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  • 08/21/12 - Poll ended; /cod/ split off as a new board from /pco/.

File 139710300461.png - (234.92KB , 313x461 , hiby.png )
117010 No. 117010
Back when this show was a thing, my response to the relationship arcs and will they/won't they stuff was to just go 'who gives a crap'. I stayed out of the shipping wars. However, a few weeks ago I read this back to back, and Jesus Christ. Wow.

I have a personal belief that you can make a good story out of anything, and I guess this is as close to blasphemy as I can imagine as a non-religious individual. I am so goddamn furious at the shlock I just read, that I can't allow this to not be challenged with an attempt to create some sort of written counter to it. I don't mean a dissection, other people have made autopsies of this thing. I mean I need to balance the spirits of fanfiction and try, fucking try to make some sort of story that makes up for this.

In short, I want to write a version of the events of the Avatar series where,
1. Zuko and Katara are a couple by the end.
2. The story gets there in a way that isn't a hackneyed dime-store romance novel copy-pasting image miscarriage filled pile of what-the-fuck-am-I-reading like what I just read.

I'm not doing this for Zutarans, and I'm not doing this to make some sort of 'see? you could have totally done it in the series!' Just a quick glance-through of the show, and I'm pretty sure all of Book 3 would need to be redone. I'm doing this, because I can find no other way to expel my hate for what I just read. I have to do this to set right all the convictions I have as a writer of short stories on /co/.

If you guys can offer any advice, any sort of personal observations on what they do wrong and how to avoid it, I would very much appreciate it. I will do this journey alone if I have to, but I would like some help with this task, if you can offer it.
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>> No. 117011
Well, for starters, look at things like Crossroads of Destiny and The Southern Raiders rather than things like The Waterbending Scroll. IF romance is going to develop between the two of them, it needs to be because they bonded over their similarities, and over things they like and respect about each other. A "Sam/Diane" "I hate you but now I love you" romance is just going to be tedious as fuck. Put them in situations where they can share hardships together and grow as people together.

There has to be some sexual tension, too, to make it feel like more than just a close friendship--that part's the easiest part, honestly. Sexual tension can happen BY ACCIDENT for goodness sake. Look at that scene with Azula and Zuko in her bedroom where it came off like she was about to seduce him. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you need to make it sexy. In fact, if you're wanting to write something "respectable," I would avoid that--this is a children's cartoon show you're writing fanfic based on, and I would try to stick to the same level the show did. You can get away with light, implied stuff (c.f. Sokka and Suki), but I think it's just going to clash too much with the tone of the source material if you go any more explicitly intimate with their relationship than the show itself does. But there DOES have to be some small degree of attraction obvious between the two of them for it to feel like a romance arc.

Also, I'd advise not belaboring the point. There's something to be said for building tension before the climax, but don't try to make an epic, or pull a "will they or won't they" that takes long enough to strain the audience's patience. It can grow organically and take its time in getting there, but if the romance is the main draw, don't string the audience along longer than is necessary to position the characters where they need to be to make the payoff feel earned.
>> No. 117012
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117012
Katara has had other people she's been interested in besides Aang, like Jet. This wasn't because he was attractive, though that was there, but Jet represented something Katara wanted. Aang was sort of a personification of that sense of hope, and actively being involved with the world. All of Gran Gran's stories were now real, and she could leave the safety of being this passive actor and start saving the world.

Jet however, explored that side of loss and revenge that had been stewing in the back of Katara's mind for a while. Jet and Zuko do share a lot of elements too, lost family, issue with the fire nation, actively working to set things right, just on different sides of the coin. As >>117011 said, the bonding of the similarities was what drew her, but the betrayal was what pushed her away. If you place Zuko in a situation where he won't betray her, or is even a larger part of the group earlier, then that exploration of her need to be an active fighter, to work for revenge and getting family ties in order again, will feel more comfortable to her.

The Southern Raiders was sort of a cathartic release from all this time of stamping down all those needs to be a vengeful indivdual, and it had shown a strain on her. Katara's growing less maternal and more actively bitter and upset with the Fire Nation, and not just because of what it does, but how it represents what she lost. But she's wedged against taking that step and getting her revenge or actively working against the Fire Nation, because she needs to train and help Aang, and any chance to take action gets repelled. By the Southern Raiders, she's so pent up and ready for any closure, that she's bloodbending without a care and ready to murder people.

A relationship with Zuko might let her explore that drive to be vengeful in reverse. It feels more comfortable, and her actions could get her more immediate results than the path she normally takes. Then later, those actions start to reverberate back on her, maybe she's in a situation where it only makes things worse, or her desire to fight isn't what's needed, and by the time she comes to The Southern Raiders, Aang's helped her realize that she wasn't actually looking for revenge, but a way to feel strong and make up for that past.

