That they need to familiarize themselves with shitty Japanese fanart, shitty Japanese published art, and all of the shortcuts and tricks actual manga-ka use.

If anybody ever meets somebody like that, hit 'em with this:

There are some real turds up on Pixiv every now and again.

Some manga just straight up looks awful, published or no:

The first few volumes of Hellsing (though he got way better by the end) Attack on Titan, a whole lot of yaoi, I could go on.

Gantz looks good thanks to it's team (yes, team) of artists but abuses the hell out of 3D models and Photoshop filters (oh god, the color chapter looked like utter shit.)

After looking at how GANTZ is made, guess it seems I've misunderstood how you use 3D model stuff. I thought you were to just use it to make a rough pose with similar anatomy to match the character you're drawing and use it as a reference for perspective and the basic anatomy, similar to how you would use a photograph... not something you just draw on top of.

Anyway, OP, in answer to your question, I think they are just misguided. Yes, there are good Japanese artists, but through the ages and today there are many exceptional western artists (obviously). Japanese artists just tend to follow a general style that plays up on immediate appeal (the eyes, body shapes, etc), and while obviously there are a multitude of manga styles, Japanese youths tend to grow up copying manga panels and anime stills, so they grow up learning those methods. The people who think Japanese artists are superior are probably just blinded by the immediate appeal of the anime shortcuts (and the stylish setting in which it is used) and overlook the appeal of popular western styles (which they may have categorized as kid's stuff, which too often seems to be used by the edgy as a descriptor for a large potion of western art).

I look at it on an individual basis. I can't say one country is overwhelmingly better than any other, and all countries run the full spectrum of professional artists, everywhere from mindblowingly good to "appeals to many, but doesn't give a fuck about anatomy and sameface and etc."

Although very successful, crappy artists make me wonder if you even have to be ridiculously good to be an artist, or if you just have to be good enough to impress people who don't draw at all.

>crappy artists make me wonder if you even have to be ridiculously good to be an artist, or if you just have to be good enough to impress people who don't draw at all.

Honestly, yeah, good enough to impress people who can't draw at all is actually worth something. I don't know about other countries, but in the US at least, there is minimal required drawing education in the public school system so many adults have the drawing skills of a young child. From what I have surmised, drawing is all to often a skill admired by many (HOW PRETTY), truly respected by few (GET A REAL JOB), and placed in the realm of "talent" by most (SUCH A GOOD DRAWING, YOU ARE SO TALENTED).

>>43115
I live in the U.S., and yeah, that seems to be apt.

I think there is some amount of "talent" in there-- it won't get you far unless you practice a lot, but I think a lot of people who don't draw just never had the desire to. Ideas don't come easy to them, or they never had the desire to draw. Although there's also a lot of people who weren't automatically good at it and just gave up, too.

>>43111
Hate.
Hatred.

Oh god they do such harm to every god damn western artist ever and the whole god damn industry I just wish they'd STOP aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Thing is, artist opinions about other artist art qulity i irelevant. Artist customers are never artists, and their liking of art is purely based on personal sensibility.
Lots of people like Liefeld qrt, or XKCD or AT not because it's technically good, but because it reaches their sensibility.
Ranting about professionals are bad when they sell millions is stupid and really reeks of jealousy more than anything.
Art is about comunication, if you manage to comunicate with the masses, you are good, no matter the skill level involved.

>>43118
XKCD to me isn't really about the art, it's about the writing. The creator knows they can't draw, but the writing is funny and makes up for it.

Let them have their opinion and go about drawing what you want? Maybe they'll grow out of it, maybe they won't. You shouldn't let people's opinions that aren't related to you affect you or give them the time of day.

>>43112
Kids can't really recognise when art is on the bad side of mediocre though. I remember idolising a few artists when I was thirteen. After forgetting about them for like 8 years and then rediscovering them, I realised that not only have they not gotten any better (if they are still drawing) but that they were absolutely terrible to begin with. And I used to think Hellsing volume 1 looked pretty damn good.

Pixiv turds probably don't look like turds to the average weeb. They just have to grow up and develop taste on their own (or they don't), you can't educate them into liking stuff.

