nation under their boot was Japan. Kind of like Planet of The Apes. >they went to China for the architecture (and Iceland for the geography) Okay, that explains why despite fans claiming the architecture is Japanese-styled I always thought it looked far more like Tang China's. Specifically, the pagodas and towers - though they could also pass for Baekje Korean stone architecture. The apologists, I'm sure, would really like to use this as proof that the characters are not Asian but the Avatar world was still primarily based on the topography of East Asia. Furthermore, though Iceland has no native inhabitants it's climate is comparable to those of Hokkaido, Sakhalin, Kamchatka and Victoria Island which all have natives of the Mongoloid race. Even many of the descendants of Caucasoid immigrants have developed kind of Asian looks (e.g. Bjork). Though it's an entire planet there's no biomes outside the realm that people of the Mongoloid race have inhabited on Earth. Anyway, we don't even know how human life originated in the Avatar world and the lack of "Caucasian traits" (e.g. blond hair) is, imo, a better indicator of race than counting all the rather obvious racial traits they do possess.
>>76062
>>76062 I really want to know where you went to learn these things. Nice read, I was a little surprised when you brought up the three artifacts, I recognized them as the Imperial Regalia first and foremost. Interesting to know that it stemmed from elsewhere. In a bit of movie related news, there's gonna be a vidya game for this movie: http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/04/06/the-last-airbender-new-videogame-trailer/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ew/popwatch+%28Entertainment+Weekly%27s+PopWatch%29 Thoughts?
>>76065 >BECOME AANG >BECOME ZUKO I hope the water kids aren't reduced to total second bananas in this film. Because I got a fiery need to see that cool Katara/Zuko fight at the end.
>>76065 Well seeing as how 90% of movie based games suck ass, it will probably be even worse than the movie.
>>76074 There was. It was called Ember Island Players.
>>76062 Wow, that was a good history lesson. I remember reading they can now track any Japanese citizen DNA's to their Jomon or Yayoi ancestors, because there has been so little immigration to Japan that their DNA hasn't changed a lot.
>>76062 >Anon posts lengthy yet educational bit of history >>76064 >Ninja posts pic indicating he has the attention span of a fish and adds nothing to the discussion once again Keep on making meaningful contributions to this thread. >>76074 The characters of Avatar would set to rid their world of the evil "clones" and defeat their boss villain, Em Naito.
>>76065 The trailer makes it seem that "Zuko" is bending without an external source. They can't even follow their own changes to the universe.
>>76081 Well yeah, it would kinda be a crap videogame if your fire elemental character couldn't use their powers for most of the game.
Maybe it's because the film has been a train-wreck for coming on three years now, and they don't have anything good to say: http://sodapopjournal.com/features/the-last-word-on-the-last-airbender/ (Disclosure: I wrote this piece, but I figured I'd link it here since I haven't seen anybody else saying quite these same things.)
>>76081 WHAT!?!?! AN UNCONFIRMED RUMOR THAT IS SHOWN TO BE WRONG IN THE FIRST MOVIE TRAILER ISN'T HELD TO IN THE VIDYA?!?!?!! OH NOOOES
>>76086 Well, for one, we've only seen Iroh independently firebend. So either they're misleading us for some purpose or, indeed, most firebenders cannot independently create fire. Which looks like it might include Zuko, from what I've seen. I'll be really curious about Movie 2 (if it ever comes out) and Azula.
>>76086 What? Unconfirmed? M. Night said so himself in a recent interview that only the best Firebenders like Iroh can make their own fire, the rest need an external source. And before somebody says that Zuko was good, remember that he often got his ass kicked and Iroh repeatedly made him review his basics. Plus, if you look in the trailer during the Spirit Oasis fight, he spreads out a fire then does this jump and a flourish to send the Fire from the ground to Peltz. >>76085 I hadn't made the connection that Del Rey wasn't the publisher. I already figured they're just quiet because of NDAs, but kudos for reminding me that they've had multiple opportunities to promote.
>>76085 Why is this written as if Shyamalan is the one and only agent of interpretation in this production? Why do you say "he is writer, director, and producer" when he is a writer and a producer? He answers to other people just like every director before him. Why haven't you talked about how Shyamalan, more than anyone, stands to lose the most if this film is a failure given recent trends in his box office performance and critical reception and his own personal (family) reputation on the line? Why is your entire article based on such a weak idea as "Mike and Bryan haven't said anything, so that means they are completely cut out of the production process and are hiding?" A lot of anons in these threads have addressed the situation more eclectically than you did in this article. tl;dr - are you a journalist or a blogger?
I don't mean to start the racial shitstorm again but I saw the trailer when I went to How To Train Your Dragon and it felt so weird to me. I always imagined the Water Tribe as Inuit and I have a hard time imagining Movie Sokka and Katara cutting up raw seal liver and eating it. Don't feel right, man. Dem seal livers.
>Why haven't you talked about how Shyamalan, more than anyone, stands to lose the most if this film is a failure given recent trends in his box office performance and critical reception and his own personal (family) reputation on the line? Oh, so now you acknowledge his mediocre box office success and poor critical reception. Didn't you argue the exact opposite two threads back? With the chart comparing him to George Lucas and everything? Really, if i09.com can run an article telling people to calm down and stop boycotting, this guy can run an article telling people the opposite. >>76094 It's been in full swing since the casting was announced, you aren't kicking up anything, so I wouldn't worry about it.
>>76091 Ninja, you're adorable. But don't be obtuse. Shyamalan is sole writer for that project. Check IMDB, check goddamn anything. And don't come back to me with weak-ass shit about ghost writer or script doctors or anything like that. You can't substantiate anything like that, and there's no reason to think it's going on. The burden of proof lies with you, pal, and you don't know anything. You are out of your league. Also, you're conveniently ignoring the entire point of the piece, which is: Why haven't the two OTHER producers on the film, i.e. Mike & Bryan, who have EVERY REASON to be cheerleaders for the the film, to answer questions on io9 and host panels at Comic Con and generally be ambassadors to the fandom—why haven't they said a single thing? Nothing? ...Really? You don't need to be an insider to wonder why they haven't said a god-damned thing about the film based on their series. It just doesn't make any sense. Unless they hate it. Then it makes sense. But! You have made up your mind, Ninja. It's cool. And what the fuck, maybe you'll love it. But Mike & Brian won't.
>>76097 >And don't come back to me with weak-ass shit about ghost writer or script doctors or anything like that. You can't substantiate anything like that, and there's no reason to think it's going on. The burden of proof lies with you, pal, and you don't know anything. You are out of your league. So when you violate the oldest tenet of creative design, a writer never writes alone, your argument is rock-solid and untouchable, even though you have no evidence to support it. When I support that oldest tenet and expand the point to include a creative team and 4 (or 5 or 7, depending on your argument) producers (which you haven't addressed), I'm just talking out of my ass. Why don't you prove Mike and Bryan were kept out of the production? And don't come back to me with weak-ass shit about not doing interviews they're not required to do or not showing up to conventions after their show is already over or anything like that. You can't substantiate anything like that, and there's no reason to think it's going on. The burden of proof lies with you, pal, and you don't know anything. >>76096 I was addressing his entire career relative to his two most recent releases after a slurry of "he's always been a shit director." I openly acknowledge that his last two films (Lady in the Water, The Happening) were sinkers. I kept The Village as a plus because it broke even at the box office.
>>76097 >>76108 "NO U!" "NO U!!!1!" Shit's hilarious.
I, for one, am completely fine with Shyamalan and his team's decisions and directions they have taken with this adaptation. The changes in Avatar lore do not bother me, nor does the casting, the ethnicity altering or anything else. I am completely at peace with it. I will never see the movie, because it is clearly not for me, but to deny any person to find enjoyment in it is an utterly ridiculous and outright crass notion.
>>76111 But if you have absolutely no problem with it, why is it not for you?
>>76112 It's the same way with foreign-language films. They're completely not for me, but I don't hate or try to diminish the fact that they exist. The Last Airbender is pretty much a foreign film to me.
>>76112 Double post, I'm sorry, but I just understood what you asked right now. Doy. It's not for me because it is not a complete, to-the-letter interpretation from one medium to another of Avatar. But to me, creating that sort of movie would be an impossible task. So I'm fine with whatever they decide to chuck out because I have the option to not see it.
>>76111 If you don't give a damn about the movie one way or another as a personal preference, that's perfectly fine. However, many of us are outraged and disgusted over the changes, so we're going to boycott and protest. But if you don't care about the movie, then why do you care that other people do and think they're "ridiculous"? >>76113 >The Last Airbender is pretty much a foreign film to me. Wat? Supposedly one of the reasons why they changed the cast is because of the ill-informed notion that a movie filled with ethnic leads would look too "foreign", so they felt the need to whitewash the main stars and downplay a lot of the cultural background and writing to make it more appealing to a "mainstream" (i.e. white) audience.
>>76117 I don't think they're calling you ridiculous for boycotting, but they find the idea of the boycotters telling non-boycotters that they can't enjoy the movie ridiculous. Basically when you guys call us movie-goers terrible people and racists. I guess. >>Wat? Supposedly one of the reasons why they changed the cast is because of the ill-informed notion that a movie filled with ethnic leads would look too "foreign", so they felt the need to whitewash the main stars and downplay a lot of the cultural background and writing to make it more appealing to a "mainstream" (i.e. white) audience. Uh, no you missed the point. Anon basically says that, sure, there's really good foreign films out there that he's sure are great and all, but foreign films just aren't his thing. Maybe he doesn't dig subtitles, maybe he just thinks there isn't enough gore, whatever. You could replace 'foreign film' with 'horror film' and have a fitting analogy for my own tastes
>>76117 I didn't say that I didn't give a damn about it, I'm just at peace with what it is to me. I think some people are acting ridiculous because they're getting, in my opinion, too emotional about the changes that were implemented for this adaptation. I don't personally feel that it's an issue worth fighting over, especially when no real result can some from that fight. The movie has been made and it will either make money or not. Like when people were crying racist concerning the Autobot twins in Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. Most of those cries went unheeded and that movie was still fairly successful without any major change or apology to try please the offended. This might be the same situation with The Last Airbender, with the exception that, at it's core, it's a movie based on what can be considered by most people as a children's property, so it is most likely doomed to not make as much money as some other film, anyway.
>>76128 Some people claim racism in the casting, others claim creative incompetence on the part of everyone involved. Ninja just insists that everyone else is wrong and has zero evidence to support their claims, while doing nothing to support his counterpoints. Rage and circular logic ensue. >>76111 I think the concern comes from the fact that the franchise is being influenced by the movie in bad ways, and can very well be influenced by it in the future. It's success could mean more Avatar movie stuff and less Avatar show stuff. Nick and Paramount have mismanaged the property enough that it's not at all inconceivable to think that they'd, for example, do spinoff cartoons using movie designs and ideas. It's already happened with the toys, for example. The first Katara action figure the fandom gets, and it's the Nicola Peltz model. But when they asked why there wasn't a Katara (or Toph, or Azula, or..pretty much half the principle cast given how many action girls there were) toy based on the cartoon for months prior, they were met with the response "That's stupid! Boys don't play with girl dolls!" There are people that want more Avatar stuff, but they don't want more Last Airbender stuff. But on the other hand, failure of the movie reflects bad on the franchise as a whole. They could very well say "Well, no one went to see The Last Airbender, so there's no interest in those three DTV movies we were going to do." People want it to be good, and they want it to be like the show. And honestly I don't think it's fair that they're unrealistic in wanting a decent adaptation. It's NOT impossible to do if you've got someone that's actually a fan of the intellectual property, or at least one that respects it enough not to claim fandom when they just want a vehicle to salvage their floundering popularity.
>>76085 We're ignoring the possibility of Mike & Bryan being goddamned good trolls, and they've trolled the fandom once again. They're getting more money for ignoring the show they created than the money they got for creating it in first place. Sounds like a profitable attitude to me.
>>76129 I recall reading somewhere that Mike and Bryan were greenlit another Nick show...anyone have that link? I think it was in this or the last thread.
>>76134 I've checked and it seems the new project series to be wishful thinking from fans, mostly. Bryan Konietzko on IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1665983/ Credited as involved in the movie. Michael Dante DiMartino on IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0227204/ Not involved in the movie. Honestly, I'm starting to think these guys may care about Avatar as much as they care about Family Guy or Mission Hill.
>>76134 >>76136 See this post here: >>75244 No word on whether or not it's another Avatar-verse series or a new IP. Also, considering the way they talk about the series, I highly doubt they're that apathetic. They're not involved with the movie (one even specified that they weren't involved with the casting.) Still, there was never a specific requirement that they had to be involved in the movie, they've been pretty much cut out of it from whatever they did at it's start.
>>76138 But that makes me wonder if they won't just go all Butch Hartman on this new project and make it a kids live action based show.
>>76147 I hope not...
>>76155 That is the most horribly ugly picture I have ever seen.
>>76155 Gee, thanks, Frank Marshal. On year ago you bury your head in the sand and say "We didn't discriminate, I'm done talking about it." Now, a year later and way after early letters from protesting fans get returned to sender after being told the incorrect mailing address, the MANAA, and the EWP, you blame somebody else and acknowledge the problem with the wording of the casting calls, as if that's somehow making the problem go away. The artist said he based those tattoos on Tibetan tattoos, I kinda wanna see an example.
>>76155 "Ultimately, we all take responsibility for not doing a more thorough job monitoring these frequently used third-party agents and Paramount has since been in regular dialogue with Asian American advocacy groups including the Japanese American Citizens League and the Media Action Network for Asian Americans to ensure that such a mistake does not happen in the future."
>>76189 Be that as it may, he can still go to hell. He had the opportunity to fix this mistake early on and he blew us off. The only reason he's saying this stuff now is because he's finally starting to realize the boycott might really make this movie tank after all. >>76155 Is anyone else bothered by some of the other things on that casting call sheet? Look at the ages they listed, no wonder we have young Peltztara alongside Old Man Rathbone. They misspelled "Yue" (not a huge deal, but shows they weren't paying attention), and they make Zuko out to be more of a ladies' man than Sokka is. He didn't really have any fangirls (in the show) until Season 3. Before that there was only Jin and maybe Song, but that's about it. Maybe the "handsome bad boy" image they wanted is why they made his scar almost non-existent? And what was the point of calling Zhao "Godless" when there are no "gods" to speak of? Are they trying to paint the villains as godless heathens to fit in with M. Night's new tweeest on the spirituality?
>>76196 Honestly I'm starting to think they'd already cast Peltz and Rathbone before even writing the casting sheet, and then just modified it to describe them.
>>76197 Peltz was the first one cast, IIRC. Because her rich producer daddy said she had to be in it.
>>76196 Or someone relied too much on their spellchecker. It corrects "Yue" as "UAE," which is the abbreviation for the United Arab Emirates.
>>76202 ...I don't know why that's such a funny notion to me, but god does it make sense.
>>76210 Why should he show respect to someone who hasn't shown any to the fandom? There also should have been a period after "jackass".
>>76213 I'm not >>76210, but the quotation marks goes outside of the period.
>>76214 FUCK ME. GRAMMAR FAIL.
>>76213 He doesn't have to answer to, or respect the fandom. No one in his position ever does. However, he fucked up royally by blowing off MANAA and the EWP. They actually have some legitimacy, especially since Mako founded the latter and Iroh was one of his last roles.
>>76214 I'm not that person either (I guess the post was deleted?), but I've always hated that rule, it just looks wrong to me, so I choose to ignore it. /off topic
>>76155 Anyone who read this just got trolled.
>>76218 >interest groups >legitimacy inb4 "but the founding members are people we like!" as if interest groups have anything to do with their founding visions.
>>76233 Talking shit about Mako (or Iroh) = you are a fucking asshole. Ban.
>>76233 Okay, Ninja. I'll play along. In what way does the EWP NOT have anything to do with their founding vision? How do interest groups, who have lawyers that send letters to these production companies, have LESS legitimacy than us, a bunch of people complaining on the internet?
>>76255 That kinda depends. It's pronounced "ee-roh" instead of "ai-roh" in the movie, but to be honest, the cartoon kinda fudged the romanization of a few names here and there (Mai being pronounced "Mei" or "May" for one) and Sokka being "Soak-uh" is very specifically a wrong pronunciation in the show, and doesn't have a frame of reference as far as I know (They claimed the change for Iroh is to make it sound more Persian or some shit.) Aang's name being changed to sound more like Ang Lee's, which sorta makes sense, but it's still not the character's name.
>>76065 >I really want to know where you went to learn these things. Nice read, I was a little surprised when you brought up the three artifacts, I recognized them as the Imperial Regalia first and foremost. Interesting to know that it stemmed from elsewhere. Thanks, all who commented, for taking interest and actually reading what I had to say. I know it's a lot for a post on a message board devoted to the discussion of a cartoon show. I just hope it wasn't too boring. And sorry for the late response, I haven't been in the best of health. I'm an amateur writer and historian and I've always been kind of a homebody so I just spend a lot of my free time researching subjects that interest me, one being comparative mythology. A fun aspect of that is Ancient Astronaut theory: Korean mythology's pretty compatible with it's many tales of superhuman kings emerging from giant, shining eggs that fell from the sky. Anyway, I mostly use the internet; blogs, news outlets, online encyclopedias, online libraries, recorded seminars, university or museum websites and forums frequented by other researchers but I also read a lot of actual paper books, watch documentaries, and sometimes just talk to people that know about the subjects at hand. Google books is quite convenient but it can't replace real books. I keep notes of whatever I think sounds important or interesting then I cross-reference them to verify the sources' claims. I'd been researching Korean mythology, history and culture for some period pieces of fiction I've been working on and when researching Asian history it's impossible to escape the political. From an archaeological viewpoint dissecting the myth of Ninigi the three artifacts do indeed stem from elsewhere, generally presumed to be Korea, as was said earlier. However, there is no solid proof the myth itself was based on the one from Korea. Due to the stigma placed on shamanism in Korea after the arrival of new religions through China most (non-patriarchal) indigenous Korean myths were preserved only in song until the 20th century. That particular one was first recorded in a book that's said to have been written in the 5th century and passed down through the writer's family until a rewritten version was published in 1953 by his descendant. It's interesting and seems legit but it can't be trusted as a source. Still, the Budoji is just the earliest known written document to tell the story; it was long widespread in oral tradition which could explain why accounts differ on what the third object was. From an archaeological viewpoint dissecting the myth of Hwang-gung it corresponds with interpretations linking it to the much more popular Dangun myth of a Heaven-worshiping tribe from Siberia absorbing less-developed tiger and bear totem tribes in Manchuria. Artifacts found in the region, such as those of the Liaoning/Korean bronze dagger culture, reflect these interpretations of the myth. The Liaoning/Korean bronze dagger culture left many kinds of artifacts but the dagger is their most distinctive. The design of the Kusanagi can be traced back to these bronze daggers (the Kusanagi of today is a replica made in the 19th century; the character used for it in the Kojiki, 剣, doesn't distinguish between sword and dagger) and one can see how they changed in shape as the people migrated further south. >>76087 >Well, for one, we've only seen Iroh independently firebend. So either they're misleading us for some purpose or, indeed, most firebenders cannot independently create fire. Which looks like it might include Zuko, from what I've seen. I was thinking for a while that the ability to independently firebend may be a genetic trait and the basis for the royal family's power. But Shyamalan said only masters could so I don't know. This could count as fanboy nitpicking, unlike the far more serious racebending issue, but I think either way this is a huge mistake. I'm sure it occurred to Bryke that everyone but firebenders need an external source; giving them that same weakness makes it virtually impossible for the Fire Nation to have the military superiority needed to accomplish what they did in the show as every other element is found in great abundance in nature. And if you think about it thermal energy, what firebenders actually manipulate, is too >>76255 Funny that you bring it up because I had just read this - http://www.ugo.com/movies/changes-to-the-last-airbender - article and was planning on commenting on it here whenever I got the chance. I was originally amused by what I'd thought was Rathbone mispronouncing his own character's name so late after filming but apparently he was pronouncing Soak-uh "correctly" as it is in the film. This, I think, is the most overt display of Shyamalan's arrogance when pertaining to Airbender. He claims to be correcting the pronunciations of the characters' names, many of which are made up, from the original show. Not only did the show have an expert in Chinese calligraphy and a cultural adviser, it also had many Asians and Asian-Americans on the payroll who, I'm sure, knew at least how a few personal names should be pronounced. Though I'm quite certain it's merely thoughtlessness, the change of names also serves to distance Airbender from it's original East Asian influences. For example: Iroh is not Persian. Nor was his character influenced by the culture of Persia, ancient or otherwise, in any way. The written, and in many cases spoken, language of the Avatar world is Chinese. Because Hanzi isn't a phonetic alphabet and the characters' names aren't supposed to be written using the Latin alphabet they can be transliterated any which way. But they can only be pronounced one way. Many fans had a problem with the pronunciation of Mai's name, assuming it to be of Japanese origin. The name Mai 梅, as it's pronounced in the show, exists in all East Asian cultures. The romanization of the Japanese name Mai 舞, as many fans assumed it must have been, is derived from Portuguese, a Romance language. Many Romance languages have only one consistent pronunciation for vowels wherever they appear, if you'll remember from your schoolday Spanish lessons. But the majority of names in Avatar are written as they'd be pronounced in English, using English spellings. And in English "ai" is generally pronounced no different than "ay" or "ae." The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain. Before Japanese pop culture became mainstream I remember even romanized Japanese words would always be mispronounced like Raiden and saiyan. I do admit it looks a bit awkward with the "ai" at the end but it's not without precedent: Hyundai, Kublai, Sartai, Jalairtai, Altai, Chagatai, Haitai, Chai, Rai, Krai, Nogai, Asmodai, Kurultai, Dalai - it should be noted that most of those words/names have Asiatic origins as well. I think the middle name of Song's voice actress, Kim Mai Guest, is pronounced the same way as Mai's name on the show too. Some have suggested Mai should be spelled with an "ei" but, like "ai," it could also be pronounced "eye" as in Heinlein or "ee" as in ceiling. I suppose since the characters' names are generally pronounced in an Americanized form it's "incorrect" but they're their names. If the misspelling of Yue was intentional it only serves to make the pronunciation more inaccurate as Yue 月, moon, does begin with a /j/. Though I'm clearly against the movies I guess I can look forward to seeing Toaph. It seems the strongest evidence of Shyamalan being a fan is the common assumption of knowing better than both the characters within the story and their real life creators of how their names should be pronounced.