In short, Katara's character arc is just placed in reverse and that builds a relationship with Zuko over time.
>> No. 117018
I think what everyone forgets with Zutara is Zuko's motivation. Relationship seemed to get forced on him anyway, but at least I remember something about childhood crushes with Mai. Katara's not only just 'some girl', she's the antithesis of his motivation to get right with the Fire Nation.
>> No. 117020
>>117018
That's true, but it's partially covered by the whole "Let them share hardships and grow as people together." If they're forced into Enemy Mine situations fairly frequently (without it becoming a contrived coincidence), it's human nature to develop more of an attachment to someone you have spent a lot of time with and shared important life moments with recently rather than to an organization to which you owe your loyalties but which is far away and to which your memories are less recent. Zuko's got his honor, so it would take something major, but if he comes to respect the gAang in general and Katara in specific, and sees the Fire Nation behaving dishonorably, he's going to have a very strong justification for siding with the other side (the gAang in this hypothetical) instead--indeed, we saw this in canon with the Blue Spirit, Zuko Alone, and to a certain extent in The Chase.

Zuko's personal sense of honor and fair play comes before his loyalty to the Fire Nation, but only barely. He DOES struggle with this sometimes (Crossroads of Destiny), so it's fair to have him waver in certain circumstances, but the key to having Zuko betray the Fire Nation without breaking character is to arrange things so it is the more honorable choice.

So send more dishonorable Fire Nation villains at the heroes--we know they exist, and aren't INCREDIBLY rare, even if they don't account for the majority of the Fire Nation's soldiers. If Zuko finds himself face to face with corruption in the Fire Nation Armies often enough, he's going to have a deep desire to reform things, and probably a significant amount of disillusionment with his father's ability to lead a nation earlier than he did in ATLA.

Another good trick would be to arrange things so the gAang gets in good with Iroh--one thought that occurs to me is that episode where Iroh drinks the tea that turns out to be poison. Have it actually turn out to BE poison, and have Zuko in a race to find someone who can help, run across Katara and have her heal him. It would be entirely in character for Katara to help Iroh in that situation, and entirely in character for Zuko to feel indebted to her for doing so--more than he would for her healing him, in fact. Even if he doesn't realize it consciously.
>> No. 117021
>>117020
Or, remember when Iroh got hit by Azula in The Chase? What if Zuko hadn't chased off Katara there, and she healed him? Toph knows Iroh from the earlier chat, but hasn't got the backstory of him trying to shoot the Gaang out of the sky. So Iroh is trying to serve everyone tea in that little hut in Bitter Work, but everyone's on edge. Zuko's got his goal right in front of him and can't do anything, Katara Sokka and Aang are wondering if this is a trick, and Toph just can't stand feeling everyone's rapid heartbeats racing through the floorboards and banging around in her head like a bunch of jackhammers.
>> No. 117028
It doesn't matter, /co/ would hate it regardless.
>> No. 117029
>>117028
If people avoided doing things because /co/ will hate it, no one would ever do anything. /co/, like the rest of 4chan, hates everything.
>> No. 117030
Although there are apparently some good Zutaran stories out there, the majority of them seems to be kind of terrible, as well as some of the prefered canon I've seen some Zutaran's attempt to transplant onto Legend of Korra.

Such as the idea that Tenzin, and his siblings are actually Zuko's kids, and that Katara was secretly cheating on Aang for decades with one of his best friends.

I mean, really? You're so eager to justify your ship that turning both characters involved into horrible, horrible people is the best means to do it?
>> No. 117032
>>117030
To be fair to the Zutarans in that instant, most shippers seem to have come to the conclusion that Zuko is a horrible, horrible person.

Making Zuko an adulterer seems to be a fairly standard way of hooking him up with someone else, presumably under the premised that it leads to political drama, and because Zuko's an inherently traitorous dick.
>> No. 117033
>>117030
Before the series was over, I wanted it to end with neither of the ships confirmed. Just leave it open-ended. And when Korra rolls around, always dance around the issue like Zuko says his wife couldn't meet Korra because she's performing some Water Tribe ritual, but at the same time Tenzin's mom was a waterbender too and looking in lineage trees someone's got their thumb over Aang's wife. Just tease it constantly, and never relent until the last when it's revealed Katara married Haru
>> No. 117034
>>117010
The best way to do this would be to find another love interest for Aang. Perhaps you could change the story so that some Air Nomads survived and Aang tries to track down their descendants. Once he finds a female Air Nomad Aang begins a relationship with her because if they don't have children his people will die out.

For an surviving Air Nomads to work you'll need to hint at this in book 1, have them appear in book 2, and either have the Air Nomad join Aang in book 3 or have Aang visit her at the end of book 3.

You'll also need to end the relationship between Mai and Zuko. Regarding Mai you could have Azula kill her for some reason or change her background so her parents have already married her to someone else for political reasons. If you choose the former this will create a large rift between Zuko and Azula, though Katara could start a relationship with Zuko by comforting him. In the case of the latter the relationship will start more slowly but Zuko won't hate Azula as much.