Wait are we talking about the artists themselves or the people that glorify anything out of japan whilst crossing out anything from NOT!JAPAN as stupid cartoony and nowhere near as good as anything japanese cos I've seen a shitload of the latter and seriously I really think theyre damaging to a creative industry I mean fuck

>>43137
The second thing.

on average I see more good japanese artist than westerns. Probably comes from the fact that Japanese comunities tends to be very critical and merciless with their artists, while DA and Tumblr just thanks you and admire you for shitty stick figures. So in the end West artists don't need efforts to get recognition, while in Japan you really need to not only put efforts but actually have talent on top of it to stay in the scene.

Not really, average pixiv artist is about the level of average dA artist. We just don't see them as much because they usually gets filtered out.

>>43142
It's like how people tend to give the past more credit than it deserves in terms of how good the media output is. People look at certain eras and say "The cartoons were better X years ago" or "The games were better on system Y," but they've completely forgotten the utterly mediocre shit that made up the majority of it.

Sturgeon's Law is a universal constant. More people need to realize it.

>>43141
Lets also not forget that you could consider nearly the whole of Japan either "rich" or "upper middle class" in american standards - so overall more people can afford to get into art and consume media than we can over here, regardless of population or density.

What really irks me are those "You can't like Disney because The Lion King and Atlantis: The Lost Empire are directly ripped off of Kimba: The White Lion and Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water" people.

Mostly weeaboos who ironically have never watched Kimba or Nadia.

I don't really see how weeaboos are ruining the industry? Is it because they're not buying comics that they aren't interested in? Is it because they want to their shit published outside of america? I feel like claiming weebs are killing the western comics industry is like saying skinny people are killing the plus-sized clothing industry.

>>43168
People always try to look to outsiders when they want to blame someone for when something in their subculture goes sour. Weeaboos read comics, but they're the "wrong sort of comics," so it's easy to blame them when comics do things they don't want them to do. If they didn't blame them, they might actually have to look at their own actions and figure out if they're the problem.

>>43168
Because they're a greater audience worldwide than comic book and western animation fans.
In the US, comics have a lot of strength. But outside, its almost monopolized by weebs.

>>43172
and comics aren't that much the problem as much as not genuinely judging the stories or products based on quality as much as solely location or culture.
Like I said, the japanese audience are in the majority in the grand scale of things. Its them not giving equal opportunity to other national products thats the harm.
And again, might not be the case in the US. But I've personally seen, first hand, how different this is in other places.

This issue isn't that weebs aren't buying things they aren't interested in, its that they aren't interested in Western art. The question is whether there's a valid reason for liking Japanese art more, which, to be honest, I dont think there is. Some people think that western art looks more childish than Japanese, but I'd say that a lot of Japanese art looks a lot more childish than, say, Disney movies. Far more childish than the average DC graphic novel.

I'd say a lot of it is purely cultural. It's "cool" to like anime and manga styles here in America (or, well, there's a large subculture that believes so), but generally nerdy or lame to watch cartoons or read comics past the age of 12 (because they are mostly geared towards children, and people like to generalize). Art talent doesn't really play a role in that.

I think part of it is because it's foreign, and foreign = always smarter to some people. I don't have anything against anime, or people who prefer non-American culture, but it really annoys me when people say their own country can never come up with anything good, or will defend a foreign series or film as being "better" over a Western one, only to admit they've never seen either.

It is a matter of taste, I agree-- as well as the belief that no, people who would never buy American comics still aren't going to buy them if nothing's imported to the US. Although that may be partially because some still think all American comics are superhero comics (which isn't true).

>>43177

>cool to like anime and manga
Are you joking or??? Last I checked I got made fun of all the time for liking anime/manga. It's definitely considered cooler to like comics, at least now that there are so many popular comic book movies.

Your other point is just that weebs have an opinion on art, which ???? It's art. Opinions are def things and everyone has them. I don't see the point in caring if weebs like western comic art or not. There are plenty of western comic fans that refuse to read manga so it happens on both ends. There will always be biased people, and I don't really see the point in complaining about preferences.