>>74238 >psyche!
>>76259 I bow to your knowledge, sir.
>>76259 I'm not sure how different means bad. If it's more accurate to the cultural influence, isn't that a good thing?
>>76259 I, for one, enjoy your posts, but you may want to make smaller paragraphs. The pronunciation/spelling of the Avatar character's names always did confuse me. I knew they said Kyoshi wrong, since it's two syllables and not three, but it's kind of like Tokyo, most Americans get that one wrong too. Others I wasn't so sure of. I think it would help if we knew for sure the origins of all the "real" names; the made-up ones can be pronounced however they want them to be. I remember some people saying Sifu sounded too much like "seafood" when it should have been said differently, but I don't know Chinese, so I can't comment there. But any way you look at this, it's pretty arrogant of M. Night to say he's changing the pronunciations (maybe with the exception of "Avatar" since it's a Hindu word) for "accuracy" when they completely failed on the accuracy of the race. Take note, Ninja.
>>76269 Say what you will about Super Mario Brothers: The Movie, but at least they got the names right.
>>76271 Mario Mario and Luigi Mario? Didn't everyone hate that?
>>76269 >I remember some people saying Sifu sounded too much like "seafood" when it should have been said differently, but I don't know Chinese, so I can't comment there. As someone studying Mandarin, sifu (or, as it is in Mandarin, shifu) should sound more like "shirfu" or "shrfu." The sounds represented in pinyin as "shi," "chi," "zhi," and "ri" all have this unusual "i" sound that sounds sort of like an "er." And if it was "si" and not "shi", it would have a vowel that sounded like that in "book."
>>76272 Not really. It makes sense given how they're called "The Mario Brothers". That implies that Mario is a surname. And I was thinking more along the lines of how they actually pronounced Mario and Luigi (and Koopa, Daisy, Yoshi, Toad, etc) as they're supposed to be instead of changing things just for the hell of it.
Sorry if I'm slowpokeing this!
>>76300 Fuck me, that Blue Spirit looks fantastic.
>>76300 I wonder what the logic was behind the shaggy hair on the mask. Blue Spirit worked fine as a sort of ninja, didn't he?
>>76303 Probably wanted to give him the wild-haired Oni look, since this is based off an anime anyway.
>>76303 Well, now he looks more like an ancient masked warrior or a "spirit" I think. It's probably the only change I'm really happy with. And I never really liked the Blue Spirit that much
>>76305 > since this is based off an anime anyway. Come on man, at least put some effort into it.
>>76300 >>76301 >>76306 >>76307 Fandom, I am disappoint.
The Blue Spirit mask seems to have been given the big shaggy hair you might see on an Indian holy man and made to look more like an Japanese Oni mask (which is technically culturally inaccurate, I suppose, since the Blue Spirit mask was modeled after a Chinese Opera wizard's mask.) That reminds me...Ang Lee's name is pronounced with a short "A"...but his name is written with two characters, one pinyin/character for each syllable, right? From the few times I've seen the characters, Aang's name also seems to be written with two characters, but he doesn't have any second portion to his name. Is it possible that Aang's name has a different pronunciation (thus rendering M. Night as talking out of his ass) since it's spelled differently? Can the same be said about Iroh? The pronunciation thing came about with Toub asking why it was pronounced like that, but is there anywhere on the net that tells us how Iroh's, or anybody else's name was written and with which characters, since the Romanization isn't totally trustworthy? Also, the tats are reminiscent of those South Asian tattoos Mari found, but do they follow the same design conventions? I've seen a number of people point out the cross motif of the tattoo. Various Mongol tribes liked the cross since it represents the four cardinal directions and the seasons and more, but given the relevance of the cross to Christianity in modern times (and the lack of possibility that Mongolian significance is what they were going for) is the gesture as futile trying to assert that the Swastika is *just* a Tibetan good luck charm?
>>76316 No, it was mostly modeled off China, Tang Dynasty if I'm not mistaken, and even if it wasn't, the mask was made in the Earth Kingdom, which was also various parts of China, and in some cases, Korea and Vietnam. Ba Sing Se in general was Qing Dynasty I think. If you want something modeled off Japan, look no further than Kyoshi Island. The warriors fight with Tessen-jutsu, head of the village was named "Old Man" in Japanese, he describe's Kyoshi's garb as a "kimono" Kyoshi's name basically means something along the lines of "Capital Samurai," it's spelled in Kanji, and at one point you see Oyajii eating friggin' Sushi. It's far more Japan than the Fire Nation, unless you wanna argue that Zuko's twin dao are somehow Japanese.
>>76318 >If you want something modeled off Japan, look no further than Kyoshi Island. The warriors fight with Tessen-jutsu, head of the village was named "Old Man" in Japanese, he describe's Kyoshi's garb as a "kimono" Kyoshi's name basically means something along the lines of "Capital Samurai," it's spelled in Kanji, and at one point you see Oyajii eating friggin' Sushi. It's far more Japan than the Fire Nation, unless you wanna argue that Zuko's twin dao are somehow Japanese. Zuko's dao are Chinese. They're formal name is the Niuweidao (The Oxtail Saber). http://www.learn-chinese-martial-arts.com/martial-arts-swords.html <-- A picture of the Niuweidao are posted toward the middle of the page, accompanied by relevant information. The Piandao is further down the page. Also, there is some information about the Chinese Jian at the bottom...
>>76318 I think the biggest reason people think the Fire Nation = Japan is because they're a tiny volcanic island nation out to take over the world. There is some Japanese influence in the Fire Nation, and other nations, but ultimately I think you're right about it being mostly based on Chinese culture. I tend to view it as a mix of both.
>>76316 >But weren't the Fire Nation suppository based on Japan? >suppository LOL, I just noticed this. Sorry if English isn't your first language.
>>76316 >>suppository based on Japan
WHY MUST THIS MOVIE START TAINTING THINGS RELATED TO THE SERIES?!
>>76324 Only he understands the show as it was meant to be.
>>76327 considering he is today's most renown visionary, after all.
>>76329 according to himself, and maybe his mom too.
>>76324 I wanted that book so bad. Now I don't want it anymore.
>>76111 >>76129 >I think the concern comes from the fact that the franchise is being influenced by the movie in bad ways, and can very well be influenced by it in the future. >>76324 Called It!
>>76324 IT'S A FUCKING FOREWORD. NOT CHANGES IN CANON. GOD.
It's just a one-page foreword. It's some sort on nonsense about Avatar being a presence in M. night's house and that he feels like the Gaang actually protect it or some shit. And that it's on his coffee table for all to read, but don't bring coffee near it, because you might get attacked. Whether it's the Gaang or if it's he and his family that will do the attacking, he does not specify. I'm not joking, he really says something along the lines of Aang, Katara, and Sokka protecting his house. Now I'm imagining the movie cast being cooped up in his house: "We appreciate you at least feeding us, but we want to go home." "No." "But-" "No." he would say, slowly shaking his head, his smile never fading.
>>76343 The man is crazy and deluded. I wanted the book, now I don't.
>>76343 So would it be acceptable to buy the book and rip out the one page with the forward on it?
>>76354 I'm sorry for the pre-order customers of the book. If that was my case, I'd rip out the Shyamalan forewords. Now I'll just download it and delete the foreword page file. From this point on, the ATLA franchise can only go worse.
If ripping it up's the way you're gonna go, you might be better off making a sticker or something to cover it, the very next page is the two or so page foreword by Mike and Bryan. And, thankfully, the rest of the book is free of the movie.
>>76355 Good, the series died a long time ago. The movie isn't going to cause a resurgence in fans, anyway.
>>76343 >he really says something along the lines of Aang, Katara, and Sokka protecting his house Oh yeah, I'm ttly down with the Avatar cast, yo! They are mah homies. So it's cool, peeps, come watch the movie! The Gaang will back me up on this! /mock I think if the characters were actually to visit his house, they'd kick his ass for how he's portraying them. >>76332 >>76352 I may hate the fact that M. Night's tainted a page of the book with his ramblings and delusions, but you seriously won't buy it now because of that? That's a bit extreme. I'm still definitely getting a copy. Someone mentioned putting a blank piece of paper over Shammy's Failword and maybe getting M&B to draw something on it at a con. That would be cool. >>76356 >the very next page is the two or so page foreword by Mike and Bryan And the page itself has a nice picture of the Blue Spirit with *actual Chinese calligraphy, not the insulting made-up "gibberish" the movie is using. So ripping it out is a bad idea, covering it is a better solution. *Someone correct me if I'm wrong. >>76359 >the series died a long time ago You came to this conclusion how? Many communities, such as this one, are still active. Just because the series is over doesn't mean it or the fandom is dead.
>>76361 I don't see what's so bad about his foreword.
Okay I think it's time for some FABULOOOUUUUS
I'm still buying the book. You guys are being fucking stupid for letting a single foreword page by Shamalamadingdong ruin it for you.
>>76365 >>I don't see what's so bad about his foreword. It's the his referring to Shyamalan's part of it.
>>76369 >>I'm still buying the book. You guys are being fucking stupid for letting a single foreword page by Shamalamadingdong ruin it for you. I refuse to support the idea that Shyamalan's involvement has been any positive for the franchise, therefore I won't pay for a book with a foreword where Shyamalan is given another chance to excuse himself. If you think it is fucking stupid, ok, I'm fucking stupid. If you think paying to read Shyamalan's excuses is fine because it comes in a book with nice pictures, then enjoy the book. You may enjoy paying to watch his movie, too.
the point of the fucking art book is to fucking look at the art and appreciate it. not care about some damn foreword by some asshole.
Cabbage Merchant Azula Toph Cameo Place your bets!
>>76382 Why don't you have a seat?
>>76262 >>76269 Thank you. I'll try to keep them shorter. >>76265 >I'm not sure how different means bad. If it's more accurate to the cultural influence, isn't that a good thing? Different doesn't always mean bad but it can very frequently mean worse. It probably would be a good thing if it was more accurate to the cultural influence but it's, quite plainly, not. Because it's a fantasy setting the "cultural influence" is the show. The written language of the Avatar world may be identical to Hanzi but it's not Hanzi, it's Avatar language. The characters' names are all based on the pronunciations, retroactively or no, of the Hanzi used to write their names in various Sinospheric languages and because they did away with the Hanzi there is no more basis to determine what is an accurate pronunciation and what is not. The best reference for the proper pronunciations of their names is the speech of the show's characters themselves. Speech came before script and Shyamalan's trying to reconfigure the spoken intonation of names based on the non-academic, unorthodox English morpho-phonemic transcription of non-phonetic, logosyllabic Chinese ideograms in the mode of Persian and Nagari transliteration; two defective orthographies for languages completely unrelated to any dialect of Chinese with multiple forms of equally acceptable romanization. To claim it's more authentic is insane. Ee-roh may be more accurate to a Persian accented reading of Iroh but it's not his name. And, as was said earlier, Shyamalan didn't care to remain loyal to cultural influences when it came to ethnicity; one cannot obey two masters. >>76315 >That reminds me...Ang Lee's name is pronounced with a short "A"...but his name is written with two characters, one pinyin/character for each syllable, right? From the few times I've seen the characters, Aang's name also seems to be written with two characters, but he doesn't have any second portion to his name. Is it possible that Aang's name has a different pronunciation (thus rendering M. Night as talking out of his ass) since it's spelled differently? Can the same be said about Iroh? The pronunciation thing came about with Toub asking why it was pronounced like that, but is there anywhere on the net that tells us how Iroh's, or anybody else's name was written and with which characters, since the Romanization isn't totally trustworthy? I was just looking at the screenshots of Tales of Ba Sing Se at AvatarSpirit and both characters for Aang's name read /aŋ/. Or rather, something like /aŋ/. The first one, 安, meaning peaceful, is actually the very same one used by Ang Lee. I think they're probably both there to give alternatives to each other; while one has a more fitting meaning the other sounds closer to Aang when spoken. Iroh, written 艾洛, is in fact pronounced, in proper pinyin, "Aì-Lùo." The character 艾, being the object of scrutiny, can actually be heard here - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Zh-%C3%A0i.ogg - spoken by a native of Beijing. You know the whole thing with l's and r's in Asian languages so it deserves no mention. Sokka, written 索卡 in the episode is pronounced "Sǔo-Kǎ" in Mandarin, so that's sort of one for Shyamalan I guess. However in Cantonese, an older and so in a sense "truer" dialect of Chinese, it's pronounced "Saak-Ka." I think the Chinese spelling of names in Avatar depend a lot on meaning: Zuko written in Hanzi, 蘇科, is pronounced "Sū-Kē" and can mean something like "to revive the family." A closer pronunciation would be spelled 租髙, but it means something like "high tax." The difference between 科 and 髙 can be head here - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a4/Zh-k%C4%93.ogg - and here - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Zh-g%C4%81o.ogg. The confusion, I suppose, is due to the fact that spelling differences in English are usually made for etymological reasons, meaning words pronounced the same way are spelled differently depending on their origin. This confusion is furthered by the English language's insufficiency to represent sounds like diphthongs and tonal differences in spoken Chinese as well as accents and more complications in other languages too. But spelling differences are also made for morpho-phonemic reasons, meaning words may be spelled the same but pronounced differently based on their environment. Personally, I think the staff just spelled the words however the hell they felt like. >>76321 Definitely. The Earth Kingdom and Fire Nation each seem to have about an equal amount of influence from the same countries, I think the main difference is that the Fire Nation is much more thoroughly blended. Also, the Fire Nation has some influence from Southeast Asia which I can't remember seeing in the Earth Kingdom, except maybe some of their costumes. It's pretty much just the Fire Nation's actions and worldview that echo Japan's. Culturally the Earth Kingdom resembles Japan much more closely. Kyoshi's already been noted (Kyoshi islanders tended to be much fairer than all other people in the Avatar world, I believe this may have been a play on Japanese portrayal of themselves when compared to their portrayal of other Asians who tend to look decidedly more "Oriental" in manga) but there's also the Council of Five, possibly modeled on Hideyoshi's councils. The earthbending troop uniforms in many ways resemble what was typically worn by pre-modern Japanese soldiers: cone hat, no shoes. The swamp dwellers' hats were quite reminiscent of the Awa-Odori kasa and their loincloths of fundoshi. I also noticed a lot of Earth Kingdom home interiors are furnished with short tables, a Korean and Japanese thing. The Chinese use normal tables and chairs and wear their shoes indoors. Koreans have a form of underfloor heating that was mentioned earlier in this thread which compelled them to remove their shoes and sit and sleep on the floor and the Japanese assimilated that (but not the heating system). Korea is actually far more influential on the Avatar world than people seem to have been able to tell. Song's hanbok and home were very easily identified by fans but they're based on those of just one period of a single dynasty. Many other articles of clothing looked to be based on hanbok of different eras; for example, Zuko's good guy outfit can be seen in Goguryeo tomb murals worn by hunters. Toph's jammies looked a lot like the old style hanbok and Mai's jacket could have been based on jeonbok. The wedding hairstyle of Ta Min, Roku's wife, is identical to those worn by many ladies of the Joseon court, most notably the last empress, Minbi aka Myeongseong. Much of the jewelry from the Fire Nation closely resembles that of the Three Kingdoms of Korea; the Fire Lord's crown especially looks like a simplified Baekje diadem. Though many fans have claimed the Fire Nation's armor is based on Tang China's I believe it far more closely resembles that of Korea's Gaya confederacy. Koreans are also well known for wearing pointy shoes. Iroh calls rice congee by its Korean name, "jook." Every dragon appearing on the show had four toes; Chinese dragons have five, Japanese dragons have three. The Dragon Bone Catacombs can be compared to the Complex of Goguryeo Tombs (pretty much the only rl Asian equivalent other than The Temple of Doom) and the Fire Nation capital to the mythical city of Asadal, built within the crater atop Mt. Baekdu. In the tomb of a Baekje king they found a sculpture called the seoksu which is apparently supposed to be a winged pig. A lot of music played during Fire Nation scenes sound a lot like binari, a form of shaman ritual music, just without the singing. One game Toph's playing in "The Runaway" is clearly based on yunnori, the only game I know of to use sticks as dice. From what I've seen a lot of Korean games ended with the loser getting struck with something like the game Aang and Sokka were playing in CoWaS; both the Korean and Avatar equivalents to Rock, Paper, Scissors end this way. In the same episode, Toph drops two names at the party entrance: the Pongs and the Yum Soon Hans (of the Yum Soon sept or, in Korean terms, bongwan; like the Boston Crowninshields). Both pong and han are words used to designate the Korean people, pong for individuals and han for the group. I could list more but you get the idea.
>>76387 Azula maybe? Someone in the screening session said she appeared at the end of the movie.
>>76391 So... You're saying it's a fantasy setting, so the languages don't correspond to real-life languages, even though they're nearly identical... ...But the ethnicity of the characters in the fantasy setting do correspond to real-life ethnicities...and...doesn't that mean you're obeying two masters?
>>76393 He's not saying that, please read again.
>>76374 Like I'd actually pay for the movie. And it's just one page touched by Shamamopoly. I don't see why that should ruin a book that's otherwise all show-based. With the exceptions of those fuckers Dean Devlin and Roland Emmerich, I don't really despise Hollywood moviemakers to the levels some people take it. I just get annoyed by others, but I can go on and on about how much the American Godzilla sucked. As horribly fucked up in casting and story compression Last Airbender is, at least it slightly resembles the source material more then Bob the Retarded Wonder Iguana ever did.
>>76395 >As horribly fucked up in casting and story compression Last Airbender is, at least it slightly resembles the source material more then Bob the Retarded Wonder Iguana ever did. You so can't prove that just yet. And Godzilla at least kept his name right and had Jean Reno.
>>76395 >>I just get annoyed by others, but I can go on and on about how much the American Godzilla sucked. Like the original Japanese "kaiju" movies were/are any "good" to start with. All the American Godzilla hate comes from Japanophiles overrating bulky rubber dinosaur suits.
>>76396 >>76397 Yeah, had the name and roar, but nothing else. American Godzilla's a pussy iguana that runs away from the military and gets killed really easily because AMERICA FUCK YEAH. Only good thing to come out of that movie was the TV show. The real Godzilla is an invincible juggernaut that's a living metaphor for the bomb that can only be killed by an overload of it's own radioactive power or by something even worse then nuclear energy. And practical effects just look better then CG a lot of the time because something's actually in front of the camera. That's why Jurassic Park still has better effects then most movies today because they knew when to use robots and when to use CGI.
>>76374 I'm completely against the movie, but you're still dumb for doing this. Just cover the stupid foreword like I'm going to. This is a BEAUTIFUL book filled with art from the SERIES, not the movie. It'll also help support the series, not the movie, which is something we should all strive to be doing. >>76391 Wow, you really know your stuff. Interesting about the dragons too, that's news to me. Do you think some of the Korean influence comes from the fact that the animators are Korean? I remember the volleyball game from The Beach was based on a Korean style, but that just turned out to be a happy coincidence, if I'm remembering the DVD commentary right. You should consider making a blog about the cultural influences in Avatar. I'd definitely read it. >>76398 >And practical effects just look better then CG a lot of the time because something's actually in front of the camera. Agree with this, but I'll have to take your word for it on the Godzilla stuff as I'm not a fan.