For this to work perhaps Zuko could side with Aang at the end of book 2 rather than Azula. This would give Zuko all of book 3 to get close to Katara.
>> No. 117035
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117035
>>117034
>killing Mai
>air nomads are alive
That's a lot to change to satiate Aang's 'got a girl at the end' bit, and gets too close to HIBY stuff. Maybe Aang just doesn't have a girl at the end. I mean, does he really need one? The arc of not having his affections returned could still be there, but the loss of his people seemed cleansed by finding new love and family with people like Katara, and in fact it was his whole reason he didn't do the Chakra cleansing until the right time.

A world where Katara doesn't return his affections, or he starts imagining it's like that, could make Aang retreat at first, or get confrontational, ironically making his fears a reality and building a wall between his family. He's scared of losing new connections that replace what he lost, but the lesson could be reflective of why he was so intent on keeping them: he was afraid of losing them too. His chakra teachings could instead be that love is more than just intimacy, and his family is bigger than a girl he fancies. He hasn't lost his family, he just is finding a place in a growing one, one that cares about him the same way.

Of course, sorting out the chakras alone also meant that the Fire Nation had no real oppositional fight when they take Ba Sing Se, since Aang didn't show up in the middle and get people out when they needed to. Ironically, learning to be a better Avatar, also meant that he wasn't able to be the Avatar when he needed to be. So all the gang gets split into various groups with Aang traveling alone, Zuko back in the Fire Nation, and maybe Toph, Sokka, and the others are working with the Black Sun plan. This could also be a chance to stick Katara with Zuko to act as a secondary moral compass and have all those juicy character interactions like before, maybe after Katara's help with Iroh Zuko repayed her by making it so she's a guest of the Fire Nation. This gives us more time for the characters to act together, deal with their respective arcs more, and so on. Meanwhile, Aang's lessons of abandoning earthly attachments and just being the Avatar has him going solo mission Aang, trying to be the Avatar he is 'supposed' to be, though uncomfortable with that disconnect.

His arc is learning that despite all of this training, he's still Aang first, and it ties into the divide between his duty and what he feels is right individually. He has to learn to balance being the beacon he needs, and being himself. He leaned to the latter with a friend network, but alone Aang would have a longer time learning this, until he realizes how much he needs his team and family. His journey is to not retreat from that family, despite not getting his feelings reciprocated, despite what the Guru taught him, because in the end he has to be himself, and who he is is still Aang first. I mean, it is the Legend of AANG, not the Avatar.

Plus, you know, he's the avatar, he's got other options down the road. Save the world, then worry about pussy.
>> No. 117037
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117037
>>117035
As for the Mai thing, well from what I remember, their relationship started in Ba Sing Se after a date, so just Katara wedged in there could be enough to throw cold water on that idea. Actually, the interactions with Katara now stuck with Azula Ty Lee, and Mai in the mix would be enough fun in itself. Like Mean Girls but with Bending.

Ty Lee would probably think it was great, just having new friends and asking her what Sokka is like, does he have a girlfriend, feeling more motivated to find him and make him feel better when he finds out he did and Zhao killed her by proxy. Mai's dealing with her as sort of a mix of a threat and a nuisance, and when Zuko bails on the Fire Nation with her, she's probably got all those 'she's tempting him' vibes spring back up. So her attempts to rescue him at the Boiling Rock are even more cynical, like 'I guess I'm stupid enough to help him get back to that Water Tribe skank.'

Azula and Katara would be the best though. She's sort of in a political grey area, waiting for her to mess up so she can be locked away, or just teasing Zuko about his 'pet', trying to provoke responses. She's always playing with everyone's emotions, poking and prodding and seeing what happens, imagining herself as a chessmaster, when it's really just her trying to dominate the situation. Maybe expose a plot or get them to openly accept her as their better, just anything, and when they leave suddenly, it's a phyrric victory because she didn't get to be there, play an active role in it. It just happens again, and so it's even more a motivation to smoke out her brother. That final battle between her Zuko and Katara has even more of a personal sting because its those two she wasn't able to torment properly now walking up fully together and mocking her with their presence.
>> No. 117039
>>117035
>Of course, sorting out the chakras alone also meant that the Fire Nation had no real oppositional fight when they take Ba Sing Se, since Aang didn't show up in the middle and get people out when they needed to. Ironically, learning to be a better Avatar, also meant that he wasn't able to be the Avatar when he needed to be.
Then, why doesn't he just liberate Ba Sing Se afterwards? He's full Avatar State mode there, he could whoop the whole thing.
>> No. 117040
>>117039
Maybe he's still not good at it, or the Ba Sing Se blockade's too powerful for one reason or another. I do see your point though, that might be a problem.
>> No. 117049
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117049
I think I've got a basic framework to go with now. Should I post it, or just start writing and then show it to you when I'm done?
>> No. 117106
>>117049
Dunno about the rest of these folks, but I can wait.
>> No. 117111
>>117106
Okay then, I'll write a little and let you see.
Actually the series is really tightly knit in the first two seasons. Getting the themes I want to work require rewriting more than you usually would think. It really makes you appreciate how stuff fit together in the past, just the little things and all.


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