Additionally, manga has a lot of things that the western market doesn't have, namely MARKET FOR FEMALE-ORIENTED COMICS AND THERE ARE 1000s OF TITLES TO CHOOSE FROM. The only manga I still read are my guilty pleasure romance manga. Even the guys' romance manga is great.

People have preferences, some of those preferences don't exist in the western comic industry, it happens.

please don't use "western comics industry" to refer to capes. The USA market is actually a really tiny, irelevant partof the western market, dominated by European publishers. I'm pretty sure even south American bootlegs pulls of better figures than Marvel and DC these days. They aren't the industry. Merely the industry in the US

>>43190
South American dude here. No, we like Marvel and DC. Even when those are shitty (looking at you, Marvel NOW! and Nu52 DC), it's probably the best-selling western comics, along with maybe one or two national stuff. No, I don't think european stuff is all that much popular here.

>>43191
SouthAmfag seconding this, The >>43190 Anon is a hipster.

I think >>43190 is correct in that not all Western comics are capes, and all capes are not by Western comic book creators.

I do think America makes romance comics, too.

>>43189
Hmh!
Well, see, of COURSE western comics have huge-ass fucking problems concerning content and audience.

Comics fer Goyls are a thing that's sorely missing from the western mainstream. And though I don't think its right to put the blame solely on weebs (though weebs meaning people who are exclusively anime fans and -detractors- from everything thats not japanese) they are a factor.

Considering the greenlighting and financing process in the west, change in media has to go slowly. Sure. No radicalism here, sadly 'nuff. BUT most times the big 2 try and branch out to audiences that read other kinds of content (not saying women here. I personally like romance and drama stuffs) the audience already has that fulfilled AND decides not to check out anything involving american comics.
Might be with reason! But the mere fact that people won't check out that kind of thing based on geography is a real fuckin' problem.
They cut the line due to low sales and decide to STICK with the muscles and skintight suits because its what's been selling and considering the state of the industry, its risky to move elsewhere.
...
...I mean Spiderman Loves Mary Jane was really really fucking good. I'd like to think some more manga-oriented people gave it a chance. But so far only heard of the usual audience liking it. I dunno about that, frankly.

Sigh
Honestly its a big fuckin thing with so many sides it's not gonna be a simple discussion on the matter, sadly.
Not online at least.

>still using western = USA = cape

no. educate yourself. Look at so;e selling figures outside of the US.

>>43200
Its the hollywood of comic books.
Of course there's stuff elsewhere in the world and the industry.
But its whats there and its what people think and see.

>What is /draw/'s opinion on the people who thinks japanese artists are better than western artists?
A statement that makes about as much sense as "French artists are better than Canadian artists". There's such a staggering variance in artistic styles just within each country that geographic origin is meaningless.

>>43206
But difference means something to a certain kind of people, those people are called weeaboos.

Even within one country, there's not one universal drawing style.

Dumb fucks, just like the people who think the opposite.

Maybe the question would be better phrased as
>X artists are universally better than Y artists.
Since that's what's happening.

people who still don't like both?

>>43231
I don't know much about artists who are neither from America/England or Japan. I don't know why comic books and animation from countries outside of those don't often get ported to the U.S., I wish I could read them more and gain a perspective on common themes in those works.

>>43260
How about starting here
http://lcvtranslations.blogspot.mx/
Its all quality stuff.

My problem with Japanese artists is that like 95% of them draw exactly the same way. Every now and then though you'll find someone who does their own thing though.

And it will be good.

>>43292
You can say that for Western style artists, too, though.

They can get very annoying yes, I agree, but they are spoiled by the amount of Japanese art available to them. Western art rarely gets the same amount of time in the limelight, it's quite depressing.

Wow, I have been in Pixiv and i see a lot of artist who draw like us, in fact a shitload, but there is also, the ones who are more popular over all, that do some shit, I mean the linework they do is so tiny, like hair thin tiny and the linework color mixes and blends whit the over all color making it look more "alive" i dont know what kind of tootls are using or if they use mini pencils whit their micro hands, I bet ehats why they dont play FPS on PC.