>>76391 Okay, no way in hell I'm quoting that much, but were those instances of the characters names being printed somewhere in their own language/region? If it's just fire nation wanted posters and such, then there could be mispelling just on the basis that they're foreign names.
>>76402 Some are, some aren't. The names of Zuko and Iroh were on wanted posters from the Fire Nation, but as they are Fire Nation and the poster was presented by Azula, we can take them as accurate.
>>76401 >You should consider making a blog about the cultural influences in Avatar. I'd definitely read it. This! I'd definitely read more about the influences in this sort of detail -- the Internet often seems disappointingly scarce with such things.
>>76401 Well, the 90s Japanese Godzilla movies and onward were a big leap from the 60s and 70s stuff. Moreso the Millennium stuff when they started mixing more CG in with the suits and models.
So, Sokka and Katara are white ... This blows, but it also means that I can dream about RDJ being cast as Hakoda in a theoretical sequel. Because that would rock.
>>76407 imokwiththis.jpg
Another Early Review for The Last Airbender http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GambitsCorner/news/?a=17082 >Confirmation that Koh is in the film just not the early screening.
>>76410 >Serious Iroh >Serious Aang Fuck.
>>76410 >confirmed for boomerang >confirmed for MAKE THE MOON BLEED >confirmed for serious mode FUCK YEAR >no (recall of) yip yip >no Zuko Zhao fight wat
>>76398 >>And practical effects just look better then CG a lot of the time because something's actually in front of the camera. Really? A man in a rubber suit kicking cardboard boxes with painted windows? Come on. OK, CGI in the late 90s wasn't as good as CGI today, I give you that. But you can't compare those B-series kaiju films and their campy metaphors with Jurassic Park and say they're the same quality category as films.
>> >confirmed for serious mode >FUCK YEAR ......Damn it Ninja.
>>76417 What? We already had goofy kids perceiving genocide and world war as fun and games.
>>76415 >I let stereotypes define a whole movie series.
>>76422 And Ninja misses the point once again. In other news, dogs bark, cats meow, and water is wet.
I like how I pretty much called exactly how they were going to mess up Iroh. It feels vindicating.
>>76425 He doesn't crack jokes about food or tea, so he's messed up? Is that the Iroh you got to know? I do not think we watched the same Iroh. >>76424 Again, there'd be a point to miss if you had one.
>>76425 He's not a jolly old man that obfuscates stupidity to hide his cunning intellect. Serious mode all the time means a significant shift in the character's tone. But you're going to disagree with that just for the sake of arguing now, aren't you?
>>76429 I find advertisements using Buddhist monks entirely taste- and tactless. Those folks devote their existence to separating from consumption, and advertisers use that to express some kind of undying need to do the opposite. That's like oven mit ads using Nazis. I really do think it's that completely offensive.
>>76430 But you apparently don't feel the same way about whitewashing Buddhist monks. Interesting.
Some news: In (possible) reference to Mike and Bryan starting a new series for Nickelodeon, Nick has started hiring on staff for a new Avatar: The Last Airbender *animated* production. http://cartoonsnap.blogspot.com/2010/04/more-animation-jobs-avatar-last.html Here's hoping Mike and Bryan are involved, that they bring the same level of care and passion to this thing if they are, and for fuck's sake that they keep the movie separate from this thing altogether.
But Ninja, they're not Buddhist Monks. They're airbenders! They exist in a fantasy world where Buddha does not!
>>76423 There was a blackface character in... was it Monsters from Prehistoric Planet...? >>76437 Thye're the Pepsifu monks!
>>76391 That was brilliant. I had a little knowledge-gasm reading that.
>>76437 >>76433 >criticize a Pepsi commercial for exploiting cultural stereotypes for profit, unrelated subdiscussion to movie cast in response to an anon >anons think I'm talking about movie cast >I'm the one missing the point
>>76440 You have to admit it makes you look like a hypocrite.
>>76442 Not really. Ninja is claiming to be offended by the misappropriation of a real culture, whereas he defends the movie on the basis that it's a changing of fictional cultures that merely draw heavily on real ones.
ill just leave this here
>>76435 >Untitled Avatar the Last Airbender Project! >Last Airbender wat
MANAA, Asian American advocacy groups, and members of the Asian American community contacted the producers of The Last Airbender in early 2009. In the letters, voicemails, and emails, producers were made aware that the casting language "Caucasian or any other ethnicity" was discriminatory, and that this language had clearly affected the initial cast of lead actors. After over a year of ignoring public concerns over this casting language as well as the production's cultural competency as a whole, it is disingenuous for Frank Marshall to trot out his iteration of the casting language to excuse the production's repeated gaffes. The phrase "Caucasian or any other ethnicity"—language that would be unacceptable for any job posting that was truly open to all races—was used on every major casting website and document, including Paramount's own. http://manaa.blogspot.com/2010/04/manaa-responds-to-frank-marshalls.html
>>76452 I'm suddenly put to mind of the time when the Wachowski brothers tried to say Alan Moore was tote's cool with "V for Vendetta." Don't put words into people's mouth in Hollywood. >>76410 >Sokka was hunting some seal creature and following it's tracks when they reach a frozen part of the ocean/water. They look down and see that it is glowing underneath the ice so they use Sokkas boomerang to break the ice and a large ice berg appears that contains Aang. >Yes, when they trio first meet the Earth Benders they are in a camp seperated from their tribes because they can bend the earth. They begin to bend again after hearing Aang tell them that he is the Avatar. Okay, does Katara do fucking *anything* in this movie? >Towards the end of the fight Zuko suddenly turns to ice and the camera zooms on Katara who is behind him. Aang lets Zuko's head free from the ice and Katara and Aang leave to fight the battle. Gee, thanks. Strip her of two of her most important, defining moments (being the reason they found Aang and her speech to the Earthbenders) then have her go pro-ice on a dude because she's in a raw situation.
>>76461 >>Okay, does Katara do fucking *anything* in this movie? She makes dem sammichs.
You know what would be a good tweest for these damn movies? If at the end of the trilogy, it turns out the whole thing has been an Ember Island Players show and it cuts to the animated characters watching the stupid thing.
>>76466 Evangelion did it! Evangelion did it!
>>76475 No lulz in it. More lulz attained by trolling the movie and convincing the shows entire original fanbase into never to ever see it. The real Lulz will come after the release when the epic blandness of this film is finally unveiled.
Does anyone else find it odd that there hasn't really been any mention of the Kyoshi Warriors from anyone who's been to the screenings? It's possible that they could be in those 30 minutes of unseen/unedited footage, but isn't it weird that they're mostly absent? And if they are in there, you'd think the presence of a group of young women warriors would be enough to garner a mention. Never mind that there's been no mention whatsoever of Kyoshi herself. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? I mean, in addition to completely fucking up the casting they've also whittled down the roles of the competent and capable women from A:tLA into pretty much nothing. That right there should be reason enough to be mad.
>>76484 Suki is part of the promotional material for the movie, so she's gotta be there somehow. But if I had to take a guess, they're probably reducing any potential romance between Sokka and Suki in the first movie so that the Sokka/Yue thing builds up more, with Sokka/Suki starting in the next movie or something. It is weird that there's been really nothing talked about the Kyoshi Warriors, though.
>>76484 If there's no Azula at the very end or after the credits or anything, then we'll have an especially big reason to suspect that. But yeah, Avatar was pretty heavy on the girl power, yet Nick never seemed to embrace that aspect of the show before.
>>76486 i'm actually praying/hoping/whatever that they don't have azula in the first movie at all.
>>76485 I suppose that could be it, which I still think is kinda stupid. And it sort of plays to the notion that women can only be seen as love interests without any motivations of their own. Which just puts another strike against this disaster of a film. >>76486 They didn't really do that much, did they? What a stupid move on their part. But then I always did get the feeling that Nick treated the Avatar property like it's red-haired step-child and resented how popular it became rather than properly embracing it and cashing in accordingly. Weird, isn't it?
>>76495 that doesn't make much sense, you know, pretty much like everything Shyamalan says...
So Katara didn't have a fit of estrogen that stirred underlying icebergs, so that means all her accomplishments are absent from the film? Do you guys watch Fox News, by chance?
>>76498 Oh Ninja, don't you have anything else better to do with yourself other than continually checking on this thread to argue with people you don't agree with? Anyway, going from the responses of people who have attended the advance screenings it does kind of look like Katara's role has been diminished. So far, she sounds like a weepy follower to the men on their quest, which isn't how she is in the show. I can understand it if they don't have time to show things like her fight with Pakku, but they don't have to write the character to be a weepy pushover. Nor do they really need to kick the Kyoshi Warriors aside, especially since we've already seen Suki's promo shot and a group shot of them from the calendar. Don't worry Ninja boy, I don't really expect you to get any of this, and I completely expect you to contradict this just for the sake of being contradictory. This does seem to be your primary function here, after all.
>>76499 :|
>>76499 I still don't see your point. Most of the girl-power instances from the show were poorly written and don't serve strongly serve a central point other than "women can be influential, too." That's not unimportant or minor, but it can be done in other ways than GRRL POWER like it was done in the show with shotty combat dialogue. What exactly did the Kyoshi warriors do in the show that merits screen time? They showed Sokka that being a sexist is silly and to be humble, found Appa, and provided Azula and co with disguises. That's it, and any of those could easily be done different or better. What about Katara? Most of the first season, she is indeed a whiny (The Waterbending Scroll) oblivious (Jet) love interest (The Fortuneteller). Her bending doesn't become significant until she learns to heal (The Deserter) and learns under Pakku (last few episodes), and even then, her fight with Pakku is pretty unimportant. It's a great display of bending ability between student and master, but he doesn't agree to teach her because he was impressed by her ability or tenacity. He only teaches her because he notices her necklace, which reminded him that his ways got him rejected years ago and he takes the opportunity to change. Thematically, that has nothing to do with facing sexism or feminism - he didn't gain some profound understanding that separating the genders is a bad idea, he just remembered that it cockblocked him at some point in the past. No one's said there are no Kyoshi Warriors in the advance viewings, and while the absence of their mention is suspicious, if you think about it they don't really serve any purpose in the first season that can't be changed to arrive at the same results, and the same goes for Katara's overall development.
>>76506 >>Most of the girl-power instances from the show were poorly written and don't serve strongly serve a central point other than "women can be influential, too." Compared to what? According to whom?
Since it's sort of on topic at the moment, quick thing to mention. The significance of the necklace may have been reduced tremendously. That previous review said that the whole storyline with Yue being engaged to another has been scrapped, so the entire idea of the betrothal necklaces and arraigned marriages might not even be present. It says Sokka just shows up and they pretty much start being a couple. By the way, the deal with Pakku was realizing that the traditions of his tribe cost him Kanna, since she was unwilling to simply follow a typical girl's role in their society and be married off against her will. Plus, Katara's idea of convincing him to teach her was to kick his ass. I have yet to hear any such attitude from the movie, and despite Shyamalan saying he wouldn't do without her, not a single one of these reviews has praised her acting, nor her role in the story.
>>76506 Okay, I get it. Ninja was just watching a different show or something. He somehow managed to miss any and all of the thematic, aesthetic, or narrative depth that the show had, and saw it as a painfully generic and abysmal action series. That's why he's so gung ho about the movie. He thinks it's accurate.
>>76506 What's it like to be so god damned predictable? >>76508 This could be the case, but then it could be left out due to time constraints, but the important thing about the necklace for Katara is that is was given to her by her now deceased mother. I wonder if THAT will make it into the film. Also, Katara didn't "kick Pakku's ass", but man did she put up a fight that he was not expecting! I can see that being left out due to time constraints as well, but it's no excuse to turn her into weepy window dressing for the oh-so-strong and tough men heroes. That's the real problem.
>>76508 >the deal with Pakku was realizing that the traditions of his tribe cost him Kanna, since she was unwilling to simply follow a typical girl's role in their society and be married off against her will. That's what I thought, but it falls apart when we see that Pakku does nothing to change the actual paradigm. Publicizing his acceptance of Katara to his tribe may have been that change, but that's a stretch given that it doesn't show the effects of her acceptance into his instruction other than her beating all his other students. Again, the focus on her combat rather than the effects of it suggests to me that there wasn't much in terms of thematic progression with the Norther Water Tribe's views of women. Katara isn't presented to the other members of the tribe as an example of progress; rather, the opposite happens - she's paraded as an exception to the rule. This could be just lag in cultural change, but again, it was too obscure in the show to go either way definitively. As far as we know, Pakku didn't take up any other girls for training, Yue was still going to be married off against her will, and that's the way things still are in the tribe. Seemed like empty grrl-power to me. >Plus, Katara's idea of convincing him to teach her was to kick his ass. I have yet to hear any such attitude from the movie and despite Shyamalan saying he wouldn't do without her, not a single one of these reviews has praised her acting, nor her role in the story. The lack of support for Peltz' Katara is unsettling, but these viewer opinions are largely vague and unprofessional, so I don't expect them to be faithful to what they actually saw in the incomplete advanced viewing, let alone what we'll see in the final cut. One thing Shyamalan does really well with young actors is long-awaited emotional outbursts, so I doubt passing up Katara vs Pakku is something he'd consider. >76509 >76510 y'all mad :3
>>76499 >she sounds like a weepy follower to the men on their quest, which isn't how she is in the show. Now I'm picturing "Katara" in Ember Island Players...
>>76513 Yeah, this is pretty much "Ember Island Players: The Movie"
So essentially our fear that Katara's role is going to be reduced to wimpy, whiny tagalong is correct? Score another point for us "time travelers", but I wish we'd been wrong instead. >>76509 Beat me to it. >>76515 Good, at least he'll have a chance for a fresh start after The Last Failbender. I really do feel sorry for him that his first major role in a movie has been surrounded by controversy.
>>76537 In his heart, anon. In his heart.
It can fail in other ways *besides* the actual quality of the final film, you know...such as the ways it already has.
>>76543 Which are...?
>>76544 Is that honestly a question one of us has to answer?
Let's be realistic here. At this point, if you're still holding out hope for this movie, nothing is going to change your opinion short of seeing it yourself. Pre-screeners have run the gamut from okay to horrendously bad. And these are people that, for the most part, don't have a vested interest in the property like fans of the cartoon do. Fans that have seen copies of it? They have even less praise for it. So let's be real. If you want to see it, go see it. No one here is going to stop you. Just recognize that a lot of us have zero hope for it. There's a chance we'll be proven wrong, but it's not a big one. Having said that, going into this thing with low hopes is probably the best way to be pleasantly surprised.
>>76545 No, that would be silly at this point, which was my actual point. Anon says the movie fails, but acknowledges that speculation up to this point is just speculation. >>76547 says what I've been saying all along: don't have high standards for this, and you might actually like it. I...I think I'm done here.
>>76548 >I...I think I'm done here.
>>76548 Actually that's not what I was saying at all. What I was saying was "This is going to suck. Don't bother seeing it, but also don't bother arguing about it. Let's all pretend like it doesn't exist." Since let's face it. The kind of people that still hold out hope are going to like it regardless of how shit it is. They've convinced themselves there's some grain of watchability in this movie for so long that they're not going to be able to think otherwise when actually confronted with how shit it really is.
>>75508 幹你娘. 真正中文 was the best part of Avatar for me, seeing as I can read it!
>>76556 3/10. Weak troll is weak.
>>76553 >haters gonna hate, everyone else will be like whatever Yeah, pretty much.
>>76559 Exactly. Now, following this line of logic, we can see that it's actually impossible for this movie to be flawed in any way, since anyone that points out any flaw is just a hater, thus invalidating their argument.
>>76564 I can see how you'd think that given my poor wording. Allow me to address my mistake: >haters gonna hate, lovers gonna love, everyone else will be kind of like whatever What I mean by that the spectrum of excitement and dread for an adaptation of existing material always polarizes from "anyone who likes this should die" and "anyone who doesn't like this should die." These are haters and lovers, respectively, and manifest in every fanbase once announcement of an adaptation comes out. Both sides are very, very tiny groups of very, very vocal individuals who congregate to bounce their shared opinions off each other and raise intolerance to deviating ideas. This is not bad in and of itself, but the problems arise when these groups leave the internet forums and go amongst the public to spread their opinions in the form of infectious hyperbole and calls to action. This, again, is not bad in and of itself, but fanbases are largely private societies of people who like material enough to both watch and associate with those who watch it. Anyone not in the fanbase (the general public) doesn't know what the material is about, and the problems exacerbate due to this gap in interest: it's easy to twist a change in interpretation into a huge, social outcry because the general public doesn't know any better. You know how most of the world thinks America is like the Westboro Baptist Church, when in reality they're just a group of crazies who are actually despised by most Americans? Yeah, it's like that. On both sides. My point is that, at this point, there is no point. I have no reason to believe anyone in these threads who hates this production will not hate it when it comes out. The arguments have been stripped bare, and for the most part, logic doesn't matter anymore because there's emotional investment in hatred. There's no reason to see the worst possible outcome as inevitable reality unless you want it to be so. The protest petition against The Last Airbender (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?racebend) numbers 8,453 signatures*. The series finale of Avatar counted 5.6 million viewers (http://newsblaze.com/story/2008072213330300005.pnw/topstory.html). To get to the point: people who believe the casting of The Last Airbender is outrageous enough to protest constitute little more than one one-thousandth of a single percent of people who watched the Avatar finale. It's a very, very small group of people who are devoted to hating the production based on, as we've been through many times, weak logical bases. Even though Shyamalan and other top creative agents of the production have done numerous interviews and made many replies to these criticisms saying they heard you and don't think you have valid points, you persist. Does being a minority group with strong beliefs mean you're wrong? Even though I think folks ITT are a bit nitpicky, no. There's no proof that Shyamalan and crew watched Avatar, thought "these are Asian kids," but cast Caucasians anyways. There's no proof that Nicola Peltz's parents didn't pay off the studio to have their daughter in. There's no proof that the various changes to plot and aesthetics don't demonstrate a failure in appreciation or even attention to the source material. I've said it before and I'll say it again, at this point I think this movie is going to be a pile of shit. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the cast. You protested the wrong topic at the wrong time. You shouldn't feel bad if you want to see it because, with or without you, what will happen with this movie will happen. The audience is huge. Tens of millions huge. Nothing really matters at this point. All that's left is to see it for yourself and see if your predictions were true or not. And we all know that you'll say it's shit, even if you don't watch it and even if you turn out to think it was ok. * = That's not adjusting for repeat signings or spambots
>Even though Shyamalan and other top creative agents of the production have done numerous interviews and made many replies to these criticisms saying they heard you and don't think you have valid points, you persist. They haven't done this. Stop making shit up while accusing us of making shit up.
>>76569 I gotta say, you're doing a really shitty job of being done with this.
>>76570 http://io9.com/5504967/shyamalan-addresses-airbenders-race-controversy-and-answers-your-questions >Shyamalan: Here's the thing. The great thing about anime is that it's ambiguous. The features of the characters are an intentional mix of all features. It's intended to be ambiguous. That is completely its point. So when we watch Katara, my oldest daughter is literally a photo double of Katara in the cartoon. So that means that Katara is Indian, correct? No that's just in our house. And her friends who watch it, they see themselves in it. And that's what's so beautiful about anime. When we were casting, I was like, "I don't care who walks through my door, whoever is best for the part. I'm going to figure it out like a chessgame." Ideally we separate the nations ethnically — ideally. I didn't know how or what it was going to be. And it was so fluid. For example if you found a great brother, [but] he didn't go with my favorite Katara, then we couldn't use him. Theoretical things like that. There was an Ang that we really loved, but he was like 5'10." There's all kinds of issues that come to the table physically. And I had a board of all the people that I was considering, the seven or eight. There was, at one time, a Chinese Sokka and Katara, and they were over here. One of them was a better actor than the other, and so I was gathering my pros and cons. I was without an agenda, and just letting it come to the table. Noah is a photo double from the cartoon. He is spot on. I didn't know their backgrounds, and to me Noah had a slightly mixed quality to him. So I cast the Airbenders as all mixed-race. So when you see the monks, they are all mixed. And it kind of goes with the nomadic culture and the idea that over the years, all nationalities came together.The Fire Nation was the most complicated. I kept switching who was playing Zuko. It was such a complicated and drawn out thing, about practical matters. But the first person that I was considering casting for Zuko was Ecuadorian. So I started thinking that way. Then when that person couldn't do it, the next person who came in was much more Caucasian. And then we had to switch everything around. The Earth Nation was always the issue as well, because the second movie is so dominated by that group, and it will represent most of the movie. But it has a small, small part in the first movie. So that was important in thinking about it in the long term. Then Dev [Patel] came into the picture, he was really early on. He had auditioned for me in London. He was a sweet guy, but he did such a great reading...I always go for the actor. When I was doing Sixth Sense, if you literally read the script he [Cole Sear] has dark, hair black eyes. I always pictured the kid from Searching For Bobby Fisher as the lead for Sixth Sense. And I said, "We are not hiring any blonde LA kids, ok? Don't even bring them in." Then Haley [Joel Osment] came in and I said, "You've got the part." How can you not have him play this part? That's always been my lean. I have hopes of what I want them to be, my hope was that the movie would be incredibly diverse. That when we look back on all three movies that it is one of the most diverse movies of all times. And that is the case when you watch the movies. And it's not an agenda, like when you see a picture of a kid's school and they have everybody on the swings. It's not like that. This nation has this ethnicity and when we go deep into that culture, we will see more there. Dev ended up being my choice for Zuko, and I looked for an Uncle that could be in that realm, for a moment I thought about Ben Kingsley. But Shaun Toub, I just loved him in Iron Man. I thought this takes us into a Mediterranean kind of Arab and Indian world, and I can go as far as that, that will be the breadth of the Fire Nation, that kind of look. For me, Nicola [Peltz, who plays Katara] had a lot of Russian qualities, European and Russian qualities. So that was the direction we went there. Whoever I ended up with, I went that was their nationality. Suki was Jessica [Andres] who is a mix of Filipino. And now the Earth Kingdom is all Asian so Toph will have to be Asian. Suddenly I was looking at the board and I thought, this works for me, because everything was represented. And there's a section of the Earth Kingdom that's African American. Because it's such a big country and land I thought you could have some diversity in there as they travel through the cities. So more so than the show, it will have a much more diverse ethnic backgrounds to it. It's not an agenda for me, but it's something I'm super proud of. That when my kids or any kids look at it they will see themselves. http://www.ugo.com/movies/shyamalan-on-racebending >“It’s called irony,” Night said of the controversy in a follow-up phone call exclusive to UGO. >Jordan Hoffman: One of the complaints is this: you have Inuit actors playing the background of the water bending tribe, yet the two leads, Sokka and Katara, are white, so people looking for conspiracy will point to this. >M. Night Shyamalan: When you see the whole movie, where the characters go, the Northern Water Tribe all have the European look that Sokka and Katara have, with a few exceptions here and there. >Jordan Hoffman: The other day you said that the second film will feature a lot of the Earth Bending Nation, which is Asian, but there is a community within that that is African-American. >M. Night Shyamalan: That’s correct. And I’m pumped for that. >Jordan Hoffman: I once spoke to one of the great Star Trek writers, D.C. Fontana, who had a great response for when fans bugged her as to why some Klingons had ridges and some didn’t – her response was, “Humans look different – so can Klingons.” >M. Night Shyamalan: There you go. Well, it is the most culturally diverse tent-pole movie ever made. And I’m proud of it. It’s part of what drew me to the material, to see the faces of our whole world in this new world. And only time will assuage everyone and give them peace. Maybe they didn’t see the faces that they wanted to see but, overall, it is more than they could have expected. We’re in the tent and it looks like the U.N. in there. I can't find the other two by Frank Marshall. I think one of them was a tweet, but there ya go.
>>76572 >implying any of that doublespeak and effusive garbage actually addressed the issue
>>76573 >Protesters: This casting is racist! Everyone pay attention to us! >iO9 Interviewer: Yo Sham, people say you're racist. >Sham: Yo, that ain't the case. I actually have this shit planned out. >Protesters: That doesn't address the issues! It's still racist! Sham's lying! >UGO Interviewer: Yo Sham, people still says you racis. >Sham: Have they seen it? >Protesters: AAARRRRRRRRRRGHHHH SOOOOOO RAAAAAACIIIIIIIIIST
That follow up still doesn't address the fact that in the FINAL overview of the movie, the heroes are all caucasian, and the minor characters and villains are minorities. It doesn't, because that exact question was not asked.
>>76575 He addresses that in the first interview I just posted. It just kind of turned out that way after he settled on role selection. But I'm sure he's still a racist, amirite? There's just no other explanation!
>>76576 Doing something accidentally or unintentionally doesn't change the fact that it was done. The complaints come from the fact that fuck all was done to address the problem even AFTER it was pointed out. There was a conscious effort not to fix -or even talk about- the unfortunate implications until it was far too late to do anything about it. THAT is what people are pissed about.
>>76572 >So the first thing we did was, when I met Mike and Bryan, they hadn't finished season three. And really the first conversation was in my hotel room and I said, "Dudes, I gotta know this. You gotta give me this. This is critical. This has to end. If it doesn't end, I'm not on board. If you don't want to end it, it's all good. But it has to end." And they said they saw it as three seasons and the three elements he has to learn. And at that time, they didn't even know where the movie was going to end, even who Katara was going to end up with. But we all agreed and shook hands on that it was over, it ends, we're going to finish the tale. >And at that time, they didn't even know where the movie was going to end, even who Katara was going to end up with. ....But...Mike and Bryan have said the exact opposite in interviews. They've said multiple times, in fact, that they had that planned out from the start. So clearly, someone is bullshitting. Is it the people that made the show, or the guy that so far has made it pretty ambiguous that he's even watched the damn thing? >
>>76578 Of course it's all BS. Haven't you noticed how everything he says in interviews is about himself, his interpretation of everything and his own concerns? And how he repeats everything three or four fucking times in this obnoxious redundancy so he makes sure nobody understands what he says but can't do nothing but agree with his cacophony of nonsense? I'm starting to hate that guy. Really.
>>76572 >>Shyamalan: Here's the thing. The great thing about anime is that it's ambiguous. The features of the characters are an intentional mix of all features. It's intended to be ambiguous. Avatar wasn't ambiguous when in fact the characters outfits and eye color were coded so it was clear who is who and what community they belonged to. Fallacy detected. >>That is completely its point. Says Shyamalan. >>So when we watch Katara, my oldest daughter is literally a photo double of Katara in the cartoon. So that means that Katara is Indian, correct? No that's just in our house. Straw man argument. She wasn't pale and blonde in the cartoon, and it wasn't ambiguous. >>And her friends who watch it, they see themselves in it. And that's what's so beautiful about anime. Circular argument and/or argumentum ad populum. >>Jordan Hoffman: One of the complaints is this: you have Inuit actors playing the background of the water bending tribe, yet the two leads, Sokka and Katara, are white, so people looking for conspiracy will point to this. >>M. Night Shyamalan: When you see the whole movie, where the characters go, the Northern Water Tribe all have the European look that Sokka and Katara have, with a few exceptions here and there. Explaining it doesn't justify it. >>Jordan Hoffman: The other day you said that the second film will feature a lot of the Earth Bending Nation, which is Asian, but there is a community within that that is African-American. >>M. Night Shyamalan: That’s correct. And I’m pumped for that. African...American? What?
>>76577 You acknowledge that there may be reasons other than racism that the cast ended up the way it did, but say it's bad by appearance anyways? So there's no way a Caucasian can be a protagonist and/or minority races can be villains (even though there are no real villains in Avatar)?
>>76582 The very fact that you have to ask the question, and the very fact that there is this discussion in the first place, proves that the reasoning beyond the implications does not change that the implications exist. I don't get what's so hard to grasp about that. I GET why Shyamalan says he chose the cast as he did, but it still looks bad. And yes, when there are movies where the heroic characters are all race lifted to be white and the heroes and minor characters that need saving or are generally helpless are minorities, this DOES come up. I'd be hard pressed to think of a situation in which it hasn't. Forgive the hyperbole of this example, but let's put it this way. Say you accidentally hit someone's parked car. Instead of leaving a note or waiting for the guy to come back to his car, you speed off. Six months later the cops find you, and you explain that it was an accident and that you didn't mean it. Now, if you had just waited for the guy, and explain what happened, he might have let it go. He might not, but leaving the scene without a word or justification or ANY information doesn't help your case any. It's the same thing here. Shyamalan had almost a year to say "I chose who I thought was best". It's a flimsy excuse and it doesn't change the implications that the cast has, but it would've been SOMETHING. Instead he chose to wait until nearly the last minute to chime in on the issue. (Also, what? Zhao, Ozai, and Long Feng aren't villains?)
Wow, Ninja is no good at all at the "being done with this" thing, isn't he. Not to mention that every time someone brings up a detail from the show, he completely fails to recognise it. Clearly he's talking about some other show here, that's the only explanation.
>>76588 In b4 Ninja replies with memetic trolling.
>>76587 I'm not denying that it looks bad, but you're not explaining why if it looks bad it should never ever be depicted. Couldn't showing Caucasians from a polarized culture resembling that of Europe where women are suppressed and foreigners are feared forcing the failures of the world onto their children be a message? Couldn't the separation of ethnicities in the film make more bold connections between the themes of the story and their real-world manifestations? Couldn't race actually be a very tiny issue in the film; couldn't racism and war be shown as just divisive and imaginary tools used by people with power to keep it? Or, you know, it's just racist. Ok, whatever. If it looks bad, it has to be bad. Kids are too dumb to make connections like that, anyways, right?
>>76590 Why do you need us to explain this stuff to you?
>>76590 No, since the heroic water tribe is the white one, where the women aren't suppressed, and no, since they're successful at saving the world when all is said and done. Yes, and that's actually part of the problem in terms of the race complaints. Yes, but not in the greater scope of the movie as another example of what some people will deem systematic subliminal white supremacy, and...maybe. ...That last one makes no sense. Elaborate.
>>76598
>>76598 gb2/b/
>>76601 That is not the fault of anyone on this board. It's the fault of the individual who posted the thread on /adv/. And I've seen MAYBE three or four threads about this on that board since it started. And how you're able to pick them out amongst all the relationshit wangst that goes on there is beyond me, too bad I also don't give a fuck. If you don't like those threads, turn off your computer and do something else.
>>76556 Do you even know what a fucking weeaboo is? 靠北.
>>76601 sup Racs How's /tv/?
>>76603 No one dumb enough to still use the term actually knows what it means.
>>76537 I agree you can't really say unless you have seen the movie. That being said if you add up all the info that's come out about the movie, and take in to account who is directing it i can't really fault him for assuming it will be shit. I would like to say that i am going into this movie with extremely low expectations , but i'm not going to see it at all.m ( not in the theaters anyway.) I decided after The Village, that i would never blow 12 bucks on a film directed by Shayalaman again. Judging by his last two movies I would say i made the right decision. The animated series was great the way it was, some shitty movie by this hack director will only serve to tarnish it.
>>76582 The minority characters aren't just "villains" though. They are also random villagers, this is diversity, people!
>>76609 Making everyone important white, and everyone that doesn't matter ethnic is still racist.
>>76611 Everyone is important in the story. What the fuck; are Caucasians not ethnic in your world?
>>76613 Funny you should say that, considering that it seems whties are often treated as race-neutral in Hollywood, therefore it's okay for them to be anybody, but the same can't be said about minority actors playing other ethnicities. Didn't we already establish that every named protagonist is being played by a white actor/actress? And if they're a love interest for Sokka, they're played by a part-white actress? Don't pretend "Earthbending Boy" or "Old Man in the Temple" are as important characters as the people the story is actually about.
I laugh at the thought of Earthbending Boy's father saying his son would be playing such an important role all fans would inmediately recognize. FFS, his son's character doesn't even have a name. LOL.
It's scary how eager some people are to excuse and justify Frank Marshall even though he recognized the casting call to be poorly worded and offensive . http://lastairbenderfilm.com/2010/04/08/marshall-weighs-in-on-racebending
>>76615 >I see you're trying to avoid taking any responsibility for your actions, aye. You're bringing them over to our board whenever they come here and see this mess you could a thread. #1) What in the Sam Fuck are you talking about? #2) Hey fuckhead. Yeah, you, fuckhead. You do realize you’re responding to Anonymous, right? >Also, I don't need to be lectured by someone who probably never saw the light of day on your nerd base. Again, what the fuck are you talking about? The screenshot doesn’t make much sense either. It talks shit about plus4chan because it’s filled with ‘kind people’? Pardon us if we like to discuss popular media without random morons requesting Misty Kilgore fetish art and the various anontalk spambots. >Just take responsibly for yourself and end this pathetic racebending crap We would love Paramount to stop racebending the Avatar franchise, but they’re a bunch of butts. >before you get everyone blaming you for discrimination against them for wanting to see a movie. Very mediocre and quite ironic concern trolling there. >I know you're in a committed relationshit with racebending.com as well. I would say [citation needed] but, again, you’re accusing Anonymous of this. So nevermind. >The rest of this fandom is already viewing you as white knights which is just as worse as ordinary trolls. Source: Airbender.net. I also laughed when this is a site that once believed in the cause. (wtf grammar?) You need to learn what a White Knight is before calling people such a term, you really have no idea how off you are. And speaking of that website, the admins and their entire family made a protest video, just push play. >I'm still betting you all don your Guy Fawkes masks Those guys have been over at whyweprotest.net ever since late ‘08, Chanology is not a chan thing anymore.
>>76618 lol deleted post.
>>76625 >implying racebending.com advocates such behavior Try actually reading the website.
>>76631 >[citation needed] "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan
>>76633 Never been there, I only browse /co/ and /sp/. Try again.
>Freud !hYSYHvZriw >Racs_for_Macs !.dh1bE7X66 >Thread in /baw/ All the same IP. Banned for trolling. Please report and ignore future posts.
And I just went ahead and nuked all posts by Racs and Freud on /a/, which ended up being 80 posts.
>>76638 >>76639 MODS = GODS
>LeDoctor >3-D confirmed... http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118018175.html?categoryid=13&cs=1&ref=vertfilm >LeDoctor >We have been looking at the 3-D for months. The movie was designed to take advantage of the conversion and the filmmakers will supervise.
>>76661 I'll laugh if it turns out to be as shitty as Titans' conversion.
Meh. The only good 3D Film since this fad started has been How to Train Your Dragon.
>>76661 Now this is interesting. It sounds short notice, but Paramount notes that the process has been ongoing for over a year. Gotta see more before I'm sold. Also, inb4 Twilight 3D
That's kinda risky. People are wary of 3D now thanks to Clash of the Titans. Also, it works better with vibrant color palettes, since the glasses and the process tends to blur portions of the movie and darken the film. For animation or something like James Cameron's Avatar, it's better, but we're getting some seriously dark scenes from what the previews show (I mean that literally, not in terms of the story, though I suppose it works.) Not to mention that it takes thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars per minute. I remember reading an article that Titans was done by an overseas company in India in a relatively short span of time, but it was still expensive. Still, they only showed M. Night footage three months ago and they approved of having the conversion done? They're all about cutting it close to the line with this movie, aren't they? Doesn't help that Toy Story 3 and it's own 3D version are almost guaranteed to still be showing by then.
>>76667 The article by Variety says the conversion process for Airbender only cost about $10 million and they've actually been working on it for over a year. Clash of the Titans decided to go 3D in 8 weeks with a relatively new company. It could go either way, but so far it doesn't seem like a 3D movie, or at least not one worth paying the extra money for.
New trailer: http://trailers.apple.com/trailers/paramount/thelastairbender/ Gonna post my thoughts here as I watch it: Appa looks nifty. The shot of Iroh with fire on his hand is really nice, too. The set of the Fire Nation throne room feels more light and marbly than I'd like, but other than that it's OK. Seeing the Komodos was cool, but something about their skin looked particularly off (which is odd, considering how much realer Appa looked and how much easier it should be to do scales than fur). As before, I'm impressed with the direction they took with the NWT's architectural design, and the extra bit we see confirms that for me. We see Yue, and the first thing that came to mind was just how dark her eyebrows are compared with her hair. :( At least her costume looks nice from what we can see. There's a shot of Aang and a Dragon, and frankly the Dragon's skin also looks too CG (I think it might be a result of the very dark setting, where there's not as much chance for the model to interact with the light of the location, making him seem more like a detached render). I also really don't like either of their voices from this shot. It might just be the timing with the music, but the shot of the Blue Spirit fight was one of the highlights of the trailer for me. I predict that the better combat scenes are going to be more traditional martial arts style combat -- lots of close quarters instead of people standing far apart sending elements at each other. The show was like this as well, where fights were more exciting as the combatants had lots of mobility or were close to each other, and at least in the trailer I don't see as much of that on the bending battle side. The last shots (Koizilla) were impressive, both in special effects and the framing of shots, which really gave an otherworldly feel. I think that the cinematographer knows what he's doing when it comes to setting up these shots. So the trailer basically supported what I had been feeling. Special effects, fight scenes, neat costumes and sets? Not bad at all. Acting and dialogue? A very strong "meh," if even that. It certainly is a reminder of what this film could be had odd decisions and changes throughout not happened. But at least Iroh looks pretty sweet.
>>76674 Ozai looked like poop. :(
Oh and Youtube version because Apple's site is a butt.
>>76674 >It has begun.
At 0:45 when Aang is separating the water, is dat sum Pakku?
I look forward to seeing this when it hits Cable TV.
>>76678 Mortal Kombat is a better adaptation of its franchise than The Last Airbender will be.
If they were gonna give Gabrielle blue contacts, could they at least have not gone with electric blue? It's just kinda creepy-looking. Plus, her eyebrows are still black.
>>76677 At 1:49, when there's a bit of air vs fire between Zuko and Aang. Look at Zuko right after Aang brings a big glob of air forward to disperse the fire. Seriously, WTF is Zuko doing? It looks like he's shaking his head and keeping his arms out sideways for no apparent reason, and there is still fire being shot forward even though he's just standing there. Also, wtf dragon? I had hoped is was just a silly rumor... Holey carp they better not have replaced KOH with a fucking dragon. Thats' right where Koh would be in the story too... And whar is mah Koizilla? Aang doesn't go all decimation on the Fire Navy by himself, he needs to be possessed by the insane rage of an angry koi fish to drive him to such lengths. Rar.
>>76683 Isn't that just Roku's dragon?
>>76684 No, I'm pretty sure it's probably the Gene Simmons Spirit Dragon that takes Roku's place in this movie. Remember that Fang, Roku's dragon, was a Chinese Dragon, not a Western one, like this one seems to be. Also, it couldn't talk.
>>76681 Seconded. Ack, I hate what they've done with this movie. 3D looks worse than Beowulf...
1:15 lol stuntgirl
Oh fuck me I'm still going to see it in theaters. It's just... so... pretty...
>>76696 *Joke about how you mean the other avatar moive*
I WILL STOP THEM
>>76699 You may already be too lame late.
AT least Hollywood is finally learning from their mistakes. http://www.cinematical.com/2010/04/23/is-he-kidding-mickey-rourke-as-genghis-khan/ Oh wait, did I say learning, I meant completely ignoring.
>>76736 ...But...the sequel to Mongol is coming out later this year...w...why...
>>76736 From the link: >Why choose the worst photo of mickey rourke to criticize his playing Genghis Khan? So what if he's white and he's playing an Asian ruler. Get over it already. He's an actor and isn't that what actors are supposed to do-dress up, wear make-up and make-believe? >The fact that Mickey Rourke has risen from the ashes of his own darkness and is working again is to be supported and applauded, not undermined by small-minded wannabe critics who want to classify art through a reverse type of so-called politically correct stereotypes. I wish both Milius and Rourke luck in their creative venture.
>>76737 It's Hollywood's counter-attack.
Is it just me or is it hard to hear what anyone is saying in this trailer? Towards the end Zuko says something I can't make out and Iroh responds and I can't hear what either of them are saying. Other than that, visual effects look great, acting looks bad. Oh, and I almost burst out laughing when I realized I was looking at the Blue Spirit fight. That mask looks funny.
my biggest concern is that we've yet to see ANY Zhao in any of the trailers or promotional material. We don't even know what Mandvi looks lie in costume. Not even any photos. Just seems a little weird for someone who should, essentially, be the main bad guy for the first movie.
>>76773 He's right here, looking dopey for some reason.
Something else I've noticed. Is it just me, or is everything we're seeing from the siege on the North? You know, the finale? Where all the cool stuff the movie should build up to is supposed to happen? We even see Mandvi bite it when all the water comes down on him in that scene, is this one of those times where everthing cool is in the trialer and the rest is forgettable? Alternatively, is it like the trailers for The Mask, where all the gags are featured in the trailers, and we can basically walk away, knowing we've basically seen high points of the movie?Maybe not, but what does that say for the rest of the moviegoers? We've seen the show, we can recognize what's what, but everybody else sees this big huge battle without the notion that everything takes place at the end (even the early test screenings say the parts with Yue last about 20 minutes.)
>>76775 Highlighting the action-filled parts, I suppose. Nothing new, especially for trailers.
>>74238No, its pretty standard to do so, but that's kinda the (possible) problem, isn't it? All the cool action parts being at the end could mean that we get scattered action, tons of expositon, and the end is all ADHD, because "oh shit, we're almost out of movie."I'm no movie expert, but what can they do with extra scenes filmed this late?
>>76774 The chroma keying is hideously noticeable.
>>76779 I'm pretty sure there's going to be plenty of action throughout the film.
>>76779 >>I'm no movie expert, but what can they do with extra scenes filmed this late? Panoramic travellings or something, not sure either. >>76786 Yeah, filling to the brim with plenty of action scenes throughout the film is one way to hide the cultural dismantlement.
>>76787 Uhhhhh sure, that's one way of putting it.
We know there are at least two action sequences in the movie. The blue spirit sequence, and the siege on the north. ...Shit. I just realized the Yu-Yan archers probably didn't make the cut. I liked those guys, even if they were criminally underutilized.
>>76736 http://www.cinematical.com/2010/04/23/is-he-kidding-mickey-rourke-as-genghis-khan/6#c27402864 >If you look at the statue of Ghengis Khan, and look at Mickey, all they would have to do is to change his eyes, and give him a tan !! I think he would do well in this part !! Why does this sound familiar? Reading all those comments is giving me a fucking headache. Just like with this movie, you have comments on the hawtness of the actor, ignorant arguments, and accusing the ones upset about the racefail being the real racists. We are a long, long way from a "post racial" world, I guess I just didn't realize how bad things were until I started protesting TLA.
>>76807 >>I just didn't realize how bad things were until I started protesting TLA. Same here. I've learned a lot of things I didn't know, historical facts, sociology stuff... At least it's been the only positive side of this experience. People want to believe in this idea of a "post racial" society because it's easy and comfortable, so they won't listen to any of us if their first impression is that you're threatening to take their emotional safety away. I've started to avoid using the word "race" at all, and referring to this stuff as "cultural appropiation" and "historical and/or contextual inaccuracy". It's the way I found to avoid being mislabelled as "racist", and helps me make my points clearer.
>only Asian people can play this role >everyone is racist but me!
>>76814 Ninja, wtf are you even on about? It's one thing if you want to have ridiculous "debates" about the races of characters on ATLA, but Genghis Khan was AN ACTUAL MOTHERFUCKING MONGOL. A HISTORICAL FIGURE WHO LIVED. IN MONGOLIA. JFC When we start seeing an Asian George Washington or Alexander the Great being played by a black man, THEN we can have a conversation about our "post racial" society and how it's "about the actor." Until then, get your head out of your fucking ass.
>>76817 Alexander was Mediterranean. He could've had dark skin.
>>76817 Don't get mad because I'm pointing out how poorly thought-out and contradicting your argument is. >we should be moving towards a post-racial society >LET'S KEEP MOVIE ROLES SEPARATED BY RACE TO SHOW EVERYONE HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE!
>>76820 But he's right. Only Asian people can really be Asian. And this isn't like Avatar where it arguably doesn't matter. Genghis Khan was a real person. We know what race he was. It's historically documented fact. I mean, you can't possibly be saying that white people can be any race.
>>76821 Genghis Khan was a real person. Mickey Rourke as Genghis Khan is not. Don't tell me Mickey Rourke can't be a badass motherfucking Khan.
>76822 Not as badass as Ken Watanabe would be.
>>76823 A Japanese guy as a Mongolian? What kind of fucking racist are you?
>>76820 Yeah, a movie where a black Abe Lincoln frees white slaves. I wonder how well would America take that.
It's not a question of whether or not he *can* play Khan, its whether or not he *should.* Michael Clarke Duncan is also a damn good actor, and he's not any more Mongolian than Rourke, but you can be sure the argument would be quite different if he had been chosen (Just look at the type of backlash to Duncan as The Kingpin, or Idris Elba as Hemidal.) Once again, it goes into the whole problems of cultural appropriation, the glass ceiling for non-white actors, and the prevalent attitude in Hollywood (and perhaps America) that white actors can play anybody, regardless of the ethnicity of the character, when the reverse is not true. I'm beginning to think people should stop saying "post-racial," since so many seem to think that means never ever acknowledging race, even when we should. Treating race as something transient, taboo, and/or wholly irrelevant really only serves to create larger divides. Hell, studies show that kids who are actually taught about racial issues end up with better attitudes towards race than those that are just constantly told "we are all equal," but taught none of the context or history. >>76824 "Mongol" kinda already did that. It'd still be inaccurate, but it would be better than what we've got now, kinda like an English actor playing a French character, maybe. I wonder how that fits into things. America kinda forced (and still forces, really) wide-group classification, so that anybody who looks a certain way or is from a certain area gets pushed into a big, easy group. Like Chinese, Koreans, Japanese and others being put into a big sorta pan-Asian supergroup, or how it happened with Italians back during the immigration wave (only a little bit worse, since at least people from Venice, Tuscany, Rome, ect. at least had a common language. More than we can say about all the different people that comprise "Asians" in this country.)
>>76827 What studies?
>>76828 I believe he's referring to this article, which quotes various other sources: http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2010/02/how-to-raise-racist-kids/
A key that can open any lock is called a master key. Therefore, we can assume that white people, with their ability to play any ethnicity, are... ...Oh wait.
>>76401 >>76404 >>76439 >Wow, you really know your stuff. Interesting about the dragons too, that's news to me. Do you think some of the Korean influence comes from the fact that the animators are Korean? I remember the volleyball game from The Beach was based on a Korean style, but that just turned out to be a happy coincidence, if I'm remembering the DVD commentary right. Thank you. And sorry for responding so late. Dragons are actually one of those cultural things that Asian nationalities contest the origins of; always trying to claim them as their own. Chinese folk belief states that dragons originated in China and lost a toe the further they traveled from there and so stopped in Japan for fear of losing all toes. Japanese believe the opposite: that they grew a toe the further they went from Japan and stopped in China to avoid growing too many toes. Japanese dragons are considerably more vain. The earliest depictions of dragons had actually been found in the "Hongshan culture," dating to 4700 B.C.E. in what is now Northeastern China. It's also the first site to show evidence of a belief in feng shui. They didn't exactly look like the oriental dragon of today, they're actually called pig dragons because of their pig-like appearance. It's believed that the pig must have had some kind of religious significance for the Hongshan culture. My theory, and this is just my theory, is that they're based on pig mooncalves. A pig fetus looks relatively long and lithe compared to an adult pig and I can only speculate that depictions became more stylized with every passing century and so eventually their serpentine bodies became more and more associated with snakes. Due to the age of the site, oriental dragons can't really be claimed to belong to any one culture; it's location in the north placed it out of reach of Huaxia civilization and many of it's artifacts indeed are not reflected in any other Chinese culture. Many would regard the site as being Chinese simply because it's within the borders of modern day China. It's actually more likely the Hongshan were ancestors of the Khitan, Mohe and Korean peoples. Goguryeo art does feature much "Celtic-like" stylized elongation of animals, Korean folklore has a long belief in water serpents/larval dragons called imugi and as I said earlier pigs possibly held some significance in Baekje religion. Anyway to answer your question; the fact that the animators are Korean probably does have a lot to do with it but most likely not by choice of the animators. Rather it's more likely Mike and Bryan probably felt they should acknowledge the culture of their labor pool in their work that takes so much from the region of those workers' homeland. I'd read interviews in which Bryke declared a desire to promote these Korean animators because even a lot of Koreans apparently don't know that so many shows and movies are animated there. I'm sure they probably took in a bit of the culture when they visited Korea too - their biggest tourist traps are the cultural heritage sites and museums. Bryke may have also had the same popular misconception that Korea, being in pretty much the center of East Asia, would be like some Pan-Asian culture within itself when researching for their world building, and so would figure in nicely. I think the most direct influence the animators had on Avatar was that the art style much more resembles Korean manhwa aenimeisyeon than Japanese anime. I remembered some other possible Korean influences: Koh may have been inspired by the Korean dalgyal gwishin, literally "egg ghost," whose face was without features - smooth like an eggshell - and so they would steal the faces of anyone with the poor fortune to come across them. It's the only face-stealing ghost from legitimate folklore I know of. Koh's lair is somewhat like some depictions of the Sindansu, Korea's world tree, as it's seen in Jeoseung, Korea's spirit world - only by the roots. I assume it's no surprise that the post here - >>75882 - about Bleach was also written by me. I forgot to mention back then about how in Korean mythology bones growing on the outside of one's body was a symbol of spiritual power. Also, like in Avatar, Koreans often made their own swords to act as an artistic representation of their spirit. I don't actually think Bleach is influenced by Korean culture at all but it is interesting that it's more similar to it than anything else. >You should consider making a blog about the cultural influences in Avatar. I'd definitely read it. >This! I'd definitely read more about the influences in this sort of detail -- the Internet often seems disappointingly scarce with such things. Thank you. I really wish I could say all this time I've been gone I was working on it but I'm a bit ashamed to say that I haven't the first clue about blogging. I occasionally read others' blogs but I'd never considered doing it myself. I also have to say that seems like a very oddly specific thing to blog about. This thread's really been moving a lot faster than I'd thought it would be. I hope I hadn't lost all relevance. >That was brilliant. I had a little knowledge-gasm reading that. Thank you. Or should I say you're welcome? >>76402 I'd got them from a part of the episode "Tales of Ba Sing Se" that's essentially out of universe: the mini-episodes' title cards. But when it comes to Chinese script, misspellings don't generally occur because of differences in spoken language. Korean and Japanese grammar are completely different from and unrelated to Chinese languages but their lexicons are almost completely taken from Chinese. The written word was almost completely mutually intelligible in East Asia and so acted as a lingua franca throughout it's history. >>76394 Thanks for trying to save me some trouble but I will elaborate on my meaning. I can understand why one would be confused by what was said and had actually expected this response even if there was no confusion at all. First off, Ninja, I said the Avatar world's script was identical, not nearly identical to Hanzi. It does correspond to real language, just as most other things in the Avatarverse correspond to their respective inspirations. But the characters' names cannot be mispronounced by themselves; a name is simply a sound with meaning attached to it whose function is to designate a person, place or thing. The name of Eureka, the leading woman in an anime series, is pronounced Eh-oo-reck-a or El-reck-a; we all know the word isn't pronounced this way, but her name isn't the word eureka (which actually isn't pronounced the way you're familiar with either) it's Eureka. Another anime character is named Sùifēng 砕蜂 but is pronounced like Soy-phone and consequently romanized as Soifon. These pronunciations are of course derived from Japanese and incorporates their accent but due to the fluidity of language aren't any less genuine of names. I mentioned Hanzi as a lingua franca just a bit earlier. In real life the character 氣 can be pronounced as chi (Mandarin), gi (Korean), ki (Japanese), hei (Cantonese), or xi (Vietnamese) yet all readings are absolutely correct in their respective spoken languages. "Iroh" is just the Avatar world's pronunciation of 艾洛. But I don't know, I suppose it doesn't matter anymore because the movie doesn't use Chinese characters at all. There's a metafictional theory that I sort of believe in called "pantheistic solipsism." It states that all fictional worlds created by a human mind, or perhaps not created but channeled, exist in other dimensions. If the cultural influences in Avatar is any indication of a dimensional commonality, as nexus points or intersections, this world shares with the Avatarverse and if the people can be identified as human and represented by real world actors, and I assume they must as they approximate human forms and refer to themselves as human, then it would only be natural that the inhabitants of what the show's ipbible describes as an "ancient, fantastical Asian environment" depicted in a style developed by Asian artists to primarily represent Asian characters to be Asian people. After all, ethnogenesis and cultural transmission both came about as reactions to natural geography. The lowest common denominator for all the cultures that went into Avatar was that they'd all been historically placed within the Mongoloid race. And by the way, I obey no master, I'm self employed. Shyamalan can change the names to whatever he wants but to say that his reasons for doing so is to make them more accurately reflect cultural influences is plain bullshit. Mine, and the Racebending movement's problem with TLA isn't the changes Shyamalan made to the Avatar world but the decisions made prior to them that necessitated those changes. The language of the casting call, of all of them, is discriminatory and in the U.S. utilizing discriminatory language in your employing practices is a crime. Overall I do agree with you, Ninja. I know that I know nothing. There is no way to prove that the characters in Avatar are Asian simply because they don't exist. Even if Mike and Bryan, the gods of their world, said so there would still be no way to prove they were Asian. All one can do is add up all the observed facts and make presumptions to fill in the gaps. If the Avatarverse possesses properties that distort our perception of their world, there would be no means of detecting the fact as everyone is normal to himself. Shyamalan's Airbender is merely a variation from the accepted normal of the show that we know. Ultimately we can only rely on the evidence of our senses. And when it isn't explicitly stated within the fiction itself observations can be interpreted very differently and, as evidenced by the pro-casters' support of Paramount's decisions, very often unwisely.
>>76843 Would you agree that, despite being heavily influenced by various cultures, shifting of these influences does not inherently separate the adaptation from the show in terms of themes, and if so, the noted changes to surface features have the potential to reveal the material we're familiar with in a different way?
By having the water tribe as whites it removes the the 'colonial guilt' vibe it would otherwise evoke. The water tribe are a peaceful primitive people in tune with the environment, where as the fire nation are technologically advanced imperialistic conquerors. Look at Cameron's Avatar. I guarantee you making all the brown people Navi while keeping the military as essentially white was intentional.
>>76844I'm gonna say "no." If Avatar had been older, less popular, or less established, maybe. But once again, since this is a (now) ongoing franchise, the discrepancies in culture and race are just a poor direction to take overall.>>76848They aren't "primative," they were attacked and hounded and actively fucked with for a century until small communities were all that was left of a formerly great sister civilization to the North. Don't forget that despite that, they have a small militia that was actually asked by the Earth Kingdom to help in the war, and led an infantry assault on the Fire Nation capital later.
>>76849 Poor wording. I meant that they're comparatively primitive compared to the other two cultures we see.
>>76850 Well, technologically speaking.
>>76850 >>76851 It's not really primative, though. *Everybody's* behind the Fire Nation, technology-wise, but everybody else just uses bending. I mean, the floodgates and canal system that the Northern Water Tribe uses was actually pretty accurate compared to the real life systems we use, and Earthbenders can use their whole cities as weapons or tools of commerce. If the Southern Water Tribe hadn't lost all their benders and forced into small, semi-nomadic groups from almost a century of war, they'd have been just like the North in terms of technology, infrastructure, and the like. It's not that they were primitive, they're just war-ravaged and probably desperately poor.
>>76852 But even then, what we see of the Northern Tribe does not seem to extend beyond the canal and waterway system. Whereas in the Earth kingdom we see infrastructures like railways and post offices, and the fire nation obviously has manufacturing plants and air travel and the like by the middle of book 3, we never see the water tribes, Northern or Southern, display any other major hallmarks of an "advanced" civilization.
>>76853 A good point, but that could be just because the focus of the episodes was elsewhere. We didn't see much of the Air Nomads either, all we know about are the gliders and Bison, but are they also primitive? I mean, think about it: They the North has a complex canal system run at least partially by bending, that has to be maintained and managed somehow, just like the railways. If they had spent more than three episodes (four if you count The Puppetmaster) seeing the Water Tribes at their peak, we might have seen more "advanced technology" (as opposed to the many episodes spent in the various places of the Earth Kingdom letting us see plenty of the innovations.)
>>76820 Because your alternative, yellowface, is the most progressive thing on earth! How could we people with ACTUAL yellow faces have overlooked this?
>>Iroh calls rice congee by its Korean name, "jook." Every dragon appearing on the show had four toes; Chinese dragons have five, Japanese dragons have three. I think "jook" is also a Cantonese pronunciation of 粥. (Both this and the Sino-Korean pronunciation are derived from Middle Chinese.) I have to dispute with you about the dragons. Five toes was EXCLUSIVELY reserved for royalty. Any depiction of a dragon that had five toes and was NOT related to the Imperial household was punishable by death. Otherwise, Chinese dragons generally have four toes. It's easy to believe that FN is "Japanese" and EK is "Chinese" based on the general distribution of names. FN names tend to be polysyllabic, like in Japanese while EK names are monosyllabic, as in Chinese. Of course, you'll have exceptions such as "Ty Lee" and "Suki".
>>76863 Well, Kyoshi has a whole Ainu/Japan thing going on for itself; they're pretty separate from the Earth Kingdom on the whole.
Fire Nation names aren't all that polysyllabic, really. You have "Ty Lee" and "Zuko" and "Azula" but you also have "Bumi" and "Long Feng." Not to mention, Zhao shares his name with Zhao Mengfu, a famous artist in Chinese history.
>>76862 How are the casting decisions behind this adaptation "yellowface?" Be specific and have a structured argument prepared; I don't think anyone wants to see us go back and forth about how they are or are not explicitly Asian.
>>76872 He was talking about Rourke as Genghis Khan. And unlike Avatar, you really don't have a leg to stand on in terms of claiming Khan as not being Asian. Having said that, having Rourke play Khan in makeup to look Asian is yellowface. Just having him without the makeup would be racelifting a historical character. Not the same thing, but both are pretty bad. ...And you act like we won't be going back and forth anyway.
Can anyone really say Genghis Khan didn't look like Mickey Rourke? All those paintings and statues were always stylized, and they all looked the same regardless of who they depicted.
>>76873 There's actually reason to believe Temujin's mother's clan was actually Chinese and his father's clan mixed with Serbs and Turks. But hey, Asian is Asian, amirite? It's as simple as what their name sounds like and where they were born, amirite guys?
I watched The Village yesterday and man, that was one boring movie. People say Shyamalan's not to blame for the casting decisions. But I remember Shyamalan being the one announcing his intentions of making this adaption in first place. I mean, didn't he think about possible implications on this? "They might want me to have Miley Cyrus playing Katara. They might want Zac Efron playing Sokka! Who knows what else they might want. Maybe they'll have incompetent designers changing this beautiful Chinese calligraphy logo for some generic Trajan Pro Regular action movie logo." But he didn't think about the simplest implications. He compromised the integrity of the franchise, delaying the production of the artbook, the animation specials and everything else through his adaptation that never meant to be. All we get are his justifications, his arrogance and irresponsability. He's to blame for this, just as much everyone else in Paramount, he's not an untouchable and misunderstood visionary.
Indeed, the race discussion is just a small part of what goes into making this movie look like it'll suck.
Asian is Asian. Rourke is not.
>>76875 See, Ninja, this right here is why people are so damn sure you're a troll. You could've just admitted you were mistaken as to what that poster was referring to, but no, you'd much rather just condescend and try and claim logical superiority again. But hey, let's say that, as you say MIGHT be the case, Genghis Khan was only half Chinese at best. Let's say that he's also got some Serbian and Turkish ancestry. Rourke is French-Irish. That's still further geographically from the historical figure he's supposed to be playing.
>>76880 My point is that what defines someone's race is entirely up to who is talking. It's a completely fictional and scientifically retarded idea that the human species is separated on some fundamental level due to phenotypes and geography. Calling the casting of The Last Airbender racist because it takes preference for Caucasians over Asians is like saying lemons aren't fruit because they're not sweet. You think the characters are Asian, so you can't possibly conceive of an alternative interpretation beyond your own. There's absolutely nothing in either of those arguments grounded in any reason beyond what your feelings are about the taste left in your mouth. To me, that sounds like a personal problem.
>>76881 Saying that "no races exist" is an interesting concept, but it's one that unfortunately society is nowhere near yet. The very fact that we're having this conversation is evidence of that. Second, the definition of racism, unless it's changed since I had to report on it back in grade school, is the belief that inherent differences among the various human races determine achievement. Showing preferential treatment insures a likelihood of better treatment. By your own admission just now, the casting for The Last Airbender shows preferential treatment for Caucasians. But if the idea that the human species is separated due to phenotypes and geography, is, as you said, "completely fictional and scientifically retarded"... Then why doesn't it follow that they filmmakers were wrong for showing that preference? Shouldn't it have not mattered, and they could've just said "Everyone come audition"? And as far as projecting goes, hell yes, I'm projecting. I'm trying my best to be objective, but it's impossible to be completely on the subject of race. And I'm willing to bet you're projecting a little to, whether you realize it or not.
>>76881 >> It's a completely fictional and scientifically retarded idea that the human species is separated on some fundamental level due to phenotypes and geography. So how we explain Masais being so tall and Pigmies being so small...?
>>76882 Preference for specific physical features isn't necessarily differential treatment of races. While the Water Tribes do inhabit Avatar's north and south poles, it's entirely possible for those with paler skin to live there and it seems entirely possible that preference for Caucasian applicants, however poorly-worded and indirectly offensive as it may be, could have just been the easier way to say what they were looking for - lighter complexions with Anglo/European features.
>Preference for specific physical features isn't necessarily differential treatment of races. ...Yes it is. Unless we're saying that race isn't a physical feature now.
>>76894 Just because race is a purely physical categorization doesn't mean that anything physical is racial.
>>76895 You're right. It's only racist if it's on the basis of skin color and ethnicity. If, say, it were on the basis of sexual organs, then it'd be sexism. The rational behind it may be what it is, but at the end of the day they essentially said "We do not want you if you are of this ethnicity." That's discrimination.
>>76897 But the casting call read "Caucasian or any other ethnicity?" Preference isn't necessarily negative s'all I'm saying.
Race is real, even babies can tell the difference, *Nationality* is a social construct. Race is blurry, the changes between ethnicities are usually very gradual if you look at the raw geography of it with some chart like that, the difference between anybody of any race is much less than 1%, and it has no bearing on achievement or ability, but the production still prioritized one race (or racial group if you wanna play it that way) over all the others to play the named protagonists, even above the actual people that the characters were based off, all while still acknowledging the difference (unless filling the background of the Southern Water Tribe with entirely Inuit extras, or Rathbone realizing that he'd "need a tan" is somehow something entirely distant from race and not regarding Sokka's natural melanin production. I don't want to see anybody argue that they're white because their Grandmother is white, being that she's from the North, either. Unless Hakoda's father and Kya were both White in this movie, they'd be 3/4ths Inuit/Southern Water Tribe and 1/4 White/Northern Water Tribe, not perfectly lily-white like Rathbone and Peltz) I need to say this again, but it isn't about whether or not White people could believably exist in an East Asian/Inuit fantasy world, but the constant culture of shoehorning White actors into lead roles, even if the character wasn't white, all while shoving almost everybody else into constantly being side characters and pretty background decorations.
>>76905 And the Colored Water Fountains worked just fine as the ones for whites, the back of the bus had comfy seats too, and who really wants to eat at the counter anyway?
So who wants to make predictions on opening box office and total grosses? My guess is that it's going to either be JUST profitable enough for a sequel, or not quite profitable enough for a sequel. Which means, I guess, that it'd have to do about $150 million or so worldwide and have decent DVD sales. I dunno about Avatar's international appeal, but my best guess is that it's going to make $70-90 million or so in the domestic box office. Opening domestic box office of $35 million, maybe?
>>76905 >Preference isn't necessarily negative s'all I'm saying. It is to the people that aren't preferred.
>>76913 Depending on whether Twilight maintains momentum beyond its first weekend (doubt it) and if Toy Story 3 experiences a full Pixar effect (don't doubt it), my guess is between $32 and $35 million.
>>76917 Eclipse will do well and, despite the fact that it comes out three days before The Last Airbender, it will run in many theaters after TLA is gone. The domestic gross for the last Twilight film was almost 300 million, which was more than the first Twilight film's domestic gross of 192+ million, and more than the combined domestic gross for Shyamalan's last three films. New Moon surpassed the domestic gross total for every film Shyamalan has ever made. International gross, too, but I'm told the studios don't care much about the international gross. Not sure how true that is... Eclipse will probably earn between 350 and 375 million (conservative estimate). Totaling in the international box office gross, TLA might make the $150 million it cost to produce it. (I'm assuming they stayed on budget?).
>>76919 I'm guessing there's about a 40% chance they turn a profit on the movie in theatres, and maybe 60% that the combined theatrical + DVD gross is enough to greenlight a sequel. I kinda hope they do make a sequel. Maybe with a different director. :x
>>76920 Fantastic Four got a sequel. The Last Airbender definitely will.
>>76928 That's kinda true, but kinda not. Fantastic Four had crap reviews and it didn't really blast anything out of the water *but* it had a huge, decades old franchise brimming with recent and long-time fans that wasn't split between seeing the movie and outright protesting it, and a decent advertising campaign. All those factors produce results, it was #1 in the box office for it's opening weekend, something that Eclipse is almost guaranteed to keep from Airbender. And, all-right, I don't know how to define "blasting things out of the water" But it had a budget of about $100 million, with the domestic gross being $152 million; a profit of 52 million dollars isn't something to shake a stick at, plus it's worldwide gross was about 330 million but I'm not a production company, so I don't know if that's good or not. Still, what exactly is the fucking budget for this movie? Last I remember, it's $250 million divided among three movies with the largest chunk thus far going toward this first one.
TLA movie is one kind of expensive mistake. It will hardly work in the international market, unlike Twilight or Toy Story.
>>76919 New Moon made $296,619,304 in it's entire domestic run. Half of that ($142,839,137) was made in its opening weekend alone. It seems that people who are going to see the Twilight movies are going to see it the weekend it comes out. For a weekly breakdown of how rapidly the viewings burned out, see: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=newmoon.htm The big X-factor seems to be Knight & Day. Depending on if Cruise can bring a good show (because I don't think Diaz can), it could be a blowout success or just a blowout. This is what I'll be watching for to gauge Airbender's opportunity.
>>76932 Care to elaborate on your prediction as to how an adaptation of a popular show aimed at an audience of pretty much no age limit with a PG rating heavy on martial arts and CG about kids saving the world made by a major production studio released in the middle of summer under the name of a popular director will be a sinker?
>>76936 A) ATLA is not popular outside the US. Generic shonen anime is. Nick or CN really fail at overseas publicity. B) People outside the US think Shyamalan is a pedantic idiot. If they want to watch a boring melodramatic movie, they have their own pedantic idiot directors to film it themselves. >>audience of pretty much no age limit with a PG rating heavy on martial arts and CG about kids saving the world made by a major production studio released in the middle of summer under the name of a popular director I don't know for sure, but I don't think Robert Rodriguez Spy Kids movie did well on old Europe, for example.
>>76937 A) Avatar was Nickelodeon's highest rated show internationally; Germany, Indonesia, Columbia, Belgium, etc. http://web.archive.org/web/20080105074603/http://www.viacom.com/NEWS/NewsText.aspx?RID=1077954 B) With the exception of Signs and Lady in the Water, all of Shyamalan's films have had higher international grosses than domestic. Unless you've interviewed people from all over the world, I don't see your claim having credit other than your own personal generalizations. http://boxofficemojo.com/people/chart/?id=shyamalan.htm Also, Spy Kids was meant to be cheesy, stupid fun. That's what Rodriguez does. Airbender seems to be taking a more somber tone. I don't imagine many parents will dread seeing it with their kids.
>>76940 OK. Those are valid points. Still, competing with Twilight and Toy Story 3 may be a problem...
>>76940 >>76942 > Ninja making a valid point What alternate universe did I just enter?
>>76934 >New Moon made $296,619,304 in it's entire domestic run. Half of that ($142,839,137) was made in its opening weekend alone. It seems that people who are going to see the Twilight movies are going to see it the weekend it comes out. For a weekly breakdown of how rapidly the viewings burned out, see: http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekly&id=newmoon.htm Eclipse will probably earn more in its opening weekend than TLA will earn during it's entire theatrical run.
>>76961 $150 million is substantially below average for summer blockbusters...
>>76970 I'd be surprised if TLA makes over $100 million domestic. I consider the odds of it beating $140 million to be virtually nil. My guess is that it does about $35 million in its opening week, and makes about $70-80 million total domestic and if it does around the same internationally, that'll bring it up to around $150 million globally.
Good ol' orange and blue.
>>76971 $100 mil? That's even MORE substantially below average...
>>76976 Sure is. But do you think this movie really deserves success? I know you don't care about the racial issues in casting but seriously, does this look good?
>>76977 I'm assuming that the point he's making is that, regardless of how much or little the film "deserves," that's an unrealistically low estimate for how it'll actually do.
>>76978 I begrudgingly have to back Ninja on this one. TLA is Paramount's summer tentpole blockbuster, and their advertising team is pushing it hard. One can never accurately predict a movie's performance, but certain types usually conform to certain windows of revenue, and a fantasy live-action movie of this scale, with these sorts of trailers, aimed towards an action-orientated family demographic (a different demographic to Eclipse, crucially), at the very peak of the summer movie season is essentially doomed to make around $200 million minimum. It's an 'original property' in that it's not a franchise that's made it to the big screen before and comparatively new to audiences, which can bump its post-opening multiplier, and 3D ticket prices have tended to cushion the falls of weak openers and accentuate their 'legs'. So it will undoubtedly make less than Eclipse on its opening weekend, but will probably catch up in subsequent weekends. I'm almost certain it will make less than Eclipse overall, even with legs, but it's a cut-price blockbuster compared to other recent movies, so it won't need much revenue to turn a profit. I'm sorry, everyone, but I fear this film may be a financial success...
>>76982 You'd have a point, except all we've been talking about are Eclipse and Toy Story. There are a couple of other movies coming out in July 2010 that will be in direct competition with the action demographic that The Last Airbender is supposed to appeal to. Predators comes out 5 days after TLA. A week after that we get The Sorcerer's Apprentice, another action/fantasy movie. The A-Team and The Karate Kid are the previous month, so they might still conceivably be around and making money as well. Same thing with Jonah Hex. Then towards the start of August we have Scott Pilgrim. That's definitely going to do well if only because people seem to love Michael Cera for some reason. There's quite a bit of competition. TLA might do well, but it definitely could've used the installed base of the show's fandom that it's doing its damndest to alienate. There's definitely plenty of alternatives to it, no matter what demographic you're looking at. (Also, holy crap. They're making a Ramona and Beezus movie? Am I really going to have to nostalgia bomb twice in such a short period?)
>>76982 I still don't think it's going to be that successful. But that wasn't exactly the most reasonable or logical thing of me to say. Apologies.
>>76844 >>76881 >>76893 >Would you agree that, despite being heavily influenced by various cultures, shifting of these influences does not inherently separate the adaptation from the show in terms of themes, and if so, the noted changes to surface features have the potential to reveal the material we're familiar with in a different way? In terms of themes, it would not. But the film's changes to "surface features" have the same potential to reveal the material we're familiar with as a pair of dirty socks have to being clean. The themes of the show are basically just the same universal humanistic ideals found in so many other works of fiction: the power of love and friendship, the virtue in forgiveness, the choice of personal happiness over power and responsibility, the value of poorly spent life, good's triumph over evil. Of course in Avatar it is not "good" but rather "balance" as ethics have no place in an illusionary existence. It was the specific cultural variations found in the show that made it fresh. To me it always seemed like the story was just an excuse for the staff to explore this Asian fantasy world that they cooked up. The material revealed by the film would be done so differently they would be virtually unrecognizable. All things seen of the film so far generally supports this. For example, if I was to say Shyamalan seemed to be taking it in a more Christian direction I think you would agree. And though Christianity is a religion founded on principals of peace, love and understanding history and doctrine don't color it as a religion very tolerant of such beliefs as a connection between all things, animism or destiny/synchronicity. Take the word "gentile;" it doesn't, as commonly believed, just mean "non-Jewish." Gentile is a word meaning "Christian" and it's common meaning came from it's use to differentiate from Jews. Gentile is a cognate to "gentle" meaning noble and, like "kind," both "compassionate" and "akin." It is kind to be kind to those who are kind. Christianity's influence as a god-killer postulates a structure of separation. In Christianity all people of different faiths, no faith or even different sects of the same faith are bound for Hell in a handbasket. Shyamalan's changes to the world of Avatar are based on assertions that are what's called "not even wrong." The phrase "not even wrong" applies to statements that are generally well-formed but based on assumptions that are either known to be false or cannot be falsified. It implies that even a wrong argument would be better than the one proposed because at least then it would be relevant. He claims that Nicola Peltz "had a lot of Russian qualities, European and Russian qualities." The fact that he sees her as having "European and Russian qualities" cannot be falsified because it's his opinion. And because of his opinion the NWT as a whole now has "European and Russian qualities" though we know the Water Tribe was based on the Inuit people, not European Russians. Therefore it can be reasoned that the actors chosen were not the best suited for their roles as the roles were changed to suit the actors. The LotR films may have had their differences from the books but they didn't fundamentally change the cultural or physical landscape of Middle-Earth. While it's entirely possible for people of lighter skin tones to inhabit the same regions that the Water Tribe does the truth remains that, in neither this nor the Avatar world, they don't. And if Shyamalan is to be believed, casting for the Water Tribe had no reason to prefer Caucasians before Peltz's hiring as their only model for it's people were the dark-skinned, Inuit-based characters on the show. Still they got real Inuits to use as props. By your own admission light skin is far more prevalent in whites than people of color, would a preference for it then not constitute racial discrimination? "Not even wrong" is, funnily enough, closely related to the East Asian Buddhist concept of mu 無. The idea of a "crossroads of destiny," i.e. the sickness that accompanies it, can be taken as an active manifestation of mu. The question of "who am I?" is the wrong question. It also bears a striking resemblance to the ego-destroying shinbyeong, or "spirit sickness," in Korean shamanism; specifically the kind brought about by an external, psychological shock. When Zuko reaches his it's because the self he knows through his interactions with the world and his true inner nature come into conflict with each other and he's forced to realign his life's direction, his essence-function. Essence-Function 體用, another Buddhist concept unique to East Asia, together refers to the internal/external, hidden/manifest, fundamental/superficial aspects of any person, thing, or situation. The point of the usage of essence-function is not to indicate separation, but rather to indicate intrinsic unity between two things, or two aspects, which might, from an unenlightened point of view be seen as distinctly separated, or of unclear relationship. Anyway I'm quite curious to see how Shyamalan would handle the crossroads of destiny as it's an essential part of Zuko's development and all I've seen so far suggests he's completely ignorant of the philosophy behind it. Funny that an Indian man would call an avatar "The Chosen One." Ninja, my previous post stating my agreement with you was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Your reasoning, while well formed, is only technically correct and betrays all logic or any semblance to common sense. I was meaning to suggest that though the anti-casters may be "wrong" to assume the people of the Avatar world are Asian, the film's production is even more so in assuming they're Caucasian and their decisions could only be an honest interpretation of the Avatarverse if it did indeed possess perception distorting properties. I'm of the opinion that, though Guru Pathik's inclusion in the series and strongly contrasting looks is just about enough, the characters' race was never explicitly stated in the show not only because it would be inappropriate from a storytelling viewpoint but also because it was a given. While there's a vast collection of cultural and "physical" evidence in favor of them being Asian, including the shape of Gyatso's skull, the only evidence that they're not is delusion. One must be suspicious of the motives behind taking a "fantastical Asian environment" and intending to fill it with heroes who are "Caucasian or any other ethnicity," a rather transparent legal formality, and extras that are of specific Asian backgrounds then changing each fictional culture to reflect the ethnicities of the casted heroes. Why fix what ain't broke? Anyway, I don't believe your hypothesis of what they really meant is correct but even if it was it doesn't alter the fact that they did cite a preference for Caucasians for the lead roles. Marshall's deniability is plausible but not likely. I have no confidence that the films will come any closer to exploring the cultural themes of the show than these unintentional demonstrations of the concept of mu: their being not even wrong, wronger than wrong and, if their claims that the discrimination was unintentional are to be believed, dissonance of essence-function. All their excuses are meaningless. >My point is that what defines someone's race is entirely up to who is talking. It's a completely fictional and scientifically retarded idea that the human species is separated on some fundamental level due to phenotypes and geography. Your point is dull. I don't care about your personal views on what race is, in this context it is irrelevant. Given mankind's current understanding of what is and is not "scientifically retarded" I'd have to say the notion that there is no correlation between the distribution of different physical traits in ethnic groups and geography would be something that is. People from different places tend to look different. There's a village in Spain in which all the inhabitants have six toes on one foot. Whether the beliefs regarding race and ability as a product of inherited traits are biologically warranted is an ongoing debate within the scientific community and one that has very little to do with this specific issue. The relation of physiognomy and geography, however, is scientifically valid and the basis of such legitimate fields of study as cultural geography and environmental possiblism. If it wasn't there'd be no use of forensic anthropology. Whether you believe in nature or nurture, geography plays a key role in the development of human cultures. However, race in the context of this controversy is of a primarily social nature; we cannot analyze an actor's genetic lineage through a cinema screen. The definition of race does vary among cultures and times but The Last Airbender is an American film made in the year 2010. Contemporary American views on race are quite clear. Underpinning a belief in race are ideas not only about the importance of phenotypal differences, but also, increasingly, about the importance of cultural differences. The connection of race and ethnicity to culture, while seemingly counter-intuitive, effectively illuminates the complexity and multifaceted nature of the interactions of individuals and groups and does so by taking account not only of the social, political and economic dimensions, but also of the psychological dimension. Your argument is cute but has no practical applications here. Ignoring adaptation's effects on phenotypal mutations doesn't guarantee the equal treatment of all peoples, it just makes discrimination harder to prove. According to the popular scientific racism of the nineteenth century genetic disorders were hypothesized to be evolutionary regressions to what was viewed as the less advanced, non-white forms of humanity: atavism. This study was spearheaded by John Langdon Down with his paper "Observations on the Ethnic Classifications of Idiots" the first to describe the eponymous Down syndrome, hence its alternative name "mongolism." Like you, Dr. Down was color blind: his ethnic classification of idiots led him to maintain that if a mentally defective member of a white race could show the racial features of a non-white race, it proved that racial differences were non-specific. Anyway whether race is just a "retarded fiction" or a categorization of people by an observable set of heritable characteristics, the truth remains that it exists, quite literally, as plain as the nose on your face. Also, I've never heard of any reason to believe that Genghis Khan's mother's clan was Chinese or his father's being mixed with Serbs and Turks. Admittedly, I never did much research on him. Are you sure you or your source weren't confusing Turks with Turkic peoples or by the fact that his mother's clan inhabits what is now the Inner Mongolia autonomous region of China? Did you check if the source had a political agenda, maybe white-supremacist or even Pan-Turkist? I've heard similar claims from those types like Confucius being a white man or all Chinese inventions being created by the "Aryans" or Tocharians. Those white-supremacists; if they can't discount a non-white's accomplishments they always try to misappropriate them. >>76863 In Cantonese 粥 is pronounced with more of a /ts/ or /z/ at the beginning which is a sound that doesn't exist in Korean but that's close enough, I suppose. But it didn't seem as likely to me for the staff to have been exposed to the Cantonese pronunciation as Korean, damn sure not the Middle Chinese, I'd already mentioned that Korean's lexicon is almost completely derived from Chinese, my stating that Cantonese being an older dialect than Mandarin was an allusion to it's evolution from Middle Chinese and I'm not sure but I think Southern Chinese more commonly refer to congee as mei 糜 so I hope you'll forgive me if I fail to see your point in bringing it up. I do not wish any dispute with you but I can tell you that neither of us is wrong about the dragons. I'm well aware of that ridiculous law; seeing all that I've written did you really think that I wouldn't be? Counting of the toes is just a rule of thumb. There are exceptions to every rule. It's generally held that Chinese dragons have five toes because five-toed dragons, being symbolic of the Chinese emperor, are scarcely found anywhere else. Because of the emperor's sense of entitlement China's neighbors were also subject to the law forbidding the use of the five-toed dragon. Due to the emperor's association with the five-toed dragon, and no less than that, and his residence in China four-toed dragons are far more prolific in Korea. Though the national emblem of Joseon features a five-toed dragon and there are some in Korea with up to nine toes Korean dragons, due to the belief in imugi, never have less than four toes as they need them to hold onto their yeouiju and I've yet to see a Japanese dragon with more than three. Please remind me, what Fire Nation characters other than Azula and her grandfather had names with more than two syllables? Two syllables is generally the norm in East Asia; Japanese names tend to be the only ones with more. Sharkman, Zhao is one of the most common names in China and was the name of one of the Warring States in that period. Sorry to take the discussion back in this direction but it'd be rude not to respond to comments made directly towards me.
You know what I hate of Shyamalan? How he repeats stuff as if he was trying to convince himself more than he is trying to convince his listeners. He tries too hard.
>>76992 Dude. You've blinded me. With SCIENCE!
>>76992 I tried to read this post on my BlackBerry and got extremely lost, whoadamn
Just got back from Iron Man 2. I noticed that trailers for Twlight: Eclipse and Toy Story 3 were both aired. The former was met with cheers from the female half of the audience of 600+, booing from the male half, and then cheering from half the males once the action sequences started. The applause for Toy Story 3's trailer was deafening and unanimous. What's The Last Airbender's theatrical trailer attached to? Can someone tell me what the responses to it were for their theater?
>>77014 TLA's trailer was attached to the midnight showing I just went to. Outside of some jokes about it being Spongebob or just wondering wtf it was at the beginning, it was almost completely silent. Just one single clap afterward (well, and my bitching to my friend). All the other trailers had some kind of fun response during and/or after.
>>76992 I'm of Southern Chinese origin myself (the epithet that is my current pseudonym is NOT directed to you!), and I know that porridge is 粥 in Cantonese and Hakka, with variant pronunciations among the dialects thereof. The preferred Mandarin term (in Taiwan at least) is 稀飯. The Middle Chinese term you referred is preserved in Hokkien, but I've never heard it used myself. Maybe it's not used in Taiwan? Come on, you should know what I mean when I distinguish between polysyllabic and monosyllabic. It's on-yomi vs. kun-yomi. For example, 水 would be "shui3" in Mandarin Chinese, but the native Japanese pronunciation is "mizu"! I speak of grapheme correspondence -whether the grapheme is a Chinese character, a Hangul cluster, or a word in the Latin alphabet. (I know Hanyu Pinyin broke with this rule, but bear with me.) Pu On Tim, Zhao, Lu Ten, and Ty Lee are examples of monosyllabic EXCEPTIONS to the general trend of polysyllaby in FN names. (The latter two, rendered polysyllabically, would be Luten and Tylee.) Likewise Suki, Kyoshi, Omashu, Unagi, and Bumi in the EK. (Likewise Su Ki, Kyo Shi...) (Yes, I'm also aware of the way the show treats Chinese characters. With names, they're transliterations, so each syllable gets a character... and sometimes new "syllables" are generated, either out of necessity or just... somehow. See "Anaang" 安 and "Tophu" 芙.) But when we take the names as they're depicted on the show, with Latin letters... the difference is pretty clear. On the dragon issue... Japan and Korea were tributary nations to China for a LONG time. Surely they would respect the Huangdi's "silly laws" with regards to draconian digitipedic depictions! Aargh, too much fanwank. But I gotta admire your knowledge of E. Asian culture! Did you study it, or did you grow up in it?
>>76992 Once again, I ask you to consider making a blog about this stuff. Or at least a livejournal. Your posts are very educational.
Kyoshi Warriors 0:15
>>77032 I like how they don't even show the Eartbenders bending in the beginning when they show everyone else. Oh wait, no I don't.
>>77032 Ah, very neat -- it's good to finally see them for once. And when Aang opens his glider, is dat sum smile? Oh and a French poster. Dat boomerang.
>>77032 Looking swe--wait, they couldn't be bothered to put makeup on them either?
What the heck is he holding? Is it supposed to be a boomerang? Because it would be absolutely useless for that purpose. You could probably throw it but it wouldn't come back.
>>77035 I think it might be a texturing effect they put in to make it look more gritty. Because there's no way a girl Peltz's age would have pores THAT big.
Only "toy" boomerangs return to the thrower, and then only sort of . That one Sokka's holding is more like a real hunting boomerang. Like this aboriginal one.
>>77038 >> Because there's no way a girl Peltz's age would have pores THAT big. Unless she was a smoker and recreational drug user. Not like I'm saying Peltz is one but you never now with these Hollywood girls.
>>77060 But Sokka's DOES come back!
Shit I don't know what I was even thinking with that post #
>>77043 Yeah, but I think they wanted to be more authentic to the inuit culture that Sokka and Katara... Oh, wait...
http://www.newsarama.com/film/shaun-toub-airbender-100507.html Newsarama.com has an interview with Shaun Toub who admits that he's never actually seen the show. Also, movieIroh is the one of the few firebenders who can generate his own fire without and external source. ...yeah.
>>Also, movieIroh is the one of the few firebenders who can generate his own fire without and external source. See, despite alot of the problems I have with this movie, that's still one of the things that's never really bothered me. In a way, it just makes movie Iroh that much more badass. Also, from what I've heard, Zuko can do it at the end of the movie. So it's just one of those things that makes a very distinct separation of just how much stronger the royal family is from regular fire benders.
>>77055 But it's still stupid. It completely negates all the talks later on about Firebending being as much a part of nature as bending any of the other elements. From Jeong Jeong explaining that the sun is the greatest source of fire, yet is in perfect balance with nature, to the teachings of the Sun Warriors later on. The movie is making it seem like all Firebending is unnatural and out of harmony, not just the ragebending style seen in the show. That really bugs me. It's stupid, impractical, and there was no need for the change, just like the rest of the changes they've made. It's a joke to think the Fire Nation got as powerful as they did if their Firebending abilities are that weak.
>>77057 it's a joke to imagine that the fire nation got as strong as they did with the power levels in the show. not to mention most characters also had their power levels tied to how much screen time they got. this show should have had "abandon all logic ye who enter here" in the title. just try to enjoy the story, bro.
>>77059 As much as I've seen you criticize it, was there anything you liked about the show, boring-anon? And if not, why do you even post here?
>>77060 he masterbates to nameless soldiers
Peter Jackson to LOTR cast: OK guys if any of you haven't read the books, grab a copy, read it and study your character. Tolkien made this enthralling book and we've gotta homage his work the best we can. Shyamalan to TLA cast: Don't watch the anime cartoon show, it's ambiguous and that's completely its point, I'll tell you what to do instead because IT'S MY MOVIE and I wrote it you know? Making shit up to fill in it's not an agenda for me, but it's something I'm super proud of.
>>77059 They got as strong as they did because they had technological advancement. They had technological advancement because any given firebender is a one man forge and steam engine. That means they can basically make tons of ships in relatively short order compared to the other nations. Their bending soldiers are infantry, fuel sources for their tech, and walking flamethrowers. And for that matter, the reason they got as strong as they did with the power levels in the show was PRECISELY BECAUSE they could make fire anywhere and everywhere. Notice the first guys they went after were the Air Nomads, the only other bending style that couldn't be separated from their element in some way.
>>77078 You know, actually it's one of the things that was a pet peeve for me, too, but I had another reason for it. For the longest time, I had the idea that in addition to the individual nature of the elements, and the idea of opposing elements, that there were also "sibling" elements. Fire and Air were the elements that came from within, that were generated by the bender. It was all around them and within them. Earth and Water were the elements that formed the world, external from the bender, and it was theirs to shape and use. Quick and easy way to think of it would be to just arrange them in a square and make sure the opposing elements are diagonally across from each other, since that would guarantee that the two similar elements are next to each other.
>>77077 And even LotR wasn't a perfect adaptation, with everyone giving it their all to make it work. So how's Half-ass McTwisty gonna make a faithful movie when he doesn't even acknowledge the source?
>>77077 >Toub: Early on with I spoke to M. Night, we decided that it would be best for me not to watch the animated series but instead focus on what was in the movie’s script because it was much darker. Although we want to pay homage to the original animated series, when you make a movie it’s very different than a cartoon. I’ve done animated series and even video games, but when doing a live-action movie the human aspect doesn’t work the same, and neither does the dialogue. It was pretty interesting to come up with the look and tone of my character, which is very different from Uncle Iroh in the animated series. Although the movie he doesn’t look the same as he did in the television series, he has the same energy and philosophy. Remakes by fanboys are alright, but having someone like Shyamalan run as far as he can go with it seems like it could be really interesting. Or, you know, stupid. But whatever.
>>77051 My browser isn't opening this page right or something, it seems like half the interview is missing. Can someone post the passage where he says he hasn't watched the show?
>>77081 Has there ever been an adaptation that strove to be as faithful as possible to its source material and still failed? Because obviously not giving a shit rarely works. One only need to look at...well, at most adaptations of cartoons, video games, and comic books, to know that much.
>>77089 >Early on with I spoke to M. Night, we decided that it would be best for me not to watch the animated series but instead focus on what was in the movie’s script because it was much darker. So...yeah. He doesn't say he's never seen it, but that he and Shyamalan agreed it would be best if he not watch it. (Curtis was the one that said he never watched it at all if memory serves). I can get wanting your script to be what they use, I really can. But to say "Don't watch what this is based on?" What if it helps give the actor a deeper understanding of the character? I mean, whenever we hear about good adaptations its because the cast or director are huge fanboys. Look at Iron Man. Favreau is such a geek that he knocked both movies out of the park, and had that role in Daredevil. He's quickly becoming Marvel Studio's go-to guy. Look at Dark Knight. Everyone was terrified of Ledger ruining the Joker, but he locked himself in a room with a stack of comics for a month, came out, and a huge majority of fans found their opinions shifting. Having the source as a reference tool can't hurt. It can only help.
>>77090 http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=watchmen.htm
>>77094 Funny you mention that. Watchmen and Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer had the exact same budget, but FF: RotSS made roughly 100 million more dollars. Isn't *that* depressing? However, the admonition isn't totally on center. Watchmen did a lot of things that actually pretty bold box office-wise. It had a very long runtime, didn't have one set star/protagonist, it didn't have any "name" superheros and went in with an R rating. That said, one if it's main criticisms was that they kind of used the comic as a storyboard, but not in a good way. And personally, the changes to the end, (not just ditching the squid) totally changed the entire end message and feel of the conclusion, almost to the point that it invalidated the entire message of the original. It's one thing to make a movie that's faithful or at least paying homage to the original source, and another to restrain yourself to it. If Airbender basically used the exact same dialogue, storyboarding, cinematography and the like as the show, it probablly wouldn't have been a very exciting movie, since a direct translation would have lost things that work better in animation, or even just work better the first time around. At the same time, everything being changed except for a few basic plot points and designs (and in some cases, not even the designs) doesn't sound all that great if I'm supposed to believe it's an adaptation.
>>77088 >Toub: Early on with I spoke to M. Night, we decided that it would be best for me not to watch the animated series but instead focus on what was in the movie’s script because it was much darker. M. Night doesn't want people to watch the original show and see what a mess was made of the culture and that it had it's fun, quirky moments too, as opposed to Mr. SRS BSNS Director making things all Darker and Edgier™. >>77105 >If Airbender basically used the exact same dialogue, storyboarding, cinematography and the like as the show, it probablly wouldn't have been a very exciting movie Not necessarily. It would be impossible to make it a carbon copy. One, live action is a different visual medium, something I was looking forward to seeing til the casting was announced. And two, there's no way they could have squeezed every single episode of the first season into a two hour film, so there would have been changes made anyway. Which reminds me, where is that M. Night who seemed so devoted to the series that he had a huge script packed full of things he just couldn't bear to cut? The one who was acting all buddy-buddy with Mike and Bryan before this fiasco? Was that all just an act or did he just decide Paramount's hack and slash, mix and match approach was best somewhere down the line?
You know what amuses me? Shyamalan basically wants Avatar to be his Star Wars. But his changes to Iroh actually made the character LESS like Yoda.
>>77105 It is painfully depressing, but you bring up a point that might make or break this entire discussion: is The Last Airbender more of an adaptation or a reinterpretation?
What I don't understand is this obsession with Live Action like it was a better thing. I mean, whose idea was that? That it makes sense to butcher a franchise, new or old, into a soylent green movie (made with people) and crossing fingers. It doesn't take a genius to realize it makes no sense. It's like with anime. It's hard to keep track of how many movies they make of any franchise they have, all of them profitable enough to guarantee more and more sequels. Saint Seiya has 5 movies and over 13 OVAs, Dragon Ball has around 17 animation movies with everyone rejecting the live action one, Naruto has its own 11 adaptations both in film and OVA formats, even children shows like Doraemon and Pokémon prove to be succesful as animated movies (30 and 13 respectively). What would it be to have 3, 5, or 15 Avatar animation movies? A trilogy entirely devoted to Combustion Man, a movie covering Aang's escape from the spirit world, an Iroh prequel? All in PPV and direct-to-DVD. How is this live action movie better and more profitable than that?
>>77060 the avatar and the firelord. the storm (and to a slightly lesser degree the entire pre finale season 1). Combustion man. Ozai. Kuei. badgermoles. nameless soldiers (particularlee Dai Lee and fire nation). so basically everything that didn't have anything to do with the Gaang, Ozai's angels or the old masters.
>>77108 Both of those terms seem a little overly charitable. But at this point considering it an adaptation is obviously not going to work. A bastardization, perhaps. A reinterpretation...we'll see. But the latter lends it credence that Shyamalan, as a screenwriter, hasn't displayed yet.
>>77057 WUT
>>77111 Who the hell is Kuei? I did a google search and turned up some info about a poltergeist of some sort and a Vampire Clan from the White Wolf RPGs. Hell I even went to Avatar Spirit.net and didn't turn up anything.
>>77145 Kuei is the Earth King's real name.
>>77110 I don't know, maybe something to do with Americans not being able to take cartoons seriously, or The Powers That Be thinking they can't, so they cram it into live action instead. 3-5 movies would be fine, 15, no. Mike and Bryan had the right idea when they said they wanted the show to have a clear beginning and end, not go on for ages and be subject to the decay that seems to befall most long-running series. The Simpsons, for example. >>77111 >basically everything that didn't have anything to do with the Gaang, Ozai's angels or the old masters That doesn't make any sense. It's like watching a movie for the extras or ordering a sandwich and eating only the crusts. I don't think you have room to complain about the show if you're not even really watching the show itself. >>77113 Problem?
>>77147 >That doesn't make any sense. It's like watching a movie for the extras or ordering a sandwich and eating only the crusts. I don't think you have room to complain about the show if you're not even really watching the show itself. just because you watched the show for the DURR HURR characters and not the beautiful imaginary world the writers had them rampaging through doesn't mean that I can't enjoy the, in my opinion, better parts of the cartoon.
>>77154 I for one, respect your opinion to like the universe but not the characters. But let's be realistic here. Major details take priority, and if they're fucked, then the minor are going to be as well. If the movie can't even get Aang right, what hope does Kuei have?
>>77154 I know several people who care more about the setting, the martial arts, and the animation than they do the characters. My friend actually managed to find more than 20 RPers who wanted to play in Mike and Bryan's world but didn't like any of the canon characters. They've been RPing on a private board with nothing but OCs since the middle of Book 2.
>>77156 >But let's be realistic here. Major details take priority, and if they're fucked, then the minor are going to be as well. If the movie can't even get Aang right, what hope does Kuei have? for now it seems that Zhao hasn't changed much and except the lack of fire bending and make up all secondary characters are really close to the cartoon so I for one have my hope up. >>77159 >I know several people who care more about the setting, the martial arts, and the animation than they do the characters. My friend actually managed to find more than 20 RPers who wanted to play in Mike and Bryan's world but didn't like any of the canon characters. They've been RPing on a private board with nothing but OCs since the middle of Book 2. I know I'm not alone in my opinions. it's only here that I get the "how can you not love super strong dirt girl" and "damn anon, you so boring" reactions.
>>77156 I think you are mistaking minor details for major ones.
>>77168 Take a moment to review >>76410 >Straight from the start Aang is very quiet and reserved. He obviously wants to go back to the air temple and once he goes to the temple he is happy and excited to be back home. However, once he finds out his people are killed he becomes very depressed and serious. There aren't many giddy moments with Aang, except with flashbacks and when he is at the air temple. He is mostly consumed by wanting to fight the fire nation and has a hard time grieving for the death of his people. >He is mostly consumed by wanting to fight the fire nation and has a hard time grieving for the death of his people. >He is mostly consumed by wanting to fight the fire nation--- And that's just Aang.
>>77171 Cartoon Aang wanted to fight the Fire Nation to bring peace and end the war while having difficulty coping with the loss of his people as well.
>>77173 Yes, but he wasn't "consumed" by that notion. Still, let's say that's just the reviewer's wording, it still says he's quiet and reserved, only happy when he revisits the temple or in flashbacks. That *is* a major change, one Shyamalan also makes note of with his constant talk of grounding characters and making it darker. Whether or not it's actually any good, or whether or not you decide that's a good thing, it is still a major change, so I don't think the previous post was "confusing" major versus minor.
>>77178 Aang doesn't have to go chasing after ever animal he sees or try to befriend people who come after him with knives to still be Aang, and being "quiet and reserved" doesn't mean he isn't friendly or conscious of others.
>>77181 But he did chase after a lot of animals, and he did on occasion try to make friends with people who were trying to kill him and/or each other, typically by not being quiet and reserved. Ringer's character is apparently quiet and reserved, Aang's character was not, thus it's a major change between the two. I haven't explicitly said it's a good change or bad change (even if I think it's a bad change) but it's still a big change.
The first...I'm gonna say, 4 episodes of the series, are a pretty good showcasing of Aang's lighter side. His first words are essentially "Want to go play?". Whenever they go somewhere, he's typically goofing off, or joking around. Hell, they devote most of the 4th episode just to him being a showboating kid going "look what I can do!" to the Kyoshi Islanders. Especially since, and this is important, he doesn't even really want to BE the Avatar for a good portion of book 1. He's intentionally avoiding doing his duties. That's the reason he got frozen in the first place, remember? Because he ran away. We don't even really find this out until episode 12 of 20. That's over halfway through book one. AFTER that point he starts focusing more in earnest, but not before. But hey, I'm guessing you'll say that's not important. Just like Iroh being more grounded and losing his sense of lightheartedness doesn't matter either, right? Really, it's cool if you want the movie to be grimmer or darker, but could you at least admit that it IS a significant change?
>>77192 >>77182 I'm not so sure, to be honest, but I am leaning towards them not being radical changes. You can easily remove the childish banter and catch phrases/recurring jokes and still have the same characters. Aang is a child chosen by powers beyond himself to change the world. Iroh is a wise, powerful aging man with an immense history and great love for all. I'm not sure where playfulness is requisite for those qualities. All we've seen so far are surface changes; whether they remain faithful to the soul of the characters can only really be answered after the movie is out. I think Aang being more angsty has some serious potential to show him with less developed emotional struggle as an actual child rather than dodging the issue like they did in the show. Similarly, portraying Iroh without being easily assumed dumb and fat seems like ripe grounds for a much more brutal betrayal by Zuko because he would have even less reason to disregard and even turn on him.
>>77194
>>77194 >I'm not so sure, to be honest, but I am leaning towards them not being radical changes. You can easily remove the childish banter and catch phrases/recurring jokes and still have the same characters. Aang is a child chosen by powers beyond himself to change the world. Iroh is a wise, powerful aging man with an immense history and great love for all. I'm not sure where playfulness is requisite for those qualities. All we've seen so far are surface changes; whether they remain faithful to the soul of the characters can only really be answered after the movie is out. For this argument to work we first have to agree that their humor and playfulness isn't a part of their soul. We first have to agree on the characterizations, and I'm willing to bet I'm not the only one that disagrees with your assessments of Aang and Iroh. I saw Aang as a character torn between the responsibility of adulthood and the desire to simply have fun as a kid. I don't see it as dodging the issue. Rather, having him constantly angst about his responsibilities is itself a less developed struggle, because it's just one facet of coping with his duties. There's just complaining. No avoidance or denial. Similarly, I would argue that Iroh's obfuscating stupidity to the point borderline senility is a reflection on his overall cunning. It was an ability to hide in plain sight. This was the guy that can casually sip a cup of tea that turns out to be a guiling tactic in order to get within range to blow a stream of fire from his mouth. This is the man who lulled his prison guards into a false sense of security while he went about an extreme fitness regimen in preparation to singlehandedly escape from his cell like a "one man army". As I've said before, if he seems like more of a credible force, stuff like that won't work. I'd argue that at least half of Iroh's defining character moments are a result of such tactics. But you'd say they're not important. You know Ninja I'm starting to detect a pattern. First you outright deny a change is made, then you downplay the change and say that it's not that big a deal when we prove that the change exists. So to that I say, it might not be a big deal to you, but obviously to a lot of the fandom it is. It sounds like you've made up your mind already. Or at the very least, you're purposefully discounting facets of their characters you don't like to presume that the movie will be better for removing them. But...You can't have it both ways. Either removing the humor from the characters changes them drastically enough for it to have serious potential, or it does not, and cannot. You can't say the changes aren't major and then argue that they might have major repercussions that could be an improvement.
>>77194 It's a pivotal part of Aang's character that whenever he runs into something that threatens emotional turmoil, his instinctive reaction is to avoid it. It's part of his 'flightiness', one of the things that marks his character as an airbender, and in many ways a compelling source of conflict in itself. Watch the 'Western Air Temple' for example, when after the Day of Black Sun invasion fails he does his absolute level best to ignore the gravity of the situation and run off to play. The rest of the Gaang know that this is aberrant and unhelpful behaviour, and it's only when matters intervene to bring reality crashing down on him that he 'returns to earth'. Rather than ignore this carefree part of Aang's character and turn him into a dour, srzsbzns lump of decisiveness, a more fascinating route could have been to explore this facet in more detail. Because as much as Aang's behaviour feeds a lot of fun and laughs early on, there's a deep well of tragedy at the bottom of it that Shyamalan's creative decisions have completely bricked over. It just makes Aang less interesting. And I like the little guy.
>>77154 I can enjoy the beautiful imaginary world and the interesting, complex characters that inhabited it too. Surprise! >>77161 No one's making you bow down and worship the Almighty "Toph God", but it gets annoying when you bitch about the Gaang being overpowered and other fanwank. That's the show. The show is primarily about the characters. If you have a problem with that, you're free to watch something else. Or you could splice together videos about the fascinating lives of the extras and create your own parallel universe of the show. That actually might be interesting, since yes, there were cool minor characters in this series. It just doesn't make any sense to me to totally hate on/ignore all the main ones, but if that's what floats your boat, go for it. >>77194 OH U. Come on, quit fooling yourself. Aang's very nature is that of a happy-go-lucky, fun-loving kid. His weakness is that it makes him run away from his problems, hence being frozen, like Shark said. Or ignoring the fact that he needed a Firebending teacher after the invasion failed. He was described as a "trickster hero" in the IP bible, IIRC. Nearly every official piece of artwork or merchandise of Aang from the show features him smiling or having fun. That's probably why a lot of people snubbed the series, thinking it was just some dumb wacky kiddie show. Making Aang all SRS BSNS takes away a lot of his personality. It downplays his struggle to grow up, mature, and accept his duty as the Avatar. You could say something similar about Iroh's character. No one suspects he's still a badass because for the most part we see him being a laid back, funny, self-indulgent old man. He plays dumb when he's in prison so the guards won't know he's getting all buffed up to bust himself out of there. No one would be fooled by movie!Iroh doing the same thing. He loses a lot of his sweetness and charm by being SRS BSNS all the time. Don't even get me started on Sokka. It's just clear that M. Night hates fun and has no idea how to write characters that are whimsical or comedic. Edit: And it looks like the people above me covered that too, but the point remains the same.
>>77205 >I can enjoy the beautiful imaginary world and the interesting, complex characters that inhabited it too. Surprise! you still put one before the other. some of us have it the other way around. >No one's making you bow down and worship the Almighty "Toph God", but it gets annoying when you bitch about the Gaang being overpowered and other fanwank. That's the show. The show is primarily about the characters. If you have a problem with that, you're free to watch something else. Or you could splice together videos about the fascinating lives of the extras and create your own parallel universe of the show. That actually might be interesting, since yes, there were cool minor characters in this series. It just doesn't make any sense to me to totally hate on/ignore all the main ones, but if that's what floats your boat, go for it. well, if people can bitch about Toph not being enough in season 3 I can bitch about why was she there at all.
>>77204 >It's a pivotal part of Aang's character that whenever he runs into something that threatens emotional turmoil, his instinctive reaction is to avoid it. That may still be the case. I'm not arguing against his avoidance or redirected doubt, I'm arguing if giddiness and cutesy behavior are necessary to show Aang as the same indecisive and unsure child, or if dropping tomes and food and/or tea related distractions are necessary to portray Iroh as someone who was the best at what he did before he realized his way of life lead to the death of his son and countless others for insignificant reasons and spends the later parts of his life trying to touch the lives of everyone he can while being disregarded as a wiry old man. Also, where does it say movie Aang is decisive? Serious, reserved, quiet, etc. doesn't mean he makes decisions easily.
>>77208 >That may still be the case. I'm not arguing against his avoidance or redirected doubt, I'm arguing if giddiness and cutesy behavior are necessary to show Aang as the same indecisive and unsure child, Childish behavior is necessary to show that he's a child. Kids want to play rather than do what they're supposed to. Anyone that's spent more than ten minute around a twelve year old should know that. >or if dropping tomes and food and/or tea related distractions are necessary to portray Iroh as someone who was the best at what he did before he realized his way of life lead to the death of his son and countless others for insignificant reasons and spends the later parts of his life trying to touch the lives of everyone he can while being disregarded as a wiry old man. You're missing two important points. The first being that Iroh isn't just disregarded as an old man. He INTENTIONALLY plays the role of the buffoon in order to encourage that sort of misconception. I've used the term "obfuscating stupidity" more than once in describing him. I guarantee you, it's an apt description of his behavior. The second point ties into the first. The audience is supposed to be just as surprised as characters are in universe. If Iroh looks and acts like he WAS a cunning strategist and warrior at all times, then doesn't it call into question the logic of people ignoring him? Just saying this hypothetically, but if Iroh were less goofy, that would make Zuko look like an even bigger douche for not listening to him. As it stands, the audience should kind of see that Zuko didn't realize the depth of Iroh's mannerisms, specifically BECAUSE they were hidden under food and tea related distractions. Iroh not being lighthearted makes him really obvious. That obviousness is due in large part to a lack of depth.
Oh hey imagedump, thanks to rufftoon's lj.
>>77214 I just can't look at this guy without thinking of The Daily Show and laughing. He's got his work cut out for him.
>>77212 Seems to be the Air Temple or some sort of temple to the Avatars. The one Ringer's facing has Roku's hairdo. It could possibly be in the Fire Nation, going by that insignia, but it could have the other three in other places. >>77213 Lookin' kinda makeup-less there. Oddly enough, the Kyoshi Warriors had the red makeup on the *upper* side of their eyes, not like these things here, this kinda reminds me of eye black that football players wear. I guess if it serves a similar function, it might make sense, but I think red would just reflect light. From a distance, it looks like they have really droopy eyes...or infections. >>77214 Fish-puncher time! >>77215 >>77216 >>77217 >>77218 Eh, background shots. Though the CGI kinda sticks out on those ships, though. A same with the ice structures, though not quite as much. >>77219 Scary looking, but it also kinda reminds me of the Green Goblin's mask from the first Spider-Man movie. >>77220 "Close your mouth," maybe? >>77221 Okay, something I have to comment on by now. Did *nobody* in the movie's version of the Fire Nation even get so much as a wig? Dev Patel's running around with his normal 'do, as are Mandvi and Curtis. It's like all they did was not get a haircut, there isn't a top knot/phoenix tail or anything in sight. I'm beginning to think that either "Ee-roh" there is the only one who decided to make a fashion statement of a sort, or Shaun Toub *already had* the dreadlocks, and he just showed up to work.
>>77224 I've been noticing the hair, too. It looks like they went with using the actual actors' hair to go more organic; believable? inb4 "nuh uh it's cause they're lazy and incompetent"
>>77226 Hollywood can make *hair* believable, come on. They styled up Peltz's hair, shaved part of Rathbone's head, they let Ringer keep shaving his head, and despite my joke, Shaun Toub is mostly bald, so they probably added the dreads, and those don't look totally fake. But why are the other three named Fire Nation characters just running around with their normal day-to-day hair?
>>77228 Cliff Curtis doesn't have curly hair and, the image is blurry and fuzzy, but it appears that Mandvi has some kind of faux hawk going on. I'm sure those decisions were made for a reason. >>77219 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUAWESOME
>>77231 >Cliff Curtis doesn't have curly hair Actually I might be mistaken about that. I've seen him in a lot of movies with short hair that isn't curly, but this appears to be a photo of him not in makeup. There's even one of him with what seems to be an afro. Point: he might actually have curly hair, but the photos of him as Ozai are still stylized.
>>77232 You're mistaken, he has curly hair. Also, Mandvi almost always has a sort of faux-hawk. Stylized? It looks *combed.* The only thing they seem to have are *sideburns.*
>>77226 Kevin Spacey is really bald. Scarlett Johansson is really a redhead. Halle Berry's really got white hair. Because clearly, Hollywood loves going with an organic look for their characters whenever possible. (....Actually with a name like Scarlett you'd kind of think she would really be a redhead, wouldn't you?)
>>77239 Lex Luthor, Romanoff, and Storm aren't characters really open to interpretation in terms of hair style. Their hair styles were direct indicators of aspects of their personality whereas the characters from Avatar whose hair styles were changed really only served to speak of age and/or ranks, which can easily be displayed otherwise. Also, significant changes to actor hairstyles (such as shaving Spacey's head or putting wigs on Johansson and Berry) usually don't look realistic even with specialized high quality artists on set.
>>77240 You're wrong. Here's a couple reasons why. >Lex Luthor, Romanoff, and Storm aren't characters really open to interpretation in terms of hair style. Except for when Lex Luthor has hair. He originally did, you know? Or how about in the Lois and Clark series? He had hair there, no one complained. And it's not like said characters are even consistent. Is Storm's hair long or short? Sometimes, it's a mohawk. Is Natasha's hair curly or straight? Doesn't really matter. >Their hair styles were direct indicators of aspects of their personality How so? The only character I listed there that might have applied to at some point in their publication history is the aformentioned mohawk Storm, who got the look primarily to ditch her "team mom" image. >whereas the characters from Avatar whose hair styles were changed really only served to speak of age and/or ranks, which can easily be displayed otherwise. So that scene at the end of season one where Zuko and Iroh cut off their top knots has no significance at all? Or do you just not understand their cultural significance. And for that matter, let's say you're right. How are they being showed? You say they CAN, but you're not saying how they ARE. >Also, significant changes to actor hairstyles (such as shaving Spacey's head or putting wigs on Johansson and Berry) usually don't look realistic even with specialized high quality artists on set. Your ignorance is showing. Johannson and Berry didn't wear wigs at all.
>>77241 >He had hair there, no one complained. And it's not like said characters are even consistent. Is Storm's hair long or short? Sometimes, it's a mohawk. Is Natasha's hair curly or straight? Doesn't really matter. I was referring primarily to hair color. >So that scene at the end of season one where Zuko and Iroh cut off their top knots has no significance at all? Or do you just not understand their cultural significance. They cut off their hair as an act of accepting self-exile for abandoning their quest for the Avatar. To me, that part served more for showing Iroh's solidarity towards Zuko than of anything else. They were already exiles and knew even before they were exiled that finding the Avatar was essentially a death sentence. There are infinite ways to show this that don't involve severing royal locks. >How are they being showed? You say they CAN, but you're not saying how they ARE. Right, I'm only saying they can be shown otherwise because I haven't seen the movie yet. I wouldn't state my perception of vague, subjective speculation is fact, or that just because I haven't seen it that it must not and cannot exist. >Johannson and Berry didn't wear wigs at all. You're right, they just dyed and curled and tuft their hair for hours a day for months on set instead of just tucking their hair under wigs. http://badhairday.typepad.com/bad_hair_day/2006/05/xmen_evolution_.html
>They were already exiles and knew even before they were exiled that finding the Avatar was essentially a death sentence. Zuko didn't.
>>77248 I'm not entirely sure if he actually did before seeing that column of light. I thought a lot of Zuko's character in the first season was built around his swirling frustration with his multitude of (perceived) failures and increasingly unfaithful crew. While I don't think an argument worth making exists that Zuko cutting his topknot wasn't his consummate, emotional surrender, I still insist there are other ways of showing that than hair. But if the hair thing turns out to be absent from the movie, I will miss dearly the parallel during Azula's breakdown ;_:
>>77250 Zuko totally thought he could find the avatar. He says as much while still bandaged post-agni-kai in that book 3 flashback.
>Scary looking, but it also kinda reminds me of the Green Goblin's mask from the first Spider-Man movie. Yeah, I thought so too and I think I might know why it does. My cousin is a conceptual artist and he worked on both Spider-Man and this. Iirc, he was actually the guy that made the decision for the webbing on Spidey's costume to be raised. There was a design in his gallery that looked nearly identical to this Blue Spirit mask but he must have taken it down. I wish I could have told him the Blue Spirit wasn't supposed to be an oni.
>>77272 Well, if the Fire Nation was supposed to be Japan/Japan-esque, why wouldn't the mask worn by the fire nation guy while he attacks fire nation guys be based in fire nation guy myth?
>>77281 Again, Fire Nation isn't Japan/Japan-esque, it's Tang Dynasty China. Also, the Blue Spirit mask was from the mainland Earth Kingdom, which was various parts of China, Korea, Vietnam and others (Ba Sing Se was specifcically Qing Dynasty, I think.) It was specifically stated to be based off a wizard's mask from traditional Chinese theater, not an Oni form Japanese mythology.
>>77212 So I'm looking very closely at the Avatar statues in this pic. It seems each is holding a disc with the proper elemental symbol on it. Then I noticed that that the statue right behind Roku is a man with an Earth Kingdom symbol... A man. Not a woman. That's right, Kyoshi is now a man. Please rage accordingly.
>>77284 I guess this means the Kyoshi warriors are descendants of his daughters. Or maybe of his harem.
>>77282 In that case it also looks similar to a Japanese Noh mask.
>>77284To be fair, the show didn't have a Kyoshi statue in the air temple either. They apparently hadn't designed her yet and early season 1 was kinda chaotic in terms of ironing out details. On the other hand, by now they should have known better.>>77286If that's true, and you're not just making things up, then it's just a coincidence. What little I've seen of noh masks don't really look like this mask here, but this is a moot point since they said that with exception to it's color, the Blue Spirit mask's design was copied verbatim from a real Chinese mask.
>>77219 That is NOT the Blue Spirit. I refuse to acknowledge it as such. They might as well call it the Blue Ogre or something. What is it with M. Night's crusade against smiles, anyway?
>>77304 Smiling isn't srs bsns
>>77284 you're right, the statue which should be Avatar Yangchen looks like a man too
>>77284 It's kind of hard to tell by looking at that picture.
>>77310 It's not THAT hard to see the gender of the statues. However it could be a matter of what angle the statues are supposed to be viewed at. Perhaps Kyoshi, Kuruk and Yang Chen are to Roku's left. Or M. Night fail-o-matic strikes again!
And another thing, even though this is a small sampling of the Avatar statues (I'm sure the others are CGI) they all look miscelaneously Asian. One of the Air Nomads does seem to be wearing Tibetan Buddhist style robes, but the Water Tribesman don't look particularly Inuit. I know I know, why am I shocked? At this point I want to sneak into this film for the express purpose of taking it apart piece by piece.
>>77310 Not really, the Earth Kingdom Avatar seems kinda more heavyset, the Water Tribe one seems kinda feminine, and the Air Nomad looks like a man. The Fire Nation Avatar before that definitely looks like a woman, but we only saw him very briefly when Roku was explaining the Avatar state, and the Earth Kingdom one before that looks more like Kyoshi than the on where Kyoshi's supposed to be. I doubt they're to the left of Roku's statue because that would have been where Aang's statue would have gone, isn't it?
>>77313 I was talking about the clothing, not the individuals. All the clothing looks the same. In the show the statues may have been out of order but you could tell Water Tribe from Air Nomad from Fire Nation from Earth Kingdom. These just look like a mish-mash of Asian, or whatever the hell they're going for with this disaster of a film.
>>77314 I was responding to the guy who said it was kinda hard to tell the gender of the statues, I just happened to post right after you did. I think I see what you mean about the statues' clothes, too.
>>77315 Its okay Sharky, I still love you.
>>77312 >I doubt they're to the left of Roku's statue because that would have been where Aang's statue would have gone, isn't it? Perhaps they are on a conveyor.
Just reminding you of Soak-uh.
>>77431 UNF
>>77435 No. Just...no.
>>77431 >my face when Zoolander tried to be Sokka and failed in embarrassing fashion near me
>>77436 Sorry Anon, Jackson Rathbone is a delicious mofo, and even this movie can't change my mind
Looking at the Kyoshi warriors make-up, I wonder how Azula and her friends will manage to enter in Ba Sing Se...
>>77451 They will sleep their way in
>>77452 Sleep their way into the Kyoshi Warriors? I'm okay with that.
>>77455Ty Lee: Been there, done that! Azula doesn't sleep her way into anything. She has Ty Lee paralyze the Kyoshi Warriors, then she takes their clothes and has her way with them. And then as an AFTERTHOUGHT, she's like "Oh hey, free clothes. I just got this brilliant idea, girls."
>>77465 Truth.
I don't know if this hypothesis for racebending has been considered before. If they had the bad guys in the movie resembling a Chinese army, attacking good guys who look likeTibetan monks, wouldn't that be a sure way to have the film banned in China therefore missing the profit from Chinese ticket sales?
>>77511It's plausible, I admit. With the right tweaking, the show is basically "Dalai Lama: The Last Tibetan" with magic kung fu. But I gotta wonder a few things, if that was the actual, honest, decision, would it have hurt the production to say so? Would it honestly been enough, given the source material, and that they still seem to have the almost fleeting pretense of a reincarnated monk chased by a hyper-nationalistic rising industrial superpower with the color Red as it's emblem? (Moot point if he's just a "chosen one," I suppose.)Also, is this movie being released in China? (For that matter, was the original show?)
>>77514 I've seen Chinese fansubs - does that count? I would LOVE to see a Chinese dub of the TV series.
What monster have I created?!
>>77642 That just looks like regular Katara with awkward face shading. D:
>>77642 she looks like a babby
Book tie-ins point towards no Koh or Koizilla. Fucking hell...
Oh, hell no. This just looks awkward.
>>77663 Book tie-ins are frequently inaccurate, and based off of older drafts of the script. Not saying I wouldn't put it past Shamababa to take them out, just saying.
>>77685 At the same time, to depend on that isn't good, as I remember the Zutarians trying to claim similar things when the Sozin's Comet novelization came out early and revealed a Kataang ending (they tried to say that maybe the kids would get their "kiddy" ending in the book while the TV show's ending would be a mature ending for mature viewers such as themselves).
>>77663 Unless there was a major and costly rewrite and reshoot late in the game, there's definitely no Koizilla. The big wave in the trailers is the extent of the climax. Aang bends a huge wave of water, scares the shit out of the Fire Nation fleet, and the day is saved.
>>77665 Dang, Gran Gran cleans up nice
>>77687 Which is really underwhelming compared to having a giant MIyazaki inspired water beast attacking people. And an example of the trailers showing too much.
WHAT DID I JUST WATCH
>>77717 Stupid link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYFcmiTBaGA
>>77718 WHY For you Zhao fans, remember all those things he took initiative on in the series? They're now all Ozai's orders. Looks like the only thing he did on his own was finding the Spirit Library and FISHPUNCHING. "WE R GODZ NAO FRNATION PWNZ0RZ U!" What else? Ozai orders Zhao to kill his son? What the flying fuck? Yeah, I'm sure he'll really welcome Zuko back with open arms in the third movie...hahaha, third movie. No Koizilla. ;_; Instead, Zhao gets pwned by vengeful Waterbenders and Aang just bends a giant wave. Whee. The fail, it burns!
>>77719 Hmm, looks like embedding won't work if I add an image. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipBFT9INaAM
>>77719 > all those things he took initiative on in the series? They're now all Ozai's orders. >Looks like the only thing he did on his own was finding the Spirit Library and FISHPUNCHING. ...As opposed to...? What else did he do on his own accord?
>>77725 Well, the invasion force was his idea, killing the moon spirit was his idea, hiring pirates/mercernaries to assisnate Zuko and presumably Iroh, since he didn't know he wouldn't be on the ship, and he was the one who decided to take over Zuko's mission to find the Avatar and capture him for himself. If I'm reading the wording correctly, and this is indeed true, half, or more than half, of the shit Zhao did on his own is now a direct order from Ozai. ...Wait, why is Ozai trying to kill Zuko? If he wanted him dead, why didn't he just do it when he banished him? For that matter, even after the first season, his orders were to capture him alive, and going by his words in Season 3, banishment was standard, but with Zuko being a full blown traitor, then he had a valid reason to order him dead, but not before.
>>77726 >invasion force >killing moon spirit The invasion of the NWT sounds like it still is his idea, or at least the product of his initiative. He tells Ozai that the Avatar is at the NWT being trained, so Ozai says to invade. That's pretty much what happened in the show. Killing the moon spirit is a wildcard. Not sure where they're going with this "we don't need Gods, we are Gods" thing but I can't say I'm not interested.
>>77728 >He tells Ozai that the Avatar is at the NWT being trained, so Ozai says to invade. That's pretty much what happened in the show. The key difference being that Zhao was the one who proposed it, he was the one promoted to Admiral and the one who said "We will need a *massive* invasion force." In the show, we never see him defer to the Fire Lord. It depends on the movie and possibly the wording of the post, but it sounded like both this and the Moon spirit idea were Ozai's. >Killing the moon spirit is a wildcard. Not sure where they're going with this "we don't need Gods, we are Gods" thing but I can't say I'm not interested. Not sure, either, but it's kinda hammy, really. There aren't gods in Avatar, the word isn't even uttered once. Also, it's not really a wildcard. Zhao had been the one who found the library and he himself poured through the archives and scrolls to find a way to bring down the Northern Water Tribe. Capturing it was a part of his strategy from the start. The wildcard was *killing* it, that was something Zhao decided last minute.
You know something? We shouldn't even be SEEING Ozai in this film at all. Part of his mystique as the show's main villain was that we didn't actually get to see him until season three. That alone did a lot to build up the character. I for one developed a theory that he'd also been scarred by his father Azulon for suggesting that he take over Iroh's birthright as next in line for the throne (in addition to killing Zuko), just like he had scarred Zuko. Also him ordering Zuko's banishment instead of his death was sort of a "you're not worth the effort to kill" statement. But now in the movie he wants him dead? This makes no sense. It also makes no sense that Takeshi Kaneshiro isn't playing him in the movie.
>>77734 Shyamalan and Curtis both equate Ozai to the Darth Vader of the movie. Which is okay, except the show Ozai was more like Palpatine than anyone else. (Also, we could probably use a new thread. This is almost 1000 posts and loads horrendously slow.)
plotbending fails as hard as canonbending
